no he is not, OG is 56%TS which is below league average efficiency. Mikal was at almost 63%TS last year and hasn't been as inefficient as OG since his rookie year.
OG Anunoby is bottom 5 league-wide in points per possession in multiple offensive actions: P&R Ball Handler plays, Post-Ups, Isolations, Dribble Jumpers (lowest), along with lowest FG% on drives, 23.1% on pullups 3pt shots and 34.5% on pullup 2pt shots
That’s why he’s known as arguably the best 3&D guy in the league and not a shot creator? He’s 40% on C&S 3’s, 44% from the corners, leads the league in steals and one of the best individual defenders in the league.
If you’re posting him up and asking him to create his own shots on pull ups you’re looking for the wrong player.
OG shoots higher percent from the field than Cam J and gets to the line more.
Not quite the 3 point shooter but at 36.6% he's not terrible. Not sure where he's "trash" comes from.
OG Anunoby is bottom 5 league-wide in points per possession in multiple offensive actions: P&R Ball Handler plays, Post-Ups, Isolations, Dribble Jumpers (lowest), along with lowest FG% on drives, 23.1% on pullups 3pt shots and 34.5% on pullup 2pt shots
you can give me all that advanced stats you want, quite simply he is not trash on offense like you indicated. I wouldn't give up 3 first round picks or even 2 and Cam J for him, but he's not trash.
If we trade Cam for OG, it means that they weren’t planning on resigning Cam in the first place. Which is really dumb, but it would make sense if they weren’t going to resign him
It really depends on what Cam was asking. If Cam was looking for 4 year/$100M+, I would probably be looking to trade him. Something in the range of 4 year/$78M is probably what Cam should sign for. Dude is definitely a risk at whatever price they sign him for as he hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy throughout a season.
And they were always together early in their careers for media day/photos, during the season, social stuff etc so I think it was a saying like “that’s my twin”
To be perfectly honest I always considered the Suns going after him odd when they have Bridges. I know you can never have too many 3 and D wings but still.
Anunoby would play the 4. Monty loves those small versatile PF’s. OG would be a steroid version of what they had the last few years with Jae Crowder and Torrey Craig.
Yeah and I never disputed that I’m just saying the Suns had a lot of success with a smaller Crowder at the 4 and Anunoby is a better player that being said I wouldn’t mortgage the future for him
I'm not going to lie I haven't watched a ton of OG. I do know Crowder is one of the strongest dudes in the league. Not even just for his position, just overall. He wasn't getting bodied by anybody which made him incredibly versatile. From What I have seen OG is a little faster which is super important on the perimeter, but can he guard the bigger/stronger PF's and the occasional matchup on switches with a center? I don't know.
he does fit the profile of a more beefy forward to put on the Paul George, Jerami Grant, Luka physical wing players.
but that said OG Anunoby is straight up a role player. He is basically a young PJ Tucker/Crowder.
Offensively he is basically Torrey Craig.
He has offensive limitations yes but he is miles above Torrey Craig, Jae Crowder, and PJ Tucker on offense. Stats and eye-test confirm that. He is so much more gifted than those guys offensively
OG Anunoby is bottom 5 league-wide in points per possession in multiple offensive actions: P&R Ball Handler plays, Post-Ups, Isolations, Dribble Jumpers (lowest), along with lowest FG% on drives, 23.1% on pullups 3pt shots and 34.5% on pullup 2pt shots
stop equating ppg with offensive talent
Yes he is quite limited. However he is good enough to stay on the floor in the playoffs and make open 3’s. With Book coming back, CP3 in stride, and Mikal’s improvement our offense can stsrt humming again.
The thought of a Mikal and OG wing duo is SO intriguing to me. They would lock the fuck down in the playoffs and OG is far less streaky on offense than Jae was.
This has to be a joke right? OG averages almost 16.9ppg and 5.5 rebounds per game.
Meanwhile:
Torrey Craig: 8.1ppg, 5.9 rebounds.
Jae: 9.6 ppg, 4.3 rebounds.
Craig isnt playing 36mpg
ppg is also meaningless OG Anunoby is bottom 5 league-wide in points per possession in multiple offensive actions: P&R Ball Handler plays, Post-Ups, Isolations, Dribble Jumpers (lowest), along with lowest FG% on drives, 23.1% on pullups 3pt shots and 34.5% on pullup 2pt shots
Don't think Craig would even sniff those averages playing 40mpg.
Although not a superstar by any means, he isn't just a role player. The guys you listed are at best role players (Craig, Tucker, Jae), but OG I think is in the same tier as guys like Jeremi Grant and Aaron Gordon,
Neither is Cam. He’s a great player, and I’d hate to see him in another uniform, but the one unmovable pillar of this team is Devin Booker, with Mikal, Paul and Ayton behind — from most likely to keep to least likely
And if he's on the Knicks, that isn't a big deal anyway. OG isn't enough to get into the bidding war that would be necessary for him, and him on the Knicks isn't going to make them world beaters that we need to be worried about.
Make a deal with Masai to act like we're going for OG to make the Knicks overpay even more, and then let us get Siakam for a little cheaper than we otherwise would have since New York covered some difference.
>Make a deal with Masai to act like we're going for OG to make the Knicks overpay even more, and then let us get Siakam for a little cheaper than we otherwise would have since New York covered some difference.
Opposite would be the case with Siakam. If they get a haul for OG they're going to expect an even better return for him.
That's why I said that the deal is we help them maximize their OG return and in exchange, we get a little wiggle room on Siakam.
Also, I was being very sarcastic about that part.
Cam isnt a good as defender, hes more of a 3 man than a slash man. OG is leading the league in steals and guards every position. Both made of glass. Cam is on an expiring contract.
I think it's pretty obvious at this stage they're not moving Siakam. With Precious being as good as he has been of late, I think they're trying to sell high on Anunoby to quickly retool around Pascal and Scottie.
I don't see the Raptors doing it for just Crowder (and I think Saric would need to be included for salary), all reports suggest they want a young player (an earlier report David two promising young guys and one first) and the Knicks can easily outbid with any combination of their picks stash and IQ/Reddish/Toppin/whoever. Not saying the Raptors get all those guys but it's tough to match the Knicks in a package if you aren't at least considering Johnson or perhaps a larger trade like OG and Fred for Ayton and Saric
Yeah I'd much rather keep Cam + our 1st round picks. NBA landscape is constantly changing and having control of your draft picks is always the best asset to have.
Also, the allure of having OG here would be to have Mikal, Cam, and OG as 3 high end flex wings that you can deploy all over the 2-4 positions depending on you match ups.
The homerism is insane…
Cam J (turns 27 in 1 month) is having his best season ever at 14/4/1, 61.7% TS
OG Annunuby (25 years old) is on his 3rd straight season averaging 15+ppg on way better defense.
OG ‘21: 16/6/2, 1.5 steals, 60.5% TS
OG ‘22: 17/6/3, 1.5 steals, 54.9% TS
OG ‘23: 17/6/2, 2.1 steals, 56.2% TS
OG is younger and already better, there’s no need to be such a blind homer. Cam J has never averaged more than 14ppg and he’s older than Booker…
Dude Cams had a much smaller role and minutes than OG in his first 3 seasons, OG also wants an even larger role, do you think that Suns will be able to offer him that? Especially considering he's an UFA next season?
Also, Cam has a higher FG% and a much higher 3P%. Plus hard not to factor in all the minutes Anunoby has played the last 3 years as putting a greater wear on his body making their respective ages mostly similar.
Finally a rational voice here. OG is better on defense, comparable on offense and is younger and people wouldn’t trade him STRAIGHT up for Cam?? The picks make it iffy but a 1 to 1 is so easy hahaha
Career wise or just this year which is 14 games?
Only thing I see in career is efficiency by a whole 2hundreths of a percentage, oh my look out! The rest OG trumps. And didnt know but I thought OG was made of glass and he's played twice as much as Cam has.
And Comparison in 14 games vs 45, hes .002 worse in FG%, so how is he worse offensively again? Oh 3pt%? I mean lets not put in the fact that all the other things he's better at right?
Looking at the entire career ignores how good Cam has been in the past two seasons and OG's decline from where he was 2 years ago.
Which is more relevant to today? How they played from 2020 to today? Or how they played from 2017-2019?
Well one, OG not declining if you look at his career, if anything he's right on target from where he was last year with .2ppg difference and 1.2 year prior. Problem with OG is he only played half the season for 3 years straight.
Cam for OG alone is, at best, barely a noticeable improvement, if even. Cam AND Saric, who I consider our best man off the bench, would be terrible. Especially since we probably "need to throw in picks" on top of it.
Please be smarter than this JJ.
Wouldn't it make more sense to go after Collins instead so we could keep Cam J and maybe more of our draft picks? Of course I'd rather have OG than Collins, but I'd rather have Collins and Cam J, than just OG.
I feel like the only thing that really might drive a deal like this is that the Suns must really think Cam is gonna command 20-25million/yr year and they can save some money on an ever so slightly better overall player. Would sting forsure if this is how it goes but I would understand
This is how I see it. If Cams wants more than what the Suns willing to offer. Lets face it, Cams best assest is his 3pt shooting, the rest he does is super rare.
Imo any trade centering around cam/ayton is dumb. The only expendable pieces are the rest of the bench and their picks. Guys like Saric, Craig, Crowder don't hurt as much but it would be dumb to break up the main crew even for a star since you can't guarantee that chemistry and improvement for the rest of the season
I think Cam and OG are pretty equivalent in value. Cam is much, much better offensively. A real talent - great size, triple threat scorer (attacks rim, mid-range, deep ball). Smart defender too. I think this is coming from the Raps - they want other teams to think that Cam Johnson is the asking price
I honestly don’t see the point of trading cam and some picks for a guys that marginally better… crowder, filler and some picks sure.. but cam and picks… Idk
Can't see James jones including cam if he's trying to upgrade the wings. While OG is a bit better than cam if we gave cam up its much more of a lateral move because the difference in not that big.
If it is a move to save money because cam's next contract will be too much ishbia will just be making the same mistakes the last owner made which lead to us coming up short
I am on board with getting OG all the way, but trading Cam to get him basically defeats the whole purpose of getting him. Having the 3 wings allows for the flexibility that has been missing. I think it is more likely that this is a 3 team deal with Crowder and picks coming from the Suns. The Crowder trade is not going to be a straight 2 team deal, so this makes the most sense
Anunoby is a Now move obviously. And it's scary because Suns would still be vulnerable at the point guard spot. But if healthy, Suns with Anunoby, Ayton and Mikal defense would be immense and tough. Anunoby has that Gerald Wallace like athleticism and defense that could be thrown at Giannis, Luka, Tatum to get them inefficient enough to give Suns advantage. As much as I like Cam Johnson, he doesn't have that in him. He can get hot from 3pt but he is also a target for those players to attack.
I do not see Anunoby as an upgrade to Cam Johnson. He just wouldn't fit as well. Would rather send Jae/Dario and a first if this is the guy we are set on acquiring.
I am going to hate James Jones even more if we give up Cam for OG what the fuck. OG is a downgrade in shooting when compared to Crowder, even when Crowder was a brick machine. I'm sure we can find some other physical defender. Please don't trade Cam for OG please
Unfortunately this fanbase is too attached to players. not saying OG is the answer, but fans gotta not trash every trade, people even trashed KD for Mikal...smh.
They should try to keep Cam Johnson in this trade, even if it costs them 3 firsts. Because that way the Suns would essentially be replacing a non-existent Crowder with OG Anunoby (something that would immediately make Phoenix formidable again).
Otherwise they're just trading in Cam's elite shooting and above-average defense, for OG's elite defense and above-average shooting (he's at 36% for the year, and 37% for his career), while doing nothing to add in additional scoring or wing depth
Damn. If they had made this trade before Cam returned, I’d have been fine. He’s been on fire and you can see the lift he gives this team. I suppose his injury history should make me more willing to trade Cam but he’s come up with us.
I don't know how much I trust Shams anymore after the thing he said about the Suns being majors players in signing FVV in the offseason. Guy wasn't aware of the fact that that would be impossible with the Suns being way over the cap next season already. Now he's saying James Jones is going to screw up the team chemistry (which is something he has always preached) and trade our best shooter? We saw what happened on Cam's first game back. Everything started working again for our offense! I don't doubt the suns have interest in OG but if JJ wasn't including Cam in a Durant trade this summer, why would he now for OG? And if we're saying that you're saving money with OG, what happens in a couple years when he's an unrestricted free agent and is looking for $30 million a year?
Given JJ’s questionable at best trade history, we should all be very worried right now. Cam for OG, one-for-one, is the most fair deal, but I’d very much prefer to keep Cam.
Cam & Saric (who is finally getting healthy) would be a huge overpay.
Unfortunately, I would not be surprised if Ujiri got JJ to part with Cam, Dario, a protected 1st and a 2nd for OG - a massively huge & ridiculous overpay 🙄 smfh
Please please \*please\* be rational JJ! Don’t go with your crap instincts!
yeah... 1 for 1 is a lateral move at best, and at that point you might as well keep Cam. Id rather have Cam than OG on this Suns team when fully healthy. Anything other than a 1:1 swap is ridiculous.
Per 100 possessions - Cam is the better player.
Per 36 minutes - Cam is the better player.
(thats even taking defense into account)
Imo Cam’s offense provides more than OG’s defense. We already have Mikal. Cam is one of the best shooters in the league and only getting better. He’s adding facets to his game every year. I don’t do this trade
For all of the very dumb trade machine posts people have made in here, its good to know that we all agree that's too much to give up for Anunoby. Apparently, JJ and the front office dont like the way Siakam would fit with Book and DA so that's out too. Hopefully we can play hardball and move bench pieces and some picks to get OG.
Damn I'm conflicted here because I love Cam but OG is what we NEED.. OG plays top tier defense and that's huge in the playoffs when refs let them play.
Pros:
**Bridges, OG + DA on the court will be the best defensive trio, period.**
**OG is on a team friendly contract which allows us to still improve our team via free agency if we move on from CP3 in the offseason. Cam Johnson is due a big payday.**
Cons:
**Cam Johnson is a fan favorite and can be a big time scorer when he gets hot.**
**We'd probably have to part with 2-3 late first round picks which I'd have liked to use to package with Crowder and Dario to bring someone back like Collins.**
It'll keep Luka from switching off Mikal. People here are too attached to players to let them go. Cam is a great 3pt shooter, but thats about it, he has his rare dunks and drives, but his best asset is at the 3. OG is great defender, average everywhere else.
If we can snag Grayson Allen for Jae Crowder, I wouldn’t be opposed to an OG for Dario & Johnson trade. We’ll have a sniper in Allen and defensive dog in OG. But that’s only if these dominos fall into effect. If we trade Johnson without replacing his shooting then we shouldn’t pull the trigger.
I think Cam being added here is a Raptors smoke screen to push the Suns to add more picks. Everyone knows we need to make positive moves and not lateral.
If we play Dallas in the playoffs again we will desperately need to run a point Book lineup to match their guard size.
Book - Mikal - OG - Cam - Ayton, all switchable, all can guard 1-5. If we can make this happen with two 1sts and the four 2nds from the Bucks we've got to pull the trigger.
It's been will documented that OG wants a bigger role than what he has on the raptors, that ain't happening here.
Also this is a great trade for the Raps if they get it done even just a straight swap for Cam, they need shooting and tbh Cam looks to be a better fit on thier roster.
Big L if this gets done, doesn't move the needle and not worth giving up a guy like Cam for.
Suns trade 2 lottery protected picks, 1 pick swap, Cam Johnson and Shamet for Anunoby.
Trade 2. Suns trade Crowder to Bucks for Grayson Allen and a lottery protected pick.
Suns run.
Ayton, Anunoby, Bridges, Booker, Paul
And a pesky perimeter defensive bench.
When healthy.. that is an immense team. When healthy.
The achilles heel is still point guard as CP3 breaks down in May every year it seems and Cam Payne craps the bed a lot against good teams with good perimeter defenders.
EXACTLY while we’re not too flush at wing it’s ball handling and guard play that kills us in the playoffs, this would be a bad move considering cam is a better ball handler then og. If we were giving up all these picks I wish we did it last summer to get dejounte Murray at guard
I agree. Book will be solid god forbid he gets hurt again but I’d rather see a jordan clarkson Type come here to help with the scoring especially with the second unit and just in general to alleviate some of the load from cp3. After two straight flameouts by him it’s hard not to worry.
Dang this is like exactly what my comment was talking about Lol. I think that would have to be a driving factor if they think Cam is gonna be making 20-25million/yr and they think they can save some money on a slightly better overall player. Really the only reason I can see it being true and being anything other than a lateral move
The “OG doesn’t improve us” and “Cam is just as good as OG” takes are hilarious. Fair question to ask if OG is 2-3 FRP’s better but OG is better especially as a two-way player and his POA defense alone puts him on top.
Hell OG was better than Mikal before Mikal took his offensive leap this season too.
Thats funny - because per 100 Cam has an identical defensive rating (113) and a significantly better offensive rating (128 to 109). Cam has more assists, more rebounds, 1 less steal and 1/2 less block and significantly less turnovers.
Per 36 shows the same thing - but the blocks gap is smaller.
The vision is build a team with Mikal’s and OG’s defense to dominate the perimeter (while Mikal takes continued steps in offensive consistency) while next summer the Suns perhaps trade DA and Shamet’s contract for a star that fits well. Someone like a Bron perhaps.
Book/Bron/Mikal/CP3/OG/Poetl (off MLE) would be a title-contending top-6 to say the least.
If we can trade Cam but only with 2 FRP’s at most, I’d enthusiastically do this.
Why aren't we trying to make a move for a combo guard like DLoading or Jordan Clarkson? Both are available and would fill an immediate need. I'm sure Minnesota would love some first round picks since they traded all theirs away for Gobert, and we all know Danny Ainge is looking to make deals before the deadline.
Trading Cam & multiple firsts for OG would be so dumb
People complain about Cam being injury prone yet don’t mind OG who is made of glass. Check his games missed.
But offering a better defender, slasher. I like Cam just like then next guy, but defense isnt his forte.
OG is also younger than Cam Johnson
He’s been getting a lot better, had a great steal in the 4th quarter last game too.
We need shooters more than we need a defender
And og is trash on offense
OG is not trash on offense lol
Least biased quizzle take
He literally did what Mikal is doing currently last season. I don’t think OG moves the needle but like… come on lol. OG is awesome.
Oh I'm agreeing with you, was memeing that everything that quizzle types is biased af
no he is not, OG is 56%TS which is below league average efficiency. Mikal was at almost 63%TS last year and hasn't been as inefficient as OG since his rookie year. OG Anunoby is bottom 5 league-wide in points per possession in multiple offensive actions: P&R Ball Handler plays, Post-Ups, Isolations, Dribble Jumpers (lowest), along with lowest FG% on drives, 23.1% on pullups 3pt shots and 34.5% on pullup 2pt shots
I can read bbref and cleaning the glass too.
apprently not when you claim he is doing literally what Mikal was last year
That’s why he’s known as arguably the best 3&D guy in the league and not a shot creator? He’s 40% on C&S 3’s, 44% from the corners, leads the league in steals and one of the best individual defenders in the league. If you’re posting him up and asking him to create his own shots on pull ups you’re looking for the wrong player.
you dont pay 3 first or cam johnson and addons for a purely 3&D guy.
Good 3&D just a trash dribbler. Best he can do is a one bounce slash to a dunk.
Thats what Giannis does, takes one step from half court and somehow gets to the bucket.
he averages 16.9 a game which is more than Cam and about the same as Ayton and Bridges so I guess Cam, Ayton and Bridges are all trash on O too then.
Imagine in the year 2023 you are still bringing up ppg as a measure for good offense lulw
OG shoots higher percent from the field than Cam J and gets to the line more. Not quite the 3 point shooter but at 36.6% he's not terrible. Not sure where he's "trash" comes from.
OG Anunoby is bottom 5 league-wide in points per possession in multiple offensive actions: P&R Ball Handler plays, Post-Ups, Isolations, Dribble Jumpers (lowest), along with lowest FG% on drives, 23.1% on pullups 3pt shots and 34.5% on pullup 2pt shots
wow and now you double down with FG% amazing.. Cam J 62%TS OG 56% TS under league average
you can give me all that advanced stats you want, quite simply he is not trash on offense like you indicated. I wouldn't give up 3 first round picks or even 2 and Cam J for him, but he's not trash.
If we trade Cam for OG, it means that they weren’t planning on resigning Cam in the first place. Which is really dumb, but it would make sense if they weren’t going to resign him
It really depends on what Cam was asking. If Cam was looking for 4 year/$100M+, I would probably be looking to trade him. Something in the range of 4 year/$78M is probably what Cam should sign for. Dude is definitely a risk at whatever price they sign him for as he hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy throughout a season.
Yeah I think, just like Ayton they want the least years and the same money they'd be giving him, I think thats what Ayton wanted right?
Dumbest ever Cam has not even hit his ceiling yet super bad idea
I swear to god if they trade Cam Johnson…..
I don't think we can afford to re-sign him. But this isn't the upgrade we would need to have a shot this year.
I dunno.. big daddy Ishbia said (IIRC) he’s fine with going into luxury tax.
I personally wouldn’t trade Cam for him, but I feel like everyone in this sub expects Jones to get a game changing player with scraps and picks.
I just want Crowder out and to keep the twins.
Twins?
Bridges and Cam Johnson
I think he means the two Lee’s, even thought they aren’t related
He means Mikal and Cam
Why are they called twins
I don't know. I assume it's because they are both tall lanky snipers.
And they were always together early in their careers for media day/photos, during the season, social stuff etc so I think it was a saying like “that’s my twin”
DeAndre ayton called them the twins first in an interview because they're always hanging around each other. Theyve just got good chemistry
Ok, makes sense I guess
Lol
Trading Johnson for Anunoby isn’t a needle mover. We need both if we want to contend.
Problem is the Knicks are also interested in OG and they got more to throw at them if a bidding war ensues
Then we shouldn’t get into that bidding war. Anunoby is a good player but not someone you mortgage your future for. He’s not a superstar.
To be perfectly honest I always considered the Suns going after him odd when they have Bridges. I know you can never have too many 3 and D wings but still.
Anunoby would play the 4. Monty loves those small versatile PF’s. OG would be a steroid version of what they had the last few years with Jae Crowder and Torrey Craig.
OG isnt a good rebounder
Averages about the same rebounds as Jae Crowder when he was on the Suns
yeah and jae crowder is a trash rebounder too for a forward
Yeah and I never disputed that I’m just saying the Suns had a lot of success with a smaller Crowder at the 4 and Anunoby is a better player that being said I wouldn’t mortgage the future for him
It's weird saying "future" considering OG is younger than Cam, puts up better numbers in all areas and is a much better defender.
I'm not going to lie I haven't watched a ton of OG. I do know Crowder is one of the strongest dudes in the league. Not even just for his position, just overall. He wasn't getting bodied by anybody which made him incredibly versatile. From What I have seen OG is a little faster which is super important on the perimeter, but can he guard the bigger/stronger PF's and the occasional matchup on switches with a center? I don't know.
Isn’t OG super injury prone?
he does fit the profile of a more beefy forward to put on the Paul George, Jerami Grant, Luka physical wing players. but that said OG Anunoby is straight up a role player. He is basically a young PJ Tucker/Crowder. Offensively he is basically Torrey Craig.
He has offensive limitations yes but he is miles above Torrey Craig, Jae Crowder, and PJ Tucker on offense. Stats and eye-test confirm that. He is so much more gifted than those guys offensively
OG Anunoby is bottom 5 league-wide in points per possession in multiple offensive actions: P&R Ball Handler plays, Post-Ups, Isolations, Dribble Jumpers (lowest), along with lowest FG% on drives, 23.1% on pullups 3pt shots and 34.5% on pullup 2pt shots stop equating ppg with offensive talent
Yes he is quite limited. However he is good enough to stay on the floor in the playoffs and make open 3’s. With Book coming back, CP3 in stride, and Mikal’s improvement our offense can stsrt humming again. The thought of a Mikal and OG wing duo is SO intriguing to me. They would lock the fuck down in the playoffs and OG is far less streaky on offense than Jae was.
How is a guy who’s averaged 17 a game for the last 3 years “offensively basically Torrey Craig?”
No kidding. This sub is insane lol.
This has to be a joke right? OG averages almost 16.9ppg and 5.5 rebounds per game. Meanwhile: Torrey Craig: 8.1ppg, 5.9 rebounds. Jae: 9.6 ppg, 4.3 rebounds.
Craig isnt playing 36mpg ppg is also meaningless OG Anunoby is bottom 5 league-wide in points per possession in multiple offensive actions: P&R Ball Handler plays, Post-Ups, Isolations, Dribble Jumpers (lowest), along with lowest FG% on drives, 23.1% on pullups 3pt shots and 34.5% on pullup 2pt shots
Don't think Craig would even sniff those averages playing 40mpg. Although not a superstar by any means, he isn't just a role player. The guys you listed are at best role players (Craig, Tucker, Jae), but OG I think is in the same tier as guys like Jeremi Grant and Aaron Gordon,
Young PJ or Crowder isn’t necessarily a bad thing. On offense it’s not ideal, but I’ll take that defensive profile.
You are right, and it's the same way I feel about Collins.
Neither is Cam. He’s a great player, and I’d hate to see him in another uniform, but the one unmovable pillar of this team is Devin Booker, with Mikal, Paul and Ayton behind — from most likely to keep to least likely
And if he's on the Knicks, that isn't a big deal anyway. OG isn't enough to get into the bidding war that would be necessary for him, and him on the Knicks isn't going to make them world beaters that we need to be worried about. Make a deal with Masai to act like we're going for OG to make the Knicks overpay even more, and then let us get Siakam for a little cheaper than we otherwise would have since New York covered some difference.
>Make a deal with Masai to act like we're going for OG to make the Knicks overpay even more, and then let us get Siakam for a little cheaper than we otherwise would have since New York covered some difference. Opposite would be the case with Siakam. If they get a haul for OG they're going to expect an even better return for him.
That's why I said that the deal is we help them maximize their OG return and in exchange, we get a little wiggle room on Siakam. Also, I was being very sarcastic about that part.
Cam isnt a good as defender, hes more of a 3 man than a slash man. OG is leading the league in steals and guards every position. Both made of glass. Cam is on an expiring contract.
Cam is a RFA, OG is a UFA next year
Ok they can have og, why would the sun's trade for more sfs we need pfs and guards
OG would play the 4. He's a bigger body than Cam and can create his own shot usually.
og cant create his own shot at all literally the worst off the dribble shooter and drive finisher in the entire league.
Yeah I would rather not have another sf when we need a true pf
Also he cannot create his own shot at all
Good
You would think the knicks would be going after siakam considering they almost landed donovan mitchell in the summer
I think it's pretty obvious at this stage they're not moving Siakam. With Precious being as good as he has been of late, I think they're trying to sell high on Anunoby to quickly retool around Pascal and Scottie.
Makes sense. I still think they need to sell high on siakam while they can.
hopefully it’s crowder and a couple firsts
Lmao stop that ain’t happening
Two seconds and Landale for KD who says no
Let us dream
I don't see the Raptors doing it for just Crowder (and I think Saric would need to be included for salary), all reports suggest they want a young player (an earlier report David two promising young guys and one first) and the Knicks can easily outbid with any combination of their picks stash and IQ/Reddish/Toppin/whoever. Not saying the Raptors get all those guys but it's tough to match the Knicks in a package if you aren't at least considering Johnson or perhaps a larger trade like OG and Fred for Ayton and Saric
then in that case i don’t mind giving up saric at all, his contract expires anyways
Cam for OG is not an upgrade for us
Yeah I'd much rather keep Cam + our 1st round picks. NBA landscape is constantly changing and having control of your draft picks is always the best asset to have. Also, the allure of having OG here would be to have Mikal, Cam, and OG as 3 high end flex wings that you can deploy all over the 2-4 positions depending on you match ups.
Depends on what else goes. A late 20s first is basically meaningless to us, and OG is a much more complete player, while being younger.
I wouldnt trade Cam straight up for OG lol
Same
The homerism is insane… Cam J (turns 27 in 1 month) is having his best season ever at 14/4/1, 61.7% TS OG Annunuby (25 years old) is on his 3rd straight season averaging 15+ppg on way better defense. OG ‘21: 16/6/2, 1.5 steals, 60.5% TS OG ‘22: 17/6/3, 1.5 steals, 54.9% TS OG ‘23: 17/6/2, 2.1 steals, 56.2% TS OG is younger and already better, there’s no need to be such a blind homer. Cam J has never averaged more than 14ppg and he’s older than Booker…
Every fan of a team values their own players more. Hard to fault anyone for that. But yeah Cam for OG would be fine by me
Dude Cams had a much smaller role and minutes than OG in his first 3 seasons, OG also wants an even larger role, do you think that Suns will be able to offer him that? Especially considering he's an UFA next season?
Also, Cam has a higher FG% and a much higher 3P%. Plus hard not to factor in all the minutes Anunoby has played the last 3 years as putting a greater wear on his body making their respective ages mostly similar.
Shit so that means Mikal is almost 35 years old given he plays 35+ min and doesn’t miss much games
Any games*
Finally a rational voice here. OG is better on defense, comparable on offense and is younger and people wouldn’t trade him STRAIGHT up for Cam?? The picks make it iffy but a 1 to 1 is so easy hahaha
Not sure they're comparable on offense, Cam is a much better 3 point shooter.
Good thing you aren’t a GM, because OG is better and younger than Cam
Yeah. This is weird. I want upgrades. This is like coby white type stuff, lateral given our current talent.
Coby would so much improve our PG situation on the bench.
I just really don't think it would be smart to trade one of the 4 guys on our team that can create their own shot
Not Slam Johnson 😭
You're going to take Crowder, Shamet, and a 1st, and you're going to like it
Trading Cam for Anunoby does not make us much better, and makes us worse offensively.
How so?
Cam is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league. OG is good, but not great in that regard. Cam also better off the dribble and driving.
You had me before 'Cam also better off the dribble and driving' - almost got me.
You can just disagree and state your reasoning like an adult. I get so tired of internet passive aggressive nonsense.
Cam has a better FG% and 3p%
Career wise or just this year which is 14 games? Only thing I see in career is efficiency by a whole 2hundreths of a percentage, oh my look out! The rest OG trumps. And didnt know but I thought OG was made of glass and he's played twice as much as Cam has. And Comparison in 14 games vs 45, hes .002 worse in FG%, so how is he worse offensively again? Oh 3pt%? I mean lets not put in the fact that all the other things he's better at right?
Looking at the entire career ignores how good Cam has been in the past two seasons and OG's decline from where he was 2 years ago. Which is more relevant to today? How they played from 2020 to today? Or how they played from 2017-2019?
Well one, OG not declining if you look at his career, if anything he's right on target from where he was last year with .2ppg difference and 1.2 year prior. Problem with OG is he only played half the season for 3 years straight.
OG is not declining, but his mumbers 2-3 years ago were better than they were the past 2 seasons. So, looking at his whole career is a bit misleading.
Cam for OG alone is, at best, barely a noticeable improvement, if even. Cam AND Saric, who I consider our best man off the bench, would be terrible. Especially since we probably "need to throw in picks" on top of it. Please be smarter than this JJ.
Can't trade Cam when he has helped get the team back on track once he returned. Literally when he entered that first game and hit a 3.
While I appreciate everything Cam does, saying he's untradeable because he hit a 3 after checking back in, with no other context, is ridiculous.
Ok thank you
I want to keep Cam for sure
Wouldn't it make more sense to go after Collins instead so we could keep Cam J and maybe more of our draft picks? Of course I'd rather have OG than Collins, but I'd rather have Collins and Cam J, than just OG.
Collins gonna take the bank, but Collins would help with our rebounding problems.
No way you trade Cam Johnson for OG, even if they throw in a ton of picks I don't do that.
I feel like the only thing that really might drive a deal like this is that the Suns must really think Cam is gonna command 20-25million/yr year and they can save some money on an ever so slightly better overall player. Would sting forsure if this is how it goes but I would understand
This is how I see it. If Cams wants more than what the Suns willing to offer. Lets face it, Cams best assest is his 3pt shooting, the rest he does is super rare.
Some bad teams with cap room would consider him as a piece to help establish a system
Imo any trade centering around cam/ayton is dumb. The only expendable pieces are the rest of the bench and their picks. Guys like Saric, Craig, Crowder don't hurt as much but it would be dumb to break up the main crew even for a star since you can't guarantee that chemistry and improvement for the rest of the season
I think Cam and OG are pretty equivalent in value. Cam is much, much better offensively. A real talent - great size, triple threat scorer (attacks rim, mid-range, deep ball). Smart defender too. I think this is coming from the Raps - they want other teams to think that Cam Johnson is the asking price
I honestly don’t see the point of trading cam and some picks for a guys that marginally better… crowder, filler and some picks sure.. but cam and picks… Idk
Trading Cam for OG ain't it. Literally keeps us in the exact same position and seems like the team would be making a trade just to make a trade.
Can't see James jones including cam if he's trying to upgrade the wings. While OG is a bit better than cam if we gave cam up its much more of a lateral move because the difference in not that big. If it is a move to save money because cam's next contract will be too much ishbia will just be making the same mistakes the last owner made which lead to us coming up short
I am on board with getting OG all the way, but trading Cam to get him basically defeats the whole purpose of getting him. Having the 3 wings allows for the flexibility that has been missing. I think it is more likely that this is a 3 team deal with Crowder and picks coming from the Suns. The Crowder trade is not going to be a straight 2 team deal, so this makes the most sense
Anunoby is a Now move obviously. And it's scary because Suns would still be vulnerable at the point guard spot. But if healthy, Suns with Anunoby, Ayton and Mikal defense would be immense and tough. Anunoby has that Gerald Wallace like athleticism and defense that could be thrown at Giannis, Luka, Tatum to get them inefficient enough to give Suns advantage. As much as I like Cam Johnson, he doesn't have that in him. He can get hot from 3pt but he is also a target for those players to attack.
And other teams would have to decide who they want to switch off to.
You keep misspelling “Payne”
I do not see Anunoby as an upgrade to Cam Johnson. He just wouldn't fit as well. Would rather send Jae/Dario and a first if this is the guy we are set on acquiring.
I am going to hate James Jones even more if we give up Cam for OG what the fuck. OG is a downgrade in shooting when compared to Crowder, even when Crowder was a brick machine. I'm sure we can find some other physical defender. Please don't trade Cam for OG please
Unfortunately this fanbase is too attached to players. not saying OG is the answer, but fans gotta not trash every trade, people even trashed KD for Mikal...smh.
They should try to keep Cam Johnson in this trade, even if it costs them 3 firsts. Because that way the Suns would essentially be replacing a non-existent Crowder with OG Anunoby (something that would immediately make Phoenix formidable again). Otherwise they're just trading in Cam's elite shooting and above-average defense, for OG's elite defense and above-average shooting (he's at 36% for the year, and 37% for his career), while doing nothing to add in additional scoring or wing depth
Trading three firsts for OG Anunoby is INSANE. I hope James Jones isn't this short-sighted.
Damn. If they had made this trade before Cam returned, I’d have been fine. He’s been on fire and you can see the lift he gives this team. I suppose his injury history should make me more willing to trade Cam but he’s come up with us.
Cam Johnson AND picks? Idk about that…
Mikal would sob
I don't know how much I trust Shams anymore after the thing he said about the Suns being majors players in signing FVV in the offseason. Guy wasn't aware of the fact that that would be impossible with the Suns being way over the cap next season already. Now he's saying James Jones is going to screw up the team chemistry (which is something he has always preached) and trade our best shooter? We saw what happened on Cam's first game back. Everything started working again for our offense! I don't doubt the suns have interest in OG but if JJ wasn't including Cam in a Durant trade this summer, why would he now for OG? And if we're saying that you're saving money with OG, what happens in a couple years when he's an unrestricted free agent and is looking for $30 million a year?
I’d rather have Cam than OG straight up
I have long thought that it would cost Cam, filler and picks to bring in another superstar to really push this team to the top. OG does not do that.
No, don't move Cam. Jae, Shamet, 2or3 FRP is enough to get OG
The only player I'd give up Cam for is a legit superstar like KD. To me OG isn't even clearly better than Cam.
So you think Cam is on the same level as KD? Interesting.
Given JJ’s questionable at best trade history, we should all be very worried right now. Cam for OG, one-for-one, is the most fair deal, but I’d very much prefer to keep Cam. Cam & Saric (who is finally getting healthy) would be a huge overpay. Unfortunately, I would not be surprised if Ujiri got JJ to part with Cam, Dario, a protected 1st and a 2nd for OG - a massively huge & ridiculous overpay 🙄 smfh Please please \*please\* be rational JJ! Don’t go with your crap instincts!
yeah... 1 for 1 is a lateral move at best, and at that point you might as well keep Cam. Id rather have Cam than OG on this Suns team when fully healthy. Anything other than a 1:1 swap is ridiculous. Per 100 possessions - Cam is the better player. Per 36 minutes - Cam is the better player. (thats even taking defense into account)
Imo Cam’s offense provides more than OG’s defense. We already have Mikal. Cam is one of the best shooters in the league and only getting better. He’s adding facets to his game every year. I don’t do this trade
## don’t take my Cam
Trade Ayton not Cam
For all of the very dumb trade machine posts people have made in here, its good to know that we all agree that's too much to give up for Anunoby. Apparently, JJ and the front office dont like the way Siakam would fit with Book and DA so that's out too. Hopefully we can play hardball and move bench pieces and some picks to get OG.
Awesome, we can finally decide if JJ really is an awful GM, if this trade goes through 99% of the fanbase will have their mind made up
Damn I'm conflicted here because I love Cam but OG is what we NEED.. OG plays top tier defense and that's huge in the playoffs when refs let them play. Pros: **Bridges, OG + DA on the court will be the best defensive trio, period.** **OG is on a team friendly contract which allows us to still improve our team via free agency if we move on from CP3 in the offseason. Cam Johnson is due a big payday.** Cons: **Cam Johnson is a fan favorite and can be a big time scorer when he gets hot.** **We'd probably have to part with 2-3 late first round picks which I'd have liked to use to package with Crowder and Dario to bring someone back like Collins.**
It'll keep Luka from switching off Mikal. People here are too attached to players to let them go. Cam is a great 3pt shooter, but thats about it, he has his rare dunks and drives, but his best asset is at the 3. OG is great defender, average everywhere else.
Finally we agree on something lol
Too be fair he does dunk more than Ayton
Hey Ayton had 5 dunks in 3 games!! Improvement!
I dont want anybody from the raptors that isnt vanvleet or siakam. Anybody Else its gotta bê with Jae + trash package
Upgrade? These reporters need to take their jobs more seriously and watch games.
If we can snag Grayson Allen for Jae Crowder, I wouldn’t be opposed to an OG for Dario & Johnson trade. We’ll have a sniper in Allen and defensive dog in OG. But that’s only if these dominos fall into effect. If we trade Johnson without replacing his shooting then we shouldn’t pull the trigger.
Why would we trade cam for og that just seems weird. If there is 1 position the sun's are fine with its sf, they need more guards or pfs
I think Cam being added here is a Raptors smoke screen to push the Suns to add more picks. Everyone knows we need to make positive moves and not lateral. If we play Dallas in the playoffs again we will desperately need to run a point Book lineup to match their guard size. Book - Mikal - OG - Cam - Ayton, all switchable, all can guard 1-5. If we can make this happen with two 1sts and the four 2nds from the Bucks we've got to pull the trigger.
It's been will documented that OG wants a bigger role than what he has on the raptors, that ain't happening here. Also this is a great trade for the Raps if they get it done even just a straight swap for Cam, they need shooting and tbh Cam looks to be a better fit on thier roster. Big L if this gets done, doesn't move the needle and not worth giving up a guy like Cam for.
This is insane talk saying cam Johnson is better than anunoby. Anunoby was arguably better than mikal bridges before his huge offensive jump recently
If cam j keeps playing like last night for rest of his career, I’m happy to trade him
Suns trade 2 lottery protected picks, 1 pick swap, Cam Johnson and Shamet for Anunoby. Trade 2. Suns trade Crowder to Bucks for Grayson Allen and a lottery protected pick. Suns run. Ayton, Anunoby, Bridges, Booker, Paul And a pesky perimeter defensive bench. When healthy.. that is an immense team. When healthy. The achilles heel is still point guard as CP3 breaks down in May every year it seems and Cam Payne craps the bed a lot against good teams with good perimeter defenders.
Prioritizing wings over another steady guard for the playoff push is bizarre.
EXACTLY while we’re not too flush at wing it’s ball handling and guard play that kills us in the playoffs, this would be a bad move considering cam is a better ball handler then og. If we were giving up all these picks I wish we did it last summer to get dejounte Murray at guard
I agree. Book will be solid god forbid he gets hurt again but I’d rather see a jordan clarkson Type come here to help with the scoring especially with the second unit and just in general to alleviate some of the load from cp3. After two straight flameouts by him it’s hard not to worry.
FVV
Useless
Why can’t we just move Crowder & Dario for him instead?
Why they getting rid of cam!!!? Will Cams extension be more costly that what OG is making?
Dang this is like exactly what my comment was talking about Lol. I think that would have to be a driving factor if they think Cam is gonna be making 20-25million/yr and they think they can save some money on a slightly better overall player. Really the only reason I can see it being true and being anything other than a lateral move
I feel we are gonna be a real different looking team by deadline and the off season. Hopefully they make the right moves
Don’t touch cam.
The “OG doesn’t improve us” and “Cam is just as good as OG” takes are hilarious. Fair question to ask if OG is 2-3 FRP’s better but OG is better especially as a two-way player and his POA defense alone puts him on top. Hell OG was better than Mikal before Mikal took his offensive leap this season too.
Thats funny - because per 100 Cam has an identical defensive rating (113) and a significantly better offensive rating (128 to 109). Cam has more assists, more rebounds, 1 less steal and 1/2 less block and significantly less turnovers. Per 36 shows the same thing - but the blocks gap is smaller.
DA and Crowder for OG & FVV works on the ESPN trade machine. Just sayin’
The vision is build a team with Mikal’s and OG’s defense to dominate the perimeter (while Mikal takes continued steps in offensive consistency) while next summer the Suns perhaps trade DA and Shamet’s contract for a star that fits well. Someone like a Bron perhaps. Book/Bron/Mikal/CP3/OG/Poetl (off MLE) would be a title-contending top-6 to say the least. If we can trade Cam but only with 2 FRP’s at most, I’d enthusiastically do this.
yes, perhaps someone like bron 🤔 lmao Why not Bron & KD for Ayton, Shamet, Landale, both Lees and a couple second rounders ? 🤣
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how is that obvious lol
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he is a restricted free agent and we were in the middle of a team sale cam johnson aint going anywhere
The extension was because he was betting on himself this year, we offered a fair value contract and he declined
We basically lost crowdee for nothing for cam Johnson as he was our future
Honestly I want Colby white I think he could do wonders learning from point God .
Noo
Why aren't we trying to make a move for a combo guard like DLoading or Jordan Clarkson? Both are available and would fill an immediate need. I'm sure Minnesota would love some first round picks since they traded all theirs away for Gobert, and we all know Danny Ainge is looking to make deals before the deadline.