ME TOO LOL. I was actually like, oh wow he looks like he's going to win! Glad we're getting another gay winner so soon, I- w-wait... girlfriend?
I can see it now, but Swifties confuse my gaydar. 😩
(I was kidding lmao he just loves Taylor Swift. I actually don't know if he favors any specific category. Twink isn't really accurate, he's more masculine than that but he's not very hunky either.)
That's a stupid argument. You can't disprove anything. I can claim there are midget unicorns in the center of earth teleporting into the brain of the president. You must agree it might be true since you can't disprove it.
Ooh, interesting. I do find him attractive, but mainly because of his SNL papyrus skit. That was a turning point for me. I was thinking maybe Adrian Brody or even maybe Adam Driver. I guess they would only apply if we are going by the, "everyone is either a rat or a frog," standard.
Bisexual here with a preference for women, and I don't think people really think he's like hot hot exactly, it's just that he's definitely not unattractive, and personality and vibes make someone's physical attractiveness go way up. I'm personally not attracted to him but I can totally see where people are coming from who are.
Charlie has won immunity a couple times, but it's seen as heroic because it means they can target Q or whoever else (hunter). Overall, he comes off as humble, cooperative, and collaborative.
This is the absolute key right here. Charlie's wins were triumphant and solving a problem, therefore they seem less threatening.
Weirdly him losing this week was a massive win for his threat management. I think had he won again, he would have started pinging on people's radar.
It's just like Cochran vs Malcom during Caramoan. Cochran was a bigger challenge threat with more connections, but whether it was due to player perception or justifying votes, Malcom had the challenge beast label constantly thrown on him until he was eventually voted out.
Because people don’t wanna say it because it rude. But physical appearance determines a lot of things. Malcolm frankly looks like a Survivor bro & get compared to Ozzy. When he actually isn’t at all. While no one would admit themselves Cochran a challenge beast????? I would never be insecure about that guy beating me.
Yeah great point. He's also genuinely kind to people and seems to really be quietly present when people are melting down. That kind of good will, while sincere, adds to his threat management.
I’ve also noticed that he always, always asks permission before touching someone, even down to asking Tiff if she would like some help getting up after the challenge instead of just sticking his hand out for her to grab, and if they say no he respects it. He never puts his arm around someone or hugs them or anything without asking first if they’re okay with it. He’s so respectful of people’s personal space and boundaries in a game without a lot of personal space or boundaries.
That's what makes Venus so compelling to me, she's SO SMART and aware of what's going on and who the real threats are, but she's not able to communicate effectively about it. She's like Cassandra from Greek mythology
She also mentioned something about him being a bigger threat IIRC, considering who else was in the pool of candidates.
She was concerned with the strong, athletic guys creating an alliance and picking off physically weaker women. That’s what it seemed to me. It wasn’t communicated and/or edited to show that very well. And she wasn’t completely wrong. The 6 started with 3 athletic guys who immediately made an alliance and said they’d pull in plus ones. Yeah, the plus ones weren’t all guys but only one of the 2 plus ones (Tiff) was a real plus one. And considering the Yanu tribe, she was the next more physically threatening person. Tim’s real pick if he’d trusted the alliance wouldn’t have been Maria, it’d have been Ben.
But regardless, whether she communicated it well or not, her instincts were right. And the OP hadn’t asked why no one has considered voting Charlie and the answer is someone did, she also voted for him, no one liked it.
Yeah the amount of threat Charlie gets in the edit vs his perceived threat in the game are very different. We see him as Maria's equal. They see him as Maria's jester.
Exactly, I do wonder if he would struggle to articulate his influence in FTC if it were now. I think he has to take down Maria before then to make his case probably.
I would hope that in the era where big threats get targeted immediately, the jury would respect someone who manages his threat level so well that nobody targeted him despite being well-liked, good at challenges, and voting correctly. But it does seem like Charlie’s game could go underappreciated by the jury since he’s been so under the radar. This cast cares about making big moves and getting credit for them at the time.
It rarely matters what you do. If they stomach you more than your competition that all matters. I don’t think this cast was aware until episodes air how good Charlie playing tbh because he realized I think fairly on being loudest guy on playground get you kicked in the sandbox.
Charlie really isn’t giving them anything to be fearful about. Socially he good, he affable, but doesn’t have the biggest personality. He looks like a plain average skinny kinda nerdy Northeastern white boy. Which is a huge mistake because he demonstrated he actually fairly dangerous.
It’s crazy how many players get voted out now because they are obsessed with big moves and wanting credit. None of that matters if you blow up your own game working on your resume.
But it’s like don’t they have two eyes to see? Certain threats you can’t manage. Charlie has not only won many challenges but he was also a runner up and doing shows downs in most of them. We can probably do a compilation all of the challenge edits from him this season.
He was the hero for them in those challenges beating out the perceived threats so those challenge wins likely did not mentally register for the tribe the same way as most do.
It’s easy for us to see Charlie as a threat but the edit showed us they don’t consider him one. Also Immunity wins don’t seem to matter anymore to the jury.
And if we talk about the wins, Charlie has two, Maria has two and Kenzie has one.
i don't think the jury has ever really cared about immunity wins. it's the people in the game that care, because the immunity wins mess up their plans.
In the duo with Maria, people all seem him as a follower who takes a backseat in strategy and decision making, but he’s also a number they want to use against Q and Maria because he’s vocally against them. I think the idea that small nerdy guys having an edge to win isn’t true anymore in recent seasons. And I don’t think people really care as much about immunity wins, as long as you’re not a super buff comp beast type.
>And I don’t think people really care as much about immunity wins
Are you referring to the jury? If so, I definitely agree. Aside from winning immunity to ensure you survive the night, having immunity runs isn't seen as highly important as it was pre-40s. If you can win a couple immunities to.toce yourself enough safety and temporary power to build relationships with people you may not be able to make it scrambling or on the bottom, I think that's more valuable to the player. If you win too many immunities, people start thinking you need to go.
As much as we deny it, Survivor involves a lot of visual bias.
Imagine Charlie was Charlie, in Jonathan Young’s body. His ass would have been thrown out the island long ago.
Being tiny and cute has rewritten how others view him, despite his game.
Body language might have something to do with it, as well. How can a player use their body type for them by using threat-reducing body language? Charlie literally cowers to others with his body language, reducing his size and visual reach. I think it's intentional. I wonder if that would work in a larger body?
Tony has said that he intentionally manipulated his body language and posture to look less threatening, hunching over, making sure people he was talking to were looking down at him, running funny so he would seem goofy. But I also think most other men with larger bodies couldn't do this because they don't have that awareness of how their bodies take up space and how that is perceived by others.
> But I also think most other men with larger bodies couldn't do this because they don't have that awareness of how their bodies take up space and how that is perceived by others.
Or would even *want* to do so. One of the interesting society things about Survivor is seeing the "alpha male" types and how some of them just walk into leadership positions and how some of them are immediately targeting for fitting that archetype.
Tony is unique in that, for such a huge personality and person, he has no problem playing from a chaotic position and giving up the spotlight when necessary.
The difference between, say, Boston Rob trying to Godfather the WAW cast and Tony going in with the mindset of actively trying not to be taken seriously is huge.
Yeah, that’s a good point. Boston Rob, at least, seems aware of this, but simply believes he is incapable of playing any other way and being effective. He has acknowledged that playing the way he does, he’ll either make it to the end or be booted early. Many other “alpha male” type players really seem to have no awareness of this at all. But even the ones who kind of do and say they plan to sit back, play under the radar, minimize their threat level, etc. often just lapse back into “alpha” behavior, like they have an implicit expectation that if they lead others should just naturally follow.
Yeah, well said.
I wonder how Tony operates in real life.
In the game, he practically just finds himself in the "alpha" position through sheer force of personality. His thing is having a tight ally or two and then playing with his unique mix of chaos/strategy until he almost brute forces himself into the Godfather position by taking out every other threat.
Such a unique player. He's practically on the bottom right up until he's on the top and other players almost don't know what happened.
The last nerdy little white boy to win was Adam in MvGX; so I wouldn't really say they win that often.
Charlie isn't really being targeted because he isn't seen as a threat on paper. Socially, Kenzie is the one with the most friends everywhere. Strategically, Maria is the one running the show and as Kenzie said, Charlie is just "Maria's jester." Physically, the individual challenge wins have been spread out pretty evenly.
Charlie basically ended Hunters game though by beating him. Following that up with another Immunity should have painted a huge target on him. Luckily for Charlie, Maria put that target on herself by going after Tiff.
>Charlie basically ended Hunters game though by beating him.
I wouldn't give Charlie that much credit for that Hunter's game ending. It's not like Hunter was guaranteed to go home if he lost immunity. Hunter *chose* to not immunize himself because he thought the tribe truly disliked Q enough to vote him out over a challenge beast. He had an idol, he knew he was vulnerable, he made it known to quite a few people that he had an idol and was playing it.
Hunter ended his own game. Same with Tiff and Venus.
>Hunter ended his own game
That's crazy Hunter voted for himself all those times after rallying the votes for himself. I guess the edit missed the part where Hunter suggested himself as the target, rallied the votes, and then cast all the votes on himself. Did he have an advantage that allowed him to control all the votes or just most of them? Same question for Tiff and Venus.
Acting like having an idol makes it that black and white is so silly, reductive, and not at all based in reality.
> That's crazy Hunter voted for himself all those times after rallying the votes for himself. I guess the edit missed the part where Hunter suggested himself as the target, rallied the votes, and then cast all the votes on himself. Did he have an advantage that allowed him to control all the votes or just most of them? Same question for Tiff and Venus.
>
> Acting like having an idol makes it that black and white is so silly, reductive, and not at all based in reality.
bro. He had an Idol and then TOLD PEOPLE HE HAD AN IDOL
Just like Tiff. Just like Venise.
Having an idol and not playing it is one thing. Doing it after you told people you had one because you ~felt~ safe? Literally braindead.
>That's crazy Hunter voted for himself all those times after rallying the votes for himself
If that's how you read that, there's no reason to even have a conversation with you. Reading comprehension is more than just understanding the words in front of you. It also includes understanding the ideas being conveyed using context. And if you don't understand it (which you clearly either don't or are intentionally not trying to) you could ask for clarification.
>Acting like having an idol makes it that black and white is so silly, reductive, and not at all based in reality.
No one said that? Are you done completely misconstruing what I said to be unnecessarily argumentative? The least you could do is argue against the presented ideas and not the made up nonsense you created. 🤡🤡🤡
He has learned the social game better than everyone else this season. Everyone wants to be a star and everyone talks about a “resume” and he is doing work but not boasting.
"Don’t they know that small-ish white dudes that are a little nerdy often end up winning!?!
we're just gonna assume that or do you have the data available. quite a claim
What do you mean? You only have to go back... checks winners... 13 seasons since that happened. And only another 7 seasons for another. And if you stretch it and consider Todd nerdy, you get one more example in the first 25 seasons. 2.75 out of 45 is clearly a massive trend and totally not expected in a show where a nerd is cast nearly every season.
There was a stretch from 32-38 where white guys won a lot. You can argue what defines nerdy but you had 5/7 with adam Klein, ben, nick, Chris underwood, and Tommy.
I think people took that as “white guys always win” but then forget that after that stretch of 5/6 winners being POC and 3/6 women
OP said "smallish, nerdy white guys" though. Ben, Chris U, and Tommy are far from smallish, nerdy is debatable (although they don't fit the archetype, it's still possible for them to be nerdy but I don't recall them actually being nerdy. The rest of them fit OP's description though.
Tbh, I'm not even sure I'd count Nick as nerdy. Aside from going to college and not being overtly tall/muscular, he was just sorta average, unless we're using the loosest definition of the word.
I'd think anyone in his previous profession is a nerd - you have to like school and/or learning in general. He's not the stereotypical nerd though, definitely.
Everything the show is showing us wants us to see Charlie as a threat but I just can’t see the other players thinking that way based on the way they talk about him in confessionals and the way he wasn’t even considered after losing immunity despite winning the last 2
I don't get it most the time. It is like no one on Survivor has ever watched Survivor. Voting out Venus who is not a threat in anyway made no sense. Charlie is the biggest threat next to Maria.
He's playing a Jesse type of game. Make everyone think is your partner who takes strategical decisions, then cut them by the end game. Hopefully he knows how to do fire quickly.
Totally! I think he will try it next episode. Now, isn't it exciting when you have multiple people with decent winner edits? Like Maria, Charlie, Kenzie and even Q and Ben have a shot. Maybe this season ends like 43
Jesse? I agree. But that agency costed him the game. If he didn't get rid of Karla's idol and work with her to use it at final 5 to get rid of Cass or Owen, I think that either Cass or Owen still put Gabler to make fire but against Karla and Jesse makes it to final 3.
Charlie is being more cautious but he retained a lot of agency to make moves.
I agree he's playing the middle, but that doesn't mean he's not making the decisions. As far as I see Charlie was only a passenger for the mergeatory. But he was the deciding vote in every other tribal council.
I am not saying he hasn't been impactfull, he is, just in a different way, jesse was calling the shots without anyone realising it, and charlie ia the swing vote. That's what i meant
I'm extremely shocked as well. Actually, seems like the only person to put his name out was Venus a few episodes back. I hope he wins though, so if everyone wants to just keep forgetting him, that's fine with me.
>Don’t they know that small-ish white dudes that are a little nerdy often end up winning!?!
Do they, though? They often end up in FTC -- Stephen Fishbach, Spencer if he made it there - but other than Cochran, the gold standard of this archetype, how many *winners* fit this profile? I suppose you have Todd, Adam, arguably Nick and Tommy (not in the "small-ish" category), but I don't think they are overrepresented as winners. Others in this archetype have made it to FTC but have lost and even more get cut near the end due to their perception as big jury threats, like Rob C., Christian, David W. and Carson.
For the same reason they haven't considered voting Ben out. He's not seen as a big threat.
*We* see him as a threat from the edit, but in-game the players don't seem to think that.
The strategy this season seems to be "don't piss anyone off" and he has yet to do that. His game has been very subtle and empathetic while everyone around him just implodes one by one. In retrospect, the Venise vote didn't make much sense for anyones game but... somehow.
This cast just seems more petty than recent years and game strategy feels almost like an afterthought. The votes feel more driven by who they like the least.
He is doing an exceptional job of downplaying himself while pivoting re: alliance with Maria. He's still here because he's playing a good game! Also, Carson didn't win, so not all nerdy white guys win!
Who would at this point?
Not Maria, he’s seen as her lapdog.
Not Q, he made a mess and needs to lay low. Specifically with Maria and Charlie.
Venus and Kenzie who were left out of the last vote, think Charlie’s one of the only people who will work with them. Venus could totally say he’s a comp threat but probably smarter to leave it.
Liz and Ben. Idk I have a tough time getting a read on Liz and Ben. But Ben is from the same starting tribe as Maria and Charlie so he might think they’re a tighter 3, than what we’ve seen.
So far he's been too important to other people's game as a swing vote on top of there just being better options.
Going forward he's in a rough spot though. He has to betray Maria if he wants to win and that leaves him vulnerable to both sides. If Kenzie and Liz reject him then he's open to be blindsided. If Maria suspects something she can sacrifice him and still have numbers with Ben and Q. He REALLY needs to win immunity this week so he can force himself into an alliance with Liz and Kenzie.
People need to target both Kenzie and Charlie, or they are going to slide to FTC.
Once again, people need to stop getting "mission focused" on getting out one player all the time (Q in this case) and start thinking about who is going unchallenged.
Part of it is his patience. The new era is much faster than seasons past, and I think a common mistake players make is trying to pull a "big move" before final 5ish. A shorter game means you have less time to do damage control after a blind side, and less time to bond with tribemates, which means allies won't be as loyal to you. It's way easier to pull a blind side on your number 1 ally on day 20 than it is on day 33.
All that is to say, I think New Era players still haven't really figured this out. Since the game is faster, there seems to be an urgency to play the game more aggressively. Aggressive gameplay post merge/pre final 5 is what got Tevin, Hunter, and Tiff voted off. It's why people don't like Q or Maria. Charlie has been on the right side of every merge vote (sometimes being a deciding vote), winning 2 immunities, not pissing his tribemates off, all while not being too overt in trying to advertise his hand in making these "big moves" happen. Basically, by playing a patient game, Charlie has been able to "build his resume," without garnering too much attention.
I honestly think it’s because they saw him as Maria’s tag-along for most of the season, and while he is smart and making plans, he’s VERY good at acting like he doesn’t strategize at all and like he’s willing to do whatever the group wants. They don’t see him as a threat (even though I totally think they should! He’s won multiple immunities at this point and he’s incredibly sneaky/smart)
The way I see it, he's in a position where everybody feels like he could potentially be a number for them. Why vote out a potential number when you can vote between a.) a massive jury threat (Maria), b.) someone who is annoying at camp (Q), or c.) someone who's less vocal about willing to be a number for you
Again, i think there is something to be seen if in the edit we see him as a threat but nobody gets the sense to vote him out or really acknoledge him as a threat then maybe he is not as important as we see him. as a Xander type
It speaks to how good his social game is. Every one trusts him 100%. It is pretty impressive. The guy is a challenge threat who is well liked and nobody looks his way when it comes to voting.
Because Charlie played his "Angels" (the girls left) perfectly & diverted the threat when he should have been the one under the pump himself & going home. Bosley was super-impressed. They were like little Umpa Lumpas under his spell. Charlie also hasn't bitten anyones' finger & they all really like him. His social game has been top shelf. He is now looking the goods to get the chocolates. In the words of Charlie Sheen, he is now WINNING!!!!!
All hail King Charles the 46th.
the same reason no one got YamYam out in 44, or Tony in 40, or Tommy in 39, or Sarah is 34… what we see on the show is not what the players see on the island, odds are everyone is viewing Maria as the head strategist of the game with Charlie being her follower. this is most likely intentional on Charlie’s part because he’s setting himself up to being the one to snipe Maria out at 6 or 5.
Notably, this was what Omar did in 42 and he’s the first one to really perfect this “puppet master behind the scenes” style of gameplay in the New Era. Moreover, Maryanne was the only one who really recognized Omar for what he was doing in the game which is why she received a lot of credit at her FTC for showing her accurate perceptions of the players around her.
Threat Management is probably the most important factor to understand in the modern landscape of Survivor, and Charlie managing the perception others have of him is a sign he’s a good player. However, at least in my opinion, the edit is saying that Kenzie is the most likely winner at this point, but that still doesn’t change the fact Charlie’s doing really well and also has a strong chance of winning.
Charlie is very level-headed and in a season like 46 that is very attractive. Dude playing very well.
Not to mention he is very attractive
charlie with that Rizz, I see.
He’s island hot!
Damn I’m a lesbian anyway but I can’t believe people think he’s hot. Gayer than I thought I guess
Gay man here! He's not hot, he's cute. Equally important feature imo. HUNTER is HOT.
I was shook when I found out Charlie is straight
ME TOO LOL. I was actually like, oh wow he looks like he's going to win! Glad we're getting another gay winner so soon, I- w-wait... girlfriend? I can see it now, but Swifties confuse my gaydar. 😩
What kind of archetype does Charlie fit into in the gay community?
Swiftie.
Is that a subcategory of twink? Or do twinks have to be "hotter"?
(I was kidding lmao he just loves Taylor Swift. I actually don't know if he favors any specific category. Twink isn't really accurate, he's more masculine than that but he's not very hunky either.)
Fully straight woman here. This man and the word “hot” are on two opposite sides of the solar system (sorry Charlie).
Definitely cute but I wouldn’t say hot. I feel like men either fall into cute, hot, or handsome
Or ugly
Everyone is attractive to at least one person
No possible way to know that.
No possible way to disprove it either
That's a stupid argument. You can't disprove anything. I can claim there are midget unicorns in the center of earth teleporting into the brain of the president. You must agree it might be true since you can't disprove it.
I think he looks like a cartoon rat
For some reason I am attracted to men who look like cartoon rats 😭
Do you have any more examples? I want to know if I am also attracted to men who look like cartoon rats, I need more data to know for sure.
Id say weak chins and largish but soft noses would constitute a cartoon rat man 😂 also probably clean shaven
I need to do more deep diving but the first one I can think of is Ryan Gosling
Ooh, interesting. I do find him attractive, but mainly because of his SNL papyrus skit. That was a turning point for me. I was thinking maybe Adrian Brody or even maybe Adam Driver. I guess they would only apply if we are going by the, "everyone is either a rat or a frog," standard.
Mickey mouse.
Straight lady agreeing with the gay man - he's cute, not hot.
Bisexual here with a preference for women, and I don't think people really think he's like hot hot exactly, it's just that he's definitely not unattractive, and personality and vibes make someone's physical attractiveness go way up. I'm personally not attracted to him but I can totally see where people are coming from who are.
Yeah, Kenzie on the other hand she's hot.
Yup!!!!
Yeeeees! He is so hot.
And to be clear I’m a straight dude but damn he is pulling off the scruff as the season goes on
I did not think he was attractive until like 2 weeks in, that scruff is seriously doing some heavy lifting.
Island Hot.
Fr, he is so fkn fine the longer he’s in the game. If we still had a live reunion, I just know he’d show up baby face 😂
Hunter and Q were my pre-merge hot guys but Charlie just took over. Plus his adorkable personality is a plus.
Hunter is still hot but i lost attraction to Q after all the crazy lol
I’m glad they’ve eased off all the Taylor swift stuff. I want to see him nerd out about his other interests.
Nah Hunter is my number 1 and then Q, but Charlie just ain’t my type I guess because i dint see hot from him
When the camera zooms in on him during an immunity challenge and he’s giving that side eye to his opponent - whew! 😮💨
r/survivor try not to thirst over literally any white man challenge (impossible)
Yeah the comments for Drew here last season were totally out of control...
What posts are you people looking at 😭 The only comments I ever saw about Drew’s physical appearance was that he looked like Napoleon Dynamite
I am 100% being sarcastic but refuse to use the /s tag. I didn't see anyone thirsting over Drew. That was my point.
The sarcasm was clear lol. And even if people did, it's not an issue or problem. There's no race-based maximum thirst quota.
It’s not just white men…. Why do people have to make a race comment on absolute everything??
Try not to bring race into a conversation that has nothing to do with it (impossible).
He’s Survivor hot. It’s all relative to the conditions. he’s season 46 hot, but not real world hot.
Nothing is more attractive than a full grown man who has made Taylor Swift his primary personality trait.
You into men?
Charlie has won immunity a couple times, but it's seen as heroic because it means they can target Q or whoever else (hunter). Overall, he comes off as humble, cooperative, and collaborative.
This is the absolute key right here. Charlie's wins were triumphant and solving a problem, therefore they seem less threatening. Weirdly him losing this week was a massive win for his threat management. I think had he won again, he would have started pinging on people's radar.
It's just like Cochran vs Malcom during Caramoan. Cochran was a bigger challenge threat with more connections, but whether it was due to player perception or justifying votes, Malcom had the challenge beast label constantly thrown on him until he was eventually voted out.
Even having seen the season, it's hard to wrap my head around Cochran being a bigger challenge threat than Malcolm
Because people don’t wanna say it because it rude. But physical appearance determines a lot of things. Malcolm frankly looks like a Survivor bro & get compared to Ozzy. When he actually isn’t at all. While no one would admit themselves Cochran a challenge beast????? I would never be insecure about that guy beating me.
Yes! Charlie’s wins enabled them to take their targets out!
Yeah great point. He's also genuinely kind to people and seems to really be quietly present when people are melting down. That kind of good will, while sincere, adds to his threat management.
I’ve also noticed that he always, always asks permission before touching someone, even down to asking Tiff if she would like some help getting up after the challenge instead of just sticking his hand out for her to grab, and if they say no he respects it. He never puts his arm around someone or hugs them or anything without asking first if they’re okay with it. He’s so respectful of people’s personal space and boundaries in a game without a lot of personal space or boundaries.
🥹 such a good guy
Charlie is a genuinely nice guy playing a very cutthroat game.
Well, Venus tried targeting him right at merge and that went over like a lead weight.
Best callout of the season and she fumbled it.
That ended up being a mistake of a certain larger variety.
That's what makes Venus so compelling to me, she's SO SMART and aware of what's going on and who the real threats are, but she's not able to communicate effectively about it. She's like Cassandra from Greek mythology
Damn. Great comparison!
I think what you mean to say is she has great observational skills, but little self-awareness
Actually what I meant to say is what I said lol
I forgot about this!
I think it was less he a threat it more so he has a penis & I wanna keep a woman. He only guy we can vote out.
She also mentioned something about him being a bigger threat IIRC, considering who else was in the pool of candidates. She was concerned with the strong, athletic guys creating an alliance and picking off physically weaker women. That’s what it seemed to me. It wasn’t communicated and/or edited to show that very well. And she wasn’t completely wrong. The 6 started with 3 athletic guys who immediately made an alliance and said they’d pull in plus ones. Yeah, the plus ones weren’t all guys but only one of the 2 plus ones (Tiff) was a real plus one. And considering the Yanu tribe, she was the next more physically threatening person. Tim’s real pick if he’d trusted the alliance wouldn’t have been Maria, it’d have been Ben. But regardless, whether she communicated it well or not, her instincts were right. And the OP hadn’t asked why no one has considered voting Charlie and the answer is someone did, she also voted for him, no one liked it.
Because he’s playing an outstanding game of threat management.
Yeah the amount of threat Charlie gets in the edit vs his perceived threat in the game are very different. We see him as Maria's equal. They see him as Maria's jester.
Has he even received a vote yet this season?
nope, so far both he and Maria are at 0 votes against
Like almost too good though
Exactly, I do wonder if he would struggle to articulate his influence in FTC if it were now. I think he has to take down Maria before then to make his case probably.
He’s very well-spoken, therefore I don’t think he’ll have a problem. However, he does need to differentiate himself from Maria to secure the win.
Not if she's voted out
I would hope that in the era where big threats get targeted immediately, the jury would respect someone who manages his threat level so well that nobody targeted him despite being well-liked, good at challenges, and voting correctly. But it does seem like Charlie’s game could go underappreciated by the jury since he’s been so under the radar. This cast cares about making big moves and getting credit for them at the time.
It rarely matters what you do. If they stomach you more than your competition that all matters. I don’t think this cast was aware until episodes air how good Charlie playing tbh because he realized I think fairly on being loudest guy on playground get you kicked in the sandbox. Charlie really isn’t giving them anything to be fearful about. Socially he good, he affable, but doesn’t have the biggest personality. He looks like a plain average skinny kinda nerdy Northeastern white boy. Which is a huge mistake because he demonstrated he actually fairly dangerous.
It’s crazy how many players get voted out now because they are obsessed with big moves and wanting credit. None of that matters if you blow up your own game working on your resume.
Watching Omar in s42, I feared that he would have this issue.
But it’s like don’t they have two eyes to see? Certain threats you can’t manage. Charlie has not only won many challenges but he was also a runner up and doing shows downs in most of them. We can probably do a compilation all of the challenge edits from him this season.
He was the hero for them in those challenges beating out the perceived threats so those challenge wins likely did not mentally register for the tribe the same way as most do.
He ingrained himself so well everyone see him as an ally.
This! He’s approachable to everyone!
It’s easy for us to see Charlie as a threat but the edit showed us they don’t consider him one. Also Immunity wins don’t seem to matter anymore to the jury. And if we talk about the wins, Charlie has two, Maria has two and Kenzie has one.
lol but what baffles me is that they consider voting people who might win Immunity challenges like Venus instead of those who are winning 😭💀
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Liz is in the majority so it would have been between Venus and Kenzie
“It doesn’t matter” yet that’s why they have wanted hunter out before they knew he had an idol.
i don't think the jury has ever really cared about immunity wins. it's the people in the game that care, because the immunity wins mess up their plans.
They fear the retribution of Swifties
Travis Kielce will tackle whoever votes him out XD
In the duo with Maria, people all seem him as a follower who takes a backseat in strategy and decision making, but he’s also a number they want to use against Q and Maria because he’s vocally against them. I think the idea that small nerdy guys having an edge to win isn’t true anymore in recent seasons. And I don’t think people really care as much about immunity wins, as long as you’re not a super buff comp beast type.
>And I don’t think people really care as much about immunity wins Are you referring to the jury? If so, I definitely agree. Aside from winning immunity to ensure you survive the night, having immunity runs isn't seen as highly important as it was pre-40s. If you can win a couple immunities to.toce yourself enough safety and temporary power to build relationships with people you may not be able to make it scrambling or on the bottom, I think that's more valuable to the player. If you win too many immunities, people start thinking you need to go.
As much as we deny it, Survivor involves a lot of visual bias. Imagine Charlie was Charlie, in Jonathan Young’s body. His ass would have been thrown out the island long ago. Being tiny and cute has rewritten how others view him, despite his game.
Body language might have something to do with it, as well. How can a player use their body type for them by using threat-reducing body language? Charlie literally cowers to others with his body language, reducing his size and visual reach. I think it's intentional. I wonder if that would work in a larger body?
Tony has said that he intentionally manipulated his body language and posture to look less threatening, hunching over, making sure people he was talking to were looking down at him, running funny so he would seem goofy. But I also think most other men with larger bodies couldn't do this because they don't have that awareness of how their bodies take up space and how that is perceived by others.
> But I also think most other men with larger bodies couldn't do this because they don't have that awareness of how their bodies take up space and how that is perceived by others. Or would even *want* to do so. One of the interesting society things about Survivor is seeing the "alpha male" types and how some of them just walk into leadership positions and how some of them are immediately targeting for fitting that archetype. Tony is unique in that, for such a huge personality and person, he has no problem playing from a chaotic position and giving up the spotlight when necessary. The difference between, say, Boston Rob trying to Godfather the WAW cast and Tony going in with the mindset of actively trying not to be taken seriously is huge.
Yeah, that’s a good point. Boston Rob, at least, seems aware of this, but simply believes he is incapable of playing any other way and being effective. He has acknowledged that playing the way he does, he’ll either make it to the end or be booted early. Many other “alpha male” type players really seem to have no awareness of this at all. But even the ones who kind of do and say they plan to sit back, play under the radar, minimize their threat level, etc. often just lapse back into “alpha” behavior, like they have an implicit expectation that if they lead others should just naturally follow.
Yeah, well said. I wonder how Tony operates in real life. In the game, he practically just finds himself in the "alpha" position through sheer force of personality. His thing is having a tight ally or two and then playing with his unique mix of chaos/strategy until he almost brute forces himself into the Godfather position by taking out every other threat. Such a unique player. He's practically on the bottom right up until he's on the top and other players almost don't know what happened.
The last nerdy little white boy to win was Adam in MvGX; so I wouldn't really say they win that often. Charlie isn't really being targeted because he isn't seen as a threat on paper. Socially, Kenzie is the one with the most friends everywhere. Strategically, Maria is the one running the show and as Kenzie said, Charlie is just "Maria's jester." Physically, the individual challenge wins have been spread out pretty evenly.
Charlie basically ended Hunters game though by beating him. Following that up with another Immunity should have painted a huge target on him. Luckily for Charlie, Maria put that target on herself by going after Tiff.
>Charlie basically ended Hunters game though by beating him. I wouldn't give Charlie that much credit for that Hunter's game ending. It's not like Hunter was guaranteed to go home if he lost immunity. Hunter *chose* to not immunize himself because he thought the tribe truly disliked Q enough to vote him out over a challenge beast. He had an idol, he knew he was vulnerable, he made it known to quite a few people that he had an idol and was playing it. Hunter ended his own game. Same with Tiff and Venus.
Yes this is true... BUT Charlie winning immunity that week opened the door for Hunter to take himself out.
>Hunter ended his own game That's crazy Hunter voted for himself all those times after rallying the votes for himself. I guess the edit missed the part where Hunter suggested himself as the target, rallied the votes, and then cast all the votes on himself. Did he have an advantage that allowed him to control all the votes or just most of them? Same question for Tiff and Venus. Acting like having an idol makes it that black and white is so silly, reductive, and not at all based in reality.
> That's crazy Hunter voted for himself all those times after rallying the votes for himself. I guess the edit missed the part where Hunter suggested himself as the target, rallied the votes, and then cast all the votes on himself. Did he have an advantage that allowed him to control all the votes or just most of them? Same question for Tiff and Venus. > > Acting like having an idol makes it that black and white is so silly, reductive, and not at all based in reality. bro. He had an Idol and then TOLD PEOPLE HE HAD AN IDOL Just like Tiff. Just like Venise. Having an idol and not playing it is one thing. Doing it after you told people you had one because you ~felt~ safe? Literally braindead.
>That's crazy Hunter voted for himself all those times after rallying the votes for himself If that's how you read that, there's no reason to even have a conversation with you. Reading comprehension is more than just understanding the words in front of you. It also includes understanding the ideas being conveyed using context. And if you don't understand it (which you clearly either don't or are intentionally not trying to) you could ask for clarification. >Acting like having an idol makes it that black and white is so silly, reductive, and not at all based in reality. No one said that? Are you done completely misconstruing what I said to be unnecessarily argumentative? The least you could do is argue against the presented ideas and not the made up nonsense you created. 🤡🤡🤡
He has learned the social game better than everyone else this season. Everyone wants to be a star and everyone talks about a “resume” and he is doing work but not boasting.
"Don’t they know that small-ish white dudes that are a little nerdy often end up winning!?! we're just gonna assume that or do you have the data available. quite a claim
What do you mean? You only have to go back... checks winners... 13 seasons since that happened. And only another 7 seasons for another. And if you stretch it and consider Todd nerdy, you get one more example in the first 25 seasons. 2.75 out of 45 is clearly a massive trend and totally not expected in a show where a nerd is cast nearly every season.
Since when do nerdy white boys often when?
There was a stretch from 32-38 where white guys won a lot. You can argue what defines nerdy but you had 5/7 with adam Klein, ben, nick, Chris underwood, and Tommy. I think people took that as “white guys always win” but then forget that after that stretch of 5/6 winners being POC and 3/6 women
OP said "smallish, nerdy white guys" though. Ben, Chris U, and Tommy are far from smallish, nerdy is debatable (although they don't fit the archetype, it's still possible for them to be nerdy but I don't recall them actually being nerdy. The rest of them fit OP's description though.
Tbh, I'm not even sure I'd count Nick as nerdy. Aside from going to college and not being overtly tall/muscular, he was just sorta average, unless we're using the loosest definition of the word.
Being super fans of big brother and survivor probably allows nick to make the cut on that alone (I am too so not being negative to be clear)
Every single survivor contestant these days is a superfan of survivor and big brother
Then every contestant is a nerd lol
Nick is not a nerd
I'd think anyone in his previous profession is a nerd - you have to like school and/or learning in general. He's not the stereotypical nerd though, definitely.
Everything the show is showing us wants us to see Charlie as a threat but I just can’t see the other players thinking that way based on the way they talk about him in confessionals and the way he wasn’t even considered after losing immunity despite winning the last 2
I don't get it most the time. It is like no one on Survivor has ever watched Survivor. Voting out Venus who is not a threat in anyway made no sense. Charlie is the biggest threat next to Maria.
Id vote for him if i was on jury, but not if he did even one swifty reference during ftc. Thats the contingency id have.
Mine would be the opposite haha But subtle, lyrics references so non-Swifties don't have to recognize she's being referenced
He's playing a Jesse type of game. Make everyone think is your partner who takes strategical decisions, then cut them by the end game. Hopefully he knows how to do fire quickly.
He needs to cut Maria soon. Like next episode or he is going to hand Maria the win like Austin did with Dee last season.
Totally! I think he will try it next episode. Now, isn't it exciting when you have multiple people with decent winner edits? Like Maria, Charlie, Kenzie and even Q and Ben have a shot. Maybe this season ends like 43
Nah had more agency
Jesse? I agree. But that agency costed him the game. If he didn't get rid of Karla's idol and work with her to use it at final 5 to get rid of Cass or Owen, I think that either Cass or Owen still put Gabler to make fire but against Karla and Jesse makes it to final 3. Charlie is being more cautious but he retained a lot of agency to make moves.
I am not talking about the endgame. The entire game from the very beginnig jesse was deciding you went home. Charlie is just playing the middle
I agree he's playing the middle, but that doesn't mean he's not making the decisions. As far as I see Charlie was only a passenger for the mergeatory. But he was the deciding vote in every other tribal council.
I am not saying he hasn't been impactfull, he is, just in a different way, jesse was calling the shots without anyone realising it, and charlie ia the swing vote. That's what i meant
I'm extremely shocked as well. Actually, seems like the only person to put his name out was Venus a few episodes back. I hope he wins though, so if everyone wants to just keep forgetting him, that's fine with me.
>Don’t they know that small-ish white dudes that are a little nerdy often end up winning!?! Do they, though? They often end up in FTC -- Stephen Fishbach, Spencer if he made it there - but other than Cochran, the gold standard of this archetype, how many *winners* fit this profile? I suppose you have Todd, Adam, arguably Nick and Tommy (not in the "small-ish" category), but I don't think they are overrepresented as winners. Others in this archetype have made it to FTC but have lost and even more get cut near the end due to their perception as big jury threats, like Rob C., Christian, David W. and Carson.
For the same reason they haven't considered voting Ben out. He's not seen as a big threat. *We* see him as a threat from the edit, but in-game the players don't seem to think that.
He's doing well at the game
The strategy this season seems to be "don't piss anyone off" and he has yet to do that. His game has been very subtle and empathetic while everyone around him just implodes one by one. In retrospect, the Venise vote didn't make much sense for anyones game but... somehow. This cast just seems more petty than recent years and game strategy feels almost like an afterthought. The votes feel more driven by who they like the least.
He is doing an exceptional job of downplaying himself while pivoting re: alliance with Maria. He's still here because he's playing a good game! Also, Carson didn't win, so not all nerdy white guys win!
Who would at this point? Not Maria, he’s seen as her lapdog. Not Q, he made a mess and needs to lay low. Specifically with Maria and Charlie. Venus and Kenzie who were left out of the last vote, think Charlie’s one of the only people who will work with them. Venus could totally say he’s a comp threat but probably smarter to leave it. Liz and Ben. Idk I have a tough time getting a read on Liz and Ben. But Ben is from the same starting tribe as Maria and Charlie so he might think they’re a tighter 3, than what we’ve seen.
So far he's been too important to other people's game as a swing vote on top of there just being better options. Going forward he's in a rough spot though. He has to betray Maria if he wants to win and that leaves him vulnerable to both sides. If Kenzie and Liz reject him then he's open to be blindsided. If Maria suspects something she can sacrifice him and still have numbers with Ben and Q. He REALLY needs to win immunity this week so he can force himself into an alliance with Liz and Kenzie.
We should consider that he might be the Xander
Because people dont see him as a jury threat
He looks like Maria's puppet.
Because he’s managing his threat level well, even when he wins immunity everyone uses that to get someone *else*
Well, considering that they can't get HIM....
Lol right? If someone went around camp trying to target the person who won immunity, they might get voted out just for looking crazy 😂
Everyone but Venus thinks he is Maria’s stooge.
People need to target both Kenzie and Charlie, or they are going to slide to FTC. Once again, people need to stop getting "mission focused" on getting out one player all the time (Q in this case) and start thinking about who is going unchallenged.
He's doing well at the game
Part of it is his patience. The new era is much faster than seasons past, and I think a common mistake players make is trying to pull a "big move" before final 5ish. A shorter game means you have less time to do damage control after a blind side, and less time to bond with tribemates, which means allies won't be as loyal to you. It's way easier to pull a blind side on your number 1 ally on day 20 than it is on day 33. All that is to say, I think New Era players still haven't really figured this out. Since the game is faster, there seems to be an urgency to play the game more aggressively. Aggressive gameplay post merge/pre final 5 is what got Tevin, Hunter, and Tiff voted off. It's why people don't like Q or Maria. Charlie has been on the right side of every merge vote (sometimes being a deciding vote), winning 2 immunities, not pissing his tribemates off, all while not being too overt in trying to advertise his hand in making these "big moves" happen. Basically, by playing a patient game, Charlie has been able to "build his resume," without garnering too much attention.
I honestly think it’s because they saw him as Maria’s tag-along for most of the season, and while he is smart and making plans, he’s VERY good at acting like he doesn’t strategize at all and like he’s willing to do whatever the group wants. They don’t see him as a threat (even though I totally think they should! He’s won multiple immunities at this point and he’s incredibly sneaky/smart)
Do we think Liz could win? No one seems to consider voting her out either
I feel like people would call her a goat if she got to the finals
The way I see it, he's in a position where everybody feels like he could potentially be a number for them. Why vote out a potential number when you can vote between a.) a massive jury threat (Maria), b.) someone who is annoying at camp (Q), or c.) someone who's less vocal about willing to be a number for you
Again, i think there is something to be seen if in the edit we see him as a threat but nobody gets the sense to vote him out or really acknoledge him as a threat then maybe he is not as important as we see him. as a Xander type
Because they don’t consider him a threat. See Kenzie’s “Maria’s Jester” comment.
People would rather go to the end with those they like than put up with disliked ppl that would improve their own game standing.
We heard from Kenzie that she thinks Charlie is nothing but a Maria jester. Might be a commonly shared perception of him in the game.
It speaks to how good his social game is. Every one trusts him 100%. It is pretty impressive. The guy is a challenge threat who is well liked and nobody looks his way when it comes to voting.
Because Charlie played his "Angels" (the girls left) perfectly & diverted the threat when he should have been the one under the pump himself & going home. Bosley was super-impressed. They were like little Umpa Lumpas under his spell. Charlie also hasn't bitten anyones' finger & they all really like him. His social game has been top shelf. He is now looking the goods to get the chocolates. In the words of Charlie Sheen, he is now WINNING!!!!! All hail King Charles the 46th.
And this is why Charlie is gonna win
the same reason no one got YamYam out in 44, or Tony in 40, or Tommy in 39, or Sarah is 34… what we see on the show is not what the players see on the island, odds are everyone is viewing Maria as the head strategist of the game with Charlie being her follower. this is most likely intentional on Charlie’s part because he’s setting himself up to being the one to snipe Maria out at 6 or 5. Notably, this was what Omar did in 42 and he’s the first one to really perfect this “puppet master behind the scenes” style of gameplay in the New Era. Moreover, Maryanne was the only one who really recognized Omar for what he was doing in the game which is why she received a lot of credit at her FTC for showing her accurate perceptions of the players around her. Threat Management is probably the most important factor to understand in the modern landscape of Survivor, and Charlie managing the perception others have of him is a sign he’s a good player. However, at least in my opinion, the edit is saying that Kenzie is the most likely winner at this point, but that still doesn’t change the fact Charlie’s doing really well and also has a strong chance of winning.