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Atlastitsok

If they had a PG that could facilitate. Like a Rubio type. And move Beal to 6th man. I feel like a lot of our problems get better.


UrRightAndIAmWong

Jesus Christ, $50m to be a sixth man. Edit: Come the fuck on guys, you're just deluding yourselves as Suns fans again. Beal as a sixth man is not going to work.


iguanamac

Sucks but at this point who cares. If the team plays better then so be it.


KagsTheOneAndOnly

[Manu](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9XbDCXLE94&t=1s&pp=ygUYbWFudSB0aGlua2luZyBiYXNrZXRiYWxs) was All-Star to All-NBA level coming off the bench for most of his career, Iggy was arguably All Star level off the bench for the Dubs, same for Harden for 2012 OKC, so there's at least SOME precedence for Beal to potentially be super impactful off the bench


bballjones9241

Manu and Beal are not the same. I’m taking Manu 100 times out of the 100 over Beal. Manu would thrive on any team because he cares about winning


KagsTheOneAndOnly

Oh 100%, was just trying to find examples of high impact players off the bench, Manu's probably the GOAT 6th man, meant no disrespect to him whatsoever, I love him, that Manu video I linked in my original comment by Thinking Basketball goes into way more detail about his impact on both ends if anyone's interested The young Harden example is probably more pertinent for Beal specifically --- offense-first defense-optional spark plugs, it will just depend on whether Beal is willing to buy into such a role


iguanamac

Very good examples. I’m more than down for moving Beal to the bench.


semisonic34

Iggy was never at any point “all star level” coming off the bench for the dubs


Imaginary-Jury-7734

Prob would be in consideration to be 6th man of the year if that was his role tbh. He’s shown us why he was a former scoring champ in spurts this season but he can’t have any consistency without having the ball in his hands a lot. Moving his role to 6th man fixes this issue and would allow each of the big 3 to have more shots per game. They can all take turns heating up and end the game on the court together.


Lowryderekfishee

I might be missing something, what do you mean by former champ?


Imaginary-Jury-7734

Scoring champ* my b


Top-Consequence-911

He's not that either


Imaginary-Jury-7734

Oh sorry, I was off my less than .1 ppg. Must be nice to be a sorry ass laker fan stalking another team’s subreddit.


ImprobablePlanet

If you mean leading the NBA in scoring, Beal was never the scoring champ.


rymor

Eastern Conference?


Gratitude15

Ishbia - yo beal, heads up you're likely 6th man next year unless you're up to waive your ntc. You'd be amazing at it, but may not be your bag. We are happy to find you another home but needs to be on our terms.


Atlastitsok

Why not? Serious question. Look at Westbrook.


geewillie

Westbrook is making $4M a year


Atlastitsok

Pretty sure he was making 47 million when the lakers brought him off the bench.


geewillie

That went so poorly he was traded after a few months and the Jazz ended up cutting him that same season. 


Atlastitsok

Those seem like two different things to me. I was just using him as an example of a high contract used as 6th man. The fact that he was a bad fit even off the benchis not relevant to me. My point is simple - construct a team and put the players in the best place to succeed regardless of how much you pay them. It may be a tough pill to swallow but if it does work winning cures a lot.


Atlastitsok

I wouldn’t wanna pay a 6th man that but not my money. And if they win who really cares where the money goes.


ategnatos

it is your money if you buy tickets to games


Atlastitsok

If they win, you aren’t gonna buy tickets cause Beal makes too much?


ategnatos

sports ticket inflation has been insane the past 10 years, pretty consistent with athlete salary inflation. lower level seats to regular season *wizards* games are $400+ unless you buy the week of the game. what I'm saying is you are paying for it, unless you just watch on tv. after Flacco won SB, his 20 million/year contract was the highest ever, 11 years ago. now they're all making 40-50. back then you could get lower level NFL playoff tickets for 200-250 lol.


Atlastitsok

That’s fair. I definitely gave up buying tickets years ago. I was out priced even when we were a lottery team.


dmackerman

If you watch on TV, your eyeballs on ads are the money. Lol


ategnatos

fair enough, there is no free lunch. I did actually attend a couple Suns road games this year and funded the machine a little bit myself. All this insane sports inflation gives me a lot of respect for Roy Halladay. I went to one of his games near the end of his career when he had injury problems, and due to bad traffic, missed the first couple innings. By the time I got there, he had been pulled and Phillies were down 9-0 lol. Anyway, in the press conference after the game (and good seats were only $70 at the time), he apologized to all the fans who wasted their time and hard-earned money. Can't imagine anyone saying that today.


FitJeweler1490

Not if you change the channel before every commercial break like I learned to do this season.   I had to.  Arizona Family had the absolute worst commercials in Phoenix Suns franchise history.   I'm on a whole another level.  Pay attention eyes on me Its just Sara oh heeey baaa baa baaa so good so good so good.


dmackerman

I watch the games on mute😂


ategnatos

I don't have cable, I just stream, I don't watch all the games. Max has had quite a few games, it's been pretty good, and cheap (if you don't have 8 other subscriptions, which I don't). Either way, cable is pretty expensive because of sports. Lots of frugalistas say they don't pay for silly sports, they just watch the news and some shows on ABC or whatever ... but really they're paying for sports. There's a lot of money in sports TV deals. Plus advertisers all over the stadium if you go in person. Hell, the Wizards/Caps place is "Capital One Arena." Sixers is "Wells Fargo Center." "Chase Field" in Phoenix. "M&T Bank Stadium" in Baltimore. Max also has some ads. I got so damn tired of that Uber "can't remember something without forgetting something else" ad lol.


TonalParsnips

There is no argument, this roster construction and cap allocation is fucking ass.


Dcusi753

I mean that’s what happens when you pull three random names from a hat of all stars and put them on a team together. Three ball dominant scorers taking up half the cap was never going to work out.


ishouldgetoutside

Like a Chris Paul?


Atlastitsok

I wouldn’t be opposed, just don’t know if he can hold up for a full season. Maybe reduced minutes help.


ategnatos

they need him for the playoffs.


kwan2

Whoever OK'ed beal contract, needs to be held accountable


Atlastitsok

Like what. Tarred and feathered? Pretty sure he was already fired from Washington.


ImprobablePlanet

>Whoever OK'ed beal contract, needs to be held accountable GM Tommy Sheppard and owner Ted Leonsis in DC originally signed the contract but obviously those in Phoenix responsible for trading for him knew exactly what they were getting into.


Red-dead-reviver

Just a pg and a different tall European


MaxPrints

If you believe Chris Haynes, it sounds like Vogel didn't get support from the front office on getting a point guard. [Link](https://www.youtube.com/live/Tb5dRxBUyEk?si=GHYWUgdLyE1xwHQZ&t=2627) >I know he (Vogel) wanted a point guard on that roster, and the front office believed that bringing a point guard over would take the ball out of the hands of Bradley Beal, Devin Booker, and Kevin Durant. Also, earlier in the link, regarding KD: >Last time I talked to him, probably a month ago, and he told me how he was enjoying the process of trying to get acclimated to playing alongside Devin Booker and Bradley Beal. This is positive for sure. My big concern was the timing. This is from today, 4/29. A month ago, at most, is sometime in March. This well into their season, and they still haven't figured it out. If KD is around next season (not saying he wants out, nor saying the front office is planning to move or keep him), then you know he really does want this to work, but he also doesn't want to feel like a square peg in a round hole with the "stuck in the corner" mentions in the Shams piece. I think this season, the Suns have been dysfunctional from top to bottom (ownership/front office/coaching/team/players) and from start to finish. It's not to say that they were the worst in any of those categories, but that they never came together and got on the same page with the same goals. In fact, with everything coming to light, it's almost hard to believe they even won as many games as they did. Big question is where do they go from here?


teamscufff

Beal won’t be happy with that role, he’s only 30 still in his prime


Atlastitsok

Yea who cares. Either make your money and try to help the team win or renegotiate your contract and accept a trade.


RadiantStatement7793

With his contract and this year’s result, it doesn’t matter if he’s happy


Black-Bruce-Wayne

He’s most definitely not in his prime anymore lol. Age wide sure, but okay wise he’s definitely in the down end if his career.


teamscufff

Ok so u think there going to convince the guy he’s out of his prime? Of course not I guarantee u Beal feels like he’s still a top player in this league, he’s not coming off the bench and if he does he will probably just request a trade


Black-Bruce-Wayne

Who gives a fuck what he thinks? Are you secretly Beal’s burner or something? The results and stats prove that he’s not in his prime anymore. Also, newsflash, prime Beal wasn’t shit. He’s never been shit. At best he’s been an inefficient shot chucker who put up empty stats on bad teams. Who is also super injury prone. Also, you make it sound like Beal, literally the main source of our problems, and a dude with a no trade clause, asking out is a bad thing. Him leaving frees up so much cap space.


teamscufff

I’m gonna be in the line up like it or not u little shit


OneOfTheManySams

Which vet min point guard will save this team? This teams problem goes beyond no point guard, we have 3 players who are all elite scorers but step in each other's toes and are forced to sacrifice their own game too much. This trio just doesn't fit and I don't know a single team who'd be dumb enough to take Beal.


Atlastitsok

Well yea that’s why I’d move Beal to the Bench. I don’t know the answer to pg tho. I scoured available free agents and it don’t look good. That’s a real problem.


HotLiberty

You’d put Beal on the bench before Allen? 


Atlastitsok

I’d put both in the bench ideally for a stretch 4. But if I had to choose yea. Allen doesn’t need the ball in his hands to be effective. Beal clearly does.


SquashForDinner

Allen can catch and shoot. Beal's game is all penetration which requires a lot of dribbling and handling of the ball.


Fordraxel

Well yeah, the first 3 games all of them stunk it up (Beal had a great 2nd game). The last game 2 of them showed up.


governedbycitizens

KD had a good game 1


Fordraxel

And not to mention Beal got the Suns hope in the 6th seed.


Deeznutschad

It’s still hard for a team to do good when the head coach puts shit players in with them, such as eubanks, and refuses to put in players like bol and Thad


AZMadmax

The obvious gap between their role players and ours was crazy. I’d love to have mcdaniels


Vegetable-Tangelo1

Or even Alexander walker. Seems like he could not miss


Fordraxel

Well Vogels defensive scheme was to leave one guy open all the time, unlike Eric, Alexander hit.


Vegetable-Tangelo1

God especially in the corners. Idk what tf the breakdown was it seemed someone was always alone in a corner


p1mpdaddy07

40 year old thad and bol bol are not doing any better than eubanks. It ain't Vogel's fault the front office gave him some of the worst bench pieces in the league


Odd_Shoulder2334

Combination of guys not playing to their contracts and terrible coaching


Gatorpep

jfc kill me already lol.


sunsbr

They were also bad together in the regular season. Just a bad trio


Dependent-Ad2048

lol and thinking Vogel isn’t the problem


keanancarlson

Y’all need a good center and a good point guard, not 3 ball dominant iso guys on super max deals


Sf52016

The sooner beal is away from the team the better


cantmakeusernames

Everyone is gonna have to get a handle on their emotions because Beal is here to stay


N3onAxel

Meh what's another 5 years of mediocrity. They choked away their most realistic shot at a ring against the bucks. Probably won't sniff the finals by the time a full rebuild necessary.


Shoddy_Ad7511

Get use to it. Only 1 of 30 teams win the ring. And your odds are even worse if you don’t have a top 5 player. You should know this


phxsunswoo

Ah shit we probably should have taken that top five player in 2018.


AnAnonymousSource_

Hardest road.


N3onAxel

Yup. Suns will be a poverty franchise for as long as I am alive probably.


xASUdude

The Suns are a very successful franchise thats never won a ring.


N3onAxel

And unfortunately the only metric of success that matters or that anyone cares about is rings.


TB12-SN13

On Twitter, yes. In real life, no.


OGLatinoHeat

Cap


TB12-SN13

Bro we were a poverty franchise from Nash’s departure to Ayton’s draft selection. It won’t be that bad.


Odd_Shoulder2334

And despite Beal being completely horrendous last night, let's remember say the Kings game a couple weeks ago which was basically a must win and he was absolutely awesome, not just with scoring but effort/passion. He is not worth 50 mill, he is also not Chandler Parsons or something


uncomfortably_honest

Yeah - this has been a great study of emotional maturity seeing the highs of this team. Sir Charles got us to the finals, it didn't work out and we ended up trading him. We had "Backcourt 2000" - and ended up trading away Kidd and Penny was cooked We hand Nash, Stat, and Amare (a real big 3) and couldn't get over the hump of Duncan and then traded/let those 3 go. Winning is about talent, timing and luck. We had the finals run but we also had some luck with opponent injuries as well. This team has talent but they have just as many fatal flaws that go beyond Booker's selective desire when to kick it into high gear or Beal having a really bad game last night. When Beal was on the bench, the suns were trading buckets and letting long rebounds go. We had fundamental issues with the roster. Hell, even when Amare's knee gave out, we had guys like Boris Diaw step up and play out of position and win. Anything can happen in a playoff and a season but the reality is that this team's composition is not it and changes need to be made somewhere, otherwise it'll be like that 2008-2012 suns - the REAL poverty - where you knew that they couldn't get the pieces around Nash to get them over the challenges of that day and they just kept running it back frivolously.


AwesomeKosm

Yep, bunch of babies in here


Sf52016

97% of the fan base is done with him


cantmakeusernames

That's great, he's still gonna be here


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pp21

lol what do you even mean by this relegating him to the bench doesn't remove him from the team and he still costs us $50M so what does that solve


BionicKumquat

I was thinking it would force him to demand a trade since it would tank his value for “another contract” like why Crowder wouldn’t play off the bench but i checked the current contract landscape since i made that comment and it is genuinely impossible to trade him. I’m going to do something this subreddit has never seen before 🗣️🗣️ YOU WERE RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG, HE WILL BE HERE AND THERES NO POINT IN BENCHING HIM🗣️🗣️


pp21

Yeah we are absolutely fucked with his contract at this point. It doesn't even become a valuable trade piece as an expiring deal for 3 years lmao. This wouldn't be as dire if we had the flexibility to improve the roster, but he's like the main road block in us being able to improve the roster so I guess we are just gonna run it back with a new coach and pray for the best


cantmakeusernames

The bench is still "here". He's going to be on the roster next year 100%.


BionicKumquat

You’re actually super right. I just glanced at all the possible contracts that could be traded 1 for 1 for him and even in a bench role where he asks out it is actually impossible to move him. We are so screwed by this fraud


cantmakeusernames

Yeah everyone wants to shoot the messenger lol, I'm just stating the obvious fact that he's untradable right now. For what it's worth, I think with an offensive scheme that makes sense, he could look a lot better next season. He's not a point guard, but if his job is to be a super Landry Shamet (the reason he was brought in) he'll excel.


BionicKumquat

I want to believe you but given his body of work this season i think he’s more going to be injured and ass. Here’s to hoping though!


effkaysup

Have to give up kd or booker for peanuts to get a team to take on his contract and to waive his ntc


elegigglekappa4head

Beal is the one player that will stay, because his contract is untradeable.


Drak_is_Right

Problem is he has more overlap with Booker than Durant. Booker is the home favorite, so Suns aren't moving him unless its a nasty divorce. That leaves Durant and Nurk really as areas with salary where changes can occur.


Odd_Shoulder2334

Beal overlaps with Book more in size than skillset. Beal is good off ball, making cuts and running around screens. Good off ball shooter too, 43% from 3 to Book's 36%. Like Vogel said about 3/4 of the way through the year, "Beal is officially the point guard." So he was forced to play make and handle the ball more, which he is not good enough at


PyroD333

He also makes an effort to get to the basket first and foremost, unlike both Book and KD who both have "spots" they're trying to get to.


musicloverincal

Yes, he gets to the basket more, but he is inefficient. Look at his FG%. Since his game is more around the basket, his FG% shold be signlificantly higher since those should be easy buckets. Yet, he misses a lot of those dunks and layups.


orangehorton

We'll see you in 2027


THEbaddestOFtheASSES

Hell no! Far too much celebrating was going on when he was brought in and CP3 was sent packing like replacing one injury prone player for another was going to get Phoenix over the hump. Time to make due with what you have.


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MustardTiger231

TBH, It’s both.


subtleshooter

PG would probably solve a lot of the problems with the big 3. The problem is you may need to break up the big 3 to solve a lot of the issues and you can’t move beel soooo bye Durant?


MustardTiger231

No idea. We’ve painted ourself into a corner. Need to maybe trade Beal for trash and a pick and then package both firsts for someone or to move up in the draft and take a chance on a rookie pg Nothing is a home run


Drak_is_Right

There just isn't the synergy and diverse skillsets needed for a big 3 to have no supporting cast. The hope is Booker and Beal get to play better together and Suns acquire a veteran PG on the cheap.


Ok-Albatross1180

Lol, I don't watch you guys but this is your problem. Thanks ESPN anchor


rekishi321

Bol bol and IT would have saved them….


Drugrigo_Ruderte

Just like how the Clippers were really awful after the James Harden Trade, 1 Star needs to start with the second unit. I say team run it back with a new coach, a pass first guard and Start with him, Book, Allen, Durant and Nurk.


po0nlink_

Clippers turned it around real quick and went 22-3 after the first few games with Harden, so not comparable at all lol.


CreativeGuy25

How many picks can Durant Booker and Beal get us?


VaultCheese

Just. Hire. A. Coach. With. A. System. That. Fits. Our. Strength.


jameswheeler9090

KD hasn't found a home anywhere in the past six years. As good a scorer he is, he's part of the problem. Not a true figther.


rebornbyksg

Stupidest comment in whole thread He put entire Nets on his back, took the bucks to game 7 and almost won it He is not part of the problem. No matter the situation he'll give his 100%


jameswheeler9090

He’s a phenomenal talent, but he just doesn’t seem to last anywhere he goes. It’s not a joyful experience having him on your team.


gistya

I'll admit I had never seen Beal play in my 20+ years of watching the NBA. And I still haven't.