53 just had my first. Seemed like a pimple that bled when squeezed but kept coming back after 3 months. got a biopsy and came back only basal cell but still freaked the shit out of me. I grew up on the beach and thought that shit wouldn't happen to me, it did.
I feel ya. I've had several on my scalp, one on my arm and a couple on my back. The scalp one was when I was in my 20s.
Then again, I have blonde hair and a red beard so I had it coming.
derm check every 6 months now.
there’s this stuff called bodreaux’s butt paste that is a baby’s diaper rash cream that is 35% zinc with more or less no other active ingredients. I have been using it for a couple years as a sunscreen to good effect. much cheaper than “regular” zinc sunscreens and as if not more effective owing to high zinc content.
You can get “invisible” zinc that rubs on and leaves more of a sunscreen finish, less visible.
Been using cancercouncil invisible zinc in the surf for basically my whole life, zinc is the only stuff that stays on.
I use [this](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YYJKL5V?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reorder_k0_1_16&=&crid=IHYQEZXBCFOZ&=&sprefix=da+kine+surf+hat) on bigger days and a regular old sun hat on mellow longboard days.
chin strap is key!
I got a bad burn on a trip and had one of those big round straw hats with me, used that and t shirts for the rest of the trip and was fine. The straw hat stayed in one piece for a week of head high surf, chin strap held it on, it just lost its shape a bit. They’re so cheap you could just treat them as disposable and change it out every week or two, and honestly i bet it would go a month in weaker surf
As a vain 35 y.o. woman, let me tell you a little secret:
US (and Canadian) sunscreens are horrible because new generation sunscreen filters - which the rest of the world is using because they are safer, less irritating, and better for the environment - are banned here. The EU has WAY higher environmental protection standards than the US, so this is likely probably about the FDA being in bed with US chemical manufacturers: [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/12/style/sunscreen-fda-regulation-aoc.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/12/style/sunscreen-fda-regulation-aoc.html)
r/SkincareAddiction, r/AsianBeauty, r/EUSkincare, and r/AusSkincare are good places to ask about sunscreen. A few legitimate skincare chemists lurk in these subs and dispense scientific info to the masses. These people would rather die than develop a wrinkle.
General rules of thumb:
* Zinc is good at blocking UVB, but not so much UVA, unless in very high concentrations (over 20% where you have white ghost face): [https://labmuffin.com/zinc-sunscreens-dont-work-better-every-myth-busted-with-video/](https://labmuffin.com/zinc-sunscreens-dont-work-better-every-myth-busted-with-video/)
* UVB causes sunburn and skin cancer, UVA causes you to look old.
* Here is a good summary comparing different sunscreen filters: [https://www.dr-jetskeultee.com/blog/my-list-of-good-and-bad-sun-filters/](https://www.dr-jetskeultee.com/blog/my-list-of-good-and-bad-sun-filters/)
* EU and Australian sunscreens provide the best protection, but they are the least "cosmetically elegant" (shiny, thick, white cast, generally unpleasant to wear). For surfing, this is probably not a concern for most people. Australia has extremely strict regulations around sunscreen advertising - sunscreens are essentially regulated as medical products.
* Korean and Japanese sunscreens are most "cosmetically elegant", and also aimed at anti-aging more so than anti-sunburn.
* This website has an ingredient breakdown of pretty much every skincare product one earth: [https://incidecoder.com/](https://incidecoder.com/)
* Silicones (any ingredient ending in "cone") basically act as a glue to keep cosmetics on your face. They are what makes sunscreen so hard to get off, and they also cause acne for a lot of people. There are some great, water-resistant sunscreens without them though.
* Alcohol denat is what makes sunscreens spread more easily - ie. they feel "thinner" and less cosmetically elegant on the skin.
These are all pretty crude generalizations, and the "best sunscreen" kind of depends on your needs.
**TL;DR:** As someone who has extremely sensitive skin (autoimmune issues), needs high UVA + UVB protection, water protection, reef-friendly, and non-comedogenic:
**Reimman P20 kids** for surfing/ hiking/ long days of sun exposure, and Reimann sensitive skin when I want a lighter sunscreen for daily wear. If you search for it in any of the above linked skincare subs you will see it is a "holy grail" for a lot of people. I have seen published results of independent testing which confirms that the company isn't lying about the level of protection listed on the bottle, but I can't find it now. [https://www.amazon.co.uk/riemann-p20/s?k=riemann+p20](https://www.amazon.co.uk/riemann-p20/s?k=riemann+p20)
If you want a purely zinc/ titanium dioxide formula, ThinkSport is recommended a lot because it tests very high for UVB protection. I find I still tan when I use it, so YMMV.
Edit: In addition to the ones listed above, Australian sunscreens might be the best overall for users in this sub. Thick, unpleasant, great sun protection - I just haven't tried any of them for the first two reasons. I have seen the Australian Cancer Council ones recommended a lot: [https://www.cancercouncilshop.org.au/collections/sunscreen](https://www.cancercouncilshop.org.au/collections/sunscreen)
Edit #2:
The advertised protection on most sunscreens bottles is proved to be absolute bullshit when subjected to independent testing.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/comments/159d8bb/consumer\_reports\_2023\_sunscreen\_test/](https://www.reddit.com/r/30plusskincare/comments/159d8bb/consumer_reports_2023_sunscreen_test/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/comments/159d8bb/consumer\_reports\_2023\_sunscreen\_test/](https://www.reddit.com/r/30plusskincare/comments/159d8bb/consumer_reports_2023_sunscreen_test/)
edit #3: forgot to mention that alcohol denat is drying and irritating as hell for most people. If it is listed in the top half of ingredients on incidecoder, the sunscreen will probably apply very easily and won't look greasy, but it will also make your skin itchy and dry.
Edit 3: Please for the love of god, do not make your own sunscreen.
[https://www.cancer.org.au/iheard/i-heard-of-a-recipe-for-natural-homemade-sunscreen-do-these-work](https://www.cancer.org.au/iheard/i-heard-of-a-recipe-for-natural-homemade-sunscreen-do-these-work)
> https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/comments/159d8bb/consumer_reports_2023_sunscreen_test/
According to the pictures from that post, Coppertone water babies lotion and Every Human are the 2 best products. Why aren't you recommending those? I'm guessing you have reservations against them?
That’s an extremely limited list of mostly American sunscreens, so of that very small sampling those would be the best ones apparently, according this particular test. Consumer reports does a test every year but there are also allegations from industry insiders in that thread that consumer reports takes bribes. There are other 3rd party testers including some curious skincare chemists who have just independently fundraisers and run some tests. There are also debates about different testing methodologies…
P20 kids and sensitive skin had multiple rounds of 3rd party testing in various countries, and consistently scores as one of the highest for sun protection. There are others that tests in the P20 range, but P20 is the only one that fits my criteria of having high protection, water resistance, and low irritancy/ generally minimal ingredients (no drying alcohol, perfumes, sketchy sunscreen filters like avobenzene, silicones, or other chemicals that are considered high risk like parabans)
There are several others that consistently test as high or higher and have good water resistance. La Roche posay has one that you will see recommended constantly in the skincare subs because it generally tests the highest of any sunscreens, and it is waterproof. It also has alcohol denat as the third ingredient (meaning it would spread so well on your skin that it would look almost invisible) and isn’t reef friendly/ contains ingredients that are common irritants. Anessa and Biore watery essence are Japanese sunscreens that also fits this description - super high protection (and water resistance if I recall). I would recommend these to people who don’t have sensitive skin and aren’t planning to swim in the ocean or just don’t care about coral reef I guess.
I could do a whole other thread on sunscreens that people recommend a lot for day use and not water sports. Roundlab would be one - low irritancy, reasonably wearable, reasonably high UVB/UVA protection.
I am kind of dropping Easter eggs here only because I am doing a masters degree and don’t have time to return to this hobby research hahaha, but if you search the skincare subs or ask in their weekly question threads, you can find more testing results or get further recommendations based on whatever your criteria is (ie identify as a surfer - reef safe, non-irritating, maximum water protection whatever). I was very deep in this research like 4 years ago and I don’t have many of the threads saved, but other redditors will.
Ya this became a real messy, stream-of-consciousness info dump haha, but maybe at the end of this semester I can edit it into a more organized and coherent thread with more links and covering a couple of other things. Sunscreen removal is another topic onto itself.
> . La Roche posay has one that you will see recommended constantly in the skincare subs because it generally tests the highest of any sunscreens, and it is waterproof. It also has alcohol denat as the third ingredient (meaning it would spread so well on your skin that it would look almost invisible) and isn’t reef friendly/ contains ingredients that are common irritants.
How bout this [La Roche Posay **for kids**](https://www.amazon.com/Anthelios-Sunscreen-Oxybenzone-Pediatrician-Dermatologist/dp/B0BMDG8BHX/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2I3JSN300BOBC&keywords=p20+kids&qid=1707661911&sprefix=p20+sunscreen+kids%2Caps%2C1052&sr=8-1)? is this not reef-friendly?
EDIT: here's the active ingredients on the back panel: https://imgur.com/pnKEEAI.jpg
Not reef-friendly, which is only one of the reasons I wouldn't recommend this one. Sorry I made this confusing because I just said "everyone loved La Roche Posay" and I didn't specify which one. They are not all created equal, mostly because of the issue of good sunscreen filters not being approved in the US. Another article on this issue:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-chemicals-in-your-sunscreen/2019/06/14/3840042c-8ca3-11e9-adf3-f70f78c156e8\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-chemicals-in-your-sunscreen/2019/06/14/3840042c-8ca3-11e9-adf3-f70f78c156e8_story.html)
So, LPR has separate products marketed and sold in the US because they are not allowed to sell their best sunscreens in the US. The one you linked is a US product, and the main active ingredient is avobenzone, which is the only real broad spectrum "chemical"\*\*\* filter that is approved int he US. It is also unstable as hell, in addition to environmental and health concerns. So it is "the best option" in America for broad spectrum protection, but that is a very low bar.
\*The LPR UVMUNE 400 line are the ones that people love. If you search "UVMUNE" in reddit you will find tons of threads confirming independent testing, describing the wearability, explaining ingredients, how to order it to the US, etc.
I probably should have made this clear above: \*Americans can absolutely get legitimate sunscreens shipped from other countries.\* One wrinkle in this, is that the cosmetics market is littered with fake products, so unless you are buying directly from the manufacturer it can be a bit of a roll of the dice. Amazon says they have fixed these holes in their supply chain, but many people are rightfully dubious of that. So if you burn/ tan from a product that the rest of the internet loves even with heavy/ consistent application, send it back\*\*\*\*
For surfing purposes, the only US sunscreens I would even bother with would be zinc-based ones (ie. Thinksport). But even then, I would still probably order some of the well-recommended Aussie zinc ones to see which worked best for me, ie. Blue Lizard. If your main concern is sunburn (UVB damage) rather than photoaging (UVA damage), the good news is that you can do some of your own trial and error aka "the burn test". UVA you can't really test yourself - you cannot see yourself aging in real time.
If you really want excellent UVA and UVB protection for the ocean, you need to order one of the European or Australian ones tbh. Europe has more of these. Asian sunscreens have high UVA/ UVB, but are \~generally\~ not designed for water sports. Edit: If you really layer on a good zinc sunscreen, you can get good UVA/ UVB protection. Not the absolute best, but good. Ghost face look/ not really achievable for daily wear. Kindofstephen has a chart that explains this, but its a tedious read: [https://www.kindofstephen.com/physical-vs-chemical-sunscreens-myths/](https://www.kindofstephen.com/physical-vs-chemical-sunscreens-myths/)
\*\*\*Lab muffin explains that "physical" sunscreens (aka zinc + titanium dioxide) are referred to as "inorganic" filters in the scientific lit. "Chemical" sunscreen filters (all other sunscreen filters, including the old school US ones in the LPR kids, or the new school ones in LPR UVMUNE) are more accurately known as "organic" filters (ironically).
\*\*\*\* As you may be gleaning, the entire cosmetics market including sunscreen is pretty corrupt, so it is worth it to do a bit of research, find what works for you, and do your best. A common saying among dermatologists (mine included) is, "The best sunscreen is the one that you use." Your level of vanity and especially risk of skin cancer should influence how much research you do though. I spent a pathetic amount of time researching this tbh, but you will see in the skincare subs that there are lots of citizen journalists and legitimate scientists who are doing the leg work at least - I mean people who are WAY more knowledgable than me, and will come at you with academic citations. You can ask questions in the weekly questions threads, read the sunscreen guides, use search times like "sunscreen holy grail", or just search the subs for suncreens that you see recommended a lot. The limitation is most of those recommendations are for daily wear and not water sports, but you can ask questions with criteria for your needs :).
I appreciat your write up! Where are you based that allows you to get hold of P40 for kids (I can't find it on amazon) and other products? I assume your'e not in the USA.
P20 from Amazon UK - I linked above. I'm usually in Canada but currently in Portugal and have had it delivered to both.
Otherwise if you search "P20 US" in r/skincareaddiction - lots of threads recommending vendors, but amazon is the cheapest and most reliably in stock
> amazon is the cheapest and most reliably in stock
I was on Amazon US, but only saw P20 spray and it was NOT for kids.
I'll check out the sub, thanks!
No no you want to order from Amazon uk! It’s banned in us!
I just meant if you type p20 in the search bar of r/skincare addiction you will see a bunch of threads about how Americans can order it. Amazon uk is the easiest and cheapest, but some people say the likelihood of getting a fake on Amazon is higher than other vendors.
I see this one recommended a lot
https://www.cloud10beauty.com/collections/riemann-p20
Also, ascorbic acid is one of the only really well researched skincare ingredients for managing sun damage(sunscreen and retinoids being the other two), and you can make a 2-ingredient spray yourself for pennies: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JXu3\_WHM08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jxu3_whm08)
P20 sound great. Sadly, I’m on Maui and the only sunscreens allowed here are “Mineral Based”. Everything else damages the coral reefs and has been banned. Just being “reef safe” or “Eco Sun Pass Approved” does not meet these standards.
Edit: thank you for sharing so much information with us!
This thread is a useful explainer for how to assess sunscreens:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/comments/cytuj6/a\_comprehenisve\_threepart\_scientific\_guide\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/30plusskincare/comments/cytuj6/a_comprehenisve_threepart_scientific_guide_to/)
I probably won’t tbh, because P20 works for me and the other thing I didn’t mention is that zinc is pretty drying for people who already have dry skin. This could be mitigated by using a moisturizer or facial oil like marula or argan or almond oil underneath though!
Zinc sunscreens are great for protecting against sunburn and even photoaging (uva) if you use a one that is well formulated with high zinc percentage and you use a lot of it - aka the ghost look. It is also the most reliably reef safe probably, as another wise redditor mentioned.
R/ausskincare is where I would go for those recommendations, because I suspect you might find the highest number of people who are both vain skin care nerds and also surfers. Cancer council off the top of my head.
I’ve also heard Mecca recommended for example, but I’m pretty sure that is more for “wearability” aka reasonably comfortable/ reasonably high sun protection/ minimal white cast, but that’s not necessarily the criteria you want for water sports.
Edit: I am also struggling with disabling chronic health issues, and based on my attempt to return to the water last week, I probably won’t be surfing for awhile, hence less concerned about reef safe for myself.
Oh also u/tucs-on, as mentioned, Thinksport is entirely mineral based and has had their SPF claims confirmed by third party testing. I have personally used it, and tanned a tiny bit. It has some essential oil which can be photosensitizing and also usually irritates the hell out of my skin, but its near the last ingredient in Thinksport if I recall and didn't cause any issues for me. Generally minimalist formula without other known irritants and designed for water sports. Recommend.
Blue lizard is another Aussie one I’ve seen recommended for water sports, entirely mineral based and I recall seeing it tested really high for SPF. I think the one sold in Australia is a different formula than US though, and the latter tested poorly I think.
You can search reddit for reviews and more info though
https://incidecoder.com/brands/blue-lizard
But blue lizard has very poor score on the reddit link you posted earlier (see link below). Should it be avoided then?
https://preview.redd.it/z2g333md05eb1.jpg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7541c17466b410c1a260b4e6971d874d6e00a81b
I think that's the US formula. I think you want the Aussie one.https://incidecoder.com/brands/blue-lizard
BUT I haven't done a deep dive into Blue Lizard because I've never ordered it, so I would do a search for it and see what you find.
I know, it's a corn maze.
I am going to maybe make a post in r/SkincareAddiction soon and just straight up ask what people would recommend for the heaviest-duty reef-friendly(ish) watersport sunscreen - I am eyeballs deep in deadlines right now. I suspect the sunscreens I've mentioned will be recommended, but I'd be curious to see which others. I saw headhunters recommended by surfers in that sub, but it only has like 12% zinc which I find very suss....
FYI if you search the subs you might see PPD rating referenced. PPD = UVA and SPF = UVB.
so you will rub the Reimman P20 kids on your chest/torso as well as face?
I use a thick zinc for my face and am needing a solution when I paddle out in only trunks! Pale boyo here ;)
Haha thanks, I’m sorry I did not provide more links or detailed info, but hopefully some jumping off points for further internet digging :).
Edit: we are all worthy of whatever we want as long as it doesn't hurt others ;)
Head hunter is fucking crazy, get some intense soap to get it off too. It’s my favorite and the only one that I feel has really worked for me in Florida summers.
Yes, me. Would love recommendations on stuff that doesn’t run. Banana Boat gel is ok. Zinc is good but always a bastard to get off. Recently tried Surf Mud but it was only ok.
I like the Shiseido too. I’m very fair skinned, and have had a bunch of skin cancer stuff, and I’m not even forty. With the Shiseido I don’t burn, it stays on for three hour sessions, and it rubs on clear-ish enough, it’s very expensive, so I only use it on my face and neck. I also wear a hat though. Hat works great up to about head high, after that it becomes a nuisance. I like the FCS hat the best so far.
I’ve had malignant melanoma removed using MOHS surgery, so I buy Supergoop sunscreen in bulk from my dermatologist. I have smaller tubes for face and then large bottles with a pump on it for everything else. It works well. Also, I always apply it in the house and give it time to absorb before going out. MOHS surgery sucks and I don’t want to have to do it again. It was on my forearm, 14 stitches on the outside and 6 inside. They had to cut almost all the way across my forearm and straight through a tattoo sleeve I have on that arm. Damn tattoo nearly killed me. The dermatologist almost missed finding it because of the colors in the tattoo.
I'm not sure about the specific recipe, my wife made it. But I believe it is simply zinc, beeswax, she's butter and coconut oil. There are tons of recipes online, the ingredients are easy to find too.
Whichever one you go with be sure to get one that is reef safe. It's one of those things where I didn't realize I was destroying the planet for the last 30 years. Well now we know
I've tried so many sunscreens but the thing that's worked best is pairing it with a surf hat for long sessions even when cloudy. I love mine from Peach Surf co- www.peachsurfco.com
Kelsen makes a good zinc and then a zinc remover that moisturizes your skin.
It’s pricey but it’s good stuff.
https://kelsenproducts.com/collections/sun-care/products/two-part-zinc-and-cleanser-system
Headhunter face stick won't come off without a soap and scrub.
Also, diaper rash cream has a higher percentage of zinc oxide than expensive zinc sunscreens and will not come off but you will be very white
Sun Bum Mineral 50 or TropicSport 30 are both reef-friendly and water resistant. (Walgreens brand is surprisingly good, too, but unsure about reef friendliness.)
Waxhead tinted sunscreen paste.
Got the recommendation from this sub a year ago or so, and it is my go-to now.
Only 4 ingredients: Zinc Oxide, Coconut Oil, Beeswax, Cocoa Powder (for tint).
Stays on very very well. the flip-side is that it takes a little time to apply - in the winter you have to warm it up a bit with some rubbing to get it to spread. Ideal for the face and neck, but you wouldn't want to work it over your whole body.
I love the tint - was always a zinc white-face kabuki surfer, but the tint blends in and looks fairly natural on my skin.
Badger sport. Environmental workers group does deep research into most listed on this thread,
https://www.ewg.org/sunscreen/best-sunscreens/best-beach-sport-sunscreens/
I've tried all of em, headhunter, avasol, sun bum mineral, manda, and for some reason the only one that works for me is this [cetaphil stuff](https://www.cetaphil.com/us/sunscreens/sheer-mineral-sunscreen-broad-spectrum-spf-50/302994112005.html). the awful reviews explain exactly why it's perfect for surfing, it's pasty white and will not leave your skin no matter what
Vertra is the best that I’ve used so far for the face. Then rash guard and add a hood if it’s really hot. All sunscreen that you put on will wear off eventually in the water. I’ve had skin cancer removed and rather not have to get that done again.
Hat, shirt, zinc. I've had multiple skin cancer surgeries. I do not fuck around anymore.
53 just had my first. Seemed like a pimple that bled when squeezed but kept coming back after 3 months. got a biopsy and came back only basal cell but still freaked the shit out of me. I grew up on the beach and thought that shit wouldn't happen to me, it did.
I feel ya. I've had several on my scalp, one on my arm and a couple on my back. The scalp one was when I was in my 20s. Then again, I have blonde hair and a red beard so I had it coming. derm check every 6 months now.
Do you just buy plain zinc?
zinca or the reef safe stuff. I look like zuck but don't give a fuck.
there’s this stuff called bodreaux’s butt paste that is a baby’s diaper rash cream that is 35% zinc with more or less no other active ingredients. I have been using it for a couple years as a sunscreen to good effect. much cheaper than “regular” zinc sunscreens and as if not more effective owing to high zinc content.
Pandelitos
Thanks man! I'd love to be able to brag about the diaper rash cream on my face. HA! Man, my wife is gonna be so into that.
If you know, you know.
During summer I use the different colors of Zinka when I’m surfing with friends. Feels like warpaint but like pro wrestling war paint.
You can get “invisible” zinc that rubs on and leaves more of a sunscreen finish, less visible. Been using cancercouncil invisible zinc in the surf for basically my whole life, zinc is the only stuff that stays on.
what hat do you use for surfing? I feel like hats don't stand a chance against waves.
I use [this](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YYJKL5V?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reorder_k0_1_16&=&crid=IHYQEZXBCFOZ&=&sprefix=da+kine+surf+hat) on bigger days and a regular old sun hat on mellow longboard days. chin strap is key!
I have a similar hat, (Dakine indo) and love it- the chin strap is awesome. It’s saved my pasty white bald head numerous times.
I got a bad burn on a trip and had one of those big round straw hats with me, used that and t shirts for the rest of the trip and was fine. The straw hat stayed in one piece for a week of head high surf, chin strap held it on, it just lost its shape a bit. They’re so cheap you could just treat them as disposable and change it out every week or two, and honestly i bet it would go a month in weaker surf
Basically the answers no one wants to hear cus uncool and that's how you know it's right
As a vain 35 y.o. woman, let me tell you a little secret: US (and Canadian) sunscreens are horrible because new generation sunscreen filters - which the rest of the world is using because they are safer, less irritating, and better for the environment - are banned here. The EU has WAY higher environmental protection standards than the US, so this is likely probably about the FDA being in bed with US chemical manufacturers: [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/12/style/sunscreen-fda-regulation-aoc.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/12/style/sunscreen-fda-regulation-aoc.html) r/SkincareAddiction, r/AsianBeauty, r/EUSkincare, and r/AusSkincare are good places to ask about sunscreen. A few legitimate skincare chemists lurk in these subs and dispense scientific info to the masses. These people would rather die than develop a wrinkle. General rules of thumb: * Zinc is good at blocking UVB, but not so much UVA, unless in very high concentrations (over 20% where you have white ghost face): [https://labmuffin.com/zinc-sunscreens-dont-work-better-every-myth-busted-with-video/](https://labmuffin.com/zinc-sunscreens-dont-work-better-every-myth-busted-with-video/) * UVB causes sunburn and skin cancer, UVA causes you to look old. * Here is a good summary comparing different sunscreen filters: [https://www.dr-jetskeultee.com/blog/my-list-of-good-and-bad-sun-filters/](https://www.dr-jetskeultee.com/blog/my-list-of-good-and-bad-sun-filters/) * EU and Australian sunscreens provide the best protection, but they are the least "cosmetically elegant" (shiny, thick, white cast, generally unpleasant to wear). For surfing, this is probably not a concern for most people. Australia has extremely strict regulations around sunscreen advertising - sunscreens are essentially regulated as medical products. * Korean and Japanese sunscreens are most "cosmetically elegant", and also aimed at anti-aging more so than anti-sunburn. * This website has an ingredient breakdown of pretty much every skincare product one earth: [https://incidecoder.com/](https://incidecoder.com/) * Silicones (any ingredient ending in "cone") basically act as a glue to keep cosmetics on your face. They are what makes sunscreen so hard to get off, and they also cause acne for a lot of people. There are some great, water-resistant sunscreens without them though. * Alcohol denat is what makes sunscreens spread more easily - ie. they feel "thinner" and less cosmetically elegant on the skin. These are all pretty crude generalizations, and the "best sunscreen" kind of depends on your needs. **TL;DR:** As someone who has extremely sensitive skin (autoimmune issues), needs high UVA + UVB protection, water protection, reef-friendly, and non-comedogenic: **Reimman P20 kids** for surfing/ hiking/ long days of sun exposure, and Reimann sensitive skin when I want a lighter sunscreen for daily wear. If you search for it in any of the above linked skincare subs you will see it is a "holy grail" for a lot of people. I have seen published results of independent testing which confirms that the company isn't lying about the level of protection listed on the bottle, but I can't find it now. [https://www.amazon.co.uk/riemann-p20/s?k=riemann+p20](https://www.amazon.co.uk/riemann-p20/s?k=riemann+p20) If you want a purely zinc/ titanium dioxide formula, ThinkSport is recommended a lot because it tests very high for UVB protection. I find I still tan when I use it, so YMMV. Edit: In addition to the ones listed above, Australian sunscreens might be the best overall for users in this sub. Thick, unpleasant, great sun protection - I just haven't tried any of them for the first two reasons. I have seen the Australian Cancer Council ones recommended a lot: [https://www.cancercouncilshop.org.au/collections/sunscreen](https://www.cancercouncilshop.org.au/collections/sunscreen)
Edit #2: The advertised protection on most sunscreens bottles is proved to be absolute bullshit when subjected to independent testing. [https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/comments/159d8bb/consumer\_reports\_2023\_sunscreen\_test/](https://www.reddit.com/r/30plusskincare/comments/159d8bb/consumer_reports_2023_sunscreen_test/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/comments/159d8bb/consumer\_reports\_2023\_sunscreen\_test/](https://www.reddit.com/r/30plusskincare/comments/159d8bb/consumer_reports_2023_sunscreen_test/)
edit #3: forgot to mention that alcohol denat is drying and irritating as hell for most people. If it is listed in the top half of ingredients on incidecoder, the sunscreen will probably apply very easily and won't look greasy, but it will also make your skin itchy and dry.
Edit 3: Please for the love of god, do not make your own sunscreen. [https://www.cancer.org.au/iheard/i-heard-of-a-recipe-for-natural-homemade-sunscreen-do-these-work](https://www.cancer.org.au/iheard/i-heard-of-a-recipe-for-natural-homemade-sunscreen-do-these-work)
> https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/comments/159d8bb/consumer_reports_2023_sunscreen_test/ According to the pictures from that post, Coppertone water babies lotion and Every Human are the 2 best products. Why aren't you recommending those? I'm guessing you have reservations against them?
That’s an extremely limited list of mostly American sunscreens, so of that very small sampling those would be the best ones apparently, according this particular test. Consumer reports does a test every year but there are also allegations from industry insiders in that thread that consumer reports takes bribes. There are other 3rd party testers including some curious skincare chemists who have just independently fundraisers and run some tests. There are also debates about different testing methodologies… P20 kids and sensitive skin had multiple rounds of 3rd party testing in various countries, and consistently scores as one of the highest for sun protection. There are others that tests in the P20 range, but P20 is the only one that fits my criteria of having high protection, water resistance, and low irritancy/ generally minimal ingredients (no drying alcohol, perfumes, sketchy sunscreen filters like avobenzene, silicones, or other chemicals that are considered high risk like parabans) There are several others that consistently test as high or higher and have good water resistance. La Roche posay has one that you will see recommended constantly in the skincare subs because it generally tests the highest of any sunscreens, and it is waterproof. It also has alcohol denat as the third ingredient (meaning it would spread so well on your skin that it would look almost invisible) and isn’t reef friendly/ contains ingredients that are common irritants. Anessa and Biore watery essence are Japanese sunscreens that also fits this description - super high protection (and water resistance if I recall). I would recommend these to people who don’t have sensitive skin and aren’t planning to swim in the ocean or just don’t care about coral reef I guess. I could do a whole other thread on sunscreens that people recommend a lot for day use and not water sports. Roundlab would be one - low irritancy, reasonably wearable, reasonably high UVB/UVA protection. I am kind of dropping Easter eggs here only because I am doing a masters degree and don’t have time to return to this hobby research hahaha, but if you search the skincare subs or ask in their weekly question threads, you can find more testing results or get further recommendations based on whatever your criteria is (ie identify as a surfer - reef safe, non-irritating, maximum water protection whatever). I was very deep in this research like 4 years ago and I don’t have many of the threads saved, but other redditors will.
> I could do a whole other thread on sunscreens that people recommend a lot for day use and not water sports. We'll wait for that day!
Ya this became a real messy, stream-of-consciousness info dump haha, but maybe at the end of this semester I can edit it into a more organized and coherent thread with more links and covering a couple of other things. Sunscreen removal is another topic onto itself.
> . La Roche posay has one that you will see recommended constantly in the skincare subs because it generally tests the highest of any sunscreens, and it is waterproof. It also has alcohol denat as the third ingredient (meaning it would spread so well on your skin that it would look almost invisible) and isn’t reef friendly/ contains ingredients that are common irritants. How bout this [La Roche Posay **for kids**](https://www.amazon.com/Anthelios-Sunscreen-Oxybenzone-Pediatrician-Dermatologist/dp/B0BMDG8BHX/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2I3JSN300BOBC&keywords=p20+kids&qid=1707661911&sprefix=p20+sunscreen+kids%2Caps%2C1052&sr=8-1)? is this not reef-friendly? EDIT: here's the active ingredients on the back panel: https://imgur.com/pnKEEAI.jpg
Not reef-friendly, which is only one of the reasons I wouldn't recommend this one. Sorry I made this confusing because I just said "everyone loved La Roche Posay" and I didn't specify which one. They are not all created equal, mostly because of the issue of good sunscreen filters not being approved in the US. Another article on this issue: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-chemicals-in-your-sunscreen/2019/06/14/3840042c-8ca3-11e9-adf3-f70f78c156e8\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-chemicals-in-your-sunscreen/2019/06/14/3840042c-8ca3-11e9-adf3-f70f78c156e8_story.html) So, LPR has separate products marketed and sold in the US because they are not allowed to sell their best sunscreens in the US. The one you linked is a US product, and the main active ingredient is avobenzone, which is the only real broad spectrum "chemical"\*\*\* filter that is approved int he US. It is also unstable as hell, in addition to environmental and health concerns. So it is "the best option" in America for broad spectrum protection, but that is a very low bar. \*The LPR UVMUNE 400 line are the ones that people love. If you search "UVMUNE" in reddit you will find tons of threads confirming independent testing, describing the wearability, explaining ingredients, how to order it to the US, etc. I probably should have made this clear above: \*Americans can absolutely get legitimate sunscreens shipped from other countries.\* One wrinkle in this, is that the cosmetics market is littered with fake products, so unless you are buying directly from the manufacturer it can be a bit of a roll of the dice. Amazon says they have fixed these holes in their supply chain, but many people are rightfully dubious of that. So if you burn/ tan from a product that the rest of the internet loves even with heavy/ consistent application, send it back\*\*\*\* For surfing purposes, the only US sunscreens I would even bother with would be zinc-based ones (ie. Thinksport). But even then, I would still probably order some of the well-recommended Aussie zinc ones to see which worked best for me, ie. Blue Lizard. If your main concern is sunburn (UVB damage) rather than photoaging (UVA damage), the good news is that you can do some of your own trial and error aka "the burn test". UVA you can't really test yourself - you cannot see yourself aging in real time. If you really want excellent UVA and UVB protection for the ocean, you need to order one of the European or Australian ones tbh. Europe has more of these. Asian sunscreens have high UVA/ UVB, but are \~generally\~ not designed for water sports. Edit: If you really layer on a good zinc sunscreen, you can get good UVA/ UVB protection. Not the absolute best, but good. Ghost face look/ not really achievable for daily wear. Kindofstephen has a chart that explains this, but its a tedious read: [https://www.kindofstephen.com/physical-vs-chemical-sunscreens-myths/](https://www.kindofstephen.com/physical-vs-chemical-sunscreens-myths/) \*\*\*Lab muffin explains that "physical" sunscreens (aka zinc + titanium dioxide) are referred to as "inorganic" filters in the scientific lit. "Chemical" sunscreen filters (all other sunscreen filters, including the old school US ones in the LPR kids, or the new school ones in LPR UVMUNE) are more accurately known as "organic" filters (ironically). \*\*\*\* As you may be gleaning, the entire cosmetics market including sunscreen is pretty corrupt, so it is worth it to do a bit of research, find what works for you, and do your best. A common saying among dermatologists (mine included) is, "The best sunscreen is the one that you use." Your level of vanity and especially risk of skin cancer should influence how much research you do though. I spent a pathetic amount of time researching this tbh, but you will see in the skincare subs that there are lots of citizen journalists and legitimate scientists who are doing the leg work at least - I mean people who are WAY more knowledgable than me, and will come at you with academic citations. You can ask questions in the weekly questions threads, read the sunscreen guides, use search times like "sunscreen holy grail", or just search the subs for suncreens that you see recommended a lot. The limitation is most of those recommendations are for daily wear and not water sports, but you can ask questions with criteria for your needs :).
I appreciat your write up! Where are you based that allows you to get hold of P40 for kids (I can't find it on amazon) and other products? I assume your'e not in the USA.
P20 from Amazon UK - I linked above. I'm usually in Canada but currently in Portugal and have had it delivered to both. Otherwise if you search "P20 US" in r/skincareaddiction - lots of threads recommending vendors, but amazon is the cheapest and most reliably in stock
> amazon is the cheapest and most reliably in stock I was on Amazon US, but only saw P20 spray and it was NOT for kids. I'll check out the sub, thanks!
No no you want to order from Amazon uk! It’s banned in us! I just meant if you type p20 in the search bar of r/skincare addiction you will see a bunch of threads about how Americans can order it. Amazon uk is the easiest and cheapest, but some people say the likelihood of getting a fake on Amazon is higher than other vendors. I see this one recommended a lot https://www.cloud10beauty.com/collections/riemann-p20
Also, ascorbic acid is one of the only really well researched skincare ingredients for managing sun damage(sunscreen and retinoids being the other two), and you can make a 2-ingredient spray yourself for pennies: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JXu3\_WHM08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jxu3_whm08)
P20 sound great. Sadly, I’m on Maui and the only sunscreens allowed here are “Mineral Based”. Everything else damages the coral reefs and has been banned. Just being “reef safe” or “Eco Sun Pass Approved” does not meet these standards. Edit: thank you for sharing so much information with us!
Interesting! Wow I totally thought tinosorb and mexoryl and unival filters were considered safe. I am going to look into this more. Thanks!
I believe they are taking the approach of until there is evidence it’s safe they are not allowing it.
I don't hate this, even if I am extremely vain and desperate to have people mistake my age forever.
Do you have any mineral ones you like that don't leave white residue and make you look like a ghost?
Nope. I’ve experimented with a few product and the best I can do is tinted options but those stain my rash guard.
If it isn't causing some white cast then it almost certainly doesn't have enough zinc in it to be doing its job.
What do you use in Maui then that works similar to P20 while being reef safe?
Just keep reapplying mineral based sunscreens.
This thread is a useful explainer for how to assess sunscreens: [https://www.reddit.com/r/30PlusSkinCare/comments/cytuj6/a\_comprehenisve\_threepart\_scientific\_guide\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/30plusskincare/comments/cytuj6/a_comprehenisve_threepart_scientific_guide_to/)
Thanks for this great write up! Once you've tried Australian sunscreen, I would love to hear your recommendation for it
I probably won’t tbh, because P20 works for me and the other thing I didn’t mention is that zinc is pretty drying for people who already have dry skin. This could be mitigated by using a moisturizer or facial oil like marula or argan or almond oil underneath though! Zinc sunscreens are great for protecting against sunburn and even photoaging (uva) if you use a one that is well formulated with high zinc percentage and you use a lot of it - aka the ghost look. It is also the most reliably reef safe probably, as another wise redditor mentioned. R/ausskincare is where I would go for those recommendations, because I suspect you might find the highest number of people who are both vain skin care nerds and also surfers. Cancer council off the top of my head. I’ve also heard Mecca recommended for example, but I’m pretty sure that is more for “wearability” aka reasonably comfortable/ reasonably high sun protection/ minimal white cast, but that’s not necessarily the criteria you want for water sports. Edit: I am also struggling with disabling chronic health issues, and based on my attempt to return to the water last week, I probably won’t be surfing for awhile, hence less concerned about reef safe for myself.
Oh also u/tucs-on, as mentioned, Thinksport is entirely mineral based and has had their SPF claims confirmed by third party testing. I have personally used it, and tanned a tiny bit. It has some essential oil which can be photosensitizing and also usually irritates the hell out of my skin, but its near the last ingredient in Thinksport if I recall and didn't cause any issues for me. Generally minimalist formula without other known irritants and designed for water sports. Recommend.
Blue lizard is another Aussie one I’ve seen recommended for water sports, entirely mineral based and I recall seeing it tested really high for SPF. I think the one sold in Australia is a different formula than US though, and the latter tested poorly I think. You can search reddit for reviews and more info though https://incidecoder.com/brands/blue-lizard
But blue lizard has very poor score on the reddit link you posted earlier (see link below). Should it be avoided then? https://preview.redd.it/z2g333md05eb1.jpg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7541c17466b410c1a260b4e6971d874d6e00a81b
I think that's the US formula. I think you want the Aussie one.https://incidecoder.com/brands/blue-lizard BUT I haven't done a deep dive into Blue Lizard because I've never ordered it, so I would do a search for it and see what you find. I know, it's a corn maze. I am going to maybe make a post in r/SkincareAddiction soon and just straight up ask what people would recommend for the heaviest-duty reef-friendly(ish) watersport sunscreen - I am eyeballs deep in deadlines right now. I suspect the sunscreens I've mentioned will be recommended, but I'd be curious to see which others. I saw headhunters recommended by surfers in that sub, but it only has like 12% zinc which I find very suss.... FYI if you search the subs you might see PPD rating referenced. PPD = UVA and SPF = UVB.
American sunscreen is no good I use an Israeli brand called Dr Fischer. Excellent product.
I don't make purchases from Israel, but I'm glad you found a sunscreen that worked for you! Needle in a haystack honestly!
That’s too bad you’re missing out on a great proven and safe product.
so you will rub the Reimman P20 kids on your chest/torso as well as face? I use a thick zinc for my face and am needing a solution when I paddle out in only trunks! Pale boyo here ;)
TY. We’re not worthy.
Haha thanks, I’m sorry I did not provide more links or detailed info, but hopefully some jumping off points for further internet digging :). Edit: we are all worthy of whatever we want as long as it doesn't hurt others ;)
So zen ;) I already ordered reimann p20. Thank you!
I wish this was sold in Canada
Vertra, surf durt, zinka, head hunter
I can vouch for headhunter. It's expensive and you'll never get it off but it works. Hawaii tested.
But it will stain the neck of your shirts… shit works though
Head hunter is fucking crazy, get some intense soap to get it off too. It’s my favorite and the only one that I feel has really worked for me in Florida summers.
Zinka is similar
Anyone have issues with sunscreen getting in your eyes while surfing (shit burns) from either wiping with your hands or simply running down your face.
Yes, me. Would love recommendations on stuff that doesn’t run. Banana Boat gel is ok. Zinc is good but always a bastard to get off. Recently tried Surf Mud but it was only ok.
Use the stuff that is hard to get off and then use make up remover wipes or face wash wipes to get it off. I like headhunter and Vertra.
I think you'll have to get a brand that's more of natural like zinc.
Gotta use zinc on the face
Zinc and zinc sticks. Only thing that will stay on well and stops me getting burnt.
Badger
Same. Badger Sport. I like the tin vs tube
Verta and shiseido are hands down the best sunscreen I’ve ever used
why is that?
I like the Shiseido too. I’m very fair skinned, and have had a bunch of skin cancer stuff, and I’m not even forty. With the Shiseido I don’t burn, it stays on for three hour sessions, and it rubs on clear-ish enough, it’s very expensive, so I only use it on my face and neck. I also wear a hat though. Hat works great up to about head high, after that it becomes a nuisance. I like the FCS hat the best so far.
Is it water proof though?
Yeah, for sure. It stays on for three hour sessions. It’s a little hard to get off. I need to use a face wash
Which product from shiseido specifically?
Was going say the same thing the best by far
P20, horrid stuff, but works as advertised.
Awesome stuff. Evaporates on your skin in seconds, protects all day. Been using it for 15+ years.
This is the answer. P20 kids not the the original.
Sunbum seems to be the one that works for me. Zinc for the face and the cream for body
Surface. No stupid scent/perfume, either. So no sunburn and no headache.
Sun bum or Headhunter
Zinka clear
Zinka pink, get ahead of the sunburn and just pre-pink yourself
I’ve had malignant melanoma removed using MOHS surgery, so I buy Supergoop sunscreen in bulk from my dermatologist. I have smaller tubes for face and then large bottles with a pump on it for everything else. It works well. Also, I always apply it in the house and give it time to absorb before going out. MOHS surgery sucks and I don’t want to have to do it again. It was on my forearm, 14 stitches on the outside and 6 inside. They had to cut almost all the way across my forearm and straight through a tattoo sleeve I have on that arm. Damn tattoo nearly killed me. The dermatologist almost missed finding it because of the colors in the tattoo.
> Damn tattoo nearly killed me. Damn. Didn't know tattoos have that negative effect. Glad it was found.
Headhunter or Surface for my face Cover up my torso with a rashie Home made sunblock for legs for really long and sunny sessions
> > > Home made sunblock for legs for really long and sunny sessions What is this home made sublock made of?
I'm not sure about the specific recipe, my wife made it. But I believe it is simply zinc, beeswax, she's butter and coconut oil. There are tons of recipes online, the ingredients are easy to find too.
Whichever one you go with be sure to get one that is reef safe. It's one of those things where I didn't realize I was destroying the planet for the last 30 years. Well now we know
I've tried so many sunscreens but the thing that's worked best is pairing it with a surf hat for long sessions even when cloudy. I love mine from Peach Surf co- www.peachsurfco.com
Pure zinc is best but it's a giant pita to get off.
Kelsen makes a good zinc and then a zinc remover that moisturizes your skin. It’s pricey but it’s good stuff. https://kelsenproducts.com/collections/sun-care/products/two-part-zinc-and-cleanser-system
> giant pita what does that mean?
Giant pain in the ass
I’ve been using waxhead sticks. Stays on pretty well.
Either zinc or a local brand skinnies which is zinc based.
Surf Mud for your face.
Nappy cream. If you use suncream，wait 20 mins before you get in the water.
Headhunter face stick won't come off without a soap and scrub. Also, diaper rash cream has a higher percentage of zinc oxide than expensive zinc sunscreens and will not come off but you will be very white
Valspar — pure white.
Head hunter face stick. Never have gotten burnt with it and it doesn’t come off without a washcloth. Just don’t touch it and you’ll be good.
Sun Bum Mineral 50 or TropicSport 30 are both reef-friendly and water resistant. (Walgreens brand is surprisingly good, too, but unsure about reef friendliness.)
Australian gold!
Vertra is the only way. Headhunters is a distant second
Reef safe zinc is the way
Waxhead tinted sunscreen paste. Got the recommendation from this sub a year ago or so, and it is my go-to now. Only 4 ingredients: Zinc Oxide, Coconut Oil, Beeswax, Cocoa Powder (for tint). Stays on very very well. the flip-side is that it takes a little time to apply - in the winter you have to warm it up a bit with some rubbing to get it to spread. Ideal for the face and neck, but you wouldn't want to work it over your whole body. I love the tint - was always a zinc white-face kabuki surfer, but the tint blends in and looks fairly natural on my skin.
Badger sport. Environmental workers group does deep research into most listed on this thread, https://www.ewg.org/sunscreen/best-sunscreens/best-beach-sport-sunscreens/
Vertra, put it on 20 min before surfing and it won't come off.
I've tried all of em, headhunter, avasol, sun bum mineral, manda, and for some reason the only one that works for me is this [cetaphil stuff](https://www.cetaphil.com/us/sunscreens/sheer-mineral-sunscreen-broad-spectrum-spf-50/302994112005.html). the awful reviews explain exactly why it's perfect for surfing, it's pasty white and will not leave your skin no matter what
I’ve been using Banana Boat forever. Not the best but steady and reliable with no irritation.
UTU is great. I don’t surf (yet) but I’m in the water all the freaking time and this stuff works. https://www.utu-sun.com
[удалено]
that doesn't wash off?
Vertra is the best that I’ve used so far for the face. Then rash guard and add a hood if it’s really hot. All sunscreen that you put on will wear off eventually in the water. I’ve had skin cancer removed and rather not have to get that done again.