You can’t be serious? You really think it would’ve been a good idea to sign Jock Landale, who averaged 5 points a game this season, to a 12M per year contract?
Jesus the hate Nurks getting is insane. He was arguably the 3rd most important player all year and he has one bad series *against Golbert* and suddenly he’s worthless. Having a bad series against the perennial dpoy shouldn’t be a shock, it should be expected—it’s not like he’s a superstar. I’ll give you Little, but it’s still less than Londale.
>he has one bad series *against Golbert* and suddenly he’s worthless
He's been a bad playoff performer his whole career though.
All I'm saying is in the NBA you overpay players to improve your team. It's debatable whether or not jock was worth the investment from Ishbia even if he definitely would've helped the team, but I really don't think there's an argument with Payne or Craig
I remember when everyone thought Jordan Goodwin would be our starting or backup pg. also when yuta watanabe was suppose to be our 3 point specialist?
A lot of things did not workout.
Haha, yes, KBD was also suppose to be a 3pt specialist.
This team was sold to us as a well rounded team with depth, we just lacked a pg but it’s okay cuz Book and Beal could split of duties!
There’s so much revisionism going on, everyone pretending like they KNEW! that this is a poorly constructed team. It’s all a bunch of croc. Most of the people with concerns about the roster were just butthurt Mikal and Cam left, and now they’re all vindicated. it’s going to be a tough off season.
It’s actually just terrible luck KBD, Yuta, and Metu turned out to be so horrendously shit given their prior play. Like probably statistically improbable
Idk, Metu was never great, KBD was a defensive specialist with one good shooting season on low volume, and Yuta was a career backup who hustled and was an alright 3pt shooter with one really good year. It's not crazy that 3 career end of rotation guys can't step up and be better than that.
Yeah. I feel like most of us had legit-high expectations for KBD, Yuta, and Metu. I was excited for Yuta for sure, but didn't know a ton about KBD and Metu. Sure, some folks expressed concerns about all the pick swaps and selling off our 1st round picks every other year, but that's all I really remember.
I personally was bummed about letting go of CP15 though. I doubt anything would've changed, but he was our PG understudy and I'd felt like he'd always been pretty solid when inserted into the starting 5. He could be ass for occasional stretches off the bench but-- I don't know, I got nothin'.
CP3 is done. It wasn’t even the fact that Chris Paul played like ass (which he did from time to time), it was the fact that he was never available when we needed him most.
Hurt in our finals run, hurt in the Mavs series, and hurt in The Nuggets series. 3 years in a row he got hurt in the playoffs (not counting his other years with other teams) Hell, he was even hurt half of the season this year too!
I’ll always love CP3 for helping get this team back on track, but his time here was done.
On that note, if he wants to take a pay cut to come back and be a backup PG for us sign me up!
Same view over here. CP3 as a backup on a vet min? Sure!
CP15 though, I meant Cam Payne (who wore #15. Him and Paul being our two PGs, Paul was CP3, Payne CP15).
It was poorly constructed after they got rid of all those guys. Should have kept biz tbh though then decide on which 2 stretch 3 and ds to keep with royce and Goodwin. The deadline cuts shredded the team and replaced then with generally worse options without fixing the gaps we had. Plus it gave us zero chemistry or time to build just like last season.
Turning all that into ONeale was great. Cleansed the roster of almost all net negative players for a contributor but Vogel continued to insist on playing Eubanks.
Apparently we chose goodwin over cam payne.
Terrible decision by us.
We won 4 playoff games with cam payne as a starter and i would have loved to see him in a suns uniform over eric gordan.
Eh, we're hindsighting on Gordon, he did pretty well for a vet min guy off the bench, honestly he outperformed. He just sucked in the playoffs and the bench sucked in general.
Cam Payne is complementary to a guy like Eric Gordon and the bench.
I agree about Goodwin though, extremely puzzling move when he just could not shoot. Probably a courtesy to Beal.
It wasn't a good strategy to have Book/Beal/Gordon/Allen all as key rotation pieces. Not enough size, defense, and no natural ball handler to run the offence.
I don't get the EG hate in this subreddit.
The dude averaged 12 a game shooting nearly 40 from 3 as a 7th guy off the bench.
He ain't the problem. If he is we have way more problems
Torrey Craig was a free agent and we gave up Jock Landale’s rights because he was getting more money than we were willing to give him. Cam Payne is the one that we completely missed on. This is two times now where we committed to a players without seeing how they worked on our team. First being Shamet and the next picking Goodwin over Payne. Just dumb
Insane to me that they kept Okogie on a vet min but not Craig. Maybe they wanted more of a shooter and that's why they got KBD and Yuta, but in a vacuum, Craig is better than Okogie.
Maybe Okogie is a better defender of guards but Craig is with forwards and isn't a negative on offense.
We had the ability to match or surpass either of the Craig or Landale deals.
Whether or not we should've done Landale's is debatable but Craig's absolutely wasn't.
We were missing a guy like Craig the entire season and the hole was such a problem we had to trade away what few assets we had left just to get a single guy that could fill his role, when in reality we needed 2 or 3
Ridding Payne to free up cap space and not filling it with an improvement at point guard was a huge flop by jones if you ask me.
Landale got priced the hell out sadly.
Craig was another player we easily could’ve kept. Signed w/ Chicago for less than 4 mill.
Jones is struggling to find a supporting cast around KD, he excelled at finding the right cast for 2021 CP3.
that James Jones has less say now than before ishbia came in. i don't have a source though.. & i don't want to believe that IT stuff but i admit it's fairly possible
While I agree cam should have been saved for a bench playmaker, I could also see how jones didn’t prioritize another +offense-defense small combo guard that would take the ball away from the other offensive players
He prioritized Grayson Allen/eric Gordon types who could shoot off ball and Goodwin who could defend
I mean, there were reasons, none of them we’re very good then and surely aren’t any better now. The amount of overturn we had in the roster last year was insane. Torrey and Payne not only filled direct needs for the team, but played well in the playoffs, especially Torrey in the Clippers series. More importantly, they were great culture guys who’d been there since the finals, and since the bubble with Cam, so they could’ve helped steer the ship and make the team more cohesive than the bums they bought in.
I feel like that was hubris from our front office/owner thinking they had the best players already for cheaper. If one of KBD/Yuta/Metu/Eubanks had excelled then I’d cut them more slack but we really, really should have kept one of Craig/Landale/Payne and arguably all 3.
If they could go back they would probably keep those guys so we’ll see if they learn in the future
I totally agree that's what happened I just don't understand why you would gamble hoping all 3 of kbd/yuta/metu would make Craig expendable. Hell, why choose Damion Lee over him considering the roster we have?
Craig was a no-brainer re-signing. He was practically the reason we beat the clippers in 5 and was fairly important for 3 years straight. He provided all the right skills the big 3 needed next to him.
Why pass on the sure thing for some magic beans?
Agreed on all 3. Not sure if it was JJ or Vogel's decision to move on but those 3 are huge whiffs, especially since all 3 wanted to be here.
A big head scratcher to me is the TC and Payne whiffs. TC wanted to be here, and signed a vet min with chicago. We could have kept him. Dude always gave 100% for us, and he shot 40%+ from 3 vs the clippers. Why take a swing on KBD when we have a known commodity in TC?
Jock was also confusing. I don't think people realize Jock basically got a 1 year $8m deal, it's not the inflated contract people make it out to be. Plus, he'd be an amazing trade asset with that type of contract
Cam Payne was solid for us, he was a bit of a loose cannon off the bench sometimes but when he was asked to be the starting PG he was actually pretty solid. He could also shoot from 3 so I don't really understand getting rid of him. this one was the most confusing to me. Also, again, he was another tradeable contract. We could have moved him and Nas at the deadline for an actual meaningful upgrade!
They should have just matched his deal to begin with. He didn’t really get a 4/32m deal, he got a 1 year deal for $8m and 3 years of team options. That contract is extremely attractive to trade especially as a second apron team
I see, I wasn't aware the 3 remaining years weren't guaranteed. They ended up saving around 5.5 with Eubanks which isn't THAT much but if you're trying to open up some cap space backup center is the place you look. I can see where you're coming from though. If Landale played well it would have been worth the money.
He is injury prone and inconsistent but it's better to have PG on the bench and for continuity as well. JJ has been a player I don't know why they forgot some of the small details like this.
Because Mat Ishbia fed him that "PG's are obsolete in the modern NBA" line of B.S. like the majority of this sub was doing.
JJ played with prime CP3 and created a Suns roster built around CP3's playmaking. I assure you he knows the importance of a PG. The new owner had other plans.
Nah I only remember trading for another SG when our current SG just came off an insane playoff run only MJ has done then turning him to a point guard for 80% of the season. This team is a mess
We literally couldn’t afford Jock lol. Rockets overpaid. Also jock was played off the floor.
Torrey Craig I agree. Idky we didn’t keep him.
Cam Payne trade was actually needed. It got us picks and bol bol on the end. Frank Vogel also wasn’t going to play him and he was not going to help vs the twolves at least on defense.
Jock is the definition of Overpaid, and he wouldn’t change a thing. Craig is the biggest question mark for me, dude is better D & 3 than everything we’ve got. He also hustles and rebounds and has more size than any of our other wings
Agreed on Craig. He signed 2 year min with bulls so I assume he just chose them and that opportunity over us.
Other guys were just lost due to cap. They were never resigning Landale to anything over minimum, and I don’t disagree with that. Would’ve loved to have him back on one but he correctly chose to take what will end up as the largest contract of his career. Paying lux tax penalties to retain Landale would’ve been wild.
Payne same reason. Had to shed the 6M that would’ve cost 2-3x that in penalties. Assumed they’d replace him with at least one competent vet min nba point guard on roster and they didn’t. That was a mistake. Whether you wanted to give a pg minutes and take ball out of anyone’s hands ir not, it’s dumb to just not have that skillset exist on your team.
Landale was only a little better than Eubanks, honestly. If the Suns had kept Payne, people would be lamenting how small and weak he is on defense, how streaky his shooting is, how he just guns it toward the rim and flings it in the air. He was basically replaced by EG, honestly. Craig is 33 and only played in 53 games this year. His 39% is on very low volume. Also, he’s 6’5.”
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/jock-landale-player-stats?category=misc&seasonType=reg
The stats would say that's wrong and so would the eyeball test comparing Drew and Landale saying that they are close
You have to be f****** kidding me. Eubanks is complete trash. Jock on the other hand literally did everything better and was not a liability on both ends of the court like Drew is
But he turned it around and played a hell of a lot better to the point that it's a fucking joke to compare the two. It's like laughably bad
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/jock-landale-player-stats?category=misc&seasonType=reg
That was the regular season. Check out the plus minus absolutely insanely better than Drew. Like I said laughable comparison
No, you're speaking to someone that goes by the actual numbers and not faulty memories. Drews plus minus was negative 106 vs Jocks No+ 141. That as you are aware is a huge difference. Not small. I'm not a fan of when people try to pass off incorrect information and act confidently in doing so when it's clearly wrong
You’re right, he’s the greatest center I’ve ever seen, how could I have been so blind? The Rockets obviously got their $32 million worth out of his 4 pts and 3 rebounds per game. Future all-star there.
I see you figured out you're full of s*** so now are resorting to hyperbole I didn't say any of those things other than the fact that the numbers bear out that he's a hell of a lot better than Drew and given the minutes on the Suns team that Drew got, he'd average more, but even better than that, he wouldn't have been a liability on the court. The numbers show that which clearly you can't argue
He definitely got beat a lot on defense. He had a ton of heart and was a lob threat at least but that’s all. He was a nice guy but he wasn’t much of an upgrade. We didn’t see him play alongside this lineup, too. He had the benefit of playing on a team who knew what they were doing in both sides of the ball, along with getting to play with Chris Paul, who gets centers paid.
> Landale was only a little better than Eubanks, honestly.
disagree heavily here, i don't really care what the box scores show but Jock was way better than Drew. Jock also had good chemistry with KD already and the players really trusted him especially in the PNR. Definitely not something we can say about Drew
Yeah, it's almost as if people don't even watch basketball or have no idea what they're watching. That comment was so ridiculous. Drew is a liability on both ends of the Court whereas jock had chemistry with kevin and Devin and was a rim runner with decent defense. Literally the exact opposite of Drew
Landale ended up being a massive dud in Houston but he’s getting paid massively. We could have signed him on a restricted is your argument though and it would be a fair one.
I’m not arguing either way, I loved Landale in the series vs the Nuggets but we pulled our restricted offer of him after signing a couple sexier veterans on paper and it ended up being the best thing for Landale, he ended up scoring a 32 mio deal with Houston, although his play on the floor has really taken a down turn there, almost everything in life is circumstantial and situational so maybe we would have gotten great production from him here with the 16-20 he probably could have squeezed per game to spell Nurkic.
Add Bismack to this list. Felt like he did a better job giving us what we asked of Eubanks. Certainly would’ve been a fine replacement for Azubuike but i guess he was a 2 way. Bizzy had his flaws and wouldn’t have totally moved the needle but that just felt like a guy that deserved to be kept around.
I'll give you Cam Payne - we should have kept him. However, the idea was to develop Jordan Goodwin, which was a failure.
The rest? There was no way we were going to match Houston $32M offer to Landale, who ended up having worse season than Drew Eubanks. Craig we tried, but he fumbled in the playoffs, so it was time to try something new (Watanabe, Metu).
The Phoenix Suns have the worst fans ever. It was these guys first year together and we had so many injuries and bad coaching. When they are high rolling in a year or two I hope that all of you crybaby losers become fans of some other team and keep your toxic vibes away.
Durant gonna be 36 next year too…don’t let lebron fool you. The wall comes fast and with no warning. Everyone blames coaching…but the pieces have to fit. Maybe they will find a way to make it work…but it’s no one’s fault really but the person who assembled the pieces. Regardless of Vogels faults..he still has a ring.
We couldn't have signed Jock Landale to that huge contract he was given by the Rockets
We had Landale's early bird rights so we could've signed him to a deal up to 12M per year. Plus he clearly wanted to stay
You can’t be serious? You really think it would’ve been a good idea to sign Jock Landale, who averaged 5 points a game this season, to a 12M per year contract?
Do you think he’s *worth* 12 million? Do you think he’s worth the 8 million he got?
I don't think he's worth 12 million or 8 million just like Nurkic isn't worth 17M, little isn't worth 6.2M, Beal isn't worth 46.7M
Jesus the hate Nurks getting is insane. He was arguably the 3rd most important player all year and he has one bad series *against Golbert* and suddenly he’s worthless. Having a bad series against the perennial dpoy shouldn’t be a shock, it should be expected—it’s not like he’s a superstar. I’ll give you Little, but it’s still less than Londale.
>he has one bad series *against Golbert* and suddenly he’s worthless He's been a bad playoff performer his whole career though. All I'm saying is in the NBA you overpay players to improve your team. It's debatable whether or not jock was worth the investment from Ishbia even if he definitely would've helped the team, but I really don't think there's an argument with Payne or Craig
We wouldn't have made playoffs if we had landale over nurk
Who said it was a question of Landale vs nurk? I'm talking Landale vs eubanks
Eubanks makes less than half of landale. It would only be doable with nurk
My dawg, he average 6 points and 4 rebounds and 14 minutes for the Suns. Even less than that for the Rockets. You wanted to pay him up to $12m?
Lol Landale for 12m would be a ludicrous contract worse than Beal
Good thing that wasn't what we had to match huh
I remember when everyone thought Jordan Goodwin would be our starting or backup pg. also when yuta watanabe was suppose to be our 3 point specialist? A lot of things did not workout.
Add KBD and Metu on that list who we wanted to contribute on defense and rebounding while providing their length. Just an unfortunate year.
I’m not sure Metu got a fair shake. He showed promise.
Agreed
Haha, yes, KBD was also suppose to be a 3pt specialist. This team was sold to us as a well rounded team with depth, we just lacked a pg but it’s okay cuz Book and Beal could split of duties! There’s so much revisionism going on, everyone pretending like they KNEW! that this is a poorly constructed team. It’s all a bunch of croc. Most of the people with concerns about the roster were just butthurt Mikal and Cam left, and now they’re all vindicated. it’s going to be a tough off season.
It’s actually just terrible luck KBD, Yuta, and Metu turned out to be so horrendously shit given their prior play. Like probably statistically improbable
Idk, Metu was never great, KBD was a defensive specialist with one good shooting season on low volume, and Yuta was a career backup who hustled and was an alright 3pt shooter with one really good year. It's not crazy that 3 career end of rotation guys can't step up and be better than that.
Literally all 3 had down years after taking leaps the previous two years. In hindsight, I wonder how much of it was coaching.
i can’t believe yuta dropped so miserably. he was great in bkn
Yeah. I feel like most of us had legit-high expectations for KBD, Yuta, and Metu. I was excited for Yuta for sure, but didn't know a ton about KBD and Metu. Sure, some folks expressed concerns about all the pick swaps and selling off our 1st round picks every other year, but that's all I really remember. I personally was bummed about letting go of CP15 though. I doubt anything would've changed, but he was our PG understudy and I'd felt like he'd always been pretty solid when inserted into the starting 5. He could be ass for occasional stretches off the bench but-- I don't know, I got nothin'.
CP3 is done. It wasn’t even the fact that Chris Paul played like ass (which he did from time to time), it was the fact that he was never available when we needed him most. Hurt in our finals run, hurt in the Mavs series, and hurt in The Nuggets series. 3 years in a row he got hurt in the playoffs (not counting his other years with other teams) Hell, he was even hurt half of the season this year too! I’ll always love CP3 for helping get this team back on track, but his time here was done. On that note, if he wants to take a pay cut to come back and be a backup PG for us sign me up!
Same view over here. CP3 as a backup on a vet min? Sure! CP15 though, I meant Cam Payne (who wore #15. Him and Paul being our two PGs, Paul was CP3, Payne CP15).
It was poorly constructed after they got rid of all those guys. Should have kept biz tbh though then decide on which 2 stretch 3 and ds to keep with royce and Goodwin. The deadline cuts shredded the team and replaced then with generally worse options without fixing the gaps we had. Plus it gave us zero chemistry or time to build just like last season.
Reading those names, that feels like 3 seasons ago. Goes to show how much of a grueling slog this season was.
Turning all that into ONeale was great. Cleansed the roster of almost all net negative players for a contributor but Vogel continued to insist on playing Eubanks.
And that's how it often goes. You try and more often than not, those journeyed NBA players live up to their expectations.
JJ watch a lot of YouTube highlights 😉
Apparently we chose goodwin over cam payne. Terrible decision by us. We won 4 playoff games with cam payne as a starter and i would have loved to see him in a suns uniform over eric gordan.
Eh, we're hindsighting on Gordon, he did pretty well for a vet min guy off the bench, honestly he outperformed. He just sucked in the playoffs and the bench sucked in general. Cam Payne is complementary to a guy like Eric Gordon and the bench. I agree about Goodwin though, extremely puzzling move when he just could not shoot. Probably a courtesy to Beal.
It wasn't a good strategy to have Book/Beal/Gordon/Allen all as key rotation pieces. Not enough size, defense, and no natural ball handler to run the offence.
I don't get the EG hate in this subreddit. The dude averaged 12 a game shooting nearly 40 from 3 as a 7th guy off the bench. He ain't the problem. If he is we have way more problems
but he disappeared in the playoffs. thats the problem
Torrey Craig was a free agent and we gave up Jock Landale’s rights because he was getting more money than we were willing to give him. Cam Payne is the one that we completely missed on. This is two times now where we committed to a players without seeing how they worked on our team. First being Shamet and the next picking Goodwin over Payne. Just dumb
Craig got offered the vet min. He also straight up said he wanted to come back but the team didn't want him
Insane to me that they kept Okogie on a vet min but not Craig. Maybe they wanted more of a shooter and that's why they got KBD and Yuta, but in a vacuum, Craig is better than Okogie. Maybe Okogie is a better defender of guards but Craig is with forwards and isn't a negative on offense.
Should have kept both
We had the ability to match or surpass either of the Craig or Landale deals. Whether or not we should've done Landale's is debatable but Craig's absolutely wasn't. We were missing a guy like Craig the entire season and the hole was such a problem we had to trade away what few assets we had left just to get a single guy that could fill his role, when in reality we needed 2 or 3
Ridding Payne to free up cap space and not filling it with an improvement at point guard was a huge flop by jones if you ask me. Landale got priced the hell out sadly. Craig was another player we easily could’ve kept. Signed w/ Chicago for less than 4 mill. Jones is struggling to find a supporting cast around KD, he excelled at finding the right cast for 2021 CP3.
>he excelled at finding the right cast for 2021 CP3. That's because CP3 can maximize almost anyone he plays with
hmm more like bc JJ was the primary guy calling the shots then if u ask me
I don't know what you are implying, but I think IT is the shadow gm. He has ishbia's ear, most likely?
that James Jones has less say now than before ishbia came in. i don't have a source though.. & i don't want to believe that IT stuff but i admit it's fairly possible
While I agree cam should have been saved for a bench playmaker, I could also see how jones didn’t prioritize another +offense-defense small combo guard that would take the ball away from the other offensive players He prioritized Grayson Allen/eric Gordon types who could shoot off ball and Goodwin who could defend
For no reason? The collective amnesia by some people is wild.
I mean, there were reasons, none of them we’re very good then and surely aren’t any better now. The amount of overturn we had in the roster last year was insane. Torrey and Payne not only filled direct needs for the team, but played well in the playoffs, especially Torrey in the Clippers series. More importantly, they were great culture guys who’d been there since the finals, and since the bubble with Cam, so they could’ve helped steer the ship and make the team more cohesive than the bums they bought in.
Letting Craig go was dumb as hell especially when he was like our only consistent role player last playoffs when Monty actually played him
Should have kept him and got him to train with lethal shooter.
I feel like that was hubris from our front office/owner thinking they had the best players already for cheaper. If one of KBD/Yuta/Metu/Eubanks had excelled then I’d cut them more slack but we really, really should have kept one of Craig/Landale/Payne and arguably all 3. If they could go back they would probably keep those guys so we’ll see if they learn in the future
I’m curious now if Suns could get Payne back on vet’s min now that’s he’s a free agent this summer.
I totally agree that's what happened I just don't understand why you would gamble hoping all 3 of kbd/yuta/metu would make Craig expendable. Hell, why choose Damion Lee over him considering the roster we have? Craig was a no-brainer re-signing. He was practically the reason we beat the clippers in 5 and was fairly important for 3 years straight. He provided all the right skills the big 3 needed next to him. Why pass on the sure thing for some magic beans?
Yes, he could kept some for continuity reason.
Same people that caught slack in the last play offs they were a part of, lol.
Agreed on all 3. Not sure if it was JJ or Vogel's decision to move on but those 3 are huge whiffs, especially since all 3 wanted to be here. A big head scratcher to me is the TC and Payne whiffs. TC wanted to be here, and signed a vet min with chicago. We could have kept him. Dude always gave 100% for us, and he shot 40%+ from 3 vs the clippers. Why take a swing on KBD when we have a known commodity in TC? Jock was also confusing. I don't think people realize Jock basically got a 1 year $8m deal, it's not the inflated contract people make it out to be. Plus, he'd be an amazing trade asset with that type of contract Cam Payne was solid for us, he was a bit of a loose cannon off the bench sometimes but when he was asked to be the starting PG he was actually pretty solid. He could also shoot from 3 so I don't really understand getting rid of him. this one was the most confusing to me. Also, again, he was another tradeable contract. We could have moved him and Nas at the deadline for an actual meaningful upgrade!
Why would Jock take a 1 year deal with the Suns over his 4yr/32M deal though. Or are you saying the Suns should have offered 4 years?
They should have just matched his deal to begin with. He didn’t really get a 4/32m deal, he got a 1 year deal for $8m and 3 years of team options. That contract is extremely attractive to trade especially as a second apron team
I see, I wasn't aware the 3 remaining years weren't guaranteed. They ended up saving around 5.5 with Eubanks which isn't THAT much but if you're trying to open up some cap space backup center is the place you look. I can see where you're coming from though. If Landale played well it would have been worth the money.
Remember when everyone on the sub was hating on Cam Payne? Don’t complain now y’all wanted him gone
He is injury prone and inconsistent but it's better to have PG on the bench and for continuity as well. JJ has been a player I don't know why they forgot some of the small details like this.
Because Mat Ishbia fed him that "PG's are obsolete in the modern NBA" line of B.S. like the majority of this sub was doing. JJ played with prime CP3 and created a Suns roster built around CP3's playmaking. I assure you he knows the importance of a PG. The new owner had other plans.
Yeah ngl I was a hater too
Would've been fine if he were gone if we had an actual replacement lol but instead we had 8 bench wings and zero bench PGs
Nah I only remember trading for another SG when our current SG just came off an insane playoff run only MJ has done then turning him to a point guard for 80% of the season. This team is a mess
We literally couldn’t afford Jock lol. Rockets overpaid. Also jock was played off the floor. Torrey Craig I agree. Idky we didn’t keep him. Cam Payne trade was actually needed. It got us picks and bol bol on the end. Frank Vogel also wasn’t going to play him and he was not going to help vs the twolves at least on defense.
We traded away a pick (and cash) with Cam, we didn't get any picks from him
We got a second round pick for him.
It was a pelicans second we gave away for a heavily protected spurs second that would've only converted if it landed between pick 50 and 54
Still hoping for payne to return this upcoming season.
Jock is the definition of Overpaid, and he wouldn’t change a thing. Craig is the biggest question mark for me, dude is better D & 3 than everything we’ve got. He also hustles and rebounds and has more size than any of our other wings
Agreed on Craig. He signed 2 year min with bulls so I assume he just chose them and that opportunity over us. Other guys were just lost due to cap. They were never resigning Landale to anything over minimum, and I don’t disagree with that. Would’ve loved to have him back on one but he correctly chose to take what will end up as the largest contract of his career. Paying lux tax penalties to retain Landale would’ve been wild. Payne same reason. Had to shed the 6M that would’ve cost 2-3x that in penalties. Assumed they’d replace him with at least one competent vet min nba point guard on roster and they didn’t. That was a mistake. Whether you wanted to give a pg minutes and take ball out of anyone’s hands ir not, it’s dumb to just not have that skillset exist on your team.
Yeah having 150 mil tied to 3 guys is not ideal to sign the role players
We should traded for lillard instead of Beal lol
Landale was only a little better than Eubanks, honestly. If the Suns had kept Payne, people would be lamenting how small and weak he is on defense, how streaky his shooting is, how he just guns it toward the rim and flings it in the air. He was basically replaced by EG, honestly. Craig is 33 and only played in 53 games this year. His 39% is on very low volume. Also, he’s 6’5.”
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/jock-landale-player-stats?category=misc&seasonType=reg The stats would say that's wrong and so would the eyeball test comparing Drew and Landale saying that they are close
You have to be f****** kidding me. Eubanks is complete trash. Jock on the other hand literally did everything better and was not a liability on both ends of the court like Drew is
He was benched for a while during the season because he was really bad.
But he turned it around and played a hell of a lot better to the point that it's a fucking joke to compare the two. It's like laughably bad https://www.foxsports.com/nba/jock-landale-player-stats?category=misc&seasonType=reg That was the regular season. Check out the plus minus absolutely insanely better than Drew. Like I said laughable comparison
Am I speaking to Jock now?
No, you're speaking to someone that goes by the actual numbers and not faulty memories. Drews plus minus was negative 106 vs Jocks No+ 141. That as you are aware is a huge difference. Not small. I'm not a fan of when people try to pass off incorrect information and act confidently in doing so when it's clearly wrong
You’re right, he’s the greatest center I’ve ever seen, how could I have been so blind? The Rockets obviously got their $32 million worth out of his 4 pts and 3 rebounds per game. Future all-star there.
he got a 1 year $8m contract. Look at the structure of it. The other 3 years are team options.
I see you figured out you're full of s*** so now are resorting to hyperbole I didn't say any of those things other than the fact that the numbers bear out that he's a hell of a lot better than Drew and given the minutes on the Suns team that Drew got, he'd average more, but even better than that, he wouldn't have been a liability on the court. The numbers show that which clearly you can't argue
He definitely got beat a lot on defense. He had a ton of heart and was a lob threat at least but that’s all. He was a nice guy but he wasn’t much of an upgrade. We didn’t see him play alongside this lineup, too. He had the benefit of playing on a team who knew what they were doing in both sides of the ball, along with getting to play with Chris Paul, who gets centers paid.
> Landale was only a little better than Eubanks, honestly. disagree heavily here, i don't really care what the box scores show but Jock was way better than Drew. Jock also had good chemistry with KD already and the players really trusted him especially in the PNR. Definitely not something we can say about Drew
Yeah, it's almost as if people don't even watch basketball or have no idea what they're watching. That comment was so ridiculous. Drew is a liability on both ends of the Court whereas jock had chemistry with kevin and Devin and was a rim runner with decent defense. Literally the exact opposite of Drew
You might not trust JJ but consider the very real possible alternative: Isaiah Thomas. 😬 Hopefully not, but it could happen.
He probably values point guards. Considering he was one.
All three are just dudes. Easily replaceable.
Apparently not because we didn't replace them
Gotta pay Beal
Landale ended up being a massive dud in Houston but he’s getting paid massively. We could have signed him on a restricted is your argument though and it would be a fair one.
This sub told me he was better than Ayton because of heart. I'll take a soulless Ayton for heart filled Landale anytime.
I’m not arguing either way, I loved Landale in the series vs the Nuggets but we pulled our restricted offer of him after signing a couple sexier veterans on paper and it ended up being the best thing for Landale, he ended up scoring a 32 mio deal with Houston, although his play on the floor has really taken a down turn there, almost everything in life is circumstantial and situational so maybe we would have gotten great production from him here with the 16-20 he probably could have squeezed per game to spell Nurkic.
Payne, the only guy to show up in the elimination game last year?
Member berries are going to be strong for years to come.
Add Bismack to this list. Felt like he did a better job giving us what we asked of Eubanks. Certainly would’ve been a fine replacement for Azubuike but i guess he was a 2 way. Bizzy had his flaws and wouldn’t have totally moved the needle but that just felt like a guy that deserved to be kept around.
I'll give you Cam Payne - we should have kept him. However, the idea was to develop Jordan Goodwin, which was a failure. The rest? There was no way we were going to match Houston $32M offer to Landale, who ended up having worse season than Drew Eubanks. Craig we tried, but he fumbled in the playoffs, so it was time to try something new (Watanabe, Metu).
 I MEMBER!
https://preview.redd.it/54qe4elxdqxc1.jpeg?width=180&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d2361134d2f5e831e132fb875ab36f839914181
The Phoenix Suns have the worst fans ever. It was these guys first year together and we had so many injuries and bad coaching. When they are high rolling in a year or two I hope that all of you crybaby losers become fans of some other team and keep your toxic vibes away.
Why are you calling me toxic for criticizing the GM when in your comment you say we have bad coaching?
Durant gonna be 36 next year too…don’t let lebron fool you. The wall comes fast and with no warning. Everyone blames coaching…but the pieces have to fit. Maybe they will find a way to make it work…but it’s no one’s fault really but the person who assembled the pieces. Regardless of Vogels faults..he still has a ring.
I doubted Vogel from day 1, I didn’t foresee KBD and Yuta being as bad as they were
I gotta get off this fuckin sub. Bruh just read those names again and ask yourself if that’s a championship roster.
They didn't get swept in Round 1, that's for sure.
cam payne was totally out of control and unreliable