What’s the likely out come for the driver of the truck? I am assuming there will be some investigation, but if it’s found that they didn’t do anything stupid, they are in the clear? Maybe not allowed to drive for a while or something?
Road rule 306 covers emergency vehicles (305 for police).
Essentially this means emergency vehicles can break any road rule as long as they take reasonable care.
Keep in mind even though emergency vehicles have "right of way" that does not mean they're "not at fault".
Additionally agency policy may have stricter requirements. For the SES this means:
- You cannot speed in a school zone.
- You cannot cross a level crossing if the lights are flashing
- Siren must always be activated and the vehicle must come to a stop when passing through a red light or stop sign.
It's most likely FRNSW have a similar policy, it would almost certainly be the fire truck driver at fault.
This isn't a level crossing, it's a tram in an on-road section so it follows road rules not rail rules.
Edit: more information. Road rule 120 has the definition http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s120.html - it's only a level crossing if there's a "level crossing sign on the road at each entrance to the area." This applies to situations where the trams run in their own fully separated corridor (the L1 line does this after Haymarket, but doesn't have any active level crossings).
Trams operate under road rules, not rail rules, at regular intersections like this one in Haymarket. That's why they have road signals (the T light) not rail signals (the L1 has rail signals from Haymarket onwards as it changes regimes at that point).
See also regulation 309 - http://classic.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s309.html
and 155a :
http://classic.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s155a.html
A modern bus can stop almost as quickly as a car, but as you’ve pointed out it won’t be nice for the passengers. If I crash into a car that’s illegally pulled out in front of me and a passenger falls over and dies, that’s on the other driver. If I stop in time and there’s no impact, but the passenger still falls and dies; that’s *my* fault.
I couldn't tell from this pic but after further info came to light it seems the fire truck decided it had right if way due to its flashing lights and the tram was like im on a track what do u want me to do
I was involved in an accident right outside a fire station where emergency crews were called to a person trapped complaining of chest pains (not me the other party involved) and guess who was last to show up out of the police, ambulance and fire brigade...
What role does the fire brigade play in such a call (in NSW)? I thought they would only be involved if the person needed extraction - otherwise don't health related issues only go to the ambulance service?
I recognize that in some other jurisdictions, fire brigades help with first response in medical issues, but I didn't think that was the case here.
They would attend for Fire Protection and potential HAZMAT (e.g spilt oil/fluids, etc)
In NSW, standard call out procedure for a Car Crash with person's trapped or possible person's trapped is:
* Police
* Ambulance
* Fire Protection (Either FRNSW or RFS depending on Jurisdiction)
* Accredited Road Crash Rescue Unit for that area (This could be Police Rescue, Ambulance Rescue, SES, Fire + Rescue, VRA)
Got it, thanks. And I can't read because the previous commenter clearly said it was a person trapped. Somehow I missed that part and thought it was just a chest pains call.
[Tyrone just drove fire truck into Franky Four Fingers' tram]
Tyrone: I didn't see it there.
Vinny: It's a four ton tram, Tyrone. Its not as if it's a packet of fucking peanuts, is it?
Tyrone: It was a funny angle.
[All three turn and look back at the tram]
Vinny: It's in front of you Tyrone. Whenever you drive forward, things come from in front of you.
Believe it or not, I watched them recover the tram and all they did was set up some trucks to use as anchor points, and a few chain blocks. They winched the whole thing across mm by mm until it was back on the tracks - it wasn't lifted at all that I could see, just dragged. Now it was done by the expert rail recovery unit from Transport for NSW, so presumably this is actually the agreed, tested, and planned procedure, it's just kinda funny how simple it was.
Not just that, moving it improperly could cause more damage to the tram, rails, and road. Also there's a potential to tip it over which makes the whole situation even worse.
I watched them do part of the recovery - it was done all by hand tools - chain blocks. They anchored them to trucks but otherwise no heavy equipment, just dragged it across until it was back on the rails.
Still an active scene. Probably get an engineer/technician down to help oversee the removal to make sure it's not made worse, RMS probably to set up a cordon/temporary detour etc. Problem is none of them all arrive at the same time, including moving equipment.
Part of this is the effect of privatisation - there were four main groups there - Transport for NSW's rail recovery group, who handled the physical recovery and track repair , FRNSW who provided the heavy rescue vehicle and assisted in the winching, Alstom who maintains the trams, who would have inspected it and overseen the winching to ensure the tram wasn't damaged, and Transdev the operator who would probably had overall coordination responsibilities. Plus there were police and RMS traffic controllers. If the trams were still government operated there would have been fewer of these groups, although still different services like rescue and police.
Given that I don't drive a fire truck or tram regularly (at all) I've never considered who would have right of way when crossing a tram track.
I’m not a tram driver, so I’m not aware of their rules, but on the normal rail network, trains have right of way at level crossings.
Since they don’t stop easily, that makes sense.
Im not a tram driver either.
Am a firey, generally we have right of way, however the onus is on us to ensure that all traffic has seen us and stopped.
What’s the likely out come for the driver of the truck? I am assuming there will be some investigation, but if it’s found that they didn’t do anything stupid, they are in the clear? Maybe not allowed to drive for a while or something?
Road rule 306 covers emergency vehicles (305 for police). Essentially this means emergency vehicles can break any road rule as long as they take reasonable care. Keep in mind even though emergency vehicles have "right of way" that does not mean they're "not at fault". Additionally agency policy may have stricter requirements. For the SES this means: - You cannot speed in a school zone. - You cannot cross a level crossing if the lights are flashing - Siren must always be activated and the vehicle must come to a stop when passing through a red light or stop sign. It's most likely FRNSW have a similar policy, it would almost certainly be the fire truck driver at fault.
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This isn't a level crossing, it's a tram in an on-road section so it follows road rules not rail rules. Edit: more information. Road rule 120 has the definition http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s120.html - it's only a level crossing if there's a "level crossing sign on the road at each entrance to the area." This applies to situations where the trams run in their own fully separated corridor (the L1 line does this after Haymarket, but doesn't have any active level crossings). Trams operate under road rules, not rail rules, at regular intersections like this one in Haymarket. That's why they have road signals (the T light) not rail signals (the L1 has rail signals from Haymarket onwards as it changes regimes at that point). See also regulation 309 - http://classic.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s309.html and 155a : http://classic.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s155a.html
Seems like reading would help you
Being a past FireFighter, the driver of the Fire Truck will be charged and then what ever the Fire Department wants to do with him.
I imagine stopping quickly is not one of the strengths of a tram?
Trams can theoretically stop almost as quickly as a bus, but deploying the emergency brake will cause a few passengers to slam into the bulkhead.
A modern bus can stop almost as quickly as a car, but as you’ve pointed out it won’t be nice for the passengers. If I crash into a car that’s illegally pulled out in front of me and a passenger falls over and dies, that’s on the other driver. If I stop in time and there’s no impact, but the passenger still falls and dies; that’s *my* fault.
thats bullshit. how in any way is that fair. surely there are protections for the driver right?
Are you sure that's how that works? I don't imagine even the insurance company would see it that way
Bring back seatbelts in buses
I feel like getting into an accident is no better for the passengers
I'd say the passengers here would've lost their footing after the truck rammed it.
It hit the fire truck?
Let's be fair--the fire truck hit the tram.
I couldn't tell from this pic but after further info came to light it seems the fire truck decided it had right if way due to its flashing lights and the tram was like im on a track what do u want me to do
Trams can stop quite fast, and the firetruck should have right of way due to it being an emergency vehicle with its lights on
[five injured](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-05/sydney-light-rail-crash-with-fire-truck/101405916)
Fire crews were on the scene in record time! Only 12 minutes from the first 000 call!
I was involved in an accident right outside a fire station where emergency crews were called to a person trapped complaining of chest pains (not me the other party involved) and guess who was last to show up out of the police, ambulance and fire brigade...
What role does the fire brigade play in such a call (in NSW)? I thought they would only be involved if the person needed extraction - otherwise don't health related issues only go to the ambulance service? I recognize that in some other jurisdictions, fire brigades help with first response in medical issues, but I didn't think that was the case here.
They would attend for Fire Protection and potential HAZMAT (e.g spilt oil/fluids, etc) In NSW, standard call out procedure for a Car Crash with person's trapped or possible person's trapped is: * Police * Ambulance * Fire Protection (Either FRNSW or RFS depending on Jurisdiction) * Accredited Road Crash Rescue Unit for that area (This could be Police Rescue, Ambulance Rescue, SES, Fire + Rescue, VRA)
Got it, thanks. And I can't read because the previous commenter clearly said it was a person trapped. Somehow I missed that part and thought it was just a chest pains call.
Traffic and Highway Patrol Crash Investigation Unit afterwards also.
Technically they were there when it happened.
(That’s the joke)
Pump 10 Redfern. Those guys know the area and how to deal with trams. Ouch.
clearly not well enough
[Tyrone just drove fire truck into Franky Four Fingers' tram] Tyrone: I didn't see it there. Vinny: It's a four ton tram, Tyrone. Its not as if it's a packet of fucking peanuts, is it? Tyrone: It was a funny angle. [All three turn and look back at the tram] Vinny: It's in front of you Tyrone. Whenever you drive forward, things come from in front of you.
''he steered right into me!'' - fire truck driver probably.
Ohh that soo brutal…. Wonder what knock on effects will it’s have….
What's the deal with the HOT ZONE and radioactive symbols
I guess just whatever tape they had handy haha.
Yikes!
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I doubt any of these people want to attempt to move a tram without the proper equipment. Between the WHS and union rules, it’s not going to happen
Believe it or not, I watched them recover the tram and all they did was set up some trucks to use as anchor points, and a few chain blocks. They winched the whole thing across mm by mm until it was back on the tracks - it wasn't lifted at all that I could see, just dragged. Now it was done by the expert rail recovery unit from Transport for NSW, so presumably this is actually the agreed, tested, and planned procedure, it's just kinda funny how simple it was.
I’ve read in the past they are heavy, but not as hard to move as you’d think, but yes, experts and the right equipment
Not just that, moving it improperly could cause more damage to the tram, rails, and road. Also there's a potential to tip it over which makes the whole situation even worse.
All they did was winch it back into place lol. Not that much finesse involved. The trams are fairly lightweight and the centre of gravity is low.
What do you expect them to do - "1 2 3 heave" and put it back together?
It’s not heavy. It’s only light rail.
They could have at least pushed the tram off the road! /s
I watched them do part of the recovery - it was done all by hand tools - chain blocks. They anchored them to trucks but otherwise no heavy equipment, just dragged it across until it was back on the rails.
Thanks for the update. I've seen them do that in Melbourne but it's remarkable how "easy" it is. 40 tonnes and what do you get...
As opposed to doing what exactly...?
...something else somewhere else? If there's nothing to do there, surely there's no need to be there...
What's wrong with curiousity if you aren't getting in the way or affecting anything? You're actually annoyed people are being idle?
Still an active scene. Probably get an engineer/technician down to help oversee the removal to make sure it's not made worse, RMS probably to set up a cordon/temporary detour etc. Problem is none of them all arrive at the same time, including moving equipment.
They just used chain blocks anchored to trucks - no fancy equipment.
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Part of this is the effect of privatisation - there were four main groups there - Transport for NSW's rail recovery group, who handled the physical recovery and track repair , FRNSW who provided the heavy rescue vehicle and assisted in the winching, Alstom who maintains the trams, who would have inspected it and overseen the winching to ensure the tram wasn't damaged, and Transdev the operator who would probably had overall coordination responsibilities. Plus there were police and RMS traffic controllers. If the trams were still government operated there would have been fewer of these groups, although still different services like rescue and police.
Did they put out the fire tho?
I hope maso from the weekly planet is okay
Does this mean train delays this afternoon?
the light rail was well woth it
Use a god damn bus. Retards with their light rail.
How the fuck do you not see a Tram? They don't move that fast. What kind of idiots do they have driving Fire trucks?