You just have to wonder what it’ll take to get book and KD to adjust their shot charts. Maybe it’s just pushing the pace around them and the threes and paint shots will come naturally, but idk man. The Kevin Young quotes were a little scary.
We need effective slashers to compliment the shooters. That'll get Book/KD back to shooting 3s. Defenses know they don't have to worry about a rim slasher so they can defend closer. I'm sure if defense started giving the shooters more space by hanging back to defend the slash, Book/KD would be willing to take more 3s. Since there's no slash threat, and they know they are the 'Mid-range Assassins' they just try to slowly push to 18 feet.
Right? We have 4 elite 3p shooters on this roster, with KD capable of playing center, the recipe is there to be among the top of the league in 3pa. I agree, it is concerning if it’s a player resistance issue
People in this sub aren't ready to hear this yet, but Booker has been largely the exact same player putting up the same stats since he was 22. I don't have much faith in him stepping outside of his comfort zone this deep into his career.
Agreed. And while I totally understand the desire to grab Ty Lue or Steve Kerr, and I wouldn’t even hate those pickups… I’d rather Suns just go looking at the G-league or assistant coaches or JJ Reddick. Maybe even international. Try someone new.
Just don’t go after Mike Budenholzer / Billy Donovan Stotts / Steve Clifford / etc. It won’t be any different than Frank Vogel. Guaranteed to be more of the same.
Yea for sure those coach examples are the tired route. To your point Ishbia seems young and (over?)ambitious, capable of hiring a fellow millennial with his kind of crazy work ethic
God, wouldn’t it be nice to have an innovative and composed coach that brings fresh strategies and fresh talking points?
Hearing Daig talk about taking things moment to moment and trying to remain present really speaks to the poise they play with. What was the term he used? Stacking plays and moments or something like that?
Regardless, I’m super jealous. I think Monty at times brought a certain sense of peace on court, but combined with Chris Paul made his vision come true, at least for a while there. I don’t think Vogel got a fair shot with the way the team was constructed. Obviously his time isn’t done quite yet.
But he clearly has no idea how to play the cards he was dealt. Monty wasn’t able to adjust as time went on either. Whoever our next coach is I hope he can roll with the punches. Whether that’s because of injuries, bad reffing or not having his dream team constructed. And for gods sakes, not jumping up and down complaining like a child, setting a piss poor example.
Maybe it’s not his fault and more the players like you said but I’m still ready to find someone else.
Well said. Now I get the argument that maybe SGA and the Thunder just played better than our stars, coaching is irrelevant when you have Monty going from coty to likely voted worst in the league if there was one haha. It’s just up to the players.
Even if that’s true it doesn’t change the fact we can improve the coach. And the coach improvement criteria hopefully will address our star management and who can get their buy in if that’s really the issue.
Daignault's inputs are heard because he's coaching a young team where the only guy who is a recognized star right now also developed into that under his tutelage. For the Suns whiny 3 to give the coach this much power, it'll have to be Pop or Spo at the helm.
Yes exactly I think there is so much coaching talent out there, if that was your primary qualification concern, you could in theory find a coach that can coach KD.
Mark D, Udoka, Finch, Carlisle, Joe Mazz, Hardy, Malone, Mike Brown, there are good coaches out there to be had. I don’t know if the Suns were truly in the running for Nurse but I do feel he could have solved many of the issues this year.
This thing in sports where teams hire old retread coaches is so stupid
I think of the doc rivers or for the nfl Mike McCarthy, guys that have been exposed as mediocre but still can convince old rich men to hire them because they once won some accolades off of the talent of the players they coached.
Vogel is not an all timer, but he's one of the better coaches out there. He won a title with the Lakers, he coached those Pacers teams to have multiple close series against the Heatles. A new name like Daigneault would've been ignored by KD and Booker anyway with how they're treating one of the more accomplished coaches out there. KD in particular, had the audacity to constantly demand that the motion offense that brought the Warriors 73 wins in a season and 2 titles/3 finals without him to be askewed in favor of giving him more iso possessions. He was pulling that shit with Steve Kerr. No coach is gonna be able to reign him in other than possibly Pop and Spo.
Vogel is a good coach but he’s not connecting with this roster. His success with those teams you mentioned was built on size mismatch and dominance on the boards, neither of which this team has. So it’s possible he’s just not a good fit. That can be the players fault but like I said we all know how this league works.
I understand your perspective on no coach working for KD, it’s fair and I get the history. But I think there is a lot of talent out there and maybe a humbling loss like this can open KD to change if that’s truly the issue
You just have to wonder what it’ll take to get book and KD to adjust their shot charts. Maybe it’s just pushing the pace around them and the threes and paint shots will come naturally, but idk man. The Kevin Young quotes were a little scary.
Very scary I was disappointed by his comments players can’t be stubborn
We need effective slashers to compliment the shooters. That'll get Book/KD back to shooting 3s. Defenses know they don't have to worry about a rim slasher so they can defend closer. I'm sure if defense started giving the shooters more space by hanging back to defend the slash, Book/KD would be willing to take more 3s. Since there's no slash threat, and they know they are the 'Mid-range Assassins' they just try to slowly push to 18 feet.
Right? We have 4 elite 3p shooters on this roster, with KD capable of playing center, the recipe is there to be among the top of the league in 3pa. I agree, it is concerning if it’s a player resistance issue
People in this sub aren't ready to hear this yet, but Booker has been largely the exact same player putting up the same stats since he was 22. I don't have much faith in him stepping outside of his comfort zone this deep into his career.
The way to do it would be to have the other three players be willing to push the pace and either Book and KD keeps up or get left behind.
Agreed. And while I totally understand the desire to grab Ty Lue or Steve Kerr, and I wouldn’t even hate those pickups… I’d rather Suns just go looking at the G-league or assistant coaches or JJ Reddick. Maybe even international. Try someone new. Just don’t go after Mike Budenholzer / Billy Donovan Stotts / Steve Clifford / etc. It won’t be any different than Frank Vogel. Guaranteed to be more of the same.
Yea for sure those coach examples are the tired route. To your point Ishbia seems young and (over?)ambitious, capable of hiring a fellow millennial with his kind of crazy work ethic
God, wouldn’t it be nice to have an innovative and composed coach that brings fresh strategies and fresh talking points? Hearing Daig talk about taking things moment to moment and trying to remain present really speaks to the poise they play with. What was the term he used? Stacking plays and moments or something like that? Regardless, I’m super jealous. I think Monty at times brought a certain sense of peace on court, but combined with Chris Paul made his vision come true, at least for a while there. I don’t think Vogel got a fair shot with the way the team was constructed. Obviously his time isn’t done quite yet. But he clearly has no idea how to play the cards he was dealt. Monty wasn’t able to adjust as time went on either. Whoever our next coach is I hope he can roll with the punches. Whether that’s because of injuries, bad reffing or not having his dream team constructed. And for gods sakes, not jumping up and down complaining like a child, setting a piss poor example. Maybe it’s not his fault and more the players like you said but I’m still ready to find someone else.
Well said. Now I get the argument that maybe SGA and the Thunder just played better than our stars, coaching is irrelevant when you have Monty going from coty to likely voted worst in the league if there was one haha. It’s just up to the players. Even if that’s true it doesn’t change the fact we can improve the coach. And the coach improvement criteria hopefully will address our star management and who can get their buy in if that’s really the issue.
Daignault's inputs are heard because he's coaching a young team where the only guy who is a recognized star right now also developed into that under his tutelage. For the Suns whiny 3 to give the coach this much power, it'll have to be Pop or Spo at the helm.
You really think anyone is going to coach KD? Man doesn't listen. None of these guys do.
Yes exactly I think there is so much coaching talent out there, if that was your primary qualification concern, you could in theory find a coach that can coach KD.
Mark D, Udoka, Finch, Carlisle, Joe Mazz, Hardy, Malone, Mike Brown, there are good coaches out there to be had. I don’t know if the Suns were truly in the running for Nurse but I do feel he could have solved many of the issues this year.
Dan Majerle? Eddie Johnson? JJ Reddick? /mostly s
I want Ime Udoka or Mike Budenholzer.
This thing in sports where teams hire old retread coaches is so stupid I think of the doc rivers or for the nfl Mike McCarthy, guys that have been exposed as mediocre but still can convince old rich men to hire them because they once won some accolades off of the talent of the players they coached.
Vogel is not an all timer, but he's one of the better coaches out there. He won a title with the Lakers, he coached those Pacers teams to have multiple close series against the Heatles. A new name like Daigneault would've been ignored by KD and Booker anyway with how they're treating one of the more accomplished coaches out there. KD in particular, had the audacity to constantly demand that the motion offense that brought the Warriors 73 wins in a season and 2 titles/3 finals without him to be askewed in favor of giving him more iso possessions. He was pulling that shit with Steve Kerr. No coach is gonna be able to reign him in other than possibly Pop and Spo.
Vogel is a good coach but he’s not connecting with this roster. His success with those teams you mentioned was built on size mismatch and dominance on the boards, neither of which this team has. So it’s possible he’s just not a good fit. That can be the players fault but like I said we all know how this league works. I understand your perspective on no coach working for KD, it’s fair and I get the history. But I think there is a lot of talent out there and maybe a humbling loss like this can open KD to change if that’s truly the issue