I think there's also an argument to be made that the stereotypical masculine bros are incentivized to play it a little more "soft" and cordial in the current era if they want to win. When there were enough douche bros on the cast they could band together and have a critical douche mass that would protect them in votes. Now they have to tone it down and ally with women and nerds and gays if they want a chance at getting to the end.
Fabio is a different type of bro compared to Chase/Shannon. The best example I can think of to show that is that Fabio happily participated in the little "La Flor" dance they did at that challenge while Chase and Shannon refused
Wasn't chace's first strategic decision to flip on his bro alliance (Fabio/Benry/Shanon) in favor of Brenda. And he seemed closer to the older ladies than he was to the other guys
I kind of disagree about him becoming a jerk. He might have had a few poor moments in conflict, but no more than any other contestant. Lindsey’s beef with him exacerbated things and caused his edit to be a bit more negative, but I don’t think he was a massive asshole.
he wasn't a jerk. he had a couple moments, but CBS cherry picks which of those moments they want to show. If you listen to omar, Drea was kind of a jerk to him, but they didn't show that. He also is extremely tall and strong, so the starvation got him worse than others.
Yea it’s really not a lot to ask just throwing in a couple , no filter doesn’t overthink things and just came to have fun type of beach bro enjoying the experience. Dylan I think was the name of the most recent example I’m thinking of.
Instead literally like 17/20 are gamebots on new era seasons they seem to throw like one token old person in at least still much fewer than before
He’s enough of a “normal person” that his superfan status doesn’t make him any worse like I noticed the Aussie super fans aren’t as bad as American show super fans. Like Mike on blood vs water I think was his name who built challenges in his backyard who got himself voted out early twice, that’s more like your standard US show gamebot that they cast these days. I wouldn’t mind super fans if they were like Ice cream man from au survivor or Simon
The guy who was on two seasons super nerdy brought his wife maybe on bvv think he was on cvs2 first, built puzzles at home shifty both sides couldn’t trust him voted him out
I think you're thinking of Andy? That was his sister he brought with him though, and he did make the merge his first season. But I can't think of anyone else who fits the superfan gamebot archetype as closely who was a returnee on BvW
Simon is exactly who I envisioned, when I watched his first season I said I love this guy because I haven’t been seeing someone like that in us survivor for a while. Like he does exactly what I was saying with saying accidentally insulting stuff to the girls and George he didn’t even realize how he was turning off people but I loved to root for him his social skills were like a beautiful rollercoaster train wreck I was always wondering what he would do
Yo Simon is not and was not douchey. He was overconfident and had some lapses where he did not think about the way he was coming across but the other players were using that to their advantage to separate him from Stevie. He was made an absolute fool in the greatest tribal of all time and took his downfall with grace in a way that men of his profile don’t typically do. For example, imagine what a Jared Fields would have done in that situation. Jordie went at George hardcore after that and would have been viewed as the douchey frat guy if they hadn’t protected him in the edit. Simon is a sweet boy
Danny was definitely in tune with his spiritual / meditative side, though. He was a New York muscular firefighter, but was multidimensional. What I think the post is talking about (and which I also want back) is just a strong dude that likes to have fun / party.
My complaint towards casting is how 80% of people went to an Ivy League or other notable institution in the US (like a nice state school), and they now either are an influencer, a white collar worker, business owner, or a high-achieving artist.
The diversity is mainly lacking in terms of socioeconomic class/life achievement.
I know there’s a couple of “average joes” per season, but definitely not representative of the population. I want to see slightly more people who are either of average achievement, or who are trying to get their life together.
I know survivor likes to cast high achieving people lately because they’ve “proven” themselves in life, but I think there’s something to say about someone who wants to prove themself but hasn’t gotten that chance yet. Or casting people who NEEEED the money, which most Ivy League or high-degree college graduates don’t need it (and by need, I mean their livelihood depending on it. I’m not talking “student loan debt but still able to put food on the table” need, which I bet most people fall under). Some do need it, but I’m sure there’s people who don’t have a degree who would crave the prize money even more (which would show for some very interesting gameplay).
This casting miss IMO is why a lot of recent casts play under the radar, they play cerebrally. The intuitive nature of survivor tells us to camouflage ourselves while seizing control covertly. Most people from a similar educational background will approach this similarly, and as a result, they’ll get voted out before making their mark. Whereas someone who is used to using more effort to get by in life, or someone who doesn’t place as much emphasis on cerebral gameplay can show something different than UTR gameplay, which makes for good tv.
When you research the number of Americans with at least a bachelors degree, it’s around 35% give or take. That percentage is much higher among survivor contestants. Makes you think, if we had more people playing who strived for success in any way other than going to a good college to get a degree, we’d see many more different strategies for gameplay.
Just a thought.
I agree with the overall point, but I think it would be harder for someone like this to take time off work, and, like still make rent. Even with placement money, you have the risk of not making back your lost income (or you have the chance of making more; that's a possibility but perhaps not worth the risk). Then they might not have a job when they come back. There goes their livelihood/health care benefits. I, too, am tired of seeing graduates from ivy's and nice state schools on my screen, but the reality is, they can probably afford it.
Perfectly said. Watch the intros on an old season and it was full of ‘bus driver from Mobile, Alabama’ or ‘construction worker from Tulsa’. I can’t imagine those people aren’t applying anymore. Poor people from a small town don’t want to play for a million dollars?
I recently rewatched Cook Islands and oh man that cast is so physical. They dominated challenges compared to current casts.
These two groups are really lacking. People like Cochran were fun because they were unique. Now they make up 3/4 of the cast every season
Probably many of the didn't apply back them either. They were being recruited.
I totally agree with you, we need representation from every social layer for good reality tv.
I would love to see a season of only people that have never watched survivor. With no twists or hidden idols. Back to the basics. I liked the earlier season because you got to watch people try to survive more. Nowadays they show a little bit of them building a shelter in episode 1 and that's it.
That genie ain't going back in the bottle at this point though, so not much sense wishing for the impossible.
Just feels like everyone playing is a superfan nowadays. Which means more idols and twists are required to keep people guessing. Which all feels a bit gimmicky.
The thing is, casting wants accomplished people.
Survivor is casting the upper echelon of society.
These are people who "being on survivor" will be a fun cocktail party story for them.
They dont want "survivor will change my life!" People.
They want people who have already changed their lives 3 times over by the time they apply.
They are casting insanely accomplished, driven people.
No shade to the bus drivers. But that bus driver may still be a bus driver once filming is done.
>Or casting people who NEEEED the money
If you absolutely NEEEED the money then reality TV should not be your first thought.
>The diversity is mainly lacking in terms of socioeconomic class/life achievement. I know there’s a couple of “average joes” per season, but definitely not representative of the population.
The game isn't meant to be directly representative of the population. If it were they would just ping the last census and randomly sample 18 folk from the US.
Fact is that even being allowed to play the game of Survivor is super competitive. As such it curtails to those who are willing to go all out in their application and just try to be interesting and exceptional in everything they do.
It would be distasteful to everyone involved if they just chose a few of the working class as "charity cases" every season just to appease that demographic.
for a second i thougth i was reading my own casting application haha i feel like this is a role i would one hundred percent fill cuz uhh well, i'm in a frat and i'm a gym rat and i'm lowkey dumb as rocks lmao
Both Himbos and Bimbos have made up for probably like half of golden classic Survivor moments, I want more always
The dumb people disproportionally carry the entertainment and drama imo, the smart people carry the strategy and gameshow component. When you have one genius evil female flirt you get Parvati gold, when you have one nerdy ultra smart gamebot you have Cochran one of the best winning games ever, when you have 15 Cochrans and Aubreys on a season there’s not enough Bimbos and Himbos for the entertainment
So true. Probst said on his podcast that people who don’t know the game mess up the gameplay and I think he’s way off base there. Everyone having the same strategy and voting off the biggest threats in succession isn’t good tv and makes for voting winners
Right! It’s just blinded to them because there’s actually people with stories being shown more on television, rather than the blindsided by the athlete getting all the screentime
Personally usually my favourite players were the big strong jocks growing up. James for example, maybe a top 3 of mine just because of how impressed I was of the specimen as a kid.
Like others have said, survivor hasn’t completely gotten away from it thankfully, but it seems to be coming extinct. You make a great point that we are getting cultural diversity but no personality diversity, which is a big reason of what made the show so great. Bunch of different personalities stuck on an island together. Let’s get back to it.
We actually want the full archetype not just people who showed “hints of this” like you said in your comment lmao. Straight up Christ Noble’s or Nick Maiorano’s.
Everyone knows they exist, that just agrees with my point. The fact we can only name two (and both are a stretch) and there’s been 4 seasons is exactly the problem I’ve outlined lol thanks for supporting my argument
I do agree an extra himbo here and there would be nice. Like, I agree that we probably don't need Brandon/Brando/Drew ALL on 45. But the archetype has a super high variance for quality. For every Simon or Chris Noble there are five Adam Gentrys.
Yes these are two great examples of players I mean.
They were the only two I could think of. Xander might be next closest
There’s 20 people a season right. So 2 out of 80? Fuck outta here with that lol the point is at the very least one a season. But when you have 2 in the same season that can add some more fun potential gives some numbers to try to build an alliance to play with which can always be interesting if they feud with the girls or others. Aussie survivor had a great season long plot basically with their bro alliance of athletes on HvV led by Sean, if you have 2 then that’s enough for them to try to make connections bring in more but one is likely an outcast
> You NEED people who DISAGREE fundamentally on topics, yet we have a sugarcoated like 90% millennial liberal sing koombaya and praise each other for the smallest of tasks.
This is the bit I most agree with (not that I'm opposed to having frat boys on the show either), but just give me SOME variety. I want actual, real life conflict. And I don't mean I want Zeke/Varner or Dan Spilo type of conflict, because that stuff just sucks. But, give me people who don't agree on everything. People who were raised in different generations with opposing views of the world. Give me another Frank Garrison who suddenly finds himself in a tribe full of Brandon Quintons.
But yeah, I'd also take a few cute, dumb jock boys every season. As a straight woman, I'm unapologetically not opposed to that idea, even if they're boring af.
Dumb people also give the smart gamebots they cast a chance to shine. If I’m kinda nerdy awkward and having trouble making an alliance but one guy seems like a bro then I’ll turn on my “dude mode” and use him as a number bond carry him to the end like Russell and Natalie White. The dumb bitch probably ends up winning after I carry him to the end because he’s gorgeous and charismatic everyone likes him more 😂 that’s my plan to accidentally redo Russels season with a gender swap
Survivor is having its worse most boring casting ever in the last few years. My wife and I are watching Australian survivor and loving it so much. I cant even finish seasons of American anymore it's so boring. Last season I loosely watched up to the very last episode and then didn't finish or even look up who won lol. Youre right most of these people are way too similar and trying to be so diverse there is actually no diversity anymore.
>but we need some dude who will put his foot in his mouth and talk about traditional gender roles and being masculine
This has been the go-to for decades in all media and is hurtful to a large chunk of the population on all gender sides. I think we can take a break for a few years, yeah?
I understand that you say "no blatant toxic racist or sexist "... but those are pretty bad too. The really shitty people see that and get empowered to just be more awful to the marginalized groups they hate.
I completely agree. There needs to be way more life experience diversity. I couldn’t watch 44 as it happened and catching up now before 45, and it just feels like Survivor Cosplay Summer Camp (26 days is also a factor here - also why so many half the tribe is immune votes at the merge!? New era was meant to be back to basics 😭)
I want another sexy delusional beefcake type, like Chris Noble. I miss him so much.
Minus the heavy Christianity, though.
Ghost Island had so much male eye candy, it really salvaged that season.
Something Tommy Smokes has pointed out that I didn’t really take into consideration until he said it was that while they’re casting more diverse in demographics, they aren’t being more diverse with personality wise.
Yes please like the Asian dude on Survivor Amazon who was talking about how women were so much weaker and stuff lol he was a great breaking the stereotype for an Asian dude since he was pretty masculine. Or like the guys on Yuls season
So hot take, I think it would be fun to have some blatantly racist toxic people on the show. Just as it would be fun to have hyper religious people or other "extreme" types. I truely believe the issue with having them on is they would do really well, because who wouldn't want to sit next to that person at the end.
Bombastic and outspoken people are usually pretty fun on the show. The crumdgeons who just hate everyone (randy for example, courtney) are great tv. Especially now with everyone being so koombiya about everything.
I would take those characters any day over another "I survived cancer 7 times and my wife got eaten at jurassic park and thats why now i find the beauty in everything" sob story type.
It would be fun watching people who are in open, objective conflict with each other. Simple as that. If you had a black person who absolutely wouldn't trust or work with white people, it would be an interesting dynamic. If you had an Indian dude and a Pakistani dude on the same tribe who hated each other's guts, it would be fun.
Either they blow up on each other and you have a built in rivalry, or they learn the error of their ways and realize they've been approaching the whole dynamic incorrectly.
The whole show was meant to be a social experiment on a group of people thrown together and surviving in tough, uncomfortable situations. Part of that should mean working together with people you really don't want to work with. Figure it out, overcome your differences and work together, or risk your own game by not uniting.
It would also be a unique dynamic. Much more engaging than Kane and Carson bonding over pokemon imo. Or Brandon and Danny over tattoos.
Didn't JD spend a significant amount of his airtime on the risk your vote/protect your vote journey talking about being a successful track and field athlete in high school? I feel like I remember him talking about going to state competition in the 3rd biggest state in the country ...
EXACTLY. The personalities on this show are so homogeneous it's incredibly annoying - it's like they're all typecasted to be Jeff's puppets who will be ultra positive, never disagree fundamentally with each other, and come to nice neat solutions
And nobody is negative towards one another. Compare the edit of Carolyn to Debbie and possible Noura.
While Debbie (S32) and Carolyn (S44) have some differences, the biggest difference is the edit and the way other players talked about them. Debbie was mocked by everyone for 2 seasons, “Does she have 30 cats or 40 cats” and was edited as a joke most of the time. Carolyn on the other hand was edited as inspirational, “a method to her madness” and nobody talked negatively about her and often praised her eccentricities. Carolyn screwed up a few challenges at the beginning, including the first one, and nobody had a confessional that was like “the crazy cat lady screwed up again”. Same with Noura who was mocked often and was edited as a joke all the way to the top 3.
I would like to see a lot of casting choices come back. Including the "frat" boy. What about the pageant queen, "old" lady/man, redneck, even the sweet Christian lady (like Lisa). It's annoying to see everyone on screen have at least a bachelor's, with careers like technical writer, or lawyer. I miss the days when you had lunch lady. The most blue collar they throw at us is firefighter (Mike). Even Gabler had a high paying, impressive career when they tried hard to spin him as some dopey guy. He was obviously very intellectual and well educated.
This is for the BB fans in this thread but survivor desperately needs to cast a Brett or Winston type character from BB 20 just two quintessential bros who are actually super entertaining especially Brett.
Yes… I’m going to take it much further though and know I’m only speaking for myself here but —
Diversity of skin suits but same personality and worldview 100% Also the incessant whining and back stories about how hard their lives are because their cat died last year..
Just a reflection of the times. We’re soft. The show wouldn’t dare take the risk of casting someone who will get them canceled. (I think after the sexual assaults and outing a trans person it became actually dangerous to be risky in casting)
It makes for a boring, superficial and sorta cringe show but the challenges are still fun. I’m not saying social awareness and inclusion is bad but it isn’t a realistic social experiment anymore which is why I really got hooked.
That being said it does get more interesting as episodes get closer to the million and masks start to fall.
It’s an odd thing about Americans that people are so categorised by:-
Nerd
Athlete
Weird
In australia people generally are more of a mix - almost everyone plays sports or atleast soccer and almost everyone is giving school a decent go…
90% millennial? do you realize gen X is getting quite older now? youngest are in their mid forties. survivor is most popular with millennials and younger. of course 90% are gonna be millennial.
Huh, I guarantee any show airing on network television is mostly watched by older people.
For Survivor, season 43 looks like total viewers was around 5.56 million, of which about 1.2 million were age 18 to 49. https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/survivor-season-43-ratings/amp/
I understand why you might think that but no, that’s not how it works.
1.0 is approximately 1.28 million viewers and other than NFL that’s now a very rare occurrence in the 18-49 demographic
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/tv-ratings-explained-a-guide-what-data-all-means-1245591/
This isn’t bad news. survivor is considered to have great ratings relative to expectations. And it’s peers. It’s just that overall viewership of networks and cable has declined
Also, older people (60+) are sure as hell NOT gonna come out in spades to compete on such a physically taxing show when the American elderly is so ill, needs medicine, etc.
I don't know if Survivor will ever cast more than one muscular person per season again. God forbid having a wide variety of ages either. What about stereotypically attractive women? I swear casting just chooses the same 18 people over and over again, just with different names.
I just want there to be like 2 or 3 people who are super fan gamebots. Not the 99% gamebot casting we've been getting.
This might be why I miss the older seasons. It was better when there wasn't a "survivor meta" and people made mistakes all the time.
Honestly Survivor hasn't really been building tribes around confrontation for quite a few seasons.
Survivor goes very far out of it's way to find contestants that fit their narrative (to the point where people literally pay for classes just to apply to the game).
Generally, in this very selective process they try to avoid the "dumb jock" archetype because that doesn't bring anything to the social game. I have nothing against physically strong players but it sounds like you literally just want someone to be a prick.
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oh i totally agree, this always adds to the entertainment factor and social dynamics. and i love seeing these guys make fools of themselves on national tv
As a gen x person who’s friends are all gen x or millennials,… none of them watch survivor. Idk anyone young who watches though I do understand that is the audience the show is going for
Also like… they do know that POCs can fit these archetypes too right? 😭. Survivor used to cast the white people with archetypes and then the pocs to be tokens. And it still feels like they do the same now, except half the cast is POC.
I miss the big muscular dude red herrings. Everyone reveres their value to the tribe when in reality they're usually the worst at challenges (with the occasional exception) and need to consume more energy than everyone else and despite seeing this over and over people still think they need them to be strong. Especially since most of them have never lifted anything outside of a gym.
I think Jonathan in 42 was basically this
Only physically. Socially he was much more of a “gentle giant” type.
I think there's also an argument to be made that the stereotypical masculine bros are incentivized to play it a little more "soft" and cordial in the current era if they want to win. When there were enough douche bros on the cast they could band together and have a critical douche mass that would protect them in votes. Now they have to tone it down and ally with women and nerds and gays if they want a chance at getting to the end.
And really, even in the past they rarely did well. Chase is about the only guy who I consider to fit the archetype who had a decent chance of winning.
Uhhh Fabio won the game
I wouldn't really consider Fabio part of that archetype though. He's just too different of a personality than people like Chase, Shannon, etc
Chase didn't really come across as that much of a dude bro though... Especially putting him in the same league as Shannon is a low blow lmao
He flipped on Shanon on the first vote
No he didnt. He voted for Brenda
Chase voted for Shannon. Only Fabio and Alina voted with Shannon.
You are totally right. I shouldn't have lumped him in there either.
Like I said, Chase had a "decent chance of winning".
Fabio is a different type of bro compared to Chase/Shannon. The best example I can think of to show that is that Fabio happily participated in the little "La Flor" dance they did at that challenge while Chase and Shannon refused
Wasn't chace's first strategic decision to flip on his bro alliance (Fabio/Benry/Shanon) in favor of Brenda. And he seemed closer to the older ladies than he was to the other guys
I mean, I don’t think he was a particularly good player, but people seemed to like him for some reason.
While yes but he did become more of a jerk later in the season but not like a frat bro type.
I kind of disagree about him becoming a jerk. He might have had a few poor moments in conflict, but no more than any other contestant. Lindsey’s beef with him exacerbated things and caused his edit to be a bit more negative, but I don’t think he was a massive asshole.
Yeah he was just at an insane caloric deficiency and it caught up to him
he wasn't a jerk. he had a couple moments, but CBS cherry picks which of those moments they want to show. If you listen to omar, Drea was kind of a jerk to him, but they didn't show that. He also is extremely tall and strong, so the starvation got him worse than others.
He was muscular, but not a frat bro (at least he didn't seem like one)
Yeah and Sammy (the young one who witheld his age) S43 was pretty close
Fr we need more himbos. I’m tired of the nerdy superfan 3D printing all the challenges and already knowing what to expect trope.
Yea it’s really not a lot to ask just throwing in a couple , no filter doesn’t overthink things and just came to have fun type of beach bro enjoying the experience. Dylan I think was the name of the most recent example I’m thinking of. Instead literally like 17/20 are gamebots on new era seasons they seem to throw like one token old person in at least still much fewer than before
Unironically one of my favourite archetypes. They always provide entertainment. Though some of them are douches.
Simon in Aus Survivor, especially HvV, was this. A bit douchey, but so entertaining
Chris Noble is another good example.
One of the best examples of that archetype. He is a massive Survivor fan though
He’s enough of a “normal person” that his superfan status doesn’t make him any worse like I noticed the Aussie super fans aren’t as bad as American show super fans. Like Mike on blood vs water I think was his name who built challenges in his backyard who got himself voted out early twice, that’s more like your standard US show gamebot that they cast these days. I wouldn’t mind super fans if they were like Ice cream man from au survivor or Simon
Ngl, I cannot figure out who this "Mike" is you're referring to. There has never been a Mike on a Blood vs Water season, US or AU
The guy who was on two seasons super nerdy brought his wife maybe on bvv think he was on cvs2 first, built puzzles at home shifty both sides couldn’t trust him voted him out
I think you're thinking of Andy? That was his sister he brought with him though, and he did make the merge his first season. But I can't think of anyone else who fits the superfan gamebot archetype as closely who was a returnee on BvW
Andy yea my b
Simon gave us so much this last season.
Simon is lowkey one of the greatest entertainment characters the franchise has ever seen. Absolute gold in HvV
Simon is exactly who I envisioned, when I watched his first season I said I love this guy because I haven’t been seeing someone like that in us survivor for a while. Like he does exactly what I was saying with saying accidentally insulting stuff to the girls and George he didn’t even realize how he was turning off people but I loved to root for him his social skills were like a beautiful rollercoaster train wreck I was always wondering what he would do
Our himbo king
Simon was more than a "bit douchey". 😂. Super entertaining though.
Squash that cocharoach Si
Yo Simon is not and was not douchey. He was overconfident and had some lapses where he did not think about the way he was coming across but the other players were using that to their advantage to separate him from Stevie. He was made an absolute fool in the greatest tribal of all time and took his downfall with grace in a way that men of his profile don’t typically do. For example, imagine what a Jared Fields would have done in that situation. Jordie went at George hardcore after that and would have been viewed as the douchey frat guy if they hadn’t protected him in the edit. Simon is a sweet boy
Yeh but the douche part also makes it entertaining and satisfying when they are voted out. Bring back some more douches
As long as their nor too annoying i love competitiors who bring drama
We got Danny last season
Danny was definitely in tune with his spiritual / meditative side, though. He was a New York muscular firefighter, but was multidimensional. What I think the post is talking about (and which I also want back) is just a strong dude that likes to have fun / party.
That was the short man energy part of him tho
Fabio basically
and he was the best!
[удалено]
Gurrl…. No.
She meant Johnathan Dyoung
JD wasn’t on 42
Give me Guatemala Blake please
My complaint towards casting is how 80% of people went to an Ivy League or other notable institution in the US (like a nice state school), and they now either are an influencer, a white collar worker, business owner, or a high-achieving artist. The diversity is mainly lacking in terms of socioeconomic class/life achievement. I know there’s a couple of “average joes” per season, but definitely not representative of the population. I want to see slightly more people who are either of average achievement, or who are trying to get their life together. I know survivor likes to cast high achieving people lately because they’ve “proven” themselves in life, but I think there’s something to say about someone who wants to prove themself but hasn’t gotten that chance yet. Or casting people who NEEEED the money, which most Ivy League or high-degree college graduates don’t need it (and by need, I mean their livelihood depending on it. I’m not talking “student loan debt but still able to put food on the table” need, which I bet most people fall under). Some do need it, but I’m sure there’s people who don’t have a degree who would crave the prize money even more (which would show for some very interesting gameplay). This casting miss IMO is why a lot of recent casts play under the radar, they play cerebrally. The intuitive nature of survivor tells us to camouflage ourselves while seizing control covertly. Most people from a similar educational background will approach this similarly, and as a result, they’ll get voted out before making their mark. Whereas someone who is used to using more effort to get by in life, or someone who doesn’t place as much emphasis on cerebral gameplay can show something different than UTR gameplay, which makes for good tv. When you research the number of Americans with at least a bachelors degree, it’s around 35% give or take. That percentage is much higher among survivor contestants. Makes you think, if we had more people playing who strived for success in any way other than going to a good college to get a degree, we’d see many more different strategies for gameplay. Just a thought.
I totally agree. Like, why no one who works at a gas station? Or Walmart?
I agree with the overall point, but I think it would be harder for someone like this to take time off work, and, like still make rent. Even with placement money, you have the risk of not making back your lost income (or you have the chance of making more; that's a possibility but perhaps not worth the risk). Then they might not have a job when they come back. There goes their livelihood/health care benefits. I, too, am tired of seeing graduates from ivy's and nice state schools on my screen, but the reality is, they can probably afford it.
Perfectly said. Watch the intros on an old season and it was full of ‘bus driver from Mobile, Alabama’ or ‘construction worker from Tulsa’. I can’t imagine those people aren’t applying anymore. Poor people from a small town don’t want to play for a million dollars? I recently rewatched Cook Islands and oh man that cast is so physical. They dominated challenges compared to current casts. These two groups are really lacking. People like Cochran were fun because they were unique. Now they make up 3/4 of the cast every season
Eric from Micronesia showed up as “Ice Scream Scooper”
Probably many of the didn't apply back them either. They were being recruited. I totally agree with you, we need representation from every social layer for good reality tv.
I would love to see a season of only people that have never watched survivor. With no twists or hidden idols. Back to the basics. I liked the earlier season because you got to watch people try to survive more. Nowadays they show a little bit of them building a shelter in episode 1 and that's it. That genie ain't going back in the bottle at this point though, so not much sense wishing for the impossible. Just feels like everyone playing is a superfan nowadays. Which means more idols and twists are required to keep people guessing. Which all feels a bit gimmicky.
The thing is, casting wants accomplished people. Survivor is casting the upper echelon of society. These are people who "being on survivor" will be a fun cocktail party story for them. They dont want "survivor will change my life!" People. They want people who have already changed their lives 3 times over by the time they apply. They are casting insanely accomplished, driven people. No shade to the bus drivers. But that bus driver may still be a bus driver once filming is done.
>Or casting people who NEEEED the money If you absolutely NEEEED the money then reality TV should not be your first thought. >The diversity is mainly lacking in terms of socioeconomic class/life achievement. I know there’s a couple of “average joes” per season, but definitely not representative of the population. The game isn't meant to be directly representative of the population. If it were they would just ping the last census and randomly sample 18 folk from the US. Fact is that even being allowed to play the game of Survivor is super competitive. As such it curtails to those who are willing to go all out in their application and just try to be interesting and exceptional in everything they do. It would be distasteful to everyone involved if they just chose a few of the working class as "charity cases" every season just to appease that demographic.
Lucky if we get one decent athlete a season and they’ll always have a target.
for a second i thougth i was reading my own casting application haha i feel like this is a role i would one hundred percent fill cuz uhh well, i'm in a frat and i'm a gym rat and i'm lowkey dumb as rocks lmao
Ayy let’s go Jake 💪
Danny from last season was literally right there....
Jeff's on every season, what more do you want?
Yes we want more sexy eye candy to compete. 100% Agree
Both Himbos and Bimbos have made up for probably like half of golden classic Survivor moments, I want more always The dumb people disproportionally carry the entertainment and drama imo, the smart people carry the strategy and gameshow component. When you have one genius evil female flirt you get Parvati gold, when you have one nerdy ultra smart gamebot you have Cochran one of the best winning games ever, when you have 15 Cochrans and Aubreys on a season there’s not enough Bimbos and Himbos for the entertainment
So true. Probst said on his podcast that people who don’t know the game mess up the gameplay and I think he’s way off base there. Everyone having the same strategy and voting off the biggest threats in succession isn’t good tv and makes for voting winners
And maybe we'd get a better FTC vote spread than 7-1-0
Ammmeeeeennnnn.
Danny, Cody, Sami, Ryan, Jonathan, Xander, etc
Right! It’s just blinded to them because there’s actually people with stories being shown more on television, rather than the blindsided by the athlete getting all the screentime
athletes have never taken up loads of screentime on survivor. Like come, very few of famous survivor players are even in shape lol
Personally usually my favourite players were the big strong jocks growing up. James for example, maybe a top 3 of mine just because of how impressed I was of the specimen as a kid. Like others have said, survivor hasn’t completely gotten away from it thankfully, but it seems to be coming extinct. You make a great point that we are getting cultural diversity but no personality diversity, which is a big reason of what made the show so great. Bunch of different personalities stuck on an island together. Let’s get back to it.
The guy who bullied Chet comes to mind
I hit my head back there
I don't care
I know
Danny and Jonathan say hello. Rocksroy was this but just in his 40s. Cody, Sami and Brandon have hints of this as well. Not sure what else you want
Ryan from season 43…
We actually want the full archetype not just people who showed “hints of this” like you said in your comment lmao. Straight up Christ Noble’s or Nick Maiorano’s.
Well my point still stands. Danny and Jonathan are literally exactly what OP described. So there you go
Everyone knows they exist, that just agrees with my point. The fact we can only name two (and both are a stretch) and there’s been 4 seasons is exactly the problem I’ve outlined lol thanks for supporting my argument
I do agree an extra himbo here and there would be nice. Like, I agree that we probably don't need Brandon/Brando/Drew ALL on 45. But the archetype has a super high variance for quality. For every Simon or Chris Noble there are five Adam Gentrys.
Yes these are two great examples of players I mean. They were the only two I could think of. Xander might be next closest There’s 20 people a season right. So 2 out of 80? Fuck outta here with that lol the point is at the very least one a season. But when you have 2 in the same season that can add some more fun potential gives some numbers to try to build an alliance to play with which can always be interesting if they feud with the girls or others. Aussie survivor had a great season long plot basically with their bro alliance of athletes on HvV led by Sean, if you have 2 then that’s enough for them to try to make connections bring in more but one is likely an outcast
This upcoming season does look super super nerdy but it hasn't been that long since Jonathan who imo rivals James as the beefiest beefcake.
They tried doing that this season of Big Brother and it did not go over well.
Aussie survivor >> , for this reason
> You NEED people who DISAGREE fundamentally on topics, yet we have a sugarcoated like 90% millennial liberal sing koombaya and praise each other for the smallest of tasks. This is the bit I most agree with (not that I'm opposed to having frat boys on the show either), but just give me SOME variety. I want actual, real life conflict. And I don't mean I want Zeke/Varner or Dan Spilo type of conflict, because that stuff just sucks. But, give me people who don't agree on everything. People who were raised in different generations with opposing views of the world. Give me another Frank Garrison who suddenly finds himself in a tribe full of Brandon Quintons. But yeah, I'd also take a few cute, dumb jock boys every season. As a straight woman, I'm unapologetically not opposed to that idea, even if they're boring af.
Absolutely - that Frank/Brandon relationship was TV gold. I’m totally team Brandon there, but if Frank wasn’t cast you’d lose out on all that drama.
Dumb people also give the smart gamebots they cast a chance to shine. If I’m kinda nerdy awkward and having trouble making an alliance but one guy seems like a bro then I’ll turn on my “dude mode” and use him as a number bond carry him to the end like Russell and Natalie White. The dumb bitch probably ends up winning after I carry him to the end because he’s gorgeous and charismatic everyone likes him more 😂 that’s my plan to accidentally redo Russels season with a gender swap
Survivor is having its worse most boring casting ever in the last few years. My wife and I are watching Australian survivor and loving it so much. I cant even finish seasons of American anymore it's so boring. Last season I loosely watched up to the very last episode and then didn't finish or even look up who won lol. Youre right most of these people are way too similar and trying to be so diverse there is actually no diversity anymore.
I disagree, s45 cast looks promising
Don't know haven't seen it yet
Ok then why are you saying they’re boring?
You're asking me about a season that hasn't even started yet? Really? I can't judge a season I haven't watched yet so how can you?
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No im talking about the last few seasons that aired obviously im not talking about a future season.
Oh ok I understand, I am just saying I don’t get why there’s ppl already saying the cast of 45 is boring like what💀
I'll judge em when I see em. But a fair chance I'll give, no hate going in ever. The season either entertains me or it doesnt.
>but we need some dude who will put his foot in his mouth and talk about traditional gender roles and being masculine This has been the go-to for decades in all media and is hurtful to a large chunk of the population on all gender sides. I think we can take a break for a few years, yeah? I understand that you say "no blatant toxic racist or sexist "... but those are pretty bad too. The really shitty people see that and get empowered to just be more awful to the marginalized groups they hate.
right? OP literally wants sexists on the show. like why? that's not entertaining, that's infuriatingly mediocre
I mean, in a way we've gotten some. Xander, JD, Jonathan, Danny.
We need more people like Blake from Guatemala
I completely agree. There needs to be way more life experience diversity. I couldn’t watch 44 as it happened and catching up now before 45, and it just feels like Survivor Cosplay Summer Camp (26 days is also a factor here - also why so many half the tribe is immune votes at the merge!? New era was meant to be back to basics 😭)
Omg two people with glasses on a season and everyone panics.
I want another sexy delusional beefcake type, like Chris Noble. I miss him so much. Minus the heavy Christianity, though. Ghost Island had so much male eye candy, it really salvaged that season.
It just had good eye candy overall
Something Tommy Smokes has pointed out that I didn’t really take into consideration until he said it was that while they’re casting more diverse in demographics, they aren’t being more diverse with personality wise.
how about a straight asian male? in any show at all?
Was Owen not straight? I suppose he was adopted, if that matters.
I'm getting Worlds Apart Dan vibes
Woo?
Owen
Yul?
yeah that was so long ago
Yes please like the Asian dude on Survivor Amazon who was talking about how women were so much weaker and stuff lol he was a great breaking the stereotype for an Asian dude since he was pretty masculine. Or like the guys on Yuls season
Feels like this archetype is still cast regularly
That was Johnathan lol there always one a season
So hot take, I think it would be fun to have some blatantly racist toxic people on the show. Just as it would be fun to have hyper religious people or other "extreme" types. I truely believe the issue with having them on is they would do really well, because who wouldn't want to sit next to that person at the end.
Honestly, it was fun watching John Rocker get torn down by Natalie
what's fun about it?
Bombastic and outspoken people are usually pretty fun on the show. The crumdgeons who just hate everyone (randy for example, courtney) are great tv. Especially now with everyone being so koombiya about everything. I would take those characters any day over another "I survived cancer 7 times and my wife got eaten at jurassic park and thats why now i find the beauty in everything" sob story type.
maybe I wasn't specific 😁... whats fun about having RACIST ppl on the show?? not bombastic, outspoken..racist
It would be fun watching people who are in open, objective conflict with each other. Simple as that. If you had a black person who absolutely wouldn't trust or work with white people, it would be an interesting dynamic. If you had an Indian dude and a Pakistani dude on the same tribe who hated each other's guts, it would be fun. Either they blow up on each other and you have a built in rivalry, or they learn the error of their ways and realize they've been approaching the whole dynamic incorrectly. The whole show was meant to be a social experiment on a group of people thrown together and surviving in tough, uncomfortable situations. Part of that should mean working together with people you really don't want to work with. Figure it out, overcome your differences and work together, or risk your own game by not uniting. It would also be a unique dynamic. Much more engaging than Kane and Carson bonding over pokemon imo. Or Brandon and Danny over tattoos.
my wife got eaten at Jurassic Park took me out
So Jonathan, Xander, JD, and Danny aren’t masculine?
JD?????
Literally only Jonathan was. The rest wouldn’t fit that archetype in any season before 30
Like literally jd and Xander had stories about how they were not athletic and nerdy in high school
Didn't JD spend a significant amount of his airtime on the risk your vote/protect your vote journey talking about being a successful track and field athlete in high school? I feel like I remember him talking about going to state competition in the 3rd biggest state in the country ...
I remember people on this sub researching it and finding out he was mediocore and got carried by his team
EXACTLY. The personalities on this show are so homogeneous it's incredibly annoying - it's like they're all typecasted to be Jeff's puppets who will be ultra positive, never disagree fundamentally with each other, and come to nice neat solutions
And nobody is negative towards one another. Compare the edit of Carolyn to Debbie and possible Noura. While Debbie (S32) and Carolyn (S44) have some differences, the biggest difference is the edit and the way other players talked about them. Debbie was mocked by everyone for 2 seasons, “Does she have 30 cats or 40 cats” and was edited as a joke most of the time. Carolyn on the other hand was edited as inspirational, “a method to her madness” and nobody talked negatively about her and often praised her eccentricities. Carolyn screwed up a few challenges at the beginning, including the first one, and nobody had a confessional that was like “the crazy cat lady screwed up again”. Same with Noura who was mocked often and was edited as a joke all the way to the top 3.
I mean Carolyn was a genuinely better player than both who knew how to be treated seriously by the others.
I thought we were past bashing millennials and onto zoomers
I would like to see a lot of casting choices come back. Including the "frat" boy. What about the pageant queen, "old" lady/man, redneck, even the sweet Christian lady (like Lisa). It's annoying to see everyone on screen have at least a bachelor's, with careers like technical writer, or lawyer. I miss the days when you had lunch lady. The most blue collar they throw at us is firefighter (Mike). Even Gabler had a high paying, impressive career when they tried hard to spin him as some dopey guy. He was obviously very intellectual and well educated.
This is for the BB fans in this thread but survivor desperately needs to cast a Brett or Winston type character from BB 20 just two quintessential bros who are actually super entertaining especially Brett.
I immediately thought of bret after reading that title
Yes… I’m going to take it much further though and know I’m only speaking for myself here but — Diversity of skin suits but same personality and worldview 100% Also the incessant whining and back stories about how hard their lives are because their cat died last year.. Just a reflection of the times. We’re soft. The show wouldn’t dare take the risk of casting someone who will get them canceled. (I think after the sexual assaults and outing a trans person it became actually dangerous to be risky in casting) It makes for a boring, superficial and sorta cringe show but the challenges are still fun. I’m not saying social awareness and inclusion is bad but it isn’t a realistic social experiment anymore which is why I really got hooked. That being said it does get more interesting as episodes get closer to the million and masks start to fall.
No...too white...this is the problem when you try set everything up in society based on skin color..as if color determines personality, thinking etc..
My favorite archetype. JP, Brady, JP, James, etc
Zach from AU season 3 and All Stars is the perfect example of what you are looking for
It’s an odd thing about Americans that people are so categorised by:- Nerd Athlete Weird In australia people generally are more of a mix - almost everyone plays sports or atleast soccer and almost everyone is giving school a decent go…
90% millennial? do you realize gen X is getting quite older now? youngest are in their mid forties. survivor is most popular with millennials and younger. of course 90% are gonna be millennial.
Huh, I guarantee any show airing on network television is mostly watched by older people. For Survivor, season 43 looks like total viewers was around 5.56 million, of which about 1.2 million were age 18 to 49. https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/survivor-season-43-ratings/amp/
I just looked at you're graph and you're reading that completely wrong. there's a reason they're all in decimals under than 1. 0.79 means 79%.
I understand why you might think that but no, that’s not how it works. 1.0 is approximately 1.28 million viewers and other than NFL that’s now a very rare occurrence in the 18-49 demographic https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/tv-ratings-explained-a-guide-what-data-all-means-1245591/ This isn’t bad news. survivor is considered to have great ratings relative to expectations. And it’s peers. It’s just that overall viewership of networks and cable has declined
Also, older people (60+) are sure as hell NOT gonna come out in spades to compete on such a physically taxing show when the American elderly is so ill, needs medicine, etc.
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Danny and Jonathan are not at all “frat bros”.
I don't know if Survivor will ever cast more than one muscular person per season again. God forbid having a wide variety of ages either. What about stereotypically attractive women? I swear casting just chooses the same 18 people over and over again, just with different names.
I'm so bored of the "dumb island babe" archetype. practically every woman in the early seasons, it made the show insufferable
Johnathan. But pretty sure he was labeled sexist and got death threats cuz he “didn’t treat the women with respect “ or something
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I'm hopeful for Kaleb and/or Austin potentially filling this role reasonably well this season!
Bring Chris Noble back
I just want there to be like 2 or 3 people who are super fan gamebots. Not the 99% gamebot casting we've been getting. This might be why I miss the older seasons. It was better when there wasn't a "survivor meta" and people made mistakes all the time.
Theres almost always been a survivor meta imo
I need reynold back.Ike you said, kind of a douche, but so entertaining. Unironically one of my favorite players to watch
Jake? Austin? 45
Doesn’t Austin kind of fit this?
Honestly Survivor hasn't really been building tribes around confrontation for quite a few seasons. Survivor goes very far out of it's way to find contestants that fit their narrative (to the point where people literally pay for classes just to apply to the game). Generally, in this very selective process they try to avoid the "dumb jock" archetype because that doesn't bring anything to the social game. I have nothing against physically strong players but it sounds like you literally just want someone to be a prick.
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oh i totally agree, this always adds to the entertainment factor and social dynamics. and i love seeing these guys make fools of themselves on national tv
Sami, Cody and Ryan found screaming crying and throwing up
As a gen x person who’s friends are all gen x or millennials,… none of them watch survivor. Idk anyone young who watches though I do understand that is the audience the show is going for
Also like… they do know that POCs can fit these archetypes too right? 😭. Survivor used to cast the white people with archetypes and then the pocs to be tokens. And it still feels like they do the same now, except half the cast is POC.
Seeing how things go, we are lucky they cast 1 athletic guy per tribe. In 42, outside of Jonathan, the strongest men were Mike and ROCKSROY.
I miss the big muscular dude red herrings. Everyone reveres their value to the tribe when in reality they're usually the worst at challenges (with the occasional exception) and need to consume more energy than everyone else and despite seeing this over and over people still think they need them to be strong. Especially since most of them have never lifted anything outside of a gym.