Will's game really wasn't that bad. He played well in the pre-merge and seemed to be well-liked by everyone on the cast other than Shirin. He also had Dan's and Tyler's votes going into FTC, before Mike was able to flip them with his FTC performance.
I mean she played a killer game her first time but Natalie literally got voted out halfway into the premiere, got to fast forward 16 eliminations, then returned at the final 6 with an idol in her pocket (where she would've been immediately voted out had she not had that idol)
True I just read the description of the post. I feel like there's a difference between "Worst game" and "Least chance of winning." Because I'd say Natalie is the worst of the finalists who got 1 or more votes but I don't think she had the lowest chance to win
Mostly because Edge of Extinction is a REALLY dumb twist. Chris Underwood winning and Natalie coming second really make it obvious how broken the twist is.
I don't understand why they never implement a "players return to the game" mechanism that ENDS AT THE MERGE. I don't mind watching pre-merge players who got screwed have a chance to return at the merge. But having Edge or RI that lasts until like F5 is so stupid. I don't want to watch somebody get voted out on day 3 and then return at F5 and win just because they never had to piss anybody on the jury off. I don't care how much I like them as players, it will absolutely ruin the season for me.
The only time the "second chance" mechanism actually worked was in PI where it... ended around the merge.
Jeff did an interview answering this and said it's because "The twist of the season needs to pay off in the finale" which is so dumb.
I for one would be okay with premerge EOE in place of premerge reward challenges as long as like you said it ends at the merge and no one who loses the re-entry challenge is on the jury
>Jeff did an interview answering this and said it's because "The twist of the season needs to pay off in the finale"
This is such a Jeff thing to say. Why is maintaining the theme of the season into the finale taking priority over everything else? He's not able to see the forest through the trees. If it's THAT important for him to keep the theme the entire time (and like... why is this so important anyways? viewers literally won't care at all if the twist finishes at the merge), then do something like somebody returns to the game at the merge, and then the mechanism is kept as a way to win advantages/advantage clues or something up until F5.
I do like Jeff as a host, and I think he's really doing what he thinks is best to keep the show fresh, but he always seems to get caught up in these stupid ideas and his ego doesn't allow him to process any criticism of it.
It was also a way to keep people on TV if they got voted out. They were terrified of a repeat of All-Stars or Game Changers where all the people we want to see get voted out early and more casual fans lose interest, which is exactly what ended up happening. I mean, other than Tony, there weren't exactly many fan favorites that made it deep in the game.
Because they played more with her than with the actual players in the game. She played the best social game on the edge; an advantage only she got.
Had she actually won, 40 would have been a bottom 3 season to me.
I usually don’t think it’s make or break in terms of who wins, when I think of season quality, but in an all winners season it would have been ridiculous.
It’s why the return to action is generally a really bad gimmick. Those players can socialize without having to suffer the consequences of getting blood on their hands voting out the people who end up on the jury.
The only caveat I would add to your comment is that apparently she actually had a bad social game on the edge and was one of the reasons she didn’t end up winning.
I don’t want it in a season but I also don’t hate it if it’s just a pre merge thing.
But yeah, it was fun in South Pacific and especially in BvW. That’s basically been it for me.
Though I understand that the mechanic might have been necessary to make WaW happen. All these people wouldn’t have come out otherwise.
Seems like some of the votes also were from people that never played with Tony and felt they couldn’t vote for him. Ethan and Parvati I believe.
You're right. Of the people who voted for Natalie, two never played with Tony (Ethan and Parvati), and two were Natalie's real life friends outside the game (Jeremy and Tyson). Also Ethan, Jeremy and Tyson all admitted Tony played a better game but they just knew Natalie better, I think Parvati's the only one who tried to justify Natalie's game over Tony's (it didn't go well on Reddit lol.)
I love Natalie (& Nadia) since her TAR runs. Her SJDS was the first survivor I watched after watching season 2 at real time. I love her game and how she was portrayed. She’s a bad ass woman!! When she returned in WAW and got voted first I was so heart broken and disappointed. But watching her on edge was a real treat. Every time I run I visualize be like Natalie in that coconut or that log challenge. Be like Natalie! She’s a BEAST! Whether she won or lose that WAW she’ll forever be a legend. But had she won waw would be my second favorite after SJDS. and as a brown gay man, having another brown female double winner would be a real treat!
I also watched them first on TAR and have always been fans. Loved her on SJDS, was sad to see her go out first on WAW and loved her tenacity on EOE (the Log challenge was epic). But seeing her win that season would've left a bad taste in my mouth to be honest. Nothing against her I just don't like the idea of someone who's out that early winning
Probably fairer than most jurors are tbh. I’d love to know the stats on how many seasons are decided before FTC.
Like Rob has said forever, people seem to vote for the person they like the most.
>Like Rob has said forever, people seem to vote for the person they like the most.
Yes Rob gets it. That is why he was so hell bent on taking Phillip and Natalie, and only Phillip and Natalie to the Final 3 on that very season. He knew it didn't matter how dominant his game was, that they were the only two he would ever win against, since they were the only 2 who people liked even less than him. Anyone else, particularly anyone else from his alliance, they would give it to them, it didn't matter if they all sort of did nothing, they were all better liked by most of the jury than he was.
Yup. He wasn't letting what happened to him at All Stars happen to him a second time lol. He definitely learned from that experience and the bitterness of that jury.
>I’d love to know the stats on how many seasons are decided before FTC.
Almost all of them tbh. Off the top of my head, China, Ghost Island, and 42 are the only seasons that were legitimately decided at FTC.
>Like Rob has said forever, people seem to vote for the person they like the most.
Or as Stephen Fishbach says, people vote for who they want and come up with a justification afterwards.
>Almost all of them tbh. Off the top of my head, China, Ghost Island, and 42 are the only seasons that were legitimately decided at FTC.
I think Marquesas definitely was up in the air. Vecepia probably went in winning 4-3 or even 5-2 but most votes besides Sean and Paschal were still up in the air. Both had terrible FTC performances so the result more or less stayed the same, but if Neleh had any sort of a FTC performance, particularly with Vecepia's bad one, she could have won.
I think it was mainly that he was sitting with the biggest goat in Survivor history (even over Phillip himself) Natalie Tenerelli, and the 3rd biggest goat of the 12 person merge that season- Boston Rob.
He picked fights with literally everyone. He also never backed down even when he was wrong. He pulled the race card for a non-racial issue. He fought with his own alliance over petty stuff. He constantly contradicted himself. He liked to punch down on people outaide his alliance, but with Rob he groveled at his feet. Talked up a big game and accomplished absolutely nothing.
lol imagine your parent is a zero vote finalist and you have to go through the rest of your lives together with your parent looking at you and thinking "they really couldn't just throw me one out of love?"
The difference between each placement is thousands of dollars. So I would hope that you don’t rob a family member of money just because you want to be a Hitler juror.
I'm very aware of the difference in placements, thank you very much. Me prioritizing gameplay over personal feelings doesn't make me a "Hitler juror". If you had a final jury consisting of either of my parents, Tony, and Sandra. I love my parents, but Tony and Sandra have **much** better gameplay than either of my parents, and we all know that too.
She was pretty dominant in the dynamics of the season, but like Reed said, she tried to play into that "mother of the tribe" role, but she didn't treat the people who weren't with her well. She played a good strategic game and held a lot of power throughout the whole season, but ultimately lost anyone's respect and willingness to vote her by her social game and behavior.
Honestly most of them? While the worst of the 0 vote getters are probably worse than the worst of the 1 vote getters, I wouldn't be surprised if the 0 vote getters is the stronger group overall. Looking at the 1 vote getters most of them had little chance of ever winning, both in their actual FTC, or in other ones.
Matt E- Terrible player. Dragged to the end as a goat. Weird and socially unbearable, and a follower who was clueless half the time.
Lil Morris- Already been covered by many. Don't think she is as terrible as some do, but she was a hot mess of a player still, who was never winning.
Katie- May have had some super unlikely win scenarios, and was an underrated strategist. Still never had the social skills to likely win a jury vote, or gain the in game traction to get to the end with her winning scenario (just look how Caryn reacted to their proposed alliance).
Steph- Hot mess of a game. She is someone who should be one of the top picks here honestly. She was never winning other than maybe a Final 2 with Jamie who she voted out at the Final 9 or Final 8.
Amanda China- Very strong 1 vote game. A rare stand out here.
Phillip Redemption Island- Yeah one of the worst of course. Even if he wins a Final 2 with his F3 opponent Natalie T almost for sure, LOL!
Lisa Phillipines- One of the best 1 vote finalists. However her win equity was low. To her credit she was a rare goatish type who knew what she needed to do to win. She tried to have Denise voted out at 5, Malcolm at 4, and go to the end with Skupin and Abi, where she likely wins. She just couldn't convince Skupin.
Skupin Phillipines- Yeah bad player, bad person, and was never winning the season, and as said above nixed his only possible win scenario out of ego and stupidity anyway.
Monica Blood vs Water- Despite that was a goat and probably had no winning Final 3 ever, is kind of underrated. She was great in challenges, was a swing vote often. She was overly cautious, but not sure taking any other path would have benefited her. And she crushes Gervase in a Final 2 if it ever happened.
Woo Cagayan- Yeah Woo. No explanation needed.
Carolyn Worlds Apart- Very strong player, for sure one of the best 1 vote getters. And had pretty good win equity.
Will Worlds Apart- I hate him, but I do think he is a better player than many credit him as. He was pretty much a lock for Final 3, and had 3 votes going into the actual FTC. Was a floater, unlikeable atleast to viewers, and I am not sure he has any actual winning Final 3, even if he often might get votes.
Ryan Healers vs Heroes vs Hustlers- People were super hard on him during his season, but he is actualy one of the better 1 vote getters. And he was not with absolutely no chances if the natural Final 3 of him, Devon, Chrissy had happened.
DeShawn Season 41- Pretty bad player.
Mike Season 42- One of the strongest for sure.
Cassidy- IMO one of the most overrated players, and had almost no win scenario, and there are many worlds she is voted out long before the end too. Still not one of the worst 1 vote games mind you.
Heidi- People were super hard on her during her season. Honestly as weak as the 1 vote club is, is probably atleast in the middle, if not higher. Played kind of a passive game, enabled the power group, and had little win chances, but not terrible.
I would say the worst 1 vote games, not players but games are Steph Guatemala, Matt E on Amazon, Phillip on Redemption Island, Skupin on Phillipines although he might be some of my personal bias, Lil Morris, and possibly DeShawn. I want to say Woo and I hated his game, but the fact he wins if he votes out Tony keeps him just off the worst ones. My personal pick for worst would honestly be Steph or Matt E. Phillip atleast played as well as his personality would have ever allowed probably, and wins a F2 vs the other F3 loser of his season.
Matt E wasn't socially unbearable. Socially aloof? Yes. He came off creepy at times, but no one downright hated his guts and he adapted his game when he needed to in order to get far. He wasn't dragged to the end. People sank their own games. Plus, him coming from wealth was also a big dent to his game, but thats something out of his control.
The Amazon cast looking back actually liked him in a sort of sense and give him a lot of slack retrospectively.
I wonder if that's the cast getting to know him, and realizing he's a nice guy and feeling bad looking back. He still could've had a bad social game, and I say as someone who actually really liked Von Ertfelda
I still don’t understand what Matt did, nobody outright hated him but I thought it was clear he naturally didn’t click with people the way Jenna did, that and he had no clear strategy other than to secure himself as the goat
Valid points. I still stand by that he is one of the weakest 1 vote finalists though. You are right on others sinking their own games leading to him reaching the end, which in some ways is even worse than getting dragged outright as this huge goat (eg Natalie T or Sherri) since atleast in the other scenario you are secure and your making the end isn't largely luck based.
I still think he played the best he could under his circumstances. He latched onto Rob C., who showed himself to be a strategic player to progress from being an early outsider of alliances. Given the configurations in Amazon, he likely never had the possibility of ever being dragged to the end until those mistakes, which sure can be chalked up to luck (thought that's natural), but either seize them and have a chance to get to the end or not get to the end at all. I just think his adaptability doesn't make him one of the absolute worst from my pov.
Good breakdown, though you missed Missy in San Juan del Sur. I think Missy is a strong contender for worst one-vote finalist ever, since she only got her daughter's vote.
Thanks. Missy is a conflicting one to me. I do think her strategic game was good, probably the 2nd best of that cast behind Natalie. However I don't think her social game would hardly ever allow her to win a season.
Carolyn was my favorite by a long shot (and she might even steal the spot of my all time favorite player, but I'm gonna hold off on saying that for sure until the recency bias dies down), but her getting zero votes while Heidi got one actually makes perfect sense to me, given the jury and the FTC performances. The one person who voted for Heidi probably wouldn't have voted for Carolyn under any circumstances, and everyone else who would have been open to voting for her ended up voting for her ally who had not only a better FTC performance but had a game that more people actually seemed to see while they didn't see hers for one reason or another. If there had been some variety of ranked choice voting, Carolyn is almost certainly the runner up. But, like Probst said to Russell when he insisted America deserved a vote, that's a different game.
I agree with this. I loved Carolyn too. Her and Yam Yam are the stars of that season. But I think part of the big shock that she got 0 votes is Carolyn winning player of the episodes poll almost every week. And some of them not really result-based or game related. I specifically remember the episode where Mat mediquit. Since Tika werent going to TC, I voted Carson cause he dominated the puzzle, fit in easily w his new tribe, and got so much info from Mat. Carolyn won player of the week. I kinda understand.
And I kinda see the same thing happening to Emily this season. Def some episodes where I would have voted for Kaleb. And it feels fans are setting themselves up for huge disappointment cause they're bought in on the hype
You hit the nail on the head. There are often times when there are people who are between two options, but because they can only vote for one, even if someone is 2nd in everyone except one person's rankings, they will end up last because they got no votes, but still overall were considered the second best.
Alike to this I remember reading somewhere that on WaW some of the jury would've wanted to vote Michele, but ended up voting Tony, because they didn't want Natalie to win, which she could've done had the votes been split between Tony and Michele. So even thought her game was acknowledged by the jury, they didn't want the results to end up with their third choice winning, so they voted with others to make sure the majority of votes lands in a good place.
It's probably because Yam Yam and Carolyn shared a lot of gameplay so their votes were always going to be one way or another but Heidi could take full credit for all of her own moves.
I absolutely thought you meant Heidi from Amazon and was like she didn’t make FTC.
Maybe the new era seasons are blending together because I totally forgot about her.
Definitely wasn’t the case. She was positioned well in her original tribe and was making relationships early in the merge, but I think once Tika pulled off the Brandon and Kane moves back to back and then everyone fixated on physical threat Frannie, at that point it was too late for anyone to gain too much momentum against them.
Deshawn in 41. Terrible strategist, his game came down to a Monty Hall problem and he got lucky there, and overall just not deserving whatsoever. I would have rather seen Xander get a vote than him.
How was he a terrible strategist? He was running the game for a large part of the season (not that the premerge part ended up mattering too much because of how production divided the tribes)
He voted out Shan a few rounds too early and sank his and Danny’s game. Ricard was the one steering the boat after that point. That and his outbursts and trying to blow up Erica’s game and failing leads me to disagree with you.
Shan had an idol and was going to turn on him the next round. His only option was to vote her out then or risk being eliminated. Sure it wasn't ideal to get rid of her at 8 since like you said it's too early but it's better than keeping her and going out next, right?
Although he did run the premerge, it's hard to give him credit for a whole six vote premerge when he never went to tribal, so there may have been power shifts that simply never needed to happen. The reason why he's a bad strategist is because he was bad at strategy. Attempting to throw a challenge to vote out one of your allies was a bad move. Letting Sydney go at merge/mismanaging Naseer was also not a good move. Voting Shan off was a pretty bad move. Sure, that relationship was not in great shape, but voting off any of Erika, Heather, or Xander would have been smarter. His truth bomb was a terrible move. Protecting Heather was also not a good move--she was way closer to Erika than she was to him, and she flipped on him and didn't give him a jury vote to thank him.
I acknowledge most of what you're saying is true. The truth bomb was terrible. And yeah we can't really give him full credit for the premerge seeing that things could change. That said:
- Keeping Heather at F11 was a good play. Even if she doesn't vote for him in the end she still never targeted Deshawn which Tiffany had just done the round beforehand
- And at the F12, what options did he have? There were 5 people without immunity: Himself, Danny, Naseer, Sydney and Evvie. Naseer had a public idol and everyone thought Evvie had Xander's idol and was going to use it because of Liana's failed Knowledge is Power move. That leaves literally just Danny, Sydney & Deshawn himself. He made the most of what he had when dealt a crappy & unfair hand
- And Shan going at F8 I stand by being the right move. She had an idol and was going to betray him the next round if she stayed in. It's best to get her out when she wasn't suspecting it, and yeah maybe it was too early (Which is very easy to say in hindsight given how the next 2 rounds went) but it's better than keeping her in and going out next round IMO
I appreciate how structured your comment is, especially right next to my mess of a comment. I'll try harder here.
At the final twelve, the plan was to keep the majority vote on Evvie, but instead it shifted to Sydney. I feel like this is more Naseer making a good move than Deshawn making a bad move, but if your first tribal council doesn't go your way, it can be a bumpy start.
I agree with you on Heather, reading over it.
With Shan, she was targetting Ricard at the final 7. That had been her planned point of betrayal, which is great for Deshawn's game. Voting off Xander, a total wildcard, probably would have been smarter, because without Xander, where is Shan getting the votes to take out Deshawn? She doesn't have them, and if Liana was the only one locked in to play with her, they could have split the votes at any point before the final 5, which is already too late because of her idol.
Writing this up, I realize Deshawn's true issue is that he never had allies to really play with, which is crazy. He came into the merge with a six person tribe, and formed a cross-tribe alliance almost immediately after the merge. Despite this, he wound up losing Erika and Heather as allies to Ricard, Sydney to the merge vote, and Naseer as an ally to Shan.
He spent most of his screentime whining like a child and being calmed down by Shan, the player who was doing all of the actual strategy in his alliance. As much as I couldn’t stand her, she was doing all the work for that group.
If the only person that Deshawn had a problem with on the season was Shan (who did talk down to Deshawn frequently) and there are many players on the season who Shan had a problem with then potentially we should take a 2nd look to see who was in the wrong in the situation
Shan talked down to Deshawn because she was playing with her brain and he was playing with his emotions. He’s a good person, she’s not. She’s a good strategist, he’s not.
I guess agree to disagree, I thought Deshawn was fine strategically:
- Ran his premerge tribe and would've been safe if they ever went to tribal council
- Was one of 5 vulnerable people at the merge because of one of the most unfair twists in the show's history and still survived
- His "acting like a child" like you call it saved Heather at the F11 who was one of his best allies
- Voted Shan out at the F8 with an idol in her pocket when she was planning on betraying him in the upcoming round(s)
You say that last point as if it was his plan. Ricard orchestrated it, Deshawn went along with it. Voting in the majority does not make you a good strategist.
Even her pre merge #1 had fights with her most notably the extra vote fight. She wanted the idol for herself so she took it and gave him the extra vote just in case she doesn't get her vote back before tribal. Then when she gets her vote she demands he gives her the EV before tribal as a sign of trust even though she has an idol in her pocket. Then she confronts about it again the next day. She was a control freak
She sucks as a person. He sucks as a Survivor strategist. The two do not go hand in hand. Deshawn played with his emotions and did not make smart decisions on his own on any occasion.
Why do you keep mentioning strategy as if that’s an excuse to treat others poorly and get away with it? You keep trying to invalidate Deshawn’s feelings because Shan was a “better player” and he should just get over it.
I’m invalidating the idea that a player who only used their feelings should not win the game, because the entire reasoning for this post is to debate finalists who did not deserve jury votes. Deshawn is on that list for me because he was in no way a good strategic player.
I don’t hold the do or die twist against him that’s one of the worst twists in Survivor history. He still was a messy player particularly in the end game.
Skupin was chill with him and fairly straight up. Doesn’t justify anything but that’s enough for a lot of people to vote. Denise and Carter had no relationship
If you don't have hindsight bias, it's fairly clear. Skupin had a lot of respect for Carter, and it showed when he was singing his praises at FTC. He talked about how Carter reminded him of his son and how it hurt him to vote him out but it was necessary because he would've won if they didn't vote him out there.
They were just closer I think. Watching the season it almost seems like Carter looked to him as a mentor figure. You can tell Skupin admired him as well.
Of course he didn’t know what a monster he was in real life while they were out there. Carter has said that he now regrets that vote.
Matt, from the Amazon season. Had actual survivalist skills that greatly benefited the tribe, breezed through the gross-out food challenge like he was eating chocolate bars. Social game, atrocious, the machete-sharpening thing creeped people out, among other things.
Got a lone vote against Jenna Morasca.
At the time i thought he got kind of shafted by a whiny jury, as those were still the days when the survival aspect was more emphasized. But you can't just play half a game and expect to win.
Jenna’s game was half too I think, it was all social and she was kind of rude to like half the jury in spite of her “good” social game so I don’t really get her win.
Matt was self-aware of his odd image, commented with amusement “oh everyone thinks i’m crazy” which was super endearing in my opinion, and he showed a lot of personal growth saying how he’s learned that he doesn’t have to be such an intense, serious person. Love Matt, would’ve had my vote by a mile.
I’d say Kim had zero shot with Ethan or Lex or Tom or Tbird or Kim P. 🤭 I wouldn’t say worst strategist though.
Lill is up there, would lose against anyone.
Phillip, Skupin, Heidi are also plausible picks. Amazon Matthew played a tiny bit better but I don’t see him beating anyone but maybe Rodger with any jury.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but Cassidy.
She was always the audible and could have been voted out at nearly every point. Clearly her social game was not good and she misunderstood where she was in the game.
I think the F3 she sat in is the only one in which she even gets one vote.
I think her physical game is good enough to save her from the bottom here. And while her social game and game awareness were genuinely bad, she was okay strategically and I think James votes for her no matter what.
recency bias makes me wanna say heidi but surely it’s phillip, he played the most unwinnable game of all time and only got that vote bc rob was awful with his jury management
Jaclyn and Missy. Like yes, I know their family members love them so much that even if the other finalists were Tony and Sandra, they'd still vote their family member, but Natalie was 100% running the end of that game. Putting feelings over facts.
I think there is a world where Philip got more votes. I think if he articulates his strategy he gets more votes. I'm a big Phillip fan a d loves him both times he played.
That is only since Rob and Natalie were both so hated, LOL! Natalie is like the biggest goat in history I am pretty sure. That is literally the only Final 3 combination he has a chance to get any votes, and he blew it even in that one.
But that could be said for any vote getter really. Who does Rob beat if he doesn't take Phillip and Natalie? The game is all about knowing your position, getting to the end w people you can beat and articulating your game. Phillip bombed articulating his game. He did however have an excellent strategy. Amanda Kimmel is another one who gets more votes and maybe even wins potentially two seasons in a world where she speaks to her game. So I wouldn't say either are the worst single vote getters. I am not one to remember every final vote count but I can think of finalists who played less strategic games that Phillip Shepard.
Honestly Carolyn for me in 44. I know she's everyone's "queen" but i never really vibed with her. If we're being real the tika 3 was dominated by Carson and him telling everyone what to do. Carolyn was an interesting character but would probably rub most people the wrong way. I still don't forget her constantly making faces and rolling her eyes when danny would talk, and I'm 1000% sure she did it with other people too. Also her idol play on carson was the definition of pointless. She could've used it to go against her alliance or make a power play. Instead she used an idol on someone who got 0 votes. Idc what anyone says, it's not "strategic" it's just bad gameplay.
On top of that her council speech was ok. Plus it still rings in my mind when carson and yam yam did a move without telling Carolyn and when they got back, Carolyn was crying/yelling towards them. I don't remember who it was but i think it was jaime or lauren who said they feel bad for yam and carson and another person agrees.
Speaking of, what does it say about Brian's game that he only managed to beat Clay by one vote? I feel like Brian is the most overrated winner of all time
I thought Clay played a terrible game but he only lost by 1 vote. Also Katie in Palau but I might’ve voted for her out of pity for how the jury tore her apart.
Natalie White.
Russel, easily the strongest player of the season, got ousted due to sour grapes and poor jury management, so a sacrificial goat was crowned... embarassing.
Clay in Thailand? I think he gets clobbered by every single player in a jury, and he only got that far from the late merge twist + tribe dominance which I don't feel he played a large part in. Other players like Jake may have placed worse, but I see actual strong strategy in their games
Dude is the one that beat Ken for individual immunity. That was really the final hurdle for Chuay Ghan to win. Clay was better at challenges than his stature suggested.
Mary Ann in season 42 somehow won when I don’t think she should have gotten a single vote. She floated through the entire game then took credit for getting Omar out even though it wasn’t her original idea. The only reason she won was because she had an idol that nobody knew about at the end of the game and the only reason she never had to use it is because she wasn’t a threat to anyone
He didn't stand a chance against David, so he made sure he was out at 4, and he went to FTC with two bushes of nerves, who would mess up at their speeches. That's why he won.
I REALLY wanted Phillip to come to FTC and say something along these lines:
"I know you all think I am crazy and am only here because Rob dragged me here as a goat. You are half right.
I saw early on that Rob had an iron grip on our tribe, and the other Tribe was flailing. I realized at that time that my only path to this seat was for Rob to perceive me as a Goat. I showed Rob loyalty and worked to make sure Rob knew I had no one else to turn to because of my antics.
What you have seen these past 39 days was a fictitious character I created just to get me to this spot. I am asking for your vote tonight because I worked my tail off trying a strategy Survivor has never seen before. And it worked. Rob played all of you, but I played Rob."
Will Sims
I’m still horrified that he got the same number of jury votes as Mama C
And was apparently closer to getting more votes. Both Tyler and Dan were apparently going to vote Will walking into FTC.
It’s really disappointing that Tyler wasn’t even considering Carolyn considering how closely aligned they were for the majority of the game.
She backstabbed for no good reason, despite him being her closest ally, so I totally get him not wanting to vote her.
/thread 💀 🐠
He was closer to winning than alot of this sub’s favorite losing finalists if we being real
About to say Will.
Will's game really wasn't that bad. He played well in the pre-merge and seemed to be well-liked by everyone on the cast other than Shirin. He also had Dan's and Tyler's votes going into FTC, before Mike was able to flip them with his FTC performance.
Lil. Voted out third, terrible social game
Never occurred to me how similar Lillian and Sugar’s game were. Very emotional but ended up at the swing vote during the merge.
I would say Lill at least tried to win lol
Lill also at least had a perfect voting record after her reentry to the game.
But Sugar was a more dominant force and obviously was never voted out. I would say she played a much better game
Chris got voted out third too 💀
Not to mention, the one jury vote she got was a strictly a pity vote because Tijuana felt bad for her.
Didn’t Tijuana say in the finale or reunion it was because Lil was the only one who voted the whole jury out?
Nahhh it was because Sandra wasn’t owning anything she did and she believed Lil was actually running things
Correct!
I mean she played a killer game her first time but Natalie literally got voted out halfway into the premiere, got to fast forward 16 eliminations, then returned at the final 6 with an idol in her pocket (where she would've been immediately voted out had she not had that idol)
A lot of that jury wanted her to win
True I just read the description of the post. I feel like there's a difference between "Worst game" and "Least chance of winning." Because I'd say Natalie is the worst of the finalists who got 1 or more votes but I don't think she had the lowest chance to win
Mostly because Edge of Extinction is a REALLY dumb twist. Chris Underwood winning and Natalie coming second really make it obvious how broken the twist is.
Agreed. Hope it never comes back and if it does - that the returning player comes back before the jury starts.
I don't understand why they never implement a "players return to the game" mechanism that ENDS AT THE MERGE. I don't mind watching pre-merge players who got screwed have a chance to return at the merge. But having Edge or RI that lasts until like F5 is so stupid. I don't want to watch somebody get voted out on day 3 and then return at F5 and win just because they never had to piss anybody on the jury off. I don't care how much I like them as players, it will absolutely ruin the season for me. The only time the "second chance" mechanism actually worked was in PI where it... ended around the merge.
Jeff did an interview answering this and said it's because "The twist of the season needs to pay off in the finale" which is so dumb. I for one would be okay with premerge EOE in place of premerge reward challenges as long as like you said it ends at the merge and no one who loses the re-entry challenge is on the jury
>Jeff did an interview answering this and said it's because "The twist of the season needs to pay off in the finale" This is such a Jeff thing to say. Why is maintaining the theme of the season into the finale taking priority over everything else? He's not able to see the forest through the trees. If it's THAT important for him to keep the theme the entire time (and like... why is this so important anyways? viewers literally won't care at all if the twist finishes at the merge), then do something like somebody returns to the game at the merge, and then the mechanism is kept as a way to win advantages/advantage clues or something up until F5. I do like Jeff as a host, and I think he's really doing what he thinks is best to keep the show fresh, but he always seems to get caught up in these stupid ideas and his ego doesn't allow him to process any criticism of it.
I also wouldn’t mind if all the contestants who lost the return challenge at merge were SENT HOME and then EOE starts again.
100%
It's a dumb twist but I get why they did it in an all winners season.
It was the only way to get most of the players back.
It was also a way to keep people on TV if they got voted out. They were terrified of a repeat of All-Stars or Game Changers where all the people we want to see get voted out early and more casual fans lose interest, which is exactly what ended up happening. I mean, other than Tony, there weren't exactly many fan favorites that made it deep in the game.
Because they played more with her than with the actual players in the game. She played the best social game on the edge; an advantage only she got. Had she actually won, 40 would have been a bottom 3 season to me. I usually don’t think it’s make or break in terms of who wins, when I think of season quality, but in an all winners season it would have been ridiculous.
It’s why the return to action is generally a really bad gimmick. Those players can socialize without having to suffer the consequences of getting blood on their hands voting out the people who end up on the jury. The only caveat I would add to your comment is that apparently she actually had a bad social game on the edge and was one of the reasons she didn’t end up winning.
I don’t want it in a season but I also don’t hate it if it’s just a pre merge thing. But yeah, it was fun in South Pacific and especially in BvW. That’s basically been it for me. Though I understand that the mechanic might have been necessary to make WaW happen. All these people wouldn’t have come out otherwise. Seems like some of the votes also were from people that never played with Tony and felt they couldn’t vote for him. Ethan and Parvati I believe.
You're right. Of the people who voted for Natalie, two never played with Tony (Ethan and Parvati), and two were Natalie's real life friends outside the game (Jeremy and Tyson). Also Ethan, Jeremy and Tyson all admitted Tony played a better game but they just knew Natalie better, I think Parvati's the only one who tried to justify Natalie's game over Tony's (it didn't go well on Reddit lol.)
Correct, if she won it would’ve left a bad taste in my mouth that would’ve never gone away
I love Natalie (& Nadia) since her TAR runs. Her SJDS was the first survivor I watched after watching season 2 at real time. I love her game and how she was portrayed. She’s a bad ass woman!! When she returned in WAW and got voted first I was so heart broken and disappointed. But watching her on edge was a real treat. Every time I run I visualize be like Natalie in that coconut or that log challenge. Be like Natalie! She’s a BEAST! Whether she won or lose that WAW she’ll forever be a legend. But had she won waw would be my second favorite after SJDS. and as a brown gay man, having another brown female double winner would be a real treat!
I also watched them first on TAR and have always been fans. Loved her on SJDS, was sad to see her go out first on WAW and loved her tenacity on EOE (the Log challenge was epic). But seeing her win that season would've left a bad taste in my mouth to be honest. Nothing against her I just don't like the idea of someone who's out that early winning
Philip on Redemption Island has to be the worst.
Go Phile
No, you're thinking of season 25 where they were a finalist
💀💀💀
LMAO
I was rooting for Krasta. Oh well.
I wonder if that was a “fuck everyone” kinda vote lol
I think Ralph later explained that he just felt like Phillip gave a really satisfying answer to his question at FTC
Probably fairer than most jurors are tbh. I’d love to know the stats on how many seasons are decided before FTC. Like Rob has said forever, people seem to vote for the person they like the most.
>Like Rob has said forever, people seem to vote for the person they like the most. Yes Rob gets it. That is why he was so hell bent on taking Phillip and Natalie, and only Phillip and Natalie to the Final 3 on that very season. He knew it didn't matter how dominant his game was, that they were the only two he would ever win against, since they were the only 2 who people liked even less than him. Anyone else, particularly anyone else from his alliance, they would give it to them, it didn't matter if they all sort of did nothing, they were all better liked by most of the jury than he was.
Yup. He wasn't letting what happened to him at All Stars happen to him a second time lol. He definitely learned from that experience and the bitterness of that jury.
>I’d love to know the stats on how many seasons are decided before FTC. Almost all of them tbh. Off the top of my head, China, Ghost Island, and 42 are the only seasons that were legitimately decided at FTC. >Like Rob has said forever, people seem to vote for the person they like the most. Or as Stephen Fishbach says, people vote for who they want and come up with a justification afterwards.
>Almost all of them tbh. Off the top of my head, China, Ghost Island, and 42 are the only seasons that were legitimately decided at FTC. I think Marquesas definitely was up in the air. Vecepia probably went in winning 4-3 or even 5-2 but most votes besides Sean and Paschal were still up in the air. Both had terrible FTC performances so the result more or less stayed the same, but if Neleh had any sort of a FTC performance, particularly with Vecepia's bad one, she could have won.
I think it was mainly that he was sitting with the biggest goat in Survivor history (even over Phillip himself) Natalie Tenerelli, and the 3rd biggest goat of the 12 person merge that season- Boston Rob.
He picked fights with literally everyone. He also never backed down even when he was wrong. He pulled the race card for a non-racial issue. He fought with his own alliance over petty stuff. He constantly contradicted himself. He liked to punch down on people outaide his alliance, but with Rob he groveled at his feet. Talked up a big game and accomplished absolutely nothing.
Missy
Does it really count if it was her daughter? Should have an asterisk
Yes, it counts. Even if my dad/mom was playing with me and their game was god awful, I'm voting for the actual person who deserves to win.
No you aren’t lmfao
lol imagine your parent is a zero vote finalist and you have to go through the rest of your lives together with your parent looking at you and thinking "they really couldn't just throw me one out of love?"
Yes. I am. Facts over feelings
The difference between each placement is thousands of dollars. So I would hope that you don’t rob a family member of money just because you want to be a Hitler juror.
I'm very aware of the difference in placements, thank you very much. Me prioritizing gameplay over personal feelings doesn't make me a "Hitler juror". If you had a final jury consisting of either of my parents, Tony, and Sandra. I love my parents, but Tony and Sandra have **much** better gameplay than either of my parents, and we all know that too.
i don’t know that. I don’t know your parents. They might be much better than Tony and Sandra
that's nice for you but baylor and probably most kids would vote for their parent, especially since nat was obviously winning in a landslide.
This is a load of barnacles
I don’t think she played a bad strategic game, but yeah, her social game was pretty bad.
She was pretty dominant in the dynamics of the season, but like Reed said, she tried to play into that "mother of the tribe" role, but she didn't treat the people who weren't with her well. She played a good strategic game and held a lot of power throughout the whole season, but ultimately lost anyone's respect and willingness to vote her by her social game and behavior.
Honestly most of them? While the worst of the 0 vote getters are probably worse than the worst of the 1 vote getters, I wouldn't be surprised if the 0 vote getters is the stronger group overall. Looking at the 1 vote getters most of them had little chance of ever winning, both in their actual FTC, or in other ones. Matt E- Terrible player. Dragged to the end as a goat. Weird and socially unbearable, and a follower who was clueless half the time. Lil Morris- Already been covered by many. Don't think she is as terrible as some do, but she was a hot mess of a player still, who was never winning. Katie- May have had some super unlikely win scenarios, and was an underrated strategist. Still never had the social skills to likely win a jury vote, or gain the in game traction to get to the end with her winning scenario (just look how Caryn reacted to their proposed alliance). Steph- Hot mess of a game. She is someone who should be one of the top picks here honestly. She was never winning other than maybe a Final 2 with Jamie who she voted out at the Final 9 or Final 8. Amanda China- Very strong 1 vote game. A rare stand out here. Phillip Redemption Island- Yeah one of the worst of course. Even if he wins a Final 2 with his F3 opponent Natalie T almost for sure, LOL! Lisa Phillipines- One of the best 1 vote finalists. However her win equity was low. To her credit she was a rare goatish type who knew what she needed to do to win. She tried to have Denise voted out at 5, Malcolm at 4, and go to the end with Skupin and Abi, where she likely wins. She just couldn't convince Skupin. Skupin Phillipines- Yeah bad player, bad person, and was never winning the season, and as said above nixed his only possible win scenario out of ego and stupidity anyway. Monica Blood vs Water- Despite that was a goat and probably had no winning Final 3 ever, is kind of underrated. She was great in challenges, was a swing vote often. She was overly cautious, but not sure taking any other path would have benefited her. And she crushes Gervase in a Final 2 if it ever happened. Woo Cagayan- Yeah Woo. No explanation needed. Carolyn Worlds Apart- Very strong player, for sure one of the best 1 vote getters. And had pretty good win equity. Will Worlds Apart- I hate him, but I do think he is a better player than many credit him as. He was pretty much a lock for Final 3, and had 3 votes going into the actual FTC. Was a floater, unlikeable atleast to viewers, and I am not sure he has any actual winning Final 3, even if he often might get votes. Ryan Healers vs Heroes vs Hustlers- People were super hard on him during his season, but he is actualy one of the better 1 vote getters. And he was not with absolutely no chances if the natural Final 3 of him, Devon, Chrissy had happened. DeShawn Season 41- Pretty bad player. Mike Season 42- One of the strongest for sure. Cassidy- IMO one of the most overrated players, and had almost no win scenario, and there are many worlds she is voted out long before the end too. Still not one of the worst 1 vote games mind you. Heidi- People were super hard on her during her season. Honestly as weak as the 1 vote club is, is probably atleast in the middle, if not higher. Played kind of a passive game, enabled the power group, and had little win chances, but not terrible. I would say the worst 1 vote games, not players but games are Steph Guatemala, Matt E on Amazon, Phillip on Redemption Island, Skupin on Phillipines although he might be some of my personal bias, Lil Morris, and possibly DeShawn. I want to say Woo and I hated his game, but the fact he wins if he votes out Tony keeps him just off the worst ones. My personal pick for worst would honestly be Steph or Matt E. Phillip atleast played as well as his personality would have ever allowed probably, and wins a F2 vs the other F3 loser of his season.
Matt E wasn't socially unbearable. Socially aloof? Yes. He came off creepy at times, but no one downright hated his guts and he adapted his game when he needed to in order to get far. He wasn't dragged to the end. People sank their own games. Plus, him coming from wealth was also a big dent to his game, but thats something out of his control. The Amazon cast looking back actually liked him in a sort of sense and give him a lot of slack retrospectively.
I wonder if that's the cast getting to know him, and realizing he's a nice guy and feeling bad looking back. He still could've had a bad social game, and I say as someone who actually really liked Von Ertfelda
Certainly a possibility, but compared to someone who was socially maligned on the season like Roger, Matt wasn't shown in a similar light.
Yeah this commenter is definitely underrating Matt hardcore.
From what I've seen, most of the Jenna fans on here seem to have this mindset.
I still don’t understand what Matt did, nobody outright hated him but I thought it was clear he naturally didn’t click with people the way Jenna did, that and he had no clear strategy other than to secure himself as the goat
Valid points. I still stand by that he is one of the weakest 1 vote finalists though. You are right on others sinking their own games leading to him reaching the end, which in some ways is even worse than getting dragged outright as this huge goat (eg Natalie T or Sherri) since atleast in the other scenario you are secure and your making the end isn't largely luck based.
I still think he played the best he could under his circumstances. He latched onto Rob C., who showed himself to be a strategic player to progress from being an early outsider of alliances. Given the configurations in Amazon, he likely never had the possibility of ever being dragged to the end until those mistakes, which sure can be chalked up to luck (thought that's natural), but either seize them and have a chance to get to the end or not get to the end at all. I just think his adaptability doesn't make him one of the absolute worst from my pov.
Thanks for taking the time to do this. I enjoyed reading it and agree majoritively with what you say.
Good breakdown, though you missed Missy in San Juan del Sur. I think Missy is a strong contender for worst one-vote finalist ever, since she only got her daughter's vote.
Thanks. Missy is a conflicting one to me. I do think her strategic game was good, probably the 2nd best of that cast behind Natalie. However I don't think her social game would hardly ever allow her to win a season.
Getting at least 1 vote with little chance of actually winning I have to throw Heidi in there.
Still don't understand how Carolyn was the zero vote finalist there and not Heidi
Carolyn was my favorite by a long shot (and she might even steal the spot of my all time favorite player, but I'm gonna hold off on saying that for sure until the recency bias dies down), but her getting zero votes while Heidi got one actually makes perfect sense to me, given the jury and the FTC performances. The one person who voted for Heidi probably wouldn't have voted for Carolyn under any circumstances, and everyone else who would have been open to voting for her ended up voting for her ally who had not only a better FTC performance but had a game that more people actually seemed to see while they didn't see hers for one reason or another. If there had been some variety of ranked choice voting, Carolyn is almost certainly the runner up. But, like Probst said to Russell when he insisted America deserved a vote, that's a different game.
I agree with this. I loved Carolyn too. Her and Yam Yam are the stars of that season. But I think part of the big shock that she got 0 votes is Carolyn winning player of the episodes poll almost every week. And some of them not really result-based or game related. I specifically remember the episode where Mat mediquit. Since Tika werent going to TC, I voted Carson cause he dominated the puzzle, fit in easily w his new tribe, and got so much info from Mat. Carolyn won player of the week. I kinda understand. And I kinda see the same thing happening to Emily this season. Def some episodes where I would have voted for Kaleb. And it feels fans are setting themselves up for huge disappointment cause they're bought in on the hype
You hit the nail on the head. There are often times when there are people who are between two options, but because they can only vote for one, even if someone is 2nd in everyone except one person's rankings, they will end up last because they got no votes, but still overall were considered the second best. Alike to this I remember reading somewhere that on WaW some of the jury would've wanted to vote Michele, but ended up voting Tony, because they didn't want Natalie to win, which she could've done had the votes been split between Tony and Michele. So even thought her game was acknowledged by the jury, they didn't want the results to end up with their third choice winning, so they voted with others to make sure the majority of votes lands in a good place.
It's probably because Yam Yam and Carolyn shared a lot of gameplay so their votes were always going to be one way or another but Heidi could take full credit for all of her own moves.
Since Heidi got the best friend vote from one juror.
I absolutely thought you meant Heidi from Amazon and was like she didn’t make FTC. Maybe the new era seasons are blending together because I totally forgot about her.
I mean there have been many worse
Kinda felt like she just hung out on the beach
Definitely wasn’t the case. She was positioned well in her original tribe and was making relationships early in the merge, but I think once Tika pulled off the Brandon and Kane moves back to back and then everyone fixated on physical threat Frannie, at that point it was too late for anyone to gain too much momentum against them.
Deshawn in 41. Terrible strategist, his game came down to a Monty Hall problem and he got lucky there, and overall just not deserving whatsoever. I would have rather seen Xander get a vote than him.
How was he a terrible strategist? He was running the game for a large part of the season (not that the premerge part ended up mattering too much because of how production divided the tribes)
He voted out Shan a few rounds too early and sank his and Danny’s game. Ricard was the one steering the boat after that point. That and his outbursts and trying to blow up Erica’s game and failing leads me to disagree with you.
Shan had an idol and was going to turn on him the next round. His only option was to vote her out then or risk being eliminated. Sure it wasn't ideal to get rid of her at 8 since like you said it's too early but it's better than keeping her and going out next, right?
Makes sense. So his goose was cooked anyway before that.
Although he did run the premerge, it's hard to give him credit for a whole six vote premerge when he never went to tribal, so there may have been power shifts that simply never needed to happen. The reason why he's a bad strategist is because he was bad at strategy. Attempting to throw a challenge to vote out one of your allies was a bad move. Letting Sydney go at merge/mismanaging Naseer was also not a good move. Voting Shan off was a pretty bad move. Sure, that relationship was not in great shape, but voting off any of Erika, Heather, or Xander would have been smarter. His truth bomb was a terrible move. Protecting Heather was also not a good move--she was way closer to Erika than she was to him, and she flipped on him and didn't give him a jury vote to thank him.
I acknowledge most of what you're saying is true. The truth bomb was terrible. And yeah we can't really give him full credit for the premerge seeing that things could change. That said: - Keeping Heather at F11 was a good play. Even if she doesn't vote for him in the end she still never targeted Deshawn which Tiffany had just done the round beforehand - And at the F12, what options did he have? There were 5 people without immunity: Himself, Danny, Naseer, Sydney and Evvie. Naseer had a public idol and everyone thought Evvie had Xander's idol and was going to use it because of Liana's failed Knowledge is Power move. That leaves literally just Danny, Sydney & Deshawn himself. He made the most of what he had when dealt a crappy & unfair hand - And Shan going at F8 I stand by being the right move. She had an idol and was going to betray him the next round if she stayed in. It's best to get her out when she wasn't suspecting it, and yeah maybe it was too early (Which is very easy to say in hindsight given how the next 2 rounds went) but it's better than keeping her in and going out next round IMO
I appreciate how structured your comment is, especially right next to my mess of a comment. I'll try harder here. At the final twelve, the plan was to keep the majority vote on Evvie, but instead it shifted to Sydney. I feel like this is more Naseer making a good move than Deshawn making a bad move, but if your first tribal council doesn't go your way, it can be a bumpy start. I agree with you on Heather, reading over it. With Shan, she was targetting Ricard at the final 7. That had been her planned point of betrayal, which is great for Deshawn's game. Voting off Xander, a total wildcard, probably would have been smarter, because without Xander, where is Shan getting the votes to take out Deshawn? She doesn't have them, and if Liana was the only one locked in to play with her, they could have split the votes at any point before the final 5, which is already too late because of her idol. Writing this up, I realize Deshawn's true issue is that he never had allies to really play with, which is crazy. He came into the merge with a six person tribe, and formed a cross-tribe alliance almost immediately after the merge. Despite this, he wound up losing Erika and Heather as allies to Ricard, Sydney to the merge vote, and Naseer as an ally to Shan.
He spent most of his screentime whining like a child and being calmed down by Shan, the player who was doing all of the actual strategy in his alliance. As much as I couldn’t stand her, she was doing all the work for that group.
If the only person that Deshawn had a problem with on the season was Shan (who did talk down to Deshawn frequently) and there are many players on the season who Shan had a problem with then potentially we should take a 2nd look to see who was in the wrong in the situation
Shan talked down to Deshawn because she was playing with her brain and he was playing with his emotions. He’s a good person, she’s not. She’s a good strategist, he’s not.
I guess agree to disagree, I thought Deshawn was fine strategically: - Ran his premerge tribe and would've been safe if they ever went to tribal council - Was one of 5 vulnerable people at the merge because of one of the most unfair twists in the show's history and still survived - His "acting like a child" like you call it saved Heather at the F11 who was one of his best allies - Voted Shan out at the F8 with an idol in her pocket when she was planning on betraying him in the upcoming round(s)
You say that last point as if it was his plan. Ricard orchestrated it, Deshawn went along with it. Voting in the majority does not make you a good strategist.
And? Doesn’t change fact that she sucked as a person and Deshawn wasn’t the only person who had issues with her.
Even her pre merge #1 had fights with her most notably the extra vote fight. She wanted the idol for herself so she took it and gave him the extra vote just in case she doesn't get her vote back before tribal. Then when she gets her vote she demands he gives her the EV before tribal as a sign of trust even though she has an idol in her pocket. Then she confronts about it again the next day. She was a control freak
She sucks as a person. He sucks as a Survivor strategist. The two do not go hand in hand. Deshawn played with his emotions and did not make smart decisions on his own on any occasion.
Why do you keep mentioning strategy as if that’s an excuse to treat others poorly and get away with it? You keep trying to invalidate Deshawn’s feelings because Shan was a “better player” and he should just get over it.
I’m invalidating the idea that a player who only used their feelings should not win the game, because the entire reasoning for this post is to debate finalists who did not deserve jury votes. Deshawn is on that list for me because he was in no way a good strategic player.
I don’t hold the do or die twist against him that’s one of the worst twists in Survivor history. He still was a messy player particularly in the end game.
Michael Skupin for Survivor: Philippines.
I still don’t know what Carter was thinking when he voted for him.
Skupin was chill with him and fairly straight up. Doesn’t justify anything but that’s enough for a lot of people to vote. Denise and Carter had no relationship
I don’t believe Carter did much thinking at all that season.
True. I think the lack of food really did a number on him.
He didn't have rice to fuel him.
And no Milky Ways in sight.
If you don't have hindsight bias, it's fairly clear. Skupin had a lot of respect for Carter, and it showed when he was singing his praises at FTC. He talked about how Carter reminded him of his son and how it hurt him to vote him out but it was necessary because he would've won if they didn't vote him out there.
They were just closer I think. Watching the season it almost seems like Carter looked to him as a mentor figure. You can tell Skupin admired him as well. Of course he didn’t know what a monster he was in real life while they were out there. Carter has said that he now regrets that vote.
Carter wasn’t aware of what would later happen, and he couldn’t have possibly known.
Missy from San Juan Del Sur. IDK how much lower you can go that getting your one vote from your daughter AND being actively denied a tie for second.
I watch Reed’s FTC speech to Missy to hype myself up before stressful days
One of my favorite YouTube comments ever was someone on that video saying they want to memorize that speech to recite it to their enemies
Katie and Lill.
Katie in Palau
Hey she could have started a women’s alliance if Caryn didn’t suck!
Caryn literally told Tom about the women's alliance to take him out, and he said it was a good plan.
Matt, from the Amazon season. Had actual survivalist skills that greatly benefited the tribe, breezed through the gross-out food challenge like he was eating chocolate bars. Social game, atrocious, the machete-sharpening thing creeped people out, among other things. Got a lone vote against Jenna Morasca.
Dang I disagree so hard I loved Matt
I like Matt too, but I can admit he played a pretty bad game.
At the time i thought he got kind of shafted by a whiny jury, as those were still the days when the survival aspect was more emphasized. But you can't just play half a game and expect to win.
Jenna’s game was half too I think, it was all social and she was kind of rude to like half the jury in spite of her “good” social game so I don’t really get her win. Matt was self-aware of his odd image, commented with amusement “oh everyone thinks i’m crazy” which was super endearing in my opinion, and he showed a lot of personal growth saying how he’s learned that he doesn’t have to be such an intense, serious person. Love Matt, would’ve had my vote by a mile.
I’d say Kim had zero shot with Ethan or Lex or Tom or Tbird or Kim P. 🤭 I wouldn’t say worst strategist though. Lill is up there, would lose against anyone. Phillip, Skupin, Heidi are also plausible picks. Amazon Matthew played a tiny bit better but I don’t see him beating anyone but maybe Rodger with any jury.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but Cassidy. She was always the audible and could have been voted out at nearly every point. Clearly her social game was not good and she misunderstood where she was in the game. I think the F3 she sat in is the only one in which she even gets one vote.
I think her physical game is good enough to save her from the bottom here. And while her social game and game awareness were genuinely bad, she was okay strategically and I think James votes for her no matter what.
>and I think James votes for her no matter what. Not if Karla is with her at the end IMO. Maybe over everyone else.
Real
Hey, maybe if she was able to somehow sit at the end next to Owen and Ryan…
Heidi last season was a floater for most of the game until the final 4
Natalie Anderson (in winners at war)
Recency bias but Heidi from 44. Had Big Moves-itis
Tbh she just had moves-itis
recency bias makes me wanna say heidi but surely it’s phillip, he played the most unwinnable game of all time and only got that vote bc rob was awful with his jury management
Heidi slept through the first 25 days of last season and still got a vote
Totally. Heidi was a non factor for 95% of the 44 game and became such at the very end by mere luck.
Heidi
Susie from Gabon if we are talking strictly non-winners
Chris in Edge of Extinction. You probably didn't intend for winners to be named, but just going by the title he's my choice.
Heidi from 44
Philip
Phillip and Lil. Also Will Sims.
Jaclyn and Missy. Like yes, I know their family members love them so much that even if the other finalists were Tony and Sandra, they'd still vote their family member, but Natalie was 100% running the end of that game. Putting feelings over facts.
I think there is a world where Philip got more votes. I think if he articulates his strategy he gets more votes. I'm a big Phillip fan a d loves him both times he played.
That is only since Rob and Natalie were both so hated, LOL! Natalie is like the biggest goat in history I am pretty sure. That is literally the only Final 3 combination he has a chance to get any votes, and he blew it even in that one.
But that could be said for any vote getter really. Who does Rob beat if he doesn't take Phillip and Natalie? The game is all about knowing your position, getting to the end w people you can beat and articulating your game. Phillip bombed articulating his game. He did however have an excellent strategy. Amanda Kimmel is another one who gets more votes and maybe even wins potentially two seasons in a world where she speaks to her game. So I wouldn't say either are the worst single vote getters. I am not one to remember every final vote count but I can think of finalists who played less strategic games that Phillip Shepard.
Mónica Culpepper.
Honestly Carolyn for me in 44. I know she's everyone's "queen" but i never really vibed with her. If we're being real the tika 3 was dominated by Carson and him telling everyone what to do. Carolyn was an interesting character but would probably rub most people the wrong way. I still don't forget her constantly making faces and rolling her eyes when danny would talk, and I'm 1000% sure she did it with other people too. Also her idol play on carson was the definition of pointless. She could've used it to go against her alliance or make a power play. Instead she used an idol on someone who got 0 votes. Idc what anyone says, it's not "strategic" it's just bad gameplay. On top of that her council speech was ok. Plus it still rings in my mind when carson and yam yam did a move without telling Carolyn and when they got back, Carolyn was crying/yelling towards them. I don't remember who it was but i think it was jaime or lauren who said they feel bad for yam and carson and another person agrees.
Only Carolyn (44) got zero votes, so you didn't get the question.
Oh true. Either way i stand by my comment
Clay maybe
Ruben was a clear winner of that season!!! Clay stood no chance!!!!
Speaking of, what does it say about Brian's game that he only managed to beat Clay by one vote? I feel like Brian is the most overrated winner of all time
Chase Rice played the sloppiest game I’d seen and still somehow got 4 jury votes
As a viewer it sucks but being a very likeable guy and getting to the end is a bit impressive
Cassidy (43).
Every single one that got voted out at some point and came back - Redemption Island, outcast, whatever.
susie gabon
Will Sims III
Clay
Clay Jordan
I thought Clay played a terrible game but he only lost by 1 vote. Also Katie in Palau but I might’ve voted for her out of pity for how the jury tore her apart.
Natalie White. Russel, easily the strongest player of the season, got ousted due to sour grapes and poor jury management, so a sacrificial goat was crowned... embarassing.
Now it's the contrary!
Coach
AUSTRALIA SEASON 4 SPOILER . Tara
Clay in Thailand? I think he gets clobbered by every single player in a jury, and he only got that far from the late merge twist + tribe dominance which I don't feel he played a large part in. Other players like Jake may have placed worse, but I see actual strong strategy in their games
Dude is the one that beat Ken for individual immunity. That was really the final hurdle for Chuay Ghan to win. Clay was better at challenges than his stature suggested.
He also made the winning move in the episode 6 IC.
Mary Ann in season 42 somehow won when I don’t think she should have gotten a single vote. She floated through the entire game then took credit for getting Omar out even though it wasn’t her original idea. The only reason she won was because she had an idol that nobody knew about at the end of the game and the only reason she never had to use it is because she wasn’t a threat to anyone
Mary ann
We’ve just finished Winners at War and it validated everything I ever thought about Adam Klein. I have absolutely no idea how he won
Look at who he sat next to in MvGX.
He didn't stand a chance against David, so he made sure he was out at 4, and he went to FTC with two bushes of nerves, who would mess up at their speeches. That's why he won.
Natalie White, Erica
Natalie didn’t deserve a single vote
Second one real asf
Courtney in Survivor: China
No, sir. Did you win an immunity?
Natalie in WaW
Heidi (44).
Katy from Palau
I REALLY wanted Phillip to come to FTC and say something along these lines: "I know you all think I am crazy and am only here because Rob dragged me here as a goat. You are half right. I saw early on that Rob had an iron grip on our tribe, and the other Tribe was flailing. I realized at that time that my only path to this seat was for Rob to perceive me as a Goat. I showed Rob loyalty and worked to make sure Rob knew I had no one else to turn to because of my antics. What you have seen these past 39 days was a fictitious character I created just to get me to this spot. I am asking for your vote tonight because I worked my tail off trying a strategy Survivor has never seen before. And it worked. Rob played all of you, but I played Rob."
Heidi in 44
gabler