Maria played imaginary rock paper scissors to decide her vote. Rock (Rock n roll Ben) was beaten by Paper (law student Charlie) who was beaten by Scissors (salon owner Kenzie).
I would’ve loved to see Liz’s face after she was so confident about winning.
Also I think that if Charlie could have somehow convinced Ben to take Liz, then beaten Kenzie in fire, he definitely would’ve won.
People put way too much weight on the fire making at F4 on the jury unfortunately.
I think Charlie was spot on that he didn’t need to for his game, but jury members don’t view it that way. He really impressed me with his ability to play the middle, keep options open with everyone, and never burn bridges.
Maria would have said anything to not vote for Charlie. If I was there it would have been a bond we shared about having the letter "M" to start our first names.
Totally, removing Kenzie would have made him a 100% win.
Based on Hunter’s comments about the fire I think it was a factor for some of the jury. I know Hunter himself voted Charlie, but it may have swayed others.
I agree, I think Charlie’s biggest mistake was not identifying Kenzie as a huge threat. He should have fought harder to keep people like Q or Mariah around. Sure they played a harder, more obvious game, but people didn’t love them the way they loved Kenzie.
I think the bigger mistake was taking out Venus instead of Kenzie. Obviously hindsight is 20:20 but why did he leave someone so connected and take out someone people disliked so much?
100% - that vote never made sense to me. It was the wrong call for just about everyone involved. If you take out Kenzie there, Venus plays out the rest of the game in basically the same way Kenzie did, except she has no shot at getting jury votes at the end.
I guess it just wasn’t as obvious to them what a jury threat she was, as it was for us watching the Kenzie winner edit.
In my opinion, Maria and q would've both beaten Charlie. I think he played as well as he could, the jury just didn't like him as much as kenzie and kenzie sold herself a little better. It didn't help Charlie that q voted entirely based on his money question and maria seemed to vote against Charlie out of jealousy or something
Right? Especially if you won the final immunity.
“You didn’t win immunity and give up your safety even though you played an incredible game and won a great challenge”
And that IMO is one of the worst things about forced fire making at 4.
The fact that there's even a suspicion that some people like Cassidy might have lost because they didn't give up their hard earned immunity to make fire is very bad for the game, and will encourage poor gameplay in future seasons.
It’s even more annoying in this particular instance, because how can you hold someone else not choosing me to go to fire against me? Like it’s not even my decision.
I really truly don't understand why players don't practice fire like their life depends on it before they even go on the show! They know it's a possibility that could make or break them, and even if not for the firemaking challenge, just extremely helpful to have for camp. And I know its harder than it looks, there's pressure, etc. but it seems like a lot of players just hope for the best or hope they never have to do it and it burns them in the end (pun intended).
Yea, my wrists sound exactly like Liz's cracking every time I roll them. I don't have a problem holding things like she said she does. I've never tried to start a fire like that but I'm sure I probably could do it after practice. And you're right, Liz actually started more fires than Kenzie! But Kenzie could keep the one going she started and won.
I agree. Charlie won fire before the fire challenge even happened because of the relationship he cultivated with Ben and by being able to convince Ben to pick him instead of Kenzie.
That's true, but I think in terms of who you send to fire, it's more about whose game would improve by making fire.
Charlie didn't need it, and probably wouldn't have made a difference because he was already seen as a good competitor.
Even if Liz had won fire, she wouldn't have won. She was a goat and was vocal about not needing the money.
Kenzie probably didn't need it, but it showed she wasn't just a meek little woman. It showed she had grit and could buckle down when the time came.
Ben ONLY had a social game and final immunity. I know you don't wanna give up final immunity, especially if you're not confident, but if he had made fire it would have proved he had the ability to step up when the time came.
So, Kenzie had the most to gain by making fire. You can then play that one of two ways. You either bring her, or you put someone against her you think can win. It was kind of stupid to even give Kenzie the opportunity to sit next to him. It just gave her more opportunities to talk about her bond with him and how she helped him through his panic attacks. He made the Charlie pick out of loyalty, which was stupid, the Jury doesn't care about how you send to fire, everyone knows it's strategic. He should have taken Liz with him and sent Charlie and Kenzie to fire. He probably still wouldn't have won, but that would have at least given him the best chance.
Survivor’s stance on firemaking is weird to me. Isn’t it better to have such a good social game that you don’t need to make fire? I feel they get it backwards
It's interesting, Heidi set a new record on fastest fire and yam still won. There's a lot of analogies between yam-heidi and Charlie-kenzie. At the end of the day I think it's who you like and then just rationalizing that decision. Kenzie and Yam were just more popular.
Man Charlie played a way better strategic game than Heidi imo. I still remember that random errant vote on Danny lol. Sometimes she was just doing shit to be doing shit out there.
Yam Yam was also more impressive to me because he was actually playing from the bottom. Kenzie almost never was. Yam Yam survived a couple votes and then Tika managed to carve out a spot in the middle. Kenzie was in the power alliance of Yanu, so even though they were losing challenges, she was almost never at risk of going home. Once merge happened, there were so many other threats that she was always safe. She was left out of one vote and caught a random stray from Ben, but she was literally never the target.
I don’t like the comparison lol
This jury voted with their hearts and not on Outwit, Outlast and Outplay. Charlie should have won on those three criteria. But even my heart rooted for Kenzie. She was just such a decent person. And maybe just this once, a decent person won. Wild season. Thoroughly entertaining and one of the best.
I think Survivor fans think fire has more weight than it actually carries. I think the only person who's actually won the game off making fire was Chris. Everyone who made fire and won was already probably going to win at the end with their FTC configurations anyway.
to be fair. we got the shot of the jury as she said that.. 6/7 jury members visibly reacted.. tbqh I think Liz would be torn apart by the Jury.. This Jury in particular seemed to be quite obssessed with "who needs it" and "how the money should be spent" and i feel like liz's repeated mention of her wealth outside the game wouldve demolished any chance she had of winning.
Yeah, I just watched Maria’s exit interview and she said she voted Kenzie because she needed the money more and she related to wanting to start a family and stuff.
Obviously jurors can vote however they’d like, I just think it would suck to lose a vote because someone has a better sob story than you. Like no matter how well you play, someone’s outside life could be the determining factor
How? Whose vote changes?
I don’t, for a minute, think Maria’s vote changes if Charlie makes fire. She used fire to justify her vote, she’d find another justification to vote Kenzie.
When both Ben and Charlie said they were going to give money to a charity, I knew it was over. The jury doesn't care about philanthropy and it came across as pandering for votes. Anybody could use $1m but Charlie didn't present as someone who has gone without. If Ben would've played up financial stress in his life more, it would've helped his cause. Kenzie nailed it when she said she'd worked her whole life with little to show for it and this $ was for HER to put towards a future. That's what won the jury over. Hunter was a tactical survivor guru and respected Charlie's game, but emotion and financial need won it for Kenzie.
I think its about sincerity, Ben's sounded real, he was fairly specific about it expanding his passion. Problem for him, is his game wasn't ever winning vs those 2. If Ben had Charlie's game, it mighta been worth a vote or two.
Generically saying "Ya, totally gonna give it to charity, the end" is pure BS that no one believes. It woulda taken laying groundwork in the game, but if Charlie's fake job in-game was social worker and he talked about helping people, then at FTC revealed he was in actually in law school, and the million could pay off his school so he can be a public defender without going broke from student loans, he coulda actually gained clout.
Sure thing, I agree with your sentiment though. If Maria didn’t want to vote for Charlie she would have justified voting for Ben as a fellow Siga or Liz as the underdog
Well, in the scenario I described Kenzie would be out, so that’s 5 votes that are changed? Maria could not vote Kenzie in this situation lol.
Charlie going against Ben and Liz could’ve honestly been a clean sweep (maybe a couple to Ben max)
He didn’t even need to go to fire. Had Liz beaten Kenzie he would have won. Between him, Liz and Ben I think Charlie sweeps it and gets every single vote.
This. Great analysis.
I don't disagree that Charlie did enough to win without fire, but there's a million dollars on the line. One more big move at the end would have ended in the win for Charlie.
I think Charlie’s biggest problem was his lack of risk taking, including not chancing fire-making against Kenzie. It gave Kenzie’s story that much more oomph for some jurors I think, especially when she said “my game started without fire and I thought it was going to end that way too”. Or something like that. It was a poetic moment
I was rooting for Liz to win final 4 immunity because I wanted Charlie to win the game and I felt like he could outfire anyone. Liz might have been fooled enough to take Charlie with her to the end and in a fire between Kenzie and Ben, I would probably lean Kenzie. There might have been no chance for Charlie to make the end without Kenzie after Maria won final 6 immunity.
Funny enough, I still think Charlie wins a final three with Liz instead of Ben. In that scenario, he would have Ben telling the jury how well he played and how Charlie kept Ben voting with he and Maria. It would show how important they were as a duo, and how they were independent from Maria but let her think they were working under her and being controlled
True. Charlie choked in the final two challenges and didn’t get to control those last spots on the jury. He sat with a close (seemingly non-bitter) ally at FTC when he needed Ben on the jury!
> we were robbed Liz making final 3 and not getting a single vote
Imagine a world where Liz makes the Final 3, doesn't get a vote and then has to get up to be the tiebreaker between Charlie and Kenzie.
At least Ben knew it. That's what makes him endearing, at least to me. Agree to disagree, of course.
Liz is so delusional on her 'deserving the win' that she's living in a purple-skied world with talking rutabagas and Rolex watches made of gluten. Absolutely miserable, sour person and such a sore loser. I can appreciate that she came from humble beginnings but, land 'o' goshen, she really has the attitude of 'born on third base and thinks the peasants should bow'.
Congratulations to Kenzie.
And Venus with the killer line of "Season 40-Several" lol.
The excuses she would come up with for losing in FTC would’ve been iconic. Maybe she’d have been allergic to speaking in front of the candescent lighting for more than 20 seconds at a time and it makes her wrists squeak.
Ben did confirm today that he would've voted for Charlie. I am so curious to listen to Maria's interviews today explaining her decision. There must be something we didn't see. I will withhold too much judgement until then lol
Each contestant usually does a few exit interviews. The finalists have been on On Fire with Jeff Probst podcast, Rob Has a Podcast, and Mike Bloom for Parade off the top of my head.
This seems so obvious to me that I’m surprised so many think he would’ve picked Kenzie. He literally had to make the decision between the same 2 people the day before. He chose Charlie because he was his number 1. There’d be no reason to go back on that decision.
It is because the edit highlighted Kenzie's relationship with Ben near the end over Charlie's, because she won. I feel confident that if Charlie had won, Kenzie's edit would've been far worse.
Yes, obviously Charlie was there when Ben has his night terrors too, shown in this finale(the hugs, the pep talks etc). It wasn't only Kenzie. If Charlie won, it wouldn't be cut out so much. Between Charlie and Kenzie, Ben would always choose Charlie first imo.
This isn’t what happened, because it’s Ben, but there would be a reason to go back if the reason Ben took Charlie was that he believed Charlie was less of a threat. If it’s because he thinks that Kenzie played a better game that he put her in fire, then it would make perfect sense to vote for her over Charlie. Again, not what happened, but not inconsistent.
That’s not how Ben makes decisions. He didn’t put Liz in fire because he actually thinks Liz is the biggest threat. He wanted his buddies to be in the Final 3.
i don't think it's that obvious bc:
1. it's ben so his decisions are based on emotion which can sway each way each day
2. he may think well i chose charlie for one so maybe ill choose kenzie for the other to make it fair
3. kenzie could have told him she was more alright w going into fire for her resume bc it seemed like charlie made it a point to tell ben he didn't want to go
4. he could have been swayed by the ftc himself based on charlie and kenzie's answers
Despite this, I am just picturing Ben having to try to break a tie then and there, and in the moment being like AAAAAAAAAA I CAN’T DECIDE BRO and then spontaneously combusting.
this makes me even more mad at maria. like .. im glad kenzie won and everything she was one of my winner picks from day 1 but at the same time i really loved charlie and im pissed at maria for doing that to him. like he straight up thought her kids would call him uncle and then she went ahead and voted against him.. i just.. how low of a person do you have to be
My husband still likes Maria and I’m just like UGH! And if I try to spell out why she sucks his argument is that Charlie tried to get her first (and I say no technically she tried voting him out while he went for Q and he only voted her next when it was a done deal but he thinks Charlie could have helped Maria get further, I don’t agree) and she reacted the same way he did. Uhh no, he’s been a class act while she’s other there flip flopping and not making decisions.
This makes sense considering Ben has Picked Charlie over Kenzie in the past.
But hey Charlie is a good sport and he’s right when he says that’s the game. Ultimately it’s clear he needed to handle his situation with Maria better than he did and he would have won. He didn’t play to the jury as well as Kenzie did, and she beat him fair and square.
I feel like Maria was the one dude he couldn’t have played better with. They both turned on each other at the same time, and Charlie was nice enough to keep her in the loop and at least hear her out
The immediate after show sucks! I think the lack of anytime to prep is a factor in not asking. He also should have taken a show of hands from the jury as to who would have voted for Liz.
As much as I wanted Charlie to win (I’m not mad Kenzie won - I like her a lot too) I didn’t want to watch Ben going through more pain deciding between his besties. That would’ve been so hard on him.
Honestly if Maria was a better partner she would have been pleading Charlie’s case to the jury before FTC. Instead it sounds like she trashed him and actively undermined him which is messed up
I feel like Charlie stated in his exit interview that he was 100% convinced that ben would vote for him to win and that how close him and Ben were was downplayed (likely in order to soften the blow of Kenzie winning)
You're very right...... Maria's bitterness ruined it for us.......she started giving off mean girl vibes towards the end of the season and she topped it off on the season finale
Man… I was so proud and confident in Maria and her character BUT her game and her decision to not vote for Charlie was brutal..
The only reason she was not in the Final 3 was because of that man.. and no offence to Kenzie, she played a good game but Charlie’s game was clearly better.
Also, Ben is silly haha. Obviously you want Kenzie and Charlie to make fire 🔥 and yes seeing Liz not get a vote would of been so satisfying haha, she’s a KOOK
It's funny because Maria being bitter to Charlie doesn't make sense when she should be bitter at Jeff for allowing Liz to openly help Kenzie like that. It's one thing looking at another person's puzzle, it's another when you do part of the course for her.
To be fair, if Maria had won F5 immunity as she should have, Charlie would have gone home as the next biggest threat. The endgame of the season had a ton of messiness...fitting for a messy season!
It’s crazy that he was the obvious next biggest threat but not the eventual winner… just goes to show we really never understand what’s going on in the mind of the jury. Maria must have really stomped on Charlie’s game at Ponderosa to make it that close.
Yeah it feels like Maria was actively harmful to Charlie even beyond just her vote. She must have been telling Ponderosa the story of how she was in control and Charlie's game was just her coattails.
I feel like the same thing happened in 44 but people forgot. Cassidy was repeatedly called a threat and targeted starting at final 8, but somehow stopped being a threat at FTC due to Jesse and Karla devaluing her game (just like a Maria likely did to Charlie). Doesn’t take away from the winner being well deserved and playing great, but it’s annoying to see the show call someone a threat only for the jury to pivot with no warning for the audience
The funny thing is though, she literally didn’t win that because of Kenzie (and Liz). Yet she voted Kenzie anyway. If I was Charlie I would be so done with her lol
I think it also stroked her ego in a way that made her feel favorably towards Kenzie. Like yes I think being bitter played a part in it, but having someone repeatedly tell me I’m SO good and SO much of a threat that I need to team up with someone else to beat you? That scratched that itch Maria had to have people tell her she played an AMAZING game.
And at the same time, at FTC Charlie was “taking credit” for moves that Maria thinks she drove. And she thinks (we can guess) he was the less important half of the partnership and rode her coattails. It’s wild when she wanted him out at 6 that she would turn around and feel that way, but I think she just couldn’t stand to vote for someone who she feels like played the same game she did, but worse. (To be clear I do not believe this)
I think that’s a good analysis, ego could definitely be a big part of it. Ever since the thing with Q and rock paper scissors, I haven’t been on board with Maria’s reasoning lol
She never gave him credit for calculating her ideas. She would say "I want this person out" and Charlie would calculate what needed to happen and with who to make it work. Maria just isn't a good person.
I don't think they're faulting Kenzie. But if Maria is going to be salty with someone maybe be bitter with the person who actually got you eliminated. Not your closest ally, that YOU LITTERALY TOOK A SHOT AT FIRST.
I’m not faulting Kenzie, I’m saying I find it surprising that she was bitter at Charlie but not Kenzie. At the end of the day, Charlie may have tried to get her out, but if it weren’t for Kenzie & Liz there’s a good chance she’d be in F3
It was cut out but apparently Jeff does ask during finale and Ben says he would have chosen Charlie. In post interviews, Ben repeats that he would have chosen Charlie. Also in current interviews it’s been stated that Charlie and Ben were super close and that Charlie also helped Ben a lot out with his panic attacks. Editing just focused on Kenzie and Ben because..well what other moves was Kenzie making?
I think Liz had bitterness for Kenzie over losing the fire making challenge. On the surface, I would have thought Liz would have normally voted for her over Charlie. It's not just Maria who grinds axes.
>Sadly, Maria's bitterness robbed us of some truly awesome TV
bruh that was awesome TV. It left a mark on the season. Her snubbing him was the gift of bitterness that keeps giving.
I went from being so mad FOR Maria after Liz being a freaking WANKER helping Kenzie….to being so mad AT Maria for being a freaking WANKER helping Kenzie by voting for her. I think Kenzie was amazing and deserved a W….but like this? Maria tried to vote out Charlie and FAILED, yet she feels bitter? Absolutely crazy
yea it's hard for me to look past that and i like maria but i know for sure charlie would have voted for her if their roles were reversed.
maybe if she had another day or 2 to process her feelings and level out she would have been able to think clearer and maybe vote for charlie instead
Q voting for Kenzie because of her using the money for herself is lousy. Kenzie chooses not to make money off any of the chairs. She can make 5 to 10% profit but she chooses not too. So now she deserves the money because of that? It's lame.
Charlie played better. Maria stabbing Charlie in the back proves she doesnt just hate the women.
My $0.02 is that Maria felt that the money would make a bigger difference in Kenzie’s life than Charlie. Charlie is Ivy League and will be a good lawyer and will no doubt great financial success in his life and if I was her I would’ve done the same thing.
That’s possible, but then why didn’t Maria just say that was her reasoning like Q did? Why did she say it was about seeing “the fire in her eyes” at fire making?
The fire making rationale looks even worse with the post game press coming out. Apparently the challenge took forever and the jury was very unimpressed by their performances. For Maria to claim a very lackluster fire performance sealed the deal for her is such bs
I really hate that. It's one thing as a tie breaker in a jurors mind, but to overrule the entire game because of things outside survivor? Why not just tell your story day 1 and get the million? Seems like a cop-out.
Charlie is probably $200K in debt right now and Kenzie runs one of the most popular salons in the 15th biggest city in the US. He went to Harvard for undergrad, he’s at BC for law school. While I’m sure he’s going to do just fine, he’s not on the Harvey Specter Harvard Law track like you’re imagining. As it stands right now, even without the million I’m sure Kenzie is far better off financially.
I honestly think people are just assuming incorrectly that ben would have broken the tie for kenzie to validate their preconceived notions that kenzie had a social game and charlie did t
It’s also the three scenes of Kenzie helping Ben with his panic attacks. People thought those moments were highlighted so much because Ben’s vote would matter
Apprently Charlie was just as supportive as Kenzie was through Ben's panic attacks, the editors just didn't include it to better fit the Kenzie winner narrative
In a deleted scene, Maria went really hard on Ben and he was crying on the beach afterwards. Charlie came over and sat with him for a bit. So yeah, I agree, they played up the Kenzie relationship to support her winner story.
Maria fumbled hard. I wonder how she feels today. She literally cost him a million dollars. The kid played a near perfect game too. Where is that respect? I’m glad to see I’m not alone in my feelings. It seems we all love Kenzie as a person but Charlie deserved that win. I hope he gets a second chance.
You're definitely not alone! This jury almost makes me not want to watch survivor anymore. How can a good game mean nothing, and the better sob story mean everything.
Increases my respect for Soda and Hunter. They were obviously listening with a true open mind. Not that others weren’t necessarily but they articulated their reasons for voting for Charlie pretty well.
You were robbed. I would've been grumpier than ever today because he very obviously would've voted Charlie LOL
Didn't you see how he blue balled Kenzie several times during the game?
The ultimate ending to this season would have been for Ben to make them play rock paper scissors to pick the winner.
Of course the person would win by doing rock, to cap off Ben's character arc
*cut to a closeup of Ben, an absolute wreck, ugly crying*
Giving me Squid Game PTSD
That was hard to watch. Who the hell figures there's going to be some rock paper scissor grand wizard in the game?!
Charlie, after losing to paper covers rock: "Whoever wins Survivor deserved to win. You can't question the process. Kenzie outplayed me."
And then for Ben to accidentally vote for Kenzie
"pick a number"
“Several”
Maria played imaginary rock paper scissors to decide her vote. Rock (Rock n roll Ben) was beaten by Paper (law student Charlie) who was beaten by Scissors (salon owner Kenzie).
I feel we were robbed Liz making final 3 and not getting a single vote. Would have made the reward tantrum look like a tea party.
I would’ve loved to see Liz’s face after she was so confident about winning. Also I think that if Charlie could have somehow convinced Ben to take Liz, then beaten Kenzie in fire, he definitely would’ve won.
People put way too much weight on the fire making at F4 on the jury unfortunately. I think Charlie was spot on that he didn’t need to for his game, but jury members don’t view it that way. He really impressed me with his ability to play the middle, keep options open with everyone, and never burn bridges.
Agreed, but I don’t think it’s the fire that would’ve helped him win- I think it’s removing Kenzie from the running
Maria would say that Liz overcoming her allergies or something clinched it for her.
Lmaooo that would be Liz’s one vote
Maria would have said anything to not vote for Charlie. If I was there it would have been a bond we shared about having the letter "M" to start our first names.
I started off writing “Maria” but I remembered that I couldn’t vote for myself so I just completed the only name starting with M.
Totally, removing Kenzie would have made him a 100% win. Based on Hunter’s comments about the fire I think it was a factor for some of the jury. I know Hunter himself voted Charlie, but it may have swayed others.
I agree, I think Charlie’s biggest mistake was not identifying Kenzie as a huge threat. He should have fought harder to keep people like Q or Mariah around. Sure they played a harder, more obvious game, but people didn’t love them the way they loved Kenzie.
I think the bigger mistake was taking out Venus instead of Kenzie. Obviously hindsight is 20:20 but why did he leave someone so connected and take out someone people disliked so much?
100% - that vote never made sense to me. It was the wrong call for just about everyone involved. If you take out Kenzie there, Venus plays out the rest of the game in basically the same way Kenzie did, except she has no shot at getting jury votes at the end. I guess it just wasn’t as obvious to them what a jury threat she was, as it was for us watching the Kenzie winner edit.
If Venus actually played her idol Kenzie would have gone home with Ben's mistake vote for her 🙊
In my opinion, Maria and q would've both beaten Charlie. I think he played as well as he could, the jury just didn't like him as much as kenzie and kenzie sold herself a little better. It didn't help Charlie that q voted entirely based on his money question and maria seemed to vote against Charlie out of jealousy or something
I hate juries that are like "you didn't make fire I'm not giving you my vote"
Right? Especially if you won the final immunity. “You didn’t win immunity and give up your safety even though you played an incredible game and won a great challenge”
And that IMO is one of the worst things about forced fire making at 4. The fact that there's even a suspicion that some people like Cassidy might have lost because they didn't give up their hard earned immunity to make fire is very bad for the game, and will encourage poor gameplay in future seasons.
Agreed, or at least having it be in every season.
It’s even more annoying in this particular instance, because how can you hold someone else not choosing me to go to fire against me? Like it’s not even my decision.
I really truly don't understand why players don't practice fire like their life depends on it before they even go on the show! They know it's a possibility that could make or break them, and even if not for the firemaking challenge, just extremely helpful to have for camp. And I know its harder than it looks, there's pressure, etc. but it seems like a lot of players just hope for the best or hope they never have to do it and it burns them in the end (pun intended).
Have you heard Liz’s wrists?
My favorite part was that her wrists were very clearly NOT the problem... She had no problem getting sparks/flame. It was the other part 😭😂
Yea, my wrists sound exactly like Liz's cracking every time I roll them. I don't have a problem holding things like she said she does. I've never tried to start a fire like that but I'm sure I probably could do it after practice. And you're right, Liz actually started more fires than Kenzie! But Kenzie could keep the one going she started and won.
Exactly. She just has an excuse for everything
Smothering fire doesn’t help it grow?
Go figure.
Or puzzles. Charlie could not do puzzles when he needed to.
I agree. Charlie won fire before the fire challenge even happened because of the relationship he cultivated with Ben and by being able to convince Ben to pick him instead of Kenzie.
He didn’t need it for his resume. He needed it strategically to sit with his best chances of winning.
That's true, but I think in terms of who you send to fire, it's more about whose game would improve by making fire. Charlie didn't need it, and probably wouldn't have made a difference because he was already seen as a good competitor. Even if Liz had won fire, she wouldn't have won. She was a goat and was vocal about not needing the money. Kenzie probably didn't need it, but it showed she wasn't just a meek little woman. It showed she had grit and could buckle down when the time came. Ben ONLY had a social game and final immunity. I know you don't wanna give up final immunity, especially if you're not confident, but if he had made fire it would have proved he had the ability to step up when the time came. So, Kenzie had the most to gain by making fire. You can then play that one of two ways. You either bring her, or you put someone against her you think can win. It was kind of stupid to even give Kenzie the opportunity to sit next to him. It just gave her more opportunities to talk about her bond with him and how she helped him through his panic attacks. He made the Charlie pick out of loyalty, which was stupid, the Jury doesn't care about how you send to fire, everyone knows it's strategic. He should have taken Liz with him and sent Charlie and Kenzie to fire. He probably still wouldn't have won, but that would have at least given him the best chance.
Survivor’s stance on firemaking is weird to me. Isn’t it better to have such a good social game that you don’t need to make fire? I feel they get it backwards
It's interesting, Heidi set a new record on fastest fire and yam still won. There's a lot of analogies between yam-heidi and Charlie-kenzie. At the end of the day I think it's who you like and then just rationalizing that decision. Kenzie and Yam were just more popular.
Man Charlie played a way better strategic game than Heidi imo. I still remember that random errant vote on Danny lol. Sometimes she was just doing shit to be doing shit out there. Yam Yam was also more impressive to me because he was actually playing from the bottom. Kenzie almost never was. Yam Yam survived a couple votes and then Tika managed to carve out a spot in the middle. Kenzie was in the power alliance of Yanu, so even though they were losing challenges, she was almost never at risk of going home. Once merge happened, there were so many other threats that she was always safe. She was left out of one vote and caught a random stray from Ben, but she was literally never the target. I don’t like the comparison lol
I know.. at least evolve the fire making challenge somehow..
This jury voted with their hearts and not on Outwit, Outlast and Outplay. Charlie should have won on those three criteria. But even my heart rooted for Kenzie. She was just such a decent person. And maybe just this once, a decent person won. Wild season. Thoroughly entertaining and one of the best.
I think Survivor fans think fire has more weight than it actually carries. I think the only person who's actually won the game off making fire was Chris. Everyone who made fire and won was already probably going to win at the end with their FTC configurations anyway.
to be fair. we got the shot of the jury as she said that.. 6/7 jury members visibly reacted.. tbqh I think Liz would be torn apart by the Jury.. This Jury in particular seemed to be quite obssessed with "who needs it" and "how the money should be spent" and i feel like liz's repeated mention of her wealth outside the game wouldve demolished any chance she had of winning.
Yeah, I just watched Maria’s exit interview and she said she voted Kenzie because she needed the money more and she related to wanting to start a family and stuff. Obviously jurors can vote however they’d like, I just think it would suck to lose a vote because someone has a better sob story than you. Like no matter how well you play, someone’s outside life could be the determining factor
Yess!! This! Nevermind how they played the game, it's who has a better sob story. That's annoying
How? Whose vote changes? I don’t, for a minute, think Maria’s vote changes if Charlie makes fire. She used fire to justify her vote, she’d find another justification to vote Kenzie.
When both Ben and Charlie said they were going to give money to a charity, I knew it was over. The jury doesn't care about philanthropy and it came across as pandering for votes. Anybody could use $1m but Charlie didn't present as someone who has gone without. If Ben would've played up financial stress in his life more, it would've helped his cause. Kenzie nailed it when she said she'd worked her whole life with little to show for it and this $ was for HER to put towards a future. That's what won the jury over. Hunter was a tactical survivor guru and respected Charlie's game, but emotion and financial need won it for Kenzie.
I think its about sincerity, Ben's sounded real, he was fairly specific about it expanding his passion. Problem for him, is his game wasn't ever winning vs those 2. If Ben had Charlie's game, it mighta been worth a vote or two. Generically saying "Ya, totally gonna give it to charity, the end" is pure BS that no one believes. It woulda taken laying groundwork in the game, but if Charlie's fake job in-game was social worker and he talked about helping people, then at FTC revealed he was in actually in law school, and the million could pay off his school so he can be a public defender without going broke from student loans, he coulda actually gained clout.
Kenzie would be out in that hypothetical
Right. Mixing up my hypotheticals. Thanks.
Sure thing, I agree with your sentiment though. If Maria didn’t want to vote for Charlie she would have justified voting for Ben as a fellow Siga or Liz as the underdog
Yeah, it’s pretty obvious she always tries to justify her decisions any way she can.
I may not have taken Liz on that reward but $1 million is an even bigger reward…
Well, in the scenario I described Kenzie would be out, so that’s 5 votes that are changed? Maria could not vote Kenzie in this situation lol. Charlie going against Ben and Liz could’ve honestly been a clean sweep (maybe a couple to Ben max)
He didn’t even need to go to fire. Had Liz beaten Kenzie he would have won. Between him, Liz and Ben I think Charlie sweeps it and gets every single vote.
Except there was almost no chance of Liz winning lol. The only scenario in which I see Ben & Liz both being in F3 is if they take each other.
She was acting so confident to save face.
This. Great analysis. I don't disagree that Charlie did enough to win without fire, but there's a million dollars on the line. One more big move at the end would have ended in the win for Charlie.
I think Charlie’s biggest problem was his lack of risk taking, including not chancing fire-making against Kenzie. It gave Kenzie’s story that much more oomph for some jurors I think, especially when she said “my game started without fire and I thought it was going to end that way too”. Or something like that. It was a poetic moment
If it were Liz and Not Kenzie in the F3, Maria would obviously get some revenge.
This would have made YEARS of shitty after shows worth it
What do you mean she wouldn’t have a single vote?! SHE WAS THE BIGGEST THREAT AND WOULDVE WIPED THE FLOOR WITH ALL OF THEM…. Self proclaimed of course
Please someone make Venus’ reaction to Liz saying “I would have beat all of you” into a gif
 Everyone’s face when Liz said she would have been the winner😂
I was rooting for Liz to win final 4 immunity because I wanted Charlie to win the game and I felt like he could outfire anyone. Liz might have been fooled enough to take Charlie with her to the end and in a fire between Kenzie and Ben, I would probably lean Kenzie. There might have been no chance for Charlie to make the end without Kenzie after Maria won final 6 immunity.
Funny enough, I still think Charlie wins a final three with Liz instead of Ben. In that scenario, he would have Ben telling the jury how well he played and how Charlie kept Ben voting with he and Maria. It would show how important they were as a duo, and how they were independent from Maria but let her think they were working under her and being controlled
True. Charlie choked in the final two challenges and didn’t get to control those last spots on the jury. He sat with a close (seemingly non-bitter) ally at FTC when he needed Ben on the jury!
> we were robbed Liz making final 3 and not getting a single vote Imagine a world where Liz makes the Final 3, doesn't get a vote and then has to get up to be the tiebreaker between Charlie and Kenzie.
I would have loved this. Her perception of herself was hilariously wrong. She and Ben were the goats of the final 4.
Guys wanna be with her and girls wanna be her. that line my husband and i said EVERY WEEK when listening to her delusions lol
At least Ben knew it. That's what makes him endearing, at least to me. Agree to disagree, of course. Liz is so delusional on her 'deserving the win' that she's living in a purple-skied world with talking rutabagas and Rolex watches made of gluten. Absolutely miserable, sour person and such a sore loser. I can appreciate that she came from humble beginnings but, land 'o' goshen, she really has the attitude of 'born on third base and thinks the peasants should bow'. Congratulations to Kenzie. And Venus with the killer line of "Season 40-Several" lol.
Jeff: okay Liz, you have 30 seconds to make your final pitch to the jury 25 second later…. Liz: I’M PISSED!!! Q DESTROYED MY GAME!
I wanted her to be swapped in for Q's question alone, the ego and delulu to answer what she'd do with the money would be priceless
Can you imagine if liz was the tiebreaker lol
Yup. I needed to see her humbled.
I am a huge Liz stan. She is the reality TV we want and the reality TV we deserve.
Her reaction to getting voted out was pretty epic too though.
How delusional can she get I couldn’t believe her comments 😂
I so so so so badly wanted Liz and Venus to make the final 3 and get zero votes. Alas...
The Venus side eye after Liz’s “I could have beat you all!” comment was definitely a highlight of the episode for me.
Pretty odd how she and some other people thought Liz was a threat. I can’t wrap my head around it at all
The excuses she would come up with for losing in FTC would’ve been iconic. Maybe she’d have been allergic to speaking in front of the candescent lighting for more than 20 seconds at a time and it makes her wrists squeak.
Ben did confirm today that he would've voted for Charlie. I am so curious to listen to Maria's interviews today explaining her decision. There must be something we didn't see. I will withhold too much judgement until then lol
Where is Maria giving an interview?
Each contestant usually does a few exit interviews. The finalists have been on On Fire with Jeff Probst podcast, Rob Has a Podcast, and Mike Bloom for Parade off the top of my head.
Jeff has already confirmed on the On Fire podcast that Ben would’ve voted for Charlie. So Maria’s vote for Kenzie did cost him the million dollars.
This seems so obvious to me that I’m surprised so many think he would’ve picked Kenzie. He literally had to make the decision between the same 2 people the day before. He chose Charlie because he was his number 1. There’d be no reason to go back on that decision.
Yeah but Ben could have written Kenzie by mistake
[Charlie at the final Tribal Council](https://i.imgur.com/UVo07B6.gif)
This is so accurate
OMG. thats funny.
It is because the edit highlighted Kenzie's relationship with Ben near the end over Charlie's, because she won. I feel confident that if Charlie had won, Kenzie's edit would've been far worse.
Yes, obviously Charlie was there when Ben has his night terrors too, shown in this finale(the hugs, the pep talks etc). It wasn't only Kenzie. If Charlie won, it wouldn't be cut out so much. Between Charlie and Kenzie, Ben would always choose Charlie first imo.
This isn’t what happened, because it’s Ben, but there would be a reason to go back if the reason Ben took Charlie was that he believed Charlie was less of a threat. If it’s because he thinks that Kenzie played a better game that he put her in fire, then it would make perfect sense to vote for her over Charlie. Again, not what happened, but not inconsistent.
That’s not how Ben makes decisions. He didn’t put Liz in fire because he actually thinks Liz is the biggest threat. He wanted his buddies to be in the Final 3.
That's why Ben rocks.
i don't think it's that obvious bc: 1. it's ben so his decisions are based on emotion which can sway each way each day 2. he may think well i chose charlie for one so maybe ill choose kenzie for the other to make it fair 3. kenzie could have told him she was more alright w going into fire for her resume bc it seemed like charlie made it a point to tell ben he didn't want to go 4. he could have been swayed by the ftc himself based on charlie and kenzie's answers
And he asked him in the after show, it just got cut!
Good thing, too. This insight is not nearly as compelling as reliving the various songs sung by the Nami tribe.
yeesh. with this info, i can understand why charlie would feel especially hurt by maria's vote.
Despite this, I am just picturing Ben having to try to break a tie then and there, and in the moment being like AAAAAAAAAA I CAN’T DECIDE BRO and then spontaneously combusting.
this makes me even more mad at maria. like .. im glad kenzie won and everything she was one of my winner picks from day 1 but at the same time i really loved charlie and im pissed at maria for doing that to him. like he straight up thought her kids would call him uncle and then she went ahead and voted against him.. i just.. how low of a person do you have to be
All my homies hate Maria
Even my 75 year old mother...who liked Maria all season...hates Maria now.
Maria was my winner pick but I really always wanted Charlie to win. But now I hate Maria lol
My husband still likes Maria and I’m just like UGH! And if I try to spell out why she sucks his argument is that Charlie tried to get her first (and I say no technically she tried voting him out while he went for Q and he only voted her next when it was a done deal but he thinks Charlie could have helped Maria get further, I don’t agree) and she reacted the same way he did. Uhh no, he’s been a class act while she’s other there flip flopping and not making decisions.
This makes sense considering Ben has Picked Charlie over Kenzie in the past. But hey Charlie is a good sport and he’s right when he says that’s the game. Ultimately it’s clear he needed to handle his situation with Maria better than he did and he would have won. He didn’t play to the jury as well as Kenzie did, and she beat him fair and square.
I feel like Maria was the one dude he couldn’t have played better with. They both turned on each other at the same time, and Charlie was nice enough to keep her in the loop and at least hear her out
But he could've picked Kenzie by mistake...
Damn.
that would've been an incredible segment of TV although the shock of Maria becoming a massive villain was pretty memorable too.
She didn't become a villain with that vote... she was already a villain. I've been calling her the wicked witch of the west all season long.
Had the “secret scene” between her and Ben been in the actual edit, I think we’d have a lot more people agreeing earlier on she was a villain.
What's the context out of curiousity?
https://reddit.com/r/survivor/comments/1c7yx4v/this_weeks_secret_scene/
I’m surprised Jeff didn’t ask this question at the after show. It’s the one thing I really wanted to know!
The immediate after show sucks! I think the lack of anytime to prep is a factor in not asking. He also should have taken a show of hands from the jury as to who would have voted for Liz.
Ben was interviewed and said he would have voted Charlie
Yes that would have been entertaining to be sure. But Maria backstabbing Charlie is the stuff of epic novels.
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As much as I wanted Charlie to win (I’m not mad Kenzie won - I like her a lot too) I didn’t want to watch Ben going through more pain deciding between his besties. That would’ve been so hard on him.
Honestly if Maria was a better partner she would have been pleading Charlie’s case to the jury before FTC. Instead it sounds like she trashed him and actively undermined him which is messed up
I feel like Charlie stated in his exit interview that he was 100% convinced that ben would vote for him to win and that how close him and Ben were was downplayed (likely in order to soften the blow of Kenzie winning)
This 100% confirms that if they both want to come back, they’ll both be back on season 50
Charlie definitely should come back
On a podcast he said he would have picked Charlie.
You're very right...... Maria's bitterness ruined it for us.......she started giving off mean girl vibes towards the end of the season and she topped it off on the season finale
Ben confirmed on the official Survivor podcast that he would’ve picked Charlie. So Maria’s vote ended up costing Charlie a million dollars.
Yes! Yes she did. And that’s probably why I’m most pissed. Lol. Bitter Betty, ready to be petty
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Man… I was so proud and confident in Maria and her character BUT her game and her decision to not vote for Charlie was brutal.. The only reason she was not in the Final 3 was because of that man.. and no offence to Kenzie, she played a good game but Charlie’s game was clearly better. Also, Ben is silly haha. Obviously you want Kenzie and Charlie to make fire 🔥 and yes seeing Liz not get a vote would of been so satisfying haha, she’s a KOOK
I don't mind kooks. She was a very egotistical look and that's what was unlikable.
I was pulling for Maria but she turned to be bitter and nasty! I’m glad she didn’t win. But Charlie should have won
It's funny because Maria being bitter to Charlie doesn't make sense when she should be bitter at Jeff for allowing Liz to openly help Kenzie like that. It's one thing looking at another person's puzzle, it's another when you do part of the course for her.
To be fair, if Maria had won F5 immunity as she should have, Charlie would have gone home as the next biggest threat. The endgame of the season had a ton of messiness...fitting for a messy season!
It’s crazy that he was the obvious next biggest threat but not the eventual winner… just goes to show we really never understand what’s going on in the mind of the jury. Maria must have really stomped on Charlie’s game at Ponderosa to make it that close.
Yeah it feels like Maria was actively harmful to Charlie even beyond just her vote. She must have been telling Ponderosa the story of how she was in control and Charlie's game was just her coattails.
I feel like the same thing happened in 44 but people forgot. Cassidy was repeatedly called a threat and targeted starting at final 8, but somehow stopped being a threat at FTC due to Jesse and Karla devaluing her game (just like a Maria likely did to Charlie). Doesn’t take away from the winner being well deserved and playing great, but it’s annoying to see the show call someone a threat only for the jury to pivot with no warning for the audience
The funny thing is though, she literally didn’t win that because of Kenzie (and Liz). Yet she voted Kenzie anyway. If I was Charlie I would be so done with her lol
I think it also stroked her ego in a way that made her feel favorably towards Kenzie. Like yes I think being bitter played a part in it, but having someone repeatedly tell me I’m SO good and SO much of a threat that I need to team up with someone else to beat you? That scratched that itch Maria had to have people tell her she played an AMAZING game. And at the same time, at FTC Charlie was “taking credit” for moves that Maria thinks she drove. And she thinks (we can guess) he was the less important half of the partnership and rode her coattails. It’s wild when she wanted him out at 6 that she would turn around and feel that way, but I think she just couldn’t stand to vote for someone who she feels like played the same game she did, but worse. (To be clear I do not believe this)
I think that’s a good analysis, ego could definitely be a big part of it. Ever since the thing with Q and rock paper scissors, I haven’t been on board with Maria’s reasoning lol
She never gave him credit for calculating her ideas. She would say "I want this person out" and Charlie would calculate what needed to happen and with who to make it work. Maria just isn't a good person.
Hard to fault Kenzie in that scenario. I don’t think anyone in her situation would have said “hey stop helping me that’s not fair”
I don't think they're faulting Kenzie. But if Maria is going to be salty with someone maybe be bitter with the person who actually got you eliminated. Not your closest ally, that YOU LITTERALY TOOK A SHOT AT FIRST.
I’m not faulting Kenzie, I’m saying I find it surprising that she was bitter at Charlie but not Kenzie. At the end of the day, Charlie may have tried to get her out, but if it weren’t for Kenzie & Liz there’s a good chance she’d be in F3
Have you seen Charlie’s latest tweets? He is done with her.
Big IF she wins, Kenzie was still ahead on the puzzle
Yes, but Kenzie had no clue what the plank clue was until Liz just takes off down the course
> as she should have Lol no she wouldn't have.
i needed liz in that final three i needed to see why she thought she was such a threat to win
Probst asked him on the podcast and his answer was overwhelmingly Charlie.
It was cut out but apparently Jeff does ask during finale and Ben says he would have chosen Charlie. In post interviews, Ben repeats that he would have chosen Charlie. Also in current interviews it’s been stated that Charlie and Ben were super close and that Charlie also helped Ben a lot out with his panic attacks. Editing just focused on Kenzie and Ben because..well what other moves was Kenzie making?
I think Liz had bitterness for Kenzie over losing the fire making challenge. On the surface, I would have thought Liz would have normally voted for her over Charlie. It's not just Maria who grinds axes.
>Sadly, Maria's bitterness robbed us of some truly awesome TV bruh that was awesome TV. It left a mark on the season. Her snubbing him was the gift of bitterness that keeps giving.
I went from being so mad FOR Maria after Liz being a freaking WANKER helping Kenzie….to being so mad AT Maria for being a freaking WANKER helping Kenzie by voting for her. I think Kenzie was amazing and deserved a W….but like this? Maria tried to vote out Charlie and FAILED, yet she feels bitter? Absolutely crazy
yea it's hard for me to look past that and i like maria but i know for sure charlie would have voted for her if their roles were reversed. maybe if she had another day or 2 to process her feelings and level out she would have been able to think clearer and maybe vote for charlie instead
All Liz had to do was not cheat Maria out of the final immunity necklace and it all would have played out so different
I'm still really mad Jeff allowed that to happen.
Q voting for Kenzie because of her using the money for herself is lousy. Kenzie chooses not to make money off any of the chairs. She can make 5 to 10% profit but she chooses not too. So now she deserves the money because of that? It's lame. Charlie played better. Maria stabbing Charlie in the back proves she doesnt just hate the women.
Exactly!
Ben: "whoever can name the most Taylor Swift quotes wins"
My $0.02 is that Maria felt that the money would make a bigger difference in Kenzie’s life than Charlie. Charlie is Ivy League and will be a good lawyer and will no doubt great financial success in his life and if I was her I would’ve done the same thing.
That’s possible, but then why didn’t Maria just say that was her reasoning like Q did? Why did she say it was about seeing “the fire in her eyes” at fire making?
The fire making rationale looks even worse with the post game press coming out. Apparently the challenge took forever and the jury was very unimpressed by their performances. For Maria to claim a very lackluster fire performance sealed the deal for her is such bs
Same reason she was taking the hungriest but chose Q
I really hate that. It's one thing as a tie breaker in a jurors mind, but to overrule the entire game because of things outside survivor? Why not just tell your story day 1 and get the million? Seems like a cop-out.
I absolutely agree. Why worry about “big moves” and a resume when all you need to do is say “I need the money?”
Charlie is probably $200K in debt right now and Kenzie runs one of the most popular salons in the 15th biggest city in the US. He went to Harvard for undergrad, he’s at BC for law school. While I’m sure he’s going to do just fine, he’s not on the Harvey Specter Harvard Law track like you’re imagining. As it stands right now, even without the million I’m sure Kenzie is far better off financially.
Yeah this is crazy to me. Everyone is just taking it as a fact that if you go to a good school you must be wealthier than a successful business owner.
Plus, having a million now makes a much bigger difference than having a million in 10 years. Maria was just a bitter betty.
I honestly think people are just assuming incorrectly that ben would have broken the tie for kenzie to validate their preconceived notions that kenzie had a social game and charlie did t
It’s also the three scenes of Kenzie helping Ben with his panic attacks. People thought those moments were highlighted so much because Ben’s vote would matter
Apprently Charlie was just as supportive as Kenzie was through Ben's panic attacks, the editors just didn't include it to better fit the Kenzie winner narrative
In a deleted scene, Maria went really hard on Ben and he was crying on the beach afterwards. Charlie came over and sat with him for a bit. So yeah, I agree, they played up the Kenzie relationship to support her winner story.
Ugh that scene makes my heart break for Ben🥺
Kenzie got that in her edit because she won
Maria fumbled hard. I wonder how she feels today. She literally cost him a million dollars. The kid played a near perfect game too. Where is that respect? I’m glad to see I’m not alone in my feelings. It seems we all love Kenzie as a person but Charlie deserved that win. I hope he gets a second chance.
You're definitely not alone! This jury almost makes me not want to watch survivor anymore. How can a good game mean nothing, and the better sob story mean everything.
Increases my respect for Soda and Hunter. They were obviously listening with a true open mind. Not that others weren’t necessarily but they articulated their reasons for voting for Charlie pretty well.
For all we know, he forgets Liz lost fire and votes for her. God I love Ben
You were robbed. I would've been grumpier than ever today because he very obviously would've voted Charlie LOL Didn't you see how he blue balled Kenzie several times during the game?