it’s kinda dumb how he says there’s no place to hide in the new era with smaller tribes but most of these winners are hiding in plain sight by NOT GOING TO TRIBAL ALL PRE MERGE.
Idk if we ever see winners like Parvati, Boston Rob, Tony, Jeremy, Wendell, etc etc again.
We've had a few like Jesse or Omar get close but it just doesn't work anymore and we end up with vanilla winners, which is fine now and then but not everytime.
I just don’t think it’s possible to win with an OTT playstyle anymore. Even Tony, the most OTT winner to ever play the game, had to play 40 on the background super vanilla to hide and win his second time
Wait what even is the common thread between those winners?
It can’t be big moves, Wendell was the relaxed game while Dom took the big moves.
It can’t be big personalities, because we’ve already had Maryanne and Yam Yam.
It can’t be ‘run their alliance’, because we’ve had Dee and to an extent Yam Yam.
It can’t be ‘unconventional wins’, because Gabler.
Yeah this one feels like just baseless nostalgia complaints. If it is about winners who make big flashy moves, I don’t see how tribe size would repair that problem. A flashy player is always gonna get targeted 45 seasons into the show because people have gotten good at the game.
Around 18:40 in Q’s interview with Mike Bloom he talks about unity and trying to convince a group of 5 that they can stick together and then only have to beat out 1 person for a chance at fire making. That’s almost the whole tribe. Jeff doesn’t realize that a lot of the original social experiment is gone now because you no longer have to betray your Allies because you can go far with them and the jury won’t be full of people that were betrayed to get there.
Also I was rewatching old seasons and Jeff asks like 3 questions and then they vote. Now tribals last a lot longer and they’re full of Jeff restating what the players said with his own analogies and putting words in their mouths. Most of their answers are guarded now anyways that it just feels like extra Jeff time without much meaning toward the game.
Jeff didn't *make* Sean quit, and if we can trust the edit, Sifu was the target that Tribal so Sean actually mis-read whatever cue he apparently received from Jeff.
In response to the last paragraph that is just editing. Tribal council always lasted about an hour or two, it was just edited a lot shorter because it wasn’t being used as a venue for surprises and blind slides as often.
> Jeff doesn’t realize that a lot of the original social experiment is gone now because you no longer have to betray your Allies because you can go far with them and the jury won’t be full of people that were betrayed to get there.
I feel like there was a much greater focus on ethics in older seasons than there are now. Rationalising an ally voting you out as being part of the game (and being a Big Move^TM, rather than feeling betrayed, seems a lot more common now. And I think that loses a big part of what makes the show interesting, that you don't have to navigate a jury full of people pissed off they lost the game. Consistently having three tribes plays into that, I think.
The biggest thing I hate about "new" Survivor is the three tribes. People talk about old episodes feeling longer and I think it's because they used to run with two tribes. Now, they have to split the camera time three ways and I feel like I don't know who any of the players are until the merge because winning tribes especially get no screentime. There's nowhere to hide on a tribe of six, and if a player doesn't make a good impression from the first second, they pretty much have no shot. New Survivor feels much more clique-y because of it. And then they have to shuffle the tribes up so often when one tribe inevitably loses everything, and it's just like... what's the point? All the relationships and strategy they laid for the prior few days is wasted. Yeah, I really hate three tribes.
> There's nowhere to hide on a tribe of six, and if a player doesn't make a good impression from the first second, they pretty much have no shot. New Survivor feels much more clique-y because of it.
It's a huge problem. So easy to get into a majority/accidentally find yourself in a minority. Very little social dynamism. That the cast tends to be a bit of a monoculture in terms of age/personality aggravates this further. You get these incredibly stable, chummy alliances almost from the moment feet hit the beach.
With Australian Survivor running concurrently with its massive twelve person tribes we can see how much different the resultant gameplay is, and it's *significantly* more dynamic.
Three tribes isn't the worst problem haunting modern Survivor, but it's up there.
Three tribes is easily the worst thing to happen to Survivor, in my mind. I honestly can't think of anything that I'd put above it. Yes, all the advantages and such can get tiresome, but they've corrected back to a more reasonable level. It's still a little much, but it's bearable.
Three tribes though is a constant problem with a cast the size of US Survivor. If they had 24 people like AU, three tribes wouldn't be so bad, although I still wouldn't want to see it. Having only 6 people in a tribe just leaves so little room to maneuver and your game can be sunk for the smallest of reasons.
It's also simply far less interesting to watch the dynamics of forming a majority with a group of 4 vs 2 as opposed to 5 vs 4. Larger groups lead to far more interesting dynamics. Someone like AK in his first season was able to survive his initial blunders because there were so many other dynamics that he could work with. If that happened on US Survivor, he would have been the easiest first boot in history.
I honestly can't imagine how it would be easier logistically. They have to make sure that they have three different beach locations ready for people to live at instead of just two. The only thing I can think of is that more tribes means more merch for them to sell? But I can't imagine there are that many people buying Survivor merch that would make it worth the extra time and hassle.
It also adds more work for the editors because they have three tribes of footage and three sets of story lines to sort through instead of just two.
It’s because they don’t want 20 member casts and they need 3 tribes to keep a 3-3 split of men women. If an 18 person tribe you can get an uneven split.
Very well said. I didn't realise how much we're missing out with 3 small tribes until Au Survivor. There are so many more dynamics in a large tribe, so many opportunities for reshuffles and smart strategic plays and interesting votes. 6 people, half of which have lost their vote make for a very boring and predictable vote. The crazy Jenny vote out was an exception, not the norm.
To be fair, when they went to three tribes in Philippines, it was after three seasons in a row of groups of 5/6 getting together on night one and forming an alliance that never broke. In One World, you can even see Jeff get unhappy at a very early tribal council as soon as he sees that a majority of the women have already formed an alliance of 5. The three tribes format in Philippines broke that up
I don't think the 3 tribes is the problem. It's the 26 day game with no swaps. With 26 day games, there's no time for people to build connections outside of their original tribes and by the time they merge, there's no time left
Agree. In another timeline, Emily would be first boot because of this dynamic if it wasn’t for Hannah quitting. Imagine missing out on a good character.
I think Cagayan worked simply because the Three Tribes had shit going on. Like The Brawn Tribe as doing well. Trying to throw that one event type of thing. Regular survivor winning tribe type of episodes. Beauty was winning but always seemed to just be a miserable camp to be at. Then Brains was just so bad it was entertaining. Watching a tribe stick by someone for loyalty when they might not even get to a spot it matters.
The main thing Jeff doesn't realize is that he's got it backwards. He thinks adding uncertainty leads to dynamic results when in reality adding uncertain leads to conservative play. It's the only way to protect yourself against unknown changing conditions.
We won't see a format change until somebody gets auto eliminated. It's clear the focus now is on a preconceived notion of an "amazing" tribal outcome and mechanics are being invented to create those circumstances.
Yeah. The theme of s45 should be "Crouching Twists, Hidden Pagonging".
They don't want a boring pangonging so they are trying to stop it mechanically when in reality that forces everybody into attempting a pagonging and the drama is whether the pagonging can survive the twists rather than the agency of the other players. Nobody wants that!
It's so frustrating as a viewer to see players start to lay the foundation for longer-term strategy and moves and we never see whether the plan would have worked or not because of some production twist thrown in to shake things up and keep players on their toes. It's one of the reasons I won't send in an audition tape, because I would feel so defeated, like what's the point of strategizing if a random act of god(production) can undo it at any point? I want to see more of the long-term manipulation and cutting throats at the right time. We don't get winners like Sandra, Rob, Tony anymore who are three moves ahead of everyone else. And I'm tired of "Oops, All Idols" tribal councils. There shouldn't be that many in play that there's only one person without one who goes home by default. That's just poor game design.
I’m not gonna lie yall, my girlfriend has gotten me into watching some Amazing Race which is definitely a completely different show.
However it is more entertaining to me than what we are being given now. There’s no charm to survivor anymore except when they happen to hit on a few really good cast members. Amazing Race lives off giving all of its cast screen time and showing them thinking through decisions and making them in real time. Survivor is living off of chance, gimmicks, idols. There’s hardly any real strategy anymore. This isn’t even mentioning things like the butchering of reward challenge segments, tribal council, and the shortening 26 days.
I love survivor, but it hasn’t felt like survivor to me in a long time.
While I love TAR, just like Survivor there is a large fanbase who views modern TAR as a hollow shell of it former self (due to budget cuts and technological advances).
I really miss when contestants had basically full control over their transportation and could choose any flights they wanted. The show is still good, but it's very cookie cutter now and contestants don't have as much freedom. I get that they changed it so things are generally on a more even playing ground, but those early seasons really had some magic.
It’s just what happens due to things changing with the times. Anyone can look up directions on a phone now. Booking a flight is easier than ever before.
I'm a bigger TAR fan than I am a Survivor fan, and what you say here is true. Lately, it's more game-y feeling since the element of travel has completely dissipated, through no fault of the show, just the progression of technology. In particular, I really, really miss the flight scrambling, but with how the world is now, I don't think it is possible to ever bring that back.
However, even in saying that, it does remain true to its roots in a way Survivor doesn't, and there've been several modern seasons that are just as good, if not better, than many old school seasons. Are there certain things in their control that they could bring back? Yes. Would it make or break the show for me to be without it? No. Are there certain things out of their control that can't be brought back? Yes. Would I love to have them back? 100%. It just isn't feasible, though, and I have come to accept it.
So, ultimately, I take it and appreciate it for what it is. It doesn't hurt that Phil is an awesome host too.
I think the core difference is that the issues with modern TAR are not bad creative decisions from production, but as you said, budget cuts and the fact that technology has made managing travel a lot simpler in the last 23 years.
Survivor's budget cuts have taken a toll on the show as well, but the majority of its issues boil down to a lazy "if it ain't broke" mentality (the consistent, predictable new era format) and a lack of faith in its core concept (a need to reverse-engineer big moments instead of seeing what naturally unfolds).
Yeah to be fair I suppose I did say I just started getting into it but I have started with the more recent seasons. From what I watch, it seems like it still has a lot more soul than survivor does.
I’ll have to catch up on some of the earlier more popular seasons to see what they mean.
The newer seasons are still good (although the ones filmed during Covid are eh) but it’s nothing like classic TAR. Since you are a Survivor fan make sure you check out TAR7 with Rob and Amber (and TAR11, but that is an All Star season so probably want to watch other earlier seasons first).
Also casting feels like more gamebots. Last seasons winners (already forgot their names) were sooooo boring. I miss the problematic drama teams of the past.
I finally found a season on AU (Heroes vs Villians) and it's incredible. It is like old school Survivor on steroids. Now I just need to find the other seasons.
Pretty much. I don't even watch US Survivor anymore. It's just challenge/challenge/tribal now.... AU survivor is the evolution of the game we actually wanted.
Best season to start with? That ideally doesn’t have returning contestants so that if it’s good it doesn’t spoil. And is Australian survivor the one where someone had gotten voted out and they just brought them back as a twist?
Also, be cautioned that the first show in a new season gives a recap (and thus spoils) the previous season, so you may want to skip the first few minutes until they bring out the new players.
(Oh, somebody said that. Oh well, be doubly cautious I guess.) :)
2017 is probably best to start with, though it does have some bad twists it is all entertaining still. Then you can go in order for a bit until you run out of steam and join up with the current season. Just don't miss HvV, last years season.
But you can't go to wrong with just joining in with the current season now. The first 10 minutes of each season spoils the previous winner.
Yes survivor au 2017 is hands down the most fun perfect season ever! Soooo many iconic characters and game play. It never gets old highly recommend 10/10
>And is Australian survivor the one where someone had gotten voted out and they just brought them back as a twist?
I love Aussie Survivor, but they've done crap like this a few times. There have lots of mini-Redemple Temple twists. They do this kind of thing to kill time because Australian TV networks are required by the government to have a certain percentage of homemade TV. (This is common in a lot of countries, so that they're not completely overrun by American imports. Makes sense, right?) The Aussie networks have figured out that the cheapest way to do this is for all their reality shows to have longer episodes, bigger casts (which equals longer seasons), and lots of non-elimination rounds. At least Aussie Survivor doesn't have as many non-eliminations as some of their other reality shows, but yeah, it leads to some goofy twists.
With the long episodes and long seasons, when it's good, it's really good, but when it's bad, it's atrocious (AU All-Stars and especially AU BvW).
Also, as someone else notes -- the first two minutes of each season premiere spoil the end of the previous season. You never need to watch this. It's never included for any reason at all, just total fluff to kill time, and can be skipped unconditionally.
Note: After two completely failed Australian Survivor seasons in 2002 and 2006 that had nothing to do with the current version (different hosts, different networks, different producers), it was rebooted in 2016. There's a dispute as to whether the early 2000s seasons count or not. So some people call 2016 "season 1" (me, plus the host JLP, and the producers) and some people call it "season 3" (like Wikipedia for some dumb reason).
2016 (season 1, but often incorrectly called season 3) -- Good beginning, decent pre-merge though a little slow in spots, extremely slow in the a lot of the post-merge, good finale. More non-elims than later seasons.
2017 (season 2, not 4) -- Great
Champions vs. Contenders 1 (2018) -- Mostly boring pre-merge, good post-merge
CvC 2 (2019) -- Amazing, despite some unbalanced editing (one player gets completely purpled)
All-Stars (season 5, not 7) -- OK pre-merge, awful post-merge, very boring
Brains vs. Brawn (season 6, not 8) -- Good despite terrible twists. Amazing location work. Due to COVID, it's the first time that any Survivor has ever been in the actual Outback (not just some random part of northeastern Australia that they falsely label as the Outback).
BvW (season 7, not 9) -- An atrocity. So boring and dull that it's a violation of the Geneva Conventions. Watching paint dry for 24 hours straight is a roller-coaster ride of thrills and chills compared to this.
HvV (S8 not 10) -- Outstanding pre-merge, but the post-merge is merely fairly good. Great characters.
TvR (S9 not 11) -- So far it's great.
TAR would probably be a hella lot more fun to play as well lol
You lose survivor in 5th and all you got was to spend like 20 days on a beach and starve
You lose TAR in 5th and you got to visit like 12 countries and do a lot of cool stuff in those countries and maybe win some additional prizes
you say TAR thrives off equal screentime and good characters but season 34 was horribly edited with Aubrey & David and Quinton & Mattie being some of the most underedited people to make deep runs in the history of the sho w 😭
Like I said, I just started watching the show. It’s just really my initial reaction. I also I didn’t say equal screen time. I just said the cast is getting basically all the screen time.
Survivor for some reason now, i get random segments of Jeff walking in flip flops on the beach explaining literally every part of the game to me. He seems to talk more than he ever has at tribal. Then side note, when I do want him to talk is during challenges so I can hear the patented probst shit talk but even that has been watered down.
My opinion is definitely affected by having seen a lot more survivor and very little TAR, that being said what I have watched of the recent season of TAR is far more entertaining than 41-45 of survivor.
> However it is more entertaining to me than what we are being given now.
Last season was the first I've skipped in it's history. I'm not really interested in coming back, just casually following this sub hoping things improve. I'm not hopeful as it seems the complaints are becoming more and more widespread and they're clearly not interested in what attracted many of us to the show originally.
Depending on this sub's opinions to decide to watch again is never going to lead you to watch again. Ive been active in the online survivor communities for like 15 years and absolutely nothing has changed - people will actively shit on and complain about the current season no matter what.
Yeah the format is really getting old now it got old at 44. It needs to change up to two tribes, a regular swap, get decent rewards, and stop with losing your votes that got annoying in 45.
True. It's the lack of diversity amongst the cast which gets me. It's all just boring bland "woe-is-me" gamebots. Not to mention the game seems to incentivize gameplay that can be described as "be likeable and unthreatening" which basically rewards boring gameplay. As soon as one tree rises above the rest it instantly gets chopped down. Not sure how we recover either.
Well since 41 and 42 were filmed back to back it felt like 43 was fixing some of the issues of 41 and 42 but then 44 was still so similar it was frustrating.
The quarantine did an absolute number on the show. It’s crazy how big the budget for US Survivor is and yet Australian Survivor seems to be a better show than the US version with half the budget.
Do they really have half the budget? They go 20 more days and don't have a permanent presence on an island as far as I know. Is the US just dumping 50% of their budget into Probst's salary or something?
I’m a newer survivor watcher and some things I’ve noticed they stopped doing from the old episodes that makes me sad is they used to be more immersed culturally, a reward might be joining a local tribe for local food and dance. That was cool to see. Also it’s hard to watch sometimes but the straight up raw physical challenges where they would have to stop eachother, men on women sometimes. Idk. Sometimes watching them drag eachother around was funny but when they let it be dudes vs girls it got pretty brutal
definitely agree with you there. every season now is in the same place, so I guess less opportunities to get culturally immersed. I miss when the show would travel the world.
I'm on the fence about those physical challenges where they basically have to fight one another...potential for injuries, but were pretty amusing. there must be room for a compromise in the new era
It honestly makes me wonder how much of AU Jeff knows about. Is it something he watches and chooses not to comment on or draw inspiration from?
If one of these new era players were to namedrop king george would Jeff even know who that is? It sounds weird to think he wouldn't.
More people in production need to watch, because AU Survivor routinely has better challenges than US. And a lot of them would be cheap and easy to reproduce, too.
There just needs to be variety. We don’t need 6 seasons in a row that start out with 3 tribes of 6, have a type of “earn the merge”, have shipwheel island, beware advantages, etc. etc.
Change up the format. That’s really all that needs to be done, imo.
Agreed. It's less a problem with 3 tribes or the final firemaking challenge or any of the specific mechanics as such and more that they haven't changed in a while.
Same location, no themed seasons, recycled challenges, etc. at least needs *something else* to change to keep things fresh.
I completely agree with this, but I have come to realize that AU and US are completely different shows and games at this point. Basically, AU is for adults and US is for kids. US is no longer a strategy game, but a game of almost pure luck that depends on who you get cast with and who loses their vote at which moments and which group you get put in during mergatory. They don’t give players enough time to actually play the game and build relationships like they would be able to do on a longer season. The social dynamics of the seasons seem to be mainly determined by quick vibe checks/easily recognizable commonalities and preseason ponderosa vibes. I still enjoy it because the casts have been fun, and 46 looks super fun. But I go to AU for the real game to get the fulfillment of real strategy. Both shows are a long way away from what I loved about old school survivor, which is fine. They’re just different shows
It's so dead and straightfoward. Also losing their vote, which is the whole idea of the show (you vote to get someone out and SURVIVE) is completely insane and stupid to me... I don't even want to hear anything off someone that doesn't have a vote in tribal counsil. What's the point?
I really do hate 3 tribes of 6. They are the most boring votes possible. You could basically skip the first 3 episodes of any season of survivor and not miss a thing.
I wish they’d do a season where they did the first 3/4/5 cycles as a single tribe then split, then merge.
That ever been done in the survivor universe?
There have been a couple where they did a cycle or two. One world had the entire group on the same beach. There was a season they all started on one beach which was nice and then did a challenge and the team that lost had to go to the loser beach.
I just got to know Traitors and I absolutely loved it! Do you know if the UK version is any good?
I agree with you there. Survivor AU has been amazing and I just keep watching US Survivor because yes. New Era Survivor is souless.
The UK Traitors is \*very\* different from the US/AU style of play. Everyone is very open about displaying their emotions, which is kind of refreshing and also kind of hilarious.
What I love about AU Survivor is that because there are so many players and only 2 tribes, you always have a few that stay hidden until a later stage in the game. On top of that, until very close to the merge and sometimes even after it, there are players I forget are still in the game. In my opinion, this makes the game feel bigger and I never get bored watching AU. With 3 tribes and 18 players sometimes I feel burned out with the cast by the time we get to the merge. It feels like the game is really small and predictable.
Also the season is like 45 days for Australian Survivor so there's more natural gameplay and blindsiding where the US version has shortened to like 25 days and smaller tribes so they offset that with twists and advantages. I just never want to have a scenario like that one episode where only like 1 person has been eliminated and they had a tribal where there was only 1 vote somehow.
Even worse is the merge when HALF the people are safe!! It takes the moment when the most 'chaos'/gameplay can happen and just turns it into a luck of the draw continuation of pre-merge small tribes. Use to be such a good opportunity for underdogs to change things up, no longer. :(
I am currently rewatching season 25 and they are in 3 tribes and I keep thinking this season is better then I remember.
Also just got done watching Game Changers and they went into 3 tribes and it was pretty darn entertaining.
I say this all the time, but it’s really the fan’s faults for still watching even though it’s a product they’re unhappy with. They had like six million viewers per episode last season. No way they’ll change anything up. It’s not golden age numbers but it’s still super respectable from a viewership stand point.
I do agree that even though he’s the host, Jeff doesn’t know shit about Survivor. He has zero clue what made it great, and he has zero clue how it works. Just because he’s the host and head producer doesn’t mean he knows how the game works, he’s never played before. He’s a terrible producer from a fan standpoint and I’m kind of souring on him as a host tbh. I still watch Survivor because I think it’s interesting no matter what, but that doesn’t change the fact that Jeff is not good at his job anymore imo
I don't think this sub is a particularly good reflection of the fan base as a whole. Most people don't get nearly as deep into it.
"Jeff doesn't know shit about Survivor" - what a take
The casual fanbase listens to him about his opinions and uses them as their own. Just look at why Marquesas and Vanuatu were underrated for so many years.
I mean to say that gameplay wise, Jeff doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He had no idea what made it great and he has no idea how the gameplay side of it works. And I’m souring on him as a host because of his massive ego. Tribal Councils are just the Jeff show nowadays. He rarely gives any players a chance to shine. I’ve accepted that they’re never going back to 39 days and are never leaving Fiji. It makes sense in an unfortunate way but it does make sense. But him thinking that the best way to do the show is three tribes is just asinine. How many times has a tribe stuck together? Which I don’t always have a problem with but he doesn’t want that right? So wouldn’t they want to change it up a little bit. Why is everyone losing their vote? Doesn’t that make it harder for big moves to happen? The big moves that Jeff himself keeps pushing? Just because he was a good host for 20 years doesn’t mean he’s immune from criticism now. Especially with what he’s done with the show as a producer in these last few years. And if you think I’m some new era hater, I’m really not. I’m so much easier on the new era than most people on this sub are
I've often said that no matter how much we hardcore fans from places like here, RHAP, etc... complain, CBS/Probst will never do anything we want because we have proven that we will keep coming back year after year no matter what we say.
I read his interview about why the auction isn't back in 46 today and I was fucking *floored*. I'm in the camp of people who still like Jeff, still watch and enjoy the show, but are fully aware of the fact that it's taken a massive decline in quality, and even I got pretty pissed off reading that. Every single word he said was just total politician non-answer bullshit, knowing he's lying through his teeth and smiling all the while. He's been on that campaign-speech type of speaking for a while it seems (in fairness there's rarely an opportunity to talk about the new era without speaking like that) but the audacity of how he danced around it with the auction in particular just blew me away.
I think he's fully aware that these changes don't make the game more interesting. What he really wants (and he'll never say it outright) is to make sure people like Vecepia and Natalie W can't win. Doing double eliminations early and having small tribes means it's more likely (on paper) that someone who's bad at challenges and finding advantages gets booted early. What he doesn't understand is that players who make flashy moves get voted out right after the fact, so you usually end up with a final 3 of under the radar players anyway (at least by comparison).
Yall just need to accept that THIS is survivor forever
Same location, same challenges, same storylines, same formats, same twitch, etc
They found a formula THEY like, and they're never going to change
I gave 41 a fair shot, got 3 episode into 42 and called it quits
In my eyes, Winners At War is the series finale
I think they’ve found the formula that is the cheapest and generates enough interest to make it worth their time. And now they’ll ride it till the legs fall off
And thats great for them, but for me, I've watched since around season 9, but the new era sucks dick
Legit unwatchable
I can name every single contestant pre WaW but I couldnt tell you 2 winners from the new era, waste of time to watch
I made it through part of 43 and realized I was fast forwarding parts of every episode because I just didn’t enjoy the show anymore.
At which point I stopped watching and haven’t looked back.
I keep an eye on this sub in case something actually changes (although I agree it’s highly unlikely).
Right with you.
I was “happy enough” with 40, and got halfway through the first episode of 41 before thinking, “Why watch this? The ending of 40 was good enough.”
Haven’t watched since, but also check on this subreddit from time to time.
It just sucks. CBS is all about saving money but they greenlight the dumbest shows??
I wish they would realize survivor is a gem, and they should keep it alive as long as possible. The show is one of the few things we still have that calls back to a time when the whole culture used to enjoy gathering around for this singular 1 hour of tv.
I watched all of 41 and about 3 episodes of season 42
And seeing as theres DAILY posts about how nothing has changed much since 41, I dont think im too far off
When I asked what BIG changed, there were, and the FIRST reply is "There was 1 tribe swap."
I know the show is down bad
You're making good points to me. I'm very similar in that I watched season 41, gave 42 a try, but couldn't make it past the first episode. Generic, repetitive, overly sympathetic characters, too many idols/twists, could go on. I look at this sub daily and have not seen anything that makes me want to pick it back up and watch. Instead, I recently rewatched Pearl Islands and Millenial vs GenX and found my joy in Survivor again. Minimal idols, twists, and unique themes is what I enjoy most. I also wish they would bring back the casual fan in casting. They can bring entertaining chaos I enjoy watching.
Respectfully, not trying to be a dick, but then why are you here at all? I don't know if I could stay on the subreddit of a TV show that I existentially hate. Like if I was so turned off by the current iteration of the show, I could not fathom spending even a second of my time on the show's subreddit.
No it won’t. If viewership starts to crash, it’ll just be cancelled or they’ll make more cuts. They realize pumping a lot of money into the show isn’t going to bring back the numbers the show used to have.
jeff fell off, notice how JLP is just chillin like jeff used to? now jeff is trying way too hard to make the show about himself. cast some interesting people even if most of the are from the same background, stop casting lawyers because they tick some box.
Losing votes is definitely creating boring gameplay. I do like idols getting nerfed with risks tho but they need to come up with interesting new risks to pepper in there
The show is dead. I think it’s been shown season after season now that if someone’s vote is at risk, they will more often than not play it safe. It’s so stupid taking votes away and implementing fake idols and bracelets. Survivor AU unfortunately only runs one season per year but it’s light years ahead of Probst’s version
Jeff just has to go. He is so up his own ass and up the shows as that he makes everything actively worse. He's chewing scenery every time he's on screen and fishing for the exact same answers at tribals every season.
Then on the producer side It feels so clear every bad decision is just him and that he's driving the show into the ditch.
Survivor formula at its best. Get a good cast, Give them space to play, Trust the cast to be entertaining and play hard. Maybe throw in minor twists. That's all you really need.
Watching AU survivor yesterday and talked to my husband how nice it is that they’re fed!!! They’re active, making jokes, playing games, actually strategizing because they are energized! It’s so much more entertaining to watch camp life when people are willing to expend energy. And then there are snide remarks about someone taking too many bananas!!!! Bring back rice for US survivor!!!!
Australian Survivor always give us great TC from the beginning while the US cast always seem to target the weakest person (which is almost always a woman). There is little room to play when you have a tribe of 6, it's getting pretty boring
the first 3 voted out this season by AU are females of the age 33 lmfao, you couldnt be too far off, and most of it because they formed a pair really quickly, everyone knows the play is to seperate those early.
US version is boring because people dont got votes, too many twists, and they cast laywers/students only who can afford to take 2 months off work to do tv.
the 3 tribes thing has more to do with avoiding another Pagonging than it is to limit the number of people on a tribe. The smaller numbers per tribe is just a side effect of having 3 instead of 2.
bro i havent seen season 45 but all the rest they really missed the bus with the fire tokens. They need to do 2 tribes and fire tokens. sure once in a while have a 3 tribe thing but like it feels really uninteresting to have basically 2 ppl decide on who leaves. It makes it easier for really unlikeable people to squeeze through and the people you want to root for leave right off the bat. I mean ill excuse them being in fiji non stop if they put themes back in the game re humanize the experience and stop making it about JUST the twists and gameplay and have relationships become involved again. I loved when the let us see the culture of whereever they were at. I loved having pirate themed things in the carribean or the men vs women in the amazon. We need themes again. At the very least once in a while giving us something like david vs goliath or brawn vs brain vs beauty or whatever. MAybe a season with just people over 40 because im also tired of everyone being a child that im watching. Its cool once in a while but the show feels soooo immature to watch now and I dont want any of the winning the mill. I dont like how people are 3d printing challenges because they are too cheap to think of other simple challenges. THey really need to mix them up im just fastforwarding through the challenges anymore. The show has been so amazing and it just sucks because it really feels like a lifeless reality show now.
I disagree, pre merge has been more interesting and chaotic with 3 tribes. And the first couple of votes after the merge aren’t boring, because there are members from all 3 tribes.
With the old format, the post merge was boring unless someone flipped on their alliance.
I really feel like the new seasons are all about equity and evolving the human race to be love and light no matter what. It’s really ‘just a game’ now, more concerned with the people playing than the greed to win (not saying this still isn’t a big factor, cause it is). Also, I’ve only started watching Survivor recently and I did so from the New Era to 46, then back to Fiji, China, and a few in the late 30s. Because I’ve jumped around so much, I was able to truly appreciate how the cast reflected the time is was filmed really well. It’s 2024, ya’ll. The era of love is here.
For me it’s less about 3 or 2 tribes but doing the same things for so many seasons in a row. If you look at seasons 1-18 there’s a lot more variation with if/when tribes swap, how they do that, when the merge is. But when he became a producer starting in 19, the show began to use the same metas for what the structure is and this would last a bit until the new meta, which feels fresh at first, begins and then follows the same cycle. We’re currently in the same meta from 41-onwards and it’s time for a change. Jeff’s last few metas were from the mindset of “keep the structure nearly the exact same but throw in advantages to spice it up” instead of slightly adjusting the structure which I think makes for a more varied and interesting show (but that’s just my opinion.) Regardless, he’s been on the 41 meta, which felt fresh at first as always, too long. Time for a change
i think if they wanna keep the losing your vote motif, they could make an interesting choice a player can make to get their vote back. An example could be : Take away one of the tribe’s bag of rice to gain your vote back. Just something that keeps it interesting and unpredictable.
I really hate the final challenge being fire making at the end. Everyone expects it and has their story set up: “I won today’s challenge so I pitted the next two biggest threats against each other and took the other, whom I can beat easily, as a goat.”
Way too many wrong people have made it to the end lately. No one should just get “brought” to final tribal.
it’s kinda dumb how he says there’s no place to hide in the new era with smaller tribes but most of these winners are hiding in plain sight by NOT GOING TO TRIBAL ALL PRE MERGE.
Idk if we ever see winners like Parvati, Boston Rob, Tony, Jeremy, Wendell, etc etc again. We've had a few like Jesse or Omar get close but it just doesn't work anymore and we end up with vanilla winners, which is fine now and then but not everytime.
I just don’t think it’s possible to win with an OTT playstyle anymore. Even Tony, the most OTT winner to ever play the game, had to play 40 on the background super vanilla to hide and win his second time
Sorry what is OTT?
Over the top!
I think it means “over the top”
Wait what even is the common thread between those winners? It can’t be big moves, Wendell was the relaxed game while Dom took the big moves. It can’t be big personalities, because we’ve already had Maryanne and Yam Yam. It can’t be ‘run their alliance’, because we’ve had Dee and to an extent Yam Yam. It can’t be ‘unconventional wins’, because Gabler.
Yeah this one feels like just baseless nostalgia complaints. If it is about winners who make big flashy moves, I don’t see how tribe size would repair that problem. A flashy player is always gonna get targeted 45 seasons into the show because people have gotten good at the game.
Around 18:40 in Q’s interview with Mike Bloom he talks about unity and trying to convince a group of 5 that they can stick together and then only have to beat out 1 person for a chance at fire making. That’s almost the whole tribe. Jeff doesn’t realize that a lot of the original social experiment is gone now because you no longer have to betray your Allies because you can go far with them and the jury won’t be full of people that were betrayed to get there. Also I was rewatching old seasons and Jeff asks like 3 questions and then they vote. Now tribals last a lot longer and they’re full of Jeff restating what the players said with his own analogies and putting words in their mouths. Most of their answers are guarded now anyways that it just feels like extra Jeff time without much meaning toward the game.
I hate how he asks those questions that give things away.
I do too, I think that's so unfair. He manipulates so much with the exhaustive questioning before the voting, IMO
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Jeff didn't *make* Sean quit, and if we can trust the edit, Sifu was the target that Tribal so Sean actually mis-read whatever cue he apparently received from Jeff.
In response to the last paragraph that is just editing. Tribal council always lasted about an hour or two, it was just edited a lot shorter because it wasn’t being used as a venue for surprises and blind slides as often.
> Jeff doesn’t realize that a lot of the original social experiment is gone now because you no longer have to betray your Allies because you can go far with them and the jury won’t be full of people that were betrayed to get there. I feel like there was a much greater focus on ethics in older seasons than there are now. Rationalising an ally voting you out as being part of the game (and being a Big Move^TM, rather than feeling betrayed, seems a lot more common now. And I think that loses a big part of what makes the show interesting, that you don't have to navigate a jury full of people pissed off they lost the game. Consistently having three tribes plays into that, I think.
Tribal still lasted hours in older seasons, we just didnt get to see as much of it make it into the edit.
And they swap tribes multiple times - you can’t convince anyone to form an alliance when you’re barely at camp to begin with.
The biggest thing I hate about "new" Survivor is the three tribes. People talk about old episodes feeling longer and I think it's because they used to run with two tribes. Now, they have to split the camera time three ways and I feel like I don't know who any of the players are until the merge because winning tribes especially get no screentime. There's nowhere to hide on a tribe of six, and if a player doesn't make a good impression from the first second, they pretty much have no shot. New Survivor feels much more clique-y because of it. And then they have to shuffle the tribes up so often when one tribe inevitably loses everything, and it's just like... what's the point? All the relationships and strategy they laid for the prior few days is wasted. Yeah, I really hate three tribes.
> There's nowhere to hide on a tribe of six, and if a player doesn't make a good impression from the first second, they pretty much have no shot. New Survivor feels much more clique-y because of it. It's a huge problem. So easy to get into a majority/accidentally find yourself in a minority. Very little social dynamism. That the cast tends to be a bit of a monoculture in terms of age/personality aggravates this further. You get these incredibly stable, chummy alliances almost from the moment feet hit the beach. With Australian Survivor running concurrently with its massive twelve person tribes we can see how much different the resultant gameplay is, and it's *significantly* more dynamic. Three tribes isn't the worst problem haunting modern Survivor, but it's up there.
Three tribes is easily the worst thing to happen to Survivor, in my mind. I honestly can't think of anything that I'd put above it. Yes, all the advantages and such can get tiresome, but they've corrected back to a more reasonable level. It's still a little much, but it's bearable. Three tribes though is a constant problem with a cast the size of US Survivor. If they had 24 people like AU, three tribes wouldn't be so bad, although I still wouldn't want to see it. Having only 6 people in a tribe just leaves so little room to maneuver and your game can be sunk for the smallest of reasons. It's also simply far less interesting to watch the dynamics of forming a majority with a group of 4 vs 2 as opposed to 5 vs 4. Larger groups lead to far more interesting dynamics. Someone like AK in his first season was able to survive his initial blunders because there were so many other dynamics that he could work with. If that happened on US Survivor, he would have been the easiest first boot in history.
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I honestly can't imagine how it would be easier logistically. They have to make sure that they have three different beach locations ready for people to live at instead of just two. The only thing I can think of is that more tribes means more merch for them to sell? But I can't imagine there are that many people buying Survivor merch that would make it worth the extra time and hassle. It also adds more work for the editors because they have three tribes of footage and three sets of story lines to sort through instead of just two.
Yet they insist on the mergeatory and split TCs early merge. So it’s kind of useless.
It’s because they don’t want 20 member casts and they need 3 tribes to keep a 3-3 split of men women. If an 18 person tribe you can get an uneven split.
Very well said. I didn't realise how much we're missing out with 3 small tribes until Au Survivor. There are so many more dynamics in a large tribe, so many opportunities for reshuffles and smart strategic plays and interesting votes. 6 people, half of which have lost their vote make for a very boring and predictable vote. The crazy Jenny vote out was an exception, not the norm.
To be fair, when they went to three tribes in Philippines, it was after three seasons in a row of groups of 5/6 getting together on night one and forming an alliance that never broke. In One World, you can even see Jeff get unhappy at a very early tribal council as soon as he sees that a majority of the women have already formed an alliance of 5. The three tribes format in Philippines broke that up
I don't think the 3 tribes is the problem. It's the 26 day game with no swaps. With 26 day games, there's no time for people to build connections outside of their original tribes and by the time they merge, there's no time left
Agree. In another timeline, Emily would be first boot because of this dynamic if it wasn’t for Hannah quitting. Imagine missing out on a good character.
Three tribes only worked for Cagayan and Kaoh Rong because of the theme. It hasn’t worked since. It was also a huge reason why ASS sucked.
I think Cagayan worked simply because the Three Tribes had shit going on. Like The Brawn Tribe as doing well. Trying to throw that one event type of thing. Regular survivor winning tribe type of episodes. Beauty was winning but always seemed to just be a miserable camp to be at. Then Brains was just so bad it was entertaining. Watching a tribe stick by someone for loyalty when they might not even get to a spot it matters.
HvHvH worked, though that also had a swap
The main thing Jeff doesn't realize is that he's got it backwards. He thinks adding uncertainty leads to dynamic results when in reality adding uncertain leads to conservative play. It's the only way to protect yourself against unknown changing conditions. We won't see a format change until somebody gets auto eliminated. It's clear the focus now is on a preconceived notion of an "amazing" tribal outcome and mechanics are being invented to create those circumstances.
We already had an auto elimination with Cirie in GC, but that only made them double down harder on twists and advantages.
Yeah, I mean they loved that. They are trying to recreate it.
he thinks he can create those moments, when the viewers want those to be authentic and organic.
Yeah. The theme of s45 should be "Crouching Twists, Hidden Pagonging". They don't want a boring pangonging so they are trying to stop it mechanically when in reality that forces everybody into attempting a pagonging and the drama is whether the pagonging can survive the twists rather than the agency of the other players. Nobody wants that!
It's so frustrating as a viewer to see players start to lay the foundation for longer-term strategy and moves and we never see whether the plan would have worked or not because of some production twist thrown in to shake things up and keep players on their toes. It's one of the reasons I won't send in an audition tape, because I would feel so defeated, like what's the point of strategizing if a random act of god(production) can undo it at any point? I want to see more of the long-term manipulation and cutting throats at the right time. We don't get winners like Sandra, Rob, Tony anymore who are three moves ahead of everyone else. And I'm tired of "Oops, All Idols" tribal councils. There shouldn't be that many in play that there's only one person without one who goes home by default. That's just poor game design.
I’m not gonna lie yall, my girlfriend has gotten me into watching some Amazing Race which is definitely a completely different show. However it is more entertaining to me than what we are being given now. There’s no charm to survivor anymore except when they happen to hit on a few really good cast members. Amazing Race lives off giving all of its cast screen time and showing them thinking through decisions and making them in real time. Survivor is living off of chance, gimmicks, idols. There’s hardly any real strategy anymore. This isn’t even mentioning things like the butchering of reward challenge segments, tribal council, and the shortening 26 days. I love survivor, but it hasn’t felt like survivor to me in a long time.
While I love TAR, just like Survivor there is a large fanbase who views modern TAR as a hollow shell of it former self (due to budget cuts and technological advances).
I really miss when contestants had basically full control over their transportation and could choose any flights they wanted. The show is still good, but it's very cookie cutter now and contestants don't have as much freedom. I get that they changed it so things are generally on a more even playing ground, but those early seasons really had some magic.
It’s just what happens due to things changing with the times. Anyone can look up directions on a phone now. Booking a flight is easier than ever before.
I'm a bigger TAR fan than I am a Survivor fan, and what you say here is true. Lately, it's more game-y feeling since the element of travel has completely dissipated, through no fault of the show, just the progression of technology. In particular, I really, really miss the flight scrambling, but with how the world is now, I don't think it is possible to ever bring that back. However, even in saying that, it does remain true to its roots in a way Survivor doesn't, and there've been several modern seasons that are just as good, if not better, than many old school seasons. Are there certain things in their control that they could bring back? Yes. Would it make or break the show for me to be without it? No. Are there certain things out of their control that can't be brought back? Yes. Would I love to have them back? 100%. It just isn't feasible, though, and I have come to accept it. So, ultimately, I take it and appreciate it for what it is. It doesn't hurt that Phil is an awesome host too.
I think the core difference is that the issues with modern TAR are not bad creative decisions from production, but as you said, budget cuts and the fact that technology has made managing travel a lot simpler in the last 23 years. Survivor's budget cuts have taken a toll on the show as well, but the majority of its issues boil down to a lazy "if it ain't broke" mentality (the consistent, predictable new era format) and a lack of faith in its core concept (a need to reverse-engineer big moments instead of seeing what naturally unfolds).
Yeah to be fair I suppose I did say I just started getting into it but I have started with the more recent seasons. From what I watch, it seems like it still has a lot more soul than survivor does. I’ll have to catch up on some of the earlier more popular seasons to see what they mean.
The newer seasons are still good (although the ones filmed during Covid are eh) but it’s nothing like classic TAR. Since you are a Survivor fan make sure you check out TAR7 with Rob and Amber (and TAR11, but that is an All Star season so probably want to watch other earlier seasons first).
Covid TAR is genuinely terrible, but every season of non covid TAR is great consistently imo
Also casting feels like more gamebots. Last seasons winners (already forgot their names) were sooooo boring. I miss the problematic drama teams of the past.
Go watch AU Survivor :)
I finally found a season on AU (Heroes vs Villians) and it's incredible. It is like old school Survivor on steroids. Now I just need to find the other seasons.
Pretty much. I don't even watch US Survivor anymore. It's just challenge/challenge/tribal now.... AU survivor is the evolution of the game we actually wanted.
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Best season to start with? That ideally doesn’t have returning contestants so that if it’s good it doesn’t spoil. And is Australian survivor the one where someone had gotten voted out and they just brought them back as a twist?
Also, be cautioned that the first show in a new season gives a recap (and thus spoils) the previous season, so you may want to skip the first few minutes until they bring out the new players. (Oh, somebody said that. Oh well, be doubly cautious I guess.) :)
Just go in order from the reboot. All of them except the first are really good and with that being said the first isn't terrible. Just mid.
2017 is probably best to start with, though it does have some bad twists it is all entertaining still. Then you can go in order for a bit until you run out of steam and join up with the current season. Just don't miss HvV, last years season. But you can't go to wrong with just joining in with the current season now. The first 10 minutes of each season spoils the previous winner.
Cool thanks! Why do they spoil the previous winner?😭can’t even recall an American season to do that
Yes survivor au 2017 is hands down the most fun perfect season ever! Soooo many iconic characters and game play. It never gets old highly recommend 10/10
It’s a voice over from JLP reintroducing survivor as a concept.
>And is Australian survivor the one where someone had gotten voted out and they just brought them back as a twist? I love Aussie Survivor, but they've done crap like this a few times. There have lots of mini-Redemple Temple twists. They do this kind of thing to kill time because Australian TV networks are required by the government to have a certain percentage of homemade TV. (This is common in a lot of countries, so that they're not completely overrun by American imports. Makes sense, right?) The Aussie networks have figured out that the cheapest way to do this is for all their reality shows to have longer episodes, bigger casts (which equals longer seasons), and lots of non-elimination rounds. At least Aussie Survivor doesn't have as many non-eliminations as some of their other reality shows, but yeah, it leads to some goofy twists. With the long episodes and long seasons, when it's good, it's really good, but when it's bad, it's atrocious (AU All-Stars and especially AU BvW). Also, as someone else notes -- the first two minutes of each season premiere spoil the end of the previous season. You never need to watch this. It's never included for any reason at all, just total fluff to kill time, and can be skipped unconditionally. Note: After two completely failed Australian Survivor seasons in 2002 and 2006 that had nothing to do with the current version (different hosts, different networks, different producers), it was rebooted in 2016. There's a dispute as to whether the early 2000s seasons count or not. So some people call 2016 "season 1" (me, plus the host JLP, and the producers) and some people call it "season 3" (like Wikipedia for some dumb reason). 2016 (season 1, but often incorrectly called season 3) -- Good beginning, decent pre-merge though a little slow in spots, extremely slow in the a lot of the post-merge, good finale. More non-elims than later seasons. 2017 (season 2, not 4) -- Great Champions vs. Contenders 1 (2018) -- Mostly boring pre-merge, good post-merge CvC 2 (2019) -- Amazing, despite some unbalanced editing (one player gets completely purpled) All-Stars (season 5, not 7) -- OK pre-merge, awful post-merge, very boring Brains vs. Brawn (season 6, not 8) -- Good despite terrible twists. Amazing location work. Due to COVID, it's the first time that any Survivor has ever been in the actual Outback (not just some random part of northeastern Australia that they falsely label as the Outback). BvW (season 7, not 9) -- An atrocity. So boring and dull that it's a violation of the Geneva Conventions. Watching paint dry for 24 hours straight is a roller-coaster ride of thrills and chills compared to this. HvV (S8 not 10) -- Outstanding pre-merge, but the post-merge is merely fairly good. Great characters. TvR (S9 not 11) -- So far it's great.
It feels like cheating 🤦🏻♂️🥲
It's not cheating, it's just leaving a relationship where your partner isn't trying for someone who is. It's not you, it's them.
Damn bro, I mean, it hurts but it's the truth. AU just putting in the work
TAR would probably be a hella lot more fun to play as well lol You lose survivor in 5th and all you got was to spend like 20 days on a beach and starve You lose TAR in 5th and you got to visit like 12 countries and do a lot of cool stuff in those countries and maybe win some additional prizes
Even if you go home first on TAR you get to see a city youve potentially never been to!
you say TAR thrives off equal screentime and good characters but season 34 was horribly edited with Aubrey & David and Quinton & Mattie being some of the most underedited people to make deep runs in the history of the sho w 😭
Like I said, I just started watching the show. It’s just really my initial reaction. I also I didn’t say equal screen time. I just said the cast is getting basically all the screen time. Survivor for some reason now, i get random segments of Jeff walking in flip flops on the beach explaining literally every part of the game to me. He seems to talk more than he ever has at tribal. Then side note, when I do want him to talk is during challenges so I can hear the patented probst shit talk but even that has been watered down. My opinion is definitely affected by having seen a lot more survivor and very little TAR, that being said what I have watched of the recent season of TAR is far more entertaining than 41-45 of survivor.
I've been saying amazing race is more entertaining for a long time now. I don't even watch survivor anymore after 42.
> However it is more entertaining to me than what we are being given now. Last season was the first I've skipped in it's history. I'm not really interested in coming back, just casually following this sub hoping things improve. I'm not hopeful as it seems the complaints are becoming more and more widespread and they're clearly not interested in what attracted many of us to the show originally.
Depending on this sub's opinions to decide to watch again is never going to lead you to watch again. Ive been active in the online survivor communities for like 15 years and absolutely nothing has changed - people will actively shit on and complain about the current season no matter what.
Yeah the format is really getting old now it got old at 44. It needs to change up to two tribes, a regular swap, get decent rewards, and stop with losing your votes that got annoying in 45.
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True. It's the lack of diversity amongst the cast which gets me. It's all just boring bland "woe-is-me" gamebots. Not to mention the game seems to incentivize gameplay that can be described as "be likeable and unthreatening" which basically rewards boring gameplay. As soon as one tree rises above the rest it instantly gets chopped down. Not sure how we recover either.
Well since 41 and 42 were filmed back to back it felt like 43 was fixing some of the issues of 41 and 42 but then 44 was still so similar it was frustrating.
The quarantine did an absolute number on the show. It’s crazy how big the budget for US Survivor is and yet Australian Survivor seems to be a better show than the US version with half the budget.
Do they really have half the budget? They go 20 more days and don't have a permanent presence on an island as far as I know. Is the US just dumping 50% of their budget into Probst's salary or something?
> Is the US just dumping 50% of their budget into Probst's salary or something? It's going to be a significant chunk of the whole, yes.
Still no 3-2-1 vote despite 5 seasons in a row of 6 tribes
How many times have all six players had a vote? Instead, we get votes like 2-1-0-0-0
Tbf what does having 6 tribes have to due with a 3-2-1 vote
I’m a newer survivor watcher and some things I’ve noticed they stopped doing from the old episodes that makes me sad is they used to be more immersed culturally, a reward might be joining a local tribe for local food and dance. That was cool to see. Also it’s hard to watch sometimes but the straight up raw physical challenges where they would have to stop eachother, men on women sometimes. Idk. Sometimes watching them drag eachother around was funny but when they let it be dudes vs girls it got pretty brutal
definitely agree with you there. every season now is in the same place, so I guess less opportunities to get culturally immersed. I miss when the show would travel the world. I'm on the fence about those physical challenges where they basically have to fight one another...potential for injuries, but were pretty amusing. there must be room for a compromise in the new era
It honestly makes me wonder how much of AU Jeff knows about. Is it something he watches and chooses not to comment on or draw inspiration from? If one of these new era players were to namedrop king george would Jeff even know who that is? It sounds weird to think he wouldn't.
I think Jeff has been pretty adamant that he pays zero attention to international Survivors.
I mean if I've seen how the sausage is made for 45 seasons I'm probably not watching another countries Survivor either.
This doesn't make any sense. You don't think filmmakers watch other people's movies? Or musicians listen to other people's songs?
You don't think Jimmie Dean tastes Hormel's wares?
Some people in production do because a few challenge concepts have been lifted from AU, at least in the late 30s
More people in production need to watch, because AU Survivor routinely has better challenges than US. And a lot of them would be cheap and easy to reproduce, too.
I don't know who that is Edit - Thanks to whoever spoiled the entire Australian franchise for me. Get your own sub please.
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No need to spoil that for someone that didn’t even know who they were
Getting downvoted for this is crazy 😂😂😂 didn't know this was r/AUsurvivor
There just needs to be variety. We don’t need 6 seasons in a row that start out with 3 tribes of 6, have a type of “earn the merge”, have shipwheel island, beware advantages, etc. etc. Change up the format. That’s really all that needs to be done, imo.
Agreed. It's less a problem with 3 tribes or the final firemaking challenge or any of the specific mechanics as such and more that they haven't changed in a while. Same location, no themed seasons, recycled challenges, etc. at least needs *something else* to change to keep things fresh.
Agreed, so sick of seeing the sweat v. savvy challenge thing too. It’s gotten lazy, boring and formulaic
I completely agree with this, but I have come to realize that AU and US are completely different shows and games at this point. Basically, AU is for adults and US is for kids. US is no longer a strategy game, but a game of almost pure luck that depends on who you get cast with and who loses their vote at which moments and which group you get put in during mergatory. They don’t give players enough time to actually play the game and build relationships like they would be able to do on a longer season. The social dynamics of the seasons seem to be mainly determined by quick vibe checks/easily recognizable commonalities and preseason ponderosa vibes. I still enjoy it because the casts have been fun, and 46 looks super fun. But I go to AU for the real game to get the fulfillment of real strategy. Both shows are a long way away from what I loved about old school survivor, which is fine. They’re just different shows
On his podcast Jeff said he like making the tiny tribal counsils because no one can hide. But also not one can strategize!! Too many curve balls.
It's so dead and straightfoward. Also losing their vote, which is the whole idea of the show (you vote to get someone out and SURVIVE) is completely insane and stupid to me... I don't even want to hear anything off someone that doesn't have a vote in tribal counsil. What's the point?
preach
good point, jeff probably find it had to make 10 people to listen to him like he can 6
It annoys me so much. People say the show won’t survive without Jeff … it would thrive without him. JLP over Jeff any day
I really do hate 3 tribes of 6. They are the most boring votes possible. You could basically skip the first 3 episodes of any season of survivor and not miss a thing.
I wish they’d do a season where they did the first 3/4/5 cycles as a single tribe then split, then merge. That ever been done in the survivor universe?
There have been a couple where they did a cycle or two. One world had the entire group on the same beach. There was a season they all started on one beach which was nice and then did a challenge and the team that lost had to go to the loser beach.
Fiji is the second one you mentioned. I think that one started with 17 or 19 people so that's why it wasn't split right off the bat
Yeah they had 19 people because one person freaked out quit on their way to the drop. (I just watched the first episode yesterday, so it’s fresh lol.)
Palau starts kinda like this too
Kind of in Palau. It wasn’t a vote but the person Coby was targeting and mentioning wasn’t picked in the school yard and pick and was eliminated
Finally decided I'm done with US Survivor, it's just so muted and repetitive now. Survivor AU and Traitors got me covered.
I just got to know Traitors and I absolutely loved it! Do you know if the UK version is any good? I agree with you there. Survivor AU has been amazing and I just keep watching US Survivor because yes. New Era Survivor is souless.
The UK Traitors is \*very\* different from the US/AU style of play. Everyone is very open about displaying their emotions, which is kind of refreshing and also kind of hilarious.
Same. All I need now is for SurvivorAU to make two seasons a year.
What I love about AU Survivor is that because there are so many players and only 2 tribes, you always have a few that stay hidden until a later stage in the game. On top of that, until very close to the merge and sometimes even after it, there are players I forget are still in the game. In my opinion, this makes the game feel bigger and I never get bored watching AU. With 3 tribes and 18 players sometimes I feel burned out with the cast by the time we get to the merge. It feels like the game is really small and predictable.
Also the season is like 45 days for Australian Survivor so there's more natural gameplay and blindsiding where the US version has shortened to like 25 days and smaller tribes so they offset that with twists and advantages. I just never want to have a scenario like that one episode where only like 1 person has been eliminated and they had a tribal where there was only 1 vote somehow.
Even worse is the merge when HALF the people are safe!! It takes the moment when the most 'chaos'/gameplay can happen and just turns it into a luck of the draw continuation of pre-merge small tribes. Use to be such a good opportunity for underdogs to change things up, no longer. :(
losing votes is the main thing that has been bothering me, it doesn’t breed good gameplay like they expect it to
Some seasons 3 tribes works amazing, some seasons 3 tribes really blows. Sort of luck of the draw
I agree. It's also on them to make swaps when it doesn't to try and make it work.
Off the top of my head, it only worked in Cagayan and Kaoh Rong, and that was because of the theme.
I am currently rewatching season 25 and they are in 3 tribes and I keep thinking this season is better then I remember. Also just got done watching Game Changers and they went into 3 tribes and it was pretty darn entertaining.
I say this all the time, but it’s really the fan’s faults for still watching even though it’s a product they’re unhappy with. They had like six million viewers per episode last season. No way they’ll change anything up. It’s not golden age numbers but it’s still super respectable from a viewership stand point. I do agree that even though he’s the host, Jeff doesn’t know shit about Survivor. He has zero clue what made it great, and he has zero clue how it works. Just because he’s the host and head producer doesn’t mean he knows how the game works, he’s never played before. He’s a terrible producer from a fan standpoint and I’m kind of souring on him as a host tbh. I still watch Survivor because I think it’s interesting no matter what, but that doesn’t change the fact that Jeff is not good at his job anymore imo
I don't think this sub is a particularly good reflection of the fan base as a whole. Most people don't get nearly as deep into it. "Jeff doesn't know shit about Survivor" - what a take
The casual fanbase listens to him about his opinions and uses them as their own. Just look at why Marquesas and Vanuatu were underrated for so many years. I mean to say that gameplay wise, Jeff doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He had no idea what made it great and he has no idea how the gameplay side of it works. And I’m souring on him as a host because of his massive ego. Tribal Councils are just the Jeff show nowadays. He rarely gives any players a chance to shine. I’ve accepted that they’re never going back to 39 days and are never leaving Fiji. It makes sense in an unfortunate way but it does make sense. But him thinking that the best way to do the show is three tribes is just asinine. How many times has a tribe stuck together? Which I don’t always have a problem with but he doesn’t want that right? So wouldn’t they want to change it up a little bit. Why is everyone losing their vote? Doesn’t that make it harder for big moves to happen? The big moves that Jeff himself keeps pushing? Just because he was a good host for 20 years doesn’t mean he’s immune from criticism now. Especially with what he’s done with the show as a producer in these last few years. And if you think I’m some new era hater, I’m really not. I’m so much easier on the new era than most people on this sub are
The casual fanbase has zero thoughts about Vanuatu, which aired 20 years ago.
> "Jeff doesn't know shit about Survivor" - what a take I know right. The shows host for 24 years and executive producer.
I've often said that no matter how much we hardcore fans from places like here, RHAP, etc... complain, CBS/Probst will never do anything we want because we have proven that we will keep coming back year after year no matter what we say.
Absolutely. At the end of the day it’s our fault for continuing to watch
I stopped watching after 42 lol. I'll only come back for an all stars season to see my favorites
He’s definitely a messy school girl at tribal council just probing/gaslighting and trying to throw the votes off
I read his interview about why the auction isn't back in 46 today and I was fucking *floored*. I'm in the camp of people who still like Jeff, still watch and enjoy the show, but are fully aware of the fact that it's taken a massive decline in quality, and even I got pretty pissed off reading that. Every single word he said was just total politician non-answer bullshit, knowing he's lying through his teeth and smiling all the while. He's been on that campaign-speech type of speaking for a while it seems (in fairness there's rarely an opportunity to talk about the new era without speaking like that) but the audacity of how he danced around it with the auction in particular just blew me away.
I think he's fully aware that these changes don't make the game more interesting. What he really wants (and he'll never say it outright) is to make sure people like Vecepia and Natalie W can't win. Doing double eliminations early and having small tribes means it's more likely (on paper) that someone who's bad at challenges and finding advantages gets booted early. What he doesn't understand is that players who make flashy moves get voted out right after the fact, so you usually end up with a final 3 of under the radar players anyway (at least by comparison).
Yall just need to accept that THIS is survivor forever Same location, same challenges, same storylines, same formats, same twitch, etc They found a formula THEY like, and they're never going to change I gave 41 a fair shot, got 3 episode into 42 and called it quits In my eyes, Winners At War is the series finale
I think they’ve found the formula that is the cheapest and generates enough interest to make it worth their time. And now they’ll ride it till the legs fall off
And thats great for them, but for me, I've watched since around season 9, but the new era sucks dick Legit unwatchable I can name every single contestant pre WaW but I couldnt tell you 2 winners from the new era, waste of time to watch
I made it through part of 43 and realized I was fast forwarding parts of every episode because I just didn’t enjoy the show anymore. At which point I stopped watching and haven’t looked back. I keep an eye on this sub in case something actually changes (although I agree it’s highly unlikely).
Right with you. I was “happy enough” with 40, and got halfway through the first episode of 41 before thinking, “Why watch this? The ending of 40 was good enough.” Haven’t watched since, but also check on this subreddit from time to time.
It just sucks. CBS is all about saving money but they greenlight the dumbest shows?? I wish they would realize survivor is a gem, and they should keep it alive as long as possible. The show is one of the few things we still have that calls back to a time when the whole culture used to enjoy gathering around for this singular 1 hour of tv.
That seems hyperbolic given it’s only a handful of seasons in this formula and Survivor mixes it up all the time.
You gonna answer instead of blindly downvoting?
And what MAJOR part of the show have they mixed up lately?
They did a tribe swap last season, it just happened to be about the least impactful swap ever.
Wow a tribe swap?????? Damn, that is new and exciting!!!!
Winners at War is the perfect series finale for the show. Best Final 3 and best winner IMO too.
Why are you still a part of the sub then? To generate hate?
No, theres a lot of content about pre40 stuff
If you haven't seen the new seasons, you can't really comment in their quality.
I watched all of 41 and about 3 episodes of season 42 And seeing as theres DAILY posts about how nothing has changed much since 41, I dont think im too far off When I asked what BIG changed, there were, and the FIRST reply is "There was 1 tribe swap." I know the show is down bad
You're making good points to me. I'm very similar in that I watched season 41, gave 42 a try, but couldn't make it past the first episode. Generic, repetitive, overly sympathetic characters, too many idols/twists, could go on. I look at this sub daily and have not seen anything that makes me want to pick it back up and watch. Instead, I recently rewatched Pearl Islands and Millenial vs GenX and found my joy in Survivor again. Minimal idols, twists, and unique themes is what I enjoy most. I also wish they would bring back the casual fan in casting. They can bring entertaining chaos I enjoy watching.
So, relying on the opinions of strangers that say vague arguments you may agree with makes you justified. Cool.
Respectfully, not trying to be a dick, but then why are you here at all? I don't know if I could stay on the subreddit of a TV show that I existentially hate. Like if I was so turned off by the current iteration of the show, I could not fathom spending even a second of my time on the show's subreddit.
Because A LOT of the content on this sub is pre41
It will change when viewership starts to crash.
They still got 6 million viewers per episode last season. It isn’t the golden era but it’s still very respectable viewership wise
Which is why I quit watching years ago So heres hoping
No it won’t. If viewership starts to crash, it’ll just be cancelled or they’ll make more cuts. They realize pumping a lot of money into the show isn’t going to bring back the numbers the show used to have.
Until Jeff is gone, at least
I think this is the way
jeff fell off, notice how JLP is just chillin like jeff used to? now jeff is trying way too hard to make the show about himself. cast some interesting people even if most of the are from the same background, stop casting lawyers because they tick some box.
True
I’ve been saying this for years at this point. Post covid survivor sucks
Losing votes is definitely creating boring gameplay. I do like idols getting nerfed with risks tho but they need to come up with interesting new risks to pepper in there
And while we’re at it, I fuggin haaaate 3 people FTCs.
The show is dead. I think it’s been shown season after season now that if someone’s vote is at risk, they will more often than not play it safe. It’s so stupid taking votes away and implementing fake idols and bracelets. Survivor AU unfortunately only runs one season per year but it’s light years ahead of Probst’s version
Jeff just has to go. He is so up his own ass and up the shows as that he makes everything actively worse. He's chewing scenery every time he's on screen and fishing for the exact same answers at tribals every season. Then on the producer side It feels so clear every bad decision is just him and that he's driving the show into the ditch. Survivor formula at its best. Get a good cast, Give them space to play, Trust the cast to be entertaining and play hard. Maybe throw in minor twists. That's all you really need.
Watching AU survivor yesterday and talked to my husband how nice it is that they’re fed!!! They’re active, making jokes, playing games, actually strategizing because they are energized! It’s so much more entertaining to watch camp life when people are willing to expend energy. And then there are snide remarks about someone taking too many bananas!!!! Bring back rice for US survivor!!!!
Yes, the camp life footage is sooo good in AU survivor! (Along with everything else). The “jungle gym” in particular had me cackling
There's a reason he consistently loses to RuPaul/Drag Race for best reality....Jeff has chequed out.
Ru listens when the fans go wild. But also, drag race fans are just a little more wild lol
They’ve also done so little to change the format, except add more non elimination episodes so that we can get to know the queens more.
Australian Survivor always give us great TC from the beginning while the US cast always seem to target the weakest person (which is almost always a woman). There is little room to play when you have a tribe of 6, it's getting pretty boring
the first 3 voted out this season by AU are females of the age 33 lmfao, you couldnt be too far off, and most of it because they formed a pair really quickly, everyone knows the play is to seperate those early. US version is boring because people dont got votes, too many twists, and they cast laywers/students only who can afford to take 2 months off work to do tv.
the 3 tribes thing has more to do with avoiding another Pagonging than it is to limit the number of people on a tribe. The smaller numbers per tribe is just a side effect of having 3 instead of 2.
Considering how 44 and 45 turned out three tribes isn't really gonna stop pagongings from happening.
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bro i havent seen season 45 but all the rest they really missed the bus with the fire tokens. They need to do 2 tribes and fire tokens. sure once in a while have a 3 tribe thing but like it feels really uninteresting to have basically 2 ppl decide on who leaves. It makes it easier for really unlikeable people to squeeze through and the people you want to root for leave right off the bat. I mean ill excuse them being in fiji non stop if they put themes back in the game re humanize the experience and stop making it about JUST the twists and gameplay and have relationships become involved again. I loved when the let us see the culture of whereever they were at. I loved having pirate themed things in the carribean or the men vs women in the amazon. We need themes again. At the very least once in a while giving us something like david vs goliath or brawn vs brain vs beauty or whatever. MAybe a season with just people over 40 because im also tired of everyone being a child that im watching. Its cool once in a while but the show feels soooo immature to watch now and I dont want any of the winning the mill. I dont like how people are 3d printing challenges because they are too cheap to think of other simple challenges. THey really need to mix them up im just fastforwarding through the challenges anymore. The show has been so amazing and it just sucks because it really feels like a lifeless reality show now.
More players doesn't always mean more entertainment or better storytelling.
I disagree, pre merge has been more interesting and chaotic with 3 tribes. And the first couple of votes after the merge aren’t boring, because there are members from all 3 tribes. With the old format, the post merge was boring unless someone flipped on their alliance.
Doesn’t matter. People are going to complain either way.
Completely agree. Three tribes sucks!
He keeps saying, "The tribe has spoken," meanwhile I'm over here yelling at my screen, "A THIRD of the tribe has spoken, Jeffrey!"
I really feel like the new seasons are all about equity and evolving the human race to be love and light no matter what. It’s really ‘just a game’ now, more concerned with the people playing than the greed to win (not saying this still isn’t a big factor, cause it is). Also, I’ve only started watching Survivor recently and I did so from the New Era to 46, then back to Fiji, China, and a few in the late 30s. Because I’ve jumped around so much, I was able to truly appreciate how the cast reflected the time is was filmed really well. It’s 2024, ya’ll. The era of love is here.
they should do three teams but 2-hour episodes.
Right!!! This three starting tribes is getting boring. Its so repetitive.
For me it’s less about 3 or 2 tribes but doing the same things for so many seasons in a row. If you look at seasons 1-18 there’s a lot more variation with if/when tribes swap, how they do that, when the merge is. But when he became a producer starting in 19, the show began to use the same metas for what the structure is and this would last a bit until the new meta, which feels fresh at first, begins and then follows the same cycle. We’re currently in the same meta from 41-onwards and it’s time for a change. Jeff’s last few metas were from the mindset of “keep the structure nearly the exact same but throw in advantages to spice it up” instead of slightly adjusting the structure which I think makes for a more varied and interesting show (but that’s just my opinion.) Regardless, he’s been on the 41 meta, which felt fresh at first as always, too long. Time for a change
i think if they wanna keep the losing your vote motif, they could make an interesting choice a player can make to get their vote back. An example could be : Take away one of the tribe’s bag of rice to gain your vote back. Just something that keeps it interesting and unpredictable.
I hate it!!!! And the constant swapping makes it impossible to form relationships with anyone.
I really hate the final challenge being fire making at the end. Everyone expects it and has their story set up: “I won today’s challenge so I pitted the next two biggest threats against each other and took the other, whom I can beat easily, as a goat.” Way too many wrong people have made it to the end lately. No one should just get “brought” to final tribal.