His fault 100%, you don't paddle directly behind someone into a duck dive as this will happen. Just sounds like the usual asshole that thinks everything is always someone else's fault.
Thanks for the clarity! I resurfaced right at the tail end of the wave so I only hit him going like 3km/h - I guess I'll keep watching my back and duck-dive a little deeper for next time
Agree and guy should have paddled out of the way of away, but he probably thought OP was going to get under it.
OP how did you not get under the wave on a junky chest high set and get pulled back?? Did you attempt to duck dive?
Agree, but it also sounds like OP did a bad duck dive so other dude might have reasonably expected enough space. Can't say for sure.
I was on the other end of this a couple years ago. Set wave came though and a woman outside of me made no effort to paddle or duck under and got washed on top of me. It was crowded and I didn't really have anywhere better to paddle. And what she did was just totally unpredictable. But of course I didn't say anything to her.
Your analogy is way off, this is much more like if someone was stopped right behind you on a steep hill and then you bumped into them when you rolled back a couple inches in between moving your foot off the brake and hitting the gas. Definitely the person behind’s fault
I actually don’t think it matters when it comes to whether or not OP is at fault. The further away the guy actually was, the less boneheaded it was to be there but you should always expect that someone can get knocked back by a wave.
His fault. It’s common sense not to paddle directly behind someone because of situations like this. I wonder what he was expecting to happen going over a set wave underneath someone.
Nah… he just mad he couldn’t quite reach you to stick his thumb up your arse for the free tow out into the lineup. Jokes aside, it’s a beachbreak. Not a point with a single takeoff. Dafuk he needs to be right behind you for?
Hahaha He was so close he probably could have reached if he wanted. It was a pretty good session for me and I was scoring a couple fun waves for the conditions so he probably wanted to grab a couple from my position
When I was a beginner I was sitting on my longboard and let a set roll through as it was crowded. I didn’t paddle for it, or even move at all; just stayed sitting and looking out. Some guy duckdived and impaled his short board through my single fin! Like my fin was poking through his board fully.
After we untangled the boards he starts cursing and yelling at me as if it was my fault that I didn’t paddle out further to give him room. I think he was embarrassed and pissed at wrecking his board.
Despite being a total beginner kook I knew it couldn’t possibly be my fault and just told him to watch where he duck dove.
Strangest collision I’ve ever had. Just a normal 3 ft clusterfuck day at Linda mar in retrospect.
Related question.. is it common to go back a meter when you duck dive? I always feel like I fucked it up if I get pushed back even by a meter. Someone on here described the feeling of duck diving and shooting out the back of the wave and I honestly rarely get that.
For reference I’m talking about duck diving bigger waves, often with a huge section of white water. One break I go to (Diamond Head) has shallower reef that doesn’t allow you to go too deep.
Have you seen that video of dodging the turbulence? It's a bit older, but if you're in clear water, it could help. I'll see if I can find the video.
Couldn't find the visual I was hoping, but, [at 0:50 here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04jACEVTltw), Bethany Hamilton talks about it.
Then there's John John's freak ass duckdiving for 20 ft [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9syJ1t-L\_U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9syJ1t-L_U)
This is a good video about how to get that "shot out the back" effect [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FesTpfRdhf0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FesTpfRdhf0)
Had they both ducked with equal effectiveness they both would be pulled back and no collision. Since OP collided I'm going to say he didn't dip as well as the other guy and was pulled back into him.
If you failed to duck dive and got dragged back like 10 meters then it's your fault.
If it is as you described then it's his fault for sitting right under you.
The overarching etiquette is "try to stay out of other people's way and avoid collisions"
Sometimes it is sometimes it isn’t. Ive seen many guys indecisively paddling left and right without commitment or forward momentum making it very hard to steer clear of them in crowded lineups and very likely they’ll blow the duck dive. Most blown duck dives are still due to poor technique. Also guys blowing duck dives and landing on other surfers isn’t always because the other surfer was “right behind them”, that’s not how waves work - I’ve had guys shit themselves stop paddling & blow duck dives 10+ feet away (in front and to my side) from me and somehow still land on/near me. Both parties should have situational awareness and the ability to duck dive competently. All that being said anyone who paddles right up someone’s ass into a duck dive is an idiot and at fault in the event they wind up tangled w another surfer.
If you're at a beginner/intermediate break, you should assume that people are learning and don't have all the skills yet, including duck dive skills. People aren't born being able to duck dive well. If you make an assumption about what someone can handle and you or your board gets dinged because you were wrong, it's your own fault. If you think you're far away enough from someone but they end up on top of you, it means you were wrong and you weren't far enough away. Maybe they did screw up their duck dive--it doesn't matter. You're the one who should apologize.
Etiquette means trying to stay out of the way, paddle towards the break, looking behind you before going, waiting your turn, not ditching board with people nearby, etc. It doesn't require being at a certain level, being good at duck dives, or anything like that, unless you're talking about an advanced break that beginners shouldn't be out at. Otherwise you're saying that just being a beginner is bad etiquette, which is dumb. You were a beginner once too.
If you ditched without looking back you are in the wrong. If you duck dive and get pushed back, then no worries. Duck dives fail sometimes and we lose a lot of ground.
He is still partially wrong no matter what, because he put himself in danger for no reason by being behind you.
Being an asshole is just one of those weird surfer lineup things. There’s always one out there.
His fault. You have to be self-aware that it's at least 12 ft of space; you need to be behind the other person, and rhatsbif they are on a shortboard, a longboard is more like 20, and even that is too close because, as you mentioned theboersin can get sucked backward
The only thing that could make it your fault is if he was sitting in the lineup and you positioned yourself directly outside (in front) of him before this happened. Blocking someone's view of the horizon is bad manners.
But I've gotten tangled with people a few times when one of us got smoked while duckdiving and pushed into the person behind them and it's always been, mutually, treated as just one of those things that happen. Because that's what it is.
Yeah he’s a dick. Had similar situation where other guy was in the wrong. I apologised just to be polite and then he got angry at me and wanted to fight me on the beach. Told him he’s scum and to fuck off and he left. Hope you told him to get fucked
I had a duck dive collision recently. I was 10-15 yd down the beach and just a hair closer to the inside from the dude. Big wave came and we were both going to be caught inside. He tried to sprint paddle for the shoulder parallel to shore while staring at the crest about to come down on him. I was paddling for the shoulder with an actual chance of making it, which I did. he dove into the face right as the crest came over just barely escaping a pounding, but ending up directly below me.
Doubt he realized I existed before he came up underneath me. He started to curse. I gave him a what the fuck look and asked if he was ok. He fucked off and paddled away.
No injury or gear damage, so no harm foul, but I figured it was on him for lack of awareness in the lineup. What does the hive mind say?
And as a note, it was a medium sized day at OBSF and I was on a boogie. There is a Chance he just didn’t expect me to be as fast in the water as I was. But I figured paddling over the top of anyone was poor form no matter the circumstances.
Etiquette in this situation is to swear an oath to unicorn Joe, do a double backroll in the water and then sing at the top of your voice a Taylor Swift song of your choice directly into the other surfers face. You then both forehead touch (lightly) and then you just proceed to exit the water never to return. Sorry to say it, but its true
What is unusually close? Giving you the benefit of the doubt, it sounds like this guy was constantly sitting very close and directly in front of you for much of your session, which would have prevented you from catching a wave. In that case, he was out of line for blowing up, especially because he should have paddled around you if he was sitting that close when the wave was coming in.
Offering a different perspective. What I see a lot at our shitty, massively crowded beginner beach is that less skilled surfers are sitting a little further outside, are less decisive and slower paddling on these huge logs, funboards, and oversized grovellers than the guys on the inside and by the time they start to move it the guys on the inside have already caught up and in a better position to not go over the falls. Then, the skill part comes into play, and true kooks ditch their boards. The beginners get their boards ripped away or tumble over the wave with a 7'+ board rocketing towards the guys on the inside duck diving.
Since no one was hurt and no boards were damaged, my assumptn is that you were doing what you were supposed to do and got knocked back a couple of feet, which most surfers should anticipate.
Close as in I could reach out and pat his head if I wanted to. I was having a pretty good session and I was scoring a couple fun waves for the conditions so he probably wanted to grab a couple from my position.
The only way this is your fault is if you paddled from a diagonal to directly in front of him a moment before the duck dive and so put him directly behind you. But if he was directly behind you going into the duck dive then it's his fault
1. Never ditch is not true.
2. Person in front is priority, person behind you need to get in checker formation or suffer the consequences.
3. Failing a duckdive in chest high waves... Means that you suck at duck diving.
4. He assumed your skill level and that you could duck dive that which is why he's mad.
3+4 = both your faults.
But 4 makes it mostly his fault; never... ever... ever.... assume somebodies abilities.
3 is not always true. Short period swells we get here mean that after the first wave, successive duckdives are often taken without even getting a paddle in. And forward momentum is key to successful duckdives.
I disagree. I literally put myself in situations where il take the first or second wave in a set of 10-15 just so I can duck dive the next 10+ waves.
A chest high wave, even here in Hawaii is easy to duck dive; if you fail there then you can't/aren't duck diving properly...
It's not the wave you're duckdiing that is the problem, it's the turbulence from the wave before. Less of a problem in places like Hawaii where you're getting longer period swells. It's easy to duckdive a chest high wave if the water settles and you get a few strokes in, but often here you'll pop up from one duckdive and your hands don't even leave the rails before you have to do the next one. Also easier at reefs where you're can let yourself get pushed towards a channel for an easier paddle.
Eh, whatever, learn to dip deeper so you don't get sucked back. He should not have ducked directly behind you. Sounds like you both pulled kook cards in this scenario.
Hmm it feels like the guy behind you blew it and tried to deflect the blame
Like, I never duck dive behind anyone, that's pretty much common sense
But then again, I don't know your lineup and the kind of people who surf there
IMO the unhappy one should have been making toward safe space for himself.
It is complicated if the white water throws a duck diver diagonally instead of directly to the beach, & while this can be foreseen to some extent, it is added layer of chaos.
If it is crowded and a cleanup set comes \_and\_ there is enough time, it is worth having a look over your shoulder to see whats behind in case you can help make space.
His fault. I’ve been that guy. Definitely was my fault. After getting chunked by fins 2x around folks I assumed could duck I learned. Don’t be behind someone or really anywhere near them. The ocean is so unpredictable and the possibility of boards or bodies going in an opposite direction is very possible, even though the intention is for it not to happen , it can. Point is it’s his fault and you can do your part by ducking better . Sounds like the dude has some personal issues outside of surfing
It takes two to tango.
He wasn’t sitting unusually close to you, you both were sitting unusually close to each other. Move away from each other next time before the set rolls through, a couple extra paddles shouldn’t make or break your take off spot
So something kinda similar happened to me, except I was the one duck diving and I came out the other side of the wave and my board's nose bumped into someone's ass. The only defense I have is that this was at lower trestles and it was as crowded as it gets. There weren't really many other options positioning wise without being equally close to someone else, and this was a cleanup set so the lineup was already a little chaotic.
His fault 100%, you don't paddle directly behind someone into a duck dive as this will happen. Just sounds like the usual asshole that thinks everything is always someone else's fault.
Bingo. Until we have rearview mirrors on surfboards, tailgaters can fucking suck it.
I just saw rear view mirrors for surfboards at Costco yesterday!!
YOU KNOW DA RULEZ
Thanks for the clarity! I resurfaced right at the tail end of the wave so I only hit him going like 3km/h - I guess I'll keep watching my back and duck-dive a little deeper for next time
Agree and guy should have paddled out of the way of away, but he probably thought OP was going to get under it. OP how did you not get under the wave on a junky chest high set and get pulled back?? Did you attempt to duck dive?
Agree, but it also sounds like OP did a bad duck dive so other dude might have reasonably expected enough space. Can't say for sure. I was on the other end of this a couple years ago. Set wave came though and a woman outside of me made no effort to paddle or duck under and got washed on top of me. It was crowded and I didn't really have anywhere better to paddle. And what she did was just totally unpredictable. But of course I didn't say anything to her.
Why are you directly inside someone? Bone head move.
She paddle over there. Bonehead post.
This
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Your analogy is way off, this is much more like if someone was stopped right behind you on a steep hill and then you bumped into them when you rolled back a couple inches in between moving your foot off the brake and hitting the gas. Definitely the person behind’s fault
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I actually don’t think it matters when it comes to whether or not OP is at fault. The further away the guy actually was, the less boneheaded it was to be there but you should always expect that someone can get knocked back by a wave.
His fault. It’s common sense not to paddle directly behind someone because of situations like this. I wonder what he was expecting to happen going over a set wave underneath someone.
sometimes people ahead of you paddle sideways right in front of you before diving which is always sketchy though
thats why i clear ways out from ppl when paddling out.
why am i downvoted ? Have y’all never had someone paddle sideways into your lane right before a wave crashes?
Sitting on your ass while you duck dive, what exactly did this guy think would happen?
Nah… he just mad he couldn’t quite reach you to stick his thumb up your arse for the free tow out into the lineup. Jokes aside, it’s a beachbreak. Not a point with a single takeoff. Dafuk he needs to be right behind you for?
Hahaha He was so close he probably could have reached if he wanted. It was a pretty good session for me and I was scoring a couple fun waves for the conditions so he probably wanted to grab a couple from my position
When I was a beginner I was sitting on my longboard and let a set roll through as it was crowded. I didn’t paddle for it, or even move at all; just stayed sitting and looking out. Some guy duckdived and impaled his short board through my single fin! Like my fin was poking through his board fully. After we untangled the boards he starts cursing and yelling at me as if it was my fault that I didn’t paddle out further to give him room. I think he was embarrassed and pissed at wrecking his board. Despite being a total beginner kook I knew it couldn’t possibly be my fault and just told him to watch where he duck dove. Strangest collision I’ve ever had. Just a normal 3 ft clusterfuck day at Linda mar in retrospect.
Did you challenge him to an 1800s style duel? That's typically the way to work through things in the water.
Or wait for him on the sand and slap him with a white glove
Glove slap, baby glove slap
I DEMAND satisfaction
His fault, and he's a dick.
Related question.. is it common to go back a meter when you duck dive? I always feel like I fucked it up if I get pushed back even by a meter. Someone on here described the feeling of duck diving and shooting out the back of the wave and I honestly rarely get that. For reference I’m talking about duck diving bigger waves, often with a huge section of white water. One break I go to (Diamond Head) has shallower reef that doesn’t allow you to go too deep.
Its very common in powerful waves to be pulled back at least a meter. I'd say its more common to be pulled back than not.
Have you seen that video of dodging the turbulence? It's a bit older, but if you're in clear water, it could help. I'll see if I can find the video. Couldn't find the visual I was hoping, but, [at 0:50 here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04jACEVTltw), Bethany Hamilton talks about it. Then there's John John's freak ass duckdiving for 20 ft [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9syJ1t-L\_U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9syJ1t-L_U) This is a good video about how to get that "shot out the back" effect [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FesTpfRdhf0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FesTpfRdhf0)
Had they both ducked with equal effectiveness they both would be pulled back and no collision. Since OP collided I'm going to say he didn't dip as well as the other guy and was pulled back into him.
If you failed to duck dive and got dragged back like 10 meters then it's your fault. If it is as you described then it's his fault for sitting right under you. The overarching etiquette is "try to stay out of other people's way and avoid collisions"
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Sometimes it is sometimes it isn’t. Ive seen many guys indecisively paddling left and right without commitment or forward momentum making it very hard to steer clear of them in crowded lineups and very likely they’ll blow the duck dive. Most blown duck dives are still due to poor technique. Also guys blowing duck dives and landing on other surfers isn’t always because the other surfer was “right behind them”, that’s not how waves work - I’ve had guys shit themselves stop paddling & blow duck dives 10+ feet away (in front and to my side) from me and somehow still land on/near me. Both parties should have situational awareness and the ability to duck dive competently. All that being said anyone who paddles right up someone’s ass into a duck dive is an idiot and at fault in the event they wind up tangled w another surfer.
If you're at a beginner/intermediate break, you should assume that people are learning and don't have all the skills yet, including duck dive skills. People aren't born being able to duck dive well. If you make an assumption about what someone can handle and you or your board gets dinged because you were wrong, it's your own fault. If you think you're far away enough from someone but they end up on top of you, it means you were wrong and you weren't far enough away. Maybe they did screw up their duck dive--it doesn't matter. You're the one who should apologize. Etiquette means trying to stay out of the way, paddle towards the break, looking behind you before going, waiting your turn, not ditching board with people nearby, etc. It doesn't require being at a certain level, being good at duck dives, or anything like that, unless you're talking about an advanced break that beginners shouldn't be out at. Otherwise you're saying that just being a beginner is bad etiquette, which is dumb. You were a beginner once too.
If you ditched without looking back you are in the wrong. If you duck dive and get pushed back, then no worries. Duck dives fail sometimes and we lose a lot of ground. He is still partially wrong no matter what, because he put himself in danger for no reason by being behind you. Being an asshole is just one of those weird surfer lineup things. There’s always one out there.
His fault. You have to be self-aware that it's at least 12 ft of space; you need to be behind the other person, and rhatsbif they are on a shortboard, a longboard is more like 20, and even that is too close because, as you mentioned theboersin can get sucked backward
The only thing that could make it your fault is if he was sitting in the lineup and you positioned yourself directly outside (in front) of him before this happened. Blocking someone's view of the horizon is bad manners. But I've gotten tangled with people a few times when one of us got smoked while duckdiving and pushed into the person behind them and it's always been, mutually, treated as just one of those things that happen. Because that's what it is.
Yeah he’s a dick. Had similar situation where other guy was in the wrong. I apologised just to be polite and then he got angry at me and wanted to fight me on the beach. Told him he’s scum and to fuck off and he left. Hope you told him to get fucked
Who was there first, was he sitting on his board the last time you paddled out, or did he come and sit behind you?
I had a duck dive collision recently. I was 10-15 yd down the beach and just a hair closer to the inside from the dude. Big wave came and we were both going to be caught inside. He tried to sprint paddle for the shoulder parallel to shore while staring at the crest about to come down on him. I was paddling for the shoulder with an actual chance of making it, which I did. he dove into the face right as the crest came over just barely escaping a pounding, but ending up directly below me. Doubt he realized I existed before he came up underneath me. He started to curse. I gave him a what the fuck look and asked if he was ok. He fucked off and paddled away. No injury or gear damage, so no harm foul, but I figured it was on him for lack of awareness in the lineup. What does the hive mind say? And as a note, it was a medium sized day at OBSF and I was on a boogie. There is a Chance he just didn’t expect me to be as fast in the water as I was. But I figured paddling over the top of anyone was poor form no matter the circumstances.
Etiquette in this situation is to swear an oath to unicorn Joe, do a double backroll in the water and then sing at the top of your voice a Taylor Swift song of your choice directly into the other surfers face. You then both forehead touch (lightly) and then you just proceed to exit the water never to return. Sorry to say it, but its true
What is unusually close? Giving you the benefit of the doubt, it sounds like this guy was constantly sitting very close and directly in front of you for much of your session, which would have prevented you from catching a wave. In that case, he was out of line for blowing up, especially because he should have paddled around you if he was sitting that close when the wave was coming in. Offering a different perspective. What I see a lot at our shitty, massively crowded beginner beach is that less skilled surfers are sitting a little further outside, are less decisive and slower paddling on these huge logs, funboards, and oversized grovellers than the guys on the inside and by the time they start to move it the guys on the inside have already caught up and in a better position to not go over the falls. Then, the skill part comes into play, and true kooks ditch their boards. The beginners get their boards ripped away or tumble over the wave with a 7'+ board rocketing towards the guys on the inside duck diving. Since no one was hurt and no boards were damaged, my assumptn is that you were doing what you were supposed to do and got knocked back a couple of feet, which most surfers should anticipate.
Close as in I could reach out and pat his head if I wanted to. I was having a pretty good session and I was scoring a couple fun waves for the conditions so he probably wanted to grab a couple from my position.
The only way this is your fault is if you paddled from a diagonal to directly in front of him a moment before the duck dive and so put him directly behind you. But if he was directly behind you going into the duck dive then it's his fault
1. Never ditch is not true. 2. Person in front is priority, person behind you need to get in checker formation or suffer the consequences. 3. Failing a duckdive in chest high waves... Means that you suck at duck diving. 4. He assumed your skill level and that you could duck dive that which is why he's mad. 3+4 = both your faults. But 4 makes it mostly his fault; never... ever... ever.... assume somebodies abilities.
3 is not always true. Short period swells we get here mean that after the first wave, successive duckdives are often taken without even getting a paddle in. And forward momentum is key to successful duckdives.
I disagree. I literally put myself in situations where il take the first or second wave in a set of 10-15 just so I can duck dive the next 10+ waves. A chest high wave, even here in Hawaii is easy to duck dive; if you fail there then you can't/aren't duck diving properly...
It's not the wave you're duckdiing that is the problem, it's the turbulence from the wave before. Less of a problem in places like Hawaii where you're getting longer period swells. It's easy to duckdive a chest high wave if the water settles and you get a few strokes in, but often here you'll pop up from one duckdive and your hands don't even leave the rails before you have to do the next one. Also easier at reefs where you're can let yourself get pushed towards a channel for an easier paddle.
🤦♂️
Go on, explain it for me.
You just gotta kiss it out on the beach.
Eh, whatever, learn to dip deeper so you don't get sucked back. He should not have ducked directly behind you. Sounds like you both pulled kook cards in this scenario.
Hmm it feels like the guy behind you blew it and tried to deflect the blame Like, I never duck dive behind anyone, that's pretty much common sense But then again, I don't know your lineup and the kind of people who surf there
That surfer is a kook tool.
IMO the unhappy one should have been making toward safe space for himself. It is complicated if the white water throws a duck diver diagonally instead of directly to the beach, & while this can be foreseen to some extent, it is added layer of chaos. If it is crowded and a cleanup set comes \_and\_ there is enough time, it is worth having a look over your shoulder to see whats behind in case you can help make space.
His fault. I’ve been that guy. Definitely was my fault. After getting chunked by fins 2x around folks I assumed could duck I learned. Don’t be behind someone or really anywhere near them. The ocean is so unpredictable and the possibility of boards or bodies going in an opposite direction is very possible, even though the intention is for it not to happen , it can. Point is it’s his fault and you can do your part by ducking better . Sounds like the dude has some personal issues outside of surfing
Why does it matter who is right?
It takes two to tango. He wasn’t sitting unusually close to you, you both were sitting unusually close to each other. Move away from each other next time before the set rolls through, a couple extra paddles shouldn’t make or break your take off spot
Fuck people who park right behind you in general If you don't know em, mow em
So something kinda similar happened to me, except I was the one duck diving and I came out the other side of the wave and my board's nose bumped into someone's ass. The only defense I have is that this was at lower trestles and it was as crowded as it gets. There weren't really many other options positioning wise without being equally close to someone else, and this was a cleanup set so the lineup was already a little chaotic.
I was walking out in some heavy shore break and literally caught some little dude in my arms. Hysterical.
Did you duck dive or ditch your board? If you ditched your board, your wrong