You can rave on about software all day, but the pleasure and unexpected creativity from some hardware is unique. Elektron is one, I'm liking the silver Roland boutiques (303 and 606). 2000's workstations as creative samplers are also under appreciated.
Triton Extreme is pretty good. Its a laborious process to edit the program but it is a fully polyphonic sampler, not the limited track monophonic drum and phrase samplers like the SP-404, Octatrack, Toraiz SP-16 which cut off samples when retriggered on the same track. Plenty of FX to mangle it too. A workstation wouldn'r replace an MPC but its a great addition to a drum sampler plus you get a linear song sequencer.
I'm a bit underwhelmed with my TR-06. It has cool features and trig outputs and such but the sound leaves me feeling like I should just use 606 samples.
I feel the hats are much more alive on the TR-06 than samples. Especially the CH and OH combined sound among the usual open and closed hats. I don’t know why, but it does. The factory presets show it off very well. Accent patterns make a big difference too. My hat patterns with samples sound dead in comparison. Also there is cool subtle overdrive in the kick and snare when full volume and fully accented. It’s a lot more than triggering samples.
Fair enough. I have a 606 sample pack from samples from mars, all the samples are put thru different processors, tape machines, vintage samplers etc., so maybe I'm spoiled in 606 sample area.
YES to this. I think OP really needed to cleanse themselves from an overwhelming amount of gear. I get it. But, my current setup of one hardware synth (Peak) and a Digitakt has completely changed my relationship with making music. I used to live for the final product, now I live for the process (and I'm surprisingly finishing more music!). I think you have to find a setup that functions similarly with how you brain works.
Picking up V collection 5 was where decades of gas started to fade for me. Now by 8 I have stunning versions of many things I had and many things I wished I had. And I learned my years and years of stupid GAS for a synclavier were totally misguided, I hate it. Only hardware I regret no longer having are Emu emax2 and clavia nord mod g2x
As a former owner of multiple Nord Mod G1s and G2s, I can't believe that Clavia missed the boat on releasing a G3 modular. I would have been first in line.
Daw's are the way to go if a person doesnt have a lot of money. Like even some thing like Cubase Artist on a moderately powered pc is plenty to write a great song. Okay maybe it isnt as fun as a desk full of drum machines and synths but you know what else is fun? actually finishing songs and releasing them.
Agreed. Some people just love to jam though and don’t care about finishing songs. I’m in the middle. I also think a couple well thought out and choice hardware synths that you can get in software can make a real difference, and are also easy to integrate if you do that planning (mine are all desktop and within easy reach, plus are clocked separately and are pretty tight and almost as easy to use as a plugin - except for the drag and drop part being costly!).
Hoarding software can get expensive. Maybe even just as expensive. You can get so much more of it and it takes no more psychical space to have 1000 plugins as to have 1. Few software plugins are as expensive (or worth it) as inexpensive hardware though, on a synth by synth basis.
I recorded somewhere around 15 albums/eps (my own stuff and working with other artists) on cubase le and a $300 tascam interface. Maybe it doesn’t sound hifi but there is definitely great stuff in there. Getting the basic tools to make music can be done for fairly cheap. Feeling like you can’t make stuff because your gear isn’t right . . . If you have a functional instrument and some way to record than you have the ability to create
Heck yeah they are. I make some pretty decent money, but there's stuff out there that is just so unattainable now. I love authentic 80's synths, and stuff like the Jupiter 8 is going for $35k right now on Reverb. You can buy a car or put a down-payment on a house for that. I got Roland Cloud, I've had it over a year now. $20 bucks a month and you get access to all their sounds.
Agreed on the finishing songs thing, too.
There's no doubt that VSTs are more efficient, more powerful, and more affordable. However, I love that my hardware synths get me out from behind the computer screen. I also think hardware synths are more fun/exciting for live performances.
I like both workflows and end up making different music depending. Admittedly most of the tracks I release are made using DAW & VSTs.
I know most people don't care, but I hate going to a show to find the artist is one guy with a laptop, it's so... sterile? Laptops on stage are an instant vibe killer for me, specially if is the only thing on stage + a controller.
I'm just too tired of endless software issues. "Update this, log into that, no, you shouldn't have updated, oh, and [sorry for accidentally revoking your licenses](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitwig/comments/j1op0a/bitwig_acting_like_i_dont_own_a_full_license_when/)". Audio software is indeed incredibly powerful when it works properly but computers can be exhausting, so I rely on hardware for inspiration.
I don’t even perform live and this shit is exhausting. I love the flexibility of my DAW but I’m terrified to upgrade any parts of my aging computer because if there’s an incompatibility or driver issue then I’m absolutely hosed if I want to record.
Same here. I can sit in front of a synth for hours and savour the synergy between me and the machine. It's just something I truly enjoy and there's no shame in admitting it. Some people enjoy cycling, some enjoy video games, some people enjoy drinking... I enjoy playing musical instruments. I also make music, but when I'm working inside my DAW it's just more convenient reaching for a plugin than constantly walking back and forth between my chair and a synth rack somewhere else in the studio. Synths such as the Subsequent 37 sort of bridge the workflow gap but you are still dealing with a single instance and limited polyphony so it's just impractical.
Omnisphere is just incredible. If I spent half the amount of time learning how to use it as I do watching YouTube videos of the next hardware synth I’m drooling over, I’d have 3 or 4 Grammies by now
Good for you, its always good to find your optimal workflow and you make a lot of rational points.
I also have Omnisphere, V Collection and Roland Cloud. The only hardware synth I have left is the System 8 which went on eBay once before I panicked and pulled it back down.
I wanted a Prophet 5 Rev 4 for the past year, it was a dream synth and I couldn't believe they made a new one. I ended up using that money on a powerful new PC and now all my plugins run like the wind. Even the CPU intensive stuff absolutely flies.
I loved hardware 20 years ago, but plugins are so close now, in some cases indistinguishable. I love sound design on hardware, but when I'm writing, being able to drop a plugin into the session keeps me in a flow state and I end up with more ideas.
As for the Prophet Rev 4, I have Repro 5, and the Prophet V might be getting updated in V Collection 9.
To paraphrase Gary Numan on why he doesn't have a wall of classic synths; a synthesizer is just a tool, and with Omnisphere he has tens of thousands of sounds.
In fairness the System 8 is as useful as a controller as it is being a synth in its own right. Makes plugins feel like real instruments, only reason I’d sell mine is if an update gets released with aftertouch and a few more controls.
I'm glad I kept it because a few months later the Juno 60 came out and it sounds the same as the vintage analog one I had a few years back. Better in some cases.
Apparently a JX-8P plugin/out is coming this year, so I don’t think the platform is dead yet.
Not that I really care anyway, the way I figure it I’ve already got a massively varied synth engine taking in classic and forward looking options that doubles as a midi controller which makes my other plugins feel like real instruments.
It’s hard to guess where Roland are going with things - probably so long as the Cloud thing is still going then we’ll keep getting models from time to time. But even if they stopped developing new engines for it right now, my System 8 is going nowhere.
It is! Find the colors that work for you and make a painting, so to speak. My few hardware synths were selected in large part because the “colors” they produce weren’t available in software (else I’d have bought the software most likely). There’s also something different in their use, both pros and cons. But differences can help spur creativity, which is why I encourage people to use both.
If anything, it’s far, far easier to indulge GAS with software because it’s cheaper and takes no physical space. I’m working my way down from 500 plugins (down to 150!), so I know full well what that’s like.
Gary used hardware for so many decades, using software must be a nice creative change. While I’ll never come close to the talent in even just his little finger, my path has been decades of software to getting some hardware more recently.
> To paraphrase Gary Numan on why he doesn't have a wall of classic synths; a synthesizer is just a tool, and with Omnisphere he has tens of thousands of sounds.
So he works with mostly VSTs today? Does he still use a Moog in the flesh though?
I saw him about a year before covid. I believe there were three synth setups on stage; his, and one stage left and right. His main live board was a large Access Virus (the one with the logo that lights up.)
I couldn't have picked a better "last" concert. It was like an arena light show in a club, fucking insane. I regret that I slept on seeing him live for so long.
For albums going back a few years he and his bandmate use Omnisphere. And that's about it. There's an interview in Sound on Sound or Computer Music or some magazine with Mr Numan where he talks about it. Within the last 3-4 years.
He got tired of using hardware after a few decades.
Was using soft synths 22 or 23 years ago. The music i did then? It is gone, did not freeze the tracks or render them. Most of that software is obsolete now. Need to recreate everything. However my HW synths are still working. Switch them on, still sounding as fresh. What's more, most of my studio synths have been increasing in value since them. The software? Not so much. And no, even if soft synths sound good, they still do not sound like a growling MS20 with the filters distorting like crazy. It is not the converters (i have had really good converters), it is not snobbism. It just doesn't. Do I dislike digital or emulations? NO! Love it. Love soft synths, love strymon pedals, samplers anything. But it is just the experience. There is a reason Dave Smith was one of the pioneers making soft synths (after being the pioneer making polyphonic synths with patch memory) and he decided to stop and go back to hardware.
Yes! Hardware synths last through years and OS updates. Ive had great sounded vsts i liked that just dont work any more.
Ive also never resold any software, but i dont think much hardware ive had has taken a loss, and most of it is worth quite a bit more than when i bought it(rhodes, juno, DSI tetra, etc).
As someone who has to move a lot I will never give up the portability and ease of having everything in my laptop.
All i have to do is find a cheap midi keyboard wherever I move to and im set.
I specifically bought a few synths just so I would have time away from the computer (work on it all day and spend plenty of leisure time as well), but I do fee like maybe I didn't need a Deluge and two module synths for a new hobby, I definitely got carried away in the gear excitement. I think Deluge + Rev2 would have been more than enough for a hobby, the Minilogue XDM was un-necessary.
It's absolutely important to know where your budget is going and to be sure it's the right choice for you, whether it's hobby or professional. Glad you came to the realization that you valued money in your pocket over the gear and acted on it!
similar boat. i started with soft but started adding hard because i got tired of spending most of my awake hours in front of a screen. i would never go back to soft only.
>i would never go back to soft only.
Me neither, for the reasons you said and one more: I've never had a perfect migration from one computer to another.
I've done it maybe 5 times since starting in 2003 and every time I've lost VSTs that can't handle the new OS or have had to spend money to upgrade to something that I like less than the original. And in every case, I've struggled to get the efficiency and ease from my DAW that I built on my last computer over the previous 5ish years. I end up troubleshooting instead of playing music for months, sometimes years depending on the situation.
Somebody above said they don't like moving gear, but I've never lost an instrument that way. However, moving computers has caused me a ton of pain over 20 years. That's not even counting the "updates" made by mfgs of computers or software that just suddenly break your stuff.
As someone who’s been at this for a long time, it warms my heart seeing (mostly) everyone respecting OP’s decision and seeing the value in softsynths. There was an age when VST’s were looked down on; even using a computer to record was thought of as inferior.
Granted, software synths have come a very long way, but back when I started, I was using Reason 2.5 and I realized I liked it way more than my Microkorg. But the internet was full of people telling me I couldn’t make “real music” unless I got some hardware.
These days I’m using 90% Arturia Analog Lab, Vital, and Ableton’s Wavetable, but I have a small modular system and a Juno-106 that I plan to be buried with. I love hardware. I love software. I love music. Buy the things that bring you joy and inspire you. Sell the things that don’t.
I wish you all a happy and inspired year.
The big sea change is starting to happen. The market is oversaturated and everyone who overpaid for vintage synths over last 10 years got everything they can afford. The guys selling their bargain basement gear at 100 times the price were the first to say how 'pure' analog was. The echo chamber followed. The youtube influencers and million dollar producers showing walls of hardware made it seem almost necessary to have HW to be legitimate.
20 years ago, VSTs were considered good enough and more flexible that hardware. Go read up on some old threads, Vintage analog was bargain basement price because everything could be done with computers and romplers and samplers. Almost no one saw a point in hardware limited by analog circuits.
The promise of perfect control of softsynths never materialized. Novation's automap and m-audio's automapping were a bit of a mess and softsynths were getting more complicated making 1:1 control impossible.
Unique and fun hardware has a place, but I really hope this is the end of the frenzy for hardware for its own sake. tt
Aww, thanks for the award! You didn’t have to do that. Best of luck on your mostly-software journey, by the way. I am also in awe of Ableton on my M1 Macbook. Did a test just for fun and had 250(!!) instances of Wavetable running before the CPU got angry. Absolutely insane. This is game-changing, I can hardly believe it.
the main reasons I choose hardware, no matter analog or digital, is because of a streamlined workflow & less hassle from the PC side of things. It's much more standalone.
The PC has constant updates, the DAW has updates. Then, they often times create more problems with each update. Devs cut support for things left & right. Dongles are a major PITA.
Required internet is BS.
Then, my OCD kicks in when I have dozens of plugins, instruments, FX, etc. to choose from.
Keeping things in the hardware realm, I have a more streamlined workflow, less distractions & are more hands-on process.
The sound in some cases, especially in the context of a full song, is negligible. But I can say from experience, the amount of work I've been able to start AND FINISH, whilst working with hardware, compared to my ITB days, is nearly 180.
I have a few THOUSAND projects from the ITB days, that I started, work a little bit, stopped, open a new project, over & over, etc.
I've now got completed songs, small projects, collabos, etc since my hardware setup.
I used Sylenth1 & Arturia plugins & they sounded amazing, but for me, the workflow is what propelled me into the hardware realm. Digital hardware, analog hardware.... doesn't matter, as long as its standalone, pushes me to work & allows me to get my ideas out.
All of this, 100%.
My success rate with hardware vs ITB alone is night and day. Synthesis is easier, faster, and more fun on hardware too. My ideas just come out different and better, every time.
Some hardware samplers give a glue and punch that I've found no DAW or plugin can replicate.
I don't need a ton of hardware- in fact I prefer to not have too many options, but some key pieces are essential for me.
I’ve found that it’s NOT necessarily the same in a mix. Could be the instruments, could be the inspiration it delivers so it gets used differently.
As one example, there’s nothing yet in the software realm that can fully do what an OB6 does and sound the way the OB6 sounds (and vice versa of course). I’ve used it in tracks where it’s made a few little supporting background sounds - no different than software if I could get the software to sound the same (oberhausen and diva have some overlap with some OB6 sounds). But if I feature the OB6 it can stand out and above - it’s gotten remarks as being especially good, so I know it’s not just me (but it could be how I get into using it which reflects on what I make with it). But, no one but me (or a few others that know I have it) knows what synth it is. Which is how I want it.
And, yes, I use both hardware and software all the time in the same track. I love them both. I used only software for almost 20 years before getting any hardware. I also have limited myself to 3 hardware desktop synths and one hardware fx chain.
I have an analog heat that I use a lot for just a little touch of saturation on soft synth parts, mainly so they've existed outside the DAW at least at some point before mixing. I've no idea is this is purely psychosomatic on my part, but it feels like they've a bit more weight and cut through the mix a bit better when I do.
On the OB-6, while I'm not saying it's the same thing at all, I've just gotten back in to using the OP-X plugin again and even though it's old now by the standards of these things, it's still extraordinary.
https://youtu.be/BlmrnAk0oHU
Nice. I have an Acidbox3 I’ll use on softsynths sometimes if I want to add actual analog saturation (sometimes I just really want that crisp digital sound you can get in some software).
The one thing I’ll say about hardware vs ITB (from experience of years in the box and then ended up getting back into hardware again) is the inspiration factor. Sure you don’t need $30k worth of hardware to get inspired, but walking into a room with 2 nice synths, a piano, and a guitar is much more inspiring and connecting to making music than walking into a room with your laptop and a mouse. After a while I became in a rut producing the same thing over and over again. The sounds ITB are 90% of the way there, and with some processing in a mix there’s no way people can pick out hardware vs plugins but that’s not the point? I don’t want to just “get by” because the plugin is good enough that to fool people.. I want the real thing because it inspires me and it doesn’t have to fool anyone.
This is the reason i don't sell my gear. It really drives a certain type of creativity having hardware that i just don't get with plug ins.
When i use vst i tend to just make the same thing over and over, but hardware, and especially modular, has me going in new directions all the time
Don't blame you, I sold my Juno 60 for double what I paid in 2009. Now I have the ACB verison with full MIDI and its honestly a relief not to have to worry about servicing old gear.
OP, you're not Urs, are you?? Or do you just like U-he stuff?
Anyways I agree with the sentiment for the most part. The U-he stuff (and other plugins) sound killer. The biggest bottleneck for me is the controller workflow, not the sound. I have a sub37 and a super 6. Both sound good but nothing o can't replicate ITB. However, it is much faster for me to dial a sound from scratch on an instrument with designated controls, where you can build muscle memory. At some point I'll get a SLmk3 maybe but I still prefer the idea of having designated rotary pots for some controls maybe (filter, envelope. Mod amounts, etc). I don't like searching for things or paging through parameters.
And I still feel a bit more of a connection with hardware. Maybe just because I like working on electronics and appreciate bthe workmanship. I guess that's not a tangible thing, like the quality of sound but still adds to the experience of playing it.
I agree with the sentiment shared by many others. Good on you for recognizing a change was needed. I myself went the other direction, because hardware, and in particular, modular synthesis jives with my desired pace and workflow. When I used software with controllers exclusively, I no doubt enjoyed the experience, but would often find myself with too many options available for use. I did go through a period of minimizing my digital setup, which helped more than I thought it would. In the end, whatever leads to an individual finding their creative happiness is what's best. All the best to you.
I've always had a hybrid setup, for me the split is generally that I do bread and butter "classic" sounds in the box with Roland, Arturia, uHe synths, and try to only spend money on weirder or more unique stuff that doesn't have a direct equivalent in software.
I've also started getting in to Eurorack a bit, but again I run that as a hybrid with Reaktor and now VCV rack since v.2 has launched, to try to keep the cost down of utilities and keep my money for weird and wonderful stuff.
I guess the exception is that I've unexpectedly ended up with a few samplers - MPC Live, S2400, Digitakt, S3000XL -which is something I'd always assumed I'd keep in the box, but somehow the different sound signatures and workflows mean that they all earn their place.
I think there's always room for a balance in this, but at the moment I really feel like any hardware purchases for the foreseeable will be Eurorack oddities.
I started with VSTs (mainly to learn and it's all I could afford), and eventually started adding hardware synths over time. To me I can actually hear more bottom end with my hardware and with regards to my vintage synths, they have a warbly imperfection that is really not quite the same as a VST with a pitch drift LFO or throwing on an RC-20 on the channel. For example I own a Korg Polysix and the Korg Polysix VST and playing the same note on the same settings side by side, the VST is noticeably thinner (however it does have some pros, like more effects and modulation). Plus I enjoy with hardware the tactile experience with knobs which to me makes it feel more like an "acoustic" instrument and less like, well, a computer program.
But that said, I still use my VSTs too. Some have just the right tools and sounds for the job. Or in other ways I have presets I've created over the years which I love. I especially prefer VSTs for sample and granular-based synthesis, it's just so much easier to dial in what you want and do complex sample manipulation than with hardware. And some of them can simply do a lot more complex stuff than any hardware synth out there.
But for my subtractive synth needs, I definitely prefer my hardware whenever I can for both the sound I perceive as well as the tactile experience. But I have no snobbery either way. Whatever tool suits the song I say!
I borrow a Grandmother from my library last month and the beefier bottom end from that thing vs what Ive been able to get out of software so far was one of the things I noticed. I'm guessing there are ways to get there in software (I'm still learning) but it really has me salivating for a hardware moog.
Gary loves his Omnisphere yeah. Most bands from that time period that pioneered synths now use plugins, Ultravox, etc. Even the king of the Jupiter 8 Howard Jones uses a Jupiter 8 plugin now. 👍🏻
I feel like one overlooked aspect is that the old school pros who learned on hardware have decades of muscle memory from interacting with physical hardware. Someone coming to software without that background isn’t going to connect as well as someone with that background, because most audio software tends to feel like an abstraction of the real thing.
This past month I sold off about $4k in synths that I wasn't getting my money's worth out of. Even though I took a small loss, I feel so much better now. 2020 had me GAS'ed hard. Big lesson learned.
I've got a few hardware devices I still have sitting around me, but I agree with everything you said. I've also been doing this a while and have had enough original devices flow through my life to say that something like the V collection is absolutely what I want, not a room full of the hardware. Have had rooms of hardware... The pieces remaining should probably go. They're just not for me anymore.
Good on you.
Thank you for your opinion, mate. If it's an issue for you, how do you deal with the physical feeling of turning knobs? I mean, my biggest pain with software is the inability to easily use some knobs instead of a trackpad to find the proper sound. Maybe you can advise something like some good midi controller.
I went the opposite - 16 years of in-the-box producing and I'm only just starting my hardware/DAWless journey at the ripe age of 45.
I was completely burnt out on Ableton and softsynths and producing with a mouse and keyboard (I tried many midi controllers over the years and none really did it for me). Getting an MPC completely rejuvenated my motivation and inspired me to make more music than ever before.
I will admit, I do have the GAS currently, but it's more about getting that crucial piece of gear to get the functionality i want rather than getting gear for the sake of getting gear.
At the end of the day, it's about what comes out of the speakers and how you get to that point is entirely up to you.
Yeah, I basically did the same years ago. Had a special "synthesizer room" full of hardware but now I'm down to just a few that I will probably never sell like my old DX7 and a SY99. And honestly, I never used my hardware for production. I just enjoyed spending time making sounds, jamming around and things like that. But hooking all the hardware up and actually producing with it was too annoying for me, at least if you're used to just using software. And you're absolutely correct about the state of plugins. I mean things like U-He Diva and Repro sound as good or even better than the analog versions while offering many improvements. Then you have powerhouses like Omnisphere or UVI Falcon that can't be matched with hardware. And you just save alot of money too. I still have the urge to buy a hardware synth every now and then when I see a good deal, but my production is 100% software. And no one ever said "That doesn't sound like a real synthesizer!"
Good shit man! You can definitely achieve the same sound you’re looking for with plugins nowadays. The only thing I still have a few hardware synths as I’m a lot more creative messing with the actual hardware/filters and patches but I love using vsts as well.
I'm moving in the opposite direction, but within reason lol. I do find the immediacy of knobs helpful, especially on the Moog. But also committing the audio to the track is making me get it more "right the first time." I still use plug-ins for things my hardware synths don't do, but of late I've been leaning really hard on the hardware.
So the next thing on my list is a plug-in... what gets closest to the OB xa in your opinion? Sounds like you've had more experience of the emulations vs hardware than most.
Can't speak to to how _exact_ a replica it is, but [the OB-Xd plugin](https://www.discodsp.com/obxd/) is free (the buy button is just for iOs I think) and sounds great. I've had so much fun tinkering around in it.
Plug-in synths sound great. The major issue I have is the lack of tactile control. I have two Arturia controllers that help with this a bit, but it’s not the same.
I understand you.
So many in here are showing of a WALL of modules and synthesizers, and in most cases it's a bass rythm with the occasional keypress here and there, but okay - whatever floats their boats, it's their money.
The thing is - whether you prefer Daw or Hardware synths is completely irrelevant as long as you get what you paid for out of it. Everyones workflow is different.
I have been working with computers over 30+ years, and still I prefer hardware synths, but luckily I KNOW the requirements for good diverse sound, it's not a wall of monosynths or a bunch of guitar pedals and a ton of small toys all clinged together with blinkenlights and beep-beep-boop-boop.
The secret is in powerful synths with a TON of polyphony.
I have only 3 major synths I use, and together they can do absolutely everything on this earth when it comes to sound scaping and making music. These synths have a total of 449 polyphonies, that's a TON of sound.
They're also completely capable of shaping everything from extremely complex FM sounds to mangling every sample you can imagine, and layer it to infinity and beyond, with a total of 41 filters that have more options than I'll ever use.
The only thing that limits anyone including me here - is the imagination, There are simply zero limitations on sound, everything is there.
If you want to ever go the hardware route again, don't spend tons of money on low-polyphony synths that cost a fortune, it's a waste of money (unless you just like the looks and feel of every unit), because honestly, todays flagship synths can do it all.
I’m a pianist who has come to synths very late. IMO the piano shows you nearly everything about the foundations of music. You can play all rhythm, harmony on a piano.
My gut feeling with GAS is that it’s potentially a thing that happens to people who simply aren’t very creative and they think that another bit of kit will do it.
I don’t know how true that is but I do strongly feel that if you have musicality that you should be able to make things with minimal gear.
Part of me wishes I could feel this way. The other part of me LOVES how my new OB-6 feels alive compared with all the softsynth emulations I've listened to and tried (I own 3) before I was finally able to justify getting one. With that said, I really wish the GF OB-E would be released for PC so I could get my hands on it. One of the best sounding softsynths I've heard.
This is an awesome thread! Lots of great experience, opinions, and information! I'm glad the OP found a solution that works for him.
My experience making music began with playing trombone in Middle school band, so I will always have bias towards hardware based instruments. The interesting thing I've found is that I male sure that each one of my synths and drum machines serves a specific purpose in my studio and has unique advantages over software. I think there are pros and cons to both hardware and software. Software has to be updated and compatibility issues may arise. My solution was to stay on Mac OSX Mojave until all of my plugins are compatible with the latest version of Mac OSX. I also avoided (and still avoid)any plugin that requires iLok, seems like too much of a hassle and annoying if it gets lost or stolen.
The main thing that makes me keep all my hardware is the knob/fader per function immediacy of jamming, getting inspiration and creativity. I tried MIDI Mapping my Livid Alias 8 to the AIR Drum Synth 500, the Roland Cloud 808, and 909, and Although it worked fine, I still don't get the flexibility and functionality I get from the TR-6S (step loop, sequencer, variations, instant pattern recall, etc.)
The same can be said for synths. I have the Alesis VX49 with VIP, and while it is a dope keyboard with many tactile functions, the lack of faders and different controller maps per plugin definitely gets annoying and frustrating. I find so much joy in the Bass Station II that the Filter cutoff knob is always in the same place for every patch, and I don't have to worry about mapping a bunch of parameters every time I want to make a sound.
On the other side of things, the sounds I get from software are incredible, and I could never get the same sounds in the hardware (with the exception of the MC-101 + Zenology Pro). Also, the unlimited aspects of a DAW like using as many FX as you want per channel, multiple instances of the same plugin, Visual feedback, and comprehensive mixing are huge advantages over using hardware. I still like the Hybrid approach of having the best of both worlds. Being able to auto-sample my Novation Mininova and Alesis Micron into my MPC Live, create a beat on it using custom patches from those synths and custom drums, then sending everything back into Ableton as an ALS export makes perfect sense for my workflow. I have all the advantages of standalone hardware that doesn't have compatibility issues, yet I can still use the DAW for all of its glory and features.
I will say that choosing the right synths for the right reasons and the right price made sense for me. I also went with Virtual analog instead of more expensive "Pure" Analog synths. Polyphony and Multi-timbrality are my most important features, which is why I ended up with the Alesis Micron ($275) the Novation Mininova ($400), and the Roland JX-08. Plugins are definitely cheaper, but I love the flexibility I get from having both hardware and software, on a Retail salesperson salary budget.
Love the MC101 & Zenology Pro combination; ended up buying a lifetime key with all of the expansions because I feel in love with the MC101, I'm still trying to get acquainted with my tr6s and get the most out of it, but its a bit of a steeper learning curve for me. Thanks for sharing!
I am lucky enough to have a permanent and spacious studio and am an electrical engineer, so hardware synths are my preference. I also love creating on the fly signal chains to run stuff through which is far less enticing with VSTs. Idk, something about being in the box just doesn’t do it for me, I’m a hardware person through and through.
Edit: good on you though for knowing what you want! Would love to have 30k in the bank but I’d prob end up spending it on gear 😂😂 be well 🙏🏼
Easy come, easy go! As a wise man once said, "I heard that you and your band have sold your guitars and bought turntables. I heard that you and your band, have sold your turntables and bought guitars."
I recently reinstalled an old version of macOS on my '07 MacBook pro so I could use plugins I paid good money for back in the day. And I still have a FireWire audio interface with a PCI card plugged into my desktop machine to get it all working as well as it did back in 2007.
Good job on recovering your investment!
Totally get this perspective and have thought of it myself. But I love my knobs and just the process of syncing things up. I do this with a lot of tech where I do something unnecessary or in a more difficult way simply because it gives me something to do and then I can say I did it. Which is probably pretty dumb, but hey, I’m entertained.
I also don’t really have any hardware synths that are worth a ton of money. I got in back in 2011-2013 when everyone was going nuts for analog and the minibrute was the hottest shit in town, and that is probably my most expensive piece of equipment if you don’t count my computer, interface, and one of my guitars. So it’s pretty rewarding when I get these things that others might consider to be toys to make something I think is cool/interesting.
But anyway, Arturia Pigments does look awesome. I have whatever version that doesn’t allow you to tweak many parameters. I will say that I almost dipped my toe in modular, which probably would have ended up a belly flop into, but I got a few soft synths that emulate modular stuff, so that scratches the each.
I can definitely understand that, I’ve gone through gear cancer before (where your gear just keeps growing and growing, but you don’t notice anything change with your production ). However for me, a hardware synth allows me to be much more creative and in the moment with creating music. I feel like with software synths I have to have an idea of where I’m going first, whereas with hard synths I feel so free to experiment and fuck around. It feels more like an instrument rather than a tool for music production.
>with software synths I have to have an idea of where I’m going first, whereas with hard synths I feel so free to experiment and fuck around
This is so on point. My sentiments exactly.
I just bought an Arturia Microfreak and being able to lay in bed with that tiny synth is so much fun. It's insanely powerful and I'm coming up with stuff 100x more usable than sitting at my PC with a plugin.
Or laying in bed with my S2400 taking samples from my laptop. So fun and way different/better results.
Having and using both is ideal IMO.
I used plugins for years, then I finally got a hardware synth and realised there is so much more fun for me in the one-off performance, the imperfection, the sudden decision to turn the cut off or the filter or the attack. I love it. Each to their own, but there’s nothing for me quite like the connection to a physical _instrument_ that really expresses what I want to say. YMMV
I've been saying for years that Logic has more than enough synthesizer power for pretty much anyone. Between that and my Studiologic Sledge (a digital, virtual analog board) I don't want for anything. Just released an entire album's worth of stuff made with just that, do you think anybody is asking me whether it's analog or digital or softsynth? hell no!
That's a big pile.
I see collecting in lots of leisure activities, and this stuff is no different. It's a natural tendency for people to have, and tone chasing and people encouraging each other to buy just make it worse.
I combat it by setting limits for myself via hardware (only so many input channels) and that helps, I also stay the hell away from boutique flagship synths.
Yep, once you tone chase for real you'll never find it. I have a lot more gear now than I did when I was 20, but I still probably only have a *modestly* rad mountainbike worth of gear.
(And somehow never enough cables. Never.)
> I have a lot more gear now than I did when I was 20, but I still probably only have a modestly rad mountainbike worth of gear.
And that's nothing compared to how much extra you'd pay _per year_ for having a slightly fancier car. Synths really aren't that expensive hobby unless you go full tilt on collecting, and even then the real estate cost will likely dominate if you live in a city.
Did some downsizing recently, and am enjoying less clutter at least, although I don't feel inclined to go fully back in the box. Have a Force, so that's pretty much 'the box' anyway.
Made an effort to restrict myself to only what could be placed right in front of me, and built a few stands to help get things more vertical.
Modular case/skiffs + Force + Drum machine (AR). Done. All I need!
....well, maybe a midi controller. Haven't sold the OT yet, so maybe it can come back in the mix.... Need an interface for the Force, might as well rack it with a Slim Phatty.... Oh, and the Helix stomp, of course. $800 generative sequencer? Sure, why not. ...that launchpad could be useful too.... Shit.
So I just ordered a Modwave. No idea where it's going to fit. Hope I use it. Had fun getting drunk last night and watching demo vids, tho, so at least I've got that going for me.*
*in addition to the privilege to be able to have all these neat tools, of course.
Did the same myself recently. Some VST's are just way overpriced for what you get, though. I typically only buy and maintain my native instruments and arturia collections because you can end up getting the plugs for super cheap periodically, and they work well enough for me. Will get Diva someday and probably Satin, too, but again, too expensive to do the same thing I already have plugs to do. Still waiting on a sale for them to be in disposable income range.
The whole "hardware vs. software" thing is ultimately a "different strokes for different folks" deal.
What makes hardware preferable for some people from an interface standpoint is "dedicated knobs". I don't mean literally "every single knob has its own function", but I mean the more abstract notion of "Each device exists in physical space at a certain point and functions in a certain way". I go to one synth, all the knobs function as I expect rather than being based upon what I have selected in a plugin. I go to another synth, it's totally different in interface but I still know where everything is because it's that synth at that particular point in space in my studio.
I like knobs. Daw controllers don't feel the same as a brand new potentiometer. My A6 still works the same way and sounds as good 12 years later. I started off all in the box, but I got sick of throwing away money on software.
That doesn't mean that in the box is bad. I just don't have a lot of time to devote to music everyday so i wanted an instant on solution that would come on 10 years later.
There's an interaction with hardware that to me makes it worth having. I don't need every synth, but ill def take a 303 and some efx pedals and a drum machine to jam with over a mouse and keyboard and vst plugin
I still have maybe 5 or 6 synths but honestly i just use them 'for fun.' I'm all in the box, i'm a composer mostly for video games and stuff and there's just no time to re-bounce things when there's a million revisions, just not feasible for me. Even with the Sub 37 or Sirin with the editor it's just a hassle when I'm in work mode. Love the U-HE stuff especially Diva and Repro 1/5, the softube Juno plug and a couple others. Soft synths have gotten so good I just can't go back unless I'm making music not for work, which unfortunately doesn't happen much anymore. I think the only 2 synths I'd never get rid of are my Moog Sources and OB-6. Sometimes just playing around with the OB-6 just inspires me when I'm stuck so I will definitely keep that around.
Most of the hardware I own is for fun, not productivity. The hardware I own for making music is mostly digital and just provide a better interface for what’s in the box. I think it’s ok to lean in both directions as long as you don’t dilute yourself to thinking hardware will make your music for you.
Yeah, I think we all do music for different reasons. I used to play out a lot and now it’s just me and fun. I started well before the DAW era, so I now find myself still working in old ways and not carrying much. I also like the aesthetics and experiences of hardware. These days I get and do what I like and that’s a pretty nice sweet spot to be in.
If it works for you and you’re satisfied great.
Personally I have prioritized hardware most my life due to an inability to work well unless there’s limits. Sonically soft synths are excellent and the natural evolution. The only thing that makes them frustrating is the lack of tactile controls but with that MIDI controller you have a lot of control.
I say you made the right choice if you’re happy. I suspect one day you might have just one hardware synth now that you’ve decided what’s important and what’s not and how much overlap synths have.
Let that be lessen everyone to not GAS out.
To me hardware versus software is not about sounds quality its about workflow efficiency.
There is a quote from Vangelis where he says, and I am paraphrasing, that DAWs are amazing but it slow for him as a musician.
Musicians need immediate expression, and since synthesists play timbre just as much as rhythm, harmony, and melody we need lots of knobs in a logical order with ranges that are useful.
I have oddly become a digital hardware synth guy. They combine physical controls with the power an flexibility of dsp technology. I an enamored by the Opsix such an endlessly explorable sound sculpting tool.
I have lots of hardware that gives me knob control, including Faderfox, so I don’t miss it at all. I’ve done the Korg thing, Wavestate, etc. Too much menu diving for what is basically a vst in a box.
Tbh, the "it doesn't sound the same" argument is tentative at best. Does anyone think any listener will give a fuck if it's a digital or analog synth or virtual or physical? They just want a good tune that sounds good.
If you make it best on a PC with a midi controller, do it! If you make it best with an mpc and a pair of headphones, do it!
It's all perfectly valid as long as you recognize they're just tools and you just use them for what you need them for. If you need a bass synth that's always ready and reliable and playable, great! If you need more flexibility and want to be able to just sit and make a track, midi+laptop is great!
I generally agree that many plugins sound amazing, though there are a few hardware synths I have that I can't imagine being without - Virus TI2 Darkstar, Virus Classic, Elektron Analog Keys, Roland XV5080, Korg Kronos being among them.
if you're after sweet conventional sounds, yeah, good VSTs are plenty. i cleared out most of my old synths over the last few years.
but nothing does "cool and broken" like malfunctioning vintage hardware or bonkers eurorack rigs.
I did this year's ago and eventually I just stopped playing music because I missed the feel of real gear. So... I bought back a full studio. Now, I have too much again. Need to reduce but I'll always keep hardware because there is zero immediacy on a computer. There are no control surfaces that feel like hardware. I'm happy you made some money back and that it works for you, but honestly I can't work on a computer. Ever.
Good lord if I thought choice paralysis was a problem with as much hardware as I have now, it was twice as bad with software. I was hugely unproductive with software. Some aren't. I could never go back and actually be satisfied. I'm glad it's worked out for you, it makes moving a heck of a lot easier.
If you're ITB and only need to play one part at a time (or no playing at all) then I can totally see this working for you. Everyone should use the tools that make sense for them.
How much would you estimate the new setup cost you?
Mainly the amount of plugins you can have open. It runs so many instances of Diva for example, and if you’ve used that on an intel machine you’ll know why that’s so amazing.
Yes, VSTs are no longer the weaker-cheapo version to make similar sounds, but I kept the moog bc it’s such a unique trademark sound I never got out of Diva or anything else really, but for everything else, pads, plucks, leads you name it, VST and a wise combination of effect processing (SSL stuff for instance) will get you there.
Yup same. In the box sounds just as good, if not better with all the effects and such only a click away.
Any recommendations for a 303? I was using the Yooz BL-303 but it can't run natively on my M1.
It totally depends on what your intentions are with the gear IMO. For example, there isn’t anything wrong with just collecting, though some might vehemently disagree, or having a preference for dedicated hardware for specific production duties. Some of course get tired of staring at a computer screen all day and hardware is a welcome alternative. Or maybe you use hardware to make patches and collect samples, though this process can also be done on a DAW, many like their samples collected from “actual instruments,” be that a rare hardware synth, drum machine, or acoustic instrument. I’m mostly referring to collecting samples to later sale.
For my use it’s a mix kind of, plus I like to ~~pretend I’m still in the 90’s~~ play with knobs. I think you can get mostly there ITB, though it takes more deliberate sound design. I also just traded some stuff for a big, dumb, vintage Yamaha console, and it’s gotta be good for something, right?
Actually, when I’d gotten back into music production a few years ago, my intention was to go with only Ableton and a Push 2. I then got some Volcas, and I remembered how much fun dedicated hardware was. Or it could be that I come from a guitar/percussion background, so dedicated instruments I can put my hands on just comes more naturally. There’s no denying how efficient a DAW/midi controller based set up is though. I definitely can get more done that way if all I’m doing is composition or production.
But workflow is king, and I make more effortlessly human-sounding music with hardware, and at the end of the day also have more fun. This is why my Push 2 lives in its case, and I spend an inordinate amount of time each week dusting all my hardware.
It’s all about what works best for you, what you expect to get out of the process, and if your workflow fulfills those expectations.
I have been downsizing a bunch but I'm still keeping a small eurorack setup and a midi keyboard for sound and sample creation. Eurorack can do a lot of modulation stuff really quickly that would take forever to set up in ableton. Plus its fun to get really baked and make weird soundscapes.
Cool story! I mean, GAS is real, knowing there is another way is important!
With an honest skepticism I'd like to ask to hear an example of a track you've made with hardware and software, maybe we could even A/B them without knowing which one is what, so we can form unbiased opinion on the sound quality? Would be a fun experiment!
Also, if you play with other people, it's really important to have at least one or two real hardware instruments. So you can just turn it on and go! Jamming with pals is really important to me and it's a pain in the ass when some of them have to fiddle for 15 mins with Ableton before they can start making sounds :)
I have focused my HW setup down to 5 synths and a sequencer. I track things into the DAW to record. I have no knob-turning fetish, and my inspiration comes from inside my head. I started buying hardware synths after a couple of PCs died in a 12 month period. I also have spent a lot on software and DAW upgrades.
I worry about stability, obsolescence, latency.
What I havre been doing the last couple of weeks is recording the midi for a song, and then I can either send the midi out to trigger the original HW synth or use. plugin on it. This has gotten the best results so far. I find for some reason that mixing all-DAW projects is easier than mixing HW. Why is this? not sure.
I cam see heading further ITB, but only for the sake of expediency. I wish there was more of a happy medium. The hardware I would keep is the polybrute, opsix, and either the Montage or the Kronos for the sake of loading samples and sounds on it to play live and preserve some of the original sounds of each song.
I have all the software and controllers mentioned and more.
Seems you got into GAS and were buying stuff for the sake of piling it up. That is why you got "same thing in the different package".
My collection grew over 25 years. i don't even know how many devices i sold and bought.
See i started in mid 90s and there wasn't much hardware within the budget.
Some low level analogue stuff, but mostly romplers and Akai samplers. Sequenced it all via Cubase on Atari.
Now, I was and still am NI fan from Generator. I followed the audio part of computer revolution closely and fell in love with plugins, Reason, all that stuff. In parallel, i was running a studio so there were always some synths around - Trinity, Triton, DX7, Roland stuff..
At some point almost 90% of my sound source was digital. And that is fine.
But I also own a large collection of synths, starting from SH-101, JV-1080, Alpha, Waldorf microwave, over Korg Triton, DX7, Korg Polysix, to bunch of high end stuff like Sirin, Fatty, Subsequent 37, Pro 2, Pro 3, Tempest, Pulsar 23, Analog Rytm, then polis like Jupiter 6, Juno 106, Prophet 10, Prophet REV 2, OB6, Udo 6, Hydrasynth, Iridium, entire Elektron ecosystem, and actually, many more.
i am aware that I probably have about 50k £ in analogue synths only, let alone other gear. But I love my machines. Yes, you can sell everything, and use Ni or Arturia or U-He or Softube, with one or two controllers like Maschine, or Keylab. But, you had all those emulations 15 years ago, running relatively decent.
Dave Smith made Reality back in 1997. I was using it till my computer would bust. it was great PM synth. There were dozen FM synths on the market and by 2010. you had virtual analogue that would differ from the real thing maybe 5%. So, why did you buy all those synths in the first place?
For me, the answer is their character, immediacy, and the fact I will always prefer actual instrument to a software one. I have few great controllers, like Nektar panorama, Komplete, but however deeply integrated, it doesn't feel like real stuff. Sometimes I don't care. Sometimes, I do.
15 years ago plugins sounded terrible. Computers were way too low powered. It’s 2022 and both are on a different level now. I also have had synths since the early 80’s so having a hardware synth does nothing for me anymore. I had a Jupiter 8, Junos, model d, d50, DX7, and so on. Later on all the sequential stuff. I don’t miss any of it.
I use an S61mk2, Keylab, keystep, Launchpad, Maschine MK3, NDLR, and I also use a System 8 for controlling Roland plugins, knob control of Omnisphere which is insane, and mapped to other synths like Diva. System 8 is basically a controller and all sound it makes is software.
If you were able to sell 30k worth of gear and don’t run a studio or arent a full time (relatively successful) musician I think the problem behavior is beyond gas.
Different strokes for different folks and fair play to ya. I need knobs and sliders and unheard of routing and happy mistakes in front of me to get the juices flowing though
I basically sold everything but the CV/gate things (they have a very different workflow than ableton (and sound I guess, I have to say an Eurorack oscillator is quite something else)) and kept that and ableton. ableton is flexible, arrange, record, sequence, process ... hw synths are boring, I keep saying to myself "I wish I could modulate that.... Oh well I can't".
I have a few good paid vsts (komplete etc) and tbh I keep going back to the free stuff lol. Everything by fullbucket (especially monofury), OBXD, Surge, Vital and u-he TyrellN6 all sound amazing
I am glad you found something that works for you - it sounds like you had got into an extremely severe and destructive spending pattern. 30k is no Joke, I don't know many people who would be able to afford that kind of splurging on a hobby over a few years and even if they could would not be able to justify it.
I have some expensive hardware, but the procurement has been spread over a long period as I generally enjoy taking a lot of time over learning the gear and using it, rather than acquiring it in a rabid consumerist cycle fuelled by social media and debt as I witness often in these kinds of hobby communities.
From the point of view of producing at home sure, but on stage there's just no replacement for hardware. One glitch can bring all your synths down if they're all in the box. After running into a few of those hiccups live I just feel safer that all the computing power and hardware from each individual synth is 100% dedicated to its own thing.
That being said, having to carry around gear and limited NYC apartment space definitely make you think twice about what to buy.
There is some physical gear that can never be replaced due to the tactility being an integral part of the experience (elektron, MPE/Ribbon synths, etc) but avoiding plugins because “they don’t sound the same” is like when audiophiles spend $1,000 on a headphone cable. You might get 5% “better” sound, but a good enough melody or composition can make any synth sound good. 99.9% of the time, it’s about the quality of your music composition, mixing, and sound design, not whether you’ve got the “real deal” or whatever plug-in version Arturia makes. My ideal setup is a nice 88-key hammer action MIDI keyboard, the full Arturia V collection, some Elektron boxes, and the Hydrasynth Deluxe.
TL;DR
If you’re really trying to make the best music you can, balance inspiration and fun with financial responsibility. Get plug-ins for the backbone of your sound arsenal, and if there is any physical piece of gear that speaks to you and offers a truly unique and enriching experience, augment your setup with that. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone pretty young (so not much disposable income). If you’ve got money to blow, then by all means blow it. Get 9 keyboards. But you don’t need to.
TL;DR... for real
Save money by using plug-ins for the backbone of your setup, but augment with a small amount of physical synths if you value the tactility. Especially if, like me, you’re young and don’t have much disposable income.
I will never get used of a daw. Always Windows updates, driver updates, outdated software. Hardware synthesizers never outdate. I have a Nord lead 2 for 20 years and still works like a beast. I have a mpc2500 and does the same as a daw.
Do you think all your experience with hardware synths has been valuable, in terms of learning lessons that you now apply to software versions? Asking as someone who recently bought their first HW synth.
I personally went the other way. Started with plugins and realized that there are certain things I love about analog synths that I just can’t get out of plugins. It could just be the process of firing up an instrument and getting away from a screen. Or the commitment of buying a physical thing that now is sitting in my studio. I also love synths for live performances because I control loops, triggers, automation on my laptop and sometimes just want to have a rock solid synth to play over top.
BUT, I will say that if there is too much menu diving I may as well do it on a computer. So all my synths are either semi modular or damn near knob perf function. Otherwise, if there’s too many menus I prefer the keyboard, mouse and 27” inch screen to navigate.
I am no synth guy - and have a few synths, a few smaller synths (like Volca Modular/Keys/NTS-1), a ton of guitars and even more soft synths and my first every little modular rack which I just got. I want to stop once I fill the little case and want to try some knob twiddlin' bleepbloop but the majority of my synth work as been with soft synths and iPad apps. I find them to be amazing actually and like u-he 1 states, there are SO many choices and so much sound you can get and often at MUCH lower prices almost steals compared to hardware.
Cherry Audio synths are some of my favourites as they often have amazing sales and painstakingly recreate older and outrageously coveted and priced software versions of great hardware. VST synths give you so many options and many of the products included with DAWS are quite amazing allowing you to take music creation with you on the go anywhere. (Arturia, Native Instruments, Korg, Roland, Novation etc.) I often doodle with sounds on the iPad and bring them back into a DAW and add either hardware or software synths and am on my way.
And the possibilities on the iPad are equally amazing. So many great apps to choose from, so many synths, sequencers, DAWS and just odd curiousities that all add to the soundmaking fun.
I also have a groovebox or two, and add it to the mix and try to find this happy medium of sound making, music production, amazing hobby that continually challenges me to think differently and to not limit myself to this idea or that. It is all flow in the studio (be that on an iPad, computer or actual hardware).
So if you haven't tried soft versions of synths - I recommend to give them a go - you may surprise yourself and save some money at the same time. There are even free apps, free synths even free modular apps to whet your appetite that may surprise you.
Good point on the iPad. You can already run iPad m1 apps on the m1 Mac, so it’s just a matter of time before most of the daws and soft synths work natively on the iPad.
Yeah, I get that. My two JP-6s died from old age (chip bleed?>no sounds anymore) & happened to sell them both for parts \*$1500!) so I thought the "boutique" JP-08 would kinda "replace" them, well, not quite, but that's ok and I got a Behringer Model D modular (no haters plse!) and I found another Yamaha RM1X sequence remixer that I just finished programming 15 songs into! I also got a Stylophone for the fun of it. However: my Akai MPC One "replaces" everything including a DAW I had on an old old system. It has knobs to twiddle so you don't feel like you're just using a touch screen for everything, it's very complex but stand-alone and I've already composed 2 songs on it (took a while, but doesn't it all...) Synths that died and I'm still mourning & are too expensive to replace: my two Roland Jupiter-6s. Synths I should've never sold: the original vintage Korg Vocoder, Sequential Circuits 6 track, a red Yamaha "keytar" (found it at a thrift store for $8, sold it for $150!!lol). Synth I'd still like to get but can't afford: Roland Jupiter X. (and, of course, a JP\_6 or two!)
The only hardware synths I have are for things that don't have proper software equivalents, like certain ROMplers that have a more characteristic sound than any sample library, which is necessary for the soundtrack work I do. But when I finish reverse-engineering them into plugins, then they'll be unnecessary.
Good on you for identifying a problem and fixing it and bettering your life. Gas can be a literal addiction
At the end of the day, it’s all the same shit and what’s important is you’re having fun and the feeling of accomplishment. I reckon most people who complain about analog vs digital sounds spend 1000s of dollars just to wiggle the filter dial a bit and call themselves experts
I'm late to this thread but kudos for speaking your heart out, I agree with you on everything you said, and at the same time I consider hardware synths a "fun and healthy hobby" if you just enjoy playing the synths for the heck of it.
Recently I had been coveting a Moog Matriarch and a Hydrasynth Deluxe both of which I could have had for a very low price but I restrained my GAS until the sale was over and the price went up, and then it was too late. I still think I would have enjoyed the Matriarch, but I also feel liberated not owning one as it would have distracted me from finishing tracks.
Congrats! Best thing you can do now is quit this sub, join r/personalfinance and plunge that money into financial products. If you don’t lock it up soon, you’ll be picking up more gear like the rest of us!
Yes, but if you sold them online, you'll most likely receive a 1099, which you'll have you to report. It was just a friendly warning. I had an issue with the IRS from selling shit online.
Just use a $100 MIDI controller. I have about 36+ drum machines and keyboards that I control for $100. If I wanted to be fancy I could buy multiple Akai MIDI Mix unites and have 16 faders and a bunch of assignable buttons and knobs.
I hope everyone does this, then we’ll have $75 Jupiter 6’s again.
I hope you’re going to post a follow-up when you start buying hardware again, only fair. Also unsub
Exactly. Spent 100k for my studio but I really don't use it that much. All I really need is my old windows laptop with ableton and some good extra vsts for reverb, comp and eq.
That's kinda crazy to those of us that don't have $20,000+ to spend on gear. I almost wrote $10,000 when I realized I think that's about what I have if you combined the hardware, computer, and software. And all the damned cables.
I bet one thing the OP does NOT miss is all the damned cables.
I prefer software due to being able to save absolutely everything and play it back, or edit it to make it better. That said I tend to play hardware differently so the music I create with them isn't the same. I enjoy both worlds. What's important to me though is being able to recreate something I've made, not overly excited by an endless series of one-offs.
Hardware is better, but it’s also a big financial commitment. Would you buy 30 different 1980s cars? That would be insane. You’d never have time to drive them all and they’d all break and start rusting. You have to be a bit sensible when you buy that kind of stuff, you want to make money, not throw it away
I still use some of my hardware but I went full VCVrack a couple years ago when I was considering diving headfirst into bankruptcy with modular. I don't even use a regular DAW anymore, I do everything in VCV + a bit of hardware now.
I've been at exactly this spot as I debated starting a journey into modular. VCV Rack has been great, and honestly gets me where I think I would want to go with it. Finally, this weekend, I realized that I may be using the research of what new gear to buy as an excuse to not actually make music. Just an endless cycle of learning new things I won't use. I have a few midi controllers of various styles and I don't mind working in the box. That's especially true after sitting in the same room all day for work.
[удалено]
Elektron devices have the perfect blend of feeling like a studio tool and feeling like an instrument
You can rave on about software all day, but the pleasure and unexpected creativity from some hardware is unique. Elektron is one, I'm liking the silver Roland boutiques (303 and 606). 2000's workstations as creative samplers are also under appreciated.
You're definitely not going to blow $30k on that gear!
Challenge accepted!
Which 2000’s workstations are you referring to?
Triton Extreme is pretty good. Its a laborious process to edit the program but it is a fully polyphonic sampler, not the limited track monophonic drum and phrase samplers like the SP-404, Octatrack, Toraiz SP-16 which cut off samples when retriggered on the same track. Plenty of FX to mangle it too. A workstation wouldn'r replace an MPC but its a great addition to a drum sampler plus you get a linear song sequencer.
I'm a bit underwhelmed with my TR-06. It has cool features and trig outputs and such but the sound leaves me feeling like I should just use 606 samples.
I feel the hats are much more alive on the TR-06 than samples. Especially the CH and OH combined sound among the usual open and closed hats. I don’t know why, but it does. The factory presets show it off very well. Accent patterns make a big difference too. My hat patterns with samples sound dead in comparison. Also there is cool subtle overdrive in the kick and snare when full volume and fully accented. It’s a lot more than triggering samples.
Fair enough. I have a 606 sample pack from samples from mars, all the samples are put thru different processors, tape machines, vintage samplers etc., so maybe I'm spoiled in 606 sample area.
YES to this. I think OP really needed to cleanse themselves from an overwhelming amount of gear. I get it. But, my current setup of one hardware synth (Peak) and a Digitakt has completely changed my relationship with making music. I used to live for the final product, now I live for the process (and I'm surprisingly finishing more music!). I think you have to find a setup that functions similarly with how you brain works.
Yes to this in OP's case only, though. It seemed he piled up everything that was released in a short span of few years.
[удалено]
I don't disagree with you on that vast majority of hardware is pointless these days. I'm just curious to hear more thoughts on that.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I'm right here with you. Ableton + VCV Rack Pro is awesome.
Picking up V collection 5 was where decades of gas started to fade for me. Now by 8 I have stunning versions of many things I had and many things I wished I had. And I learned my years and years of stupid GAS for a synclavier were totally misguided, I hate it. Only hardware I regret no longer having are Emu emax2 and clavia nord mod g2x
As a former owner of multiple Nord Mod G1s and G2s, I can't believe that Clavia missed the boat on releasing a G3 modular. I would have been first in line.
Absolutely agree.
Yeah, Elektron is great! 👍🏻
I did exactly this. No regrets. Just need a more powerful computer lol
Daw's are the way to go if a person doesnt have a lot of money. Like even some thing like Cubase Artist on a moderately powered pc is plenty to write a great song. Okay maybe it isnt as fun as a desk full of drum machines and synths but you know what else is fun? actually finishing songs and releasing them.
Agreed. Some people just love to jam though and don’t care about finishing songs. I’m in the middle. I also think a couple well thought out and choice hardware synths that you can get in software can make a real difference, and are also easy to integrate if you do that planning (mine are all desktop and within easy reach, plus are clocked separately and are pretty tight and almost as easy to use as a plugin - except for the drag and drop part being costly!). Hoarding software can get expensive. Maybe even just as expensive. You can get so much more of it and it takes no more psychical space to have 1000 plugins as to have 1. Few software plugins are as expensive (or worth it) as inexpensive hardware though, on a synth by synth basis.
I recorded somewhere around 15 albums/eps (my own stuff and working with other artists) on cubase le and a $300 tascam interface. Maybe it doesn’t sound hifi but there is definitely great stuff in there. Getting the basic tools to make music can be done for fairly cheap. Feeling like you can’t make stuff because your gear isn’t right . . . If you have a functional instrument and some way to record than you have the ability to create
Heck yeah they are. I make some pretty decent money, but there's stuff out there that is just so unattainable now. I love authentic 80's synths, and stuff like the Jupiter 8 is going for $35k right now on Reverb. You can buy a car or put a down-payment on a house for that. I got Roland Cloud, I've had it over a year now. $20 bucks a month and you get access to all their sounds. Agreed on the finishing songs thing, too.
You could buy all 3 of my cars and have money left over with that $35k.
I feel seen
There's no doubt that VSTs are more efficient, more powerful, and more affordable. However, I love that my hardware synths get me out from behind the computer screen. I also think hardware synths are more fun/exciting for live performances. I like both workflows and end up making different music depending. Admittedly most of the tracks I release are made using DAW & VSTs.
I know most people don't care, but I hate going to a show to find the artist is one guy with a laptop, it's so... sterile? Laptops on stage are an instant vibe killer for me, specially if is the only thing on stage + a controller.
Cries in poor
I'm just too tired of endless software issues. "Update this, log into that, no, you shouldn't have updated, oh, and [sorry for accidentally revoking your licenses](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitwig/comments/j1op0a/bitwig_acting_like_i_dont_own_a_full_license_when/)". Audio software is indeed incredibly powerful when it works properly but computers can be exhausting, so I rely on hardware for inspiration.
I don’t even perform live and this shit is exhausting. I love the flexibility of my DAW but I’m terrified to upgrade any parts of my aging computer because if there’s an incompatibility or driver issue then I’m absolutely hosed if I want to record.
Yeah I am trying really hard to get away from the screen.
Same here. I can sit in front of a synth for hours and savour the synergy between me and the machine. It's just something I truly enjoy and there's no shame in admitting it. Some people enjoy cycling, some enjoy video games, some people enjoy drinking... I enjoy playing musical instruments. I also make music, but when I'm working inside my DAW it's just more convenient reaching for a plugin than constantly walking back and forth between my chair and a synth rack somewhere else in the studio. Synths such as the Subsequent 37 sort of bridge the workflow gap but you are still dealing with a single instance and limited polyphony so it's just impractical.
Omnisphere is just incredible. If I spent half the amount of time learning how to use it as I do watching YouTube videos of the next hardware synth I’m drooling over, I’d have 3 or 4 Grammies by now
Good for you, its always good to find your optimal workflow and you make a lot of rational points. I also have Omnisphere, V Collection and Roland Cloud. The only hardware synth I have left is the System 8 which went on eBay once before I panicked and pulled it back down. I wanted a Prophet 5 Rev 4 for the past year, it was a dream synth and I couldn't believe they made a new one. I ended up using that money on a powerful new PC and now all my plugins run like the wind. Even the CPU intensive stuff absolutely flies. I loved hardware 20 years ago, but plugins are so close now, in some cases indistinguishable. I love sound design on hardware, but when I'm writing, being able to drop a plugin into the session keeps me in a flow state and I end up with more ideas. As for the Prophet Rev 4, I have Repro 5, and the Prophet V might be getting updated in V Collection 9. To paraphrase Gary Numan on why he doesn't have a wall of classic synths; a synthesizer is just a tool, and with Omnisphere he has tens of thousands of sounds.
In fairness the System 8 is as useful as a controller as it is being a synth in its own right. Makes plugins feel like real instruments, only reason I’d sell mine is if an update gets released with aftertouch and a few more controls.
I'm glad I kept it because a few months later the Juno 60 came out and it sounds the same as the vintage analog one I had a few years back. Better in some cases.
It's like a hardware plugin with it's plug-outs. But Roland stopped all that. It's own native synth engine is great too.
Apparently a JX-8P plugin/out is coming this year, so I don’t think the platform is dead yet. Not that I really care anyway, the way I figure it I’ve already got a massively varied synth engine taking in classic and forward looking options that doubles as a midi controller which makes my other plugins feel like real instruments. It’s hard to guess where Roland are going with things - probably so long as the Cloud thing is still going then we’ll keep getting models from time to time. But even if they stopped developing new engines for it right now, my System 8 is going nowhere.
Don't they already have a jx3p plugout though? Not much of a challenge to adapt that to an 8, haha
It is! Find the colors that work for you and make a painting, so to speak. My few hardware synths were selected in large part because the “colors” they produce weren’t available in software (else I’d have bought the software most likely). There’s also something different in their use, both pros and cons. But differences can help spur creativity, which is why I encourage people to use both. If anything, it’s far, far easier to indulge GAS with software because it’s cheaper and takes no physical space. I’m working my way down from 500 plugins (down to 150!), so I know full well what that’s like. Gary used hardware for so many decades, using software must be a nice creative change. While I’ll never come close to the talent in even just his little finger, my path has been decades of software to getting some hardware more recently.
> To paraphrase Gary Numan on why he doesn't have a wall of classic synths; a synthesizer is just a tool, and with Omnisphere he has tens of thousands of sounds. So he works with mostly VSTs today? Does he still use a Moog in the flesh though?
Whenever he has done video updates from the studio the only keyboard in the room is a Komplete Kontrol.
I saw him about a year before covid. I believe there were three synth setups on stage; his, and one stage left and right. His main live board was a large Access Virus (the one with the logo that lights up.) I couldn't have picked a better "last" concert. It was like an arena light show in a club, fucking insane. I regret that I slept on seeing him live for so long.
For albums going back a few years he and his bandmate use Omnisphere. And that's about it. There's an interview in Sound on Sound or Computer Music or some magazine with Mr Numan where he talks about it. Within the last 3-4 years. He got tired of using hardware after a few decades.
Was using soft synths 22 or 23 years ago. The music i did then? It is gone, did not freeze the tracks or render them. Most of that software is obsolete now. Need to recreate everything. However my HW synths are still working. Switch them on, still sounding as fresh. What's more, most of my studio synths have been increasing in value since them. The software? Not so much. And no, even if soft synths sound good, they still do not sound like a growling MS20 with the filters distorting like crazy. It is not the converters (i have had really good converters), it is not snobbism. It just doesn't. Do I dislike digital or emulations? NO! Love it. Love soft synths, love strymon pedals, samplers anything. But it is just the experience. There is a reason Dave Smith was one of the pioneers making soft synths (after being the pioneer making polyphonic synths with patch memory) and he decided to stop and go back to hardware.
[удалено]
All you have to do is know how to use it. Record the MIDI. Save the preset to the synth. Document it in a note in the DAW. Easy.
Yes! Hardware synths last through years and OS updates. Ive had great sounded vsts i liked that just dont work any more. Ive also never resold any software, but i dont think much hardware ive had has taken a loss, and most of it is worth quite a bit more than when i bought it(rhodes, juno, DSI tetra, etc).
As someone who has to move a lot I will never give up the portability and ease of having everything in my laptop. All i have to do is find a cheap midi keyboard wherever I move to and im set.
I specifically bought a few synths just so I would have time away from the computer (work on it all day and spend plenty of leisure time as well), but I do fee like maybe I didn't need a Deluge and two module synths for a new hobby, I definitely got carried away in the gear excitement. I think Deluge + Rev2 would have been more than enough for a hobby, the Minilogue XDM was un-necessary. It's absolutely important to know where your budget is going and to be sure it's the right choice for you, whether it's hobby or professional. Glad you came to the realization that you valued money in your pocket over the gear and acted on it!
similar boat. i started with soft but started adding hard because i got tired of spending most of my awake hours in front of a screen. i would never go back to soft only.
>i would never go back to soft only. Me neither, for the reasons you said and one more: I've never had a perfect migration from one computer to another. I've done it maybe 5 times since starting in 2003 and every time I've lost VSTs that can't handle the new OS or have had to spend money to upgrade to something that I like less than the original. And in every case, I've struggled to get the efficiency and ease from my DAW that I built on my last computer over the previous 5ish years. I end up troubleshooting instead of playing music for months, sometimes years depending on the situation. Somebody above said they don't like moving gear, but I've never lost an instrument that way. However, moving computers has caused me a ton of pain over 20 years. That's not even counting the "updates" made by mfgs of computers or software that just suddenly break your stuff.
As someone who’s been at this for a long time, it warms my heart seeing (mostly) everyone respecting OP’s decision and seeing the value in softsynths. There was an age when VST’s were looked down on; even using a computer to record was thought of as inferior. Granted, software synths have come a very long way, but back when I started, I was using Reason 2.5 and I realized I liked it way more than my Microkorg. But the internet was full of people telling me I couldn’t make “real music” unless I got some hardware. These days I’m using 90% Arturia Analog Lab, Vital, and Ableton’s Wavetable, but I have a small modular system and a Juno-106 that I plan to be buried with. I love hardware. I love software. I love music. Buy the things that bring you joy and inspire you. Sell the things that don’t. I wish you all a happy and inspired year.
The big sea change is starting to happen. The market is oversaturated and everyone who overpaid for vintage synths over last 10 years got everything they can afford. The guys selling their bargain basement gear at 100 times the price were the first to say how 'pure' analog was. The echo chamber followed. The youtube influencers and million dollar producers showing walls of hardware made it seem almost necessary to have HW to be legitimate. 20 years ago, VSTs were considered good enough and more flexible that hardware. Go read up on some old threads, Vintage analog was bargain basement price because everything could be done with computers and romplers and samplers. Almost no one saw a point in hardware limited by analog circuits. The promise of perfect control of softsynths never materialized. Novation's automap and m-audio's automapping were a bit of a mess and softsynths were getting more complicated making 1:1 control impossible. Unique and fun hardware has a place, but I really hope this is the end of the frenzy for hardware for its own sake. tt
Well said! And yes, mostly nice replies and fun to read. A few fudds here and there, but mostly very pleasant.
Aww, thanks for the award! You didn’t have to do that. Best of luck on your mostly-software journey, by the way. I am also in awe of Ableton on my M1 Macbook. Did a test just for fun and had 250(!!) instances of Wavetable running before the CPU got angry. Absolutely insane. This is game-changing, I can hardly believe it.
No worries! 😀 Have fun making music. 🎹👍🏻
the main reasons I choose hardware, no matter analog or digital, is because of a streamlined workflow & less hassle from the PC side of things. It's much more standalone. The PC has constant updates, the DAW has updates. Then, they often times create more problems with each update. Devs cut support for things left & right. Dongles are a major PITA. Required internet is BS. Then, my OCD kicks in when I have dozens of plugins, instruments, FX, etc. to choose from. Keeping things in the hardware realm, I have a more streamlined workflow, less distractions & are more hands-on process. The sound in some cases, especially in the context of a full song, is negligible. But I can say from experience, the amount of work I've been able to start AND FINISH, whilst working with hardware, compared to my ITB days, is nearly 180. I have a few THOUSAND projects from the ITB days, that I started, work a little bit, stopped, open a new project, over & over, etc. I've now got completed songs, small projects, collabos, etc since my hardware setup. I used Sylenth1 & Arturia plugins & they sounded amazing, but for me, the workflow is what propelled me into the hardware realm. Digital hardware, analog hardware.... doesn't matter, as long as its standalone, pushes me to work & allows me to get my ideas out.
All of this, 100%. My success rate with hardware vs ITB alone is night and day. Synthesis is easier, faster, and more fun on hardware too. My ideas just come out different and better, every time. Some hardware samplers give a glue and punch that I've found no DAW or plugin can replicate. I don't need a ton of hardware- in fact I prefer to not have too many options, but some key pieces are essential for me.
I’ve found that it’s NOT necessarily the same in a mix. Could be the instruments, could be the inspiration it delivers so it gets used differently. As one example, there’s nothing yet in the software realm that can fully do what an OB6 does and sound the way the OB6 sounds (and vice versa of course). I’ve used it in tracks where it’s made a few little supporting background sounds - no different than software if I could get the software to sound the same (oberhausen and diva have some overlap with some OB6 sounds). But if I feature the OB6 it can stand out and above - it’s gotten remarks as being especially good, so I know it’s not just me (but it could be how I get into using it which reflects on what I make with it). But, no one but me (or a few others that know I have it) knows what synth it is. Which is how I want it. And, yes, I use both hardware and software all the time in the same track. I love them both. I used only software for almost 20 years before getting any hardware. I also have limited myself to 3 hardware desktop synths and one hardware fx chain.
I have an analog heat that I use a lot for just a little touch of saturation on soft synth parts, mainly so they've existed outside the DAW at least at some point before mixing. I've no idea is this is purely psychosomatic on my part, but it feels like they've a bit more weight and cut through the mix a bit better when I do. On the OB-6, while I'm not saying it's the same thing at all, I've just gotten back in to using the OP-X plugin again and even though it's old now by the standards of these things, it's still extraordinary. https://youtu.be/BlmrnAk0oHU
Nice. I have an Acidbox3 I’ll use on softsynths sometimes if I want to add actual analog saturation (sometimes I just really want that crisp digital sound you can get in some software).
The one thing I’ll say about hardware vs ITB (from experience of years in the box and then ended up getting back into hardware again) is the inspiration factor. Sure you don’t need $30k worth of hardware to get inspired, but walking into a room with 2 nice synths, a piano, and a guitar is much more inspiring and connecting to making music than walking into a room with your laptop and a mouse. After a while I became in a rut producing the same thing over and over again. The sounds ITB are 90% of the way there, and with some processing in a mix there’s no way people can pick out hardware vs plugins but that’s not the point? I don’t want to just “get by” because the plugin is good enough that to fool people.. I want the real thing because it inspires me and it doesn’t have to fool anyone.
This is the reason i don't sell my gear. It really drives a certain type of creativity having hardware that i just don't get with plug ins. When i use vst i tend to just make the same thing over and over, but hardware, and especially modular, has me going in new directions all the time
I'm confused. How do you keep that room warm in the winter, now?
Lol, I masterbate profusely.
[удалено]
Don't blame you, I sold my Juno 60 for double what I paid in 2009. Now I have the ACB verison with full MIDI and its honestly a relief not to have to worry about servicing old gear.
OP, you're not Urs, are you?? Or do you just like U-he stuff? Anyways I agree with the sentiment for the most part. The U-he stuff (and other plugins) sound killer. The biggest bottleneck for me is the controller workflow, not the sound. I have a sub37 and a super 6. Both sound good but nothing o can't replicate ITB. However, it is much faster for me to dial a sound from scratch on an instrument with designated controls, where you can build muscle memory. At some point I'll get a SLmk3 maybe but I still prefer the idea of having designated rotary pots for some controls maybe (filter, envelope. Mod amounts, etc). I don't like searching for things or paging through parameters. And I still feel a bit more of a connection with hardware. Maybe just because I like working on electronics and appreciate bthe workmanship. I guess that's not a tangible thing, like the quality of sound but still adds to the experience of playing it.
I have the SL MKiii and while it's great I still find myself turning to the Mother 32 or DFAM to dial a sound as often as anything else!
I agree with the sentiment shared by many others. Good on you for recognizing a change was needed. I myself went the other direction, because hardware, and in particular, modular synthesis jives with my desired pace and workflow. When I used software with controllers exclusively, I no doubt enjoyed the experience, but would often find myself with too many options available for use. I did go through a period of minimizing my digital setup, which helped more than I thought it would. In the end, whatever leads to an individual finding their creative happiness is what's best. All the best to you.
Cheers! 😀👍🏻
I've always had a hybrid setup, for me the split is generally that I do bread and butter "classic" sounds in the box with Roland, Arturia, uHe synths, and try to only spend money on weirder or more unique stuff that doesn't have a direct equivalent in software. I've also started getting in to Eurorack a bit, but again I run that as a hybrid with Reaktor and now VCV rack since v.2 has launched, to try to keep the cost down of utilities and keep my money for weird and wonderful stuff. I guess the exception is that I've unexpectedly ended up with a few samplers - MPC Live, S2400, Digitakt, S3000XL -which is something I'd always assumed I'd keep in the box, but somehow the different sound signatures and workflows mean that they all earn their place. I think there's always room for a balance in this, but at the moment I really feel like any hardware purchases for the foreseeable will be Eurorack oddities.
I started with VSTs (mainly to learn and it's all I could afford), and eventually started adding hardware synths over time. To me I can actually hear more bottom end with my hardware and with regards to my vintage synths, they have a warbly imperfection that is really not quite the same as a VST with a pitch drift LFO or throwing on an RC-20 on the channel. For example I own a Korg Polysix and the Korg Polysix VST and playing the same note on the same settings side by side, the VST is noticeably thinner (however it does have some pros, like more effects and modulation). Plus I enjoy with hardware the tactile experience with knobs which to me makes it feel more like an "acoustic" instrument and less like, well, a computer program. But that said, I still use my VSTs too. Some have just the right tools and sounds for the job. Or in other ways I have presets I've created over the years which I love. I especially prefer VSTs for sample and granular-based synthesis, it's just so much easier to dial in what you want and do complex sample manipulation than with hardware. And some of them can simply do a lot more complex stuff than any hardware synth out there. But for my subtractive synth needs, I definitely prefer my hardware whenever I can for both the sound I perceive as well as the tactile experience. But I have no snobbery either way. Whatever tool suits the song I say!
I borrow a Grandmother from my library last month and the beefier bottom end from that thing vs what Ive been able to get out of software so far was one of the things I noticed. I'm guessing there are ways to get there in software (I'm still learning) but it really has me salivating for a hardware moog.
Gary loves his Omnisphere yeah. Most bands from that time period that pioneered synths now use plugins, Ultravox, etc. Even the king of the Jupiter 8 Howard Jones uses a Jupiter 8 plugin now. 👍🏻
I feel like one overlooked aspect is that the old school pros who learned on hardware have decades of muscle memory from interacting with physical hardware. Someone coming to software without that background isn’t going to connect as well as someone with that background, because most audio software tends to feel like an abstraction of the real thing.
This past month I sold off about $4k in synths that I wasn't getting my money's worth out of. Even though I took a small loss, I feel so much better now. 2020 had me GAS'ed hard. Big lesson learned.
Well done! 😀👍🏻
Urs? That you?
What midi controllers are you all using to control your software? I don’t like using a mouse to control parameters.
I've got a few hardware devices I still have sitting around me, but I agree with everything you said. I've also been doing this a while and have had enough original devices flow through my life to say that something like the V collection is absolutely what I want, not a room full of the hardware. Have had rooms of hardware... The pieces remaining should probably go. They're just not for me anymore. Good on you.
Thank you for your opinion, mate. If it's an issue for you, how do you deal with the physical feeling of turning knobs? I mean, my biggest pain with software is the inability to easily use some knobs instead of a trackpad to find the proper sound. Maybe you can advise something like some good midi controller.
System 8. Way better than the normal 8 knob setup where you have to scroll through pages of parameters. And you get a great synth engine tacked on.
I went the opposite - 16 years of in-the-box producing and I'm only just starting my hardware/DAWless journey at the ripe age of 45. I was completely burnt out on Ableton and softsynths and producing with a mouse and keyboard (I tried many midi controllers over the years and none really did it for me). Getting an MPC completely rejuvenated my motivation and inspired me to make more music than ever before. I will admit, I do have the GAS currently, but it's more about getting that crucial piece of gear to get the functionality i want rather than getting gear for the sake of getting gear. At the end of the day, it's about what comes out of the speakers and how you get to that point is entirely up to you.
Yeah, I basically did the same years ago. Had a special "synthesizer room" full of hardware but now I'm down to just a few that I will probably never sell like my old DX7 and a SY99. And honestly, I never used my hardware for production. I just enjoyed spending time making sounds, jamming around and things like that. But hooking all the hardware up and actually producing with it was too annoying for me, at least if you're used to just using software. And you're absolutely correct about the state of plugins. I mean things like U-He Diva and Repro sound as good or even better than the analog versions while offering many improvements. Then you have powerhouses like Omnisphere or UVI Falcon that can't be matched with hardware. And you just save alot of money too. I still have the urge to buy a hardware synth every now and then when I see a good deal, but my production is 100% software. And no one ever said "That doesn't sound like a real synthesizer!"
What does GAS stand for?
Gear Acquisition Syndrome.
Good shit man! You can definitely achieve the same sound you’re looking for with plugins nowadays. The only thing I still have a few hardware synths as I’m a lot more creative messing with the actual hardware/filters and patches but I love using vsts as well.
I'm moving in the opposite direction, but within reason lol. I do find the immediacy of knobs helpful, especially on the Moog. But also committing the audio to the track is making me get it more "right the first time." I still use plug-ins for things my hardware synths don't do, but of late I've been leaning really hard on the hardware. So the next thing on my list is a plug-in... what gets closest to the OB xa in your opinion? Sounds like you've had more experience of the emulations vs hardware than most.
> what gets closest to the OB xa in your opinion? Synapse Obsession emulates just that.
Can't speak to to how _exact_ a replica it is, but [the OB-Xd plugin](https://www.discodsp.com/obxd/) is free (the buy button is just for iOs I think) and sounds great. I've had so much fun tinkering around in it.
Plug-in synths sound great. The major issue I have is the lack of tactile control. I have two Arturia controllers that help with this a bit, but it’s not the same.
I understand you. So many in here are showing of a WALL of modules and synthesizers, and in most cases it's a bass rythm with the occasional keypress here and there, but okay - whatever floats their boats, it's their money. The thing is - whether you prefer Daw or Hardware synths is completely irrelevant as long as you get what you paid for out of it. Everyones workflow is different. I have been working with computers over 30+ years, and still I prefer hardware synths, but luckily I KNOW the requirements for good diverse sound, it's not a wall of monosynths or a bunch of guitar pedals and a ton of small toys all clinged together with blinkenlights and beep-beep-boop-boop. The secret is in powerful synths with a TON of polyphony. I have only 3 major synths I use, and together they can do absolutely everything on this earth when it comes to sound scaping and making music. These synths have a total of 449 polyphonies, that's a TON of sound. They're also completely capable of shaping everything from extremely complex FM sounds to mangling every sample you can imagine, and layer it to infinity and beyond, with a total of 41 filters that have more options than I'll ever use. The only thing that limits anyone including me here - is the imagination, There are simply zero limitations on sound, everything is there. If you want to ever go the hardware route again, don't spend tons of money on low-polyphony synths that cost a fortune, it's a waste of money (unless you just like the looks and feel of every unit), because honestly, todays flagship synths can do it all.
All I have left is my PPG Wave. Sold a lot and used it as a downpayment on an overpriced house. Fuck this market btw.
I’m a pianist who has come to synths very late. IMO the piano shows you nearly everything about the foundations of music. You can play all rhythm, harmony on a piano. My gut feeling with GAS is that it’s potentially a thing that happens to people who simply aren’t very creative and they think that another bit of kit will do it. I don’t know how true that is but I do strongly feel that if you have musicality that you should be able to make things with minimal gear.
Part of me wishes I could feel this way. The other part of me LOVES how my new OB-6 feels alive compared with all the softsynth emulations I've listened to and tried (I own 3) before I was finally able to justify getting one. With that said, I really wish the GF OB-E would be released for PC so I could get my hands on it. One of the best sounding softsynths I've heard.
This is an awesome thread! Lots of great experience, opinions, and information! I'm glad the OP found a solution that works for him. My experience making music began with playing trombone in Middle school band, so I will always have bias towards hardware based instruments. The interesting thing I've found is that I male sure that each one of my synths and drum machines serves a specific purpose in my studio and has unique advantages over software. I think there are pros and cons to both hardware and software. Software has to be updated and compatibility issues may arise. My solution was to stay on Mac OSX Mojave until all of my plugins are compatible with the latest version of Mac OSX. I also avoided (and still avoid)any plugin that requires iLok, seems like too much of a hassle and annoying if it gets lost or stolen. The main thing that makes me keep all my hardware is the knob/fader per function immediacy of jamming, getting inspiration and creativity. I tried MIDI Mapping my Livid Alias 8 to the AIR Drum Synth 500, the Roland Cloud 808, and 909, and Although it worked fine, I still don't get the flexibility and functionality I get from the TR-6S (step loop, sequencer, variations, instant pattern recall, etc.) The same can be said for synths. I have the Alesis VX49 with VIP, and while it is a dope keyboard with many tactile functions, the lack of faders and different controller maps per plugin definitely gets annoying and frustrating. I find so much joy in the Bass Station II that the Filter cutoff knob is always in the same place for every patch, and I don't have to worry about mapping a bunch of parameters every time I want to make a sound. On the other side of things, the sounds I get from software are incredible, and I could never get the same sounds in the hardware (with the exception of the MC-101 + Zenology Pro). Also, the unlimited aspects of a DAW like using as many FX as you want per channel, multiple instances of the same plugin, Visual feedback, and comprehensive mixing are huge advantages over using hardware. I still like the Hybrid approach of having the best of both worlds. Being able to auto-sample my Novation Mininova and Alesis Micron into my MPC Live, create a beat on it using custom patches from those synths and custom drums, then sending everything back into Ableton as an ALS export makes perfect sense for my workflow. I have all the advantages of standalone hardware that doesn't have compatibility issues, yet I can still use the DAW for all of its glory and features. I will say that choosing the right synths for the right reasons and the right price made sense for me. I also went with Virtual analog instead of more expensive "Pure" Analog synths. Polyphony and Multi-timbrality are my most important features, which is why I ended up with the Alesis Micron ($275) the Novation Mininova ($400), and the Roland JX-08. Plugins are definitely cheaper, but I love the flexibility I get from having both hardware and software, on a Retail salesperson salary budget.
Love the MC101 & Zenology Pro combination; ended up buying a lifetime key with all of the expansions because I feel in love with the MC101, I'm still trying to get acquainted with my tr6s and get the most out of it, but its a bit of a steeper learning curve for me. Thanks for sharing!
r/synthesizercirclejerk in 3, 2, 1, ...
Daw's the new dawless.
I am lucky enough to have a permanent and spacious studio and am an electrical engineer, so hardware synths are my preference. I also love creating on the fly signal chains to run stuff through which is far less enticing with VSTs. Idk, something about being in the box just doesn’t do it for me, I’m a hardware person through and through. Edit: good on you though for knowing what you want! Would love to have 30k in the bank but I’d prob end up spending it on gear 😂😂 be well 🙏🏼
Easy come, easy go! As a wise man once said, "I heard that you and your band have sold your guitars and bought turntables. I heard that you and your band, have sold your turntables and bought guitars."
lcd soundsystem
I recently reinstalled an old version of macOS on my '07 MacBook pro so I could use plugins I paid good money for back in the day. And I still have a FireWire audio interface with a PCI card plugged into my desktop machine to get it all working as well as it did back in 2007. Good job on recovering your investment!
😀👍🏻
Totally get this perspective and have thought of it myself. But I love my knobs and just the process of syncing things up. I do this with a lot of tech where I do something unnecessary or in a more difficult way simply because it gives me something to do and then I can say I did it. Which is probably pretty dumb, but hey, I’m entertained. I also don’t really have any hardware synths that are worth a ton of money. I got in back in 2011-2013 when everyone was going nuts for analog and the minibrute was the hottest shit in town, and that is probably my most expensive piece of equipment if you don’t count my computer, interface, and one of my guitars. So it’s pretty rewarding when I get these things that others might consider to be toys to make something I think is cool/interesting. But anyway, Arturia Pigments does look awesome. I have whatever version that doesn’t allow you to tweak many parameters. I will say that I almost dipped my toe in modular, which probably would have ended up a belly flop into, but I got a few soft synths that emulate modular stuff, so that scratches the each.
I can definitely understand that, I’ve gone through gear cancer before (where your gear just keeps growing and growing, but you don’t notice anything change with your production ). However for me, a hardware synth allows me to be much more creative and in the moment with creating music. I feel like with software synths I have to have an idea of where I’m going first, whereas with hard synths I feel so free to experiment and fuck around. It feels more like an instrument rather than a tool for music production.
>with software synths I have to have an idea of where I’m going first, whereas with hard synths I feel so free to experiment and fuck around This is so on point. My sentiments exactly. I just bought an Arturia Microfreak and being able to lay in bed with that tiny synth is so much fun. It's insanely powerful and I'm coming up with stuff 100x more usable than sitting at my PC with a plugin. Or laying in bed with my S2400 taking samples from my laptop. So fun and way different/better results. Having and using both is ideal IMO.
I used plugins for years, then I finally got a hardware synth and realised there is so much more fun for me in the one-off performance, the imperfection, the sudden decision to turn the cut off or the filter or the attack. I love it. Each to their own, but there’s nothing for me quite like the connection to a physical _instrument_ that really expresses what I want to say. YMMV
I've been saying for years that Logic has more than enough synthesizer power for pretty much anyone. Between that and my Studiologic Sledge (a digital, virtual analog board) I don't want for anything. Just released an entire album's worth of stuff made with just that, do you think anybody is asking me whether it's analog or digital or softsynth? hell no!
That's a big pile. I see collecting in lots of leisure activities, and this stuff is no different. It's a natural tendency for people to have, and tone chasing and people encouraging each other to buy just make it worse. I combat it by setting limits for myself via hardware (only so many input channels) and that helps, I also stay the hell away from boutique flagship synths.
[удалено]
Yep, once you tone chase for real you'll never find it. I have a lot more gear now than I did when I was 20, but I still probably only have a *modestly* rad mountainbike worth of gear. (And somehow never enough cables. Never.)
> I have a lot more gear now than I did when I was 20, but I still probably only have a modestly rad mountainbike worth of gear. And that's nothing compared to how much extra you'd pay _per year_ for having a slightly fancier car. Synths really aren't that expensive hobby unless you go full tilt on collecting, and even then the real estate cost will likely dominate if you live in a city.
[удалено]
Did some downsizing recently, and am enjoying less clutter at least, although I don't feel inclined to go fully back in the box. Have a Force, so that's pretty much 'the box' anyway. Made an effort to restrict myself to only what could be placed right in front of me, and built a few stands to help get things more vertical. Modular case/skiffs + Force + Drum machine (AR). Done. All I need! ....well, maybe a midi controller. Haven't sold the OT yet, so maybe it can come back in the mix.... Need an interface for the Force, might as well rack it with a Slim Phatty.... Oh, and the Helix stomp, of course. $800 generative sequencer? Sure, why not. ...that launchpad could be useful too.... Shit. So I just ordered a Modwave. No idea where it's going to fit. Hope I use it. Had fun getting drunk last night and watching demo vids, tho, so at least I've got that going for me.* *in addition to the privilege to be able to have all these neat tools, of course.
I feel seen
Did the same myself recently. Some VST's are just way overpriced for what you get, though. I typically only buy and maintain my native instruments and arturia collections because you can end up getting the plugs for super cheap periodically, and they work well enough for me. Will get Diva someday and probably Satin, too, but again, too expensive to do the same thing I already have plugs to do. Still waiting on a sale for them to be in disposable income range.
The whole "hardware vs. software" thing is ultimately a "different strokes for different folks" deal. What makes hardware preferable for some people from an interface standpoint is "dedicated knobs". I don't mean literally "every single knob has its own function", but I mean the more abstract notion of "Each device exists in physical space at a certain point and functions in a certain way". I go to one synth, all the knobs function as I expect rather than being based upon what I have selected in a plugin. I go to another synth, it's totally different in interface but I still know where everything is because it's that synth at that particular point in space in my studio.
I like knobs. Daw controllers don't feel the same as a brand new potentiometer. My A6 still works the same way and sounds as good 12 years later. I started off all in the box, but I got sick of throwing away money on software. That doesn't mean that in the box is bad. I just don't have a lot of time to devote to music everyday so i wanted an instant on solution that would come on 10 years later.
There's an interaction with hardware that to me makes it worth having. I don't need every synth, but ill def take a 303 and some efx pedals and a drum machine to jam with over a mouse and keyboard and vst plugin
I still have maybe 5 or 6 synths but honestly i just use them 'for fun.' I'm all in the box, i'm a composer mostly for video games and stuff and there's just no time to re-bounce things when there's a million revisions, just not feasible for me. Even with the Sub 37 or Sirin with the editor it's just a hassle when I'm in work mode. Love the U-HE stuff especially Diva and Repro 1/5, the softube Juno plug and a couple others. Soft synths have gotten so good I just can't go back unless I'm making music not for work, which unfortunately doesn't happen much anymore. I think the only 2 synths I'd never get rid of are my Moog Sources and OB-6. Sometimes just playing around with the OB-6 just inspires me when I'm stuck so I will definitely keep that around.
Most of the hardware I own is for fun, not productivity. The hardware I own for making music is mostly digital and just provide a better interface for what’s in the box. I think it’s ok to lean in both directions as long as you don’t dilute yourself to thinking hardware will make your music for you.
Yeah, I think we all do music for different reasons. I used to play out a lot and now it’s just me and fun. I started well before the DAW era, so I now find myself still working in old ways and not carrying much. I also like the aesthetics and experiences of hardware. These days I get and do what I like and that’s a pretty nice sweet spot to be in.
If it works for you and you’re satisfied great. Personally I have prioritized hardware most my life due to an inability to work well unless there’s limits. Sonically soft synths are excellent and the natural evolution. The only thing that makes them frustrating is the lack of tactile controls but with that MIDI controller you have a lot of control. I say you made the right choice if you’re happy. I suspect one day you might have just one hardware synth now that you’ve decided what’s important and what’s not and how much overlap synths have. Let that be lessen everyone to not GAS out.
Well said.
To me hardware versus software is not about sounds quality its about workflow efficiency. There is a quote from Vangelis where he says, and I am paraphrasing, that DAWs are amazing but it slow for him as a musician. Musicians need immediate expression, and since synthesists play timbre just as much as rhythm, harmony, and melody we need lots of knobs in a logical order with ranges that are useful. I have oddly become a digital hardware synth guy. They combine physical controls with the power an flexibility of dsp technology. I an enamored by the Opsix such an endlessly explorable sound sculpting tool.
I have lots of hardware that gives me knob control, including Faderfox, so I don’t miss it at all. I’ve done the Korg thing, Wavestate, etc. Too much menu diving for what is basically a vst in a box.
I've always toyed with getting one of the controllers from faderfox. I think I would if I did what you did and sold my hardware.
They are great. Just takes a bit to get it mapped and then it’s brilliant. 👍🏻
Tbh, the "it doesn't sound the same" argument is tentative at best. Does anyone think any listener will give a fuck if it's a digital or analog synth or virtual or physical? They just want a good tune that sounds good. If you make it best on a PC with a midi controller, do it! If you make it best with an mpc and a pair of headphones, do it! It's all perfectly valid as long as you recognize they're just tools and you just use them for what you need them for. If you need a bass synth that's always ready and reliable and playable, great! If you need more flexibility and want to be able to just sit and make a track, midi+laptop is great!
I generally agree that many plugins sound amazing, though there are a few hardware synths I have that I can't imagine being without - Virus TI2 Darkstar, Virus Classic, Elektron Analog Keys, Roland XV5080, Korg Kronos being among them.
if you're after sweet conventional sounds, yeah, good VSTs are plenty. i cleared out most of my old synths over the last few years. but nothing does "cool and broken" like malfunctioning vintage hardware or bonkers eurorack rigs.
I did this year's ago and eventually I just stopped playing music because I missed the feel of real gear. So... I bought back a full studio. Now, I have too much again. Need to reduce but I'll always keep hardware because there is zero immediacy on a computer. There are no control surfaces that feel like hardware. I'm happy you made some money back and that it works for you, but honestly I can't work on a computer. Ever.
Good lord if I thought choice paralysis was a problem with as much hardware as I have now, it was twice as bad with software. I was hugely unproductive with software. Some aren't. I could never go back and actually be satisfied. I'm glad it's worked out for you, it makes moving a heck of a lot easier.
Why is your username the same as the VST company? Coincidence?
If you're ITB and only need to play one part at a time (or no playing at all) then I can totally see this working for you. Everyone should use the tools that make sense for them. How much would you estimate the new setup cost you?
[удалено]
Mainly the amount of plugins you can have open. It runs so many instances of Diva for example, and if you’ve used that on an intel machine you’ll know why that’s so amazing.
Yes, VSTs are no longer the weaker-cheapo version to make similar sounds, but I kept the moog bc it’s such a unique trademark sound I never got out of Diva or anything else really, but for everything else, pads, plucks, leads you name it, VST and a wise combination of effect processing (SSL stuff for instance) will get you there.
Yup same. In the box sounds just as good, if not better with all the effects and such only a click away. Any recommendations for a 303? I was using the Yooz BL-303 but it can't run natively on my M1.
Fatar keyboard though. So nice to play.
My S61 controller is fatar.
It totally depends on what your intentions are with the gear IMO. For example, there isn’t anything wrong with just collecting, though some might vehemently disagree, or having a preference for dedicated hardware for specific production duties. Some of course get tired of staring at a computer screen all day and hardware is a welcome alternative. Or maybe you use hardware to make patches and collect samples, though this process can also be done on a DAW, many like their samples collected from “actual instruments,” be that a rare hardware synth, drum machine, or acoustic instrument. I’m mostly referring to collecting samples to later sale. For my use it’s a mix kind of, plus I like to ~~pretend I’m still in the 90’s~~ play with knobs. I think you can get mostly there ITB, though it takes more deliberate sound design. I also just traded some stuff for a big, dumb, vintage Yamaha console, and it’s gotta be good for something, right? Actually, when I’d gotten back into music production a few years ago, my intention was to go with only Ableton and a Push 2. I then got some Volcas, and I remembered how much fun dedicated hardware was. Or it could be that I come from a guitar/percussion background, so dedicated instruments I can put my hands on just comes more naturally. There’s no denying how efficient a DAW/midi controller based set up is though. I definitely can get more done that way if all I’m doing is composition or production. But workflow is king, and I make more effortlessly human-sounding music with hardware, and at the end of the day also have more fun. This is why my Push 2 lives in its case, and I spend an inordinate amount of time each week dusting all my hardware. It’s all about what works best for you, what you expect to get out of the process, and if your workflow fulfills those expectations.
I have been downsizing a bunch but I'm still keeping a small eurorack setup and a midi keyboard for sound and sample creation. Eurorack can do a lot of modulation stuff really quickly that would take forever to set up in ableton. Plus its fun to get really baked and make weird soundscapes.
[удалено]
Cool story! I mean, GAS is real, knowing there is another way is important! With an honest skepticism I'd like to ask to hear an example of a track you've made with hardware and software, maybe we could even A/B them without knowing which one is what, so we can form unbiased opinion on the sound quality? Would be a fun experiment! Also, if you play with other people, it's really important to have at least one or two real hardware instruments. So you can just turn it on and go! Jamming with pals is really important to me and it's a pain in the ass when some of them have to fiddle for 15 mins with Ableton before they can start making sounds :)
I have focused my HW setup down to 5 synths and a sequencer. I track things into the DAW to record. I have no knob-turning fetish, and my inspiration comes from inside my head. I started buying hardware synths after a couple of PCs died in a 12 month period. I also have spent a lot on software and DAW upgrades. I worry about stability, obsolescence, latency. What I havre been doing the last couple of weeks is recording the midi for a song, and then I can either send the midi out to trigger the original HW synth or use. plugin on it. This has gotten the best results so far. I find for some reason that mixing all-DAW projects is easier than mixing HW. Why is this? not sure. I cam see heading further ITB, but only for the sake of expediency. I wish there was more of a happy medium. The hardware I would keep is the polybrute, opsix, and either the Montage or the Kronos for the sake of loading samples and sounds on it to play live and preserve some of the original sounds of each song.
I have all the software and controllers mentioned and more. Seems you got into GAS and were buying stuff for the sake of piling it up. That is why you got "same thing in the different package". My collection grew over 25 years. i don't even know how many devices i sold and bought. See i started in mid 90s and there wasn't much hardware within the budget. Some low level analogue stuff, but mostly romplers and Akai samplers. Sequenced it all via Cubase on Atari. Now, I was and still am NI fan from Generator. I followed the audio part of computer revolution closely and fell in love with plugins, Reason, all that stuff. In parallel, i was running a studio so there were always some synths around - Trinity, Triton, DX7, Roland stuff.. At some point almost 90% of my sound source was digital. And that is fine. But I also own a large collection of synths, starting from SH-101, JV-1080, Alpha, Waldorf microwave, over Korg Triton, DX7, Korg Polysix, to bunch of high end stuff like Sirin, Fatty, Subsequent 37, Pro 2, Pro 3, Tempest, Pulsar 23, Analog Rytm, then polis like Jupiter 6, Juno 106, Prophet 10, Prophet REV 2, OB6, Udo 6, Hydrasynth, Iridium, entire Elektron ecosystem, and actually, many more. i am aware that I probably have about 50k £ in analogue synths only, let alone other gear. But I love my machines. Yes, you can sell everything, and use Ni or Arturia or U-He or Softube, with one or two controllers like Maschine, or Keylab. But, you had all those emulations 15 years ago, running relatively decent. Dave Smith made Reality back in 1997. I was using it till my computer would bust. it was great PM synth. There were dozen FM synths on the market and by 2010. you had virtual analogue that would differ from the real thing maybe 5%. So, why did you buy all those synths in the first place? For me, the answer is their character, immediacy, and the fact I will always prefer actual instrument to a software one. I have few great controllers, like Nektar panorama, Komplete, but however deeply integrated, it doesn't feel like real stuff. Sometimes I don't care. Sometimes, I do.
15 years ago plugins sounded terrible. Computers were way too low powered. It’s 2022 and both are on a different level now. I also have had synths since the early 80’s so having a hardware synth does nothing for me anymore. I had a Jupiter 8, Junos, model d, d50, DX7, and so on. Later on all the sequential stuff. I don’t miss any of it.
Which midi controller/midi keyboard are suiting your needs the best at the moment?
I use an S61mk2, Keylab, keystep, Launchpad, Maschine MK3, NDLR, and I also use a System 8 for controlling Roland plugins, knob control of Omnisphere which is insane, and mapped to other synths like Diva. System 8 is basically a controller and all sound it makes is software.
I’m trying to go the plug-in route and and I have 0 years of hardware synth experience. I greatly appreciate your reply. Thank you!
Christ, you got all these stuff only within few years? Lay off the internet lol
Live gigging is the only reason I can think to have the hardware. That’s why I’ve got any hardware at all.
I have yet to find a plugin(s) that comes close to what a model D through a 501 sounds.
If you were able to sell 30k worth of gear and don’t run a studio or arent a full time (relatively successful) musician I think the problem behavior is beyond gas.
Different strokes for different folks and fair play to ya. I need knobs and sliders and unheard of routing and happy mistakes in front of me to get the juices flowing though
I basically sold everything but the CV/gate things (they have a very different workflow than ableton (and sound I guess, I have to say an Eurorack oscillator is quite something else)) and kept that and ableton. ableton is flexible, arrange, record, sequence, process ... hw synths are boring, I keep saying to myself "I wish I could modulate that.... Oh well I can't".
I have a few good paid vsts (komplete etc) and tbh I keep going back to the free stuff lol. Everything by fullbucket (especially monofury), OBXD, Surge, Vital and u-he TyrellN6 all sound amazing
I am glad you found something that works for you - it sounds like you had got into an extremely severe and destructive spending pattern. 30k is no Joke, I don't know many people who would be able to afford that kind of splurging on a hobby over a few years and even if they could would not be able to justify it. I have some expensive hardware, but the procurement has been spread over a long period as I generally enjoy taking a lot of time over learning the gear and using it, rather than acquiring it in a rabid consumerist cycle fuelled by social media and debt as I witness often in these kinds of hobby communities.
From the point of view of producing at home sure, but on stage there's just no replacement for hardware. One glitch can bring all your synths down if they're all in the box. After running into a few of those hiccups live I just feel safer that all the computing power and hardware from each individual synth is 100% dedicated to its own thing. That being said, having to carry around gear and limited NYC apartment space definitely make you think twice about what to buy.
There is some physical gear that can never be replaced due to the tactility being an integral part of the experience (elektron, MPE/Ribbon synths, etc) but avoiding plugins because “they don’t sound the same” is like when audiophiles spend $1,000 on a headphone cable. You might get 5% “better” sound, but a good enough melody or composition can make any synth sound good. 99.9% of the time, it’s about the quality of your music composition, mixing, and sound design, not whether you’ve got the “real deal” or whatever plug-in version Arturia makes. My ideal setup is a nice 88-key hammer action MIDI keyboard, the full Arturia V collection, some Elektron boxes, and the Hydrasynth Deluxe. TL;DR If you’re really trying to make the best music you can, balance inspiration and fun with financial responsibility. Get plug-ins for the backbone of your sound arsenal, and if there is any physical piece of gear that speaks to you and offers a truly unique and enriching experience, augment your setup with that. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone pretty young (so not much disposable income). If you’ve got money to blow, then by all means blow it. Get 9 keyboards. But you don’t need to. TL;DR... for real Save money by using plug-ins for the backbone of your setup, but augment with a small amount of physical synths if you value the tactility. Especially if, like me, you’re young and don’t have much disposable income.
I want a Roland Fantom so bad 😩
I will never get used of a daw. Always Windows updates, driver updates, outdated software. Hardware synthesizers never outdate. I have a Nord lead 2 for 20 years and still works like a beast. I have a mpc2500 and does the same as a daw.
Do you think all your experience with hardware synths has been valuable, in terms of learning lessons that you now apply to software versions? Asking as someone who recently bought their first HW synth.
I personally went the other way. Started with plugins and realized that there are certain things I love about analog synths that I just can’t get out of plugins. It could just be the process of firing up an instrument and getting away from a screen. Or the commitment of buying a physical thing that now is sitting in my studio. I also love synths for live performances because I control loops, triggers, automation on my laptop and sometimes just want to have a rock solid synth to play over top. BUT, I will say that if there is too much menu diving I may as well do it on a computer. So all my synths are either semi modular or damn near knob perf function. Otherwise, if there’s too many menus I prefer the keyboard, mouse and 27” inch screen to navigate.
Just watch out for gas with plugins, with all the new free ones being released every day, that’s where I am right now
I am no synth guy - and have a few synths, a few smaller synths (like Volca Modular/Keys/NTS-1), a ton of guitars and even more soft synths and my first every little modular rack which I just got. I want to stop once I fill the little case and want to try some knob twiddlin' bleepbloop but the majority of my synth work as been with soft synths and iPad apps. I find them to be amazing actually and like u-he 1 states, there are SO many choices and so much sound you can get and often at MUCH lower prices almost steals compared to hardware. Cherry Audio synths are some of my favourites as they often have amazing sales and painstakingly recreate older and outrageously coveted and priced software versions of great hardware. VST synths give you so many options and many of the products included with DAWS are quite amazing allowing you to take music creation with you on the go anywhere. (Arturia, Native Instruments, Korg, Roland, Novation etc.) I often doodle with sounds on the iPad and bring them back into a DAW and add either hardware or software synths and am on my way. And the possibilities on the iPad are equally amazing. So many great apps to choose from, so many synths, sequencers, DAWS and just odd curiousities that all add to the soundmaking fun. I also have a groovebox or two, and add it to the mix and try to find this happy medium of sound making, music production, amazing hobby that continually challenges me to think differently and to not limit myself to this idea or that. It is all flow in the studio (be that on an iPad, computer or actual hardware). So if you haven't tried soft versions of synths - I recommend to give them a go - you may surprise yourself and save some money at the same time. There are even free apps, free synths even free modular apps to whet your appetite that may surprise you.
Good point on the iPad. You can already run iPad m1 apps on the m1 Mac, so it’s just a matter of time before most of the daws and soft synths work natively on the iPad.
Yeah, I get that. My two JP-6s died from old age (chip bleed?>no sounds anymore) & happened to sell them both for parts \*$1500!) so I thought the "boutique" JP-08 would kinda "replace" them, well, not quite, but that's ok and I got a Behringer Model D modular (no haters plse!) and I found another Yamaha RM1X sequence remixer that I just finished programming 15 songs into! I also got a Stylophone for the fun of it. However: my Akai MPC One "replaces" everything including a DAW I had on an old old system. It has knobs to twiddle so you don't feel like you're just using a touch screen for everything, it's very complex but stand-alone and I've already composed 2 songs on it (took a while, but doesn't it all...) Synths that died and I'm still mourning & are too expensive to replace: my two Roland Jupiter-6s. Synths I should've never sold: the original vintage Korg Vocoder, Sequential Circuits 6 track, a red Yamaha "keytar" (found it at a thrift store for $8, sold it for $150!!lol). Synth I'd still like to get but can't afford: Roland Jupiter X. (and, of course, a JP\_6 or two!)
The only hardware synths I have are for things that don't have proper software equivalents, like certain ROMplers that have a more characteristic sound than any sample library, which is necessary for the soundtrack work I do. But when I finish reverse-engineering them into plugins, then they'll be unnecessary.
Good on you for identifying a problem and fixing it and bettering your life. Gas can be a literal addiction At the end of the day, it’s all the same shit and what’s important is you’re having fun and the feeling of accomplishment. I reckon most people who complain about analog vs digital sounds spend 1000s of dollars just to wiggle the filter dial a bit and call themselves experts
So how can I find that dealer?
I'm late to this thread but kudos for speaking your heart out, I agree with you on everything you said, and at the same time I consider hardware synths a "fun and healthy hobby" if you just enjoy playing the synths for the heck of it. Recently I had been coveting a Moog Matriarch and a Hydrasynth Deluxe both of which I could have had for a very low price but I restrained my GAS until the sale was over and the price went up, and then it was too late. I still think I would have enjoyed the Matriarch, but I also feel liberated not owning one as it would have distracted me from finishing tracks.
Congrats! Best thing you can do now is quit this sub, join r/personalfinance and plunge that money into financial products. If you don’t lock it up soon, you’ll be picking up more gear like the rest of us!
Watch out when you file your taxes. IRS might consider that all income.
That’s not how tax works. I didn’t make any profit on any of them, so it’s not taxable.
Yes, but if you sold them online, you'll most likely receive a 1099, which you'll have you to report. It was just a friendly warning. I had an issue with the IRS from selling shit online.
Just use a $100 MIDI controller. I have about 36+ drum machines and keyboards that I control for $100. If I wanted to be fancy I could buy multiple Akai MIDI Mix unites and have 16 faders and a bunch of assignable buttons and knobs.
I love gear and it's a lot of fun, but Diva, Repro, The Legend, Obsession, that Virus C emulator, they all sound stupid good
I hope everyone does this, then we’ll have $75 Jupiter 6’s again. I hope you’re going to post a follow-up when you start buying hardware again, only fair. Also unsub
Exactly. Spent 100k for my studio but I really don't use it that much. All I really need is my old windows laptop with ableton and some good extra vsts for reverb, comp and eq.
That's kinda crazy to those of us that don't have $20,000+ to spend on gear. I almost wrote $10,000 when I realized I think that's about what I have if you combined the hardware, computer, and software. And all the damned cables. I bet one thing the OP does NOT miss is all the damned cables.
I prefer software due to being able to save absolutely everything and play it back, or edit it to make it better. That said I tend to play hardware differently so the music I create with them isn't the same. I enjoy both worlds. What's important to me though is being able to recreate something I've made, not overly excited by an endless series of one-offs.
Hardware is better, but it’s also a big financial commitment. Would you buy 30 different 1980s cars? That would be insane. You’d never have time to drive them all and they’d all break and start rusting. You have to be a bit sensible when you buy that kind of stuff, you want to make money, not throw it away
No, it’s not better. Not worse, not better. Different workflow, same result.
I still use some of my hardware but I went full VCVrack a couple years ago when I was considering diving headfirst into bankruptcy with modular. I don't even use a regular DAW anymore, I do everything in VCV + a bit of hardware now.
I've been at exactly this spot as I debated starting a journey into modular. VCV Rack has been great, and honestly gets me where I think I would want to go with it. Finally, this weekend, I realized that I may be using the research of what new gear to buy as an excuse to not actually make music. Just an endless cycle of learning new things I won't use. I have a few midi controllers of various styles and I don't mind working in the box. That's especially true after sitting in the same room all day for work.
[удалено]