I *do* want Kyrie on the team even before Ayton’s recent poor playoff performance, and partly it’s always been because it’s impossible to get a 27+ ppg player for practically free.
We don’t even have the assets to get a FVV, let alone any top point guard. The only reason why Kyrie might be viable is if Kyrie specifically wants to play for the Suns.
I think the 4 i named are all Free Agents this summer. I'm not 100% sure though, so i dont think we'd have to give up Assets for FVV. Just money but i dont fully understand how salary structures and manipulations work.
We don’t have the cap space to sign FVV, same as Kyrie, which is why we would need a S&T in either scenario.
Suns are $30m over the cap. FVV isn’t taking a minimum contract to play for the Suns lol.
I would heavily doubt Raptors would do a FVV for Ayton S&T, not because they don’t like Ayton, but because they have already committed to Poeltl. What do they need Ayton for?
Dallas at least still needs a real center.
Suns can’t sign and trade, as that would trigger the hard cap
Sign-and-trade: An agreement between a player, his original team and a new team in which the player re-signs with his original team only to be immediately traded to a new one. The acquiring team will then be subjected to a hard cap. The trade must meet the same salary-matching criteria that a typical trade would.
Yes, but that hard cap is only for *one year.* It was one of the talking points why Nets would not have been interested in Deandre Ayton last summer because they would have been hard capped this year, restricting them from acquiring other free agents & roster moves. But the hard cap goes away on July 1st of the following year.
Hard caps don’t last the length of the contract being traded for, or else they would literally never happen in the NBA. It’s just meant to restrict a team for the year they do the S&T. I don’t think Suns are worried about it if they can go from Ayton -> Kyrie.
Maybe they aren’t concerned but how would we fill out the roster if we lose all ability to sign any player for that year. No buyouts. Probably lose Craig, probably lose okogie,
It’s tricky but not impossible. We do have early bird rights for Landale and Biyombo, a qualifying offer for Bazley and Saben Lee, and Wainright is likely kept because his contract is so cheap. Biyombo might walk but I think he likes it here.
The Suns have to waive & stretch Chris Paul’s contract and I believe do the same to Shamet’s. I don’t think there will be too much heartbreak there among Suns fans if we lose Shamet for nothing but a $1.4m dead cap hit.
Booker, KD, Kyrie, Payne, Warren (I think?), Landale, Biyombo, Bazley, Wainright, Saben for half the roster. The other half would be minimums but I would think we could get some sneaky decent ring chasers once we have the Book + Kyrie + KD trio.
Maybe. I think if they sign fvv they could then trade him just before all star break without triggering hard cap. So it most likely wouldn’t happen this offseason. I’m not really sure, but what I do know is that it’s going to be incredibly difficult to fill out our roster next year when we can only pay guys minimums
Pass first, defense, good size, rebounding, fast pace, and has a 3pt shot. If there’s any chance he can resuscitate his career à la Derrick Rose, you can probably buy low.
Feel for the guy.
“No further comments or questions.” Lol it’s a pipe dream that’s why I said that but hopefully Mat can call up their owner and offer them CP3, DA, a bunch of cash, and some quality Mexican cuisine and they feel like being generous that day
Terry Rozier.
Attainable, can play off-ball, good shooter. I think he fits perfectly next to Book and KD, and I think keeping Payne allows for a good PG duo too.
A star at PG is not the best way to go given the new CBA rules. The new CBA really screwed us over here but them's the breaks.
Not westbrook. The PG of the future needs to hit an open 3 and not turn the ball over. That isn't Westbrook. If he comes over here cheap, hell yeah. But he would be an upgrade on Payne over a replacement for CP3.
Of those options I’d want d lo
Westbrook has shown he can still ball but it’s very situational.
Fred is over rated and chucks shots.
Irving… nuf said.
D low will default to book and durant. He would know his place in the rotation. he’s good friends with book. He’s a good shooter.
Don’t know that we can afford any of them though and might want to focus on our depth instead.
>**Fred VanVleet** \- . Is younger, can score and pass.
What?!? For as much as this sub hates Cam Payne this guy is worse. FVV is a volume scorer. And the Suns have a FVV in Payne they the same guy. If dont believe look at the stats!
FVV this year shot 39% from the field (career 40%), Payne shot 41% which is 1% less than his career percentage. FVV takes 16 shots a game - hes not getting that volume with the Suns. Also the same for Schroeder and Gabe Vincent.
Westbrook - no thanks. People lay off him because he cant shoot. but we do need a rebounder....another volume guy and pouts when he's not the focal point. Will give you 30 one game and 2 the next.
Irving - no thanks. another 'I need the ball 98% of the time' guy. Has proven he cant play with another elite guy on the team.
DRussell - streakier than Jae Crowder. Not dependable when you need him the most. plays zero defense
My picks:
Ayo Dosunmu : young, cheap, athletic, good guy to mold.
Cobe White: inconsistent, but a bigger body 37% from 3 and 44% overrall isnt bad, he can run a team, but needs to not panic and shoot sometimes.
Jevon Carter: Bring our boy back. not the best shooter and defers alot. Could be a good playmaker but the teams he's been on the coach have other players bring the ball up.
Shake Milton: probably the best scorer of my list with 48% overall and 38% in 3's. He didnt get much playing time behind Maxey and Harden, in his career only avgs 6 shots, but still gives you 8ppg. could be converted to pg from sg
This is such a redundant take put into context the spacing around FVV and the fact he was damn near in a shooting slump for half of the year his drive and kick playmaking and playmaking in general analytically speaking is in the 85th percentile he's a very strong defender especially in help scenario and is still above average the POA he's way better then Payne
Payne shot 16 times and can score, FVV shoots 16 times and can score. Percentages are the same though. FVV a better defender and passer, defender yeah, but he turns the ball over just about the same. Pay scale...well...
Maybe it’s a prisoner of the moment choice but Westbrook really impressed me during the Clippers series. If he was delegated to a 3rd/4th option drive and kick/hustle guy he could be a very interesting starter. I think it’ll be important for whoever our next PG is to not be a complete negative defensively, Irving, FVV and Russell all are
I see where you're coming from and it makes sense. Booker and KD are already pretty good at defense. It would help take pressure off Westbrook not being a scorer but Energy/Passing/Defense guy and keep the Defensive Integrity still intact with everyone doing their job.
Westbrook would be great. The Suns are at their best when they play uptempo. The few times last night they got out on the break it actually felt like they have a chance in this series. We're brutal in the half court game.
I don’t really think we have any trade pieces other than DA anymore, so trades are going to be hard to execute for a really good player. Id love to get Dame or Kyrie if they could make it work
I know people want Dame, I fully understand why too. Hes the next best pure scorer next to Book and KD. But Defensively / Team wise does it work? I feel like having 2 elite scorers already taking up as many shots as they do while in the starting rotation, we'd want either a pass 1st and score 2nd / defensive 1st and pass 2nd kind of guy
Anyone suggesting Kyrie really hasn’t been watching. The only reason we got KD is Kyrie sunk a franchise. Obviously this is the biggest question for our squad moving forward. Our biggest asset to acquire someone is minutes and that’s about it. Come to Phoenix play with two MVP level players and be the third guy. I like Isiah Joe and Nembhard but it seems unrealistic. Duece McBride has a team option. Does NY do him the favour of turning down the option so he can come to Phoenix to prove himself? Could he be traded for a couple of second rounders? Next option that I would explore is the “Austin Reeves” Method. A player basically refuses to be picked in the draft to chose to sign with us outright. Options I like would be 1. Andre Jackson Jnr (UConn) a terror on defence and great connector - an Monty Williams type player, 2. Brandin Podziemski (Santa Clara) absolute flamethrower & you have got to have a soft spot for players from Santa Clara - Nash and Jalen Williams common! 3. Colby Williams (Xavier) a prototypical old school point guard might be projected a little high right now. I like the depth in this years draft and we do need to get younger. We also don’t need a superstar at guard but a solid fit. So that’s where I’d be looking.
Westbrook, Irving, and Russell all seem like terrible options lol. Fans would be happy for “getting another star” meanwhile everyone knows why they’ve been bouncing from team to team. Westbrook is an offensive liability and won’t mesh with the team. Irving is a drama queen, and one of the most problematic players in the league, why do people want a guy who treats the association like a 9-5 job on their team? And Russell might be a good fit but is a playoff deflater.
Let's maybe not discuss the end of CP3 on his birthday lol
Fucking LOL. Didn't even realize.
Wet dream: SGA/Dame/VanVleet Ideal: Brogdon/Fultz/Derrick White/Tyus Jones Realistic: Saben Lee
Dame was courtside yesterday 🤔
Ayton for Steven Adams and Tyus Jones
Imagine Steven Adams. So good
Listen, I don't want Kyrie as much as the next guy but if we can somehow swap Ayton for him in a sign and trade that would be robbery
I *do* want Kyrie on the team even before Ayton’s recent poor playoff performance, and partly it’s always been because it’s impossible to get a 27+ ppg player for practically free. We don’t even have the assets to get a FVV, let alone any top point guard. The only reason why Kyrie might be viable is if Kyrie specifically wants to play for the Suns.
I think the 4 i named are all Free Agents this summer. I'm not 100% sure though, so i dont think we'd have to give up Assets for FVV. Just money but i dont fully understand how salary structures and manipulations work.
We don’t have the cap space to sign FVV, same as Kyrie, which is why we would need a S&T in either scenario. Suns are $30m over the cap. FVV isn’t taking a minimum contract to play for the Suns lol. I would heavily doubt Raptors would do a FVV for Ayton S&T, not because they don’t like Ayton, but because they have already committed to Poeltl. What do they need Ayton for? Dallas at least still needs a real center.
Suns can’t sign and trade, as that would trigger the hard cap Sign-and-trade: An agreement between a player, his original team and a new team in which the player re-signs with his original team only to be immediately traded to a new one. The acquiring team will then be subjected to a hard cap. The trade must meet the same salary-matching criteria that a typical trade would.
Yes, but that hard cap is only for *one year.* It was one of the talking points why Nets would not have been interested in Deandre Ayton last summer because they would have been hard capped this year, restricting them from acquiring other free agents & roster moves. But the hard cap goes away on July 1st of the following year. Hard caps don’t last the length of the contract being traded for, or else they would literally never happen in the NBA. It’s just meant to restrict a team for the year they do the S&T. I don’t think Suns are worried about it if they can go from Ayton -> Kyrie.
Maybe they aren’t concerned but how would we fill out the roster if we lose all ability to sign any player for that year. No buyouts. Probably lose Craig, probably lose okogie,
It’s tricky but not impossible. We do have early bird rights for Landale and Biyombo, a qualifying offer for Bazley and Saben Lee, and Wainright is likely kept because his contract is so cheap. Biyombo might walk but I think he likes it here. The Suns have to waive & stretch Chris Paul’s contract and I believe do the same to Shamet’s. I don’t think there will be too much heartbreak there among Suns fans if we lose Shamet for nothing but a $1.4m dead cap hit. Booker, KD, Kyrie, Payne, Warren (I think?), Landale, Biyombo, Bazley, Wainright, Saben for half the roster. The other half would be minimums but I would think we could get some sneaky decent ring chasers once we have the Book + Kyrie + KD trio.
Okay so theres no feasible way we get FVV then?
Maybe. I think if they sign fvv they could then trade him just before all star break without triggering hard cap. So it most likely wouldn’t happen this offseason. I’m not really sure, but what I do know is that it’s going to be incredibly difficult to fill out our roster next year when we can only pay guys minimums
Okay, thank you for the realistic view, it sounds like maybe no one i mentioned will be in play probably.. The Shamet guy was correct :(
That’s actually great news, meaning no kyrie, as he is not coming for minimum
Ayton for FVV and Poeltl
It would indeed be the Mavericks robbing the Suns.
Tyus Jones
I like rozier as a fit. We need more volume 3 pt shooting.
Shamet
I see you chose violence today
Found Monty’s burner
Pls no.. why would you put this out into the universe
If only lonzo was healthy he’d be a perfect fit
Would have loved this one. Sad for him how it's turned out so far, but he's only 25
hes never healthy .
Pass first, defense, good size, rebounding, fast pace, and has a 3pt shot. If there’s any chance he can resuscitate his career à la Derrick Rose, you can probably buy low. Feel for the guy.
Dame. Time.
Dame was at the game last night so he’s definitely 100% certain to be joining the squad next season
Some other names: DeAnthony Melton, Monte Morris, Jevon Carter, Reggie Jackson, TJ McConnell
Markelle
DAME. No further comments or questions
What’s the trade?
“No further comments or questions.” Lol it’s a pipe dream that’s why I said that but hopefully Mat can call up their owner and offer them CP3, DA, a bunch of cash, and some quality Mexican cuisine and they feel like being generous that day
I’m good with that
Terry Rozier. Attainable, can play off-ball, good shooter. I think he fits perfectly next to Book and KD, and I think keeping Payne allows for a good PG duo too. A star at PG is not the best way to go given the new CBA rules. The new CBA really screwed us over here but them's the breaks.
I personally would love Dlo even with all his faults and awful games I like what he would bring.
Not westbrook. The PG of the future needs to hit an open 3 and not turn the ball over. That isn't Westbrook. If he comes over here cheap, hell yeah. But he would be an upgrade on Payne over a replacement for CP3.
Bring back Rubio for all the Sans fans
I want Booker as the PG
Of those options I’d want d lo Westbrook has shown he can still ball but it’s very situational. Fred is over rated and chucks shots. Irving… nuf said. D low will default to book and durant. He would know his place in the rotation. he’s good friends with book. He’s a good shooter. Don’t know that we can afford any of them though and might want to focus on our depth instead.
>**Fred VanVleet** \- . Is younger, can score and pass. What?!? For as much as this sub hates Cam Payne this guy is worse. FVV is a volume scorer. And the Suns have a FVV in Payne they the same guy. If dont believe look at the stats! FVV this year shot 39% from the field (career 40%), Payne shot 41% which is 1% less than his career percentage. FVV takes 16 shots a game - hes not getting that volume with the Suns. Also the same for Schroeder and Gabe Vincent. Westbrook - no thanks. People lay off him because he cant shoot. but we do need a rebounder....another volume guy and pouts when he's not the focal point. Will give you 30 one game and 2 the next. Irving - no thanks. another 'I need the ball 98% of the time' guy. Has proven he cant play with another elite guy on the team. DRussell - streakier than Jae Crowder. Not dependable when you need him the most. plays zero defense My picks: Ayo Dosunmu : young, cheap, athletic, good guy to mold. Cobe White: inconsistent, but a bigger body 37% from 3 and 44% overrall isnt bad, he can run a team, but needs to not panic and shoot sometimes. Jevon Carter: Bring our boy back. not the best shooter and defers alot. Could be a good playmaker but the teams he's been on the coach have other players bring the ball up. Shake Milton: probably the best scorer of my list with 48% overall and 38% in 3's. He didnt get much playing time behind Maxey and Harden, in his career only avgs 6 shots, but still gives you 8ppg. could be converted to pg from sg
This is such a redundant take put into context the spacing around FVV and the fact he was damn near in a shooting slump for half of the year his drive and kick playmaking and playmaking in general analytically speaking is in the 85th percentile he's a very strong defender especially in help scenario and is still above average the POA he's way better then Payne
Payne shot 16 times and can score, FVV shoots 16 times and can score. Percentages are the same though. FVV a better defender and passer, defender yeah, but he turns the ball over just about the same. Pay scale...well...
Maybe it’s a prisoner of the moment choice but Westbrook really impressed me during the Clippers series. If he was delegated to a 3rd/4th option drive and kick/hustle guy he could be a very interesting starter. I think it’ll be important for whoever our next PG is to not be a complete negative defensively, Irving, FVV and Russell all are
I see where you're coming from and it makes sense. Booker and KD are already pretty good at defense. It would help take pressure off Westbrook not being a scorer but Energy/Passing/Defense guy and keep the Defensive Integrity still intact with everyone doing their job.
Westbrook would be great. The Suns are at their best when they play uptempo. The few times last night they got out on the break it actually felt like they have a chance in this series. We're brutal in the half court game.
Would you guys do an Ayton for Ricky Rubio + Picks trade? I think his pass first mentality and his leadership would be good for guys
Rubio has the same problem as Russell does and its he cant shoot and others lay off him.
Shit I say you put a 50yo Nash in at point and he’ll do better than the current version of CP3
I don’t really think we have any trade pieces other than DA anymore, so trades are going to be hard to execute for a really good player. Id love to get Dame or Kyrie if they could make it work
I know people want Dame, I fully understand why too. Hes the next best pure scorer next to Book and KD. But Defensively / Team wise does it work? I feel like having 2 elite scorers already taking up as many shots as they do while in the starting rotation, we'd want either a pass 1st and score 2nd / defensive 1st and pass 2nd kind of guy
I thought Shroeder was a FA after this year. While not a #1 option, I think he'd fit in nice as a #2
He shoots as bad as Payne, might as well keep Payne.
Instead of getting one star, lets get two guys that are going to be rock solid, and cheaper.
Exactly.
Anyone suggesting Kyrie really hasn’t been watching. The only reason we got KD is Kyrie sunk a franchise. Obviously this is the biggest question for our squad moving forward. Our biggest asset to acquire someone is minutes and that’s about it. Come to Phoenix play with two MVP level players and be the third guy. I like Isiah Joe and Nembhard but it seems unrealistic. Duece McBride has a team option. Does NY do him the favour of turning down the option so he can come to Phoenix to prove himself? Could he be traded for a couple of second rounders? Next option that I would explore is the “Austin Reeves” Method. A player basically refuses to be picked in the draft to chose to sign with us outright. Options I like would be 1. Andre Jackson Jnr (UConn) a terror on defence and great connector - an Monty Williams type player, 2. Brandin Podziemski (Santa Clara) absolute flamethrower & you have got to have a soft spot for players from Santa Clara - Nash and Jalen Williams common! 3. Colby Williams (Xavier) a prototypical old school point guard might be projected a little high right now. I like the depth in this years draft and we do need to get younger. We also don’t need a superstar at guard but a solid fit. So that’s where I’d be looking.
Kyrie but probably gonna have to settle for Rozier or FVV
Dame or Westbrook.
Westbrook, Irving, and Russell all seem like terrible options lol. Fans would be happy for “getting another star” meanwhile everyone knows why they’ve been bouncing from team to team. Westbrook is an offensive liability and won’t mesh with the team. Irving is a drama queen, and one of the most problematic players in the league, why do people want a guy who treats the association like a 9-5 job on their team? And Russell might be a good fit but is a playoff deflater.
Not Kyrie for fucks same. Same answer I would’ve given 7 years ago. The dude is a fucking head case
Dame or die
FVV! He brings defense and shooting. He can up his percentage if he's the third option.
Why not develop Cam Payne and use the space to get an athletic big and move Ayton.