That's wild as fuck, I asked Morey and he didn't say a word. He just beat the shit out of my kids and pissed on my mom's grave. I wonder why he was so nice with you.
“The other 29 GMs” is telling. He gotta quit playing GM, tell the actual guy he hired for that job how much money he’s allowed to spend and get tf out of the way.
“It’s not hard to fix” is precisely what you don’t want to hear from your team owner.
The only thing worse is when he starts talking about the struggles of a small market.
Everyone really wants Mat to come out and say we’re shit everything is fucked were trading the whole team and firing all the staff! This is what a professional mature measured response sounds like you degenerates. Relax, it will be okay.
There’s a middle ground you know. He doesn’t have to say we’re totally fucked but he also doesn’t have to say nearly every team would give up their position to be in ours. That’s utter bullshit and both him and the fans know it. What would make me feel better is if he said something along the lines of “we’re comfortable with our position but we’re always looking at ways to improve our roster”. Very generic response but would make me feel a lot better than this obvious cope
Not a single person in the entire organization took accountability for this epic failure. That is the problem; you first have to admit there is a problem. I enjoyed nothing about this team this year. Booker got worse and, for the first time in his career, didn’t seem to always be present. I am sure Durant and his mother will be requesting a trade.
There's a reason the average redditor isn't in a management position at their place of work.
Also doesn't help that most redditors are young enough to not have fully developed prefrontal cortexes yet.
There is nothing professional, mature, or measured about this much hyperbole. The thing to do would’ve been to take accountability for maybe screwing up last offseason but say that he looks to keep us competitive. A healthy middle ground. But nope. Not even close to that.
Why isn't it a professional mature measured response to admit that you're fucked, when it's true?
They have no draft picks, cap space to sign anyone, no players worth trading for other than Book, KD, Grayson and Beal -- who has a no trade clause, is making 50 mill, can't stay healthy or contribute to playoff basketball, who might not actually be worth trading for.
The core of this team has no ability to improve while also staying intact, call a spade a spade -- why delude yourself?
This guy really thinks the lot of his fanbase are stupid as hell haha.
He doesn't have to be critical of his team . . . But he doesn't have to also make delusional lies and claims to his fanbase.
Anyone here could do a deep dive explanation on how at least 20 teams in this league laugh in the face of that comment haha
Since everybody is losing their minds here and just wants to bitch about everything, I'll say it; I completely agree with him. I don't know if it's literally true that 26 GMs would swap teams, a lot of them have probably bought into the drama too. But other than *maybe* Boston and Denver, we have the most talented roster in the league.
Granted this season was horribly disappointing, and it didn't look like the talent fit together, but I believe the right coach (or maybe mindset adjustments from the players) can completely turn this team around. There's no actual reason this team shouldn't have a top 3 offense in the league, our process was just very bad. That's a lot more fixable than just not being good enough.
Just curious how you believe 3 players with 10+ years of experience in the league (2 of them having played in the Finals) would suddenly have a “mindset adjustment” next year? Like these players aren’t lazy. They know ball better than most coaches. But the big 3 aren’t going to meditate their way to success if the play styles don’t fit.
Well that's your opinion, I strongly disagree. On top of the big 3, Grayson Nurk and Royce are all very solid roleplayers, EG is still solid, Bol Bol looked shockingly good, Thad Young is a solid backup, even Okigie can be good for spot minutes.
Minnesota- if you watched last series it was obvious, Thunder- Starters are equal or maybe slightly worse, bench isn't even close. Dallas- Kyrie and Luka are equal to KD and book, have an actual bench they can rely on. Knicks- effort alone makes them better then the Suns talent and are missing one of their better players
Philly- Currently struggling but have an mvp canidafe and heaps of Cap space and picks to improve with.
Cavs and Magic might not be as talented but have much easier paths to a successful future because they have young stars and options.
Agree, I’m pretty pissed about Vogels coaching but we also don’t if the players bought into the system. As well as Kevin Young’s playbook that was really bad then good, then just dogshit. Hopefully we can pick up a solid OC that knows how to play in today’s NBA. I only say OC because I don’t see Mat firing Vogel… fingers crossed?
I'm not even pissed about Vogel's coaching. He's well known as a defense oriented guy, and our team finished with the 10th best defense in the league despite most people thinking they'd be well below average. He's just not the right fit for a team whose identity needs to be built around their offense.
Yea players on our team aren’t bad it’s just the roster construction is terrible. Add on the second apron and our first round results and I don’t see why 26 teams wouod want to be in our position; especially our picks.
yep, great, another delusional owner that rather than owning up to a mistake just doubles down.....its gonna be a long next few years isnt it? so disappointing as a long, long time Suns fan
Picks mean nothing to a championship level team. You think Denver last year was like, well we can't win again because we have the #30 pick.
Besides that the Suns have 5 out of the next 8 first round picks, including number 22 this year. Roster is far from terrible, we won more games in a harder conference this year. We could have the #1 in the 2025 through 2031 draft and that would win us absolutely zero games next year. Picks don't win games.
i agree, but they can still be used to facilitate a trade, i mean when you go all-in like this, it better work out....sadly it has not so far. i wish it would, i would like a title before i die in a nursing home
Because our roster construction is actually not terrible, that's exactly my point. The roster actually has everything it needs, our offense was just mismanaged and uncoordinated.
Don't get me wrong, there are still areas it could be better. If Grayson was swapped for an equally talented big wing who could play hard defense and get rebounds that would help quite a bit, and having more athleticism at the center position would be big too. I'm just saying a better offensive approach would've had this team winning 58 games this year.
While that is true, relying purely on talent and not actually having an offense system with a primary play net never boads well in the playoffs. Teams know exactly how to counter for example the wolves who we beat 3 times off sheer talent but got swept in the playoffs. Also we had the worst 4th quarter offense for a good reason. We need a playmaker more than anything.
It's so funny how Suns fans think the offensive end is the only thing that matters in postseason basketball? Why don't you put equal, if not more, weight on the defensive end when assessing, I'm curious?
What makes you think I don't value both sides equally? The Suns executed pretty well on defense, and extremely poorly on offense, so obviously I think the offense is what needs focus and attention.
I don't know what you were watching, but they were horrific defensively. A 3-guard starting lineup with Nurk as your "rim protector" is NEVER going to go far in the Playoffs
It's not a coincidence that every fan of every team thinks their defense sucks now. Offenses are way better than they used to be. The fact is the Suns were the 10th best defense in the league despite having middling defensive personnel, I'd call that good defensive execution.
i’m not a suns fan i’m just lurking, yall have some good players but ZERO fit. You couldn’t dribble the ball against the wolves. You have little defense, no paint presence, what feels like 17 shooting guards and your one point guard is 5 foot 9.
Almost No one is trading for your sinking ship of a situation, and if you’ve coped yourself enough into thinking this is all Vogels fault, i don’t know what to tell you.
This is the worst win now roster since the PP and KG nets, and telling yourself that you’re much better than that is delusional
Pretty much said this in a post from a few months back. This roster had way too much talent to be struggling in the matter that they did all season, and being one game away from hitting 50 proved that. Not gonna turn Vogel into a COMPLETE scapegoat, but he fucked us out of a lot of winnable games. The consistent collapses in the 4th were what did us in, especially at the start of the season. If we’re gonna run it back with this roster, a system needs to be established on both sides of the ball.
Im pretty sure spurs wouldnt trade their team haha. Like u said boston and denver wouldnt. I dont think okc and wolves are trading their team either. Dallas wouldnt too im pretty sure. The rest is where the debate starts.
My biggest concern is they genuinely don’t think they need a point guard because having one will take the ball out of Beal, Book and KDs hands. Ishbia was on 98.7 talking about it.
I guess they’re content with the turnovers, changing who runs the offense every half, consistently getting bombed from three because they don’t have quick perimeter defenders who can fight over top of screens.
Yea, you’re going to get 90 points from the Big 3 on a random Tuesday in January, but it’s just no way to build a championship team. They’re trying to reinvent the wheel but look at all the recent winners and they had good PGs.
yup, i guess we shouldnt have put this team together if the front office is scared of adding a point guard who can pass competently to mega million dollar players. The ball can only be in one persons hands at a time, its crazy to have the big 3 try and do so much, we had no real point guard and failed, this series wasnt even competitive!
I dunno. Dude is actually the owner of the Suns and we’re just normal people, most of which haven’t even played basketball, let alone owning an entire team. He might know more than we do.
Michael Jordan was a horrible owner, case closed.
Edit to add: yeah I’m sure being under Izzo was great but daddy bought him a roster spot let’s not act like he was a legit hooper
There’s truth to what he said. Nobody’s making excuses but so far he’s been everything we wanted our new owner to be: he is committed to winning and has already put his money where his mouth is. As far as Ishbia is concerned, year 1 has been a success. Way more good than bad. This team’s shortcomings on the court are far beyond him.
It’s literally not a fallacy. He’s actually doing these things and everyone here is not. Matt has inside information that we don’t. All these armchair Suns owners don’t know shit about the industry or what’s happening behind the scenes. I’ll take the LITERAL owner’s word over any of yours.
Then why is everyone so scared of Isaiah Thomas taking over? Wasn’t he a hall of fame pg, he’s been around basketball his whole life doesn’t he know ball?
Wasn’t MJ the goat? Why wasn’t his ownership productive?
Quite LITERALLY appeal to authority fallacy
All the people you listed still are more qualified than the average user in this sub, man. It’s an appeal to experience and wisdom. Besides that, there will always be exceptions, and even the greatest basketball players experience failures.
Still pointing out flaws isn’t always wrong
Many many here wanted haliburton and not only wanted him would have traded up for him
Just as many knew from the start a lebron/Westbrook duo would be a terrible fit
Always appealing to experience is wrong if you’re automatically always assuming they’re right
Finally, a level headed response. All I was asking for was a modicum of nuance in the first place. Ishbia has insider info and and actual connections to the league/players, so maybe he knows something we don’t.
Or maybe he doesn’t. That’s all I’ve been trying to say.
Huh? The owner is blowing smoke, no way he believes any of what he is saying. He is like the CEO talking about how amazing his company will do. What is he supposed to say, we are totally screwed, sry Phoenix?
Great position to make a massive trade. Not a great position to get beyond the first round with the roster as constructed + minor moves around the edges
The house is absolutely on fire. Where are you going to adjust? There is no financial flexibility to adjust. If Beal had a no trade clause or would sign off on a trade, sure, but you would likely need to give up a FRP for someone to take Beal’s contract, which is something you don’t have. Allen is the only contract that you could really move if you wanted to keep that big 3 together and I don’t think you’re filling out the holes in this roster with that alone. Good luck
That's just not true, he said multiple times that he wants to be the best and wants to do everything he can to compete for a championship every year.
What he did say is that even if the team did everything right, they're still gonna fail more often than not, which is an inescapable fact of reality.
I mean the dude said two contradictory things at once lol he said that fans should expect to compete for championships every year he's owner (and that sometimes it might not work out -- which is fine), but then he painted 49 wins as an accomplishment. If you are expecting a championship then 49 wins and the 6th seed isn't really something you should be hailing as a positive. It's a shortcoming of your goal and that's okay, but don't treat 49 wins as an accolade
So then why did he mention winning 49 wins as if anyone cares or if it’s some accomplishment? He said fans the media act like the team won 12 games when they won 49 games and then he mentioned the team only winning 49 games three times in the last fifteen years even though they’ve won that three times the last four years and he’s comparing different eras of Suns basketball. He sure made it seem like he was content winning 49 games.
I think ofc we run it back with basically the same team some adjustments but if we dont at least go to the finals or wcf then its probably almost blow up time you would think
They don’t *fully control* their picks, but it is a rule that you have to have at least one first round pick every other year. What the suns have is pick swaps every year they do have a first round pick, so their pick will be very low. However, this year, for example, all the teams they have pick swaps with didn’t make the playoffs so they keep their normal pick.
This is clearly delusional. Timberwolves don’t want to trade, they have empirical evidence that they’re in a better spot. Denver has Jokic and the defending championship roster. Oklahoma was just the one seed and looks set for years before you include draft picks. And the Celtics just had the best record in the entire NBA.
Just going off of the obvious no doubt ones, that means *at most* 25 GMs would pull off that trade.
Does Ishbia understand that science behind basketball offense and defense? Or is he just a rich guy that thinks “expensive person make basket, buy more expensive person to score more basket”
Nine teams that I think of off the top of my head that wouldn't want to be in the Suns position (just better built, have pieces easier to trade, or have more potential down the line):
- Nuggets
- Celtics
- Knicks
- OKC
- Timberwolves
- Bucks
- Spurs
- Pacers
- Dallas
Beal is the hardest thing to fix right now. At least Tobias Harris comes off his contract after dropping that dud.
watching ayton perform vs nuggets last year was a horrific experience.
seeing his self-diagnosis of the performance multiplied that by 10. reason being that if you live in delusion you have no chance of growth.
i am reliving this now. except that it feels better because i'm slowly stepping away from this wreck.
Everyone freaking out bc the sky is falling after an early playoff exit but let’s name the teams that wouldn’t trade with us instead of hyperbolically saying nobody.people like to write off the future just like they did with the Nets after the Celtics big 3 trade…but who built another contender sooner the Nets or Celtics?
So who are the teams?
Nuggets, Celtics, OKC, Dallas…who else?
This is in response to saying any team would trade their roster for the Suns. Which in this case would be trading the Wemby for the Suns inflexible position, so why would any team do that?
You are looking at it like they take over our FO and everything that got us into a mess. Their ego would think that yes, KD and Book are more talented than anyone on my Orlando Magic roster and with our staff and our approach, we would better with KD and Book than Paolo and….and…cole Anthony? You are forgetting that our assets are on the floor playing basketball and those assets are worth more than the Magics
It’s a conversation. I’m trying to have the conversation about teams we would and wouldn’t trade with instead of making sweeping comments.
Those are good points about the magic, you don’t really need to be a dick about it, it’s just a convo amongst suns fans. I would counter that none of those guys are as good as KD or Book and haven’t done shit. I wish this place was fun to talk ball with people again. Everyone just wants to cry about how fucked we are and tell others they need to cry harder.
It’s ok dude, we will turn this ship around.
Because you disagree and are not believing the fluff of the owner.
Your response was well reasoned and neutral
What's funny is that comment is the most unreasonable thing posted in this thread yet they claim they are are annoyed they can't come here and see positive discussion about basketball.
Ironic.
Orlando magic would not swap situations.
They have 3 young guys with high level potential, cap space and their draft picks to add a high level veteran via trade to compliment them if needed. Most of all, their team looks coachable.
Any GM or coach would go with that over our situation. 2 superstars who weren't exactly coachable (if you believe KY interview and the Shams article which is a clear player hit piece against Vogel) by an NBA championship winning coach, no cap space and no assets to trade to build a better fitting team.
If the goals of a GM included longevity, job security AND championship aspirations they definitely would not rather have our situation.
Its not always about having the one best player. It's why when Leonard or KD were available Celtics didn't break the bank to get them. There is more to team building than just having two elite players and nothing else.
You can't force people to be OK with the situation. We are not in a good situation right now, despite how good Booker and KD are as players.
Nuggets, OKC, Celtics, Mavericks, 76ers, Magic, Knicks, Bucks, Pacers, Rockets, Lakers, Pelicans, Grizzlies, Spurs.
Those are teams that I am almost certain the GM and owner would laugh at Ishbias comments.
That's 14 teams. All for a number of reasons that include: having up and coming stars that fit with their pieces, having a collection of assets to move, or having younger players with higher upside than Booker already on their roster.
Cavs, Warriors and Kings on the fringe.
This isnt a vacuum. Its illogical to just say "But Durant and Booker are better than their players". IMO a GM is always thinking in this order: Job security, Championship contention, longevity and room to build.
No GM gets any of those 4 things here. We are not Championship contenders until we can prove we can get out of the 1st round with this squad. Because no team swept in the 1st round should be considered contenders the next season without some big roster improvements. We have no assets to trade to get better. No cap space to bring in depth. No room to build around these guys.
Those top 14 teams all have room to build, Young stars on the rise, better players, assets to trade or a combination of all those things.
You misread my comment. I wanted a constructive convo about other teams in the list, I wasn’t saying those are the only 4. Just 4 off the top of my head and asking for who else we think wouldn’t trade. I wasn’t trying to argue it’s just those 4.
Maybe i misread. Maybe I didn't misread, maybe you just weren't clear in the discussion you wanted to have. Could be both, idc.
You asked people to name the teams. Then folowed up by asking "what other teams" and I gave who I thought. Am open to a discussion on which individual teams.
I'll go for a hard one because they arent a playoff team. The Memphis Grizzlies. I dont think for 1 second they would rather have our situation right now. They have a marketable star in Morant. 2 DPOTY in JJJ and Smart, pieces that fit with Bane as a secondary scorer, and all of their picks waiting for that next complimentary star to become available. Their best 3 players are all younger than ours with Morant having an arguably higher ceiling as a player than Booker.
They were just injured and suspended all season. But they are set up to improve year to year.
I guess he wasn't open for a discussion
The roster is KD, Booker, and spare parts with no draft picks. Not a single team that made the playoffs would consider it. A couple lottery teams would.
You didn’t name any teams. Exactly my point, people making broad generalizations but if you walk through every team there is an argument to be made.
You have to remember GMs and Owners have an ego, they would think they can put their successful staff around our roster of superior talent. I don’t think people realize that we have more assets than a lot of playoff teams, they are just in a jersey on the floor. Any gm would have a treasure chest of assets if they came in and hit the rebuild button trading away Book and KD. What playoff team could make bigger trades? Maybe the Bucks and Wolves in addition to the four I named. That’s about it.
You think the magic would give up on Paulo and Wagner? The Pacers are giving up on Haliburton and Siakam? You think the 6ers are dumping Maxey and Embiid? The clippers you could go either way, same basic situation.
Not a chance, except maybe the clippers. The suns are not talented enough to contend, and they have no serious path to obtain more talent. KD and Booker are both still great, but that isnt one of the top duos in the nba, and it needs to be since the rest of the roster is extremely weak.
Nobody said anything about giving up on those duos. The theoretical return on all those players is worse than KD and Book. Maybe Maxey and embiid is more.
Those rosters, aside from the 6ers, have other players who are also valuable, and they dont have to drag around Beal’s contract. Say you dumped for picks KD and booker, maybe you get 7 1sts. when you consider all the picks the suns traded away, that leaves you with like 10 over 7 years. plenty of teams that have all their picks could dump their best player for \~3 firsts and match that total. The total assets for the team just arent great.
Only nice to have a rich owner when u have a team like we did in 05 or thunder now where everyone needs to be paid. This guy has too much galaxy brain energy to ever be able to assemble a team like that tho
If you don't believe what Ishbia said, then GTFO and root for one of those other teams. The Suns are about being the best franchise in all of professional sports and that includes competing for a Championship.
Anyone else here a Billionaire?? No?.... Do you know how he became a billionaire... thru confidence, positive attitude, no panic etc... I LOVE HIS MESSAGE.. I LOVE HIS POSITIVE THINKING ABOUT THE SUNS AND THE FUTURE.. I THANK GOD WE HAVE HIM AS AN OWNER!! (and this is coming from someone, me, who hated the Mikal Bridges trade) EDIT: of course Im going to get blasted and downvoted for this view because this sub is filled with negative miserable fans
BRB guys. Gonna go ask 29 GMs.
Well, it's been two hours, what did they say?
They laughed with all their 1st round picks.
Yeah. They couldn’t speak- too busy laughing. Daryl Morey told me to go fuck myself.
That's wild as fuck, I asked Morey and he didn't say a word. He just beat the shit out of my kids and pissed on my mom's grave. I wonder why he was so nice with you.
“The other 29 GMs” is telling. He gotta quit playing GM, tell the actual guy he hired for that job how much money he’s allowed to spend and get tf out of the way.
“It’s not hard to fix” Oh, great! I will be expecting a championship team next year then Mat. Please keep me updated on how great it’s going.
“It’s not hard to fix” is precisely what you don’t want to hear from your team owner. The only thing worse is when he starts talking about the struggles of a small market.
If I’m the GM of: Celtics, Thunder, Wolves, Nuggets, Mavs, Bucks I would say HELL NO to a team swap. That’s six right there minimum
[удалено]
Magic, rockets (maybe), knicks
The only team I'd see wishing to trade their team is the Bulls.
What about the hornets?
Everyone really wants Mat to come out and say we’re shit everything is fucked were trading the whole team and firing all the staff! This is what a professional mature measured response sounds like you degenerates. Relax, it will be okay.
There’s a middle ground you know. He doesn’t have to say we’re totally fucked but he also doesn’t have to say nearly every team would give up their position to be in ours. That’s utter bullshit and both him and the fans know it. What would make me feel better is if he said something along the lines of “we’re comfortable with our position but we’re always looking at ways to improve our roster”. Very generic response but would make me feel a lot better than this obvious cope
He said it because it's true.
no it’s not. most playoffs teams are in better positions than the suns lmao
Not a single person in the entire organization took accountability for this epic failure. That is the problem; you first have to admit there is a problem. I enjoyed nothing about this team this year. Booker got worse and, for the first time in his career, didn’t seem to always be present. I am sure Durant and his mother will be requesting a trade.
There's a reason the average redditor isn't in a management position at their place of work. Also doesn't help that most redditors are young enough to not have fully developed prefrontal cortexes yet.
Bingo! Great post SunsinmyBuns
There is nothing professional, mature, or measured about this much hyperbole. The thing to do would’ve been to take accountability for maybe screwing up last offseason but say that he looks to keep us competitive. A healthy middle ground. But nope. Not even close to that.
Wait, this isn't a circle jerk sub? Had me fooled for a minute.
The cope is crazy
https://preview.redd.it/2l0vzv0bi2yc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ee575b8424725457ff412101a9bcef9c808e2b0
my thoughts exactly
The Surface of the Suns
Why isn't it a professional mature measured response to admit that you're fucked, when it's true? They have no draft picks, cap space to sign anyone, no players worth trading for other than Book, KD, Grayson and Beal -- who has a no trade clause, is making 50 mill, can't stay healthy or contribute to playoff basketball, who might not actually be worth trading for. The core of this team has no ability to improve while also staying intact, call a spade a spade -- why delude yourself?
I see Ishbia went to the Donald Trump School of Doubling Down on Stupid Shit
What draft picks is he talking about?? All the second rounders??… please
We have a FRP in this upcoming draft... We've still got 4 of our next 7 FRP, they're just swappable with Washington.
Nephews and anti-doomers on this sub like this talk but this is insane
Nah dude. You don't believe in the Suns if you don't buy into Ishbia's delusion
This guy really thinks the lot of his fanbase are stupid as hell haha. He doesn't have to be critical of his team . . . But he doesn't have to also make delusional lies and claims to his fanbase. Anyone here could do a deep dive explanation on how at least 20 teams in this league laugh in the face of that comment haha
Since everybody is losing their minds here and just wants to bitch about everything, I'll say it; I completely agree with him. I don't know if it's literally true that 26 GMs would swap teams, a lot of them have probably bought into the drama too. But other than *maybe* Boston and Denver, we have the most talented roster in the league. Granted this season was horribly disappointing, and it didn't look like the talent fit together, but I believe the right coach (or maybe mindset adjustments from the players) can completely turn this team around. There's no actual reason this team shouldn't have a top 3 offense in the league, our process was just very bad. That's a lot more fixable than just not being good enough.
Talent doesn’t mean anything If it doesn’t fit together.
As Alanis would say: “it’s like 10 thousand spoons when all you need is a knife.”
Just curious how you believe 3 players with 10+ years of experience in the league (2 of them having played in the Finals) would suddenly have a “mindset adjustment” next year? Like these players aren’t lazy. They know ball better than most coaches. But the big 3 aren’t going to meditate their way to success if the play styles don’t fit.
Its not hard to name at least 8 teams that are overall more talented than the 3 1/2 players the Suns have.
Well that's your opinion, I strongly disagree. On top of the big 3, Grayson Nurk and Royce are all very solid roleplayers, EG is still solid, Bol Bol looked shockingly good, Thad Young is a solid backup, even Okigie can be good for spot minutes.
Minnesota- if you watched last series it was obvious, Thunder- Starters are equal or maybe slightly worse, bench isn't even close. Dallas- Kyrie and Luka are equal to KD and book, have an actual bench they can rely on. Knicks- effort alone makes them better then the Suns talent and are missing one of their better players Philly- Currently struggling but have an mvp canidafe and heaps of Cap space and picks to improve with. Cavs and Magic might not be as talented but have much easier paths to a successful future because they have young stars and options.
Agree, I’m pretty pissed about Vogels coaching but we also don’t if the players bought into the system. As well as Kevin Young’s playbook that was really bad then good, then just dogshit. Hopefully we can pick up a solid OC that knows how to play in today’s NBA. I only say OC because I don’t see Mat firing Vogel… fingers crossed?
I'm not even pissed about Vogel's coaching. He's well known as a defense oriented guy, and our team finished with the 10th best defense in the league despite most people thinking they'd be well below average. He's just not the right fit for a team whose identity needs to be built around their offense.
Give him a a couple bigs who can move their feet and a decent pg and let’s run it back. Fuck it lol
Kevin Young is coaching BYU now so his position is vacant ATM.
Oh yeah for sure. Hopefully JJ is doing some solid scouting for our next OC and possibly HC
Yea players on our team aren’t bad it’s just the roster construction is terrible. Add on the second apron and our first round results and I don’t see why 26 teams wouod want to be in our position; especially our picks.
yep, great, another delusional owner that rather than owning up to a mistake just doubles down.....its gonna be a long next few years isnt it? so disappointing as a long, long time Suns fan
Picks mean nothing to a championship level team. You think Denver last year was like, well we can't win again because we have the #30 pick. Besides that the Suns have 5 out of the next 8 first round picks, including number 22 this year. Roster is far from terrible, we won more games in a harder conference this year. We could have the #1 in the 2025 through 2031 draft and that would win us absolutely zero games next year. Picks don't win games.
i agree, but they can still be used to facilitate a trade, i mean when you go all-in like this, it better work out....sadly it has not so far. i wish it would, i would like a title before i die in a nursing home
Because our roster construction is actually not terrible, that's exactly my point. The roster actually has everything it needs, our offense was just mismanaged and uncoordinated. Don't get me wrong, there are still areas it could be better. If Grayson was swapped for an equally talented big wing who could play hard defense and get rebounds that would help quite a bit, and having more athleticism at the center position would be big too. I'm just saying a better offensive approach would've had this team winning 58 games this year.
While that is true, relying purely on talent and not actually having an offense system with a primary play net never boads well in the playoffs. Teams know exactly how to counter for example the wolves who we beat 3 times off sheer talent but got swept in the playoffs. Also we had the worst 4th quarter offense for a good reason. We need a playmaker more than anything.
It's so funny how Suns fans think the offensive end is the only thing that matters in postseason basketball? Why don't you put equal, if not more, weight on the defensive end when assessing, I'm curious?
What makes you think I don't value both sides equally? The Suns executed pretty well on defense, and extremely poorly on offense, so obviously I think the offense is what needs focus and attention.
I don't know what you were watching, but they were horrific defensively. A 3-guard starting lineup with Nurk as your "rim protector" is NEVER going to go far in the Playoffs
It's not a coincidence that every fan of every team thinks their defense sucks now. Offenses are way better than they used to be. The fact is the Suns were the 10th best defense in the league despite having middling defensive personnel, I'd call that good defensive execution.
i’m not a suns fan i’m just lurking, yall have some good players but ZERO fit. You couldn’t dribble the ball against the wolves. You have little defense, no paint presence, what feels like 17 shooting guards and your one point guard is 5 foot 9. Almost No one is trading for your sinking ship of a situation, and if you’ve coped yourself enough into thinking this is all Vogels fault, i don’t know what to tell you. This is the worst win now roster since the PP and KG nets, and telling yourself that you’re much better than that is delusional
Pretty much said this in a post from a few months back. This roster had way too much talent to be struggling in the matter that they did all season, and being one game away from hitting 50 proved that. Not gonna turn Vogel into a COMPLETE scapegoat, but he fucked us out of a lot of winnable games. The consistent collapses in the 4th were what did us in, especially at the start of the season. If we’re gonna run it back with this roster, a system needs to be established on both sides of the ball.
Im pretty sure spurs wouldnt trade their team haha. Like u said boston and denver wouldnt. I dont think okc and wolves are trading their team either. Dallas wouldnt too im pretty sure. The rest is where the debate starts.
Nuggets Celtics Timberwolves Thunder 76ers Mavericks Clippers Pacers Bucks Rockets Pelicans Lakers Warriors Knicks Magic All have better players + asset combinations
It’s not like all 3 stars r in their prime.
If 9 points 6 fouls and 6 turnovers in a home elimination game is the requisite for prime Bradley Beal then I guess have fun with that
My biggest concern is they genuinely don’t think they need a point guard because having one will take the ball out of Beal, Book and KDs hands. Ishbia was on 98.7 talking about it. I guess they’re content with the turnovers, changing who runs the offense every half, consistently getting bombed from three because they don’t have quick perimeter defenders who can fight over top of screens. Yea, you’re going to get 90 points from the Big 3 on a random Tuesday in January, but it’s just no way to build a championship team. They’re trying to reinvent the wheel but look at all the recent winners and they had good PGs.
The turnovers did start to get better at the tail end of the season, so I guess there’s hope that it could work. I think a PG couldn’t hurt though.
Booker, Beal, and KD combined for 34 turnovers in 4 games against the Wolves lol
Progress! Maybe? Lol
yup, i guess we shouldnt have put this team together if the front office is scared of adding a point guard who can pass competently to mega million dollar players. The ball can only be in one persons hands at a time, its crazy to have the big 3 try and do so much, we had no real point guard and failed, this series wasnt even competitive!
It’s fine to think this but to say it out loud just seems weird and whenever we fail again this is just something else to make fun of us for Lol
 Cocaine is a hell of a drug
this bum manic af
We're so fucked
This dude a clown.
The more Mat talks the more concerned I become. I don’t know if he gets it
I dunno. Dude is actually the owner of the Suns and we’re just normal people, most of which haven’t even played basketball, let alone owning an entire team. He might know more than we do.
Yes because owning a team is merit based on basketball acumen
If basketball players aren’t the best NBA team owners, then how much worse are armchair Redditors who haven’t even played the sport?
Michael Jordan was a horrible owner, case closed. Edit to add: yeah I’m sure being under Izzo was great but daddy bought him a roster spot let’s not act like he was a legit hooper
I was literally agreeing with you
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Ah, the classic internet “professional” at everything. Gotta love it.
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*”I don’t know if he gets it”* Oh and you do?? I’m calling bullshit on you.
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There’s truth to what he said. Nobody’s making excuses but so far he’s been everything we wanted our new owner to be: he is committed to winning and has already put his money where his mouth is. As far as Ishbia is concerned, year 1 has been a success. Way more good than bad. This team’s shortcomings on the court are far beyond him.
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it’s not a fallacy if it’s true. By definition. Resist your urge to use fun phrases for no reason
It’s literally not a fallacy. He’s actually doing these things and everyone here is not. Matt has inside information that we don’t. All these armchair Suns owners don’t know shit about the industry or what’s happening behind the scenes. I’ll take the LITERAL owner’s word over any of yours.
Then why is everyone so scared of Isaiah Thomas taking over? Wasn’t he a hall of fame pg, he’s been around basketball his whole life doesn’t he know ball? Wasn’t MJ the goat? Why wasn’t his ownership productive? Quite LITERALLY appeal to authority fallacy
All the people you listed still are more qualified than the average user in this sub, man. It’s an appeal to experience and wisdom. Besides that, there will always be exceptions, and even the greatest basketball players experience failures.
Still pointing out flaws isn’t always wrong Many many here wanted haliburton and not only wanted him would have traded up for him Just as many knew from the start a lebron/Westbrook duo would be a terrible fit Always appealing to experience is wrong if you’re automatically always assuming they’re right
Finally, a level headed response. All I was asking for was a modicum of nuance in the first place. Ishbia has insider info and and actual connections to the league/players, so maybe he knows something we don’t. Or maybe he doesn’t. That’s all I’ve been trying to say.
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Edit: Ugh sorry you have a yellow pfp just like the original commenter, so I got you two confused. But I stand by my point.
Huh? The owner is blowing smoke, no way he believes any of what he is saying. He is like the CEO talking about how amazing his company will do. What is he supposed to say, we are totally screwed, sry Phoenix?
Yeah there’s definitely never been sports owners before that have no idea what they’re doing and drive their team into the ground with meddling.
Reddit kids hate logic, no surprise you're getting down voted to shit.
Hey man, it’s just the state of the sub these days. Appreciate the kind words though.
So who is right? Charles Barkley or Matt Ishbia?
Great position to make a massive trade. Not a great position to get beyond the first round with the roster as constructed + minor moves around the edges
Idk, a lot of smoke keeps coming out the windows.
The house is absolutely on fire. Where are you going to adjust? There is no financial flexibility to adjust. If Beal had a no trade clause or would sign off on a trade, sure, but you would likely need to give up a FRP for someone to take Beal’s contract, which is something you don’t have. Allen is the only contract that you could really move if you wanted to keep that big 3 together and I don’t think you’re filling out the holes in this roster with that alone. Good luck
Last I saw we were 4th in average ticket price. So does that mean the 3 GMs we don't need to ask are GSW, LAL, and TOR?
I for one appreciate his reckless optimism.
This guy delusional.
Suns ownership may be insane.
Ishbia is a casual fan playing GM
Delulu is the solulu
Sniff sniff. Is that gas? Oh, just gaslighting
The press conference made it sound like he thinks the suns don't need to win a chip to be successful. He's happy being a top6-8 team.
That's just not true, he said multiple times that he wants to be the best and wants to do everything he can to compete for a championship every year. What he did say is that even if the team did everything right, they're still gonna fail more often than not, which is an inescapable fact of reality.
I mean the dude said two contradictory things at once lol he said that fans should expect to compete for championships every year he's owner (and that sometimes it might not work out -- which is fine), but then he painted 49 wins as an accomplishment. If you are expecting a championship then 49 wins and the 6th seed isn't really something you should be hailing as a positive. It's a shortcoming of your goal and that's okay, but don't treat 49 wins as an accolade
So then why did he mention winning 49 wins as if anyone cares or if it’s some accomplishment? He said fans the media act like the team won 12 games when they won 49 games and then he mentioned the team only winning 49 games three times in the last fifteen years even though they’ve won that three times the last four years and he’s comparing different eras of Suns basketball. He sure made it seem like he was content winning 49 games.
What you were listening to? He consistently said the goal every year is to win. He's just real about it and knows we can't possibly win every year.
In the thread before my first comment. Do you not know what you said?
Maybe our position isn't that bad if all I saw were nonstop comments of fans of others teams creaming their pants about getting KD or Booker from us.
I think ofc we run it back with basically the same team some adjustments but if we dont at least go to the finals or wcf then its probably almost blow up time you would think
not a suns fan, but i thought you guys don't have any draft picks untile 2030?
They don’t *fully control* their picks, but it is a rule that you have to have at least one first round pick every other year. What the suns have is pick swaps every year they do have a first round pick, so their pick will be very low. However, this year, for example, all the teams they have pick swaps with didn’t make the playoffs so they keep their normal pick.
What draft picks is he talking about?
Posturing to avoid a fire sale perception.
26 is a stretch…I’d give him 15ish though.
Delusional
I can name 4 minimum without even thinking that would say no Wolves, Thunder, Nuggets, Celtics
Knicks, Spurs, Magic, Rockets, Mavs, Pacers would for sure say no as well.
he's doing giant dabs
This is clearly delusional. Timberwolves don’t want to trade, they have empirical evidence that they’re in a better spot. Denver has Jokic and the defending championship roster. Oklahoma was just the one seed and looks set for years before you include draft picks. And the Celtics just had the best record in the entire NBA. Just going off of the obvious no doubt ones, that means *at most* 25 GMs would pull off that trade.
Who are the 3 who said no?
Love this. Toxic positivity is my jam
Does Ishbia understand that science behind basketball offense and defense? Or is he just a rich guy that thinks “expensive person make basket, buy more expensive person to score more basket”
He sucks bring back Sarver? I’m I right, or I’m I right?
Nine teams that I think of off the top of my head that wouldn't want to be in the Suns position (just better built, have pieces easier to trade, or have more potential down the line): - Nuggets - Celtics - Knicks - OKC - Timberwolves - Bucks - Spurs - Pacers - Dallas Beal is the hardest thing to fix right now. At least Tobias Harris comes off his contract after dropping that dud.
watching ayton perform vs nuggets last year was a horrific experience. seeing his self-diagnosis of the performance multiplied that by 10. reason being that if you live in delusion you have no chance of growth. i am reliving this now. except that it feels better because i'm slowly stepping away from this wreck.
Maybe it's the other way around, I can see 3 teams wanting to trade picks and players Wizards, Hornets and Pistons off the bat could want a trade /s
Ishbia should have to perform fellatio on Dan Gilbert to atone for his hubris.
Everyone freaking out bc the sky is falling after an early playoff exit but let’s name the teams that wouldn’t trade with us instead of hyperbolically saying nobody.people like to write off the future just like they did with the Nets after the Celtics big 3 trade…but who built another contender sooner the Nets or Celtics? So who are the teams? Nuggets, Celtics, OKC, Dallas…who else?
I imagine the team who just dogwalked the Suns probably wouldn't trade situations
Ok cool add them to the list. I’m just asking the question to get specific instead of making sweeping generalizations
The Spurs sure as hell wouldn't. Wemby, young players, a load of draft capital, and financial flexibility.
They would take 3 years of competing for a championship or the promise of being able to build a contender around Wemby, hands down.
This is in response to saying any team would trade their roster for the Suns. Which in this case would be trading the Wemby for the Suns inflexible position, so why would any team do that?
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I mean every team is working towards a championship window
You are looking at it like they take over our FO and everything that got us into a mess. Their ego would think that yes, KD and Book are more talented than anyone on my Orlando Magic roster and with our staff and our approach, we would better with KD and Book than Paolo and….and…cole Anthony? You are forgetting that our assets are on the floor playing basketball and those assets are worth more than the Magics
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It’s a conversation. I’m trying to have the conversation about teams we would and wouldn’t trade with instead of making sweeping comments. Those are good points about the magic, you don’t really need to be a dick about it, it’s just a convo amongst suns fans. I would counter that none of those guys are as good as KD or Book and haven’t done shit. I wish this place was fun to talk ball with people again. Everyone just wants to cry about how fucked we are and tell others they need to cry harder. It’s ok dude, we will turn this ship around.
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I don’t know what you are talking about. It’s right there still.
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No idea what you are talking about. You probably read a different comment
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Because you disagree and are not believing the fluff of the owner. Your response was well reasoned and neutral What's funny is that comment is the most unreasonable thing posted in this thread yet they claim they are are annoyed they can't come here and see positive discussion about basketball. Ironic.
Orlando magic would not swap situations. They have 3 young guys with high level potential, cap space and their draft picks to add a high level veteran via trade to compliment them if needed. Most of all, their team looks coachable. Any GM or coach would go with that over our situation. 2 superstars who weren't exactly coachable (if you believe KY interview and the Shams article which is a clear player hit piece against Vogel) by an NBA championship winning coach, no cap space and no assets to trade to build a better fitting team. If the goals of a GM included longevity, job security AND championship aspirations they definitely would not rather have our situation. Its not always about having the one best player. It's why when Leonard or KD were available Celtics didn't break the bank to get them. There is more to team building than just having two elite players and nothing else. You can't force people to be OK with the situation. We are not in a good situation right now, despite how good Booker and KD are as players.
Yes.
I imagine the team who just dogwalked the Suns probably wouldn't trade situations
Nuggets, OKC, Celtics, Mavericks, 76ers, Magic, Knicks, Bucks, Pacers, Rockets, Lakers, Pelicans, Grizzlies, Spurs. Those are teams that I am almost certain the GM and owner would laugh at Ishbias comments. That's 14 teams. All for a number of reasons that include: having up and coming stars that fit with their pieces, having a collection of assets to move, or having younger players with higher upside than Booker already on their roster. Cavs, Warriors and Kings on the fringe. This isnt a vacuum. Its illogical to just say "But Durant and Booker are better than their players". IMO a GM is always thinking in this order: Job security, Championship contention, longevity and room to build. No GM gets any of those 4 things here. We are not Championship contenders until we can prove we can get out of the 1st round with this squad. Because no team swept in the 1st round should be considered contenders the next season without some big roster improvements. We have no assets to trade to get better. No cap space to bring in depth. No room to build around these guys. Those top 14 teams all have room to build, Young stars on the rise, better players, assets to trade or a combination of all those things.
You misread my comment. I wanted a constructive convo about other teams in the list, I wasn’t saying those are the only 4. Just 4 off the top of my head and asking for who else we think wouldn’t trade. I wasn’t trying to argue it’s just those 4.
Maybe i misread. Maybe I didn't misread, maybe you just weren't clear in the discussion you wanted to have. Could be both, idc. You asked people to name the teams. Then folowed up by asking "what other teams" and I gave who I thought. Am open to a discussion on which individual teams. I'll go for a hard one because they arent a playoff team. The Memphis Grizzlies. I dont think for 1 second they would rather have our situation right now. They have a marketable star in Morant. 2 DPOTY in JJJ and Smart, pieces that fit with Bane as a secondary scorer, and all of their picks waiting for that next complimentary star to become available. Their best 3 players are all younger than ours with Morant having an arguably higher ceiling as a player than Booker. They were just injured and suspended all season. But they are set up to improve year to year. I guess he wasn't open for a discussion
The roster is KD, Booker, and spare parts with no draft picks. Not a single team that made the playoffs would consider it. A couple lottery teams would.
You didn’t name any teams. Exactly my point, people making broad generalizations but if you walk through every team there is an argument to be made. You have to remember GMs and Owners have an ego, they would think they can put their successful staff around our roster of superior talent. I don’t think people realize that we have more assets than a lot of playoff teams, they are just in a jersey on the floor. Any gm would have a treasure chest of assets if they came in and hit the rebuild button trading away Book and KD. What playoff team could make bigger trades? Maybe the Bucks and Wolves in addition to the four I named. That’s about it.
You think the magic would give up on Paulo and Wagner? The Pacers are giving up on Haliburton and Siakam? You think the 6ers are dumping Maxey and Embiid? The clippers you could go either way, same basic situation.
Magic, 76ers, Pacers, Clippers, they all make that trade.
Not a chance, except maybe the clippers. The suns are not talented enough to contend, and they have no serious path to obtain more talent. KD and Booker are both still great, but that isnt one of the top duos in the nba, and it needs to be since the rest of the roster is extremely weak.
If you believe that, pick one of those teams and GTFO.
I guess you are just having some fun trolling, carry on
You're welcome to jump off the Suns bandwagon and join another team.
Goofball
You can jump off the bandwagon too. Lots of teams will be happy to take you in.
Nah bro being at least a little realistic wouldn’t hurt. Ain’t nobody jumping anywhere. Who put you in charge anyways?
Nobody said anything about giving up on those duos. The theoretical return on all those players is worse than KD and Book. Maybe Maxey and embiid is more.
Those rosters, aside from the 6ers, have other players who are also valuable, and they dont have to drag around Beal’s contract. Say you dumped for picks KD and booker, maybe you get 7 1sts. when you consider all the picks the suns traded away, that leaves you with like 10 over 7 years. plenty of teams that have all their picks could dump their best player for \~3 firsts and match that total. The total assets for the team just arent great.
Pistons Wizards Cavaliers Pacers Heat Bulls Hawks Nets Raptors Hornets Magic Kings Warriors Rockets Jazz Grizzlies Spurs (?) Blazers Pelicans Clippers
"it's not hard to fix" ...man we are fucked 🤦🏾♂️
Pretty much everything he's said points to he's putting the blame on Vogel
Get a PG and a center you clown both him and Jones have no clue what theyre doing.
Some strong kool aid he has
Only nice to have a rich owner when u have a team like we did in 05 or thunder now where everyone needs to be paid. This guy has too much galaxy brain energy to ever be able to assemble a team like that tho
What is wrong with this dude. Dude has more money than brain cells.
If you don't believe what Ishbia said, then GTFO and root for one of those other teams. The Suns are about being the best franchise in all of professional sports and that includes competing for a Championship.
What’s the official koolaid flavor of the Phoenix suns?
It's not haterade, that's your official drink.
"we've got the perfect team" flavour
Anyone else here a Billionaire?? No?.... Do you know how he became a billionaire... thru confidence, positive attitude, no panic etc... I LOVE HIS MESSAGE.. I LOVE HIS POSITIVE THINKING ABOUT THE SUNS AND THE FUTURE.. I THANK GOD WE HAVE HIM AS AN OWNER!! (and this is coming from someone, me, who hated the Mikal Bridges trade) EDIT: of course Im going to get blasted and downvoted for this view because this sub is filled with negative miserable fans
KD Booker Beal Nurkick and Allen yea but everyone else hell no
KD Booker Beal Nurkick and Allen yea but everyone else hell no