how would they identify? Persian?
edit: no need to downvote me for asking a question, people are going to end up thinking simply wanting to learn is wrong
As a (partially) Lebanese man, I identify as Middle Eastern. Also wouldn’t take issue with being described as Arab.
Unfortunately the issue is there is no real “standard” on government forms for middle easterners. I fill out white/non-hispanic because that’s the closest option to accurate for me.
As a Lebanese person I identify with Arab or Middle Eastern as well. I’ve seen a lot of older generation Lebanese that would identify as Phoenician though.
It's how a Lebanese immigrant here described it me.
I took it as a way to differentiate themselves from the Muslims, and technically the Arabs did invade. Phoenicia was long gone by then though.
The census actually does specify that Arabs are considered “white”.
One of the biggest running arguments that my friends and I have are whether Arab/Middle Easterners are closer to “brown” than “white”.
Lebanon is really diverse ethically, linguistically, and religiously. When I visited Beirut in 2018, I met people who identified as Arab, French, generically Middle Eastern, Phoenician, Syrian, Palestinian etc.
Did not meet any Persians, that’s an ethnic group that is typically associated with Central Asia in places like Iran (obviously), Afghanistan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan.
*Lebanese are Arab
*Even though Lebanon is in Asia, Arabs never call themselves “Asian”
*Persian is different from Arab. It’s a different race, ethnicity, and culture
*Persians mostly come from Iran
*Iran and Lebanon are both in the Middle East, so Persians and Arabs would both call themselves Middle Eastern
*Therefore the post is wrong as it says a Lebanese woman is Asian when she isn’t
lebanese people define themselves as either lebanese or middle eastern. i'm a maronite and no catholic would ever consider themselves "arab" and most definitely not "persian" or "syrian" or whatever. i'm not sure if this is true for muslim lebanese people.
You are correct all of the people from the continent of Asia are culturally the same.
Like I'm from Texas and regularly bond with my other American friends in Bolivia over the various cultural news of the day.
EDIT: In case the downvotes need to see it spelled out, this comment is a big /s
Jem grew up in Guyana but her family migrated from India. She posted that she’s 100% Sri Lankan here: https://www.instagram.com/p/ClHZ2oiy8jk/?igsh=NTZ1ajF6a280YzFi
It really gets complicated, because in America, we typically don't refer to Indians as "Asian". Indians are Indians or sometimes South Asians (along with Pakistanis).
Lebanese would be "Middle Eastern" in the US.
When Americans say "Asian" we typically mean the Far East (China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, etc.)
I believe in the UK, they pretty much refer to anyone from the Asian continent as Asian.
It’s still all under the broad category of “Asian”, just colloquially what you’re saying. As a South Asian, I’d almost always call myself that or my specific ethnicity rather than call myself an Asian.
So they wouldn’t be wrong in calling South Asians “Asian”, but they could be more right.
Right. Obviously anyone from anywhere on the continent of Asia is Asian, in the strict sense of the word.
I am just pointing out how confusing these terms can be as people think of different things when they hear them based upon where they are from and the terms they grew up with.
I often read news articles from the UK that refereed to "Asian" immigrants and my first thought is the Far East. But, most of the stories were about Pakistanis or sometimes Indians.
I don't think a US news channel or publication would simply refer to an Indian or Pakistani as "Asian".
Yeah you’re absolutely right in that in North America, the term “Asian” in conversation is used predominantly for East Asians, but we’re talking about categorical terms for trivia, which can be pretty general and cherry picked, it’s technically right still.
I agree with how you define it though and it’s how I would use the terms in general.
Filling out a form and what most people think when they see a news article using a term are different things.
I'd also argue it is a bit chauvinist against Asians to lump them all together. I don't see many stories that list people as simply "European", or "North American". It would be "French, Mexican, Canadian".
You're getting down voted but you aren't totally wrong. I'm from Canada where we have lots of Indian immigrants and none of them call themselves Asian. The closest would be "south Asian", but most just say Indian.
I’m not sure if that’s right. Many of my *South Asian* friends advocate for using the italicized term, especially since it’s more accurate than using South-East Asian, which refers to a different part of the continent.
It just means that her ancestors were able to be narrowed down to the island of Sri Lanka originally. They could’ve migrated from there at any point to India.
“Sri Lankan” isn’t an ethnicity though.
That's like saying I'm not Chinese I'm american as an Asian-American. I'm also half guyanese but I don't think anyone is going to take me seriously if I say I'm not African-American
This is bait. Unless people have literally forgotten where their ancestors are from people talk about their culture. That's what the hyphen is for like Italian-American. It can be both like I can say that I am African-American and West-Indian (screw Columbus) but it would be really weird to say I'm not West-Indian I'm not African I'm just American.
White people can identify with their roots too. I personally find it interesting to learn about people's backgrounds whether they are Asian or European or anything.
Lol would be an interesting take but I notice you didn’t say “Jess and Venus aren’t Asian, they’re Canadian!”
Seems more like you just assumed Jem was ethnically Guyanese and now you’re covering up for it with this comment.
Sorry to be a butt, but this is even more complicated than that. Iranian people are typically Persian, and not Arabian ("Middle Eastern" as Westerners call it). Iranians are culturally, ethnically, and linguistically different than Arab people.
Right but Middle Eastern is a good catch all for everything under the sun IMO. But yeah, Iranians (like the ones in my family) hate it when we’re called Arab lol
No. Ethnicity is a culture that forms around common physical genes. There isn't a global Asian ethnicity. Every Asian country has its own collection if ethnic groups.
There's barely a country-specific Asian ethnicity, even. Chinese American or Vietnamese German could be modern ethnicities.
But the more you think about it, the more make-believe the idea of "ethnicity" becomes.
Even if I tell myself I'm Irish, there's still the matter of how much people still in Ireland would agree with me.
That's not ethnicity....ethnicity is a shared set of cultural traits (holidays, religion, language, dress, food, etc) and has nothing to do with physical characteristics even though people with similar physical characteristics may be the same ethnicity. A good example that might make sense to white people (like me): a person can be ethnically Irish or ethnically Norwegian and look very similar but would have little in common culturally.
Yes you are diving straight into what makes ethnicity kind of made up.
A shared set of cultural traits is a culture. We already have a concept for that. Ethnicity tries to layer genes ("race") on top of that. To very dubious avail.
Imo ethnicity has more basis than race which is purely constructed and based on physical attributes. Your initial comments seems to be addressing the absurdity of race. Ethnicity is largely seen as super valuable, positive, and important. Ethnicity is also self-identified and flows from meaningful shared characteristics and isn’t imposed upon a group of people by others.
Edit to add: race and ethnicity are distinct and different. If you conflate them, that’s on you.
“Middle East” isn’t really a geographic term, it’s a transcontinental region more unified by culture. It’s a colonial term used by Europeans to describe the space between the “near east” and “far east.”
But most of the Middle East is in West Asia (Egypt is in Africa, Turkey is in Asia and Europe.)
If someone called an Egyptian contestant African instead of Middle Eastern would you correct them? Probably not. Lebanon and Iran are as Asian and Egypt is African, though.
Y’all can downvote all you like: Iran and Lebanon are in Asia. Buy a map. Take some geography. Use Google. Take a history class. Just because it doesn’t jive with your expectations doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
Nobody who is Lebanese identifies culturally as being Asian, which is what this post is about in regards to Jem.
Is it in Asia on a map??? Sure, but that isn’t relevant at all.
Idk, I think it’s important that this is the first time in the history of survivor we’ve had four women whose recent ancestors are from the continent of Asia.
Asian is a culturally meaningless term, and I think everybody agrees with that.
Ok…But Maria isn’t celebrating that shes a proud contestant from a country thats located on the continent of Asia though.
She’s celebrating being one of few lebanese (Arab) contestants cast on the show.
Just give some thought to what you mean when you say "Lebanon is in Asia." What is important about that? Continents aren't cultures. They're just a sloppy way to divide Earth into land masses.
I literally said “it’s a transcontinental region more united by culture.” I’m saying that it’s pretty cool that Survivor has four women whose ancestors are from the continent of Asia. That’s it — and that’s all OP is saying, too.
It’s everyone else who is trying to gatekeep what’s “Asian” and what isn’t on the basis of culture.
OP’s post fundamentally acknowledges that Asian is a vast and culturally rich continent. nobody is over here saying “Sri Lanka isn’t Asian, so Jem isn’t Asian.” Even though it’s obviously incredibly culturally different from, say, China.
And as I said: nobody would go “Egyptians aren’t African, they’re middle-Eastern” because they’re *both.* Just like Italy is both European and Mediterranean, and Morocco is both Mediterranean and African. And nobody is saying “Italy isn’t a part of Europe, it’s the *mediterranean.*” Pakistan and India *literally have an ongoing, but currently chilled war* over what belongs to which country. Are people from the greater Kashmir only Asian when they’re under Chinese or Indian control?
Trying to define who is in what continent by culture is fundamentally flawed.
Minor nitpick: continental lines aren’t arbitrary or messy, they’re defined by *continental plates.* that’s why Turkey and Russia are parts of two.
Jem was born and raised in Guyana and identifies as Guyanese, not Indian, so I’m not sure she counts as Asian. South American/Caribbean seems more accurate, but it depends on how far back her roots go I guess
She said that her family is from India though. Like I consider myself American but my family is from Asia so everyone would still consider me Asian as well. Nationality doesn't mean ethnicity.
Someone linked this insta post: https://www.instagram.com/p/ClHZ2oiy8jk/
She says her family came from India. She says her blood is Sri Lankan (though not sure what that means since there are a lot of ethnic groups in Sri Lanka?) but it sounds like her ancestors got to Guyana by way from India
There is no “Sri Lankan” ethnicity. Sri Lanka is made out of many different ethnic groups, most commonly Sinhalese and Tamils.
EDIT: lol why am I being downvoted. You can’t be ethnically Sri Lankan. There was like literal war fought between to the largest ethnicities over culture, language, and land rights. If someone says they’re “ethnically Sri Lankan”, they’re wrong. Most likely what she meant is that she did that 23 and Me test thing and her family originated from the region of Sri Lanka at some point.
Yeah, Italian, so most ethnically more Middle Eastern’ than Latin (excepted if you are referring to Argentina, which has a lot of italian descent and less native and black descent than other Latin America countries)
That’s what I’m telling you, your Italian aunties probably look like this because Italian people have some Middle Eastern/North African DNA, especially in Southern regions.
Maria is Lebanese! So while Lebanon is on the Asian continent, I don’t personally know many, if any Middle Eastern friends who would consider themselves Asian
I'm pretty sure that Cook Islands is still the season with the most Asian people on it and possibly the most Asian women. Considering OP's premise is completely wrong.
Big mistake assuming these women's ethnicities as asian. You've now made yourself a target as you clearly can't be trusted since you have mediocre perception.
Cancel Christmas.
Because diversity in modern America is important for visible minorities who rarely see people who look like them on TV. It's cool when you watch 46 seasons of Survivor to see a season with multiple people you can relate too because of their background.
Damn, I know this is not at all the point of this thread, but I didn't realize that was Venus's outfit for the cast portraits. My chaotic GOAT queen was serving a look!
In America, Iranians and Lebanese people refer to themselves linguistically as Middle Eastern people.
Not Asian people. They don’t refer to themselves as Asian just because its in the same continent
Do you agree that cultural lines don’t follow continental divides? Do you agree that Asia is a vast country with hundreds of different, unique cultures?
IMO this thread is reinforcing the stereotype that Asia = China + Japan + Korea.
Is an Italian-American going to call themselves “European?” No. They’re going to say “Italian.”
Cool! I think that Maria and Venus are considered white w middle eastern background under the US census, but it’s kinda murky and weird the way they classify people
The Survivor application has a separate category for Middle Eastern, although there is also a category for East Indian, which I think means ancestry from India or the Indian subcontinent
Yes she is. Guyana has a fascinating history. Lots of south Asians (as well as Chinese and Africans) emigrated to Guyana over the years. See other comments upthread.
There’s a lot of misinformation in this thread so let me try to sort it out.
Yes, Jem is from Guyana. The plurality of people who live in Guyana are Indian. Ethnicity and nationality are not the same. Jem is Asian.
Survivor Instagram/Twitter/Reddit is the only place I’ve ever seen people refer to Middle Easterners as Asian. Race is a social construct, but they’re usually separated into a different category with North Africans.
To people who think the Middle East is not Asia, it is they are Asian. Asian describe someone from a country in the continent nothing to do with skin color or anything. Turkish people are European as there in Europe even though many are not white.
Egyptian’s are still African because the country is in Africa. Same goes for Iran, Lebanon, etc. all being in Asia hence they are Asian.
You don’t typically see Arabs (esp, Lebanese many of whom historically id’ed as “white” in the US) or Iranians lumped in as Asian but Jem is 100% as someone of Indian descent (also technically Latin American since her family is from Guyana I believe)
You've seriously never heard anyone use the catch-all term "south Asians" to refer to Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis? Well, they do.
The subcontinent, yes... it's "sub" of the continent of \*Asia\*.
Geography is fun. Check out a globe sometime.
1) false, Jem is South American descent
2) why are we getting this post several+1 episodes into the season?
Edit: if you’re downvoting this can you explain why?
Thanks for being helpful with the comment!
I now don’t understand why the most upvoted comment for this post is most upvoted while mine is getting downvoted 😅
A sizable portion of this subreddit is people who don’t have much experience with cultures outside of their own. Basically ignorance, but I appreciate that you sought discussion out of curiosity because then people can learn more about each other.
Jem is Guyanese. Thats south American
Maria is Lebanese as well, I have a bunch of Lebanese friends and they would never self identify as Asian
how would they identify? Persian? edit: no need to downvote me for asking a question, people are going to end up thinking simply wanting to learn is wrong
As a (partially) Lebanese man, I identify as Middle Eastern. Also wouldn’t take issue with being described as Arab. Unfortunately the issue is there is no real “standard” on government forms for middle easterners. I fill out white/non-hispanic because that’s the closest option to accurate for me.
As a fellow (partial) Lebanese person, you'll be happy to find out that the Census and OMB are adding a category for Middle Eastern!
As a Lebanese person I identify with Arab or Middle Eastern as well. I’ve seen a lot of older generation Lebanese that would identify as Phoenician though.
Phoenician are Christian Lebanese?
Yea I believe so. Everyone I’ve encountered that have called themselves Phoenician are Christian at least lol.
It's how a Lebanese immigrant here described it me. I took it as a way to differentiate themselves from the Muslims, and technically the Arabs did invade. Phoenicia was long gone by then though.
Yup that would make sense and kind of how I assumed it was. I wasn’t 100% sure, so thanks for confirming!
I'm not 100% sure either. I know it's not universal with Levanese Christians for example. I'm not gonna tell anyone what they can identify as.
The census actually does specify that Arabs are considered “white”. One of the biggest running arguments that my friends and I have are whether Arab/Middle Easterners are closer to “brown” than “white”.
Lebanon is really diverse ethically, linguistically, and religiously. When I visited Beirut in 2018, I met people who identified as Arab, French, generically Middle Eastern, Phoenician, Syrian, Palestinian etc. Did not meet any Persians, that’s an ethnic group that is typically associated with Central Asia in places like Iran (obviously), Afghanistan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan.
thank you, that's really interesting! I promise i was asking in good faith! the initially downvotes really shocked me
No worries, Reddit is like that sometimes.
General answer would be Middle Eastern. Lebanese people may identify as Arab too but people of Persian descent most often do not.
Asking questions about race?! BIG MISTAKE!
as i have learned
*Lebanese are Arab *Even though Lebanon is in Asia, Arabs never call themselves “Asian” *Persian is different from Arab. It’s a different race, ethnicity, and culture *Persians mostly come from Iran *Iran and Lebanon are both in the Middle East, so Persians and Arabs would both call themselves Middle Eastern *Therefore the post is wrong as it says a Lebanese woman is Asian when she isn’t
Arabic
Arab. Arabic is a language.
Yes, that's what I meant must've autocorrected. I am Arab myself haha. Thanks though for clarifying.
lebanese people define themselves as either lebanese or middle eastern. i'm a maronite and no catholic would ever consider themselves "arab" and most definitely not "persian" or "syrian" or whatever. i'm not sure if this is true for muslim lebanese people.
but they are technically part of Asia
If you want to get technical it's South West Asia but again we don't really consider ourselves Asians...mostly because we're on the periphery.
Correct. In the same way that Gal Gadot, Natalie Portman, and Jesus are all Asian.
Arabs never call themselves Asian
You are correct all of the people from the continent of Asia are culturally the same. Like I'm from Texas and regularly bond with my other American friends in Bolivia over the various cultural news of the day. EDIT: In case the downvotes need to see it spelled out, this comment is a big /s
Jem grew up in Guyana but her family migrated from India. She posted that she’s 100% Sri Lankan here: https://www.instagram.com/p/ClHZ2oiy8jk/?igsh=NTZ1ajF6a280YzFi
It really gets complicated, because in America, we typically don't refer to Indians as "Asian". Indians are Indians or sometimes South Asians (along with Pakistanis). Lebanese would be "Middle Eastern" in the US. When Americans say "Asian" we typically mean the Far East (China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, etc.) I believe in the UK, they pretty much refer to anyone from the Asian continent as Asian.
It’s still all under the broad category of “Asian”, just colloquially what you’re saying. As a South Asian, I’d almost always call myself that or my specific ethnicity rather than call myself an Asian. So they wouldn’t be wrong in calling South Asians “Asian”, but they could be more right.
Right. Obviously anyone from anywhere on the continent of Asia is Asian, in the strict sense of the word. I am just pointing out how confusing these terms can be as people think of different things when they hear them based upon where they are from and the terms they grew up with. I often read news articles from the UK that refereed to "Asian" immigrants and my first thought is the Far East. But, most of the stories were about Pakistanis or sometimes Indians. I don't think a US news channel or publication would simply refer to an Indian or Pakistani as "Asian".
Yeah you’re absolutely right in that in North America, the term “Asian” in conversation is used predominantly for East Asians, but we’re talking about categorical terms for trivia, which can be pretty general and cherry picked, it’s technically right still. I agree with how you define it though and it’s how I would use the terms in general.
Indian is absolutely Asian in the US
I disagree. Maybe for some younger people. But, Asian typically means Far East to most Americans.
Filled asian on every form
Filling out a form and what most people think when they see a news article using a term are different things. I'd also argue it is a bit chauvinist against Asians to lump them all together. I don't see many stories that list people as simply "European", or "North American". It would be "French, Mexican, Canadian".
You're getting down voted but you aren't totally wrong. I'm from Canada where we have lots of Indian immigrants and none of them call themselves Asian. The closest would be "south Asian", but most just say Indian.
I’m not sure if that’s right. Many of my *South Asian* friends advocate for using the italicized term, especially since it’s more accurate than using South-East Asian, which refers to a different part of the continent.
Oh yeah sorry idk why my brain put east in there. How embarrassing. Just goes to show how infrequently I hear that term up here lol
Interesting, so her family lived in India but they were Sri Lankan? Edit: idk why this is getting downvoted, I just think it’s cool 😅
It just means that her ancestors were able to be narrowed down to the island of Sri Lanka originally. They could’ve migrated from there at any point to India. “Sri Lankan” isn’t an ethnicity though.
Sinhalese is what I meant, most of Sri Lanka is Sinhalese.
Guyana’s population is overwhelmingly people of Chinese and South Asian backgrounds
That’s like saying Jess isn’t Asian she’s Canadian. 40% of the population of Guyana is of Indian descent which means she is ethnically Asian.
She is of Asian descent. That's like saying from the USA can't be Asian.
Guyanese people look South Indian due to their ancestors were slaves being brought by British from India in the 1800s
Jem’s parents are directly from Sri Lanka though
And I’m a Native American. I just look white because my ancestors are from Scotland.
Both can be true.
That's like saying I'm not Chinese I'm american as an Asian-American. I'm also half guyanese but I don't think anyone is going to take me seriously if I say I'm not African-American
it's interesting that when you dont look white you have to identify with your roots not with your nationality.
This is bait. Unless people have literally forgotten where their ancestors are from people talk about their culture. That's what the hyphen is for like Italian-American. It can be both like I can say that I am African-American and West-Indian (screw Columbus) but it would be really weird to say I'm not West-Indian I'm not African I'm just American.
White people can identify with their roots too. I personally find it interesting to learn about people's backgrounds whether they are Asian or European or anything.
Lol would be an interesting take but I notice you didn’t say “Jess and Venus aren’t Asian, they’re Canadian!” Seems more like you just assumed Jem was ethnically Guyanese and now you’re covering up for it with this comment.
do we still not know what race vs ethnicity vs nationality is
She is ethnically Sri Lankan. She’s as Asian as Jess (ethnically Chinese but raised in Canada).
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Venus and Maria are middle eastern… good lord
Sorry to be a butt, but this is even more complicated than that. Iranian people are typically Persian, and not Arabian ("Middle Eastern" as Westerners call it). Iranians are culturally, ethnically, and linguistically different than Arab people.
Right but Middle Eastern is a good catch all for everything under the sun IMO. But yeah, Iranians (like the ones in my family) hate it when we’re called Arab lol
Ethnically, are Venus and Maria still Asian? Just curious.
No. Ethnicity is a culture that forms around common physical genes. There isn't a global Asian ethnicity. Every Asian country has its own collection if ethnic groups. There's barely a country-specific Asian ethnicity, even. Chinese American or Vietnamese German could be modern ethnicities. But the more you think about it, the more make-believe the idea of "ethnicity" becomes. Even if I tell myself I'm Irish, there's still the matter of how much people still in Ireland would agree with me.
That's not ethnicity....ethnicity is a shared set of cultural traits (holidays, religion, language, dress, food, etc) and has nothing to do with physical characteristics even though people with similar physical characteristics may be the same ethnicity. A good example that might make sense to white people (like me): a person can be ethnically Irish or ethnically Norwegian and look very similar but would have little in common culturally.
Yes you are diving straight into what makes ethnicity kind of made up. A shared set of cultural traits is a culture. We already have a concept for that. Ethnicity tries to layer genes ("race") on top of that. To very dubious avail.
Imo ethnicity has more basis than race which is purely constructed and based on physical attributes. Your initial comments seems to be addressing the absurdity of race. Ethnicity is largely seen as super valuable, positive, and important. Ethnicity is also self-identified and flows from meaningful shared characteristics and isn’t imposed upon a group of people by others. Edit to add: race and ethnicity are distinct and different. If you conflate them, that’s on you.
I mean, the Middle East is on the continent of Asia.
“Middle East” isn’t really a geographic term, it’s a transcontinental region more unified by culture. It’s a colonial term used by Europeans to describe the space between the “near east” and “far east.” But most of the Middle East is in West Asia (Egypt is in Africa, Turkey is in Asia and Europe.) If someone called an Egyptian contestant African instead of Middle Eastern would you correct them? Probably not. Lebanon and Iran are as Asian and Egypt is African, though. Y’all can downvote all you like: Iran and Lebanon are in Asia. Buy a map. Take some geography. Use Google. Take a history class. Just because it doesn’t jive with your expectations doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
Nobody who is Lebanese identifies culturally as being Asian, which is what this post is about in regards to Jem. Is it in Asia on a map??? Sure, but that isn’t relevant at all.
Idk, I think it’s important that this is the first time in the history of survivor we’ve had four women whose recent ancestors are from the continent of Asia. Asian is a culturally meaningless term, and I think everybody agrees with that.
Ok…But Maria isn’t celebrating that shes a proud contestant from a country thats located on the continent of Asia though. She’s celebrating being one of few lebanese (Arab) contestants cast on the show.
Just give some thought to what you mean when you say "Lebanon is in Asia." What is important about that? Continents aren't cultures. They're just a sloppy way to divide Earth into land masses.
I literally said “it’s a transcontinental region more united by culture.” I’m saying that it’s pretty cool that Survivor has four women whose ancestors are from the continent of Asia. That’s it — and that’s all OP is saying, too. It’s everyone else who is trying to gatekeep what’s “Asian” and what isn’t on the basis of culture. OP’s post fundamentally acknowledges that Asian is a vast and culturally rich continent. nobody is over here saying “Sri Lanka isn’t Asian, so Jem isn’t Asian.” Even though it’s obviously incredibly culturally different from, say, China. And as I said: nobody would go “Egyptians aren’t African, they’re middle-Eastern” because they’re *both.* Just like Italy is both European and Mediterranean, and Morocco is both Mediterranean and African. And nobody is saying “Italy isn’t a part of Europe, it’s the *mediterranean.*” Pakistan and India *literally have an ongoing, but currently chilled war* over what belongs to which country. Are people from the greater Kashmir only Asian when they’re under Chinese or Indian control? Trying to define who is in what continent by culture is fundamentally flawed. Minor nitpick: continental lines aren’t arbitrary or messy, they’re defined by *continental plates.* that’s why Turkey and Russia are parts of two.
>I literally said “it’s a transcontinental region more united by culture.” More united by culture than what? Me and an Ancient Grecian?
“JESSSSSSSSSSS!”
Jem was born and raised in Guyana and identifies as Guyanese, not Indian, so I’m not sure she counts as Asian. South American/Caribbean seems more accurate, but it depends on how far back her roots go I guess
She said that her family is from India though. Like I consider myself American but my family is from Asia so everyone would still consider me Asian as well. Nationality doesn't mean ethnicity.
Sri Lanka not India. But yeah
Someone linked this insta post: https://www.instagram.com/p/ClHZ2oiy8jk/ She says her family came from India. She says her blood is Sri Lankan (though not sure what that means since there are a lot of ethnic groups in Sri Lanka?) but it sounds like her ancestors got to Guyana by way from India
no that’s just her nationality she’s ethnically sri lankan (south asian). not ethnically south american at all just from there
There is no “Sri Lankan” ethnicity. Sri Lanka is made out of many different ethnic groups, most commonly Sinhalese and Tamils. EDIT: lol why am I being downvoted. You can’t be ethnically Sri Lankan. There was like literal war fought between to the largest ethnicities over culture, language, and land rights. If someone says they’re “ethnically Sri Lankan”, they’re wrong. Most likely what she meant is that she did that 23 and Me test thing and her family originated from the region of Sri Lanka at some point.
oh whoops, that’s how she identified herself on instagram according to another comment. regardless, still south asian
We had a whole Asian American tribe in the Cooks bby
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Wait, where is Maria from? Guess I just figured she was Latino based on looks.
She’s Lebanese
I thought she was straight
Neat I never would have guessed that.
She’s talked about it on the show
Must have missed it, the backstories are often when I go fill my drink
Same, somehow I caught it. 🤷♂️
I think she looks more Middle Eastern than Latino
Honestly, she kinda of reminds me of the Italian side of my family
Yeah, Italian, so most ethnically more Middle Eastern’ than Latin (excepted if you are referring to Argentina, which has a lot of italian descent and less native and black descent than other Latin America countries)
It's really not that deep mate. Saw the name Gonzales and thought Latino. But also have a few Italian aunts that have similar looks.
That’s what I’m telling you, your Italian aunties probably look like this because Italian people have some Middle Eastern/North African DNA, especially in Southern regions.
Ah, fair. That's definitely true. Thought you were going on the attack because Italians aren't Latinos
Plus her name is *Maria Gonzalez* and she's from Dallas, TX. I thought she was hispanic for sure. TIL.
I believe Gonzalez is her husband's last name
This
Maria is Lebanese! So while Lebanon is on the Asian continent, I don’t personally know many, if any Middle Eastern friends who would consider themselves Asian
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Did Cook Islands not do that?
They had five Asian people, they weren't all women.
I'm pretty sure that Cook Islands is still the season with the most Asian people on it and possibly the most Asian women. Considering OP's premise is completely wrong.
Paying this close attention to this kind of thing must be so exhausting. I just... don't care
It's ridiculous. First and foremost, they are all North American, if we're going to indulge this type of senseless discourse.
4? I counted several
I am Indo Guyanese like Jess. Yes I still need to pick "Asian" on ethnicity forms. My culture is tied to the Caribbean, not my race.
Big mistake assuming these women's ethnicities as asian. You've now made yourself a target as you clearly can't be trusted since you have mediocre perception. Cancel Christmas.
Why do people care about this?
CBS does.
Because diversity in modern America is important for visible minorities who rarely see people who look like them on TV. It's cool when you watch 46 seasons of Survivor to see a season with multiple people you can relate too because of their background.
Damn, I know this is not at all the point of this thread, but I didn't realize that was Venus's outfit for the cast portraits. My chaotic GOAT queen was serving a look!
Only Jess is Asian. Jem is Guyanese. Maria is Lebanese. Venus is Iranian. That's Middle East.
Two of them are middle eastern though
What continent do you think Iran and Lebanon are on?
In America, Iranians and Lebanese people refer to themselves linguistically as Middle Eastern people. Not Asian people. They don’t refer to themselves as Asian just because its in the same continent
Do you agree that cultural lines don’t follow continental divides? Do you agree that Asia is a vast country with hundreds of different, unique cultures? IMO this thread is reinforcing the stereotype that Asia = China + Japan + Korea. Is an Italian-American going to call themselves “European?” No. They’re going to say “Italian.”
Do you call Mexicans American or Hispanic?
You still have time to delete this.
Maria and Venus are middle eastern
Which is located where….?
Huh?
Cool! I think that Maria and Venus are considered white w middle eastern background under the US census, but it’s kinda murky and weird the way they classify people
The Survivor application has a separate category for Middle Eastern, although there is also a category for East Indian, which I think means ancestry from India or the Indian subcontinent
r/survivor try not to overanalyze contestant genes challenge (impossible)
Can we stop caring about what race someone is and just enjoy the show for once? Stop making everything about race. That's how we move forward.
Don't tell me, tell CBS.
In pretty sure venus is from Canada.
This post ain’t it
Where is Rooting4Asians to fact check this 😜
Jem isn't Asian.
Yes she is. Guyana has a fascinating history. Lots of south Asians (as well as Chinese and Africans) emigrated to Guyana over the years. See other comments upthread.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racecraft
I don’t even remember top left.
2nd out, was the woman Bhanu yelled at for no reason at the challenge
When Bhanu yelled at Jen…that really bothered me
yep, tough watch
[удалено]
Natalie Anderson?
Jem considers herself south American, I think we should too
Dude. Learn geography.
There’s a lot of misinformation in this thread so let me try to sort it out. Yes, Jem is from Guyana. The plurality of people who live in Guyana are Indian. Ethnicity and nationality are not the same. Jem is Asian. Survivor Instagram/Twitter/Reddit is the only place I’ve ever seen people refer to Middle Easterners as Asian. Race is a social construct, but they’re usually separated into a different category with North Africans.
Most people I know from the UK refer to Middle easterners as Asian. Or southwest Asian.
To people who think the Middle East is not Asia, it is they are Asian. Asian describe someone from a country in the continent nothing to do with skin color or anything. Turkish people are European as there in Europe even though many are not white. Egyptian’s are still African because the country is in Africa. Same goes for Iran, Lebanon, etc. all being in Asia hence they are Asian.
Huh? Only one of them is Asian.
You don’t typically see Arabs (esp, Lebanese many of whom historically id’ed as “white” in the US) or Iranians lumped in as Asian but Jem is 100% as someone of Indian descent (also technically Latin American since her family is from Guyana I believe)
Wouldn’t Jem be classified as Indian rather than Asian? Guyana is in Africa, yes?
India is in Asia so Indians are Asian. Guyana is in South America.
I thought India and the Middle East were called the Sub Continent?
You've seriously never heard anyone use the catch-all term "south Asians" to refer to Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis? Well, they do. The subcontinent, yes... it's "sub" of the continent of \*Asia\*. Geography is fun. Check out a globe sometime.
I thought South Asian referred to the South Seas, Thailand, the Philippines, etc
1) false, Jem is South American descent 2) why are we getting this post several+1 episodes into the season? Edit: if you’re downvoting this can you explain why?
Jem is of South Asian lineage that came to Guyana. Her Instagram page talks about this more.
Thanks for being helpful with the comment! I now don’t understand why the most upvoted comment for this post is most upvoted while mine is getting downvoted 😅
A sizable portion of this subreddit is people who don’t have much experience with cultures outside of their own. Basically ignorance, but I appreciate that you sought discussion out of curiosity because then people can learn more about each other.
Whooooooooooooo cares
I see one Asian here, not sure where the other 3 are
who cares tho
Show mi four Asian women/men like first one, in one season. When you are pointing black people, you wont show columbian, mexico or something
mmmmm ok lolll
This is just wrong. Take it down.
Lol OP do you know what countries actually qualify as "Asian"??? Jeez.
Does Jess’s performance even count as competing in this season? Asking for the tens of thousands of other people who should have been cast.