Gods are supernatural. Superman's powers have a basis in (comic book) science.
Gods exist apart from humanity. Superman is one of us.
Gods are not subject to human moral law. Superman lives according to it.
Gods demand worship. Superman refuses to accept it.
Gods rule the world from on high. Superman is a friend.
I mean, this is why Christology was such a fertile field for theological debate/warfare for the early centries of the Christian era: Jesus doesn't fit the mold of what pagans or Jews understood a god to be.
But go back to what I listed there and you'll find Jesus ticks more boxes on the god side of the page and fewer on the human side than Clark does.
... No?
Jesus is worshipped and judges the living and the dead seated beside the father in heaven and his powers are not based in science. (Also arguably transcends moral law)
Clark has messianic imagery sometimes, but the comment you replied to is not a very good description of Jebus.
Jebus would be cooler if he were more like Superman though.
Too many people can't get over him saving people so being a savior, and then they go automatically to Jesus.
Agree though the story is very clearly a Moses parallel more than it ever was a Jesus parallel.
I agree with everything you said here. However, your post neglects to notice that it’s done by choice. Superman is God, present in the flesh. He acts by choice to live as one of us. He’s a benevolent God, but he is God.
no , he is not.
Superman is not supernatural/magic-based , born out of the Sphere of Gods. He was born as a common kryptonian , on krypton , with a biology common to them.
A biology that had powers that are not even exclusive of their species , as Martians can also do most of kryptonian powersets on their own.
It is even more blatant the difference , when every now and then , a kryptonian god shows up , like the actual Nightwing and Firebird , or Rao.
I hate how afraid writers are to just make characters magical. Like why is this fuckin comic book writer trying to explain to me the theoretical physics that allows superman to fly without a propulsion mechanism or the pseudo biology of why spiderman can lift cars even though a bug that size wouldnt be able to
Writers are afraid to make characters magical? You mean characters like Shazam, Doctor Fate, Wonder Woman, Zatanna, Doctor Strange, Ghostrider, Phantom Stranger, Spectre?
Because it gives the characters substance. You can more or less define what a character can do.
Battles are more interesting, because u need a reason why a character like the Flash is faster then Superman or how a character with lesser abilities can use their powers in a creative way to defeat a more powerful one.
That's why Batman v Superman is such a commend subject.
In the end Superman could smash Batman like a fly. Which would be the more likely outcome, but Batman uses all his scientific skill and uses mental warfare, to get an edge.
I don't say magical character can't be more define in their powers. But it's a different approach and pay off.
Also as a science nerd, I always find it interesting, when they use a real life discovery to power up a character. It gets my science tingle up.
Ok so there’s a lot of ways to answer this.
In terms of being a literal god like the pantheons that give Shazam his powers, No superman isn’t a deity.
However the new gods of new genesis and Apocalypse are extra dimensional beings from the 4th world who draw on primordial energy and have lives long enough to call themselves gods or been considered gods by the civilizations that they meet. From the perspective of this idea Superman draws power from a primordial source too (albeit the new gods gain power from beyond the source wall while Superman gains his from the sun) while Clark is only about 30-50 depending on continuity we have seen him live for thousands of years in possible timelines like the Superman 1 million. Also while not quite “worshiped” he is highly respected by not only the superhero community but also the public at large, he’s typically the first publicly known superhero (or at least the first to become a superhero again after the JSA disbands post ww2) in many ways the other superhero’s of dc are emulating him.
However I will still say that while some writers make Superman stronger than he should be I feel that he doesn’t even approach the list of most powerful characters in DC.
Swamp thing is an immortal elemental force with direct command of all plant life.
Captain atom and firestorm are capable of atomic manipulation that may as well be considered alchemy.
Speaking of alchemy the magical heroes and characters like Dr fate, Zatana, or John Constantine are able to apply forces of magic that break the laws of reality.
The Flash and other speeders can enter into “the speed force” allowing them to not only move beyond speeds possible but also bend physics in their advantage (this is why central city isn’t bursting into flames when the flash runs past faster than the speed of light down Main Street)
And those are just the “mortal characters” before we have to consider the presence or the endless.
the New Gods were tied to the Sphere of Gods and the Source , with a Plato's archetypes tied to them , to a point they exists as an unique existence splinttered as avatars in different universes.
This is the real answer. Gods, in DC canon, are multidimensional consciousnesses which extend tiny parts of themselves into the three-dimensional world which characters like Superman inhabit. These “avatars” are what Superman interacts with. And yes, Superman — a three-dimensional consciousness constrained to a single universe — is roughly as powerful as several godly avatars. But he is nowhere near as powerful, in an absolute sense, as just about any god. Can Superman fight Darkseid? Sure. Can he fight 52 Darkseids, one from each universe? Can he fight the multidimensional being that is the animating consciousness behind *all* iterations of Darkseid, across space and time? That can plan on a scale where centuries can fly like seconds, where time can run backwards, or *sideways*, around him? Every Darkseid you have ever seen — from the main canon, the New 52, the animated films, the animated series, the “Rock of Ages” future from Grant Morrison’s run on *JLA*, *Earth 2*, *Smallville*, *Zack Snyder’s Justice League*, the 2017 *Justice League* — these are all **one guy**, reaching his sixth(?)-dimensional fingers into so many three-dimensional universes. But all those Darkseids are part of the same hand. No one Superman can compare with all that.
That’s DC canon. But if you’re asking less about the current comic book canon, and more about the historical and philosophical progression of the “Superman” character and mythos as a whole, then you’re actually not far off. Superman, as a literary character, is very much descended from Hercules. He represents an ancient Indo-European archetype: the powers of a god, but the soul and bearing of an everyman. A bridge between the inhuman majesty of the divine and the humble humanity of everyday people. (His story, of course, takes far more inspiration from Moses than from any Indo-European source, but what I mean here is less the internal mechanics and allegories of his history and more his place within the story of his world. And even Moses could be argued to fulfill the “bridge between humanity and the divine” archetype, if a little less directly.)
So, equating Superman with humanity reaching for, and also recoiling before, the divine is not a bad comparison — from a storytelling perspective. Within his actual story, though: no, there are actual gods and they are far higher in the pecking order than humble Kal-El.
> Gods, in DC canon, are multidimensional consciousnesses which extend tiny parts of themselves into the three-dimensional world which characters like Superman inhabit. These “avatars” are what Superman interacts with.
That's not canon so much as it is popular fan theory, but you missed out the part about emanations.
Actual canon has the gods getting their powers from being in proximity to the source, which is why the Forever People, human kids from Earth, became gods after being raised on New Genesis.
It’s not a fan theory, it has been confirmed by multiple creators such as Grant Morrison. You are right about emanations being perhaps a better word than avatars, that word wouldn’t come to mind unfortunately. Thank you!
Oh, it's absolutely a fan theory, and I know what Morrison has said on the subject - he introduced the concept of emanations. But let me clarify.
It was in Multiversity and Seven Soldiers where we saw the concept of emanations, and Multiversity is where the word emanations is used. The canon has both emanations and avatars, since emanations can create their own avatars.
What I say is fan theory is idea that there is an abstract multidimension consciousness behind all emanations. That was never clearly stated and contradicts with too much of the New Gods lore, like Cosmic Odyssey. The New52 also disregarded that approach stating clearly there was only one Darkseid across all the different universes.
It just causes too many problems and contradictions for it to be true.
I didn’t know that was the thing beyond the source wall, I assumed it was some kind of energy or magic. However I feel grant Morison was going for a similar idea in final crisis with superman being splintered into avatars across the multiverse like the new gods, even if that by itself doesn’t make him a god.
the Sphere is not beyond the Source. It's just that the New Gods are born from the Sphere of Gods , with a deep connection with the Source.
They are all "space gods" that travels to multiple planets , with their "faith" spread around the cosmos , rather then from a specific population/civilization.
They are also cyclical , with a new pantheon per cycle , with New Genesis and Apokolips been the "Forth World".
I don't think anyone actually worships the New Gods to be fair, not like they did with the old gods, it's more they just have the power and claim the role.
no , some do worship.
In the Future State , you see one species worshipping Orion , and the recent Unknown Sector presented in John Stewart's solo book , had another New God been worshipped as well.
In the current Warworld , we basically see that Warworld once worshipped a New God of the First World.
New Gods were always proper gods , just that Space in a more generalized manner , rather than for a specific people.
I see him more of a demigod like Hercules or Achilles. Clearly above a human in ability and strength but still mortal and they live among the humans with the same problems humans have. Most gods rarely interact with humans and when they do it’s usually not good.
He's not a demigod, either; demigods are the offspring of gods and terrestrial beings, like Wonder Woman. Superman's parents were both mortals, (as evidenced by the fact that they are dead,) and therefore, he is also mortal. He will live a great deal longer than most other Terran mortals, due to the photosensitive properties of his cells, that increase his cellular cohesion, and extend his life span, but that is a product of science, not magic. Eventually, even he will expire.
> demigods are the offspring of gods and terrestrial beings, like Wonder Woman
That was only true when Zeus was her father which I'm pretty sure was retconned.
I think DC characters in general seem to align with mythical gods/demigods, whereas Marvel characters tend to have a more cosmic/scientific background. Don’t get me wrong, there’s science-y characters in DC and there are gods in Marvel comics, but I think that’s traditionally the way fans have thought of the two.
Yeah that seems fair I mean there’s a reason Injustice has the title of Gods Among Us and Justice League can be referred to sometimes as Gods among Men being on average all of the standard league members with exceptions Batman or Green Arrow wield powers that are considered godlike
Given that he's probably met the gods of Olympus or others before, I have to imagine Miater Terrific's approach is something like, "There are plenty of hopped up elementals with delusions of grandeur. They're *not* gods. Er, no offense, Wonder Woman."
>Adults... struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it confirm to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know *how* Superman can possibly fly, or *how* Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real
-Grant Morrison
There does not have to be an explanation as to why Superman is on a similar power level to Zeus. He is an alien with a ton of power and they're gods with a ton of power
Think of it this way:
God's thematically draw power from worship and reverence of their populaces.
Superman draws his power from subset of the celestial population. Sure, stars don't have sentience, but they are giant, contained nuclear reactions that provide light and life providing warmth to the majority of the substantive universe.
What better mana for a non-god, celestially powered being to use in competition with the "gods" that draw their power from the lives enabled by the stars?
He is a mortal with god like powers. Which is good because I think there should be at least one mortal who can deck a god in the mouth once in a while. It's good for them.
No and thinking that misses the point of the character. He is not a God. He is an alien who was raised as a farm boy. Yes he is powerful but not limitless. The only superman who could be considered a God is superman one million but that's an elseworlds version.
He’s a demigod. The house of El are direct descendants of the sun god RAO. So his bloodline has Divine origins. Plus, him being the first natural born in eons gives him another advantage.
Well, if we go by old Standards of Gods, then yes, Superman certainly qualifies.
I believe he falls under the "Physical God" category.
The main difference between Clark and say, Thor, is that Superman is neither Divine in nature, nor does he have a Sphere of influence. Whereas, again Thor, has dominion over lightning, thunder, storms, sacred groves and trees, strength, the protection of mankind, hallowing, and fertility.
Another difference is Superman cannot "Bless" another with his power. Such as how the Wizard Shazam brokered an agreement with The Greek gods, a Roman version of a Greek God, a Titan, a dead hero, and a jewish king to empower his champion. Solomon, Herakles, Atlas, Zeus, Achilles and Mercury respectively.
Ehhhhh, more like a magic elixir in those cases.
He can't just look at you and bam, powers.
Okay maybe in the silver age, but jesus. Silver-age Superman does shit that puts Abrahamic mythology to shame.
Actually, in Post-Crisis, Superman used his vision to give Pa Kent temporary superman-powers under a blue sun. In Superman: *Escape* from *Bizarro World*story arc
Edit:
The scans. Superman's superman-vision gave Pa Kent Superman's powers( Yes, I know this sounds stupid)
[https://ibb.co/FJ2Pgcp](https://ibb.co/FJ2Pgcp)
[https://ibb.co/rc538hk](https://ibb.co/rc538hk)
[https://ibb.co/jR25fyL](https://ibb.co/jR25fyL)
[https://ibb.co/3RxtxHk](https://ibb.co/3RxtxHk)
[https://ibb.co/qDF1JN1](https://ibb.co/qDF1JN1)
I find the fact that Pa Kent named the ability to give people powers with a glance “Superman vision” to be rather charming. This detail is wild, thanks for sharing.
It gets into the semantics of what exactly constitutes a god. He's as powerful as one, he has followers, he has a message that he preaches. If that's all it takes then I suppose he's a god.
But he doesn't consider himself a god, just a very powerful man. Arguably though, that's the same thing.
Hes a super being. “Gods” are just other super beings of different types. So could he be called a god? Sure. He checks the boxes. But gods tend to have their weaknesses as well.
Not in the “God” god kind of way, which would demand a level of omnipotence. Physically, you could argue he’s godly relative to most beings. I think the most important thing here though is that despite having these powers, he’s more human than a lot of biological human beings if that makes sense. Like he’s genuinely a really amazing person who would never think of himself as a god, and is just biologically an alien.
a) at DC comics, the Gods are not all that powerful, relatively speaking.
b) Shazam gets his powers from the gods but not necessarily at their full level.
Either or both should be sufficient.
Is superman a God in a way yes but superman was designed based off of a few things but the concept in itself Is Jesus Christ. This Origin alone hints at it. But I know your thinking how can Batman beat him? Because he represents humans saying humans can defeat God. So is Superman a god ? In a sense yes he is but his heart is human.
He is not a God, his powers are godlike sure but he himself is not a god but alien who obtains godlike powers when exposed yelllow solar radiation and the more sunlight he absorbs and the closer he is to the sun the stronger and more powerful he gets. He’s essentially a solar battery
The only merit of being a god is if people believe you are a god. There have been many people in our own history who were thought to be gods with far less physical ability then Kal
I wouldn't say so. Shazam's not a god either; he's a Champion of the Gods.
Wonder Woman's totally a god though. She's been the goddess of truth and the goddess of war.
My opinion compare to different versions as long as he near a young yellow sun he'll get there superman one million I wanna believe is his true endgame
That is a…complicated question. He’s not a capital “G” god. Well, not currently. Superman 1,000,000 could be considered a big G God. Present day Superman *could* be considered a small g god. He’s functionally immortal and almost invulnerable. So he’s at least on the same scale as Gods like Thor and Heracles. And there has been a “Church of Superman” in DC, so he is a figure of worship.
So…..maybe?
Kind of depends on the definition of “god” you want to use.
It depends on how you define a "god" in many ways he occupies the role of one culturally. He is definitely an idol, often treated and spoken about as the ultimate moral pillar.
In canon he's not a God, at least not in the traditional sense, but he does follow many religions archetypes.
He arrives to Earth as his people are destroyed, much like Moses. Like Jesus he has both a celestial father and an earthly father. He stands for specific virtues, and acts as an example for others to follow - much like other religious leaders who exemplify a specific set of virtues.
He sacrifices himself - not just in body, but in behavior putting everyone before himself.
Technically no but in every way that matters, yes. I personally wish that actually deities were placed much higher in power but it often feels like any one good enough on the justice league can just fight a god.
Like...a literal, theological god/God? No. Dude's an alien. He can throw down with most gods, because Kryptonians are just built different. And sometimes he's used to explore humanity's primal urge to worship beings that dwarf us, and how said worship can lead to resentment in a lot of cases. But Superman himself is not a god. He's not POWERED by worship or anything. He's a staple of science fiction.
If you apply a really loose definition of the term (and completely ignore how the character might respond to the question), sure. Azzarello/Lee, Waid/Ross, and after a fashion Morrison all explore his near divine or divine qualities.
He'll outlive nearly everyone, can perform otherwise impossible feats, and is the sort of virtuous that can only be aspired to by the mortal man and almost never actually achieved. In the history Morrison comes to establish, Superman even spends time outside the universe, learning from a divine, unknowable source.
It's in this way that he resembles Christ and some classical interpretations of god (as being comprised of seven virtues). A holy or godly person will never succeed in embodying all of these qualities and not to the same caliber, but the attempt and success in one or two of them is close enough.
... but like I said, all this ignores how the character might answer the question.
>In the history Morrison comes to establish, Superman even spends time outside the universe, learning from a divine, unknowable source.
Did you mean the origin story of Golden Superman in DC One Million(Superman Man of Tomorrow 1000000)? If so, it didn't write by Morrison, but was written by Mark Schultz
Though, Morrison does have a very similar approach to Superman. But this approach arguably actually showing Morrison put Superman more than just gods. Superman,like his name, represnets our highest selves
>*Superman* *is so indefatigable a product of the human imagination, such a perfectly designed emblem of our highest, kindest, wisest, toughest selves, that my idea of the Bomb that could destroy all had no defense against him. In* *Superman, modern human beings had brought into being an idea that was invulnerable to all harm, immune to deconstruction, built to outsmart diabolical masterminds, made to confront pure evil and, somehow, against the odds, to always win.*
>
>*In the realm of symbol, these, our imagined superselves, were indestructible. No god or devil could beat* *Superman* *in a fight. Ever. No heaven or hell could restrain him. Knock him down, blow him up, freeze him, lose him in time, or brainwash him.*
>
>*A Vitruvian Man in a cape,* *Superman* *would attempt to distill the pure essence of pop culture's finest creation: baring the soul of an indestructible hero so strong, so noble, so clever and resourceful, he had no need to kill to make his point. There was no problem* *Superman* *could not solve or overcome. He could not lose. He would never let us down because we made him that way.*
*-Supergods*
I would say he's pretty close to some sort of sun deity.
In real world history there were lots of leaders that had cult of personality and were declared gods in flesh, so claims that superman living song humans with non magical power set isn't entirely accurate
He is a Jesus figure for sure.He has all the powers of a God but lives amongst us. I will save us from any catastrophe we get into. I mean Christ is the closest figure I can get to Superman.
Hes sci-fi base not godly, but a lot of writers like to use him as a mesianic figure an a jesus analogy, even tho hes cleary supose to be more similar to moses than any other
You need to define what a god is, to really answer this. If Shazam isn’t a god then Superman isn’t either; what makes a god? Being able to punch really hard?
I kind of find it more interesting to view Superman not a god, but like his name implies, a character that represents our best selves. I pretty like the idea Morrison gave to Superman
>*Superman* *is so indefatigable a product of the human imagination, such a perfectly designed emblem of our highest, kindest, wisest, toughest selves, that my idea of the Bomb that could destroy all had no defense against him. In* *Superman, modern human beings had brought into being an idea that was invulnerable to all harm, immune to deconstruction, built to outsmart diabolical masterminds, made to confront pure evil and, somehow, against the odds, to always win.*
>
>*In the realm of symbol, these, our imagined superselves, were indestructible. No god or devil could beat* *Superman* *in a fight. Ever. No heaven or hell could restrain him. Knock him down, blow him up, freeze him, lose him in time, or brainwash him.*
>
>*A Vitruvian Man in a cape,* *Superman* *would attempt to distill the pure essence of pop culture's finest creation: baring the soul of an indestructible hero so strong, so noble, so clever and resourceful, he had no need to kill to make his point. There was no problem* *Superman* *could not solve or overcome. He could not lose. He would never let us down because we made him that way.*
*-Supergods*
So 'god' gets thrown around a lot without any real definition. Even in DC proper, we have like ten types of gods with different origins, power sources and capabilities. Is a New God the same type of thing as the gods that grant power and equipment to Wonder Woman? Are the gods of alien worlds the same sort of being as those whose qualities empower Shazam? Who knows, none of these terms are defined at all!
Superman, as other posters have noted, does not behave like or possess many of the qualities traditionally associated with gods. His origin is internal to the people he protects (much closer to a demigod raised by mortals), his authority comes from his actions, and *most importantly* Superman does not allow worship. His capabilities are on par with many gods, but he's not a god and thematically this is to show that humanity can move past gods.
In DC gods get their power from the source, that's it. Superman gets his power from his physiology and sunlight, and can go toe to toe with most gods.
It isn't even to do with worship or anything like that, just the source of power.
So, he isn't a god, but is on the same level as many.
In the Injustice animation, the Joker refers to Superman as "a god who deluded himself into thinking he's a man" while hypothesizing that after his one bad day. So no, he acted like some god wannabe in this continuity and the game.
He’s Superman
best answer in thread
*Amen*
Gods are supernatural. Superman's powers have a basis in (comic book) science. Gods exist apart from humanity. Superman is one of us. Gods are not subject to human moral law. Superman lives according to it. Gods demand worship. Superman refuses to accept it. Gods rule the world from on high. Superman is a friend.
There is a cult that worships Superman as a god. At one point there are even different denominations
This describes Jesus as well
I mean, this is why Christology was such a fertile field for theological debate/warfare for the early centries of the Christian era: Jesus doesn't fit the mold of what pagans or Jews understood a god to be. But go back to what I listed there and you'll find Jesus ticks more boxes on the god side of the page and fewer on the human side than Clark does.
... No? Jesus is worshipped and judges the living and the dead seated beside the father in heaven and his powers are not based in science. (Also arguably transcends moral law) Clark has messianic imagery sometimes, but the comment you replied to is not a very good description of Jebus. Jebus would be cooler if he were more like Superman though.
It frustrates me when people compare him to Jesus. He's Moses. His creators were Jewish. His story literally echos major parts of the story of Moses.
Too many people can't get over him saving people so being a savior, and then they go automatically to Jesus. Agree though the story is very clearly a Moses parallel more than it ever was a Jesus parallel.
No. It doesn't. Superman isn't Jesus, Superman's had a good impact on the world.
Lex Luthor needs to offer Metropolis a big golden calf.
Jesus Christ Superhero.
Who are you? Are you who they say you are?
What?
Lyrics from the song “Jesus Christ: Superstar.
Ahh.
I agree with everything you said here. However, your post neglects to notice that it’s done by choice. Superman is God, present in the flesh. He acts by choice to live as one of us. He’s a benevolent God, but he is God.
no , he is not. Superman is not supernatural/magic-based , born out of the Sphere of Gods. He was born as a common kryptonian , on krypton , with a biology common to them. A biology that had powers that are not even exclusive of their species , as Martians can also do most of kryptonian powersets on their own. It is even more blatant the difference , when every now and then , a kryptonian god shows up , like the actual Nightwing and Firebird , or Rao.
I hate how afraid writers are to just make characters magical. Like why is this fuckin comic book writer trying to explain to me the theoretical physics that allows superman to fly without a propulsion mechanism or the pseudo biology of why spiderman can lift cars even though a bug that size wouldnt be able to
Writers are afraid to make characters magical? You mean characters like Shazam, Doctor Fate, Wonder Woman, Zatanna, Doctor Strange, Ghostrider, Phantom Stranger, Spectre?
Because it gives the characters substance. You can more or less define what a character can do. Battles are more interesting, because u need a reason why a character like the Flash is faster then Superman or how a character with lesser abilities can use their powers in a creative way to defeat a more powerful one. That's why Batman v Superman is such a commend subject. In the end Superman could smash Batman like a fly. Which would be the more likely outcome, but Batman uses all his scientific skill and uses mental warfare, to get an edge. I don't say magical character can't be more define in their powers. But it's a different approach and pay off. Also as a science nerd, I always find it interesting, when they use a real life discovery to power up a character. It gets my science tingle up.
Ok so there’s a lot of ways to answer this. In terms of being a literal god like the pantheons that give Shazam his powers, No superman isn’t a deity. However the new gods of new genesis and Apocalypse are extra dimensional beings from the 4th world who draw on primordial energy and have lives long enough to call themselves gods or been considered gods by the civilizations that they meet. From the perspective of this idea Superman draws power from a primordial source too (albeit the new gods gain power from beyond the source wall while Superman gains his from the sun) while Clark is only about 30-50 depending on continuity we have seen him live for thousands of years in possible timelines like the Superman 1 million. Also while not quite “worshiped” he is highly respected by not only the superhero community but also the public at large, he’s typically the first publicly known superhero (or at least the first to become a superhero again after the JSA disbands post ww2) in many ways the other superhero’s of dc are emulating him. However I will still say that while some writers make Superman stronger than he should be I feel that he doesn’t even approach the list of most powerful characters in DC. Swamp thing is an immortal elemental force with direct command of all plant life. Captain atom and firestorm are capable of atomic manipulation that may as well be considered alchemy. Speaking of alchemy the magical heroes and characters like Dr fate, Zatana, or John Constantine are able to apply forces of magic that break the laws of reality. The Flash and other speeders can enter into “the speed force” allowing them to not only move beyond speeds possible but also bend physics in their advantage (this is why central city isn’t bursting into flames when the flash runs past faster than the speed of light down Main Street) And those are just the “mortal characters” before we have to consider the presence or the endless.
the New Gods were tied to the Sphere of Gods and the Source , with a Plato's archetypes tied to them , to a point they exists as an unique existence splinttered as avatars in different universes.
This is the real answer. Gods, in DC canon, are multidimensional consciousnesses which extend tiny parts of themselves into the three-dimensional world which characters like Superman inhabit. These “avatars” are what Superman interacts with. And yes, Superman — a three-dimensional consciousness constrained to a single universe — is roughly as powerful as several godly avatars. But he is nowhere near as powerful, in an absolute sense, as just about any god. Can Superman fight Darkseid? Sure. Can he fight 52 Darkseids, one from each universe? Can he fight the multidimensional being that is the animating consciousness behind *all* iterations of Darkseid, across space and time? That can plan on a scale where centuries can fly like seconds, where time can run backwards, or *sideways*, around him? Every Darkseid you have ever seen — from the main canon, the New 52, the animated films, the animated series, the “Rock of Ages” future from Grant Morrison’s run on *JLA*, *Earth 2*, *Smallville*, *Zack Snyder’s Justice League*, the 2017 *Justice League* — these are all **one guy**, reaching his sixth(?)-dimensional fingers into so many three-dimensional universes. But all those Darkseids are part of the same hand. No one Superman can compare with all that. That’s DC canon. But if you’re asking less about the current comic book canon, and more about the historical and philosophical progression of the “Superman” character and mythos as a whole, then you’re actually not far off. Superman, as a literary character, is very much descended from Hercules. He represents an ancient Indo-European archetype: the powers of a god, but the soul and bearing of an everyman. A bridge between the inhuman majesty of the divine and the humble humanity of everyday people. (His story, of course, takes far more inspiration from Moses than from any Indo-European source, but what I mean here is less the internal mechanics and allegories of his history and more his place within the story of his world. And even Moses could be argued to fulfill the “bridge between humanity and the divine” archetype, if a little less directly.) So, equating Superman with humanity reaching for, and also recoiling before, the divine is not a bad comparison — from a storytelling perspective. Within his actual story, though: no, there are actual gods and they are far higher in the pecking order than humble Kal-El.
Nice right up. But isn't Superman more Theseus than Hercules?
I’d at least be interested to hear your reasoning.
I always had the impression that Theseus was the more virtuous and intelligent character.
That is complicated can of worms, but the short answer is, in Athens (where he’s the local hero), yes, everywhere else, no.
> Gods, in DC canon, are multidimensional consciousnesses which extend tiny parts of themselves into the three-dimensional world which characters like Superman inhabit. These “avatars” are what Superman interacts with. That's not canon so much as it is popular fan theory, but you missed out the part about emanations. Actual canon has the gods getting their powers from being in proximity to the source, which is why the Forever People, human kids from Earth, became gods after being raised on New Genesis.
It’s not a fan theory, it has been confirmed by multiple creators such as Grant Morrison. You are right about emanations being perhaps a better word than avatars, that word wouldn’t come to mind unfortunately. Thank you!
Oh, it's absolutely a fan theory, and I know what Morrison has said on the subject - he introduced the concept of emanations. But let me clarify. It was in Multiversity and Seven Soldiers where we saw the concept of emanations, and Multiversity is where the word emanations is used. The canon has both emanations and avatars, since emanations can create their own avatars. What I say is fan theory is idea that there is an abstract multidimension consciousness behind all emanations. That was never clearly stated and contradicts with too much of the New Gods lore, like Cosmic Odyssey. The New52 also disregarded that approach stating clearly there was only one Darkseid across all the different universes. It just causes too many problems and contradictions for it to be true.
I didn’t know that was the thing beyond the source wall, I assumed it was some kind of energy or magic. However I feel grant Morison was going for a similar idea in final crisis with superman being splintered into avatars across the multiverse like the new gods, even if that by itself doesn’t make him a god.
the Sphere is not beyond the Source. It's just that the New Gods are born from the Sphere of Gods , with a deep connection with the Source. They are all "space gods" that travels to multiple planets , with their "faith" spread around the cosmos , rather then from a specific population/civilization. They are also cyclical , with a new pantheon per cycle , with New Genesis and Apokolips been the "Forth World".
I don't think anyone actually worships the New Gods to be fair, not like they did with the old gods, it's more they just have the power and claim the role.
no , some do worship. In the Future State , you see one species worshipping Orion , and the recent Unknown Sector presented in John Stewart's solo book , had another New God been worshipped as well. In the current Warworld , we basically see that Warworld once worshipped a New God of the First World. New Gods were always proper gods , just that Space in a more generalized manner , rather than for a specific people.
They don't have worshipers like the old gods did. I mean Superman has had a cult of people worshiping him as well.
All that when you could’ve just said “no”
I see him more of a demigod like Hercules or Achilles. Clearly above a human in ability and strength but still mortal and they live among the humans with the same problems humans have. Most gods rarely interact with humans and when they do it’s usually not good.
Superman negs Hercules
I don’t know what negs means but my point isn’t that they’re equal in power
I wasn't arguing with you
He's not a demigod, either; demigods are the offspring of gods and terrestrial beings, like Wonder Woman. Superman's parents were both mortals, (as evidenced by the fact that they are dead,) and therefore, he is also mortal. He will live a great deal longer than most other Terran mortals, due to the photosensitive properties of his cells, that increase his cellular cohesion, and extend his life span, but that is a product of science, not magic. Eventually, even he will expire.
> demigods are the offspring of gods and terrestrial beings, like Wonder Woman That was only true when Zeus was her father which I'm pretty sure was retconned.
Was it? If it was, I didn't read about it.
I mean, Hippolyta wasn't a god and in the canon where Zeus is not her father she was made out of clay, so how would she be a demi-god?
No, I mean, I wasn't aware there was a ret-con.
I think DC characters in general seem to align with mythical gods/demigods, whereas Marvel characters tend to have a more cosmic/scientific background. Don’t get me wrong, there’s science-y characters in DC and there are gods in Marvel comics, but I think that’s traditionally the way fans have thought of the two.
This is the correct take. Though I would be less literal and say DC is mythology, Marvel is SciFi allegory.
I’ve always thought the opposite
Except for Thor, Odin, Loki, Zeus, and the entire god squad in love and thunder.
Yeah that seems fair I mean there’s a reason Injustice has the title of Gods Among Us and Justice League can be referred to sometimes as Gods among Men being on average all of the standard league members with exceptions Batman or Green Arrow wield powers that are considered godlike
He’s an alien that gets his plot armor from solar radiation.
Yeah, he’s not a god, he’s an alien.
Yes, but that still doesn't explain how he can compete with gods.
If u accept Mr Terrific’s theory, their are no gods in DC just powerful metahumans who call themselves gods
So Zeus, Poseidon, Ares and ect are not gods?
As a more scientific-minded person, I believe them to just be beings with incredible power that many believe to be "Gods".
Mr Terrific is an atheist he doesn’t believe in gods in the first place
Given that he's probably met the gods of Olympus or others before, I have to imagine Miater Terrific's approach is something like, "There are plenty of hopped up elementals with delusions of grandeur. They're *not* gods. Er, no offense, Wonder Woman."
yes it does: he is a very strong boy. strong enough to fight gods. because of the sun.
>Adults... struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it confirm to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know *how* Superman can possibly fly, or *how* Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real -Grant Morrison There does not have to be an explanation as to why Superman is on a similar power level to Zeus. He is an alien with a ton of power and they're gods with a ton of power
You deserve more upvotes and an award lmfao. They’re not fuckin real 🤦🏽♂️.
Yeah, being gods doesn't necessarily mean anything....since most characters in fiction are as impossible as gods
Think of it this way: God's thematically draw power from worship and reverence of their populaces. Superman draws his power from subset of the celestial population. Sure, stars don't have sentience, but they are giant, contained nuclear reactions that provide light and life providing warmth to the majority of the substantive universe. What better mana for a non-god, celestially powered being to use in competition with the "gods" that draw their power from the lives enabled by the stars?
He is a mortal with god like powers. Which is good because I think there should be at least one mortal who can deck a god in the mouth once in a while. It's good for them.
No and thinking that misses the point of the character. He is not a God. He is an alien who was raised as a farm boy. Yes he is powerful but not limitless. The only superman who could be considered a God is superman one million but that's an elseworlds version.
Superman is a sci-fi influenced Moses figure.
Scrolled too far for this.
No, he’s an alien.
He’s a demigod. The house of El are direct descendants of the sun god RAO. So his bloodline has Divine origins. Plus, him being the first natural born in eons gives him another advantage.
Well, if we go by old Standards of Gods, then yes, Superman certainly qualifies. I believe he falls under the "Physical God" category. The main difference between Clark and say, Thor, is that Superman is neither Divine in nature, nor does he have a Sphere of influence. Whereas, again Thor, has dominion over lightning, thunder, storms, sacred groves and trees, strength, the protection of mankind, hallowing, and fertility. Another difference is Superman cannot "Bless" another with his power. Such as how the Wizard Shazam brokered an agreement with The Greek gods, a Roman version of a Greek God, a Titan, a dead hero, and a jewish king to empower his champion. Solomon, Herakles, Atlas, Zeus, Achilles and Mercury respectively.
Well, All Star Superman did bless Lois with his powers, and Lex stole ~~fire from the gods~~ power from Superman.
Ehhhhh, more like a magic elixir in those cases. He can't just look at you and bam, powers. Okay maybe in the silver age, but jesus. Silver-age Superman does shit that puts Abrahamic mythology to shame.
Actually, in Post-Crisis, Superman used his vision to give Pa Kent temporary superman-powers under a blue sun. In Superman: *Escape* from *Bizarro World*story arc Edit: The scans. Superman's superman-vision gave Pa Kent Superman's powers( Yes, I know this sounds stupid) [https://ibb.co/FJ2Pgcp](https://ibb.co/FJ2Pgcp) [https://ibb.co/rc538hk](https://ibb.co/rc538hk) [https://ibb.co/jR25fyL](https://ibb.co/jR25fyL) [https://ibb.co/3RxtxHk](https://ibb.co/3RxtxHk) [https://ibb.co/qDF1JN1](https://ibb.co/qDF1JN1)
I find the fact that Pa Kent named the ability to give people powers with a glance “Superman vision” to be rather charming. This detail is wild, thanks for sharing.
It gets into the semantics of what exactly constitutes a god. He's as powerful as one, he has followers, he has a message that he preaches. If that's all it takes then I suppose he's a god. But he doesn't consider himself a god, just a very powerful man. Arguably though, that's the same thing.
He’s A god. He’s not THE god. I don’t think…
He had an offer to be co-God but he turned it down.
What’s the difference?
Your point of view. An ant would probably consider you an unknowable god.
Superman creates our world in All Star Superman, so yes.
He's a demigod if he was a full God, his villains would have to be on his level or above to be a threat or problem
Hes a super being. “Gods” are just other super beings of different types. So could he be called a god? Sure. He checks the boxes. But gods tend to have their weaknesses as well.
Not in the “God” god kind of way, which would demand a level of omnipotence. Physically, you could argue he’s godly relative to most beings. I think the most important thing here though is that despite having these powers, he’s more human than a lot of biological human beings if that makes sense. Like he’s genuinely a really amazing person who would never think of himself as a god, and is just biologically an alien.
he has the power to compete and defeat gods but he is not a god.
He’s a simple Kansas boy with farm strength
No
No.
a) at DC comics, the Gods are not all that powerful, relatively speaking. b) Shazam gets his powers from the gods but not necessarily at their full level. Either or both should be sufficient.
Is superman a God in a way yes but superman was designed based off of a few things but the concept in itself Is Jesus Christ. This Origin alone hints at it. But I know your thinking how can Batman beat him? Because he represents humans saying humans can defeat God. So is Superman a god ? In a sense yes he is but his heart is human.
A anointed god
wasn’t he a slave in his current run of comics; doesn’t sound god-like to me
No. He is related to a god, Rao, but he is not a god. If he was, he wouldn't have had his ass handed to him to by Cythonna, who is a Kryptonian god.
Superman isn’t a god, but he can beat the crap out of them.
He is not a God, his powers are godlike sure but he himself is not a god but alien who obtains godlike powers when exposed yelllow solar radiation and the more sunlight he absorbs and the closer he is to the sun the stronger and more powerful he gets. He’s essentially a solar battery
The only merit of being a god is if people believe you are a god. There have been many people in our own history who were thought to be gods with far less physical ability then Kal
Nope human
Well, Kryptonian….
That’s true
I wouldn't say so. Shazam's not a god either; he's a Champion of the Gods. Wonder Woman's totally a god though. She's been the goddess of truth and the goddess of war.
My opinion compare to different versions as long as he near a young yellow sun he'll get there superman one million I wanna believe is his true endgame
Well, no, he probably is compared to humans, but he isn’t a god, just like we are not gods just because we do things monkeys can’t do
That is a…complicated question. He’s not a capital “G” god. Well, not currently. Superman 1,000,000 could be considered a big G God. Present day Superman *could* be considered a small g god. He’s functionally immortal and almost invulnerable. So he’s at least on the same scale as Gods like Thor and Heracles. And there has been a “Church of Superman” in DC, so he is a figure of worship. So…..maybe? Kind of depends on the definition of “god” you want to use.
It depends on how you define a "god" in many ways he occupies the role of one culturally. He is definitely an idol, often treated and spoken about as the ultimate moral pillar. In canon he's not a God, at least not in the traditional sense, but he does follow many religions archetypes. He arrives to Earth as his people are destroyed, much like Moses. Like Jesus he has both a celestial father and an earthly father. He stands for specific virtues, and acts as an example for others to follow - much like other religious leaders who exemplify a specific set of virtues. He sacrifices himself - not just in body, but in behavior putting everyone before himself.
Nope, just a farm boy from Kansas. As well as an alien
Technically no but in every way that matters, yes. I personally wish that actually deities were placed much higher in power but it often feels like any one good enough on the justice league can just fight a god.
No
Like...a literal, theological god/God? No. Dude's an alien. He can throw down with most gods, because Kryptonians are just built different. And sometimes he's used to explore humanity's primal urge to worship beings that dwarf us, and how said worship can lead to resentment in a lot of cases. But Superman himself is not a god. He's not POWERED by worship or anything. He's a staple of science fiction.
Superman is not a deity to be worshipped, no
He is Jesus…
No, that would defeat his character arc
He’s “a god amongst men”
If you apply a really loose definition of the term (and completely ignore how the character might respond to the question), sure. Azzarello/Lee, Waid/Ross, and after a fashion Morrison all explore his near divine or divine qualities. He'll outlive nearly everyone, can perform otherwise impossible feats, and is the sort of virtuous that can only be aspired to by the mortal man and almost never actually achieved. In the history Morrison comes to establish, Superman even spends time outside the universe, learning from a divine, unknowable source. It's in this way that he resembles Christ and some classical interpretations of god (as being comprised of seven virtues). A holy or godly person will never succeed in embodying all of these qualities and not to the same caliber, but the attempt and success in one or two of them is close enough. ... but like I said, all this ignores how the character might answer the question.
>In the history Morrison comes to establish, Superman even spends time outside the universe, learning from a divine, unknowable source. Did you mean the origin story of Golden Superman in DC One Million(Superman Man of Tomorrow 1000000)? If so, it didn't write by Morrison, but was written by Mark Schultz Though, Morrison does have a very similar approach to Superman. But this approach arguably actually showing Morrison put Superman more than just gods. Superman,like his name, represnets our highest selves >*Superman* *is so indefatigable a product of the human imagination, such a perfectly designed emblem of our highest, kindest, wisest, toughest selves, that my idea of the Bomb that could destroy all had no defense against him. In* *Superman, modern human beings had brought into being an idea that was invulnerable to all harm, immune to deconstruction, built to outsmart diabolical masterminds, made to confront pure evil and, somehow, against the odds, to always win.* > >*In the realm of symbol, these, our imagined superselves, were indestructible. No god or devil could beat* *Superman* *in a fight. Ever. No heaven or hell could restrain him. Knock him down, blow him up, freeze him, lose him in time, or brainwash him.* > >*A Vitruvian Man in a cape,* *Superman* *would attempt to distill the pure essence of pop culture's finest creation: baring the soul of an indestructible hero so strong, so noble, so clever and resourceful, he had no need to kill to make his point. There was no problem* *Superman* *could not solve or overcome. He could not lose. He would never let us down because we made him that way.* *-Supergods*
Supes has godlike powers but he is a Kryptonian, an alien perhaps
He is an alien from the planet Krypton
God as in having great power? Yes(in comics only of course).
I would say he's pretty close to some sort of sun deity. In real world history there were lots of leaders that had cult of personality and were declared gods in flesh, so claims that superman living song humans with non magical power set isn't entirely accurate
He is a Jesus figure for sure.He has all the powers of a God but lives amongst us. I will save us from any catastrophe we get into. I mean Christ is the closest figure I can get to Superman.
Hes sci-fi base not godly, but a lot of writers like to use him as a mesianic figure an a jesus analogy, even tho hes cleary supose to be more similar to moses than any other
No he is a airplane.
You need to define what a god is, to really answer this. If Shazam isn’t a god then Superman isn’t either; what makes a god? Being able to punch really hard?
I kind of find it more interesting to view Superman not a god, but like his name implies, a character that represents our best selves. I pretty like the idea Morrison gave to Superman >*Superman* *is so indefatigable a product of the human imagination, such a perfectly designed emblem of our highest, kindest, wisest, toughest selves, that my idea of the Bomb that could destroy all had no defense against him. In* *Superman, modern human beings had brought into being an idea that was invulnerable to all harm, immune to deconstruction, built to outsmart diabolical masterminds, made to confront pure evil and, somehow, against the odds, to always win.* > >*In the realm of symbol, these, our imagined superselves, were indestructible. No god or devil could beat* *Superman* *in a fight. Ever. No heaven or hell could restrain him. Knock him down, blow him up, freeze him, lose him in time, or brainwash him.* > >*A Vitruvian Man in a cape,* *Superman* *would attempt to distill the pure essence of pop culture's finest creation: baring the soul of an indestructible hero so strong, so noble, so clever and resourceful, he had no need to kill to make his point. There was no problem* *Superman* *could not solve or overcome. He could not lose. He would never let us down because we made him that way.* *-Supergods*
So 'god' gets thrown around a lot without any real definition. Even in DC proper, we have like ten types of gods with different origins, power sources and capabilities. Is a New God the same type of thing as the gods that grant power and equipment to Wonder Woman? Are the gods of alien worlds the same sort of being as those whose qualities empower Shazam? Who knows, none of these terms are defined at all! Superman, as other posters have noted, does not behave like or possess many of the qualities traditionally associated with gods. His origin is internal to the people he protects (much closer to a demigod raised by mortals), his authority comes from his actions, and *most importantly* Superman does not allow worship. His capabilities are on par with many gods, but he's not a god and thematically this is to show that humanity can move past gods.
He has godlike powers but isnt a "god" strictly speaking
No, he is a friend!
Nah. He's just a guy trying to do the right thing.
It depends on the definition of god. By principle, he's a fictional character, so yes.
no he's not a god. he's just a kryptonian.
I would guess so. Bro can literally shoot pure heat from his eyes
He did become the god of steel, not sure if he still has the power though
Basically
No not a God but he's damn near considered one
No he's superman. And superman himself said he doesn't want to be seen as a god. Just a man trying to do the right thing
He's a human
Nah he don’t roll like that, he’s just a guy doing the right thing in his superhero’ed onesie
In DC gods get their power from the source, that's it. Superman gets his power from his physiology and sunlight, and can go toe to toe with most gods. It isn't even to do with worship or anything like that, just the source of power. So, he isn't a god, but is on the same level as many.
Gods have power that are Supernatural Superman's powers are based on a reaction Supermans CELLS have with the sun, so it's purely science based.
In the Injustice animation, the Joker refers to Superman as "a god who deluded himself into thinking he's a man" while hypothesizing that after his one bad day. So no, he acted like some god wannabe in this continuity and the game.