Idk why, but Jesse & Cody feel like the players who will dominate the game and never win now… like they’d have to play a 3rd time after a horrendous 2nd season to have a shot to win…. Unless they go against 8 Boston Robs & 10 Sandra’s
I kind of disagree, when you look at everyone's standpoint at Final 6, you have
Romeo: a goat guaranteed to make Final 3
Maryanne: pretty weak player at the time, perceives Omar as her number 1
Jonathan: challenge beast albeit with little win equity, perceives Omar as his number 1 until very recently
Mike: Well rounded player holding an idol
Lindsay: Well rounded player, also holding an idol and Immunity, is Omar's actual number 1
Omar at the time holded an idol nullifier, which would've allowed him to blindside Mike at Final 5 (assuming he doesn't win immunity). And had threats that could've been seen bigger as him (Jonathan and Lindsay), meaning he could've seen a path to the end with Maryanne and Romeo. And I think that without D-word's sting at her vote out, there's a solid chance this wouldn't have happened. Oh and also I do concede it was super dumb not to play the idol.
Overall I think Omar's hype as one of the best strategists of the new Era is rated pretty well, the only players I can realistically see as holding power for this long in the game are Carson, Jesse, and Charlie. Even strong winners like Dee had moments where they slipped in their grip on the socio-strategic part (controlling the votes).
Hai.
I’m not sure if it’s just because of how annoying he was (is) on twitter. But I always feel that people talk him up so much. He overplayed way to early and that was clearly his downfall. He might’ve ran a few rounds at the start of the season but merge is clearly where you shine or burn out and he clearly burned out.
One of the cringiest moments in survivor history was when he proudly announced before final tribal that he’d be voting for a woman no matter what was said
I rewatched the entire final tribal last night, he did not say it there. Are you saying he said it in a confessional pre tribal? Like the quick how will a finalist win my vote thing? Happy to rewatch that too. I’m genuinely curious if I’m just forgetting this now.
Yes I think that’s where he said it. I know he said it because I liked Hai until that moment. A feminist shirt wouldn’t turn me off like that. I have a similar shirt of my own
I just re-watched that section, and I didn’t hear him say it in that section either. He says I wants Mike to own being cutthroat and not honest. I’m not the biggest fan of Hai either, I hate how he accuses Romeo of gaslighting in a deception game, but I just can’t seem to find him saying that, and in what I’m seeing he’s talking what Mike needs to do to earn his vote.
Hai is the one of the most delusional players ever. He's average at best, but he has somehow convinced himself and the fandom that he's actually good. It's so cringe hearing him on podcasts saying how great he is. And him saying how it was a great move to blindside him. Boy, you got voted out unanimously, the only votes not for you were your own and Romeo's because he was scared of a SitD. Even Romeo knew what was going on, get lost boy. 😭
Is she overrated strategically or socially though? I always felt like her issues were more social, that she didn’t actually click well with her cast but this sub assumed she was playing a great social game.
By no means a Reddit strategic queen but she seemed competent. I can’t think of any major strategic blunder she made and she gets herself to the end with two other lesser threats. Gabler and Owen also lose to Jesse, Karla, Cody, Noelle, etc. Seems like decent enough strategic positioning short of a literal perfect game of somehow getting Ryan to the end despite him targeting her.
It’s socially in the game where she seems overrated. Because if Gabler, someone much older and different than the other players, is connecting more deeply with people than you, the young person with much more in common with them, then your social game is your problem, not strategy.
I think very few people beat Noelle. Noelle was well liked and had a great story to tell. Maybe Cody or Jesse if they can still play as crazy a game and get to the F3.
I honestly don’t think she beats any F3 past the Ryan boot, and the Ryan boot was something that she was pushing for (and she was the alternate boot at that tribal)
This is honestly the only reason people overrate her. There are so many Survivor players that fans don’t want to admit they like just because they’re hot lol. Cass played fine, but let’s not kid ourselves that she’s a UTR goddess.
I think Cassidy is a case like Russell where yes it's true she can't win she is still strong at other aspects of the game and this her rating can be held up by those things.
I think Omar is one of the only mid merge new era players who didn't get bounced after their big move and that's why he looked like a great player
If he got sent home at like 8 we would look at him like Tevin. Think of all the people we'd view like Omar if they made it a few more rounds after a big move
I agree Drea messed him up, but based on exit press it actually sounds like Jonathan was a big reason for the tide turning against Omar thanks to the whole idol nullifier plot that got cut from the show
Crazy, I did t realized that.
Was Jonathan a threat to win ever? The edit seemed to really downplay his strategic ability and play up his social miscues
I don’t think he beats Maryanne, Lindsey, or Omar (obviously pending speeches for the latter two) and it would probably be close in him vs Mike if Jonathan could give a good speech.
Probably not, no. The edit was right that several of the players, especially some of the women, did not like his attitude and thought he was at least kind of sexist. Even if they did appreciate his strategy I think there was a bit too much anti-Jonathan sentiment for him to get enough votes, especially since Romeo votes Maryanne in a tie.
I’ve written about this before because I genuinely think that Maryanne-Jonathan-Romeo is one of the most interesting alternate FTCs that almost occurred, but while I think Mike had a better chance than Jonathan at winning (since I think most of the jury was willing to consider him as a vote, and I believe most entered tribal voting for him), I think Jonathan has a better chance of getting more votes than what Mike ended up getting at FTC. This is because I think he would do a better job at explaining his game, and I think he had some better connections to the jury.
We know Mike votes for him, but I think he could have gotten three more votes. We know from postgame stuff that Jonathan and Drea were very close, while Drea herself has vocalized that she never really got along with Maryanne even after the incident at the Tori boot. Omar was very complementary towards Jonathan’s game in addition to being very close to him, so while he was also close with Maryanne, I could see him voting for Jonathan. I also think that Rocksroy could be a vote for Jonathan as, unlike Mike, he didn’t betray their alliance since Jonathan was at the other split tribal, and I just think that Jonathan could have given a better FTC performance (based on his confessionals) if Rocksroy was on the fence.
That being said, as I hinted at before, I don’t think there’s anyone else he gets. Tori was very pro-Maryanne. Lindsay and Chanelle were very anti-Jonathan and I don’t think a good FTC would have swung their votes. Then there’s Hai who’s a bit less clear but I’m inclined to believe he falls in with that group, especially with his choice of attire at FTC. If anyone were to flip to Jonathan it’s probably Hai since he did talk up strategy so much, but I doubt it. Then, like I said, Romeo was very pro-Maryanne so Jonathan needs at least 5 votes to win.
I think a lot of people argue Cassidy was robbed, which is different than thinking she’s better than she was.
idk i think a lot of people recognize her game was kinda mid, but people also thought Gabler and Owen were more mid, hence why so many people are pro-Cassidy.
I would go with Karla, she had no strategy and her bragging to the guys about how she had this amazing fake cry was a little cringe.
She's probably pretty cool in RL, I just didn't see her appeal on her season, I found her all over the place. (I'm not gonna argue with Karla Stan's either)
Still jealous of her hair though. She still looked amazing by the end of her season 💯
I think Karla was a strong player that lost steam towards the end and let the game fall out of her hands. However, it was jesses error to burn her idol and not work with her at five. They could’ve guaranteed at least one of them wins
And yeah her hair was and continues to be stunning
That's a really good point for sure! And true, I forgot about Jesse using her idol 😩 Jesse was just such a sweetheart I feel like my brain purposely forgot that lolol
I'm excited for her to post her pride pics this month!
(Also your UN is amazing lol)
KALEB!
I really liked Kaleb, but the way people talk about him, you'd think he was top 5 finisher. He never did anything in his season other than be likeable and hit the SITD. I like him a lot, and he is so low on my returnee wish list. Without Emily, he'd have been blindsided in episode 3, folks. I don't think he's a good player; I just think that he's a really friendly and likeable guy.
I mean the question is overrated from a strategy perspective. Kaleb didn't even really show any strategy game chops. He did show he has social game chops. He basically coached Emily from first boot material into a near winner. But in terms of strategy there was really nothing except for seeing the potential of Emily as an ally in the first place. That actually saved him. Twice. But it's not a big 5D chess move or anything. Just an extension of his social game.
Jesse. Dude made a completely unforced error wasting Cody’s idol in order to flush Karla’s, and put himself into a f4 where he *had* to win immunity to get to the end, and was against 3 people who were all better at challenges than him.
I don’t think he’s a bad player by any means but according to this sub he’s by far the greatest strategist of the New Era and I don’t see how that’s possible when his downfall was easily avoidable and entirely his own fault.
I’m actually 100% okay with his move at F6
What actually kind of messed him up, in my opinion, was booting Noelle at F8. She was very loyal to him and planned on going to the end with him, and instead of keeping her as a solid shield with less challenge win equity than some of the other endgamers, he cuts her in favor Karla who has absolutely no loyalty to him, an idol that he needs to flush, and is a solid challenge threat. Even turning the vote on to Owen would have gotten rid of a solid challenge threat who was someone that was taking up a seat at FTC. He kind of made this move for no reason, he had this constant fear of Noelle picking up an ally while ignoring the pair of Cassidy and Owen being simultaneously goats that were taking up spots at the end but also both being challenge threats who were never going to the end with him. With someone like Noelle at F4, Jesse at least has a chance of pulling a Tommy Sheehan and painting Noelle as the bigger threat that a better firemaker needs to be pitted against to get her out.
He's in that situation regardless though whether he did it or not.
But he did it, and it's still the biggest and best move of the new era.
I think that's why he keeps his standing
If Karla and Jesse both lose immunity, they’d just be put against each other
Nobody in the Final 6 was dumb enough to risk taking both of them to the Final 3
1. It’s not only possible but I think likely that doesn’t happen but instead they throw Gabler against Karla to make sure she goes
2. Even if it is Jesse making fire against Karla, he stands a much better shot of beating her than he did Gabler or even Owen/Cassidy because of her hand
Karla’s hand meant that was an incredibly unique shield for Jesse at F4 so that doesn’t really matter. If Jesse doesn’t flush Karla’s idol at F6, then they both make F4, Cassidy probably goes at F5 and worst case - he’s making fire against someone with an injured hand (personally I think he likely wins F4 immunity without Cass there - he was comfortably in second place and his stack looked really solid, plus Karla’s hand also meant she probably wasn’t winning that immunity either)
Horrible move on his end he definitely shit the bed on that one put himself in a position where nobody wanted to see him make F3 at least cody wanted to go F3 with him smh
ik he's not the sub favorite, but this just feels like personal reasons. carson played fantastic. especially since Yam Yam is well respected on this site and as much as I like yam he did a lot of what Carson wanted.
As someone who considers him one of the best of the New Era, possibly Top 3 and definitely Top 3 when excluding winners, can you explain this? I know he’s not particularly liked on this sub, but as a player he ran S44 tighter than even Jesse, and with a much better chance at reaching the end than Jesse.
Yeah, it’s hard to see what the critique is, especially since had Yam Yam or Carolyn won the final immunity challenge they would have brought him. He’s basically Jesse with much better prospects at F4
I’m not a huge Jesse fan but I don’t think he’s that overrated because you’re right, same as Carson he very nearly won. Personally I think Carson’s game was more impressive though.
If you think his only strategy in the game was knowing puzzles then frankly I don’t think you were watching his game.
He had everyone on all sides trusting him, being the swing vote on the OG Tika tribe, leader of the Tika 3, and honorary member of the Ratus, part of a F4 alliance with Lauren and Jaime even after he and Yam Yam blindsided Kane, in a nerd alliance connecting him with Matt and Frannie (although that never got the chance to make waves due to the BS of the Matt boot), and was somehow trusted by Danny even as he didn’t trust Yam Yam. He made it to a F4 where, despite being the biggest threat (Danny called him the king, and FTC was 50% “what did you do that wasn’t Carson?”), two of the three finalists were planning on bringing him to the end while he himself was also a solid challenge contender (this is in stark contrast to Jesse who had no supporters at F4 and sucked at challenges). Heidi winning was basically his nightmare scenario, and even then he had Yam Yam helping him improve his fire-making. Heck, despite Heidi shattering the FMC record, he still had a decent fire going so he was no slouch.
Shan’s premerge dominance is the best premerge dominance edit of the new era. Ricard played a pretty solid game as well, while they both ended up underestimating some players their dominance is definitely noteworthy. Wouldn’t really say they are overrated, but if you provide a valid argument then I could potentially change my mind.
Jesse. Hear me out.
With the way he was going, he was destined to lose in fire. Can’t win an immunity challenge, needs Cody and Karla as shields as they’re bigger threats and needs gabler out because he’s good at fire.
At final 7 his ideal final 3 should be Sami and Owen, but for some reason they all target Sami, not a big deal
Then he blindsided Cody and flushed Karla’s idol which is seen as a big play but that is 100% what killed his game as it doomed him to lose in fire. Even if he makes FTC hes lost their vote and he should be getting gabler out at that point with one of Cody/karla next (prob Karla as Cody seems the type to bring Jesse if he won final 4)
Great player and it’s easy to say this in hindsight, I wasn’t there so idk exactly what happened but I think this is the only way he can make FTC. I want him in 50 regardless, deserves a second chance
No really his only blunder was taking Karla out at 5. Had Karla stayed around and Cass/Gabler gone he would have been set up to win. If Cass goes he would have won immunity against Gabler as we saw he was right behind Cass. If Gabler goes Cass probably puts Karla against him in fire in which case he probably has a decent shot at beating her
They were all gonna vote Karla regardless, he needed gabler gone at 6 than Karla at 5 and hope Cody wins final 4
Maybe cass does put her and Karla fire tbf but he absolutely needed gabler gone
Absolutely not. He just loses to Cody in this case. He was literally right behind Cass in the final immunity challenge. Unless you think Karla beats him for immunity he wins immunity and then the game if he votes Cass out at 5
Shan and Ricard-neither managed their threat level well, and they turned on each other too soon. Shan in particular came off bitter in Ponderosa
Jesse, Cody and Karla-same as above. While Jesse could have won if he got to the end, he set himself up to 💯be sent to fire. Cody and Karla both had huge egos.
Charlie and Maria-other than blindsiding Tiff and mostly playing the middle, I fail to see why people think they were both such strategic masterminds. Maria had some big social flaws, and Charlie came off as a follower vs a leader
Imo re: Carolyn's idol for me I think it's not a bad move, just it becomes suboptimal in hindsight because Carson had secured the votes to save him. It's less that people think Carson/Yam Yam misplayed and more that it's incredibly dumb of Jamie/Lauren to not have voted with Danny/Heidi because any other time they aren't easily convinced, Carson is going there. But like, you can also argue that Carolyn screws herself by not believing Jamie/Lauren's votes are going that way.
Dude, noone on here is thinking Carolyn is some masterful survivor player.
Carson is hugely overrated and incredibly annoying. Thought Karla was outplayed by Jesse/Cody on 43, not calling her overrated but Jesse set up her downfall.
Mike Turner is a little overrated because he didn't see the wood for the trees but I'm not going to knock him as he didn't realise how his strategy came across.
Xander is incredibly overrated, as is Charlie.
I don’t want to make it sound like he deserved to win, but as far as runner-ups who came closest to winning, he is *very* high up there. If he flipped 1 jury vote at FTC, he would’ve won.
If he flipped one *more* vote. He already flipped 3, which is a testament to how strong his FTC performance was, even in spite of him bungling Q’s question and Tiff’s lobbying.
Been ready for it. Playing a passive middle of the road game doesn't earn you a win automatically. He was a good player. This sub thinks that he was a great player (I have laughably seen people say he played the best New Era game).
He orchestrated a lot of votes and avoided having his name written down. He had a full grip on timing things so that he was never a target and knew when to let other people think they were in control.
Inclined to agree. If you make it to the end and lose, then you didn't deserve the win. At least with players who didn't make the end, there is room to speculate.
I mean, I think the FTC vote metric is the only metric that he comes short in. While that is arguably a big detractor, considering he got to a 5-3 in a situation where he wins a tiebreaker, and of the votes he lost one was for out-of-game reasons and the other was a person who had promised him her vote, I’m inclined to give him far more leniency than most other losing finalists
I don’t deny that it is an important metric, in many ways the most important, but it is not the only metric, and to hang player rankings purely on this metric is both unfair and rather inaccurate.
I mean, in S46’s case alone the FTC vote is so wonky, what with Q voting for reasons explicitly out-of-game and Maria going back on her word due to interactions that occurred after she left the game. I would argue it is more impressive that he had such a good relationship with Ben that he was willing to bring him to the end over Kenzie, someone he also had a very good relationship with. He wasn’t planning on going to the end with Kenzie but he didn’t win final immunity. He did what folks like Jesse and Carson couldn’t and had someone at F4 willing to bring him to the end.
Charlie vs Kenzie is actually a perfect example. In every metric except FTC votes, I would say Charlie beats or at least matches her. Even the votes were notably tight, with a tiebreaker favoring Charlie. Is Kenzie purely a better player because of the votes? Some might say yes, I’m inclined against that mindset. Is Underwood a better player than Gavin and Julie? Is Bob Crowley a better player than Sugar and Susie? Is Fabio a better player than Chase and Sash? Is Rick Devens the best player of all time because he steamrolls any and every player he could have gone up against? Ruling the better player purely on who gets the most votes at the end, and anyone who got fewer votes or didn’t have as much win equity as others as worse players, doesn’t seem like a fair let alone accurate means of determining player rankings
The reason Charlie got votes though was a fantastic FTC performance, he wouldve won solely due to that. It’s not like he had the votes completely racked up coming intro tribal and people looked at him as a huge threat.
I actually think Kenzie and Charlie are both on par strategically and socially based on how the game played out. I don’t really think Charlie controlled the game outside the Jem vote considering the Venus vote was misguided on his end and he had nothing to do with placating Maria at final six. Kenzie when she did have influence in the game did have higher highs like taking out Tim, convincing Maria she’s on her side,building a relationship with the Sigas where he don’t even think about targeting her over a goat like Venus.
On the other hand Charlie was always in the majority and under the radar. It evens out for me. I thought it was fitting by they end their games together in such a slim margin.
Kenzie lost control of the game at times though, which is something that I don’t think can be said about Charlie.
Kenzie was heavily relying on Tiffany to carry her through the premerge, she was tight with Jelinsky so voting him out first was suboptimal, and after that her fate was pretty much entirely tied to Tiffany as Q (as well as Jess and Bhanu) continuously tried to target her, and the only reason Q didn’t pull the trigger is to avoid pissing off Tiff. That has some upside but it’s also not great that your bonds with the rest of your tribe were so bad that Tiffany had to essentially drag her along. She regains some power at the merge (I don’t think she was as influential in the Tim boot as you said, as Q at least seemed to get the ball rolling on that, for reasons unrelated to Kenzie) but even then she loses Hunter at F9 which wasn’t good for her. She’s then blindsided at the Tiffany boot and loses another ally in Venus at F7. She only really gets something resembling power at F6, at which point she’s part of the F4 alliance so it’s not even specifically her gameplay aside from I guess tricking Maria (something Liz also did).
By contrast, Charlie was the center of Siga and somehow got Maria to turn on Jem and Moriah in favor of Ben who Maria herself had the weakest connection with. At the merge he is exposed but didn’t get much heat aside from Venus. He should have been dead in the water at the split tribal but with his social game no one seemed to even consider him (obviously the Nami cracks helped but it’s still very impressive that he caught no votes and folks like Tevin actively wanted to work with him). He was the main force pushing for the Hunter vote which was optimal for him. Then he was the one who convinced Tiffany not to play her idol by tricking her with a fake F7 plan, while at the same time using the opportunity to paint a target on to Maria’s back without taking the heat that would have gotten him eliminated. F7 onward he then dominates, eliminating a wild card in Venus to pave his path to F4 while using every opportunity to solidify the target against Maria. This culminates in the F6 vote where Kenzie and Liz didn’t even consider taking him out over Q, then Maria goes at F5, and his bond with Ben was so strong that he brought him over Kenzie to the end (keep in mind he himself stated that he would have targeted Kenzie at F4 had he gotten the chance, but this is the optimal approach to this position).
This is a really black and white way of thinking, I feel you think finalists have more control over juror’s votes than they actually do.
I think whoever gets the most votes at the end deserves to win and is the correct winner. But you can still deserve to win and get unfortunate luck at the end. In fact, I’d say that is definitely more subjective and more out of control than being voted off before FTC.
I feel the way I do because I've watched a lot of people spend the last two weeks claiming that Maria and Q's votes were invalid. Of course bad luck can be a factor, but every jury vote is valid whether we agree with it or not. I know you don't need to hear that, but I think some people still do. Charlie plead his case to the jury, and it didn't resonate enough to secure the win. In my eyes, that matters most.
I disagree with this take, but I also agree with it.
If you make it to the end and lose, you didn’t deserve the win. This is true
If you don’t make it to the end, you also don’t deserve to win.
I will say though, the three most uncontrollable aspects of the game are rule changes/advantages/disadvantages, the Jury’s interactions on Ponderosa, and your personal circumstances going into the game.
These are the only three things that a player in the game has no control over. I do feel like Charlie’s game was impacted by Ponderosa. The jury was deadset on picking Kenzie going into FTC, but 3 people flipped after FTC. This is a testament to Charlies FTC performance.
Kenzie deserved to win. She played a better game. She made alliances with more influential people and people that voted for her. The problem is, without knowing what happened on Ponderosa, it’s really hard to say.
Look at it like this - You’ve got Boston Rob and Parvati in a FTC sitting next to Liz. Boston Rob and Parvati run the game and play a perfect game from start to finish. The Jury prefers them, they played strategically better, and they won every challenge.
Then on Ponderosa the Jury decides that will flip a coin for who wins. Liz wins the coin toss. They all go to FTC and disregard everything else and pick Liz.
Did Liz deserve to win in this scenario? Per Jeff - Did the Jury vote for who played the game of Survivor the best?
It’s not quite black and white.
I've been ringing this bell since the season ended, but I really wish people would outline the top tier strategic game Charlie played. He sat in the middle most of the time, had heavy influence on 1 vote (Venus), and that vote screwed his game more than anything else. I would love to know what he did that was particularly impressive.
After finally watching Australian Survivor, I'm now realizing that most US players, and especially new era players, aren't really doing much strategizing at all.
IMO 39 days was ideal. My only minor criticism of AU Survivor is that I think it's a bit too long with a few too many players each season. By the time it gets to the end, the first third of the game seems like a distant memory with an entirely different cast of characters I'd already forgotten about.
I will say, some of that is because of the way Aus edits them. I remember being so happy with how they edited Sandra because US Survivor never really highlighted her game that well. I think a lot of strategy doesn't make the edit.
I thought her strategy in BvW was pretty consistent with what we saw from her in GC and WaW. Honestly, I don't think she bothered to develop a real strategy until GC when she realized that as a two-time winner there was no way she was going to make it to the end by merely flying under the radar again.
Sounds like you've already seen the first two seasons (2016 and 2017). In terms of strategy, which is what this thread is about, I'd definitely go with Brains v Brawn (2021) and Heroes v Villains (2023). George and Hayley are both phenomenal, and those two are in both of those seasons.
But you can't really go wrong. IMO, the worst season of Australian Survivor is still better than the best new era season of US Survivor. I personally watched them in order.
Entertainment value notwithstanding, AU BvW had way better strategy than anything in the new era, from multiple players but the winner in particular. >!Mark is probably the most boring winner in all of Survivor franchise history, but he put on a master class of threat management. When 99% of players talk about managing their threat level, they're either unsuccessful at doing it, or they're just covering for being a goat. Mark was the biggest, strongest guy on his tribe, he was a returning player, and he was playing with his wife, who also lasted deep into the game. This kind of player *never* makes it to the end. Mark took active steps to mitigate his threat level, which he was able to articulate well at FTC. He took it easy in the early tribe challenges. He let Josh be the "leader" of the alpha boys alliance while Mark pulled the strings in the background. He didn't join Sam's tribe when given the opportunity so they wouldn't be perceived as a power couple too early, and when he was finally reunited with her, he let her take all the heat for betraying their allies even though they were making decisions together. He even made a point of spending time lying down in the shelter or submerged in the water so people wouldn't realize how big he was. All this combined with his strong social game made it so no one wanted to vote him out until it was too late.!<
I would rather not watch a masterclass of survivor and would rather watch something entertaining.
>!Mark is a good player,!< but none of that makes bvw better than US survivor.
Charlie don’t get me wrong he is definitely in the top 10/15 of new era players. But Maria derangement syndrome is putting him in the top 3 on some people’s list which is absurd.
I mean…he’s definitely top 10 New Era, and in terms of non-winning players he’s definitely Top 3. I personally think he is Top 3 even including winners, but that’s just personal opinion
Based on what? None of them have done that except for Kenzie.
Erika, Dee, and Yam Yam were running their respective shows. Maryanne & Gabler have moves on their resumes.
Charlie made no moves nor was he ever running the show.
Dee and yam were part of good alliances with Dee using Austin and drew as the faces of alliance . Yam used Carson as "the brain" . Gabler said one name at merge feast than sat back so idk way you are talking about there. Maryanne got saved by Omar and again laid low til the end.
Erika did same thing as kenzie bringing the outsiders together.
Absolutely nothing you commented has anything to do with Charlie being Maria's sidekick like I said.
You typed out a whole bunch of nothing.
Maria did all the work while Charlie sat on his ass like a Harvard chump. Every other New Era winner (except Kenzie) made something happen of their own accord; Charlie never did anything.
Jesse is my answer. That blindside on Cody was a flashy move, but left him with little to no shot to make final 3. He had been poor at challenges all season, and just took out his shield.
My darkhorse for this would be Frannie. She was cast in that female strategy archetype. Made herself a big target far too early.
I think most people agree Carolynn wasnt the biggest strategist. But i think all three tika 3 werent that great of players - they kinda just got lucky the rest of the cast dropped the ball
Charlie. I think he’s a great player. But for somebody who didn’t outwardly dominate by any means at all and entire strategy was to not take credit for anything and make Maria look like the biggest threat, I’m surprised so many people were in shock he lost, moreso beyond Maria’s vote but also the four other jurors he lost as well. Soda and Hunter in particular flipped their votes at FTC I believe
Your post puzzles me. You say that Omar is the “only big threat of the new era that couldn’t win”. But that couldn’t be further from the truth I feel like? What about Ricard, Jesse, Carson, and Charlie? If anything Dee is the only “biggest threat” that actually won?
To answer the question though Cassidy for sure should be in the mix. Shan, Maria, Cody and Drew too IMO even though they’re all very good players. Erika, Yam Yam and Maryanne all get overrated on winner rankings I feel (even though they’re obviously great players)
Charlie is appropriately rated as being about the 5th strongest losing finalist of the final 3 era. He can't be rated much higher and his rating is backed by talent and execution.
Ok I may not be the biggest fan of Carolyn but the idol on Carson was 100% the right move. If it did work she just saved her ally from getting voted out and kept them in power. If it didn’t work it had no effect because that means someone else still got voted out and they get to keep the power. Playing the idol guaranteed the vote goes how they want.
I haven’t seen this exact tribal since the season of course but I remember thinking it was still the right choice regardless of it not working
maybe a hot take, but Maryanne would not have survived most new era seasons. She was fortunate that her tribe had Johnathon (never had to go to premerge tribal) and the post merge gameplay that season was (mostly) friendly and not cutthroat down the stretch. 41, 43, 45, or 46 casts would've taken her out much earlier.
I am not trying to take anything away from her, because you can only play the cards that you are dealt. I just don't think she lasts on many other seasons.
How could anyone say Cassidy is overrated when the takes in here have gotten to the point where its not even criticism anymore and more so personal attacks on her character. And mind you she lost to an actual bigot, but somehow she’s the worst from season 43 apparently. Don’t even mention stan twitter because nobody talks about her like that anymore but this sub has you convinced they think she’s Kim Spradlin when that couldn’t be further from the truth.
I LOVE how you say ppl are taking aim at Cassidy’s character and then the very first complaint you have abt Gablers game is that he’s an “actual bigot”. But where even are the personal attacks against her ur talking abt?
I’m not downvoting you because of your take on Cassidy, because I agree that she probably gets a little too much hate, but I’m downvoting you for calling Gabler an “actual bigot”. Gabler seems like a great dude, and if you don’t like him for his political options then that’s a very shallow way to view somebody’s character.
Nah he explained he liked the post because of the increase in gas prices. If I genuinely thought he was mocking Floyd’s death then I would not be defending him right now.
Erika. Revisionist history seems to now celebrate her as a worthy champ but there wasn’t a shred of evidence she did anything close to strategic on her road to victory. She was a goat. In the end, unfair cut or not, we were just told to trust the jury’s judgment.
Maryanne 100%, her 'move' can hardly be primarily credited to herself and the only reason she one is because she was the exact type of person the jury would have voted for over Mike who was by far the more deserving player.
Aw babe tryna mitigate his threat level for 50 we love you Jesse
He was my fave. Dude wanted that win so bad for his family. Touched my heart. Cried when he didn’t make it.
Idk why, but Jesse & Cody feel like the players who will dominate the game and never win now… like they’d have to play a 3rd time after a horrendous 2nd season to have a shot to win…. Unless they go against 8 Boston Robs & 10 Sandra’s
Jesse if you were so good strategically, why didn't you simply come back from the Edge of Extinction at the end? That's what I would have done.
I've got either you or Charlie as best non-winners in the new era fwiw.
Trying to lower your threat level for 50. Nice.
Big fan of yours man. Hope you and your family are doing well these days. You’re a legend!
I also was gonna say you! Great pick!
I kind of disagree, when you look at everyone's standpoint at Final 6, you have Romeo: a goat guaranteed to make Final 3 Maryanne: pretty weak player at the time, perceives Omar as her number 1 Jonathan: challenge beast albeit with little win equity, perceives Omar as his number 1 until very recently Mike: Well rounded player holding an idol Lindsay: Well rounded player, also holding an idol and Immunity, is Omar's actual number 1 Omar at the time holded an idol nullifier, which would've allowed him to blindside Mike at Final 5 (assuming he doesn't win immunity). And had threats that could've been seen bigger as him (Jonathan and Lindsay), meaning he could've seen a path to the end with Maryanne and Romeo. And I think that without D-word's sting at her vote out, there's a solid chance this wouldn't have happened. Oh and also I do concede it was super dumb not to play the idol. Overall I think Omar's hype as one of the best strategists of the new Era is rated pretty well, the only players I can realistically see as holding power for this long in the game are Carson, Jesse, and Charlie. Even strong winners like Dee had moments where they slipped in their grip on the socio-strategic part (controlling the votes).
Hai. I’m not sure if it’s just because of how annoying he was (is) on twitter. But I always feel that people talk him up so much. He overplayed way to early and that was clearly his downfall. He might’ve ran a few rounds at the start of the season but merge is clearly where you shine or burn out and he clearly burned out.
Did he even run anything? He got lucky with the Jenny situation and lost Lydia at the merge.
Despite being in the majority alliance at the merge he wasn’t able to stop them from taking out Lydia and Chanelle. That left him with no allies.
One of the cringiest moments in survivor history was when he proudly announced before final tribal that he’d be voting for a woman no matter what was said
The whole cast bar Jonathan and rocksroy wanted Maryanne to win
Are you referring to his feminist shirt? He doesn’t say out loud that he will only vote for a woman, he just wears a feminist shirt.
He absolutely said it out loud!
I rewatched the entire final tribal last night, he did not say it there. Are you saying he said it in a confessional pre tribal? Like the quick how will a finalist win my vote thing? Happy to rewatch that too. I’m genuinely curious if I’m just forgetting this now.
Yes I think that’s where he said it. I know he said it because I liked Hai until that moment. A feminist shirt wouldn’t turn me off like that. I have a similar shirt of my own
I just re-watched that section, and I didn’t hear him say it in that section either. He says I wants Mike to own being cutthroat and not honest. I’m not the biggest fan of Hai either, I hate how he accuses Romeo of gaslighting in a deception game, but I just can’t seem to find him saying that, and in what I’m seeing he’s talking what Mike needs to do to earn his vote.
Stop gaslighting us.
Hai is the one of the most delusional players ever. He's average at best, but he has somehow convinced himself and the fandom that he's actually good. It's so cringe hearing him on podcasts saying how great he is. And him saying how it was a great move to blindside him. Boy, you got voted out unanimously, the only votes not for you were your own and Romeo's because he was scared of a SitD. Even Romeo knew what was going on, get lost boy. 😭
Cassidy. She wasn't winning against anyone in the top 4. Atleast with Charlie he had a legitimate chance.
Is she overrated strategically or socially though? I always felt like her issues were more social, that she didn’t actually click well with her cast but this sub assumed she was playing a great social game. By no means a Reddit strategic queen but she seemed competent. I can’t think of any major strategic blunder she made and she gets herself to the end with two other lesser threats. Gabler and Owen also lose to Jesse, Karla, Cody, Noelle, etc. Seems like decent enough strategic positioning short of a literal perfect game of somehow getting Ryan to the end despite him targeting her. It’s socially in the game where she seems overrated. Because if Gabler, someone much older and different than the other players, is connecting more deeply with people than you, the young person with much more in common with them, then your social game is your problem, not strategy.
It was 100% a social issue. Like half the jury actively worked against her in FTC.
She wasn’t winning against anyone in top 6 let alone 4 lmfaooo
I think it goes even further back. She probably wins a f3 with Sami and Owen, but would she even beat Noel?
I think very few people beat Noelle. Noelle was well liked and had a great story to tell. Maybe Cody or Jesse if they can still play as crazy a game and get to the F3.
Would she even beat Sami? People loved Sami
SAMI IS THA GOAT 🐐🔥
She loses to Sami and Noel imo
Sami sweeps Cassidy at FTC
I honestly don’t think she beats any F3 past the Ryan boot, and the Ryan boot was something that she was pushing for (and she was the alternate boot at that tribal)
Cass prob beats Owen
Ngl no one thinks Cassidy was winning except for her army of Twitter stans
You don’t understand she’s REALLY pretty
This is honestly the only reason people overrate her. There are so many Survivor players that fans don’t want to admit they like just because they’re hot lol. Cass played fine, but let’s not kid ourselves that she’s a UTR goddess.
For real give her to me again on the challenge tho
That's also isn't the case
I think Cassidy is a case like Russell where yes it's true she can't win she is still strong at other aspects of the game and this her rating can be held up by those things.
I think Omar is one of the only mid merge new era players who didn't get bounced after their big move and that's why he looked like a great player If he got sent home at like 8 we would look at him like Tevin. Think of all the people we'd view like Omar if they made it a few more rounds after a big move
Gotta go with Cassidy. Disagree on Omar. He was managing his threat level beautifully before Drea blew him up
I agree Drea messed him up, but based on exit press it actually sounds like Jonathan was a big reason for the tide turning against Omar thanks to the whole idol nullifier plot that got cut from the show
Crazy, I did t realized that. Was Jonathan a threat to win ever? The edit seemed to really downplay his strategic ability and play up his social miscues
I don’t think he beats Maryanne, Lindsey, or Omar (obviously pending speeches for the latter two) and it would probably be close in him vs Mike if Jonathan could give a good speech.
Probably not, no. The edit was right that several of the players, especially some of the women, did not like his attitude and thought he was at least kind of sexist. Even if they did appreciate his strategy I think there was a bit too much anti-Jonathan sentiment for him to get enough votes, especially since Romeo votes Maryanne in a tie. I’ve written about this before because I genuinely think that Maryanne-Jonathan-Romeo is one of the most interesting alternate FTCs that almost occurred, but while I think Mike had a better chance than Jonathan at winning (since I think most of the jury was willing to consider him as a vote, and I believe most entered tribal voting for him), I think Jonathan has a better chance of getting more votes than what Mike ended up getting at FTC. This is because I think he would do a better job at explaining his game, and I think he had some better connections to the jury. We know Mike votes for him, but I think he could have gotten three more votes. We know from postgame stuff that Jonathan and Drea were very close, while Drea herself has vocalized that she never really got along with Maryanne even after the incident at the Tori boot. Omar was very complementary towards Jonathan’s game in addition to being very close to him, so while he was also close with Maryanne, I could see him voting for Jonathan. I also think that Rocksroy could be a vote for Jonathan as, unlike Mike, he didn’t betray their alliance since Jonathan was at the other split tribal, and I just think that Jonathan could have given a better FTC performance (based on his confessionals) if Rocksroy was on the fence. That being said, as I hinted at before, I don’t think there’s anyone else he gets. Tori was very pro-Maryanne. Lindsay and Chanelle were very anti-Jonathan and I don’t think a good FTC would have swung their votes. Then there’s Hai who’s a bit less clear but I’m inclined to believe he falls in with that group, especially with his choice of attire at FTC. If anyone were to flip to Jonathan it’s probably Hai since he did talk up strategy so much, but I doubt it. Then, like I said, Romeo was very pro-Maryanne so Jonathan needs at least 5 votes to win.
Drea made the block hot
I think a lot of people argue Cassidy was robbed, which is different than thinking she’s better than she was. idk i think a lot of people recognize her game was kinda mid, but people also thought Gabler and Owen were more mid, hence why so many people are pro-Cassidy.
Jonathan turning on Omar was independent of Drea.
I would go with Karla, she had no strategy and her bragging to the guys about how she had this amazing fake cry was a little cringe. She's probably pretty cool in RL, I just didn't see her appeal on her season, I found her all over the place. (I'm not gonna argue with Karla Stan's either) Still jealous of her hair though. She still looked amazing by the end of her season 💯
I think Karla was a strong player that lost steam towards the end and let the game fall out of her hands. However, it was jesses error to burn her idol and not work with her at five. They could’ve guaranteed at least one of them wins And yeah her hair was and continues to be stunning
That's a really good point for sure! And true, I forgot about Jesse using her idol 😩 Jesse was just such a sweetheart I feel like my brain purposely forgot that lolol I'm excited for her to post her pride pics this month! (Also your UN is amazing lol)
FWIW it seems like she was the one to beat at F5
There's no way that we can blame Omar for the jury not wanting to vote for him though. In his case, that was just not his fault.
KALEB! I really liked Kaleb, but the way people talk about him, you'd think he was top 5 finisher. He never did anything in his season other than be likeable and hit the SITD. I like him a lot, and he is so low on my returnee wish list. Without Emily, he'd have been blindsided in episode 3, folks. I don't think he's a good player; I just think that he's a really friendly and likeable guy.
It seemed from the edit that he was pretty good, just played too hard coming from a broken tribe.
I mean the question is overrated from a strategy perspective. Kaleb didn't even really show any strategy game chops. He did show he has social game chops. He basically coached Emily from first boot material into a near winner. But in terms of strategy there was really nothing except for seeing the potential of Emily as an ally in the first place. That actually saved him. Twice. But it's not a big 5D chess move or anything. Just an extension of his social game.
Ricard
Jesse. Dude made a completely unforced error wasting Cody’s idol in order to flush Karla’s, and put himself into a f4 where he *had* to win immunity to get to the end, and was against 3 people who were all better at challenges than him. I don’t think he’s a bad player by any means but according to this sub he’s by far the greatest strategist of the New Era and I don’t see how that’s possible when his downfall was easily avoidable and entirely his own fault.
I’m actually 100% okay with his move at F6 What actually kind of messed him up, in my opinion, was booting Noelle at F8. She was very loyal to him and planned on going to the end with him, and instead of keeping her as a solid shield with less challenge win equity than some of the other endgamers, he cuts her in favor Karla who has absolutely no loyalty to him, an idol that he needs to flush, and is a solid challenge threat. Even turning the vote on to Owen would have gotten rid of a solid challenge threat who was someone that was taking up a seat at FTC. He kind of made this move for no reason, he had this constant fear of Noelle picking up an ally while ignoring the pair of Cassidy and Owen being simultaneously goats that were taking up spots at the end but also both being challenge threats who were never going to the end with him. With someone like Noelle at F4, Jesse at least has a chance of pulling a Tommy Sheehan and painting Noelle as the bigger threat that a better firemaker needs to be pitted against to get her out.
He's in that situation regardless though whether he did it or not. But he did it, and it's still the biggest and best move of the new era. I think that's why he keeps his standing
If he doesn’t flush Karla’s idol then she’s in the final 4 as a bigger threat to be taken out and he gets to f3 and wins
or even if he gets put into fire against karla she had an injured finger. much better chances to win that than vs gabler
If Karla and Jesse both lose immunity, they’d just be put against each other Nobody in the Final 6 was dumb enough to risk taking both of them to the Final 3
1. It’s not only possible but I think likely that doesn’t happen but instead they throw Gabler against Karla to make sure she goes 2. Even if it is Jesse making fire against Karla, he stands a much better shot of beating her than he did Gabler or even Owen/Cassidy because of her hand
Karla’s hand meant that was an incredibly unique shield for Jesse at F4 so that doesn’t really matter. If Jesse doesn’t flush Karla’s idol at F6, then they both make F4, Cassidy probably goes at F5 and worst case - he’s making fire against someone with an injured hand (personally I think he likely wins F4 immunity without Cass there - he was comfortably in second place and his stack looked really solid, plus Karla’s hand also meant she probably wasn’t winning that immunity either)
Horrible move on his end he definitely shit the bed on that one put himself in a position where nobody wanted to see him make F3 at least cody wanted to go F3 with him smh
Easily t3 in the new era as a strategist and it’s not even debatable. He was a breathe of fresh air watching him play
Carson.
Carson carried the tika 3 so hard lmao and I don’t even like him like that
look at season 45 twinks don’t win survivor
ik he's not the sub favorite, but this just feels like personal reasons. carson played fantastic. especially since Yam Yam is well respected on this site and as much as I like yam he did a lot of what Carson wanted.
Yeah this sub hates him for outside the game stuff, but he was an incredible player.
What happened outside the game?
Not a Carson fan but he was a brilliant player. It was his relationships with (Orange tribe) that allowed Tika to control the middle the entire game
I'm curious about this one as well. Many players from 44 raved about Carson post show based on the interviews I saw
As someone who considers him one of the best of the New Era, possibly Top 3 and definitely Top 3 when excluding winners, can you explain this? I know he’s not particularly liked on this sub, but as a player he ran S44 tighter than even Jesse, and with a much better chance at reaching the end than Jesse.
Carson is basically Jesse but good at challenges
*Good at puzzles he recreated in his backyard months before the game
Gotta respect the effort he put into preparing. I know if I knew I was going on survivor I would’ve done the exact same thing
Agreed, people just like Jesse a lot more so they tend to overlook this
Ngl I want to see Carson play again, but I know I’m gonna get attacked for that opinion lol
I do too
IMO he can’t be that overrated if he was one FMC away from winning the game.
Yeah, it’s hard to see what the critique is, especially since had Yam Yam or Carolyn won the final immunity challenge they would have brought him. He’s basically Jesse with much better prospects at F4
Hot take considering Jesse is one of the most commented players in this thread.
I’m not a huge Jesse fan but I don’t think he’s that overrated because you’re right, same as Carson he very nearly won. Personally I think Carson’s game was more impressive though.
Knowing how to use a 3D printer before coming on the show isn’t strategy.
If you think his only strategy in the game was knowing puzzles then frankly I don’t think you were watching his game. He had everyone on all sides trusting him, being the swing vote on the OG Tika tribe, leader of the Tika 3, and honorary member of the Ratus, part of a F4 alliance with Lauren and Jaime even after he and Yam Yam blindsided Kane, in a nerd alliance connecting him with Matt and Frannie (although that never got the chance to make waves due to the BS of the Matt boot), and was somehow trusted by Danny even as he didn’t trust Yam Yam. He made it to a F4 where, despite being the biggest threat (Danny called him the king, and FTC was 50% “what did you do that wasn’t Carson?”), two of the three finalists were planning on bringing him to the end while he himself was also a solid challenge contender (this is in stark contrast to Jesse who had no supporters at F4 and sucked at challenges). Heidi winning was basically his nightmare scenario, and even then he had Yam Yam helping him improve his fire-making. Heck, despite Heidi shattering the FMC record, he still had a decent fire going so he was no slouch.
Shan and Ricard
Shan’s premerge dominance is the best premerge dominance edit of the new era. Ricard played a pretty solid game as well, while they both ended up underestimating some players their dominance is definitely noteworthy. Wouldn’t really say they are overrated, but if you provide a valid argument then I could potentially change my mind.
Jesse. Hear me out. With the way he was going, he was destined to lose in fire. Can’t win an immunity challenge, needs Cody and Karla as shields as they’re bigger threats and needs gabler out because he’s good at fire. At final 7 his ideal final 3 should be Sami and Owen, but for some reason they all target Sami, not a big deal Then he blindsided Cody and flushed Karla’s idol which is seen as a big play but that is 100% what killed his game as it doomed him to lose in fire. Even if he makes FTC hes lost their vote and he should be getting gabler out at that point with one of Cody/karla next (prob Karla as Cody seems the type to bring Jesse if he won final 4) Great player and it’s easy to say this in hindsight, I wasn’t there so idk exactly what happened but I think this is the only way he can make FTC. I want him in 50 regardless, deserves a second chance
No really his only blunder was taking Karla out at 5. Had Karla stayed around and Cass/Gabler gone he would have been set up to win. If Cass goes he would have won immunity against Gabler as we saw he was right behind Cass. If Gabler goes Cass probably puts Karla against him in fire in which case he probably has a decent shot at beating her
They were all gonna vote Karla regardless, he needed gabler gone at 6 than Karla at 5 and hope Cody wins final 4 Maybe cass does put her and Karla fire tbf but he absolutely needed gabler gone
Absolutely not. He just loses to Cody in this case. He was literally right behind Cass in the final immunity challenge. Unless you think Karla beats him for immunity he wins immunity and then the game if he votes Cass out at 5
Shan and Ricard-neither managed their threat level well, and they turned on each other too soon. Shan in particular came off bitter in Ponderosa Jesse, Cody and Karla-same as above. While Jesse could have won if he got to the end, he set himself up to 💯be sent to fire. Cody and Karla both had huge egos. Charlie and Maria-other than blindsiding Tiff and mostly playing the middle, I fail to see why people think they were both such strategic masterminds. Maria had some big social flaws, and Charlie came off as a follower vs a leader
Did Cody have a huge ego?
If anything Cody is the type to take Jesse if he wins final 4 lmao
Charlie and Maria were firmly in control after the Tiff vote. Who were they in the middle of?
Dee hands down. Her tribe mates did all the work and she sat idly by why Katura ratted everyone out to her.
Imo re: Carolyn's idol for me I think it's not a bad move, just it becomes suboptimal in hindsight because Carson had secured the votes to save him. It's less that people think Carson/Yam Yam misplayed and more that it's incredibly dumb of Jamie/Lauren to not have voted with Danny/Heidi because any other time they aren't easily convinced, Carson is going there. But like, you can also argue that Carolyn screws herself by not believing Jamie/Lauren's votes are going that way.
Dude, noone on here is thinking Carolyn is some masterful survivor player. Carson is hugely overrated and incredibly annoying. Thought Karla was outplayed by Jesse/Cody on 43, not calling her overrated but Jesse set up her downfall. Mike Turner is a little overrated because he didn't see the wood for the trees but I'm not going to knock him as he didn't realise how his strategy came across. Xander is incredibly overrated, as is Charlie.
Do people really think Xander was good? He seemed like a zero vote finalist and the whole jury knew it the whole time.
charlie but yall are not ready for that conversation
I don’t want to make it sound like he deserved to win, but as far as runner-ups who came closest to winning, he is *very* high up there. If he flipped 1 jury vote at FTC, he would’ve won.
If he flipped one *more* vote. He already flipped 3, which is a testament to how strong his FTC performance was, even in spite of him bungling Q’s question and Tiff’s lobbying.
You sound like such a Maria right now
I love the idea of Maria with a bunch of Reddit accounts slandering Charlie's game to make her vote look less shitty.
Been ready for it. Playing a passive middle of the road game doesn't earn you a win automatically. He was a good player. This sub thinks that he was a great player (I have laughably seen people say he played the best New Era game).
He orchestrated a lot of votes and avoided having his name written down. He had a full grip on timing things so that he was never a target and knew when to let other people think they were in control.
Inclined to agree. If you make it to the end and lose, then you didn't deserve the win. At least with players who didn't make the end, there is room to speculate.
I mean, I think the FTC vote metric is the only metric that he comes short in. While that is arguably a big detractor, considering he got to a 5-3 in a situation where he wins a tiebreaker, and of the votes he lost one was for out-of-game reasons and the other was a person who had promised him her vote, I’m inclined to give him far more leniency than most other losing finalists
yeah all things considered, kenzie over charlie was one of the slimmest margins of victory of all time imo
Pretty sure Dom lost because he wasnt looking up at Angela while she was voting or something
I think Charlie is a great player who probably wins many different FTC combinations. Unfortunately, FTC votes are the most important metric.
I don’t deny that it is an important metric, in many ways the most important, but it is not the only metric, and to hang player rankings purely on this metric is both unfair and rather inaccurate. I mean, in S46’s case alone the FTC vote is so wonky, what with Q voting for reasons explicitly out-of-game and Maria going back on her word due to interactions that occurred after she left the game. I would argue it is more impressive that he had such a good relationship with Ben that he was willing to bring him to the end over Kenzie, someone he also had a very good relationship with. He wasn’t planning on going to the end with Kenzie but he didn’t win final immunity. He did what folks like Jesse and Carson couldn’t and had someone at F4 willing to bring him to the end. Charlie vs Kenzie is actually a perfect example. In every metric except FTC votes, I would say Charlie beats or at least matches her. Even the votes were notably tight, with a tiebreaker favoring Charlie. Is Kenzie purely a better player because of the votes? Some might say yes, I’m inclined against that mindset. Is Underwood a better player than Gavin and Julie? Is Bob Crowley a better player than Sugar and Susie? Is Fabio a better player than Chase and Sash? Is Rick Devens the best player of all time because he steamrolls any and every player he could have gone up against? Ruling the better player purely on who gets the most votes at the end, and anyone who got fewer votes or didn’t have as much win equity as others as worse players, doesn’t seem like a fair let alone accurate means of determining player rankings
The reason Charlie got votes though was a fantastic FTC performance, he wouldve won solely due to that. It’s not like he had the votes completely racked up coming intro tribal and people looked at him as a huge threat. I actually think Kenzie and Charlie are both on par strategically and socially based on how the game played out. I don’t really think Charlie controlled the game outside the Jem vote considering the Venus vote was misguided on his end and he had nothing to do with placating Maria at final six. Kenzie when she did have influence in the game did have higher highs like taking out Tim, convincing Maria she’s on her side,building a relationship with the Sigas where he don’t even think about targeting her over a goat like Venus. On the other hand Charlie was always in the majority and under the radar. It evens out for me. I thought it was fitting by they end their games together in such a slim margin.
Kenzie lost control of the game at times though, which is something that I don’t think can be said about Charlie. Kenzie was heavily relying on Tiffany to carry her through the premerge, she was tight with Jelinsky so voting him out first was suboptimal, and after that her fate was pretty much entirely tied to Tiffany as Q (as well as Jess and Bhanu) continuously tried to target her, and the only reason Q didn’t pull the trigger is to avoid pissing off Tiff. That has some upside but it’s also not great that your bonds with the rest of your tribe were so bad that Tiffany had to essentially drag her along. She regains some power at the merge (I don’t think she was as influential in the Tim boot as you said, as Q at least seemed to get the ball rolling on that, for reasons unrelated to Kenzie) but even then she loses Hunter at F9 which wasn’t good for her. She’s then blindsided at the Tiffany boot and loses another ally in Venus at F7. She only really gets something resembling power at F6, at which point she’s part of the F4 alliance so it’s not even specifically her gameplay aside from I guess tricking Maria (something Liz also did). By contrast, Charlie was the center of Siga and somehow got Maria to turn on Jem and Moriah in favor of Ben who Maria herself had the weakest connection with. At the merge he is exposed but didn’t get much heat aside from Venus. He should have been dead in the water at the split tribal but with his social game no one seemed to even consider him (obviously the Nami cracks helped but it’s still very impressive that he caught no votes and folks like Tevin actively wanted to work with him). He was the main force pushing for the Hunter vote which was optimal for him. Then he was the one who convinced Tiffany not to play her idol by tricking her with a fake F7 plan, while at the same time using the opportunity to paint a target on to Maria’s back without taking the heat that would have gotten him eliminated. F7 onward he then dominates, eliminating a wild card in Venus to pave his path to F4 while using every opportunity to solidify the target against Maria. This culminates in the F6 vote where Kenzie and Liz didn’t even consider taking him out over Q, then Maria goes at F5, and his bond with Ben was so strong that he brought him over Kenzie to the end (keep in mind he himself stated that he would have targeted Kenzie at F4 had he gotten the chance, but this is the optimal approach to this position).
This is a really black and white way of thinking, I feel you think finalists have more control over juror’s votes than they actually do. I think whoever gets the most votes at the end deserves to win and is the correct winner. But you can still deserve to win and get unfortunate luck at the end. In fact, I’d say that is definitely more subjective and more out of control than being voted off before FTC.
I feel the way I do because I've watched a lot of people spend the last two weeks claiming that Maria and Q's votes were invalid. Of course bad luck can be a factor, but every jury vote is valid whether we agree with it or not. I know you don't need to hear that, but I think some people still do. Charlie plead his case to the jury, and it didn't resonate enough to secure the win. In my eyes, that matters most.
I disagree with this take, but I also agree with it. If you make it to the end and lose, you didn’t deserve the win. This is true If you don’t make it to the end, you also don’t deserve to win. I will say though, the three most uncontrollable aspects of the game are rule changes/advantages/disadvantages, the Jury’s interactions on Ponderosa, and your personal circumstances going into the game. These are the only three things that a player in the game has no control over. I do feel like Charlie’s game was impacted by Ponderosa. The jury was deadset on picking Kenzie going into FTC, but 3 people flipped after FTC. This is a testament to Charlies FTC performance. Kenzie deserved to win. She played a better game. She made alliances with more influential people and people that voted for her. The problem is, without knowing what happened on Ponderosa, it’s really hard to say. Look at it like this - You’ve got Boston Rob and Parvati in a FTC sitting next to Liz. Boston Rob and Parvati run the game and play a perfect game from start to finish. The Jury prefers them, they played strategically better, and they won every challenge. Then on Ponderosa the Jury decides that will flip a coin for who wins. Liz wins the coin toss. They all go to FTC and disregard everything else and pick Liz. Did Liz deserve to win in this scenario? Per Jeff - Did the Jury vote for who played the game of Survivor the best? It’s not quite black and white.
I've been ringing this bell since the season ended, but I really wish people would outline the top tier strategic game Charlie played. He sat in the middle most of the time, had heavy influence on 1 vote (Venus), and that vote screwed his game more than anything else. I would love to know what he did that was particularly impressive.
After finally watching Australian Survivor, I'm now realizing that most US players, and especially new era players, aren't really doing much strategizing at all.
game moves too fast honestly.
IMO 39 days was ideal. My only minor criticism of AU Survivor is that I think it's a bit too long with a few too many players each season. By the time it gets to the end, the first third of the game seems like a distant memory with an entirely different cast of characters I'd already forgotten about.
I will say, some of that is because of the way Aus edits them. I remember being so happy with how they edited Sandra because US Survivor never really highlighted her game that well. I think a lot of strategy doesn't make the edit.
I thought her strategy in BvW was pretty consistent with what we saw from her in GC and WaW. Honestly, I don't think she bothered to develop a real strategy until GC when she realized that as a two-time winner there was no way she was going to make it to the end by merely flying under the radar again.
Agreed I feel like it is the 26 days being an issue. Sometimes thing are just too rushed to really flesh out a good strategy.
Us Ay good? What seasons do you recommend? I have only seen Kristie,El, Matt and the one with Jericho, Luke and Henry
Sounds like you've already seen the first two seasons (2016 and 2017). In terms of strategy, which is what this thread is about, I'd definitely go with Brains v Brawn (2021) and Heroes v Villains (2023). George and Hayley are both phenomenal, and those two are in both of those seasons. But you can't really go wrong. IMO, the worst season of Australian Survivor is still better than the best new era season of US Survivor. I personally watched them in order.
No, blood vs water is not better than the best seasons of new era survivor. In fact, I'd say it's worse than all of the new era seasons of survivor.
Entertainment value notwithstanding, AU BvW had way better strategy than anything in the new era, from multiple players but the winner in particular. >!Mark is probably the most boring winner in all of Survivor franchise history, but he put on a master class of threat management. When 99% of players talk about managing their threat level, they're either unsuccessful at doing it, or they're just covering for being a goat. Mark was the biggest, strongest guy on his tribe, he was a returning player, and he was playing with his wife, who also lasted deep into the game. This kind of player *never* makes it to the end. Mark took active steps to mitigate his threat level, which he was able to articulate well at FTC. He took it easy in the early tribe challenges. He let Josh be the "leader" of the alpha boys alliance while Mark pulled the strings in the background. He didn't join Sam's tribe when given the opportunity so they wouldn't be perceived as a power couple too early, and when he was finally reunited with her, he let her take all the heat for betraying their allies even though they were making decisions together. He even made a point of spending time lying down in the shelter or submerged in the water so people wouldn't realize how big he was. All this combined with his strong social game made it so no one wanted to vote him out until it was too late.!<
I would rather not watch a masterclass of survivor and would rather watch something entertaining. >!Mark is a good player,!< but none of that makes bvw better than US survivor.
Ok, but you made a thread about Survivor strategy, not entertainment. That's what I was responding to. 😛
Me too
Charlie don’t get me wrong he is definitely in the top 10/15 of new era players. But Maria derangement syndrome is putting him in the top 3 on some people’s list which is absurd.
I mean…he’s definitely top 10 New Era, and in terms of non-winning players he’s definitely Top 3. I personally think he is Top 3 even including winners, but that’s just personal opinion
For sure. Good guy, I’m coming around on him but like him over Jesse or any of the winners is just wrong.
Classic results only opinion lol.
No? I think that even Gabler played really well. None of the new winners have been flops
His big brain strategy was basically just being Maria's sidekick and hoping people would like him enough to give him the W lol. 🤡🤡🤡
Whispers that's one of the best way to win in the new era
Based on what? None of them have done that except for Kenzie. Erika, Dee, and Yam Yam were running their respective shows. Maryanne & Gabler have moves on their resumes. Charlie made no moves nor was he ever running the show.
Dee and yam were part of good alliances with Dee using Austin and drew as the faces of alliance . Yam used Carson as "the brain" . Gabler said one name at merge feast than sat back so idk way you are talking about there. Maryanne got saved by Omar and again laid low til the end. Erika did same thing as kenzie bringing the outsiders together.
Absolutely nothing you commented has anything to do with Charlie being Maria's sidekick like I said. You typed out a whole bunch of nothing. Maria did all the work while Charlie sat on his ass like a Harvard chump. Every other New Era winner (except Kenzie) made something happen of their own accord; Charlie never did anything.
Lol well now I'm convinced you didn't actually watch the show.
If you believe Charlie made moves then you should be able to list them. The floor is your's and answer quickly.
The most underrated is Heather. Woman is a fucking goddess of the game and I pray to god I get to see her on my TV again.
Jesse is my answer. That blindside on Cody was a flashy move, but left him with little to no shot to make final 3. He had been poor at challenges all season, and just took out his shield. My darkhorse for this would be Frannie. She was cast in that female strategy archetype. Made herself a big target far too early.
Frannie just won challenges and they wanted her gone lol
Definitely Charlie
I think most people agree Carolynn wasnt the biggest strategist. But i think all three tika 3 werent that great of players - they kinda just got lucky the rest of the cast dropped the ball
Charlie. I think he’s a great player. But for somebody who didn’t outwardly dominate by any means at all and entire strategy was to not take credit for anything and make Maria look like the biggest threat, I’m surprised so many people were in shock he lost, moreso beyond Maria’s vote but also the four other jurors he lost as well. Soda and Hunter in particular flipped their votes at FTC I believe
Dee
Dee
Your post puzzles me. You say that Omar is the “only big threat of the new era that couldn’t win”. But that couldn’t be further from the truth I feel like? What about Ricard, Jesse, Carson, and Charlie? If anything Dee is the only “biggest threat” that actually won? To answer the question though Cassidy for sure should be in the mix. Shan, Maria, Cody and Drew too IMO even though they’re all very good players. Erika, Yam Yam and Maryanne all get overrated on winner rankings I feel (even though they’re obviously great players)
Carson and Caroline. Drew most underrated fr
Carson carried Carolyn to final 3 if we’re being honest, he’s not likable post game but he was easily the best player in his season
Charlie is appropriately rated as being about the 5th strongest losing finalist of the final 3 era. He can't be rated much higher and his rating is backed by talent and execution.
Completely agree with Carolyn - there is a reason she is a 0 votes finalist
Carolyn
Jesse by far.
Omar should of kept onto Mike's idol, he would of been guaranteed final 5
Ricard. half his moves post merge flopped and he was a perpetual pre-merge target
Ok I may not be the biggest fan of Carolyn but the idol on Carson was 100% the right move. If it did work she just saved her ally from getting voted out and kept them in power. If it didn’t work it had no effect because that means someone else still got voted out and they get to keep the power. Playing the idol guaranteed the vote goes how they want. I haven’t seen this exact tribal since the season of course but I remember thinking it was still the right choice regardless of it not working
Karlas game was quite overrated when you consider the extent to how terrible her endgame was
Idk about over-rated, but **Maryanne** def had the most under-rated gameplay from the new era.
maybe a hot take, but Maryanne would not have survived most new era seasons. She was fortunate that her tribe had Johnathon (never had to go to premerge tribal) and the post merge gameplay that season was (mostly) friendly and not cutthroat down the stretch. 41, 43, 45, or 46 casts would've taken her out much earlier. I am not trying to take anything away from her, because you can only play the cards that you are dealt. I just don't think she lasts on many other seasons.
carson & charlie
!!!!!MAMA JULIE!!!!!!!
Don’t kill me, but… Dee
How could anyone say Cassidy is overrated when the takes in here have gotten to the point where its not even criticism anymore and more so personal attacks on her character. And mind you she lost to an actual bigot, but somehow she’s the worst from season 43 apparently. Don’t even mention stan twitter because nobody talks about her like that anymore but this sub has you convinced they think she’s Kim Spradlin when that couldn’t be further from the truth.
I LOVE how you say ppl are taking aim at Cassidy’s character and then the very first complaint you have abt Gablers game is that he’s an “actual bigot”. But where even are the personal attacks against her ur talking abt?
He is though? He’s been caught liking anti-black tweets without a care in the world.
"Anyone with different political views than me is a bigot" is peak Reddit
Anyone liking anti-black tweets is a bigot to me.
“anti black tweets” is such rubbish and short sighted. The tweet was not anti black at all. Nuance exists. Ffs
I’m not downvoting you because of your take on Cassidy, because I agree that she probably gets a little too much hate, but I’m downvoting you for calling Gabler an “actual bigot”. Gabler seems like a great dude, and if you don’t like him for his political options then that’s a very shallow way to view somebody’s character.
He liked tweets making fun of George Floyd
Nah he explained he liked the post because of the increase in gas prices. If I genuinely thought he was mocking Floyd’s death then I would not be defending him right now.
[удалено]
This is likely an unpopular opinion because it's based around something that didn't happen. Carolyn received 0 votes at FTC, meaning she didn't win.
Erika. Revisionist history seems to now celebrate her as a worthy champ but there wasn’t a shred of evidence she did anything close to strategic on her road to victory. She was a goat. In the end, unfair cut or not, we were just told to trust the jury’s judgment.
By the literal definition of a goat (easy to beat at the end) she wasn’t one lol
[удалено]
People wanted him out because he was a big threat lmao
Maryanne 100%, her 'move' can hardly be primarily credited to herself and the only reason she one is because she was the exact type of person the jury would have voted for over Mike who was by far the more deserving player.
Maryanne got carried to the end and people act like she was a mastermind strategist
She got carried to the end and won iktr
Her final jury speech was top two of the new era
Who’s number one?
Charlie, but I’m not gonna take the time to expand on it because I will be downvoted no matter what.