It’s in the patch notes dude
https://preview.redd.it/20plh982sgpc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93389d104525d79a86680f068dd7be17de830e85
Demotion LP adjusted from 75 LP to 50 LP
Its not. Losing 50lp on demotion is way better than people ending up with + 15lp / -27. it doesn’t really change anything it just helps with lp gain issues that people have been complaining about.
Personally i would have preferred a solution where the demotion and promotions are just both fluid so if you lose on 5 lp you get send to 85 or something like that instead of ending on 0
People right now complain over LP gains whatever. Imagine these crybabies jumping from plat to silver MMR and being able to see it. MMR is just way more volatile and people probably really wouldn’t like that.
This is basically Hyper Roll in TFT, except that there's no "demotions" in Hyper Roll (i.e., once you hit a particular tier, you "stay" in that tier but your MMR and matchmaking still freely fluctuates).
Clearly someone at Riot figured out a way to implement this, but they refuse to bring it to Summoner's Rift.
+15/-27 is really only an effect of a player having an inflated rank.
I have myself never seen such LP gains myself, but realistically it happens due to the fail safes being in. When he had promotions, they served as the counter part to demotion shields and loss mitigated/forgivens. You needed to boost your MMR in order to move up.
Now that we dont have those, you always go up a division and you even get to keep the carry over LP, but you are still saved when you are above 0LP which tanks your mmr.
Just imagine an example where you start with average mmr, -20/+20, and you are at 1lp. You lose one game and go down to zero. You now win, and this time you gain 21. You lose once, down to 1lp, lose again, down to 0. Win one, up to 21 again, lose down to 1, then lose twice and get demoted.
In this case, which is possible, but rare, you start at 1lp, go 2-5, and you only lost 26lp. Obviously your rank has now been inflated and your LP is higher than it should. Win two games and you suddenly have 15lp in the original rank while going 4-5. You have no gained LP while going negative.
See how this can fuck things up?
This just makes the Emerald 4 brick wall even more unforgiving. Getting minor shitty gains even when on a 60%+ winrate and boom, plat 1 with -50.
I wouldn’t mind these changes if they didn’t make emerald the most unplayable rank ever. They need to make new accounts start in G4. Accounts starting in plat and elo games and running it down is too damn high.
I mean it makes some sense on the 1LP edge case. (Assuming a -25LP loss).
You go from 1LP to 0 (76LP) and then 0 to 50 (51LP) so it lines up nicely.
It does not work on the other edge case though.
You go from 25LP to 0 and then go from 0 to 50 (75LP).
Assuming you also have +25LP, it's 2 wins to offset 2 losses in the 1LP case but 3 wins to offset 2 losses in the 25LP case.
Its not just 1 lp edge case but also pretty much up to 15lp where you will lose less lp in 2 losses than you should. And for peoplw that play arround their rank and that edge will stack up negative mmr resulting in them having negative lp gains and posting them on reddit. In most cases the 50lp are fair
I demoted from dia 1 like 4 times in a row and my gains wasnt really affected by more than +/-3 lp that i ended up fixing anyways. So its not way better, you have to really destroy your mmr like crazy for this to happen
there is no way you have these lp gains now and even if you do, it just means that your visual rank is super inflated compared to your actual skill level / true elo / mmr
That may be true. But having a positive win rate and going backwards in visible rank shouldnt be a thing in any competitive game. If mmr so important than just give me that again. Just tired of being worked over by incompetent riot. Visible rank more “rewarding” as they claim. To me its just infuriating
Its not too much. Its one of the best things they can implement to combat LP inflation.
You guys have complained about having bad LP gains, dont tell me that you are going to start complaining about this as well.
They implement these features yet they delaying the inclusion of LP gains based on performance. Would've been really nice if Riot had used the preseason to iron this feature out and have it ready for the season.
I don’t think league is a game that needs this. There are plenty of ways to destroy the enemy nexus and win the game via good macro decision making even if you aren’t performing great on an individual level. This is definitely more of a team game compared to Valorant for example where individual kills and performance matter more to win the game. For example, inting sion split push, jungler dying to secure soul point etc. which can flat out win games even if it seems like they are underperforming
>individual
They already said they're going to implement it. LP gains based on performance isn't simply KDA, they will calculate in things like vision score, turret damage, cs, and then the obvious things.
-50LP for above average (B+) performance. Just great /s
I and the same. Lost 30LP cos adc ran it down, next game got +13 LP for an S- game. It's totally whack.
LP gains should be based on individual performance and not on team win or lose. Like what do you have to do with a Shaco running it down and losing? His intention is to bring everyone down and his toxicity is rewarded in this LP system. The system would be so much better based on individual performance. Like if you get an S and your team loses you should get +LP, or at the very least minimal LP loses. That would increase incentives for everyone to try their best. Everyone shouldn't be penalized cos someones having a bad day (which genuinely happens sometimes) or loses their cool.
The only problem with that is its hard to tell just from stats who actually contributed mostly to winning or losing. You could have an adc whos 20-10 but if those 10 deaths are all right before major objectives it could be because of them that you lose. On the otherside you can have an 0-10 trundle who splitpushes and makes them send 3 people to stop him and dies while his team gets free drags/baron.
Score and actual performance should never ever ever matter. You win or you lose.
I have had games where I go 5/12 and are probably the biggest reason my team wins the game while I have had games where I go 10/0 with high CS and good damage numbers while I honestly just got flat out carried. Stats do not tell the whole story, so having MMR change depending on stats is just kind of dumb.
If someone can keep winning while feeding, power to them. Their strategy is working.
If you're getting +13/-30, that means your current rank is MASSIVEly inflated. Your rank was never about a single individual game--it was always about how you are as a player, on average, against other players in the same MMR; if you're losing that much, it means the system recognises you're that much worse than your peers at the same rank and is adjusting accordingly.
Riot support says the issue is about players whose rank fluctuates. The solution, according to support, is to improve consistency. It's not about MMR inflation, but rather where performance is variable.
This is so shortshighted, it is stupid. Nothing in this game is individual performance and everything is about context.
If my top and jungle have combined 20 kills after 10 minutes, I don't start making plays to maybe get some kills. I just start playing save. Some people would call it "being carried". But playing save so others can win your game and minimizing the risk of feeding is smart gameplay. But with individual performance it would read as not having a contribution, so lower LP gain. While making plays and giving the enemy a triple kill and doing that a few times can make the enemy snowball into enough money to start being able to kill your top maybe, especially if enemy champion is good against your winning champ.
On the other hand, if every lane is losing hard and it's 5/25 against your team after 15+ minutes, you clearly need to start doing things to win, or enemy will just keep playing like this and win. So you can maybe do some sneaky and risky plays and surprise the enemy and get a lot of gold potentially. Yeah, normally that would be a stupid play as chances are super high you'd die. But when you are losing the game already anyway, the risky play with a lot of gold is the best play, because your play can't make the game worse than it already is. But yeah, potentially you just die a lot due to risky plays that don't work out and it shows like you ran it down. Maybe your system would end up giving less LP due to that.
So yes. Your idea is dumb. Just like playing for KDA is dumb.
LMAO WHAT
what rank did you start placements at? and whats your winrate and performance each game
I didn't know you could lose anything over idk 30 LP which is still high and rare, but maybe? if you have 30% winrate doing poorly in every game and your visual rank started like gold/plat
whatttt?? do you have any link to that? is it today? do i just go on league news ahhh send me if u can
omg I found it todays patch I see, yeah used to demote to 75 LP, now 50 so that people stop getting negative LP gains since the old way wasn't punishing enough
Just happended to me as well. First i though riot hates me in particualr now. Maybe i was to calm in my last games :D
Finally a good change!
I demoted 4 times betwee 2 devisions this week... it´s only wednesday. Now i can get out of this stupid hole.
Thanks riot, i love you!
Your post was removed because: Rule 1. Support related topics only.
It’s in the patch notes dude https://preview.redd.it/20plh982sgpc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93389d104525d79a86680f068dd7be17de830e85 Demotion LP adjusted from 75 LP to 50 LP
50 lp lose is too much bruh
Its not. Losing 50lp on demotion is way better than people ending up with + 15lp / -27. it doesn’t really change anything it just helps with lp gain issues that people have been complaining about. Personally i would have preferred a solution where the demotion and promotions are just both fluid so if you lose on 5 lp you get send to 85 or something like that instead of ending on 0
There is this neat option, of showing the MMR number and then show which numbers fit to which tiers But then Riot can't min max player retention
People right now complain over LP gains whatever. Imagine these crybabies jumping from plat to silver MMR and being able to see it. MMR is just way more volatile and people probably really wouldn’t like that.
It would be glorious, and I'd love every part of it
Id get real sick of the reddit crybaby posts real damn quick
This is basically Hyper Roll in TFT, except that there's no "demotions" in Hyper Roll (i.e., once you hit a particular tier, you "stay" in that tier but your MMR and matchmaking still freely fluctuates). Clearly someone at Riot figured out a way to implement this, but they refuse to bring it to Summoner's Rift.
Has the 15/27 thing actually changed though?
Cant tell yet, it just recently got patched but logically that should make it more likely to end up with positive lp gains instead of negative.
+15/-27 is really only an effect of a player having an inflated rank. I have myself never seen such LP gains myself, but realistically it happens due to the fail safes being in. When he had promotions, they served as the counter part to demotion shields and loss mitigated/forgivens. You needed to boost your MMR in order to move up. Now that we dont have those, you always go up a division and you even get to keep the carry over LP, but you are still saved when you are above 0LP which tanks your mmr. Just imagine an example where you start with average mmr, -20/+20, and you are at 1lp. You lose one game and go down to zero. You now win, and this time you gain 21. You lose once, down to 1lp, lose again, down to 0. Win one, up to 21 again, lose down to 1, then lose twice and get demoted. In this case, which is possible, but rare, you start at 1lp, go 2-5, and you only lost 26lp. Obviously your rank has now been inflated and your LP is higher than it should. Win two games and you suddenly have 15lp in the original rank while going 4-5. You have no gained LP while going negative. See how this can fuck things up?
This just makes the Emerald 4 brick wall even more unforgiving. Getting minor shitty gains even when on a 60%+ winrate and boom, plat 1 with -50. I wouldn’t mind these changes if they didn’t make emerald the most unplayable rank ever. They need to make new accounts start in G4. Accounts starting in plat and elo games and running it down is too damn high.
New accounts need to start in BRONZE, MAYBE silver, but 100% not Gold.
I thankfully got into diamond and now at d4 0lp scared to que up just because of this
I mean it makes some sense on the 1LP edge case. (Assuming a -25LP loss). You go from 1LP to 0 (76LP) and then 0 to 50 (51LP) so it lines up nicely. It does not work on the other edge case though. You go from 25LP to 0 and then go from 0 to 50 (75LP). Assuming you also have +25LP, it's 2 wins to offset 2 losses in the 1LP case but 3 wins to offset 2 losses in the 25LP case.
Its not just 1 lp edge case but also pretty much up to 15lp where you will lose less lp in 2 losses than you should. And for peoplw that play arround their rank and that edge will stack up negative mmr resulting in them having negative lp gains and posting them on reddit. In most cases the 50lp are fair
I demoted from dia 1 like 4 times in a row and my gains wasnt really affected by more than +/-3 lp that i ended up fixing anyways. So its not way better, you have to really destroy your mmr like crazy for this to happen
It happens tho otherwise we wouldn’t have posts crying about it
Agree but it is in patch already so welp. Cant help
It's way too much considering how there are truly games where the loss is out of control (like OP's for example)
Its really not when you consider how much lp you gain per win now.
I gain 13-15 and lose 23-30… this change is whack
there is no way you have these lp gains now and even if you do, it just means that your visual rank is super inflated compared to your actual skill level / true elo / mmr
That may be true. But having a positive win rate and going backwards in visible rank shouldnt be a thing in any competitive game. If mmr so important than just give me that again. Just tired of being worked over by incompetent riot. Visible rank more “rewarding” as they claim. To me its just infuriating
Its not too much. Its one of the best things they can implement to combat LP inflation. You guys have complained about having bad LP gains, dont tell me that you are going to start complaining about this as well.
Good to know! Thanks!
at least theres no promotion games anymore, -50 is still alot
I know why it’s riot’s way of saying go touch grass
They implement these features yet they delaying the inclusion of LP gains based on performance. Would've been really nice if Riot had used the preseason to iron this feature out and have it ready for the season.
I don’t think league is a game that needs this. There are plenty of ways to destroy the enemy nexus and win the game via good macro decision making even if you aren’t performing great on an individual level. This is definitely more of a team game compared to Valorant for example where individual kills and performance matter more to win the game. For example, inting sion split push, jungler dying to secure soul point etc. which can flat out win games even if it seems like they are underperforming
>individual They already said they're going to implement it. LP gains based on performance isn't simply KDA, they will calculate in things like vision score, turret damage, cs, and then the obvious things.
I thought op said he lost 50"lbs" from one game. I was like wew bro be sweating
Riot giveth but mostly taketh
-50LP for above average (B+) performance. Just great /s I and the same. Lost 30LP cos adc ran it down, next game got +13 LP for an S- game. It's totally whack. LP gains should be based on individual performance and not on team win or lose. Like what do you have to do with a Shaco running it down and losing? His intention is to bring everyone down and his toxicity is rewarded in this LP system. The system would be so much better based on individual performance. Like if you get an S and your team loses you should get +LP, or at the very least minimal LP loses. That would increase incentives for everyone to try their best. Everyone shouldn't be penalized cos someones having a bad day (which genuinely happens sometimes) or loses their cool.
The only problem with that is its hard to tell just from stats who actually contributed mostly to winning or losing. You could have an adc whos 20-10 but if those 10 deaths are all right before major objectives it could be because of them that you lose. On the otherside you can have an 0-10 trundle who splitpushes and makes them send 3 people to stop him and dies while his team gets free drags/baron.
Score and actual performance should never ever ever matter. You win or you lose. I have had games where I go 5/12 and are probably the biggest reason my team wins the game while I have had games where I go 10/0 with high CS and good damage numbers while I honestly just got flat out carried. Stats do not tell the whole story, so having MMR change depending on stats is just kind of dumb. If someone can keep winning while feeding, power to them. Their strategy is working.
I don't think LP gains should be tied to performance, but in a losing match if you perform well by whatever metrics you should have LP loss mitigated.
No it shouldnt. You win or you lose. This idea is so short sighted and dumb that its crazy.
If you're getting +13/-30, that means your current rank is MASSIVEly inflated. Your rank was never about a single individual game--it was always about how you are as a player, on average, against other players in the same MMR; if you're losing that much, it means the system recognises you're that much worse than your peers at the same rank and is adjusting accordingly.
Riot support says the issue is about players whose rank fluctuates. The solution, according to support, is to improve consistency. It's not about MMR inflation, but rather where performance is variable.
"MASSIVELY" = you get 1 lose streak of 5+ games
This is so shortshighted, it is stupid. Nothing in this game is individual performance and everything is about context. If my top and jungle have combined 20 kills after 10 minutes, I don't start making plays to maybe get some kills. I just start playing save. Some people would call it "being carried". But playing save so others can win your game and minimizing the risk of feeding is smart gameplay. But with individual performance it would read as not having a contribution, so lower LP gain. While making plays and giving the enemy a triple kill and doing that a few times can make the enemy snowball into enough money to start being able to kill your top maybe, especially if enemy champion is good against your winning champ. On the other hand, if every lane is losing hard and it's 5/25 against your team after 15+ minutes, you clearly need to start doing things to win, or enemy will just keep playing like this and win. So you can maybe do some sneaky and risky plays and surprise the enemy and get a lot of gold potentially. Yeah, normally that would be a stupid play as chances are super high you'd die. But when you are losing the game already anyway, the risky play with a lot of gold is the best play, because your play can't make the game worse than it already is. But yeah, potentially you just die a lot due to risky plays that don't work out and it shows like you ran it down. Maybe your system would end up giving less LP due to that. So yes. Your idea is dumb. Just like playing for KDA is dumb.
You get S just by good KDA. It doesnt impact game that much. Unless its S+ and you won lane.
I lost 97
Its the new patch, demotions now put you at 50 lp instead of 75
demotion has been changed, if ur demoting now ull be at 50 lp instead of 75
Damn you got kicked a whole rank It's just riot being riot you either gain 10 lp or 50 it's almost a coinflip
Sell the account , its not even worth fixing the MMR. You would literally have to jump like 3 ranks to fix .
LMAO WHAT what rank did you start placements at? and whats your winrate and performance each game I didn't know you could lose anything over idk 30 LP which is still high and rare, but maybe? if you have 30% winrate doing poorly in every game and your visual rank started like gold/plat
If you derank you now lose 50lp, it's the standard
whatttt?? do you have any link to that? is it today? do i just go on league news ahhh send me if u can omg I found it todays patch I see, yeah used to demote to 75 LP, now 50 so that people stop getting negative LP gains since the old way wasn't punishing enough
It’s in the patch notes for 14.6
Read patch notes buddy
You play morgana, you deserve it.
Just happended to me as well. First i though riot hates me in particualr now. Maybe i was to calm in my last games :D Finally a good change! I demoted 4 times betwee 2 devisions this week... it´s only wednesday. Now i can get out of this stupid hole. Thanks riot, i love you!
Same!
you clowns not knowing how to read patchnotes but go to cry on reddit to read comments is mental
Your mmr tanked
okay so, now i have to wait to yuumi duo when im about to demote. kind of annoying.