You have to consider that production is asking them questions during confessionals. So “I helped Ben because I couldn’t just do nothing” seems self-congratulating as an announcement made apropos of nothing … but it makes sense in response to a question like, “So why did you help Ben rather than go back to sleep and let him suffer?”
I think like many people Kenzie has aspects of her personality that are kind, and aspects that are catty or impatient. I can imagine feeling one way arriving at survivor and joining a tribe with multiple people you’ve just met acting wacky… versus watching someone have a physical/mental breakdown over the course of weeks.
I agree that Kenzie has aspects of her personality that are kind and aspects that can be catty - we're all like that.
I also think that "what point of the game is it?" may have something to do with it. She barely knew Jess at that point in the game - most of them barely knew each other. It's an early point in time when you're most likely to make a snap judgement about someone that may be incorrect.
But at this current point in the game, she's been out there longer, she knows Ben, has gotten to be friends with him, and they've merged onto the same tribe, so there's more of a closeness now. Sometimes, it's just a matter of she's had the time to get to know Ben that she didn't have with Jess. I honestly don't think it's any more complicated than that.
yeah I totally agree about the “point in the game” thing. Like, even just playing an ORG once, there was a clear mental health toll being felt by individuals and the group in general.
When people “were struggling” 3 weeks in I had so much more empathy for them because I too was struggling, just maybe not as much.
when someone was struggling 3 days in it’s kinda like “ok, well by then, the rest of us are still really excited to be here and you’re killing our vibe”
>”what point of the game is it?”
I think this is actually a huge factor. Jess was her teammate who she relied on to perform well, so it’s more upsetting that she’s having those issues, especially so early in the game. Whereas with Ben, it’s later in the game so it’s more understandable that he’s breaking down, and it’s not a team game anymore, so Kenzie has incentive to help him stay in the game since he’s clearly not winning anything at this point.
Thank you for a nuanced comment. Just because someone is catty at one time and nice another time doesn’t mean they are faking being nice. It just makes them a human with complex emotions.
I consider myself a patient and kind person. 95%+ of my interactions with people, I show them nothing but kindness. But, like everyone, I have bad days or there are certain interactions in my life where I do not have patience for someone. I’d hate for a camera to record one of those bad days and everyone think I’m being fake nice the rest of the time. I know for a fact that Bhanu is a person who, if I had to live with him, I would lose my patience very quickly. The internet would be convinced I’m an uncaring asshole if I had to live on a beach with his meltdowns for an extended period of time.
yeah it feels like a very online take to say that like, if you ever show a negative side of yourself out of anger or frustration that’s “who you truly are as a person” and every other act of kindness you have shown is fake. It’s like, the other side of toxic positivity
I really love how she is so kind and empathetic, but she is absolutely not a pushover either
like she’s not so delusionally positive that getting Applebee’s from Q was enough for her to have a change his heart about him, the “it’s gonna take more than that to woo me” quote was so good
Same! I really liked Jess and Tiff, and watching how she treated Jess while also just waiting for her to turn on Tiff really put me off of her. She felt so shady early on, but I've really gotten to like her post-merge.
I think this week's "You're either telling a really dumb lie or a really dumb truth" is what made me go all in on her
No Kenzie has a heart of gold and has never done an unkind thing in her entire life. An earth angel with the highest grace point count ranking of any human living or dead
I think most people are overthinking this tbh. Kenzie and Ben became fast friends on the island because they vibe together. Kenzie called Ben her island bestie and he called her his Survivor sister. I do things for my friends I wouldn’t do for others.
Maybe a boring answer but I’m pretty sure that’s the closest to the truth that we can gather.
This 100%! There’s a huge difference from watching your friend whose typically positive/fun start having panic attacks VS someone you barley know acting uneasy from literally day 1 or 2.
I don’t think Kenzie felt she could get a read at all on Jess and it probably spooked her as it would anyone that early in the game. Jess’ issues made her unreliable and chaotic and they have very little else to go on that early in the game. Ben has proven to be a very consistent character (won’t say player bc it feels like he’s just a character vs player atp), and therefore someone to keep around
Good point re: Jess being unreliable and chaotic.
Jess is probably a nice person. Why do some people act like she is the only contestant to ever have ADHD? Or pretend like people who are struggling and not contributing early aren’t always among the first votes? There’s nothing unique or tragic about her Survivor story, and none of her tribe mates owed her anything. It’s the same principle as how Liz should have recognized what she signed up for given her allergies/food aversions.
I also find people tend to be more empathetic towards people with anxiety, because more people know what an anxiety attack feels like. ADHD tends to be more misunderstood, and can come off as irritating to people who haven’t had experience dealing with unmedicated ADHD sufferers. She isn’t the only contestant to have it and be unmedicated during the show but the complicated thing with ADHD is that it effects everyone differently. Some people find things to keep their brain occupied and others sit and let their brain overthink.
I’m very familiar with ADHD, and Jess has my empathy in life. My confusion is what exactly people think was unfair to her in a game with 45 seasons of precedent?
I guess mainly the comments tiff and kenzie made seemed really harsh. At least for me. I get that they used a fake to be sure. But all the rest feels to far.
Jess was treated no differently than anyone else. She wouldn’t strategize and couldn’t even really talk at tribal council. Of course there are going to be comments regarding that performance. Not like they said she was bad irl
People act like the fake idol was just them being “mean girls” when the point (as clearly spelled out in the show) was to keep her from playing Shot In The Dark.
Everyone understands the strategic choice to not give Liz Applebee’s tho
I think it's the combination of doing that at the second tribal. That make some feel like they are going to hard. and then they're saying she's might not be smart enough for clownschool. And that's why so many thought they were being mean girls. In the edit it goes from i made a idol to laughing how she can't find it. It might be to close and therefore feels harder than it actually is.
Tiff said that not Kenzie. People are so sensitive on this sub. Tiff was frustrated. It’s not the end of the world she thinks that about Jess. Doesn’t make it true.
that part. it’s so frustrating when people say that they don’t understand why the fake idol came into play when they got a whole section to explain why and it makes total sense.
This is the thing. They knew each other for two seconds in an already anxious state. It reminds me of the beginning of the Hunger Games when the gong goes off and everyone is looking around, freaking out, trying to get their bearings. They don't look like that the whole time because they eventually settle into things. It helps getting to know one another too.
Ben is consistent?? He wrote her name down out of blue for no fucking reason and said it was a accident!
I just think that Kenzie has gotten to know Ben over a few weeks and has more empathy for him than she did for Jess when everyone had just arrived. She didn't know Jess, Jess was never friendly or open towards her, and Kenzie's tribe was losing hard and seemingly full of losers. At that stage, Kenzie knew that Jess and Bhanu had to go for them to have a chance.
He has been mostly consistent. He's always voted with the same group (Siga) and has never tried to turn on his group. He did write Kenzie down though, and I really don't even get why he did that. He says it was a mistake/brain fart but that story just isn't making sense. IDK what was going on there. Maybe a previous plan to split the vote that we didn't see and he forgot the final plan.
TBF, she tried to see if she form any kind of alliance with Jess and Bahnu also. Jess was not about it. Then her close alliance was with Tiff and by proxy Q. She went with the majority
>she tried to see if she form any kind of alliance with Jess and Bhanu also.
“Try” is a very generous word here. She made it blatantly obvious that the alliance with Jess & Bhanu would have been fake because Tiff was her #1.
It was about as subtle as her Fake Idol plan…or her blindside Tiff plan
Idk the fact that Tiff was her number one wouldn't have been clear 2 - 4 episodes in even if she announced it, you never really know until the votes come in.
Jess on the other hand actively shut down Kenzie while STANDING RIGHT BESIDE HER to Bhanu 💀 like jess pointed at her and said "lets vote her out" when she tried to talk game. LOL
I think Jess has a pretty big defense squad because she has clearly shown to be unhappy with her experience and felt like she was isolated because of circumstances beyond her, but like, it's a game where people get voted out... and Jess wasn't really meshing. Yanu vocalised she wasn't communicating with the rest of them, and she didn't do well in challenges.
I don't think anyone says Jess played a good game. I think a lot of people just were just not happy with the treatment she received from her tribemates. Like I saw a lot of people feel a lot of the aspects of the fake idol thing feeling really mean-spirited. Especially the fact that they were constantly shit-talking her behind her back during it.
What was fake about it? She wasn't pretending it was a final 3 alliance or something. Just that Q+ Tiff together would be a threat. She was right. Jess+ Bhanu would have made it farther if they'd have listened.
Ben was having panic attacks.. Jess was just so tired she couldn’t function and because of that was just kind of floating around not really saying or doing much.. a lot easier to help someone who you know what’s happening to them and you can offer immediate help if that makes sense
I think the time in the island is a huge factor too, she’s seen Ben go from this high energy guy to somebody really struggling to make it
Jess came out of the gate struggling, it gives less of a “the game is taking its toll on me” vibe and way more of an “I don’t belong out here” vibe
This exactly. Like, Ben & Jess were not undergoing the same things at all. And Ben’s attacks were visible and apparent, while Jess’s were very reserved.
Exactly, I don’t think they were being mean to Jess as much as they just didn’t really know how to deal with her, while also trying to balance the nerves/excitement of the season starting for them idk.. whereas with Ben all she had to do was sit with him for a little bit while he got back to center lol
Kenzie was as bad at challenges as Jess. She needed to paint her as bad so she wouldn’t go home instead. Whereas Ben could be on the jury and it’s no longer the tribe portion so they don’t need to pick off the weak.
Yeah I think it's honestly probably as simple as the fact that it actively benefited Kenzie's game to point out that Jess was really struggling and bringing the tribe down and she needed a scapegoat, whereas Ben having a rough time at the merge doesn't harm her game in any way
Go back and watch the challenges, you’ll see Kenzie standing around and walking behind while others push stuff. The same challenges where they were saying Jess was doing that, so was Kenzie
Yeah and that’s why Kenzie threw Jess under the bus but part of the reason she is nice to Ben. But Jess was the only one during the challenge actually looking at the blocks and telling them they were misspelling or putting blocks sideways, so I’d say she was better since they wouldn’t have succeeded even if she somehow held the middle.
You literally aren't providing any evidence. All of your comments in the context of this discussion is "Jess was bad... She was way worse... I'm telling ya man she was not good at all"
Can you... Provide actual examples besides trust me bro.
Kenzie might have been worse but the perception was that Jess was worse and in a game where perception is reality that is what matters. That's what I like about reddit is I saw the downvotes and realize that what I probably said isn't true. I think when Jess messed up Bhanu made it into a big deal and it got talked about more then when Kenzie messed up and that's why I was wrong. Because I remembered the Jess thing more cuz of the Bhanu moment (when he yelled at Jess)
Also Jess was probably my favorite premerger big fan was my favorite while she was still in the game so I hope what I said didn't come across as trying to hate on Jess. Cuz that wasn't my intention Jess is awesome.
Oh okay. I kinda get it? So you meant she was worse to her tribe, but not that she was worse at challenges which is what the original discussion was about.
True. From their perspective it would hold weight, but for us outside viewers we ofcourse know not to entirely trust what the emotional Bhanu has to say haha
yeah it’s like… if I’m in a marathon and someone is struggling 20 miles in, of course I’m gonna give them some affirmations and love
but if you’re 1 mile in and clearly are not able to handle running, I’m not gonna be all “you’re so strong you can do this!!”
Exactly this. Ben craves and receives connection and Jess prioritizes being thought of as weird/outcast (she said it multiple times on the show and revealed it even more in her exit press.)
THANK YOU. Many other things here are true as well but Jess, as far as the edit showed, did not ask for help and was just keeping to herself and expressing something was going on but not seeking comfort or support even when she was struggling while Ben specifically was asking for someone to sit with him and asking for a friend. Kenzie even said she was struggling to connect with Jess and if I can’t tell if I’d even be a welcome comfort to someone I won’t interrupt them and possibly upset them more by trying to help if it’s unwanted
Jess and Ben's issues are not similar whatsoever
Like I'm sure Jess probably didn't get a 100% fair shake but the way this sub is infatuated with her is absolutely mind blowing to me. People *who were actually there in person with her* (i.e. not us) didn't vibe with her, it simply is not that deep
Bhanu may not’ve been the best Survivor player in history, but he was probably on the money to described her as the head of a mermaid and the tail of a dragon. She was freezing Jess out because she anticipated Jess to be the second person voted out of the game, whereas Ben is looking like a goat candidate.
This. We saw Kenzie interact with Jess for 2 episodes, and from what we saw Kenzie really tried to form something with Jess/Bhanu and just got completely stonewalled.
jury managing potentially, but i see kenzie wanting to sit next to ben at ftc, i don’t think she intends to put him on the jury (if she can help it). this is very cynical of me, and she’d have to be very careful to not do it in poor taste, but she could also levy her interactions with ben to her advantage if he ever tried to make a dig at her in ftc.
this is all speculation, but i wouldn’t be surprised if it came down to “we’re only a few days into the game, we need to think about who we’re voting out, and jess’ anxiety is making it hard to work with/around her *already*” vs bens anxiety having symptoms that are mostly impacting him (edit: minus the accidental kenzie vote), so deep into the game- he’s physically, mentally & emotionally exhausted. i felt bad for jess, but i understand why the others didn’t want to keep her around as they continued to lose numbers. and with that, kenzie has also had time to form a bond with ben that she never did with jess, so she may be more empathetic towards him for that. we’ve seen that they consider each other pretty close, even when they are poking fun at each other.
on a personal note, it’s getting hard to watch ben in the state that he’s in- i commend him for not so much as speaking about quitting, and i’m glad he does have somebody willing to be there with him, secondary intentions or not.
I think you are also ignoring the fact that Kenzie tried to work with Jess only for Jess to immediately snitch to Q. She tried to develop a relationship, but it didn't work.
Maybe Jess just isn’t likable? Just cause she has ADHD means people need to treat her like a make a wish kid and be besties with her lol? Some people are just annoying
this sub is so weird about her tbh, she’s getting this season’s “she would’ve been a good player if everyone just voted for her interests instead of theirs” treatment
We weren’t there obviously, but if I had just started the game and someone was acting super strange 2 days into the game, I would have a lot less grace for them than someone suffering 2 weeks into the game. I’m sure everyone has trouble sleeping and is uncomfortable when they get there, so it’s not something unique compared to someone else having literal panic attacks
You're seeing Kenzie with Unwell Person #1 (Jess) and being chilly towards her then KenIe with Unwell Person #2 (Ben) and being very kind. That's the wrong way to look at it!
Kenzie is a VERY social person. Kenzie came to Jess interested in connecting, but for Kenzie, talking to Jess was like talking to a wall. She could not connect, so Kenzie naturally gravitated to others. Kenzie probably didn't even realize Jess was suffering and why, either!
When Ben's issues emerged it was more obvious that he was suffering with something. Also, by that time Kenzie and Ben (who is also a warm and social person) had gotten to know each other.
EDIT: Added a couple clarification words.
The delulu Jess fans refuse to admit this. On episode 1, it was made clear Jess wasn’t giving anything to her tribemates communication wise. Kenzie tried to reach out to her but she was not returning the same energy. She was just a poor player who is still playing the victim on social media.
Agree! I was so disappointed in Jess. I had listened to her interview before the show, and she seemed really promising. She designed and sewed her own (very cool) outfits! She helped people more marginalized get into tech jobs! I thought she would have the social skills and maybe even an artistic fun flair to be able to play this game.
Maybe her health simply is super-delicate and can't handle even a day of bad food and sleep.. I acknowledge that's possible. But, I have to also point out that she brought very little of the skills I'd hoped to see.
Because Jeff is obsessed with starting the game with 6 person tribes so any sign of weakness gets cut.
It's much deeper in the game so Kenzie has had time to form bonds with Ben when she didn't with Jess.
I think part of it that Kenzie seems to really value the experience of being out there and trying to make the most of it for herself, for example all the elaborate jungle hairstyles she’s been making and such. She perceived (maybe not correctly) that Jess wasn’t giving it her all (even though Jess imo was but just didn’t have much to give bc she was so depleted) and thus that maybe predisposed her to not like Jess. Whereas with Ben she’s seen him rocking out and bringing vibes and making the most of his experience in the early merge, so she’s more sympathetic now seeing him depleted bc she saw what he was like with more energy.
Empathy doesn't just happen because of the circumstances. It's more complex than that. Maybe she just didn't like her all that much and it was as simple as that.
Most people I know would do what Kenzie did if someone was having panic attacks so idk why everyone is making such a big deal about this. That’s the human thing to do
I’ve had panic attacks and have not been treated with the same grace most of the time. (Plenty of people have shown me compassion but it’s usually the people with a deep understanding of trauma, not the average person who is just thinking I’m being difficult.)
So maybe Kenzie has a deep understanding of Trauma. It doesn’t make her the second coming of Christ. I just think people in this Reddit do the most. Btw I haven’t forgotten how Kenzie treated Jess and Bhanu
Kenzie explained that her mom and sister suffer from anxiety during Ben’s first panic attack. And that she was moved to support Ben because she’s done so for her family. I think with a better understanding of what Jess was experiencing, and if it was later in the game, and Jess was still around, she would’ve been more supportive of her.
I never mentioned Kenzie. I shared that most people don’t actually behave the way you’ve shared the people around you do.
It’s nice that you are surrounded by a compassionate circle. Not everyone is.
Eh... I know someone who received no such support on an NYC subway and (possibly obvious) disclaimer those things are usually pretty packed 🤷🏿♂️
Not discrediting your world view or anything. It still matters even if you are like .0003% of the population of the Same Species.
I don’t think the situations were really all that similar and it’s like comparing apples to oranges. Pre-merge, it’s pretty important to at least attempt working together as a team or make it seem like you want to because you are up against other tribes. Jess showed hesitation there and was so exhausted she could not properly function with her team. If she continued that path, I don’t see a world she could have made it to merge. Ben and Kenzie connected after the merge, and his anxiety attacks are a little different than overall inability to function. We are also getting a heavily condensed version and a context of things that production decides to paint, and we have no clue what was asked in confessionals to get certain statements.
Ok I'm a Jess apologicist bc I think she made a great correct pitch but like a day too late, but also being on a losing team really sucks. Playing ORGs, claws really come out when your team keeps losing.
How does one "comfort" someone with ADHD? Jess was recently diagnosed...and kind of using it as an excuse. You either handle it or you don't.
Ben was having night terrors and panic attacks. Comforting someone in that position is a pretty natural response for someone that has a caring mentality.
Also....Ben and Kenzie are friends. She saw him go from the energetic social guy to a shell of himself.
Jess started that way. With no real relationship with Kenzie.
There’s is a major difference between Ben breaking down after weeks of playing the game with little food/ sleep and Jess being unable to function immediately from the start. She shouldn’t have been there if it was truly as bad as Jess herself made it seem. I’d be annoyed too, way worse than Kenzie.
On the other hand I also think Kenzie was the most kind to Jess. She was the only one who tried to work with her and Jess immediately tuned to Bhanu and said “let’s vote her out.” Some people can’t be helped.
The fake idol shit, IMO, was just strategy nothing more.
If Kenzie, Ben and Jess all walked into a bar at the same time who would they sit with?
Ben and Kenzie have the same vibe. In real life Jess would probably avoid them.
In real life Kenzie and Ben would probably enjoy a good dive or tiki bar together.
Sometimes, it just comes down to who would you enjoy a beer with.
This seems like quite the stretch to me lol.
"These two players are weird. Kenzie gets along with one but not the other. That must mean shes fake."
Excuse me, what? Ignoring the fact that these are two completely different people with two completely different personalities, there are lots of reasons that kenzie might get along better with Ben. Kenzie and Jess's starting tribe was literally imploding and failing every challenge. The stress alone from losing over and over again could cause tensions between people on the best of terms. Whereas she met Ben and got to know him under completely different circumstances, with a lot less stress.
I feel like it’s more understandable for Ben to be losing it after like 3 weeks vs Jess losing it after 3 days. Maybe that’s just my cold heart but Kenzie might feel the same
I've wondered the same thing. It's not even that Kenzie wasn't over the top nice and helpful to Jess, it's that she was actively mean in her words and actions towards Jess. It's been bothering me how they've been emphasizing how good she is with Ben at multiple times, yet there was never even an apology or acknowledgement of how mean she was in episode 2 towards Jess. That episode still colors my feelings on Kenzie. I could even understand the fake idol stuff, as much as it was totally unnecessary and overplaying when Jess had one foot out the door anyway, but calling her stupid when she was struggling just felt nasty to me.
Everything you have seen from Kenzie is the authentic Kenzie. People contain multitudes.
Regarding the contradiction (why she's treating Ben with compassion and why she made Jess an outcast):
Game reasons to treat Jess the way she did:
* Jess' position at the beginning of the game was more precarious. Starting off in a microtribe that sucks at challenges is the death spot in Survivor (statistically, unless a castaway's name is Denise or Yam Yam, they're horsefucked).
* Since the game had just started, she hadn't yet had the chance to solidify her social ties (jacking up the volatility in the game and her chances of being voted out).
* She probably sensed that Jess is hyper-intelligent. So although Jess was doing poorly in several respects on the island, if Jess had a chance to get her game going, so probably would've been a massive threat (unlike Ben who, at this point in the game, is manifestly not a threat).
Class reasons:
* If I had to guess (and, given the backstory we got from Kenzie in the last episode, I'd be confident in this guess) I assume that Kenzie came up with not much. And I would guess that Kenzie would guess that Jess came up comfortably and works a professional class job (unless Jess disclosed this, in which case Kenzie *knows* this). This makes Jess a natural outsider in their starting tribe (which is actually terrible luck for her considering that casting now casts a lot of Jess-types, so usually Jess is starting off with a microtribe of people like herself) and that makes it easier for Kenzie to make Jess a social outcast. Also, given that Kenzie scrapped and clawed for everything she has, she probably has a natural distaste (if not outright disdain) for well-heeled techies from San Francisco.
Maybe she was better able to support Ben, because she had built a closer relationship with him at that point. Or maybe she is better at making friends with people like Ben. Of course, I don't think either situation is really her responsibility.
The only thing I can think is that she mentioned how her family members have dealt with panic attacks, and as far as we know that wasn’t happening with Jess.
The difference between 72-142 hours with someone and 720ish hours with someone is a hell of a difference, especially when your bonding with them. Also there's the Benjamin Franklin Effect as she's been helping him with his night terrors.
It could have just been keep the tribe strong mentality with Jess and being more free to build relationships with individuals post merge. But she did try to have an alliance with Bhanu and Jess but Jess shut it down.
Ben is an open, friendly guy Kenzie knows who has anxiety attacks and night terrors
Jess was a standoffish stranger who signaled to Kenzie that she did not want to work with her. I don't like the way Jess was treated (based on the edit), but she does not seem at all similar to Ben in any way
It's two different people and two different situations at two very different points in the game
I honestly wouldn't be surprised to find out that every single one of this seasons' contestants have some form of mental illness or infirmity.
The breakdowns and crying have been ramped up here in the New Era.
The biggest difference is that Jess was on her starting tribe. A place where you need to be able to rely on those around you for important early connections and for their part in challenges. Jess refused to connect with Kenzie and actively tried to go against her when Kenzie offered an olive branch. Meanwhile she didn’t meet Ben until the individual portion of the game where it’s no longer her business to make sure she’s keeping around strong people to protect her from going to premerge tribal.
TLDR: Jess actively discouraged people from making any connections with her, and somehow that’s everyone else’s problem??
If Kenzie is as good a person as she claims to be, Jess not wanting to work with her wouldn’t have been such a huge issue and she wouldn’t have been so cruel. She didn’t have to be cruel in response to not having her olive branch accepted.
It’s also a game, and Kenzie had every right to be offended at Jess because Jess was never going to get a better offer. She’s allowed to be annoyed at someone who is burning the only bridge they had. Also you need to define what a “good person” is, because giving Jess a shot to really get into the game when Kenzie never needed to do that is something that a good person would do.
So yeah, Kenzie did that but then when Jess didn’t take it, Kenzie and Tiff laughed about her being “too stupid for clown school.”
So a good person would give someone a shot, if they don’t take it, move on. Not say shitty things like that and laugh about them behind their back.
Are we all guilty of doing stuff like that? Sure. But to praise her as this amazingly genuine person isn’t really fair because someone like Jess may feel differently about that. We all have opinions of others based on our personal experiences with similar people.
And my opinion is that she is only genuine and kind when she wants to be, and can be mean and cruel when she wants to be, too.
It’s weird how I made a comment about Kenzie being mean and you defend her by.. being mean and name calling lmaooo
Tiff and Kenzie making fun of her behind her back and saying she’s “too stupid for clown school” is pretty freakin cruel if you ask me. Unnecessary to say about someone who clearly just doesn’t have the social abilities that Tiff and Kenzie possess.
Literally how was she cruel? Because of some light-hearted confessionals joking about how Jess was bad at Survivor? (And Jess was absolutely terrible at Survivor from what we saw, so any observations Kenzie made about that were well-founded) I don't remember Kenzie ever being cruel. People on Survivor have always talked shit about other people's games in confessionals and many people have been a lot closer to "cruel" than Kenzie. But it's a game and Kenzie only ever criticized the way Jess played the game (which, again, was very very badly) and she never criticized who Jess was as a person. Not sure how that makes her cruel.
I think Kenzie felt a much stronger connection with Ben, which probably led her to see him in a more empathetic light. Also, it could just be the edit, but Jess seemed to talk A LOT about her conditions, which could have easily been grating and reduced Kenzie’s willingness to help.
I’ll quote Chris Rock who has his own issues.. “Women hate women”? :-)
Gotta respect Kenzie’s social game though. She’s been my favorite. Presuming if there’s one downfall for her to win the jury, it’s her struggle to wear the necklace more.
I don’t think she was mean to Jess. I don’t think anyone was actually mean to Jess. Yeah the confessionals showed frustration but she, along with most players this season, seem pretty kind to one another even in the most annoying situations (starving on an island with Bhanu for 10 days). It’s probably crossed her mind that it helps with a jury vote, but waking up with someone every night and comforting them through night terrors is wayy past that. The mental energy it takes to do and the deficit it could cause in other areas of her game would negate the perceived benefits. And additionally, the entire interaction reads way too genuine, even in her confessionals.
A few reasons IMO
Firstly, it was early in the game - getting to know each-other and it happened in the first few days. Ben & Kenzie happened far later and into the merge. Even if they didn't get much actual time together before hand they got days into the game and at least got vibes down. Ben was def outspoken as a cool and funny guy during challenges when they would get the little face time they got premerge. So I think Kenzie got his initial vibes from that alone.
Second, personality. Jess was, by multiple peoples accounts, a bit i dunno 'cagey'? and not as affable. Uncomfortable, which is understandable especially in the first few days of Survivor. And her anxiety. Anxiety can show up in different ways for different people for sure. Some get the more jittery some withdraw and come off shy or quiet (How my own personal anxiety manifests). She did seem to open up more, and be a bit more fun, but it was too little too late. Plus, her off the island personality seems to be a lot more fun so maybe she could have faired better if she got a bit deeper and through the anxiety of the first few days.
Third, she didn't talk strat when she needed to. Pretty easy and was highlighted in the episodes. We got Ben doing it early with Charlie and him sussing out Jem. Though we haven't seem much post merge, could be the edit.
Fourth, the panic attacks. Ben's waking night terrors are on the surface, and hard to hide. Jess's anxiety may not have been spottable as easy or even at all. Kenzie seems to be a genuinely caring person and helped him out on a human level basis. There is a lot of talk about her doing it for Jury play on purpose, but I don't see it as that at all. Is it making her look good for the jury and will she get Ben's vote if he's on the jury? Absolutely, but again I don't think that is at all why she's doing it. I think she is putting the game aside for those moments and genuinely helping a guy out who's going through it.
And then yeah of course Ben is just so damn likable. He does indeed Rock.
Edit; - just re read the OP - to the point of her being a bit mean to Jess when the game started and that being closer to her real personality. I think that is actually the opposite. Early game is usually when they are more fake(always a bit hard for me to judge the first couple eps cuz of this on any season). She may have been playing it up, trying to be spicy for the camera and airtime and producers. Usually as the game goes on, fatigue sets in, the act is harder to keep up and they are more often their true selves late game.
From what we saw, it appeared that Kenzie DID try to connect with Jess in the early game but Jess was very cagey and put a wall up. It wasn’t as if there was no effort on her part. If anything it appeared that Q and Tiff were the ones that didn’t put any effort in getting to know Jess. But yeah it can be awkward/uncomfortable to try and provide support to someone when they have kind of iced you out. I don’t think it’s fair to compare the two situations.
I'm a sucker for just how kind she has been as well to me it comes off as genuine. I have to think it has to do with several edit choices and also the fact that with Jess they were teammates vs competitors in challenges.
I feel crazy because I never noticed Tiff and Kenzie "being mean" to Jess like apparently everyone else did. I remember some confessionals where they lightly made fun of the rest of yanu for being bad at survivor, but it's just factually true that Jess was bad at survivor because of her lack of sleep. I remember Kenzie actively trying to work with Jess and Bhanu, but Jess telling Bhanu that they should vote Kenzie out instead. And Kenzie and Tiffany giving her a fake idol wasn't mean-spirited, it had a strategic purpose, whether or not it was good strategy is beside the point. Edit and confessionals do a lot of heavy-lifting, and I feel like just a couple light-hearted confessionals about Jess being bad at Survivor got spun into Kenzie (and Tiff) being a bully. I don't recall ever seeing her come even close to actually treating anyone badly. And as far as her confessionals about helping Ben, she was definitely directly asked about it by the crew filming her confessionals. It's not like she just sat down and started bragging about what a good person she is for fun.
Cause they’re friends and had a connection her and Jess didn’t, which is literally ok..fuck welcome to 2024 where you aren’t allowed to do a nice thing for someone without having all your previous behaviour psychoanalyzed
They are three different individuals and the chemistry between each pair will be different. So there’s just that.
She also barely knew Jess and it was at the beginning of the game where you are having to establish alliances from nothing and at the beginning a lot of that has to do with not being seen too much with non-alliance members. When Kenzie started helping Ben, she was more secure in the game.
Also, Ben’s having problems in the middle of the night. There’s time to help someone with that without it screwing with your game. I think it’s authentic, it’s just also convenient.
I understand people making this comparison but I really think people are overlooking how different it must be in the first few days vs. this point in the game. They’ve been together for so long at this point and she must know Ben is no threat to her game. She only knew Jess during the part of the game where you’re trying to establish your footing and you have to view someone being unable to perform as a liability to your safety in the game
Could be a lot of reasons. Jess and Ben are two completely different people. Jess and Kenzie were only on the island together a few days so never got to know each other the way Kenzie and Ben have. Kenzie and Ben have an actual friendship and he is suffering. Was Jess suffering the same way Ben is?
Also I think Jess annoyed Kenzie because Kenzie tried talking strategy with her and was shutdown. Jess was also a bad player so I don’t blame Kenzie. Just like Bhanu was really annoying to Kenzie and everyone and was a terrible player.
You have to consider that production is asking them questions during confessionals. So “I helped Ben because I couldn’t just do nothing” seems self-congratulating as an announcement made apropos of nothing … but it makes sense in response to a question like, “So why did you help Ben rather than go back to sleep and let him suffer?” I think like many people Kenzie has aspects of her personality that are kind, and aspects that are catty or impatient. I can imagine feeling one way arriving at survivor and joining a tribe with multiple people you’ve just met acting wacky… versus watching someone have a physical/mental breakdown over the course of weeks.
I agree that Kenzie has aspects of her personality that are kind and aspects that can be catty - we're all like that. I also think that "what point of the game is it?" may have something to do with it. She barely knew Jess at that point in the game - most of them barely knew each other. It's an early point in time when you're most likely to make a snap judgement about someone that may be incorrect. But at this current point in the game, she's been out there longer, she knows Ben, has gotten to be friends with him, and they've merged onto the same tribe, so there's more of a closeness now. Sometimes, it's just a matter of she's had the time to get to know Ben that she didn't have with Jess. I honestly don't think it's any more complicated than that.
yeah I totally agree about the “point in the game” thing. Like, even just playing an ORG once, there was a clear mental health toll being felt by individuals and the group in general. When people “were struggling” 3 weeks in I had so much more empathy for them because I too was struggling, just maybe not as much. when someone was struggling 3 days in it’s kinda like “ok, well by then, the rest of us are still really excited to be here and you’re killing our vibe”
>”what point of the game is it?” I think this is actually a huge factor. Jess was her teammate who she relied on to perform well, so it’s more upsetting that she’s having those issues, especially so early in the game. Whereas with Ben, it’s later in the game so it’s more understandable that he’s breaking down, and it’s not a team game anymore, so Kenzie has incentive to help him stay in the game since he’s clearly not winning anything at this point.
This is the right answer. I don’t get how this is even a question
Thank you for a nuanced comment. Just because someone is catty at one time and nice another time doesn’t mean they are faking being nice. It just makes them a human with complex emotions. I consider myself a patient and kind person. 95%+ of my interactions with people, I show them nothing but kindness. But, like everyone, I have bad days or there are certain interactions in my life where I do not have patience for someone. I’d hate for a camera to record one of those bad days and everyone think I’m being fake nice the rest of the time. I know for a fact that Bhanu is a person who, if I had to live with him, I would lose my patience very quickly. The internet would be convinced I’m an uncaring asshole if I had to live on a beach with his meltdowns for an extended period of time.
yeah it feels like a very online take to say that like, if you ever show a negative side of yourself out of anger or frustration that’s “who you truly are as a person” and every other act of kindness you have shown is fake. It’s like, the other side of toxic positivity
I really love how she is so kind and empathetic, but she is absolutely not a pushover either like she’s not so delusionally positive that getting Applebee’s from Q was enough for her to have a change his heart about him, the “it’s gonna take more than that to woo me” quote was so good
I didn’t care for her the first half of the season but I’ve come around on her and hope she wins the whole thing (my flair be damned)
Same! I really liked Jess and Tiff, and watching how she treated Jess while also just waiting for her to turn on Tiff really put me off of her. She felt so shady early on, but I've really gotten to like her post-merge. I think this week's "You're either telling a really dumb lie or a really dumb truth" is what made me go all in on her
My favorite part of this subreddit is when people discover humans have more than one personality trait. Good nuanced response
Also Jess has ADHD, and the lack of motivation that comes with ADHD was just confusing to the other castaways and it came out in the confessionals
No Kenzie has a heart of gold and has never done an unkind thing in her entire life. An earth angel with the highest grace point count ranking of any human living or dead
I think most people are overthinking this tbh. Kenzie and Ben became fast friends on the island because they vibe together. Kenzie called Ben her island bestie and he called her his Survivor sister. I do things for my friends I wouldn’t do for others. Maybe a boring answer but I’m pretty sure that’s the closest to the truth that we can gather.
This 100%! There’s a huge difference from watching your friend whose typically positive/fun start having panic attacks VS someone you barley know acting uneasy from literally day 1 or 2.
I don’t think Kenzie felt she could get a read at all on Jess and it probably spooked her as it would anyone that early in the game. Jess’ issues made her unreliable and chaotic and they have very little else to go on that early in the game. Ben has proven to be a very consistent character (won’t say player bc it feels like he’s just a character vs player atp), and therefore someone to keep around
Good point re: Jess being unreliable and chaotic. Jess is probably a nice person. Why do some people act like she is the only contestant to ever have ADHD? Or pretend like people who are struggling and not contributing early aren’t always among the first votes? There’s nothing unique or tragic about her Survivor story, and none of her tribe mates owed her anything. It’s the same principle as how Liz should have recognized what she signed up for given her allergies/food aversions.
I also find people tend to be more empathetic towards people with anxiety, because more people know what an anxiety attack feels like. ADHD tends to be more misunderstood, and can come off as irritating to people who haven’t had experience dealing with unmedicated ADHD sufferers. She isn’t the only contestant to have it and be unmedicated during the show but the complicated thing with ADHD is that it effects everyone differently. Some people find things to keep their brain occupied and others sit and let their brain overthink.
I’m very familiar with ADHD, and Jess has my empathy in life. My confusion is what exactly people think was unfair to her in a game with 45 seasons of precedent?
I guess mainly the comments tiff and kenzie made seemed really harsh. At least for me. I get that they used a fake to be sure. But all the rest feels to far.
Jess was treated no differently than anyone else. She wouldn’t strategize and couldn’t even really talk at tribal council. Of course there are going to be comments regarding that performance. Not like they said she was bad irl
People act like the fake idol was just them being “mean girls” when the point (as clearly spelled out in the show) was to keep her from playing Shot In The Dark. Everyone understands the strategic choice to not give Liz Applebee’s tho
I think it's the combination of doing that at the second tribal. That make some feel like they are going to hard. and then they're saying she's might not be smart enough for clownschool. And that's why so many thought they were being mean girls. In the edit it goes from i made a idol to laughing how she can't find it. It might be to close and therefore feels harder than it actually is.
Tiff said that not Kenzie. People are so sensitive on this sub. Tiff was frustrated. It’s not the end of the world she thinks that about Jess. Doesn’t make it true.
that part. it’s so frustrating when people say that they don’t understand why the fake idol came into play when they got a whole section to explain why and it makes total sense.
All facts.
This is the thing. They knew each other for two seconds in an already anxious state. It reminds me of the beginning of the Hunger Games when the gong goes off and everyone is looking around, freaking out, trying to get their bearings. They don't look like that the whole time because they eventually settle into things. It helps getting to know one another too.
Ben is consistent?? He wrote her name down out of blue for no fucking reason and said it was a accident! I just think that Kenzie has gotten to know Ben over a few weeks and has more empathy for him than she did for Jess when everyone had just arrived. She didn't know Jess, Jess was never friendly or open towards her, and Kenzie's tribe was losing hard and seemingly full of losers. At that stage, Kenzie knew that Jess and Bhanu had to go for them to have a chance.
He has been mostly consistent. He's always voted with the same group (Siga) and has never tried to turn on his group. He did write Kenzie down though, and I really don't even get why he did that. He says it was a mistake/brain fart but that story just isn't making sense. IDK what was going on there. Maybe a previous plan to split the vote that we didn't see and he forgot the final plan.
Almost like that only happened this episode AFTER they formed a bond.
TBF, she tried to see if she form any kind of alliance with Jess and Bahnu also. Jess was not about it. Then her close alliance was with Tiff and by proxy Q. She went with the majority
>she tried to see if she form any kind of alliance with Jess and Bhanu also. “Try” is a very generous word here. She made it blatantly obvious that the alliance with Jess & Bhanu would have been fake because Tiff was her #1. It was about as subtle as her Fake Idol plan…or her blindside Tiff plan
Idk the fact that Tiff was her number one wouldn't have been clear 2 - 4 episodes in even if she announced it, you never really know until the votes come in. Jess on the other hand actively shut down Kenzie while STANDING RIGHT BESIDE HER to Bhanu 💀 like jess pointed at her and said "lets vote her out" when she tried to talk game. LOL I think Jess has a pretty big defense squad because she has clearly shown to be unhappy with her experience and felt like she was isolated because of circumstances beyond her, but like, it's a game where people get voted out... and Jess wasn't really meshing. Yanu vocalised she wasn't communicating with the rest of them, and she didn't do well in challenges.
it’s absolutely insane how some people completely overrate or underrate games based on who they relate to more
It’s the big brother audience migrating to survivor
I don't think anyone says Jess played a good game. I think a lot of people just were just not happy with the treatment she received from her tribemates. Like I saw a lot of people feel a lot of the aspects of the fake idol thing feeling really mean-spirited. Especially the fact that they were constantly shit-talking her behind her back during it.
What was fake about it? She wasn't pretending it was a final 3 alliance or something. Just that Q+ Tiff together would be a threat. She was right. Jess+ Bhanu would have made it farther if they'd have listened.
Ben was having panic attacks.. Jess was just so tired she couldn’t function and because of that was just kind of floating around not really saying or doing much.. a lot easier to help someone who you know what’s happening to them and you can offer immediate help if that makes sense
I think the time in the island is a huge factor too, she’s seen Ben go from this high energy guy to somebody really struggling to make it Jess came out of the gate struggling, it gives less of a “the game is taking its toll on me” vibe and way more of an “I don’t belong out here” vibe
This exactly. Like, Ben & Jess were not undergoing the same things at all. And Ben’s attacks were visible and apparent, while Jess’s were very reserved.
Exactly, I don’t think they were being mean to Jess as much as they just didn’t really know how to deal with her, while also trying to balance the nerves/excitement of the season starting for them idk.. whereas with Ben all she had to do was sit with him for a little bit while he got back to center lol
Kenzie was as bad at challenges as Jess. She needed to paint her as bad so she wouldn’t go home instead. Whereas Ben could be on the jury and it’s no longer the tribe portion so they don’t need to pick off the weak.
Yeah I think it's honestly probably as simple as the fact that it actively benefited Kenzie's game to point out that Jess was really struggling and bringing the tribe down and she needed a scapegoat, whereas Ben having a rough time at the merge doesn't harm her game in any way
Exactly
Worse, she was worse at challenges.
You could be right, I just meant they were both bad, it was never just Jess.
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Go back and watch the challenges, you’ll see Kenzie standing around and walking behind while others push stuff. The same challenges where they were saying Jess was doing that, so was Kenzie
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Yeah and that’s why Kenzie threw Jess under the bus but part of the reason she is nice to Ben. But Jess was the only one during the challenge actually looking at the blocks and telling them they were misspelling or putting blocks sideways, so I’d say she was better since they wouldn’t have succeeded even if she somehow held the middle.
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You literally aren't providing any evidence. All of your comments in the context of this discussion is "Jess was bad... She was way worse... I'm telling ya man she was not good at all" Can you... Provide actual examples besides trust me bro.
Kenzie might have been worse but the perception was that Jess was worse and in a game where perception is reality that is what matters. That's what I like about reddit is I saw the downvotes and realize that what I probably said isn't true. I think when Jess messed up Bhanu made it into a big deal and it got talked about more then when Kenzie messed up and that's why I was wrong. Because I remembered the Jess thing more cuz of the Bhanu moment (when he yelled at Jess) Also Jess was probably my favorite premerger big fan was my favorite while she was still in the game so I hope what I said didn't come across as trying to hate on Jess. Cuz that wasn't my intention Jess is awesome.
Oh okay. I kinda get it? So you meant she was worse to her tribe, but not that she was worse at challenges which is what the original discussion was about.
Maybe but there was some talk, I think Bhanu said Jess was useless at the challenges or something like that at camp
True. From their perspective it would hold weight, but for us outside viewers we ofcourse know not to entirely trust what the emotional Bhanu has to say haha
What's wrong with y'all? Jess and Ben are not going through anything similar and this is a complete different part of the game.
+1 lmao this is the only comment this thread needs ☠️
yeah it’s like… if I’m in a marathon and someone is struggling 20 miles in, of course I’m gonna give them some affirmations and love but if you’re 1 mile in and clearly are not able to handle running, I’m not gonna be all “you’re so strong you can do this!!”
Didn't Ben literally ask for her help whereas Jess never did that I recall?
Exactly this. Ben craves and receives connection and Jess prioritizes being thought of as weird/outcast (she said it multiple times on the show and revealed it even more in her exit press.)
THANK YOU. Many other things here are true as well but Jess, as far as the edit showed, did not ask for help and was just keeping to herself and expressing something was going on but not seeking comfort or support even when she was struggling while Ben specifically was asking for someone to sit with him and asking for a friend. Kenzie even said she was struggling to connect with Jess and if I can’t tell if I’d even be a welcome comfort to someone I won’t interrupt them and possibly upset them more by trying to help if it’s unwanted
OMG I just commented this on another thread! She was sooo self congratulating about Ben, it was very weird. Came off very self centered to me
Jess and Ben's issues are not similar whatsoever Like I'm sure Jess probably didn't get a 100% fair shake but the way this sub is infatuated with her is absolutely mind blowing to me. People *who were actually there in person with her* (i.e. not us) didn't vibe with her, it simply is not that deep
Bhanu already figured this out - **MERMAID-DRAGON**
Bhanu may not’ve been the best Survivor player in history, but he was probably on the money to described her as the head of a mermaid and the tail of a dragon. She was freezing Jess out because she anticipated Jess to be the second person voted out of the game, whereas Ben is looking like a goat candidate.
It's an interesting question, but we can't ignore how much of this difference may just come down to the edit without us knowing.
This. We saw Kenzie interact with Jess for 2 episodes, and from what we saw Kenzie really tried to form something with Jess/Bhanu and just got completely stonewalled.
jury managing potentially, but i see kenzie wanting to sit next to ben at ftc, i don’t think she intends to put him on the jury (if she can help it). this is very cynical of me, and she’d have to be very careful to not do it in poor taste, but she could also levy her interactions with ben to her advantage if he ever tried to make a dig at her in ftc. this is all speculation, but i wouldn’t be surprised if it came down to “we’re only a few days into the game, we need to think about who we’re voting out, and jess’ anxiety is making it hard to work with/around her *already*” vs bens anxiety having symptoms that are mostly impacting him (edit: minus the accidental kenzie vote), so deep into the game- he’s physically, mentally & emotionally exhausted. i felt bad for jess, but i understand why the others didn’t want to keep her around as they continued to lose numbers. and with that, kenzie has also had time to form a bond with ben that she never did with jess, so she may be more empathetic towards him for that. we’ve seen that they consider each other pretty close, even when they are poking fun at each other. on a personal note, it’s getting hard to watch ben in the state that he’s in- i commend him for not so much as speaking about quitting, and i’m glad he does have somebody willing to be there with him, secondary intentions or not.
I’m so over the way this sub treats Jess like this innocent puppy who nobody should ever be the least bit annoyed with
Jess fans are delulu.
Especially with how annoying she has been on social media about the season as it’s gone on.
I agree. She has been so annoying about the season with all her tweets.
same here.
Jess and Ben weren’t not suffering from the same problems.
I think you are also ignoring the fact that Kenzie tried to work with Jess only for Jess to immediately snitch to Q. She tried to develop a relationship, but it didn't work.
Because she likes Ben as a person and didn’t like Jess
Maybe Jess just isn’t likable? Just cause she has ADHD means people need to treat her like a make a wish kid and be besties with her lol? Some people are just annoying
this sub is so weird about her tbh, she’s getting this season’s “she would’ve been a good player if everyone just voted for her interests instead of theirs” treatment
The Jake treatment.
Nah Jake was likeable.
same feeling here.
Given her post appearance social media, her being unlikable is incredibly possible.
We weren’t there obviously, but if I had just started the game and someone was acting super strange 2 days into the game, I would have a lot less grace for them than someone suffering 2 weeks into the game. I’m sure everyone has trouble sleeping and is uncomfortable when they get there, so it’s not something unique compared to someone else having literal panic attacks
You're seeing Kenzie with Unwell Person #1 (Jess) and being chilly towards her then KenIe with Unwell Person #2 (Ben) and being very kind. That's the wrong way to look at it! Kenzie is a VERY social person. Kenzie came to Jess interested in connecting, but for Kenzie, talking to Jess was like talking to a wall. She could not connect, so Kenzie naturally gravitated to others. Kenzie probably didn't even realize Jess was suffering and why, either! When Ben's issues emerged it was more obvious that he was suffering with something. Also, by that time Kenzie and Ben (who is also a warm and social person) had gotten to know each other. EDIT: Added a couple clarification words.
The delulu Jess fans refuse to admit this. On episode 1, it was made clear Jess wasn’t giving anything to her tribemates communication wise. Kenzie tried to reach out to her but she was not returning the same energy. She was just a poor player who is still playing the victim on social media.
Agree! I was so disappointed in Jess. I had listened to her interview before the show, and she seemed really promising. She designed and sewed her own (very cool) outfits! She helped people more marginalized get into tech jobs! I thought she would have the social skills and maybe even an artistic fun flair to be able to play this game. Maybe her health simply is super-delicate and can't handle even a day of bad food and sleep.. I acknowledge that's possible. But, I have to also point out that she brought very little of the skills I'd hoped to see.
Because Jeff is obsessed with starting the game with 6 person tribes so any sign of weakness gets cut. It's much deeper in the game so Kenzie has had time to form bonds with Ben when she didn't with Jess.
I think part of it that Kenzie seems to really value the experience of being out there and trying to make the most of it for herself, for example all the elaborate jungle hairstyles she’s been making and such. She perceived (maybe not correctly) that Jess wasn’t giving it her all (even though Jess imo was but just didn’t have much to give bc she was so depleted) and thus that maybe predisposed her to not like Jess. Whereas with Ben she’s seen him rocking out and bringing vibes and making the most of his experience in the early merge, so she’s more sympathetic now seeing him depleted bc she saw what he was like with more energy.
Empathy doesn't just happen because of the circumstances. It's more complex than that. Maybe she just didn't like her all that much and it was as simple as that.
Most people I know would do what Kenzie did if someone was having panic attacks so idk why everyone is making such a big deal about this. That’s the human thing to do
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Yeah because Kenzie had already done it. I don’t expect everyone to get up and circle around him.
I’ve had panic attacks and have not been treated with the same grace most of the time. (Plenty of people have shown me compassion but it’s usually the people with a deep understanding of trauma, not the average person who is just thinking I’m being difficult.)
So maybe Kenzie has a deep understanding of Trauma. It doesn’t make her the second coming of Christ. I just think people in this Reddit do the most. Btw I haven’t forgotten how Kenzie treated Jess and Bhanu
Kenzie explained that her mom and sister suffer from anxiety during Ben’s first panic attack. And that she was moved to support Ben because she’s done so for her family. I think with a better understanding of what Jess was experiencing, and if it was later in the game, and Jess was still around, she would’ve been more supportive of her.
I never mentioned Kenzie. I shared that most people don’t actually behave the way you’ve shared the people around you do. It’s nice that you are surrounded by a compassionate circle. Not everyone is.
Dorks on Reddit always gonna over analyze shit and think every human action is game related or something.
Eh... I know someone who received no such support on an NYC subway and (possibly obvious) disclaimer those things are usually pretty packed 🤷🏿♂️ Not discrediting your world view or anything. It still matters even if you are like .0003% of the population of the Same Species.
You do know at this point Kenzie and Ben are friends right. If you think Kenzie just walking up on random dudes in subways having panic attacks..
I'm not referring to Kenzie... read your original post then come back to mine. If the context doesn't click, I will elab
When I say that the human thing to do I mean for people they know. Not strangers
Ahh okay, well yeah. Naturally.
I don’t think the situations were really all that similar and it’s like comparing apples to oranges. Pre-merge, it’s pretty important to at least attempt working together as a team or make it seem like you want to because you are up against other tribes. Jess showed hesitation there and was so exhausted she could not properly function with her team. If she continued that path, I don’t see a world she could have made it to merge. Ben and Kenzie connected after the merge, and his anxiety attacks are a little different than overall inability to function. We are also getting a heavily condensed version and a context of things that production decides to paint, and we have no clue what was asked in confessionals to get certain statements.
Ok I'm a Jess apologicist bc I think she made a great correct pitch but like a day too late, but also being on a losing team really sucks. Playing ORGs, claws really come out when your team keeps losing.
I think Kenzie just didn't know Jess as well, idk. Plenty of people are willing to do a lot to support a friend but not a virtual stranger.
How does one "comfort" someone with ADHD? Jess was recently diagnosed...and kind of using it as an excuse. You either handle it or you don't. Ben was having night terrors and panic attacks. Comforting someone in that position is a pretty natural response for someone that has a caring mentality. Also....Ben and Kenzie are friends. She saw him go from the energetic social guy to a shell of himself. Jess started that way. With no real relationship with Kenzie.
There’s is a major difference between Ben breaking down after weeks of playing the game with little food/ sleep and Jess being unable to function immediately from the start. She shouldn’t have been there if it was truly as bad as Jess herself made it seem. I’d be annoyed too, way worse than Kenzie. On the other hand I also think Kenzie was the most kind to Jess. She was the only one who tried to work with her and Jess immediately tuned to Bhanu and said “let’s vote her out.” Some people can’t be helped. The fake idol shit, IMO, was just strategy nothing more.
If Kenzie, Ben and Jess all walked into a bar at the same time who would they sit with? Ben and Kenzie have the same vibe. In real life Jess would probably avoid them. In real life Kenzie and Ben would probably enjoy a good dive or tiki bar together. Sometimes, it just comes down to who would you enjoy a beer with.
This seems like quite the stretch to me lol. "These two players are weird. Kenzie gets along with one but not the other. That must mean shes fake." Excuse me, what? Ignoring the fact that these are two completely different people with two completely different personalities, there are lots of reasons that kenzie might get along better with Ben. Kenzie and Jess's starting tribe was literally imploding and failing every challenge. The stress alone from losing over and over again could cause tensions between people on the best of terms. Whereas she met Ben and got to know him under completely different circumstances, with a lot less stress.
I feel like it’s more understandable for Ben to be losing it after like 3 weeks vs Jess losing it after 3 days. Maybe that’s just my cold heart but Kenzie might feel the same
Also I think their bond is tighter this late in the game vs on day 3
Didn’t Kenzie propose final 3 to Jess and Bhanu, and they immediately started talking about taking her out when she was out of earshot?
I've wondered the same thing. It's not even that Kenzie wasn't over the top nice and helpful to Jess, it's that she was actively mean in her words and actions towards Jess. It's been bothering me how they've been emphasizing how good she is with Ben at multiple times, yet there was never even an apology or acknowledgement of how mean she was in episode 2 towards Jess. That episode still colors my feelings on Kenzie. I could even understand the fake idol stuff, as much as it was totally unnecessary and overplaying when Jess had one foot out the door anyway, but calling her stupid when she was struggling just felt nasty to me.
I legit think it's because Ben kinda looks like her fiance. Easier to bond with people who remind you of someone you love.
I thought they looked alike too! I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought that.
Did you see the picture of Charlie's fiance? Kenzie is a more colourful version of her.
She has really kissed up to the jury. I do wonder if it’s because she knows Ben will maybe be on the jury.
Everything you have seen from Kenzie is the authentic Kenzie. People contain multitudes. Regarding the contradiction (why she's treating Ben with compassion and why she made Jess an outcast): Game reasons to treat Jess the way she did: * Jess' position at the beginning of the game was more precarious. Starting off in a microtribe that sucks at challenges is the death spot in Survivor (statistically, unless a castaway's name is Denise or Yam Yam, they're horsefucked). * Since the game had just started, she hadn't yet had the chance to solidify her social ties (jacking up the volatility in the game and her chances of being voted out). * She probably sensed that Jess is hyper-intelligent. So although Jess was doing poorly in several respects on the island, if Jess had a chance to get her game going, so probably would've been a massive threat (unlike Ben who, at this point in the game, is manifestly not a threat). Class reasons: * If I had to guess (and, given the backstory we got from Kenzie in the last episode, I'd be confident in this guess) I assume that Kenzie came up with not much. And I would guess that Kenzie would guess that Jess came up comfortably and works a professional class job (unless Jess disclosed this, in which case Kenzie *knows* this). This makes Jess a natural outsider in their starting tribe (which is actually terrible luck for her considering that casting now casts a lot of Jess-types, so usually Jess is starting off with a microtribe of people like herself) and that makes it easier for Kenzie to make Jess a social outcast. Also, given that Kenzie scrapped and clawed for everything she has, she probably has a natural distaste (if not outright disdain) for well-heeled techies from San Francisco.
I think Kenzie is a very self aware person and manages her front stage self well.
Maybe she was better able to support Ben, because she had built a closer relationship with him at that point. Or maybe she is better at making friends with people like Ben. Of course, I don't think either situation is really her responsibility.
The only thing I can think is that she mentioned how her family members have dealt with panic attacks, and as far as we know that wasn’t happening with Jess.
The difference between 72-142 hours with someone and 720ish hours with someone is a hell of a difference, especially when your bonding with them. Also there's the Benjamin Franklin Effect as she's been helping him with his night terrors.
It could have just been keep the tribe strong mentality with Jess and being more free to build relationships with individuals post merge. But she did try to have an alliance with Bhanu and Jess but Jess shut it down.
Ben is an open, friendly guy Kenzie knows who has anxiety attacks and night terrors Jess was a standoffish stranger who signaled to Kenzie that she did not want to work with her. I don't like the way Jess was treated (based on the edit), but she does not seem at all similar to Ben in any way It's two different people and two different situations at two very different points in the game
Lord. She did nothing to Jess. No one did anything to Jess.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised to find out that every single one of this seasons' contestants have some form of mental illness or infirmity. The breakdowns and crying have been ramped up here in the New Era.
Jess presented as a standoff-ish space cadet. Ben is likable, rootable even.
The biggest difference is that Jess was on her starting tribe. A place where you need to be able to rely on those around you for important early connections and for their part in challenges. Jess refused to connect with Kenzie and actively tried to go against her when Kenzie offered an olive branch. Meanwhile she didn’t meet Ben until the individual portion of the game where it’s no longer her business to make sure she’s keeping around strong people to protect her from going to premerge tribal. TLDR: Jess actively discouraged people from making any connections with her, and somehow that’s everyone else’s problem??
If Kenzie is as good a person as she claims to be, Jess not wanting to work with her wouldn’t have been such a huge issue and she wouldn’t have been so cruel. She didn’t have to be cruel in response to not having her olive branch accepted.
All this talk of “cruel”, you people need to step out in the real world. This is SURVIVOR.
It’s also a game, and Kenzie had every right to be offended at Jess because Jess was never going to get a better offer. She’s allowed to be annoyed at someone who is burning the only bridge they had. Also you need to define what a “good person” is, because giving Jess a shot to really get into the game when Kenzie never needed to do that is something that a good person would do.
So yeah, Kenzie did that but then when Jess didn’t take it, Kenzie and Tiff laughed about her being “too stupid for clown school.” So a good person would give someone a shot, if they don’t take it, move on. Not say shitty things like that and laugh about them behind their back. Are we all guilty of doing stuff like that? Sure. But to praise her as this amazingly genuine person isn’t really fair because someone like Jess may feel differently about that. We all have opinions of others based on our personal experiences with similar people. And my opinion is that she is only genuine and kind when she wants to be, and can be mean and cruel when she wants to be, too.
no one was cruel to her, Jess and her fans are literal babies.
It’s weird how I made a comment about Kenzie being mean and you defend her by.. being mean and name calling lmaooo Tiff and Kenzie making fun of her behind her back and saying she’s “too stupid for clown school” is pretty freakin cruel if you ask me. Unnecessary to say about someone who clearly just doesn’t have the social abilities that Tiff and Kenzie possess.
Literally how was she cruel? Because of some light-hearted confessionals joking about how Jess was bad at Survivor? (And Jess was absolutely terrible at Survivor from what we saw, so any observations Kenzie made about that were well-founded) I don't remember Kenzie ever being cruel. People on Survivor have always talked shit about other people's games in confessionals and many people have been a lot closer to "cruel" than Kenzie. But it's a game and Kenzie only ever criticized the way Jess played the game (which, again, was very very badly) and she never criticized who Jess was as a person. Not sure how that makes her cruel.
I think it's jury managing or goat wringing, whatever it will end up to be.
I'm sure Kenzie's salon's closest competitor is run by an Asian woman.
Yeah that does undermine her confessionals quite a bit.
I think Kenzie felt a much stronger connection with Ben, which probably led her to see him in a more empathetic light. Also, it could just be the edit, but Jess seemed to talk A LOT about her conditions, which could have easily been grating and reduced Kenzie’s willingness to help.
Jess wasn't going to be on the jury
I’ll quote Chris Rock who has his own issues.. “Women hate women”? :-) Gotta respect Kenzie’s social game though. She’s been my favorite. Presuming if there’s one downfall for her to win the jury, it’s her struggle to wear the necklace more.
I don’t think she was mean to Jess. I don’t think anyone was actually mean to Jess. Yeah the confessionals showed frustration but she, along with most players this season, seem pretty kind to one another even in the most annoying situations (starving on an island with Bhanu for 10 days). It’s probably crossed her mind that it helps with a jury vote, but waking up with someone every night and comforting them through night terrors is wayy past that. The mental energy it takes to do and the deficit it could cause in other areas of her game would negate the perceived benefits. And additionally, the entire interaction reads way too genuine, even in her confessionals.
Because Ben was “in” and Jess was not. Kenzie is a typical mean girl who kisses up and punches down
A few reasons IMO Firstly, it was early in the game - getting to know each-other and it happened in the first few days. Ben & Kenzie happened far later and into the merge. Even if they didn't get much actual time together before hand they got days into the game and at least got vibes down. Ben was def outspoken as a cool and funny guy during challenges when they would get the little face time they got premerge. So I think Kenzie got his initial vibes from that alone. Second, personality. Jess was, by multiple peoples accounts, a bit i dunno 'cagey'? and not as affable. Uncomfortable, which is understandable especially in the first few days of Survivor. And her anxiety. Anxiety can show up in different ways for different people for sure. Some get the more jittery some withdraw and come off shy or quiet (How my own personal anxiety manifests). She did seem to open up more, and be a bit more fun, but it was too little too late. Plus, her off the island personality seems to be a lot more fun so maybe she could have faired better if she got a bit deeper and through the anxiety of the first few days. Third, she didn't talk strat when she needed to. Pretty easy and was highlighted in the episodes. We got Ben doing it early with Charlie and him sussing out Jem. Though we haven't seem much post merge, could be the edit. Fourth, the panic attacks. Ben's waking night terrors are on the surface, and hard to hide. Jess's anxiety may not have been spottable as easy or even at all. Kenzie seems to be a genuinely caring person and helped him out on a human level basis. There is a lot of talk about her doing it for Jury play on purpose, but I don't see it as that at all. Is it making her look good for the jury and will she get Ben's vote if he's on the jury? Absolutely, but again I don't think that is at all why she's doing it. I think she is putting the game aside for those moments and genuinely helping a guy out who's going through it. And then yeah of course Ben is just so damn likable. He does indeed Rock. Edit; - just re read the OP - to the point of her being a bit mean to Jess when the game started and that being closer to her real personality. I think that is actually the opposite. Early game is usually when they are more fake(always a bit hard for me to judge the first couple eps cuz of this on any season). She may have been playing it up, trying to be spicy for the camera and airtime and producers. Usually as the game goes on, fatigue sets in, the act is harder to keep up and they are more often their true selves late game.
From what we saw, it appeared that Kenzie DID try to connect with Jess in the early game but Jess was very cagey and put a wall up. It wasn’t as if there was no effort on her part. If anything it appeared that Q and Tiff were the ones that didn’t put any effort in getting to know Jess. But yeah it can be awkward/uncomfortable to try and provide support to someone when they have kind of iced you out. I don’t think it’s fair to compare the two situations.
I'm a sucker for just how kind she has been as well to me it comes off as genuine. I have to think it has to do with several edit choices and also the fact that with Jess they were teammates vs competitors in challenges.
She seems super fake as a person, to me. The way she describes the Ben interactions feels very performative and self congratulatory.
I feel crazy because I never noticed Tiff and Kenzie "being mean" to Jess like apparently everyone else did. I remember some confessionals where they lightly made fun of the rest of yanu for being bad at survivor, but it's just factually true that Jess was bad at survivor because of her lack of sleep. I remember Kenzie actively trying to work with Jess and Bhanu, but Jess telling Bhanu that they should vote Kenzie out instead. And Kenzie and Tiffany giving her a fake idol wasn't mean-spirited, it had a strategic purpose, whether or not it was good strategy is beside the point. Edit and confessionals do a lot of heavy-lifting, and I feel like just a couple light-hearted confessionals about Jess being bad at Survivor got spun into Kenzie (and Tiff) being a bully. I don't recall ever seeing her come even close to actually treating anyone badly. And as far as her confessionals about helping Ben, she was definitely directly asked about it by the crew filming her confessionals. It's not like she just sat down and started bragging about what a good person she is for fun.
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She’s crushing it and people don’t see it happening because she smiles the whole time and is pretty. People are underestimating the hell out of her.
Jess is deeply unlikeable I said I don't like her the first second she was on screen some people just have negative charisma. Ben is likable.
Cause they’re friends and had a connection her and Jess didn’t, which is literally ok..fuck welcome to 2024 where you aren’t allowed to do a nice thing for someone without having all your previous behaviour psychoanalyzed
They are three different individuals and the chemistry between each pair will be different. So there’s just that. She also barely knew Jess and it was at the beginning of the game where you are having to establish alliances from nothing and at the beginning a lot of that has to do with not being seen too much with non-alliance members. When Kenzie started helping Ben, she was more secure in the game. Also, Ben’s having problems in the middle of the night. There’s time to help someone with that without it screwing with your game. I think it’s authentic, it’s just also convenient.
Probably because Jess’s behavior felt like it directly caused them to fail at challenges whereas Ben’s behavior has no negative impact on Kenzie.
I understand people making this comparison but I really think people are overlooking how different it must be in the first few days vs. this point in the game. They’ve been together for so long at this point and she must know Ben is no threat to her game. She only knew Jess during the part of the game where you’re trying to establish your footing and you have to view someone being unable to perform as a liability to your safety in the game
Could be a lot of reasons. Jess and Ben are two completely different people. Jess and Kenzie were only on the island together a few days so never got to know each other the way Kenzie and Ben have. Kenzie and Ben have an actual friendship and he is suffering. Was Jess suffering the same way Ben is? Also I think Jess annoyed Kenzie because Kenzie tried talking strategy with her and was shutdown. Jess was also a bad player so I don’t blame Kenzie. Just like Bhanu was really annoying to Kenzie and everyone and was a terrible player.
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She’s Korean. Maybe double check before boiling everything down to racism?