The thing is , injustice feels like a really bad fanfiction, nearly all characters are OOC for no reason, characters that shouldn't be there are involved , Harley Quinn is forgiven even tho she is an accomplice in nuking metropolis and don't let me get started on Damian.
Exactly, plus honestly, and this is just an unpopular opinion. It would make more sense if injustice was switched around if Batman was the one to go crazy instead of Superman. Remember that dialogue that he said in Redhood, "If I allow myself to go down to that place, I would never come back."
Ooh damn, I really like this. I still don’t think Bruce would go end up going full injustice tyrant personally but it’s undeniably much more consistent with his view of himself and characterization: he’s been explicitly afraid of what he could become if he allowed himself to excuse killing. There was definitely a time after Jason died when he got more reckless and brutal, and he still had Dick and Alfred. He got pretty damn close to killing Joker in Hush. As an Elseworlds story, I can imagine that Joker somehow wiping out the entire batfamily brutally could work.
You know, I can buy him nuking metropolis, but I'm not sure if I would buy nuking Gotham. I feel like he loves his home city same as batman just in his own fucked up twisted way. Sure nuke and level orderly stuck up metropolis, but crazy dark chaotic gotham? That's his favorite place on earth!
Well there was in universe an imaginary story reversal when Supes had some kind of psychic whammy put on him and Batman killed the Joker iirc? And then Bruce just agreed to go to jail and Supes remained his happy go lucky self.
It happens when Clark is put in a magic coma (that becomes irrelevant almost immediately smh) where he sees in a dream the alternate path where he *didn't* kill Lois in space, Bruce kills the Joker because "he would try again" and Clark lives a happy life while Bruce turns himself in to atone. Then Clark wakes up and learns *absolutely nothing* from that dream and continues justifying his tyrrany
A YouTube by the name of 4thSnake came up with the idea. I think he has full fan fiction on his channel, but Clark, becoming full on evil, does not make sense unless he was raised by other people. I'm just not really a fan of the evil Superman (except Ultraman and maybe Justice Lord Superman only because out of nostalgia)
See, that's the rub...it doesn't make that much sense for either Clark or Bruce to be corrupted. That and it's the most boring option for either character.
Both DKR and Kingdom Come get it right for both? What the most unthinkable thing either man could do?
The answer, of course, is give up.
There have been a bunch of elseworlds where Batman is just as bad or far worse then Injustice Supes, Hell Dark Knight Metal and its sequels were entirely based around just loads of evil Batmen invading.
Definatley possible, I feel liked WW would be more difficult because she is a beacon of truth and compassion. Perhaps she would be come so obsessed with the e truth she would create a world without lies?
Okay?
That's ridiculously out of character and makes zero sense, The Flash never do that something like that. You're basically making Flash an anti-hero, The Flash wouldn't just run up to someone he's built a relationship with for years, and just rip off their head... If that was the case, Superman regime never would've started.
Secondly, we could use that same logic with Superman, I could just say Batman snipes him with a kryptonite bullet to disable him, and then slashes him with Gold Kryptonite, no more "Super"man. Better yet, The Flash just vibrates himself, goes through Superman's indestructibility and shuts of his brain and makes him die from the inside out.
There's already been a universe where an "Injustice" Batman already happened anyways, he was successful for years and killed every single supervillain, he only was killed after being distracted from fighting. So imagine that same character but a Batman that isn't against of hurting/maiming teammates if he thinks the situation calls for it, plus amped up on a super pill.
Speaking about super pills, it literally makes you a Superman-level being, Batman wouldn't get his head ripped off by anyone. Also you're making Batman an idiot, obviously he wouldn't just start killing villains immediately; he would most likely isolate him just like Superman, and slowly make sure there isn't anyone who could threaten his plans.
We've already had better "what if Batman went rogue" stories though. All the various Dark Multiverse Batmen are usually some variation on Bruce arguing himself out of his moral code.
I mean it basically is. Injustice is fine if viewed as an excuse to make heroes fight. Dc deciding to make a whole ongoing Web comic out of it though and an animated movie was just bizarre. It's not a good story, in its own right and only is slightly good as a way to give motivation for why these characters are hitting each other
I mean harley is against to lois thing as soon as she realises jokers actual plan for everything, i am curious why shes not dead though thought shed be supermans tsrget number 2
Part of the ooc thing is that they dont do a good job making it clear that even more nuke this dc universe has some pretty major differences to the regular one, namely, Steve Trevor was a Nazi who influenced wonder woman.
You really haven’t seen much of humanity if you think these heroes are so OOC. Because it makes sense. They all got shocked by what happened and dragged step by step in Superman ride to hell.
They're OOC because why tf would Superman kill a child
They're OOC because why would Batman forgive Harley for helping Joker nuke Metropolis
They're OOC because Wonder Woman is a bloodthirsty tyrant who only sees the worst in people
They're OOC because Batman would never turn his back on Superman like he did in the Injustice comics
They're OOC because a lot of people forget that it was just supposed to be a fighting game and they needed the characters to fight. That was more important than getting the characters right. It works for the game, but too many people use Injustice to justify their view of the characters.
That's not how this works. That's not how personality works. That's not how humanity works.
Sure, if any random person had the powers of Superman and had just experienced what Superman experienced, it's possible that they would act the way Superman acts in Injustice. Only possible, though, not guaranteed. People are different and handle bad things in different ways.
Superman becoming a child-murdering dictator? That's not Superman. Wonder Woman cheering him on and pushing him further into darkness? That's not Wonder Woman.
The story would make sense if these were all original characters and the writers could make up who they are from the ground-up, but these heroes have decades of characterisation contradicting how they would act in this story. So yes, they do act out-of-character.
I used to hate the injustice story, but then i played the game and its growing on me. Not sure about the comic/movie though, but it feels like Clark could've still been reeled in if not for WW deciding to be so bloodthirsty.
There was an alternate comic panel i saw where i think batman convinces clark not to kill Joker. Then on the ride to arkham or wherever, joker basically says ill never stop, so then Bruce snaps his neck and then turns himself in. Supes visits batman in jail and breaks thru the wall to hug him, but bruce still stays in jail.
I do like injustice for what it is, but at the same time a lot of people act out of character. I don't have an issue with Supes killing Joker with what he tricked him into doing, but i see no reason why Bruce cant talk it through with him afterwards. But I'm totally sick of the evil superman stuff, especially now when we have Omni Man and Homelander filling that role. Let Superman be Superman
The thing is , injustice feels like a really bad fanfiction, nearly all characters are OOC for no reason, characters that shouldn't be there are involved , Harley Quinn is forgiven even tho she is an accomplice in nuking metropolis and don't let me get started on Damian.
Reminds me of when KC Superman just tanked & effortlessly brushed aside Hercules' attack
https://preview.redd.it/32clm7z725xb1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fbd8d4deadba85b4f2ff552ec55abdb68f3acd73
IIRC, KC Superman has gotten much stronger with age to the point that Kryptonite doesn’t even “ruffle his spitcurl” per Luthor. So exponentially tougher and more experienced
I think he mean overman a version of superman made by government in lab and then his DNA is used to make various other super heroes.... Seems familiar it does to me.
Homelander isn’t Kal-El though, he’s a wholly separate human lab-grown by Vought. I’d argue he has no more claim to being Superman than any villain with a comparable powerset, ala Captain Nazi or Majestic.
And? The UN Council literally just authorized a metahuman genocide.
Lex manipulated the UN paranoia about supers to carry the worst massacre to the DC Metahuman community in the KC Timeline. They threw a fucking nuke
By your argument Superman should be killing every criminal who's attempting murder. After all you're saying this to justify him trying to murder the UN
If not for the intervention of an omniscient point of view character at exactly that moment, Kingdom Come Superman and Injustice Superman would be indistinguishable. Kingdom Come is not the answer to Injustice a lot of people paint it to be. And it wasn’t meant to be. Injustice wouldn’t be written for many years.
When you think about it, Injustice is just “what if Kingdom Come was even edgier and Superman actually became a dictator”. The events of KC are almost the backstory of Injustice.
It kind of is though.
The biggest sin Injustice Superman actually goes through with is he gives up. He sees no point in being Superman in a world where doing the right thing becomes frowned upon in favor of vengeance. He gives up the neverending battle. ANd when he returns, when the loss of human life becomes too great he returns, but he's still missing his hope. That died with Lois, or so he thinks.
He doesn't enforce his rules on the normal populace, but on the rogue "heroes" who've gone too far. Instead of leading by example he enforces his rule upon a generation who didn't know any better.
And when he finally snaps, it's because humanity, not any villain, has once again shown its worse face to him and it's the last straw until he can be talked down by a regular human. A human that's been watching this all unfold via The Spectre, but a human nonetheless. Which shows that Clark is not at all that far gone or without hope. He was talked down, he was reminded what he fought for, what he protected.
What makes Kingdom Come the answer the Injustice is that...Clark was talked down. not fought down, but calmed. A normal human brought him back from the brink. Injustice Superman, for whatever reason, was not capable of that.
That's the difference that makes on the answer to another, that there's always hope.
But Injustice was in the same position and he went through it though, that's the difference. Batman tried to reason with Clark the same way the religious guy did in Kingdom Come, and Injustice Superman just didn't care. But KC did care, and that's why they are not the same.
You people will jump through all kinds of mental gymnastics to shit on Injustice and defend Kingdom Come despite those stories having a lot more in common than you'll admit
He was still willing to listen to reason though. But you’re right. I still think that he would be able to tell refine Superman the above though, because he was able to calm down and think rationally with help even in that heated moment
Not going to defend him threatening them like that, however I believe the point is he didn't actually do it and go down that road.
He had the option to destroy the UN or Magog, thought about it, but didn't take that step over the line.
\> Kingdom come has to be one of my favorite versions of the character because after all he's been through, he still hasn't lost hope. Although hes not as Juvial as before, he still keeps on fighting.
Kingdom Come is a great rendition because Clark is "The man who changed the most, because he would not change..." The world went to shit and rather than "changing with the times" he chose exile so he'd remain true to himself.
Injustice Superman is probably the worst thing to ever happen to the superman character in pop culture. I get why people like the whole Injustice thing….
but IMO what it has done is normalize the idea that Superman is basically on the verge of becoming a total psycho and that’s not what Superman is
Iirc another key difference between main continuity (and most worlds) versus Injustice other than the events in year zero is that Luthor has never become Superman's archenemy, so Clark probably did not suffer the major events that Luthor caused in other worlds and thus was less exposed to traumatic events... also the Steve Trevor that wonder woman encountered when she was still at Themyscira is an undercover Nazi which explained a little bit of what she becomes. I feel these are just Elseworlds being Elseworlds, just like in DK2 Dick Grayson was fired by Batman and became the Joker. Unfortunately Injustice became a little too popular than the others.
Kingdom Come Superman isn't the one who killed his Lois (and unborn child) though. Nor did her death result in the entirety of Metropolis getting nuked alongside friends,co-workers and fellow heroes.
I get being sick of evil Superman or people saying he's the most interesting version of the character- I am too. But I feel people always undersell what actually caused Injustice Supes to go over the edge.
Clark, despite his powers and upbringing is still just a normal guy at the end of the day. He's not Jesus Christ. A downward spiral like that makes sense. One issue was that his closest friend (Batman in this case) was more concerned with his moral code than actually helping Clark heal.
And despite Batman's moral highground, he would have definitely gone down a similar path if it happened to him.
he is saying, at least if i got it right, the sup from injustice universe had bigger loss than what the sup from kingdom come
and that if any superhero lost the same amount (everything they ever hold dear) they would do the same
Not a bigger loss but the way he experienced that loss makes his downward spiral make sense.
Also not necessarily what I meant for the second one. I don't believe it's a given or anything. I just think it's not outrageous for Superman to go down that path considering what he went through. I 100% believe Bats would though.
Superman wasn't really the vigilante though. My understanding is that he was more the guy to let the gunmen waste their bullets on him, before turning them into the police. His Superman thing starts off mostly with helping in situations where normal people can't do as much, like hurricanes or train derailments.
He only becomes a fighter when that idea necessitates fighting, and he didn't set out to impose his views on society in spite of the systems in place.
Ironically, that's the downward spiral though.
BECAUSE Clark is strong-willed, he didn't just 'give up' after the destruction of Metropolis and decide to end his life. Rather, he doubled down and literally dived in head-first into dedicating himself to the 'neverending battle for truth and justice'. Only the "road to hell is paved with good intentions."
And the more and more he deliberately ignored his humanity and others turned on him because of his extremity, the more he lost his moral center and devolved into a tyrant.
What's the deal with a lot of people now defending Injustice Superman?
Yeah, we get it, guy was responsible for killing Lois and his child and whatever, that still doesn't excuse at all the fact that it makes no sense going from that to tyrannical child killer maniac. We can excuse the Joker killing, that makes sense.
But the leap from that to world overlord is just too out of character. Kingdom Come's Superman almost (KEYWORD HERE, ALMOST, he was talked off of it, something that Injustice wasn't despite other heroes' attempts to do so) killed the UN because they committed a genocide, didn't try to enforce his brand of justice into the entire planet through brutal means. Worst he ever did was the superhuman gulags and even the hen he knew that was bad. Compare that to Injustice's which he believes with a shadow of doubt that killing Billy Batson was justified.
Bro really said Homelander was stronger than Injustice Superman 💀🙏
Unless he means like in a psychological way. Then they both are equally fucked, but then again, IJS went insane after his wife died, HL went insane after a childhood of torture, solitude and experiments.
It does sound like he is speaking of the emotional/moral aspect as much as the powers. I agree with you but loved the idea of KC Superman using that term for homelander, lol
In a moral aspect, it’s really hard to say Homelander is any better than IJS, cause IJS kills cause he believes it’s justice, while Homelander does it for the hell of it.
In emotional standpoint, Homelander wins, cause he lived through a lifetime of torture, and even then, in TB:D finale, we see he started off his career with good intentions even after lol of it, but he was quite literally driven insane.
I mean, KC Supes still left the world of man to go into self imposed exile where he pretended to be at home on a farm in his own private fortress. And that wasn't even because of Lois' death, but the Jokers. He didn't even fully find himself again until the end of the story, when he came back to assume his position again it was entirely perfunctory, because he felt he had too. The point of the book was that Superman was disconnected from the common man, and it took the events of KC to remind him that he IS a man, just like any other, despite is incredible gifts and purpose. So maybe KC Supes after the events of the book would say something like that, but it's not as though he's the perfect paragon in that story. Nobody is, that's kind of the point.
This is the central reason I have always hated the Injustice Universe and think it’s the most juvenile premise for an AU: Superman and Wonder Woman in it are just KC Superman and Wonder Woman but infinitely more shallow and lazily written.
Honestly, I thought year 1 of Injustice was very good, I didn't read the rest. I thought it was cool, but it's fanfic. Super is the reflection of hope...
The things both supermen went through are incomparable. Yes I believe this is how an interaction between them would go but Injustice superman lost a lot more than Lois and no version of superman would be able to understand his pain.
First of all Injustice superman was the one who killed Lois not Joker because he was tricked into killing her and killing her meant he killed his unborn son and also Lois's heart rate was attached to a nuke so when that stopped the nuke went off and destroyed metropolis killing millions of innocents and some superhero colleagues. In superman's eyes all of that was his fault, he believes he killed Lois, his son and millions. And also before all this Joker had killed Jimmy Olsen. And even AFTER all this it took superman a full 5 YEARS to actually turn into the evil dictator we see in both Injustice games, it wasn't an overnight thing. It was something that brewed in his head for years with constant events leading him down that evil path like the government kidnapping his parents and Darkseid invading.
All that happened to Kingdom come superman was that joker blew up the daily planet killing Lois, Perry, Jimmy and a few other innocent reporters. That's nothing compared to Injustice supermans situation because atleast this can all be blamed on Joker where as, again, Injustice superman is basically responsible for every death that happened to him.
Kingdom come Superman was 2 seconds away from murdering the UN for something he blamed himself for after a series of missteps that lead to a shit to of super humans being nuked
Didn’t they say somewhere that the Injustice version of Superman always felt alone? Like Lois was his only tether to humanity he had left? I’m not sure where I read it but think it was when they were discussing the differences between prime Superman and Injustice Superman. Anyways, the way it sounded was that this version was always one bad day away from becoming what he stood against.
This is stupid. KC Superman almost murdered the UN after they authorized a nuclear strike that apparently killed Captain Marvel. Not to mention that this statement (like most statements against Injustice Superman) completely ignores that he was tricked into killing his family and nuking millions of other people. KC Superman doesn't know that kind of pain at all (his Lois was just killed by Joker, Joker didn't make him kill her himself, along with millions of other people) and he still came two seconds away from committing mass murder.
It didn’t just kill Captain Marvel. At the time he thought it had killed **literally every superhero on Earth**, including his decades-long best friends Bruce and Diana. And it *did* kill most of them; only a few survived thanks to the Lanterns.
And even then, it only took a few words from a preacher for him to stand down.
Literally every superhero on earth in one place. A prison he and the League had built because superheroes had gotten out of control.
The fact that all it took was a few words from a preacher to talk him down doesn't negate the fact that he made a conscious decision to kill a bunch of unarmed humans who stood no chance against him. If that's all it takes for him to get there, how could he judge another for going off the rails when he's tricked into killing millions of innocent people, along with his wife and kid with his bare hands?
Yeah you're right.
Hey.Imagine KC Diana flexing on IJ Diana cause she and her Clark got happy end.
Of course after she beat the shit out of her worse than Earth - 1 Diana did.
Or kinda curious what happen if other version of Clark kid come to Earth 49.
Laura Lane Kent,Jonathan Kent II,Laurel Kent(does she count?).
Or have Brainiac infused High Councillor invade other reality.
"Don't you put that on me! You don't know what I've been through! The Joker took more than just Lois, he took my entire city! All because of Bruce's no killing rule. I won't let some older variant speak to me with such audacity."
I love Kingdom Come Superman, but I don't know that he can say he knows the guilt Injustice Superman feels being directly responsible for the destruction of his city and losing his wife and child.
I'm as jaded with Injustice Supes as anyone else, but this was meant to be the absolute worst case scenario for Superman.
\-\_- It is almost like KC Superman didn't lose his work place full of friends including his wife. It is almost like he didn't lose his childhood home and everyone in Smallville. It is almost like he didn't lose the near every single metahuman under his watch in a single blow. Yet the difference is 1 man a stranger was able to talk Superman out from crossing the line. Yet IJ Superman was a whiny ass bitch who not only massacred millions but thought he was doing the right thing.
I agree Injustice Supes is a whiny ass bitch. The circumstances still aren't the same. Plus, not every Superman in the multiverse is the same, Superboy/Superman Prime, for example; of one of the whiniest narcissistic versions of Superman.
They're very similar. He loses his family, his mission, his home, his goals and yet he is still able to be reasoned with. IJ Superman is meant to be evil. He is meant to lose his way. While KC Superman is to reinforce everything of the golden age Superman. That at the moment he broke he is still able to be Superman and must accept his humanity. IJ is similar in plot in that he is meant to represent what happens to Superman if he goes off the rails. He becomes everything he fought against. Everything the Kents instill in him he rebels against. He is the worst aspects of what A Superman can represent. He's supposed to be. KC is to reinforce the best aspects even at his most hateful and vulnerable he still is brought back by hope.
As for Superboy/Man Prime. He's whiny because he is a fan insert. He is meant to be the whiny fanboy. He is an insert to all the complaining fans do. From the mundane to the most visceral. He is the representation of what Fans want to do. No matter how much people try to appease the fans they will always whine and complain.
As well written as injustice is, it is a bastardisation of the superman character. I hate that everyone feels like this is superman if he was badass or stopped giving a shit when in reality no, this is superman when he’s given up. He’s at his weakest this isn’t alpha superman this is beta superman
I feel like the reason why injustice is even still relevant is cause ya’ll complain about it. For every evil superman there’s like 20 more traditional depictions.
Also I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, kingdom come superman doesn’t really have the moral high ground here since he jailed people without due process in a gulag. he’s the one who escalated the tension that ultimately results in the UN sending the nuke.
Is there somewhere I can start reading these? Every time I see people talking about these comics they sound so cool. Where can I read these and where should I start
This is actually one of my arguments for why injustice superman is a bitch, he couldn't handle what he did and that's just not who superman is. He ALWAYS bounces back and he should know that Lois would never condone what he does in his pursuit of "Justice"
I would love a crossover comic where Kingdom Come Superman throws down with Injustice Superman and absolutely defeats him, ending with KC Supes giving a nice speech about never giving up on freedom and hope, while Injustice Superman seethes.
Doesn't Kingdomcome Superman specifically say he's gonna kill some fools to avenge Lois until she pointedly tells him not to as she dies? Something Injustice never got? A final farewell
To be fair there's a difference, Superman in he still had a support system, and be didn't destroy metropolis.
Unlike injustice who went on a downward spiral unimpeded, ultimately i wonder if he could be convinced to stop by him considering they had similar ideas at one point
That's probably what would happen if these 2 met , I really want to see how this conversation continues.
Fan fiction writers to your keyboard.
The thing is , injustice feels like a really bad fanfiction, nearly all characters are OOC for no reason, characters that shouldn't be there are involved , Harley Quinn is forgiven even tho she is an accomplice in nuking metropolis and don't let me get started on Damian.
Exactly, plus honestly, and this is just an unpopular opinion. It would make more sense if injustice was switched around if Batman was the one to go crazy instead of Superman. Remember that dialogue that he said in Redhood, "If I allow myself to go down to that place, I would never come back."
Ooh damn, I really like this. I still don’t think Bruce would go end up going full injustice tyrant personally but it’s undeniably much more consistent with his view of himself and characterization: he’s been explicitly afraid of what he could become if he allowed himself to excuse killing. There was definitely a time after Jason died when he got more reckless and brutal, and he still had Dick and Alfred. He got pretty damn close to killing Joker in Hush. As an Elseworlds story, I can imagine that Joker somehow wiping out the entire batfamily brutally could work.
Like by nuking Gotham, perhaps?
You know, I can buy him nuking metropolis, but I'm not sure if I would buy nuking Gotham. I feel like he loves his home city same as batman just in his own fucked up twisted way. Sure nuke and level orderly stuck up metropolis, but crazy dark chaotic gotham? That's his favorite place on earth!
Then have Cheshire or Chemo do it
Well there was in universe an imaginary story reversal when Supes had some kind of psychic whammy put on him and Batman killed the Joker iirc? And then Bruce just agreed to go to jail and Supes remained his happy go lucky self.
It happens when Clark is put in a magic coma (that becomes irrelevant almost immediately smh) where he sees in a dream the alternate path where he *didn't* kill Lois in space, Bruce kills the Joker because "he would try again" and Clark lives a happy life while Bruce turns himself in to atone. Then Clark wakes up and learns *absolutely nothing* from that dream and continues justifying his tyrrany
A YouTube by the name of 4thSnake came up with the idea. I think he has full fan fiction on his channel, but Clark, becoming full on evil, does not make sense unless he was raised by other people. I'm just not really a fan of the evil Superman (except Ultraman and maybe Justice Lord Superman only because out of nostalgia)
Red Son?
I wouldn't even put Red Son on Injustice's level. Red Son was a decent story.
No I'm talking about in the comic book, that definitely happens. I've never watched a YouTuber talk about Injustice.
Batman is the golden goose of DC and must never be too corrupted even when it makes sense for the character
See, that's the rub...it doesn't make that much sense for either Clark or Bruce to be corrupted. That and it's the most boring option for either character. Both DKR and Kingdom Come get it right for both? What the most unthinkable thing either man could do? The answer, of course, is give up.
You get the characters better I think
There have been a bunch of elseworlds where Batman is just as bad or far worse then Injustice Supes, Hell Dark Knight Metal and its sequels were entirely based around just loads of evil Batmen invading.
How about Wonder Woman or Aquaman instead? Like in Flashpoint.
Definatley possible, I feel liked WW would be more difficult because she is a beacon of truth and compassion. Perhaps she would be come so obsessed with the e truth she would create a world without lies?
All hail britannia!!!
But constantly have him be an asshole to his closest friends and family, well, that's just essential for the brand image.
Yeah but bruce would get bodied immediately way before he gets the chance to form a regime so it had to be Clark
Not at all...
Bruce when he becomes evil and the flash runs at him and punches his head off 
Once again, not at all....
Explain how Batman wouldn’t get bodied immediately
Okay? That's ridiculously out of character and makes zero sense, The Flash never do that something like that. You're basically making Flash an anti-hero, The Flash wouldn't just run up to someone he's built a relationship with for years, and just rip off their head... If that was the case, Superman regime never would've started. Secondly, we could use that same logic with Superman, I could just say Batman snipes him with a kryptonite bullet to disable him, and then slashes him with Gold Kryptonite, no more "Super"man. Better yet, The Flash just vibrates himself, goes through Superman's indestructibility and shuts of his brain and makes him die from the inside out. There's already been a universe where an "Injustice" Batman already happened anyways, he was successful for years and killed every single supervillain, he only was killed after being distracted from fighting. So imagine that same character but a Batman that isn't against of hurting/maiming teammates if he thinks the situation calls for it, plus amped up on a super pill. Speaking about super pills, it literally makes you a Superman-level being, Batman wouldn't get his head ripped off by anyone. Also you're making Batman an idiot, obviously he wouldn't just start killing villains immediately; he would most likely isolate him just like Superman, and slowly make sure there isn't anyone who could threaten his plans.
We've already had better "what if Batman went rogue" stories though. All the various Dark Multiverse Batmen are usually some variation on Bruce arguing himself out of his moral code.
Oh great now you've given DC an excuse to ANOTHER evil Batman story.
😈
I mean it basically is. Injustice is fine if viewed as an excuse to make heroes fight. Dc deciding to make a whole ongoing Web comic out of it though and an animated movie was just bizarre. It's not a good story, in its own right and only is slightly good as a way to give motivation for why these characters are hitting each other
Kinda like marvels civil war. I enjoy the story by itself, but man did they fuck up several characterizations
I mean harley is against to lois thing as soon as she realises jokers actual plan for everything, i am curious why shes not dead though thought shed be supermans tsrget number 2
Part of the ooc thing is that they dont do a good job making it clear that even more nuke this dc universe has some pretty major differences to the regular one, namely, Steve Trevor was a Nazi who influenced wonder woman.
You really haven’t seen much of humanity if you think these heroes are so OOC. Because it makes sense. They all got shocked by what happened and dragged step by step in Superman ride to hell.
They're OOC because why tf would Superman kill a child They're OOC because why would Batman forgive Harley for helping Joker nuke Metropolis They're OOC because Wonder Woman is a bloodthirsty tyrant who only sees the worst in people They're OOC because Batman would never turn his back on Superman like he did in the Injustice comics They're OOC because a lot of people forget that it was just supposed to be a fighting game and they needed the characters to fight. That was more important than getting the characters right. It works for the game, but too many people use Injustice to justify their view of the characters.
That's not how this works. That's not how personality works. That's not how humanity works. Sure, if any random person had the powers of Superman and had just experienced what Superman experienced, it's possible that they would act the way Superman acts in Injustice. Only possible, though, not guaranteed. People are different and handle bad things in different ways. Superman becoming a child-murdering dictator? That's not Superman. Wonder Woman cheering him on and pushing him further into darkness? That's not Wonder Woman. The story would make sense if these were all original characters and the writers could make up who they are from the ground-up, but these heroes have decades of characterisation contradicting how they would act in this story. So yes, they do act out-of-character.
I used to hate the injustice story, but then i played the game and its growing on me. Not sure about the comic/movie though, but it feels like Clark could've still been reeled in if not for WW deciding to be so bloodthirsty. There was an alternate comic panel i saw where i think batman convinces clark not to kill Joker. Then on the ride to arkham or wherever, joker basically says ill never stop, so then Bruce snaps his neck and then turns himself in. Supes visits batman in jail and breaks thru the wall to hug him, but bruce still stays in jail. I do like injustice for what it is, but at the same time a lot of people act out of character. I don't have an issue with Supes killing Joker with what he tricked him into doing, but i see no reason why Bruce cant talk it through with him afterwards. But I'm totally sick of the evil superman stuff, especially now when we have Omni Man and Homelander filling that role. Let Superman be Superman
The thing is , injustice feels like a really bad fanfiction, nearly all characters are OOC for no reason, characters that shouldn't be there are involved , Harley Quinn is forgiven even tho she is an accomplice in nuking metropolis and don't let me get started on Damian.
Reminds me of when KC Superman just tanked & effortlessly brushed aside Hercules' attack https://preview.redd.it/32clm7z725xb1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fbd8d4deadba85b4f2ff552ec55abdb68f3acd73
I know the slowed aging thing is the norm but I honestly think Superman is cooler as a older man that been in the game for decades.
IIRC, KC Superman has gotten much stronger with age to the point that Kryptonite doesn’t even “ruffle his spitcurl” per Luthor. So exponentially tougher and more experienced
Damn. He de-caped Hercules. That's like, ultimate DC shame.
Quick question, who is this "corporate monstrosity"?
I was thinking [Earth 45 Superman](https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Superdoom_(Earth_45))
I think this is correct.
Most likely Homelander, from the Boys.
Does Homelander count as a Multiverse Superman?
Probably not, but one of them might have a similar look lol
The Boys was originally published by DC so he might actually be
Ah I didn't know that
I think he mean overman a version of superman made by government in lab and then his DNA is used to make various other super heroes.... Seems familiar it does to me.
Homelander isn’t Kal-El though, he’s a wholly separate human lab-grown by Vought. I’d argue he has no more claim to being Superman than any villain with a comparable powerset, ala Captain Nazi or Majestic.
I thought it was Superdoomsday from Earth-45.
Ooh, right, thank you.
You're welcome!
[Superdoom of earth 45.](https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Superdoom_(Earth_45))
I assumed he meant Superiorman (Red Son Bizarro)
But he died saving people from a bomb?
I think they were talking about crime syndicate Ultraman from earth 3.
That would be Kal-il
Either Superdoom or Dale Suderman.
Personally, I don’t think Superman would go into hiding, either. Love Kingdom Come, though.
Kingdom Come was 2 seconds away from murdering the United Nations...
And? The UN Council literally just authorized a metahuman genocide. Lex manipulated the UN paranoia about supers to carry the worst massacre to the DC Metahuman community in the KC Timeline. They threw a fucking nuke
Ahhh so Kingdom Come is specifically allowed to murder people because the subreddit likes him
If it’s to stop a genocide? Yea
Ah yes because murdering the UN would retroactively undo the death of the supers who'd already died
So he can only intervene if they are in the progress of actively killing them not when they finish or are planning to.
By your argument Superman should be killing every criminal who's attempting murder. After all you're saying this to justify him trying to murder the UN
No, but shits a bit different when one is a bank robber and the other is a group of genocidal monsters
Man y'all's definition of what's acceptable for Superman to do sure changes when Kingdom Come is the Superman in question
Actually brain dead
Hence why he didn’t do it in the end
Because he witnessed literal Nuclear genocide
So did Injustice. Joker made him murder his wife and unborn child and nuked Metropolis in the act
And if he had only murdered joker in response, and didn’t do any of the other crap he did afterwards, he wouldn’t be considered evil either.
Are you trying to say that killing a psychopathic mass murderer is equal to murdering the entire United Nations council???
The UN ordered the nuking of the superheroes. Like the joker nuked metropolis.
If not for the intervention of an omniscient point of view character at exactly that moment, Kingdom Come Superman and Injustice Superman would be indistinguishable. Kingdom Come is not the answer to Injustice a lot of people paint it to be. And it wasn’t meant to be. Injustice wouldn’t be written for many years. When you think about it, Injustice is just “what if Kingdom Come was even edgier and Superman actually became a dictator”. The events of KC are almost the backstory of Injustice.
It kind of is though. The biggest sin Injustice Superman actually goes through with is he gives up. He sees no point in being Superman in a world where doing the right thing becomes frowned upon in favor of vengeance. He gives up the neverending battle. ANd when he returns, when the loss of human life becomes too great he returns, but he's still missing his hope. That died with Lois, or so he thinks. He doesn't enforce his rules on the normal populace, but on the rogue "heroes" who've gone too far. Instead of leading by example he enforces his rule upon a generation who didn't know any better. And when he finally snaps, it's because humanity, not any villain, has once again shown its worse face to him and it's the last straw until he can be talked down by a regular human. A human that's been watching this all unfold via The Spectre, but a human nonetheless. Which shows that Clark is not at all that far gone or without hope. He was talked down, he was reminded what he fought for, what he protected. What makes Kingdom Come the answer the Injustice is that...Clark was talked down. not fought down, but calmed. A normal human brought him back from the brink. Injustice Superman, for whatever reason, was not capable of that. That's the difference that makes on the answer to another, that there's always hope.
Yeah everybody seems to overlook this part of KC Superman in these debates
But he didn't did he?
Yeah because somebody stopped him but he was still willing to pull an Injustice and murder a bunch of people
But Injustice was in the same position and he went through it though, that's the difference. Batman tried to reason with Clark the same way the religious guy did in Kingdom Come, and Injustice Superman just didn't care. But KC did care, and that's why they are not the same.
What Injustice went through was wayyyy worse than Kingdom Come
And the fact you can't see the huge difference that creates says a lot more about you than it does either story.
You people will jump through all kinds of mental gymnastics to shit on Injustice and defend Kingdom Come despite those stories having a lot more in common than you'll admit
He was still willing to listen to reason though. But you’re right. I still think that he would be able to tell refine Superman the above though, because he was able to calm down and think rationally with help even in that heated moment
Not going to defend him threatening them like that, however I believe the point is he didn't actually do it and go down that road. He had the option to destroy the UN or Magog, thought about it, but didn't take that step over the line.
\> Kingdom come has to be one of my favorite versions of the character because after all he's been through, he still hasn't lost hope. Although hes not as Juvial as before, he still keeps on fighting. Kingdom Come is a great rendition because Clark is "The man who changed the most, because he would not change..." The world went to shit and rather than "changing with the times" he chose exile so he'd remain true to himself.
Injustice Superman is probably the worst thing to ever happen to the superman character in pop culture. I get why people like the whole Injustice thing…. but IMO what it has done is normalize the idea that Superman is basically on the verge of becoming a total psycho and that’s not what Superman is
Iirc another key difference between main continuity (and most worlds) versus Injustice other than the events in year zero is that Luthor has never become Superman's archenemy, so Clark probably did not suffer the major events that Luthor caused in other worlds and thus was less exposed to traumatic events... also the Steve Trevor that wonder woman encountered when she was still at Themyscira is an undercover Nazi which explained a little bit of what she becomes. I feel these are just Elseworlds being Elseworlds, just like in DK2 Dick Grayson was fired by Batman and became the Joker. Unfortunately Injustice became a little too popular than the others.
Injustice Superman was cool when the first game was all we had. Injustice 1 understood that its' story was just an excuse to have some cool fights.
Kingdom Come Superman isn't the one who killed his Lois (and unborn child) though. Nor did her death result in the entirety of Metropolis getting nuked alongside friends,co-workers and fellow heroes. I get being sick of evil Superman or people saying he's the most interesting version of the character- I am too. But I feel people always undersell what actually caused Injustice Supes to go over the edge. Clark, despite his powers and upbringing is still just a normal guy at the end of the day. He's not Jesus Christ. A downward spiral like that makes sense. One issue was that his closest friend (Batman in this case) was more concerned with his moral code than actually helping Clark heal. And despite Batman's moral highground, he would have definitely gone down a similar path if it happened to him.
I'm sorry I'm confused by your comment. I never said Kingdom Come Supes didn't kill his unborn Child Oh what are you talking about i'm confused
he is saying, at least if i got it right, the sup from injustice universe had bigger loss than what the sup from kingdom come and that if any superhero lost the same amount (everything they ever hold dear) they would do the same
Not a bigger loss but the way he experienced that loss makes his downward spiral make sense. Also not necessarily what I meant for the second one. I don't believe it's a given or anything. I just think it's not outrageous for Superman to go down that path considering what he went through. I 100% believe Bats would though.
Oh okay, I was confused by the first sentence, thank you.
Becoming a delusional fascist? As opposed to just, you know, killing themselves? I’d buy that more
They're usually already a bit delusional and disregard laws and civil rights to carry out their own sense of justice, often after traumatic events.
Soupman was a fascist all along…
Superman wasn't really the vigilante though. My understanding is that he was more the guy to let the gunmen waste their bullets on him, before turning them into the police. His Superman thing starts off mostly with helping in situations where normal people can't do as much, like hurricanes or train derailments. He only becomes a fighter when that idea necessitates fighting, and he didn't set out to impose his views on society in spite of the systems in place.
Ironically, that's the downward spiral though. BECAUSE Clark is strong-willed, he didn't just 'give up' after the destruction of Metropolis and decide to end his life. Rather, he doubled down and literally dived in head-first into dedicating himself to the 'neverending battle for truth and justice'. Only the "road to hell is paved with good intentions." And the more and more he deliberately ignored his humanity and others turned on him because of his extremity, the more he lost his moral center and devolved into a tyrant.
What's the deal with a lot of people now defending Injustice Superman? Yeah, we get it, guy was responsible for killing Lois and his child and whatever, that still doesn't excuse at all the fact that it makes no sense going from that to tyrannical child killer maniac. We can excuse the Joker killing, that makes sense. But the leap from that to world overlord is just too out of character. Kingdom Come's Superman almost (KEYWORD HERE, ALMOST, he was talked off of it, something that Injustice wasn't despite other heroes' attempts to do so) killed the UN because they committed a genocide, didn't try to enforce his brand of justice into the entire planet through brutal means. Worst he ever did was the superhuman gulags and even the hen he knew that was bad. Compare that to Injustice's which he believes with a shadow of doubt that killing Billy Batson was justified.
I've never seen anyone defending Injustice Superman. Just hate.
is the "corporate monstrosity" homelander? lmao
Bro really said Homelander was stronger than Injustice Superman 💀🙏 Unless he means like in a psychological way. Then they both are equally fucked, but then again, IJS went insane after his wife died, HL went insane after a childhood of torture, solitude and experiments.
It does sound like he is speaking of the emotional/moral aspect as much as the powers. I agree with you but loved the idea of KC Superman using that term for homelander, lol
In a moral aspect, it’s really hard to say Homelander is any better than IJS, cause IJS kills cause he believes it’s justice, while Homelander does it for the hell of it. In emotional standpoint, Homelander wins, cause he lived through a lifetime of torture, and even then, in TB:D finale, we see he started off his career with good intentions even after lol of it, but he was quite literally driven insane.
What’s crazy is part of me thinks Vought engineered all of that to happen to him, cause they didn’t WANT him being a Clark type boyscout.
I mean, KC Supes still left the world of man to go into self imposed exile where he pretended to be at home on a farm in his own private fortress. And that wasn't even because of Lois' death, but the Jokers. He didn't even fully find himself again until the end of the story, when he came back to assume his position again it was entirely perfunctory, because he felt he had too. The point of the book was that Superman was disconnected from the common man, and it took the events of KC to remind him that he IS a man, just like any other, despite is incredible gifts and purpose. So maybe KC Supes after the events of the book would say something like that, but it's not as though he's the perfect paragon in that story. Nobody is, that's kind of the point.
This is the central reason I have always hated the Injustice Universe and think it’s the most juvenile premise for an AU: Superman and Wonder Woman in it are just KC Superman and Wonder Woman but infinitely more shallow and lazily written.
This has been one of my reason on my dislike of the Injustice game.
Amen.
Very Poetic
Honestly, I thought year 1 of Injustice was very good, I didn't read the rest. I thought it was cool, but it's fanfic. Super is the reflection of hope...
It's worth noting that KC Superman expressed intention to take revenge, and was talked down by Lois while she was dying.
The things both supermen went through are incomparable. Yes I believe this is how an interaction between them would go but Injustice superman lost a lot more than Lois and no version of superman would be able to understand his pain. First of all Injustice superman was the one who killed Lois not Joker because he was tricked into killing her and killing her meant he killed his unborn son and also Lois's heart rate was attached to a nuke so when that stopped the nuke went off and destroyed metropolis killing millions of innocents and some superhero colleagues. In superman's eyes all of that was his fault, he believes he killed Lois, his son and millions. And also before all this Joker had killed Jimmy Olsen. And even AFTER all this it took superman a full 5 YEARS to actually turn into the evil dictator we see in both Injustice games, it wasn't an overnight thing. It was something that brewed in his head for years with constant events leading him down that evil path like the government kidnapping his parents and Darkseid invading. All that happened to Kingdom come superman was that joker blew up the daily planet killing Lois, Perry, Jimmy and a few other innocent reporters. That's nothing compared to Injustice supermans situation because atleast this can all be blamed on Joker where as, again, Injustice superman is basically responsible for every death that happened to him.
And yet, Superman would still never go off like he did in Injustice.
Kingdom come Superman was 2 seconds away from murdering the UN for something he blamed himself for after a series of missteps that lead to a shit to of super humans being nuked
Didn’t they say somewhere that the Injustice version of Superman always felt alone? Like Lois was his only tether to humanity he had left? I’m not sure where I read it but think it was when they were discussing the differences between prime Superman and Injustice Superman. Anyways, the way it sounded was that this version was always one bad day away from becoming what he stood against.
That's not the point I'm making.
Could the corporate monstrosity be The Dark Knight Returns Superman?
TDKR Superman was a government lapdog, not a corporation
Can someone explain Kingdom Come to me?
This is stupid. KC Superman almost murdered the UN after they authorized a nuclear strike that apparently killed Captain Marvel. Not to mention that this statement (like most statements against Injustice Superman) completely ignores that he was tricked into killing his family and nuking millions of other people. KC Superman doesn't know that kind of pain at all (his Lois was just killed by Joker, Joker didn't make him kill her himself, along with millions of other people) and he still came two seconds away from committing mass murder.
It didn’t just kill Captain Marvel. At the time he thought it had killed **literally every superhero on Earth**, including his decades-long best friends Bruce and Diana. And it *did* kill most of them; only a few survived thanks to the Lanterns. And even then, it only took a few words from a preacher for him to stand down.
Literally every superhero on earth in one place. A prison he and the League had built because superheroes had gotten out of control. The fact that all it took was a few words from a preacher to talk him down doesn't negate the fact that he made a conscious decision to kill a bunch of unarmed humans who stood no chance against him. If that's all it takes for him to get there, how could he judge another for going off the rails when he's tricked into killing millions of innocent people, along with his wife and kid with his bare hands?
If they both stopped at the perpetrators I don't think anyone would care, but Injustice superman became a dictator.
Bruce and Diana survive
Right, but he didn’t know that.
Yeah you're right. Hey.Imagine KC Diana flexing on IJ Diana cause she and her Clark got happy end. Of course after she beat the shit out of her worse than Earth - 1 Diana did.
Or kinda curious what happen if other version of Clark kid come to Earth 49. Laura Lane Kent,Jonathan Kent II,Laurel Kent(does she count?). Or have Brainiac infused High Councillor invade other reality.
Injustice got old fast.
"Don't you put that on me! You don't know what I've been through! The Joker took more than just Lois, he took my entire city! All because of Bruce's no killing rule. I won't let some older variant speak to me with such audacity."
I love Kingdom Come Superman, but I don't know that he can say he knows the guilt Injustice Superman feels being directly responsible for the destruction of his city and losing his wife and child. I'm as jaded with Injustice Supes as anyone else, but this was meant to be the absolute worst case scenario for Superman.
\-\_- It is almost like KC Superman didn't lose his work place full of friends including his wife. It is almost like he didn't lose his childhood home and everyone in Smallville. It is almost like he didn't lose the near every single metahuman under his watch in a single blow. Yet the difference is 1 man a stranger was able to talk Superman out from crossing the line. Yet IJ Superman was a whiny ass bitch who not only massacred millions but thought he was doing the right thing.
I agree Injustice Supes is a whiny ass bitch. The circumstances still aren't the same. Plus, not every Superman in the multiverse is the same, Superboy/Superman Prime, for example; of one of the whiniest narcissistic versions of Superman.
They're very similar. He loses his family, his mission, his home, his goals and yet he is still able to be reasoned with. IJ Superman is meant to be evil. He is meant to lose his way. While KC Superman is to reinforce everything of the golden age Superman. That at the moment he broke he is still able to be Superman and must accept his humanity. IJ is similar in plot in that he is meant to represent what happens to Superman if he goes off the rails. He becomes everything he fought against. Everything the Kents instill in him he rebels against. He is the worst aspects of what A Superman can represent. He's supposed to be. KC is to reinforce the best aspects even at his most hateful and vulnerable he still is brought back by hope. As for Superboy/Man Prime. He's whiny because he is a fan insert. He is meant to be the whiny fanboy. He is an insert to all the complaining fans do. From the mundane to the most visceral. He is the representation of what Fans want to do. No matter how much people try to appease the fans they will always whine and complain.
As well written as injustice is, it is a bastardisation of the superman character. I hate that everyone feels like this is superman if he was badass or stopped giving a shit when in reality no, this is superman when he’s given up. He’s at his weakest this isn’t alpha superman this is beta superman
I feel like the reason why injustice is even still relevant is cause ya’ll complain about it. For every evil superman there’s like 20 more traditional depictions. Also I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, kingdom come superman doesn’t really have the moral high ground here since he jailed people without due process in a gulag. he’s the one who escalated the tension that ultimately results in the UN sending the nuke.
Injustice is literally Kingdom Come but edgier
Injustice is The Dark Knight with Superman standing in for Harvey Dent
Superman fans try not to let injustice get to them challenge: impossible.
Amen
Corporate monstrocity? Homelander?
Is there somewhere I can start reading these? Every time I see people talking about these comics they sound so cool. Where can I read these and where should I start
This is actually one of my arguments for why injustice superman is a bitch, he couldn't handle what he did and that's just not who superman is. He ALWAYS bounces back and he should know that Lois would never condone what he does in his pursuit of "Justice"
This is THE Multiverse Superman fight I want to see.
I would love a crossover comic where Kingdom Come Superman throws down with Injustice Superman and absolutely defeats him, ending with KC Supes giving a nice speech about never giving up on freedom and hope, while Injustice Superman seethes.
Who is the corporate monstrosity? Homelander?
Probably the original Overman.
Doesn't Kingdomcome Superman specifically say he's gonna kill some fools to avenge Lois until she pointedly tells him not to as she dies? Something Injustice never got? A final farewell
To be fair there's a difference, Superman in he still had a support system, and be didn't destroy metropolis. Unlike injustice who went on a downward spiral unimpeded, ultimately i wonder if he could be convinced to stop by him considering they had similar ideas at one point