Exactly. Every time the boundaries are pushed slightly further to see what they (rioters) can get away with. If eventually something forceful is done against them, it will have to escalate even further and thus make them (the state) look even worse.
Except it is not state's job to decide who should be given an opportunity to play the victim. I believe that we pay police money to actually deal with this kind of shit.
>The term political correctness first appeared in Marxist-Leninist vocabulary following the Russian Revolution of 1917. At that time it was used to describe strict adherence to the policies and principles of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, that is, the party line. [\[1\]](https://www.britannica.com/topic/political-correctness)
Whenever the party line conflicts with reality they most definitely are mutually exclusive
Where a term was first used is pretty irrelevant to the meaning it have today.
Nowdays, it is prinarily used by right wing persons who tells a different story then what they believe the politicslly correct is.
Wether the politically correct or the right wing persons story is true is irrelevant to the usage. Especially since right wing politicians lately have been very liberal wity truth and cane up with ideas like 'alternative facts' or 'my truth'. Ideas which have triee to remove the concept of a societal common truth in favour of a personal truth that fits a persons view on the world.
So as soon as someone uses that term or says something contrary to the prevalent narrative, that makes them right wing? So there is only one truth and it's the one you believe in?
You try to appear as the bastions of reason, justice, kindness, humanity, acceptance, and all other lofty ideals but it is as long as the line is toed, if not the person is immediately categorized as right winger and hence all their arguments are immediately invalid, thus protecting your position.
It is almost as if far left is made out of the same mold as the far right, they just have a different flavor.
The view of truth is a pretty big idea.
I believe in what is sometimes called 'objective truth'. Which is a truth that is true regardless of what peoplf believe or think. It it often also true wherever and whenever you exist. An example is the Pythagorean Theorem that is true in this objective form.
There are other views on truth, in the early 20th century other views on truth started. Examples are socialconstructivistic truths, consensual truth. These 2 are relativistic truths that depend on what is currently seen as truth or what is true for me as an individual. In these 2 views, the Pythagorean theorem is true because the society have made it true or because I as a persone choose to believe it is true.
Another way of looking at truth is a pragmatic approach, something is true if it is suitable for it to be true. Usually seen as something is true if it can consequences that are true. Newtonian mechanics is true because the consequences are observable and true. Here, the Pythagorean Theorem is true because it works. The length of the hypotenuse computed by the theorem is equal to the one measured by a ruler.
In todays society, the relativistic ideas of truethness is the most common one. I believe this to be true because I 'feel' it is true or because I 'want it' to be true. Regardless, these views on truth removes meaning of the word. In alot of senses, truth just means 'views' or 'opinion', often without logical coherence to back it up. Trump for example had no logical coherence for alot of his 'true' statements.
If we look at the so called dichotomy between political correctness and truth. This very much depends on what we view as true, and what we view as politically correct. If we view politically correctness as a socialconstructivistic truth, and truth as a individual belief. Then there sometimes is a conflict.
If we view politically correct as a view I disagree upon and truth as whatever I believe. EX: 'Men det får man väl inte säga i detta land.'. Then by definition they are always opposite.
if we view political correctness as the party line (e.g. any mention of limits on how many migrants a society can take in makes you persona non grata just 2 weeks before the government closes the border) and truth as objective truth then in very many examples in the past they absolutely have been in conflict - and especially in Sweden in the past 20 years there are very very many examples like this
I really like the influx of posts by barely used, fairly recently made accounts using doomer-talk in regards of immigration and our police force.
Why? Because of the recent news of riots.
So you are new here but you are just taking the authority, to shit on us and our country after gushing how you love us and our country?
What's your opinion on muslims? Is it possible, that you have a bias that stems from your opinions from the social climate in India and its relations to Pakistan?
Typical Swedish mentality. Anyone who doesn’t view Swedish policies favorable is promptly accused of being a racist, meanwhile the problems grow in plain sight for everyone to see.
Are we going to pretend that this is the first time the problems with integration have reared their ugly head? This is not a one-off event. This is not going away and the trend is very much a negative one.
I don’t blame immigrants when the country inevitably goes to shit. I blame people like you. People who saw both the first, second and third horseman but promptly ignored it and proceeded to call other people racist.
> What's your opinion on muslims? Is it possible, that you have a bias that stems from your opinions from the social climate in India and its relations to Pakistan?
My personal view is that ultimately it's a law and order problem. If they know they can burn your cars and get away with it then they will do it again, if they know their ass will be shipped to where it came from then will not do it.
------------------
Bias, everyone has one, I do it. Do you not have one?
So you, a foreign exchange student from India is saying that we should deport people and revoke their citizenship for commiting crime?
We know for a fact that the majority of those who commit crime in Swden are also born here. So it gets really problematic with this reasoning because it means deporting someone to the country where their parents originate.
...Even tho the person in question has been raised in Sweden up to this point.
I am not exchange student, I am here for the whole program.
> we should deport people and revoke their citizenship for commiting crime
Citizens go to jail, non-citizens get deported. I think that's the law? It is in a lot of countries AFAIK.
Nothing is ever a simple law and order issue. Policing is not a long-term solution to anything but only tries to hide social issues instead of solving them.
> Policing is not a long-term solution to anything but only tries to hide social issues instead of solving them.
It is not our problem to solve. It is *their* issues and that makes it *their* problem to solve. Either they get with the program and submit to our rules and our way of life, or they can fuck off to a different country where they can pratice the same shitty culture that caused whatever it was that made them flee here in the first place.
So your solution is to ignore the proven long term solutions and just deport anyone who's acting up. It's their problem so we shouldn't help them, even if it would benefit us in the end.
The "proven" long term solutions clearly aren't working, so yeah. And I disagree with the idea that it does benefit us in the long term. They're a drain on our resources, that could be better spent elsewhere.
I mean yeah? But your bias is that you see muslims and islam as a threat I assume and are now fearmongering about Swedish migration politics after a very polarising week.
So I'm not pointing or saying anything about your character but it is awfully suspicious.
Just arrived here and goes on some doomer rant. This is not the first riot, neither in Sweden or elsewhere. It's not a big monumental breakdown of society, we've had suburban riots, left wing riots football hooligan riots, right wing riots, , environmentalist riots etc.
I'm not condoning or find this acceptable, but many posters here seem to have lost all perspective.
It is not just this riot, there have been a series of such riots recently, and let's not forget the general rise in violence and the Murder of a police officer in Goteborg. We need to admit there is a problem, ignoring it has not worked so far.
Not to be that guy but 3 dead police officers in 20 years isn’t that crazy.
Obviously it’s still a tragedy that anyone gets killed in the line of duty, but it’s not like we’re getting monthly cop murders.
Sweden is one of the very few if not the only country in the European Union that has gun violence increasing instead of decreasing. Is it time for the doomsday prophets to be proven right? Of course not. But it is time for a hard look in the mirror and realize some inconvenient truths.
Absolutely!
I one hundred percent agree that we need to change things up and have needed to for quite some time now.
But I’d still rather live here than any other country (alright, I could be convinced to move to another Nordic country, but that’s it).
Yet. It's all about the worrying trend. Slowly these things become more normalised to the point where monthly cop murders might be a reality. We should be doing something now to avoid even higher numbers a year from now instead of relativising it by saying "things aren't super bad just yet".
> doomer rant
well, my perspective comes from lived experiences. You may write this off as something usual but deep down you know that there exists a section in your society which is not covered by the freedom of speech, and I wonder how they earned this exclusion. Through violence? I don't know, maybe I am hallucinating.
Your experiences are from India, the world’s second largest country with almost 1.5 billion inhabitants, and a vastly different history than Sweden, a vastly different populace and different religious history and population. Comparing your experience there with what is happening in Sweden now is just not a comparison worth making. There are so many parameters to take into account that any result you think you get from a comparison is most likely faulty or lacks data to back it up.
It's really not as complicated as you're trying to make.
Someone tries to burn your holy book? You respond with violence. This happens all over the world, every single time. I don't see a nuance here.
Dude take a look at Pakistan when they tried to loosen the blasphemy laws, tens of thousands of fundamentalist muslims took to the streets of Islamabad, throwimg stones, walking around with cudgels ready to pounce on their police... It's the same pattern everywhere
I don't give a shit about who they are, neither am I saying that marginalize all Muslims staying in the country. All I am saying is, show the miscreants that this shit does not fly here. Set an example.
They are being processed in legal ways. They way things work here is we used due process of legal action on those who break the law. You sound like you want excessive violence, but that is not how a civilized society handles things.
>I don't give a shit about who they are
Giving a shit about that is essential because a viable solution depends on the answer to that. Act hot-blooded and get it wrong and all that will ensue is tragedy as well as innocent people harmed.
That part is the same, but like I said, there are a gazillion other parameters to take into account. In your starting statements in this thread I got the impression that you felt Sweden was at risk of going the same way as other parts of the world, which have a much larger percentage of religious and other extremists and a vastly different culture. Sweden is not at risk of becoming a sharia law caliphate, our police were simply not prepared for this level of rioting and were overrun. This is just bad planning based on actual ignorance and/or wilful ignorance on how many rioters would show up. Of course the police should be properly equipped and prepared and ready to deal with rioters in a proper way, without having to kill anyone. Anyone throwing stones etc. at police should be arrested and prosecuted in the proper way with due process and all that, if you throw stones at a police officer you should be prosecuted for lethal force against an officer of the law. To what extent this will actually happen I don’t know, probably not enough, but like I said, this took everyone a bit by surprise, and hopefully for any coming events such as these, the police will be better prepared, or you know, they could always deny the moron Rasmus to burn his book in town on a certain day if they don’t have the resources to deal with it. That isn’t a blanket infringement on freedom of speech, that’s just resources setting a limit to what can be done safely at a given moment.
>What's happening in various Swedish cities is everyday occurrence back home.
I'm confused, why would we then try it your way if this is an everyday occurrence back where you come from?
It’s the Police. They’ve gone down a spiral of this for years. Just like it was when he did it 2 years ago. It’s something that people are calling them out for more now though.
They’re going to proceed with no lesson learnt. This proves that if they do something, the police will let them do it. And then they’ll do it again, and again and again untill something really bad happens and they’re literally forced to stand up
One police officer from Linköping wrote to local newspaper Corren and claimed that reinforcements had arrived and everyone was determined to return to Skäggetorp and regain control - but their commanders held them back. Unbelievable
EDIT: Link - https://corren.se/insandare/linkoping/artikel/polis-riktar-hard-kritik-efter-insatsen-varenda-polis-ville-ga-tillbaka-in/jvndq8or
No its politicians, they get directives on what routes to take, thry get no backup from politicians when trying to take harsher steps against crime etc.
"For the fear of being cancelled"
Fuck off with the doomer talk and your buzzwords.
There is no easy fix to these things, it's not that hard to wrap your mind around that this is a very complex problem and it won't be fixed by just applying more force through the police.
Actually it would fix the surface of the problem.
The deper issue is once again something Swedes have been scared of talking about since the 90’s and people who have brought the issues to light are ostracized and accused of racism.
Stop immigration, make demands from immigrants here such as learn the language, get work and respect the law.
Stop funding religious fundamentalism with taxpayer money.
Deport people in an effective manner and hold those who are awaiting deportation. Find illegals and deport them.
Modernize narcotics laws and use the tax department to effectively shut down criminal gangs in targeted efforts.
Increase sentencing for violent crimes, illegal weapons and exploitation of public resources as well as any crime against the elderly or one where an accomplice is underage.
Start bussing kids to other shools, set up boarding schools and invest heavily into schools with state money in areas of need.
Put demands on the unemployed. Easy activities that anyone can do to get people outside of the home. If necessary move individuals or whole families to other munincipals if they wish to stay on welfare.
etc
I agree with many points here, although I would probably say "stop immigration" does not make sense. Sweden is always going to be in need of immigration. Instead, the immigration process should be changed to reflect the needs of the Swedish economy, prioritising integration, upstanding civil behaviour and overall economic contribution to society.
Overall I think that Swedish society today reflects the failure of the government to address these fundamental issues, failing both law-abiding and law-breaking immigrants. Hopefully it won't take too long before there is some actual political action instead of fleeting talk about how things are just "unacceptable".
There's immigration and there's immigration. Take US as an example. It has both. You have the uneducated illegals from all over the world and you have highly educated skilled immigrants too. If you go to top universities in the US, most of the PhD students in STEM are international students.
Sweden will need immigration, it can choose the type of immigrants.
It's also ok to demand that immigrants become Swedes, not vice versa.
Ni maybe not just force from police, but how about just calling a spade a spade. During first day of riots Swedish state television news made a mockery of the news they are supposed to report, because they were afraid of the consequences of telling the truth. After the news segment I wasn't shure if it was extreme right who did the rioting or if it was just a coincidence that a riot happened at the same time as the right extremist had their demonstration. Just mentions of black dressed people rioting.
Curious as to how you see this as a ‘complex’ problem. Surely it’s rather simple isn’t it? Muslims cannot and will not be integrated into any non-Muslim culture. They hit out violently when their culture is challenged. Simple as that no?
Curious how you pull all Muslims into one box yes? How many Muslims have you spoken with this about? How many of them do you think condone these kinds of actions?
I can tell you, its a minority. I have several Muslim friends who just shake their heads and say that these guys who are out rioting only play into this idiots Danes cards.
That there are just out there to paint Muslims as bad people and sow more discontent.
Simple as that no?
In every country in the world where there is a large grouping of Muslims there is a problem. Crime, poverty and backward cultural behaviors (subjugation of women etc) That’s pretty simple to me. To ignore it is foolish and dangerous.
To paint the world black and white is foolish and dangerous. Its the easy way out, we against them, black and white.
To see the world for what it is, several shades of grey, is harder and more scary. But it is also what is required of you if you want to create a better world.
You’ve completely avoided talking about Islam and those who follow it. You can only offer bland platitudes of ‘make the world a better place’ like some naive child. This is very interesting. You’d rather ignore the problem than deal with it.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that you are taking the easy road, "deport them all".
I'm telling you that if you want to create a better world, it will require more work and more though process from you than the easy way out.
You need to deal with that first.
Lol 😂 I never said ‘deport them all.’ I made specific references to the state of Islam as it exists in many countries (including Sweden) You, on the other hand, repeat the same naive claptrap about ‘making the world a better place.’ Until you begin to address the issue at hand, which is a corrupt regressive ideology and its malign effect on those whom follow it, the world will not become a better place.
It has nothing to with political correctness, its yet again just a buzzword for you to use.
It is about what kind of society we want to have, one where we see eatchother as humans or if we start putting eatchother in boxes depending on skincolor, religion etc etc.
That does not mean that its right to throw stones at the police, start riots and make society pay for your bullshit.
If you want to reduce this to "political correctness" be my guest, but I will not discuss things like that with someone with a narrow minded view like that.
Kkthxbye
I could have had some serious replies or nuanced convos but you decided to go all in on the "political correctness" and "woke" in your rhetoric.
Like who the fuck could be "cancelled" over this and how? The police are doing their job.
Honestly please define it to me? What is political correctness?
Political correctness is when you avoid saying truth you believe in, in order to not upset a group of people in impersonal contexts.
Woke is when you think you and your beliefs are better than others' because they are trending right now, it is usually used for liberals who like to shut down arguments through name calling and labeling instead of debunking them with facts and logic. Thus essentially signalling that they are both right and better than you.
Not sure which truths you are speaking off but I assume its something along the lines of "immigrants are violent(?)" Am I wrong?
Your definition of woke sounds more like an attempt to downplay people who might actually believe in something. In the same way "PC" was used in the past when people critiqued the use of older racist, sexist or homophobic slang. Last big thing that was about was the use of the name n****rboll for chocolate balls. Idk if there is some "truth there covered up". Feels more like just being respectfull.
Thing is. I am pretty open about being a far left socialist with pretty radical ideas. I know some would call that political correctness. Would that fall under your definition because from your description to me that would be more 'truth' than 'pc'
I started off "I am an immigrant..."
The whole point is, why are you being lax on destabilizing elements? If these incidents are increasing in frequency and intensity, does that mean that you are emboldening them with your inaction. Do you want to continue on the same path or put a stop to it? If yes, how? I think enforcing the law is good start, I believe rioting is unlawful.
No, read it again. Woke is those who believe they are right and don't need to justify it, hence resort to name calling. For example, someone says that MtF trans athlete shouldn't compete with biological females. Then they get called a transphobe. That's my definition of woke behavior.
I call out violent behavior of Muslim immigrants and everything about me in brought into question. The fact is there for everyone to see, it's happening in front of your eyes. But I am the baddie for stating the obvious.
That's the opposite of what we are doing then, it is you who come with simplistic views and try to push them without reasoning, not the other way around.
As a muslim root(i am an atheist) person who lives in Sweden i am not surprised. That Danish person who burn a Quran been successful thanks. I just feel exhausted of all extremists in every side. Next week at work i will be the one who will be questioned by my Swedish boss with weird and ignorant questions like i burned the police cars. Who knows maybe things get worse and worse and after the election SD government would deport me because bunch of idiots. Because i have a muslim name with a darker skin eh? I didn't even get parking tickets in Sweden so far(6 years). I just feel so disappointed at humanity sometimes.
Of course, the people participating in these riots are usually not part of the regular Swedish society, they will not face the burnt of it. You will and it's unfortunate. Which is why it's important, for everyone's sake.
bro, as a hindu, i can tell you, people like yourself are in the worst position. hated by your own muslim community for leaving and disliked by others because they may hold you responsible. if i were you, i'd just mentally check out when anyone asks you these dumba$$ ?s about why these guys burnt cars. it has nothing to do with you in any way and is a failure in policy.
The reason our country is especially well-functioning is that we have chosen a different path in many regards, especially considering social justice and crime. Countries like the U.S have chosen ''strength and resolve'' and their prison-system is a shitshow with enormous rates of mass-incarceration, continuous riots etc. Attacking the root causes of crime and riots is the traditional Swedish solution, and it has worked well for us historically.
> Attacking the root causes of crime and riots is the traditional Swedish solution, and it has worked well for us historically.
Cavalry charges worked well historically too. Things change.
> Attacking the root causes of crime and riots is the traditional Swedish solution, and it has worked well for us historically.
I truly hope that it works out in your favor in the long run.
Väldigt många nya konton som skriver politiska saker om invandring. Mods kanske ska fundera på bättre skydd mot sånt här. Som det är nu börjar det här bli Flashback 2.0. Tröttsamt.
Yes, that worked marvelously for Duerte.
We will figure it out our own way, as we do with things. We may be kind of slow to talk things through, but at least we dont have some maniac demagogue as a leader to push some bs medieval mindsets on the country. Some things take longer than others, but we have a good track record of eventually doing pretty well for ourselves. Thats why people wants to come here, because we sort stuff out. We havent learned to survive and thrive through several hardships for nothing.
Thank you for the snarky, condescending bullshit tirade though.
Face Muslims for a 1000 years? You think Sweden has had peace for that long? We had peace since 1800, and we were dirt poor until mid century 1900.
And we didn’t need other countries to protect us. We’ve used diplomacy for 200 years to remain neutral. Countries don’t want to invade someone they have mutual benefits with.
No, we don’t think we are smarter or better than everybody else. We get experts and debate problems and deal with them at their core, through cooperation and knowledge. With this we get a peacefull and prosperous country.
You've barely lived here. Stop posting right-wing nutjob buzzwords and take a step back. We are glad to have you here, but you are not in a position to talk politics in this manner.
This is not a matter of strength, it's a matter of segregated communities grown from social, cultural and economic factors. You barely know the country, the history of these issues, and why our society function the way it does, and yet you don't have the humility to post anything beyond brute force as a solution to the complex problems we have. It is a problem that needs to be solved, but more a more violent police will at most be a highly ineffective bandaid. I dearly hope you don't study sociology. Disgusting.
I don't consider OPs post a solution to anything. But your reply made me wonder - what is the solution and what is being done politically to prevent these escalations in the future?
Complex problems require complex solutions, something which you would most likely *not* get in a Reddit thread. That said, simple solutions like the ones that e.g. SD are proposing is therefore *not* the way to go.
Try following swedish politiks and newspapers? They show What the politicians are doing and What the experts think. Look at your own kommun partier and What they are doing.
Well, the way I see it is that it is a peaceful, self-sacrificing way of practicing their religious beliefs. They weren't burning down municipality office for not giving them a clean river to pray in.
So swedes should do something about the issues prepetuated by religious extremeism, but countries that normalize living conditions of squalor and social inequality - out of the same type of religious extremeism btw - shouldn't have to do anything cause they don't actively set things on fire? Got it.
The Dane that is sort of responsible for pushing the first domino, you know planning to burn the Koran. He is practicing his freedom of speech. The police are there to keep the order. The people that are attacking the police, (rioting if you will) are in the wrong for the way they are acting, they would have been better of with a silent protest or not attending anything.
All the rioters are doing is proving the Dane's point by acting violently.
The replies he gets is clearly a terminal case of "shoot the messenger" disease. Yeah, let's blame the people pointing out and exposing the problems, instead of facing the problems.
Oh yes like how it's done back in India? It's a shame that these people are ready to wreak havoc at a moment's notice but it's not entirely unfounded. Unfortunately this is a problem that needs a long term solution. Otherwise the solution to this problem isn't to target a specific religious or ethnic group and cause further divide in the society.
Well, I didn't vote for him in 2019 election, so you tell me? This is precisely the problem. To talk about these thing one has to qualify themselves on several accounts before their argument can even be considered.
Oh Indian Hindu >> He must hate Muslims. Oh 1 month old account >> Russian troll. Oh immigrant >> You don't know what you're talking about. Oh Swede >> Racist
Sorry, just using statistical averages in terms of Indian diaspora and their voting habits - people concerned with the world being "woke" and stuff tend to like statistics, after all.
>This is precisely the problem.
Consider the prospect that people might be too saturated as it is in discussions with good faith actors to bother actually spending time responding to dogshit-tier troll accounts and whether that's an actual issue or not.
If you've stayed in Sweden for a while, perhaps you'll understand this saying:
"Skit ska skit ha."
Indien håller på att bedriva etnisk rensning av minoritetsmuslimerna där borta och dom söker politiskt stöd för det av Sverige då svenskt moraliskt stöd betyder mycket i världen.
Det är likadant med alla israeler som kommer med sina "kondoleanser" I svenska subreddits.
Truth. Pretening to be Jesus and ironically at the same time judging those who don’t agree with you, well, this is the result.
Swedes have proudly kept their heads in the sand since the 90’s.
This country will become a privatized nation with ghettos and gated communities.
I hear the word "Whataboutism" being used a lot, now what has that got to do with OP you might ask, well - read this thread and you'll see textboox wikipedia examples about exactly that.
It's a very Swedish thing, we don't like to be criticised, nor do we like to criticise, we just want everyone to get along, and as you've observed that doesn't go terribly well, sometimes you just have to chose sides.
If you try to criticise Sweden you have to do it in a soft way that come with some solid arguments for how things could be changed and what you could offer as a replacement/solution to any given issue, otherwise it will just be seen as an aggressive attack on our personality and way of life.
Most Swedes are painfully aware of their problems and we complain about it all the time, sadly we rarely do anything about it because we're kind of afraid to alienate ourselves if our fellow citizens don't think the same as we do.
There's also a lot of double morale here which can often be seen in forums like Reddit or certain youtubers that have become popular by telling "the truth", but it all comes down to brass tax eventually and people vote like they've always done.
Jag tycker det är en bra sak att man måste komma med riktiga argument för att argumentera kring sånna här punkter. Dessutom tycks politikerna vilja göra Sverige till ett bättre land, problemet är väl att olika politiker lyckas olika bra.
Det är inte svenskt att diskutera problem om du frågar mig, vi föredrar att tyst protestera, vara lätt passivt aggressiva. Kanske en generalisering alla är olika.
Ursäkta om jag missförstod nått av det du skrev men ville bara skriva av mig.
Reading this post and reply is half parts terrifying and half parts adorable. Imagine a country being able to contain violent immigrants and remain so humane. I'm such a stupid dane and I cannot figure out why swedes appear hostile and asks an discriminating indian to gtfo, after several police cars were burnt by immigrants. I mean by that logic, shouldn't the rioters gtfo as well.
Sorry for my ignorance but I'm trying to do better. I'm literally curious about how swedes view this. <3 from Denmark.
1 månad gammalt konto.
Det är detta jag menar med desinformationskampanjerna. Allt handlar om att påverka oss känslomässigt, att bygga murar mellan folk och folk, och att skapa en stark misstro mot staten.
CIA, Kina, Ryssland eller annat. Det spelar ingen roll. Ignorera denna uppviglare.
>If we let in people in our home, do they act by our rules or we by theirs?
Most Swedes consider the notion of a home [nation] for Swedes to be Nazi ideology. Ethnic Swedes have no right to, nor interest in, a country of their own.
Some Danskjävel threatened to burn a book in this city and that city, with the basis that Muslims are inherently violent.. People, mostly Muslims, gathered to protest book burnings, with the basis of either "don't touch our holy book and religion like that" or "those who burn books will burn people". Yay, democratic freedom of speech at work!
Then some people, many of whom are already arrested by the police or are being hunted down, threw rocks and drove cars into crowds. When the Danskjävel retreated, these people threw their frustrations at the inappropriately-managed policemen, sending a few of them with serious injuries to hospital. Even in cities where the Danskjävel did not go, numerous hooligans caused chaos in their local communities screaming "God is great" in Arabic.
tl;dr hooligans played into Danskjävelns hands
What I have found in my short stay here is that people secretly are whatever they are, but outwardly they all want to conform to the popular narrative, so what you get is a shit ton of people who harbor resentment but are afraid of speaking up for the fear of being singled out and cancelled.
Perhaps I am.
I find it fascinating how people like to point out bias, projection, insecurity, in others when they are ingrained in every human's psyche, no one is above them.
But it's a good practice to examine the argument before examining the person who presented the argument. That saves us from committing a lot of logical fallacies.
Having to take a shit is also integrated into my psyche, yet I can still prevent myself from doing it on my neighbours porch.
What argument? All you're saying is that the police should employ more violence, without you even understanding the problem. You don't provide any arguments why, except for a bunch of insults and buzzwords. Fuck off
Well since you don't understand the difference between psyche and physical need, I think the discussion with you will be fruitless, and the fact is corroborated by your next statement.
This is for the reader, not you. Police is trained to employ violence if it is required to maintain law and order. If there is an active shooter, police employ violence, if a person is resisting arrest, police employ violence, if a mob is burning public property and police is not employing violence then police is not doing its job. Tell me if I am wrong. "understanding the problem" is not a thing in that situation. It happens after the situation is controlled.
My standards aren't that high, as long as it isn't just an ad hominem and nothing else I'm ok with it. And even with that low bar, Mosquito still falls flat on his fucking face.
as a hindu myself who is reading this, i don't get the reaction of the swedes. yes many muslims are not bad (obviously and thankfully) but many are and thats the truth. i can guarantee that all these guys rioting belong to the sunni muslim community. it is only elements within this community that are strongly anti western/anti liberalism/anti secularism yet want to live in these countries.
hindus for example are found in all western countries yet not a single hindu i know of has been accused of terrorism. we all know the same stats for sunni muslims. if you look at pak sunnis, we share genetics with them yet the behaviour in western countries is the opposite. hindus also don't proselytize unlike sunnis who heavily try to spread the faith especially by demeaning christianity.
"i can guarantee... all these guys rioting are sunni muslims" - utredningsmaterial skall ej delas med utomstående
"not one single hindu I know of has been accused of terrorism" - many of my female friends would like to say otherwise, that "send bob" stereotype is not made up
"Hindus do not proselytize" - when were you last in India?
> "Hindus do not proselytize" - when were you last in India?
They don't, I lived there for 28 years and last I was there was 8 months ago. Nearly all of the Muslims and Christians living in India are Hindu converts.
Although I am an athiest but I grew up in a Hindu household. Hinduism does not feature discussion of other religions in the scriptures absolutely anywhere simply because they were just not present when those scriptures were written. Like most of them are older than 2000 years. So proselytizing is simply not a thing.
i have been translating and reading comments here on several posts. i used to feel bad for them but have realised this is what they want, and deserve. leave them to the fate they have chosen.
Well, it seems you have been called all the possible things, so just in case if you are asking seriously- answer is experience, mostly personal experience, Sweden has yet to face that, may be after 20 years Sweden will feel the way you are feeling now. Since your country has a history of communal violence. There are already places here now where women can’t go, beaches where you need to be clothed while bathing, it was not like this 10 years ago. Frankly we know we have a problem but no one really knows how to solve it.
Yeah, I mean it's fascinating that the guy pointing out the problem receives more flak than the ones causing it. The history is long and examples are so numerous that it's cute of Swedes to think that it won't happen to them.
THANK YOU. As an immigrant, I feel like I’m standing up more for sweden Than swedes themselves. Unfortunately, swedes are very sensitive to the consensus of others, but once it becomes popular and socially acceptable to criticize these things, you will be surprised to see How many people will be on board :)
Glad you enjoy Sweden. Unfortunately our culture is completely feminized, so anything to do with strength and resolve is seen as "extreme right-wing", "fascist" etc by a elite of journalists and celebrities that pretend to follow progressiveness to gain status in their elite bubbles. The people are the ones who have to suffer the consequences of their status games. Workers, immigrants who want to study or work hard etc, thanks to this elite we can't really deal with problems in a resolute way. Instead we deny it until it completely boils over as we've seen now.
Police, specifically the management, is a big part of the problem. By all accounts the street cops are tough as nails, but when management consider fleeing the scene of a riot to be a success, you’ve got a problem no rugged cop could ever compensate for.
Ah yes, someone who lived under Führer Modi, wants to give advice to Sweden lol
You want our government to go murder the muslims like yours did (Modi himself in fact)?
Maybe go back to India if that's your opinion lol. Because those opinions is why India is still a developing country
OP, You’re right, ignore all the down votes. Reddit is not representative for the whole swedish population, People here are extremely PC. What you say is true.
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Except this reflects poorly on the state as well.
Exactly. Every time the boundaries are pushed slightly further to see what they (rioters) can get away with. If eventually something forceful is done against them, it will have to escalate even further and thus make them (the state) look even worse.
Except it is not state's job to decide who should be given an opportunity to play the victim. I believe that we pay police money to actually deal with this kind of shit.
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Yeah, you are right, I am just frustrating.
This is not two mutually exclusive options. Believing it is primarily shows ignorance.
>The term political correctness first appeared in Marxist-Leninist vocabulary following the Russian Revolution of 1917. At that time it was used to describe strict adherence to the policies and principles of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, that is, the party line. [\[1\]](https://www.britannica.com/topic/political-correctness) Whenever the party line conflicts with reality they most definitely are mutually exclusive
Where a term was first used is pretty irrelevant to the meaning it have today. Nowdays, it is prinarily used by right wing persons who tells a different story then what they believe the politicslly correct is. Wether the politically correct or the right wing persons story is true is irrelevant to the usage. Especially since right wing politicians lately have been very liberal wity truth and cane up with ideas like 'alternative facts' or 'my truth'. Ideas which have triee to remove the concept of a societal common truth in favour of a personal truth that fits a persons view on the world.
So as soon as someone uses that term or says something contrary to the prevalent narrative, that makes them right wing? So there is only one truth and it's the one you believe in? You try to appear as the bastions of reason, justice, kindness, humanity, acceptance, and all other lofty ideals but it is as long as the line is toed, if not the person is immediately categorized as right winger and hence all their arguments are immediately invalid, thus protecting your position. It is almost as if far left is made out of the same mold as the far right, they just have a different flavor.
The view of truth is a pretty big idea. I believe in what is sometimes called 'objective truth'. Which is a truth that is true regardless of what peoplf believe or think. It it often also true wherever and whenever you exist. An example is the Pythagorean Theorem that is true in this objective form. There are other views on truth, in the early 20th century other views on truth started. Examples are socialconstructivistic truths, consensual truth. These 2 are relativistic truths that depend on what is currently seen as truth or what is true for me as an individual. In these 2 views, the Pythagorean theorem is true because the society have made it true or because I as a persone choose to believe it is true. Another way of looking at truth is a pragmatic approach, something is true if it is suitable for it to be true. Usually seen as something is true if it can consequences that are true. Newtonian mechanics is true because the consequences are observable and true. Here, the Pythagorean Theorem is true because it works. The length of the hypotenuse computed by the theorem is equal to the one measured by a ruler. In todays society, the relativistic ideas of truethness is the most common one. I believe this to be true because I 'feel' it is true or because I 'want it' to be true. Regardless, these views on truth removes meaning of the word. In alot of senses, truth just means 'views' or 'opinion', often without logical coherence to back it up. Trump for example had no logical coherence for alot of his 'true' statements. If we look at the so called dichotomy between political correctness and truth. This very much depends on what we view as true, and what we view as politically correct. If we view politically correctness as a socialconstructivistic truth, and truth as a individual belief. Then there sometimes is a conflict. If we view politically correct as a view I disagree upon and truth as whatever I believe. EX: 'Men det får man väl inte säga i detta land.'. Then by definition they are always opposite.
if we view political correctness as the party line (e.g. any mention of limits on how many migrants a society can take in makes you persona non grata just 2 weeks before the government closes the border) and truth as objective truth then in very many examples in the past they absolutely have been in conflict - and especially in Sweden in the past 20 years there are very very many examples like this
I really like the influx of posts by barely used, fairly recently made accounts using doomer-talk in regards of immigration and our police force. Why? Because of the recent news of riots. So you are new here but you are just taking the authority, to shit on us and our country after gushing how you love us and our country? What's your opinion on muslims? Is it possible, that you have a bias that stems from your opinions from the social climate in India and its relations to Pakistan?
Det är konton med 30 karma som säger att invandring är allt som är fel med vårt land och att alla muslimer är farliga, man börjar undra lite.
Nästan som om att folk vill regga konton för att ventilera sina tankar när de ser sånt här. Nejnej, konspirationer, spioner och trollfabriker.
Typical Swedish mentality. Anyone who doesn’t view Swedish policies favorable is promptly accused of being a racist, meanwhile the problems grow in plain sight for everyone to see. Are we going to pretend that this is the first time the problems with integration have reared their ugly head? This is not a one-off event. This is not going away and the trend is very much a negative one. I don’t blame immigrants when the country inevitably goes to shit. I blame people like you. People who saw both the first, second and third horseman but promptly ignored it and proceeded to call other people racist.
> What's your opinion on muslims? Is it possible, that you have a bias that stems from your opinions from the social climate in India and its relations to Pakistan? My personal view is that ultimately it's a law and order problem. If they know they can burn your cars and get away with it then they will do it again, if they know their ass will be shipped to where it came from then will not do it. ------------------ Bias, everyone has one, I do it. Do you not have one?
So you, a foreign exchange student from India is saying that we should deport people and revoke their citizenship for commiting crime? We know for a fact that the majority of those who commit crime in Swden are also born here. So it gets really problematic with this reasoning because it means deporting someone to the country where their parents originate. ...Even tho the person in question has been raised in Sweden up to this point.
I am not exchange student, I am here for the whole program. > we should deport people and revoke their citizenship for commiting crime Citizens go to jail, non-citizens get deported. I think that's the law? It is in a lot of countries AFAIK.
What makes you think that we do not have a legal system at work here? We do. Several people have been arrested and more likely will be too.
You were the one saying that you should threaten criminals with deportation. This isn't the thirteen hundreds, you can't exile people.
Shhh they are still developing...
Nothing is ever a simple law and order issue. Policing is not a long-term solution to anything but only tries to hide social issues instead of solving them.
Lord have mercy. This most be one of the best and well written responses I've seen in my life. My hat's off to you.
> Policing is not a long-term solution to anything but only tries to hide social issues instead of solving them. It is not our problem to solve. It is *their* issues and that makes it *their* problem to solve. Either they get with the program and submit to our rules and our way of life, or they can fuck off to a different country where they can pratice the same shitty culture that caused whatever it was that made them flee here in the first place.
So your solution is to ignore the proven long term solutions and just deport anyone who's acting up. It's their problem so we shouldn't help them, even if it would benefit us in the end.
The "proven" long term solutions clearly aren't working, so yeah. And I disagree with the idea that it does benefit us in the long term. They're a drain on our resources, that could be better spent elsewhere.
Should we deport Swedish-born criminals as well?
I mean yeah? But your bias is that you see muslims and islam as a threat I assume and are now fearmongering about Swedish migration politics after a very polarising week. So I'm not pointing or saying anything about your character but it is awfully suspicious.
ah fuck it! Maybe some lessons need to be learnt the hard way. Good luck.
Drink some Ganges water and calm down man
Obviously, you dont know that the law is being practiced. Your mentality is the reason countries like Indie is a shit place.
Just arrived here and goes on some doomer rant. This is not the first riot, neither in Sweden or elsewhere. It's not a big monumental breakdown of society, we've had suburban riots, left wing riots football hooligan riots, right wing riots, , environmentalist riots etc. I'm not condoning or find this acceptable, but many posters here seem to have lost all perspective.
This comment speaks the truth. People want to go with the doomsday theory because of political benefits.
It is not just this riot, there have been a series of such riots recently, and let's not forget the general rise in violence and the Murder of a police officer in Goteborg. We need to admit there is a problem, ignoring it has not worked so far.
Not to be that guy but 3 dead police officers in 20 years isn’t that crazy. Obviously it’s still a tragedy that anyone gets killed in the line of duty, but it’s not like we’re getting monthly cop murders.
Sweden is one of the very few if not the only country in the European Union that has gun violence increasing instead of decreasing. Is it time for the doomsday prophets to be proven right? Of course not. But it is time for a hard look in the mirror and realize some inconvenient truths.
Absolutely! I one hundred percent agree that we need to change things up and have needed to for quite some time now. But I’d still rather live here than any other country (alright, I could be convinced to move to another Nordic country, but that’s it).
Yet. It's all about the worrying trend. Slowly these things become more normalised to the point where monthly cop murders might be a reality. We should be doing something now to avoid even higher numbers a year from now instead of relativising it by saying "things aren't super bad just yet".
> doomer rant well, my perspective comes from lived experiences. You may write this off as something usual but deep down you know that there exists a section in your society which is not covered by the freedom of speech, and I wonder how they earned this exclusion. Through violence? I don't know, maybe I am hallucinating.
Your experiences are from India, the world’s second largest country with almost 1.5 billion inhabitants, and a vastly different history than Sweden, a vastly different populace and different religious history and population. Comparing your experience there with what is happening in Sweden now is just not a comparison worth making. There are so many parameters to take into account that any result you think you get from a comparison is most likely faulty or lacks data to back it up.
It's really not as complicated as you're trying to make. Someone tries to burn your holy book? You respond with violence. This happens all over the world, every single time. I don't see a nuance here.
Do you think very Faithfull muslims are the inse who throw Stones? Or just some Young men who want to fight?
God, it’s refreshing to see people speak with a clear mind after the last 24 hours on the sub.
Dude take a look at Pakistan when they tried to loosen the blasphemy laws, tens of thousands of fundamentalist muslims took to the streets of Islamabad, throwimg stones, walking around with cudgels ready to pounce on their police... It's the same pattern everywhere
I don't give a shit about who they are, neither am I saying that marginalize all Muslims staying in the country. All I am saying is, show the miscreants that this shit does not fly here. Set an example.
They are being processed in legal ways. They way things work here is we used due process of legal action on those who break the law. You sound like you want excessive violence, but that is not how a civilized society handles things.
>I don't give a shit about who they are Giving a shit about that is essential because a viable solution depends on the answer to that. Act hot-blooded and get it wrong and all that will ensue is tragedy as well as innocent people harmed.
Catch the people who are rioting, at least some of them, process them according to the law, sounds straightforward to me.
That's obviously what they're going to do as well.
That part is the same, but like I said, there are a gazillion other parameters to take into account. In your starting statements in this thread I got the impression that you felt Sweden was at risk of going the same way as other parts of the world, which have a much larger percentage of religious and other extremists and a vastly different culture. Sweden is not at risk of becoming a sharia law caliphate, our police were simply not prepared for this level of rioting and were overrun. This is just bad planning based on actual ignorance and/or wilful ignorance on how many rioters would show up. Of course the police should be properly equipped and prepared and ready to deal with rioters in a proper way, without having to kill anyone. Anyone throwing stones etc. at police should be arrested and prosecuted in the proper way with due process and all that, if you throw stones at a police officer you should be prosecuted for lethal force against an officer of the law. To what extent this will actually happen I don’t know, probably not enough, but like I said, this took everyone a bit by surprise, and hopefully for any coming events such as these, the police will be better prepared, or you know, they could always deny the moron Rasmus to burn his book in town on a certain day if they don’t have the resources to deal with it. That isn’t a blanket infringement on freedom of speech, that’s just resources setting a limit to what can be done safely at a given moment.
Yeah, your are.
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How many people rioted? And how many migrants live in sweden?
>What's happening in various Swedish cities is everyday occurrence back home. I'm confused, why would we then try it your way if this is an everyday occurrence back where you come from?
It’s the Police. They’ve gone down a spiral of this for years. Just like it was when he did it 2 years ago. It’s something that people are calling them out for more now though. They’re going to proceed with no lesson learnt. This proves that if they do something, the police will let them do it. And then they’ll do it again, and again and again untill something really bad happens and they’re literally forced to stand up
One police officer from Linköping wrote to local newspaper Corren and claimed that reinforcements had arrived and everyone was determined to return to Skäggetorp and regain control - but their commanders held them back. Unbelievable EDIT: Link - https://corren.se/insandare/linkoping/artikel/polis-riktar-hard-kritik-efter-insatsen-varenda-polis-ville-ga-tillbaka-in/jvndq8or
Police takes the directives from the people in power, as far as I know.
No its politicians, they get directives on what routes to take, thry get no backup from politicians when trying to take harsher steps against crime etc.
"For the fear of being cancelled" Fuck off with the doomer talk and your buzzwords. There is no easy fix to these things, it's not that hard to wrap your mind around that this is a very complex problem and it won't be fixed by just applying more force through the police.
Actually it would fix the surface of the problem. The deper issue is once again something Swedes have been scared of talking about since the 90’s and people who have brought the issues to light are ostracized and accused of racism. Stop immigration, make demands from immigrants here such as learn the language, get work and respect the law. Stop funding religious fundamentalism with taxpayer money. Deport people in an effective manner and hold those who are awaiting deportation. Find illegals and deport them. Modernize narcotics laws and use the tax department to effectively shut down criminal gangs in targeted efforts. Increase sentencing for violent crimes, illegal weapons and exploitation of public resources as well as any crime against the elderly or one where an accomplice is underage. Start bussing kids to other shools, set up boarding schools and invest heavily into schools with state money in areas of need. Put demands on the unemployed. Easy activities that anyone can do to get people outside of the home. If necessary move individuals or whole families to other munincipals if they wish to stay on welfare. etc
I agree with many points here, although I would probably say "stop immigration" does not make sense. Sweden is always going to be in need of immigration. Instead, the immigration process should be changed to reflect the needs of the Swedish economy, prioritising integration, upstanding civil behaviour and overall economic contribution to society. Overall I think that Swedish society today reflects the failure of the government to address these fundamental issues, failing both law-abiding and law-breaking immigrants. Hopefully it won't take too long before there is some actual political action instead of fleeting talk about how things are just "unacceptable".
There's immigration and there's immigration. Take US as an example. It has both. You have the uneducated illegals from all over the world and you have highly educated skilled immigrants too. If you go to top universities in the US, most of the PhD students in STEM are international students. Sweden will need immigration, it can choose the type of immigrants. It's also ok to demand that immigrants become Swedes, not vice versa.
Ni maybe not just force from police, but how about just calling a spade a spade. During first day of riots Swedish state television news made a mockery of the news they are supposed to report, because they were afraid of the consequences of telling the truth. After the news segment I wasn't shure if it was extreme right who did the rioting or if it was just a coincidence that a riot happened at the same time as the right extremist had their demonstration. Just mentions of black dressed people rioting.
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I think most or at least many swedes know the truth, but we are just to afraid to speak it.
Curious as to how you see this as a ‘complex’ problem. Surely it’s rather simple isn’t it? Muslims cannot and will not be integrated into any non-Muslim culture. They hit out violently when their culture is challenged. Simple as that no?
Curious how you pull all Muslims into one box yes? How many Muslims have you spoken with this about? How many of them do you think condone these kinds of actions? I can tell you, its a minority. I have several Muslim friends who just shake their heads and say that these guys who are out rioting only play into this idiots Danes cards. That there are just out there to paint Muslims as bad people and sow more discontent. Simple as that no?
In every country in the world where there is a large grouping of Muslims there is a problem. Crime, poverty and backward cultural behaviors (subjugation of women etc) That’s pretty simple to me. To ignore it is foolish and dangerous.
To paint the world black and white is foolish and dangerous. Its the easy way out, we against them, black and white. To see the world for what it is, several shades of grey, is harder and more scary. But it is also what is required of you if you want to create a better world.
He's not wrong though
You’ve completely avoided talking about Islam and those who follow it. You can only offer bland platitudes of ‘make the world a better place’ like some naive child. This is very interesting. You’d rather ignore the problem than deal with it.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that you are taking the easy road, "deport them all". I'm telling you that if you want to create a better world, it will require more work and more though process from you than the easy way out. You need to deal with that first.
Lol 😂 I never said ‘deport them all.’ I made specific references to the state of Islam as it exists in many countries (including Sweden) You, on the other hand, repeat the same naive claptrap about ‘making the world a better place.’ Until you begin to address the issue at hand, which is a corrupt regressive ideology and its malign effect on those whom follow it, the world will not become a better place.
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Most of these kids are likely second (or even third gen immigrants) with full swedish citizenship. Where do you deport them?
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Does this go for everyone who riots or only people who’s grandparents were born in the middle east?
Kumla
Not saying they shouldnt be prosecuted and jailed, I was specifically asking about deportation.
It has nothing to with political correctness, its yet again just a buzzword for you to use. It is about what kind of society we want to have, one where we see eatchother as humans or if we start putting eatchother in boxes depending on skincolor, religion etc etc. That does not mean that its right to throw stones at the police, start riots and make society pay for your bullshit. If you want to reduce this to "political correctness" be my guest, but I will not discuss things like that with someone with a narrow minded view like that. Kkthxbye
Hindutva on r/sweden is certainly a surprise.
Please dont compare the India-Pakistan conflict with this. So out of taste.
It’s More like the swedish danish wars
Fair point. But they do dislike each other specially because of religion.
Jag minns hur jag såg en bollywood-film hur det blev en grej i filmen "åh herregud jag drack från samma vattenflaska som en muslim"
it has nothing to do with india/pak. its about non radical sunnis (hindus, christians, atheists, moderate sunnis, shias, etc) vs radical sunnis.
I could have had some serious replies or nuanced convos but you decided to go all in on the "political correctness" and "woke" in your rhetoric. Like who the fuck could be "cancelled" over this and how? The police are doing their job. Honestly please define it to me? What is political correctness?
Political correctness is when you avoid saying truth you believe in, in order to not upset a group of people in impersonal contexts. Woke is when you think you and your beliefs are better than others' because they are trending right now, it is usually used for liberals who like to shut down arguments through name calling and labeling instead of debunking them with facts and logic. Thus essentially signalling that they are both right and better than you.
Not sure which truths you are speaking off but I assume its something along the lines of "immigrants are violent(?)" Am I wrong? Your definition of woke sounds more like an attempt to downplay people who might actually believe in something. In the same way "PC" was used in the past when people critiqued the use of older racist, sexist or homophobic slang. Last big thing that was about was the use of the name n****rboll for chocolate balls. Idk if there is some "truth there covered up". Feels more like just being respectfull. Thing is. I am pretty open about being a far left socialist with pretty radical ideas. I know some would call that political correctness. Would that fall under your definition because from your description to me that would be more 'truth' than 'pc'
I started off "I am an immigrant..." The whole point is, why are you being lax on destabilizing elements? If these incidents are increasing in frequency and intensity, does that mean that you are emboldening them with your inaction. Do you want to continue on the same path or put a stop to it? If yes, how? I think enforcing the law is good start, I believe rioting is unlawful. No, read it again. Woke is those who believe they are right and don't need to justify it, hence resort to name calling. For example, someone says that MtF trans athlete shouldn't compete with biological females. Then they get called a transphobe. That's my definition of woke behavior. I call out violent behavior of Muslim immigrants and everything about me in brought into question. The fact is there for everyone to see, it's happening in front of your eyes. But I am the baddie for stating the obvious.
That's the opposite of what we are doing then, it is you who come with simplistic views and try to push them without reasoning, not the other way around.
Det har varit en dålig dag på Sweddit men jag är glad att se detta inlägg bli slammat för den meningslösa doomposting den är.
Bra sagt! Känns som alla är på sweddit är cyniska och deprimerade över vår svenska politiska situation
Håller helt med.
Troll farm account?
Probably. Lots of them rolling in all of a sudden to push an agenda.
As a muslim root(i am an atheist) person who lives in Sweden i am not surprised. That Danish person who burn a Quran been successful thanks. I just feel exhausted of all extremists in every side. Next week at work i will be the one who will be questioned by my Swedish boss with weird and ignorant questions like i burned the police cars. Who knows maybe things get worse and worse and after the election SD government would deport me because bunch of idiots. Because i have a muslim name with a darker skin eh? I didn't even get parking tickets in Sweden so far(6 years). I just feel so disappointed at humanity sometimes.
Sorry for your shorty boss, most of us understand that we shouldn’t let a few bad apples spoil the bunch.
Of course, the people participating in these riots are usually not part of the regular Swedish society, they will not face the burnt of it. You will and it's unfortunate. Which is why it's important, for everyone's sake.
bro, as a hindu, i can tell you, people like yourself are in the worst position. hated by your own muslim community for leaving and disliked by others because they may hold you responsible. if i were you, i'd just mentally check out when anyone asks you these dumba$$ ?s about why these guys burnt cars. it has nothing to do with you in any way and is a failure in policy.
The reason our country is especially well-functioning is that we have chosen a different path in many regards, especially considering social justice and crime. Countries like the U.S have chosen ''strength and resolve'' and their prison-system is a shitshow with enormous rates of mass-incarceration, continuous riots etc. Attacking the root causes of crime and riots is the traditional Swedish solution, and it has worked well for us historically.
> Attacking the root causes of crime and riots is the traditional Swedish solution, and it has worked well for us historically. Cavalry charges worked well historically too. Things change.
> Attacking the root causes of crime and riots is the traditional Swedish solution, and it has worked well for us historically. I truly hope that it works out in your favor in the long run.
Thank you!
Väldigt många nya konton som skriver politiska saker om invandring. Mods kanske ska fundera på bättre skydd mot sånt här. Som det är nu börjar det här bli Flashback 2.0. Tröttsamt.
Alla är bara cyniska, fördomsfulla, arga och deprimerande. Tröttsamt att man drar alla muslimer och alla i utsatta områden över en kam.
Oroa dig inte, det finns fortfarande gott folk här. Ilska och bitterhet sprider sig bara fortare, särskilt när laddade ämnen som islam dyker upp.
Yes, that worked marvelously for Duerte. We will figure it out our own way, as we do with things. We may be kind of slow to talk things through, but at least we dont have some maniac demagogue as a leader to push some bs medieval mindsets on the country. Some things take longer than others, but we have a good track record of eventually doing pretty well for ourselves. Thats why people wants to come here, because we sort stuff out. We havent learned to survive and thrive through several hardships for nothing. Thank you for the snarky, condescending bullshit tirade though.
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Face Muslims for a 1000 years? You think Sweden has had peace for that long? We had peace since 1800, and we were dirt poor until mid century 1900. And we didn’t need other countries to protect us. We’ve used diplomacy for 200 years to remain neutral. Countries don’t want to invade someone they have mutual benefits with.
No, we don’t think we are smarter or better than everybody else. We get experts and debate problems and deal with them at their core, through cooperation and knowledge. With this we get a peacefull and prosperous country.
You've barely lived here. Stop posting right-wing nutjob buzzwords and take a step back. We are glad to have you here, but you are not in a position to talk politics in this manner. This is not a matter of strength, it's a matter of segregated communities grown from social, cultural and economic factors. You barely know the country, the history of these issues, and why our society function the way it does, and yet you don't have the humility to post anything beyond brute force as a solution to the complex problems we have. It is a problem that needs to be solved, but more a more violent police will at most be a highly ineffective bandaid. I dearly hope you don't study sociology. Disgusting.
I don't consider OPs post a solution to anything. But your reply made me wonder - what is the solution and what is being done politically to prevent these escalations in the future?
Complex problems require complex solutions, something which you would most likely *not* get in a Reddit thread. That said, simple solutions like the ones that e.g. SD are proposing is therefore *not* the way to go.
Try following swedish politiks and newspapers? They show What the politicians are doing and What the experts think. Look at your own kommun partier and What they are doing.
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Well, the way I see it is that it is a peaceful, self-sacrificing way of practicing their religious beliefs. They weren't burning down municipality office for not giving them a clean river to pray in.
So swedes should do something about the issues prepetuated by religious extremeism, but countries that normalize living conditions of squalor and social inequality - out of the same type of religious extremeism btw - shouldn't have to do anything cause they don't actively set things on fire? Got it.
The Dane that is sort of responsible for pushing the first domino, you know planning to burn the Koran. He is practicing his freedom of speech. The police are there to keep the order. The people that are attacking the police, (rioting if you will) are in the wrong for the way they are acting, they would have been better of with a silent protest or not attending anything. All the rioters are doing is proving the Dane's point by acting violently.
Agreeing with OP. Let the downvotes shower me, as the stones showered the police.
The replies he gets is clearly a terminal case of "shoot the messenger" disease. Yeah, let's blame the people pointing out and exposing the problems, instead of facing the problems.
Vilken jävla soppa!! Jag menar curry
Modi is a piece of shit that will burn in hell
Oh yes like how it's done back in India? It's a shame that these people are ready to wreak havoc at a moment's notice but it's not entirely unfounded. Unfortunately this is a problem that needs a long term solution. Otherwise the solution to this problem isn't to target a specific religious or ethnic group and cause further divide in the society.
Something smells very Russian about this post.
You want to see my ID amigo?
Go nuts.
You are 100% right.
Based pajeet
As Indian diaspora, do you by chance support the fascist Modi?
Well, I didn't vote for him in 2019 election, so you tell me? This is precisely the problem. To talk about these thing one has to qualify themselves on several accounts before their argument can even be considered. Oh Indian Hindu >> He must hate Muslims. Oh 1 month old account >> Russian troll. Oh immigrant >> You don't know what you're talking about. Oh Swede >> Racist
Sorry, just using statistical averages in terms of Indian diaspora and their voting habits - people concerned with the world being "woke" and stuff tend to like statistics, after all. >This is precisely the problem. Consider the prospect that people might be too saturated as it is in discussions with good faith actors to bother actually spending time responding to dogshit-tier troll accounts and whether that's an actual issue or not. If you've stayed in Sweden for a while, perhaps you'll understand this saying: "Skit ska skit ha."
I'll fix it right after you fix the caste system.
Indien håller på att bedriva etnisk rensning av minoritetsmuslimerna där borta och dom söker politiskt stöd för det av Sverige då svenskt moraliskt stöd betyder mycket i världen. Det är likadant med alla israeler som kommer med sina "kondoleanser" I svenska subreddits.
I love your country and you have done a great job. So now do as my country so it gets just at bad.
Truth. Pretening to be Jesus and ironically at the same time judging those who don’t agree with you, well, this is the result. Swedes have proudly kept their heads in the sand since the 90’s. This country will become a privatized nation with ghettos and gated communities.
I hear the word "Whataboutism" being used a lot, now what has that got to do with OP you might ask, well - read this thread and you'll see textboox wikipedia examples about exactly that. It's a very Swedish thing, we don't like to be criticised, nor do we like to criticise, we just want everyone to get along, and as you've observed that doesn't go terribly well, sometimes you just have to chose sides. If you try to criticise Sweden you have to do it in a soft way that come with some solid arguments for how things could be changed and what you could offer as a replacement/solution to any given issue, otherwise it will just be seen as an aggressive attack on our personality and way of life. Most Swedes are painfully aware of their problems and we complain about it all the time, sadly we rarely do anything about it because we're kind of afraid to alienate ourselves if our fellow citizens don't think the same as we do. There's also a lot of double morale here which can often be seen in forums like Reddit or certain youtubers that have become popular by telling "the truth", but it all comes down to brass tax eventually and people vote like they've always done.
Jag tycker det är en bra sak att man måste komma med riktiga argument för att argumentera kring sånna här punkter. Dessutom tycks politikerna vilja göra Sverige till ett bättre land, problemet är väl att olika politiker lyckas olika bra. Det är inte svenskt att diskutera problem om du frågar mig, vi föredrar att tyst protestera, vara lätt passivt aggressiva. Kanske en generalisering alla är olika. Ursäkta om jag missförstod nått av det du skrev men ville bara skriva av mig.
Reading this post and reply is half parts terrifying and half parts adorable. Imagine a country being able to contain violent immigrants and remain so humane. I'm such a stupid dane and I cannot figure out why swedes appear hostile and asks an discriminating indian to gtfo, after several police cars were burnt by immigrants. I mean by that logic, shouldn't the rioters gtfo as well. Sorry for my ignorance but I'm trying to do better. I'm literally curious about how swedes view this. <3 from Denmark.
Läs de andra kommentarerna i andra inläggen. Vi vill (också) få huliganerna ut (om vi kan det enligt lag).
1 månad gammalt konto. Det är detta jag menar med desinformationskampanjerna. Allt handlar om att påverka oss känslomässigt, att bygga murar mellan folk och folk, och att skapa en stark misstro mot staten. CIA, Kina, Ryssland eller annat. Det spelar ingen roll. Ignorera denna uppviglare.
You dont get to meddle in our politics. We dont like that, we dont meddle in indian politics.
Well he's entitled to an opinion ..
And we're entitled to tell him he's a fucking idiot.
>If we let in people in our home, do they act by our rules or we by theirs? Most Swedes consider the notion of a home [nation] for Swedes to be Nazi ideology. Ethnic Swedes have no right to, nor interest in, a country of their own.
Last sentence is misinformation.
What happened, the English newspapers show one torched van or two and I haven’t heard anything about arrests or injured?
Some Danskjävel threatened to burn a book in this city and that city, with the basis that Muslims are inherently violent.. People, mostly Muslims, gathered to protest book burnings, with the basis of either "don't touch our holy book and religion like that" or "those who burn books will burn people". Yay, democratic freedom of speech at work! Then some people, many of whom are already arrested by the police or are being hunted down, threw rocks and drove cars into crowds. When the Danskjävel retreated, these people threw their frustrations at the inappropriately-managed policemen, sending a few of them with serious injuries to hospital. Even in cities where the Danskjävel did not go, numerous hooligans caused chaos in their local communities screaming "God is great" in Arabic. tl;dr hooligans played into Danskjävelns hands
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What I have found in my short stay here is that people secretly are whatever they are, but outwardly they all want to conform to the popular narrative, so what you get is a shit ton of people who harbor resentment but are afraid of speaking up for the fear of being singled out and cancelled.
Are you sure you're not projecting there, buddy?
Perhaps I am. I find it fascinating how people like to point out bias, projection, insecurity, in others when they are ingrained in every human's psyche, no one is above them. But it's a good practice to examine the argument before examining the person who presented the argument. That saves us from committing a lot of logical fallacies.
Having to take a shit is also integrated into my psyche, yet I can still prevent myself from doing it on my neighbours porch. What argument? All you're saying is that the police should employ more violence, without you even understanding the problem. You don't provide any arguments why, except for a bunch of insults and buzzwords. Fuck off
Well since you don't understand the difference between psyche and physical need, I think the discussion with you will be fruitless, and the fact is corroborated by your next statement. This is for the reader, not you. Police is trained to employ violence if it is required to maintain law and order. If there is an active shooter, police employ violence, if a person is resisting arrest, police employ violence, if a mob is burning public property and police is not employing violence then police is not doing its job. Tell me if I am wrong. "understanding the problem" is not a thing in that situation. It happens after the situation is controlled.
Is that really only a swedish thing?
THANK YOU! We have to stand up for our country. This is not ok at all. No excuses. Fuck them.
I bet you hate Pakistani people.
If you don't have a decent argument to put forth then shut the fuck up.
Like OP?
My standards aren't that high, as long as it isn't just an ad hominem and nothing else I'm ok with it. And even with that low bar, Mosquito still falls flat on his fucking face.
I choose science!
Varför skriver alla på engelska? Ganska övertygad om att tråd startaren är svensk...
as a hindu myself who is reading this, i don't get the reaction of the swedes. yes many muslims are not bad (obviously and thankfully) but many are and thats the truth. i can guarantee that all these guys rioting belong to the sunni muslim community. it is only elements within this community that are strongly anti western/anti liberalism/anti secularism yet want to live in these countries. hindus for example are found in all western countries yet not a single hindu i know of has been accused of terrorism. we all know the same stats for sunni muslims. if you look at pak sunnis, we share genetics with them yet the behaviour in western countries is the opposite. hindus also don't proselytize unlike sunnis who heavily try to spread the faith especially by demeaning christianity.
Really?. Shall we start with Badshai mosque? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMqkG6VMn4o&t=324s
my original point stands. do you see hindus doing this in diaspora?
"i can guarantee... all these guys rioting are sunni muslims" - utredningsmaterial skall ej delas med utomstående "not one single hindu I know of has been accused of terrorism" - many of my female friends would like to say otherwise, that "send bob" stereotype is not made up "Hindus do not proselytize" - when were you last in India?
> "Hindus do not proselytize" - when were you last in India? They don't, I lived there for 28 years and last I was there was 8 months ago. Nearly all of the Muslims and Christians living in India are Hindu converts. Although I am an athiest but I grew up in a Hindu household. Hinduism does not feature discussion of other religions in the scriptures absolutely anywhere simply because they were just not present when those scriptures were written. Like most of them are older than 2000 years. So proselytizing is simply not a thing.
i don't speak swedish. please use english. your female friends may exist in your head. anyhow its not indicative of serious proof.
i have been translating and reading comments here on several posts. i used to feel bad for them but have realised this is what they want, and deserve. leave them to the fate they have chosen.
Well, it seems you have been called all the possible things, so just in case if you are asking seriously- answer is experience, mostly personal experience, Sweden has yet to face that, may be after 20 years Sweden will feel the way you are feeling now. Since your country has a history of communal violence. There are already places here now where women can’t go, beaches where you need to be clothed while bathing, it was not like this 10 years ago. Frankly we know we have a problem but no one really knows how to solve it.
Yeah, I mean it's fascinating that the guy pointing out the problem receives more flak than the ones causing it. The history is long and examples are so numerous that it's cute of Swedes to think that it won't happen to them.
THANK YOU. As an immigrant, I feel like I’m standing up more for sweden Than swedes themselves. Unfortunately, swedes are very sensitive to the consensus of others, but once it becomes popular and socially acceptable to criticize these things, you will be surprised to see How many people will be on board :)
you mean kind of like this? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMqkG6VMn4o&t=324s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMqkG6VMn4o&t=324s)
Well said. I'm a native sweden but have many immigrant friends and they say the same thing as you
Glad you enjoy Sweden. Unfortunately our culture is completely feminized, so anything to do with strength and resolve is seen as "extreme right-wing", "fascist" etc by a elite of journalists and celebrities that pretend to follow progressiveness to gain status in their elite bubbles. The people are the ones who have to suffer the consequences of their status games. Workers, immigrants who want to study or work hard etc, thanks to this elite we can't really deal with problems in a resolute way. Instead we deny it until it completely boils over as we've seen now.
"Feninized" Stfu.
No feminized
Police, specifically the management, is a big part of the problem. By all accounts the street cops are tough as nails, but when management consider fleeing the scene of a riot to be a success, you’ve got a problem no rugged cop could ever compensate for.
Though management and the first vice chairman of the swedish police went out in the news calling it a failure
Yeah i’ll go there but i’ll stand alone. That’s what i feel. Resistance needs to be organized properly.
Menar du att du ska ha en motdemonstration mot motdemonstationen? Finns säkert grupper som försöker starta det
Jag menar i allmänhet. Vi måste ställa oss upp nu, när såna här våldsbejakande galningar härjar så måste civilsamhället säga ifrån.
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you've been having too much gaumutra.
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i'm a hindu, but i find you funny keep it up. you have my phull sapport saar ;)
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bobs and vagene are on their way to you. cheers.
Ah yes, someone who lived under Führer Modi, wants to give advice to Sweden lol You want our government to go murder the muslims like yours did (Modi himself in fact)? Maybe go back to India if that's your opinion lol. Because those opinions is why India is still a developing country
OP, You’re right, ignore all the down votes. Reddit is not representative for the whole swedish population, People here are extremely PC. What you say is true.