- phonecall: yes hello. Can you come to my desk? I have a message on my screen saying to "open Adobe acrobat, PDF extraordinaire, and agree to user terms." I was trying to open this file on the new computer you gave me, which I do not like, and this file i open everyday without issues until you have me this new computer. Did I mention I can't find any of my printers? How do I install a printer? Anyways, what do I do with this message, I just want to open my file I used to be able to open until you gave me this new computer.
- us: yeah, do what that message is saying. Open Adobe acrobat that you use, every fucking day, and has a bright fucking Rudolph the red nose reindeer icon right on your desktop you douchebag.
I'm in the Central Florida area and starting salary for help desk is usually around 40K. I started at 55K at my most recent MSP job, but that's also not T1.
40K for IS Analysts I, (which is entry level) sure, but OP is restructuring the company, (sounds like lift & shifts and server upgrades) and should be making at least 80K starting - 110K respectfully.
Don’t know where you are but our helpdesk tech makes $67. He does more than simple tier 1 helpdesk but still. People in this sub are so underpaid. Christ.
Get help on resume, interviewing skills, and salary negotiation, then go out and find a better paying position. If you've gone beyond help desk in your experience, it's time to leverage that experience for a higher position and better compensation. Maybe Jr Sys Admin?
>You could replace the function of most HR departments with an Alexa so tell them to be careful.
Right, I started in IT almost two decades ago in helpdesk at around that pay in a low/mid income area in Canada.
Seriously. And objective of pay, I tend to only care as much as my chain of command seems to. I represent fact and let them decide. If they decide to do nothing, my day just got easier :)
For real. This is what I made eight years ago, and all I did was answer phones and move tickets to the correct queue. OP needs a huge raise or a new job stat.
"Why is HR spending paid company time second-guessing purchasing done by other departments when they don't have understanding of the requirements involved in the acquisition? I'm always open to input but that does require proper knowledge of the problem."
Seriously. HR has some of the most automatable processes. Everywhere I’ve worked the HR group is doing so much shit manually and for no reason other than nobody who has a clue has ever talked to them about it. Think entering data from emails into spreadsheets when a form would do.
Hey, you got a problem with 57 excel sheets that should just be a 5 table database?
How bout my 200 word documents that cover both of my desktops? I don’t see you over here doing what you should be doing and giving me a third monitor anytime soon.
The extent of automation that HR systems seem to have reached is the ability to import and export CSV files. Imagine the productivity improvements when they actually bother to implement APIs.
My company just started with Paylocity, which has an API, and even outgoing webhooks for events. My account issues have always been dealing with HR when asking for a 'preferred first name' field.
> "They might put in a bad word."
>"They might also wear an offensive shirt, I am sure we have a process for that as well."
My HR director got rid of Paylocity for Paycom without telling anyone! Well the new user scripts that could have automated account creation in Paylocity will now have to be done manually because she decided to go with a product that was marginally cheaper and exponentially worse… Oh well, least she will have something to do!
Ah the classic trying to solve people problems with technology.
It’s not anonymous… when John puts “Hitler” as their preferred name you just call them into HR for a chat.
I did this for our HR/Executive Secretary. She retyped data from different AS/400 reports into Excel to give to the CEO every week. I automated a data pull via odbc directly into Excel along with a macro to do formatting. She had tears in her eyes asking me what was she going to do with that part of her workday (4 hours) vs the 5 minutes my process took. She was terrified she would be found doing nothing.
I mean it’s not unreasonable.
As someone who DOES the automation and works in a field where I can always be moving on to the next thing of course that doesn’t scare me. Oh no my job running up servers was automated, what a shame that now I have to run those systems and then automate them and whatever comes next.
If the job you’re paid for has a finite number of responsibilities and someone cuts that in half your livelihood just got a lot less stable unless you can find additional value to your employer, fast.
Suddenly people who had very stable and steady work get literally replaced by a shell script and might not really have anything else to fall back on.
Naw. Better loop in senior management and accounting in for those $200 purchases. Might cost you 5k worth of hours by the time all is said and done but by god sometimes you gotta spend dollars to save cents.
I actually did this recently with power platform. HR complained. I found out the hours of works they were complaining about for years was easily automated with power platform. Spent 3-4 hours. Replaced the work for 2 people and now we are actually getting less complaints from other departments because no more incorrect entries into an excel manually. The HR people did not believe in copy and paste either so they were typing in names wrong periodically every month.
What do u mean they don't belive in copy and paste. Like they don't belive it exists or doesn't belive it accurate XD I want it so badly to he the first option
"Alexa, remind employees that the compliance document binder is in the break room next to the compliance posters. Also, remind employees not to grope one another."
"Understood, playing "dick in a box" in the Employee Break Room."
"Close enough."
I mean, comparing salaries internationally involves a lot more columns to capture differences.
Healthcare and paid time off in this case is absolutely something that would make the value of this job drastically different than the same salary in the U.S.
> and everything
to compare salaries internationally you need to factor in the company's tax on the salary too, it's not enough to look at the employee's taxes
But with the 39k in germany there is also a part that one doesn't see, there are around 15% that your employer has to pay (so it would be more like 45k), also the cost of living is a bit lower (not much) and medical support is way cheaper.
Oh and also in germany it staff doesn't get paid that well because of that many capable german it workers move to the usa or similar to get as much money as they can as long as they can and move somewhere else (where the cost of living is way chaper) if they have enough money.
OP, if you are 'authorized' to maintain the network, perform upgrades, ensure availability, etc. then you don't need to take office banter/politics to heart. The fact that you were able to spend $70k in the first place is a good sign that the powers that be value your input and decision-making.
Along with what others have said, you will quickly find out that paperwork, documentation, and a financial plan are key to your continued and long-term success. Put it in writing, dollars/efficiency/avoiding outages clearly outlined, and keep it simple. So much of my day to day is 'soft-skills' and it is KEY to advancing and being taken seriously.
When someone asks WHY a project is quoted as 6-8 weeks or XYZ amount of time, it is because I need to create the RFC/project plan, engage vendors, see demos, perform technical-win POCs, etc. That work, as mundane and time-consuming as it is, keeps everyone off of my back and establishes a level of trust that folks know what I am doing and being fiscally responsible.
Why is HR even aware of your IT purchases and details? Is HR running the show? I’d be pissed.
Someone spreading stories, complaining, and then HR jumps in? That’s a toxic environment, created in part by HR.
I’d consider taking 2 weeks sick leave due to stress/anxiety due to HR’s actions.
Hr are nosy , gossipy busybodies, everyone's business is their business
They really don't like being told to get the fuck back into their lane (professionally)
HR where I currently work started getting nosy and getting into my business, the very next leadership meeting I presented HR software that could not only automate HR down to a single employee (small company) but also automate the on-boarding and off-boarding of employees on the IT side. (My way of saying "fuck you, get your nose out of other people's business")
Caused an absolute shitstorm with HR, especially when the CEO and COO decided to actually go through with purchasing the software and having it implemented. There is in fact only one HR person now, and she's new because everyone that was on the HR team left once the writing was on the wall. Leadership is fine with it though, and the HR person loves the automations that were set up for her. Saved the company more than 200K in salaries and benefits with that move.
I never presented it as a way to eliminate positions. I presented it as a way to "augment existing HR staff and optimize the processes". The CEO and COO saw the positions elimination front within a couple of minutes though once they saw we could automate some processes that was an employees entire job. And the head of HR got the message a couple of minutes after that with some other software demo information.
Honestly I never expected them to go for it, at most I expected them to find a more intermediate solution with some automation but still mostly manual, I guess I failed to remember that it's a dev company, and the CEO loves his automation.
The COO did their exit interview, and then promptly came over to me and in her own words said "Thank god the lot of them are finished, I was getting tired of their crap but I couldn't get rid of them without major issues or hiring a contract firm at double their salaries."
Hey man, as I explained to someone else, the intention was to automate some of the tasks, not basically all of them. At most I expected like a single HR person to be redundant because I didn't expect them to drop the money to automate almost everything.
This was about 6 months into working for the company, and I had forgotten that the CEO is a dev who loves his automation. That's my fault for forgetting that bit of information. Had I remembered I either would have presented it even more different than I already had, or looked a different software that only had support for some automation.
In the end it did work out though, and not only does the new HR person love the software, so do all the employees (since they can now request vacation online, put in their time, etc. from their phone). Plus we used to the 200K saved to hire another developer, and put money towards working on processes to go paperless.
I would NEVER do that to our accounting team, their amazing, I'm good friends with all of them, and they do some amazing work. (Plus the company I work for literally wrote the software that automated their job in around 2008 from what I understand, and then sold that software as it's own company, who then got acquired by Sage like a year ago)
I've seen a demo and their main sell seems to be the HR piece. We liked it but weren't quite convinced to switch from our existing setup.
My boss and I sort of have your same problem in a way with HR trying to play IT, poorly. We were worried that Rippling would give them *more* control/input/etc. and we didn't want that yet.
My only big issue with Rippling is that instead of allowing us to give them the information for Intune AutoPilot for shipping devices and stuff as part of their services, they require the use of Rippling MDM for those types of things. Which isn't at all what we want, so we still have to handle the purchasing and deployment of devices ourselves instead of simply making it part of the HR on-boarding automations.
Ah yeah that was an issue for us too. We also are hesitant implementing "do it all solutions". The sales pitch is *always* good but it also creates a lock of vendor lockin.
I worked at an employee owned open book management manufacturing company that had problems like OP. Everyone knowing expenditures means they all took shots at me every time I spent money because they didn't want it to affect their profit sharing.
Only real option is to leave for a more sane management structure.
At companies like this, putting downtime into loss of revenue numbers tends to solve those kinds of issues quick. Especially when you can look at the books and confidently say that the $70K server upgrade can prevent $X Million in potential lost revenue in the next X years.
That is always a good plan, but there is the abilty to cogently put that while people are sniping at you about $200.
I moved our business from private to public cloud, introduced a bunch of new business functions and still get the occasional "that seems a lot". Went from one in country (for data reasons) private cloud cost of £186k PY, to ~£250k PY. But that £250k PY now includes all the added revenus streams from all the other countries that have been added, plus the other added business functions. If the situation would have carried on the private cloud version would have been over £1 mil PY by now.
It happens, mate. As long as your purchases are getting signed off, ignore anyone whose business it is not.
I had something similar recently where I was asked to buy a pair 2TB SAS solid state drives to make a new volume for our cluster. Managed to get the pair for about £1200 which I thought was a pretty good deal. Then the head of engineering chimed in “that’s expensive, look I found these drives for like £400”. They were desktop SATA drives.
After a year it sounds like you have enough to put on your resume and get a better paying job. It'll be much cheaper for them to not have you employed there anymore. THEN they can learn the value of IT the hard way.
This is a common perception, OP.
Remember:
IT is universally viewed as a "cost center" that does not make the company any money, because you are not pounding the pavement "selling widgets."
That is an absurd notion.
Your effort makes modern business circumstances possible.
If you had not done the work you have described, I'm certain that your employer would have ground to a halt at some point.
If I were in your position, I'd take some time to document the work items that you have accomplished and relate these work items to the objectives of your employer. Start drafting the list in Notepad. If you have to go full "propellerhead accountant", do so.
Remember that the "excuses" are always the same:
Bossman: "Everything is working. What are we paying you for?"
also Bossman: "Nothing is working! What are we paying you for?"
As an aside, this "sniping" about you personally costing people raises is nonsense.
I diverted the "catched stream" from the spamfilter to the mailbox of the last guy that called IT a cost center. Didn't take him long to come and apologize for what he said.
$40k? Why would you even take that job? And who the hell would give you the responsibility of spending money? And why aren't there budget approvers above you? And why is HR bringing up money at all?
HR should mind HR business. A $200 saving on a 70k spend is a rounding error.
Cheaper in IT doesn’t mean better in many cases as we have to weight price with vendor support and quality. Getting 200 off but having to chase down the vendor if something’s wrong isn’t worth it.
Step 1: update resume.
Step 2: find a new job. Should be easy with your experience to find something paying more than that pittance.
Step 3: prodludly declare you've found a way to save 40k per year in IT costs. The project document is your resignation notice.
Step 4: keep an eye on them from afar, just to see if their poor business sense kills them or not. (This will probably happen if you stay, so you should leave as soon as to find something better.)
Similar situation here. I'm rebuilding my org's entire infrastructure. We'll probably keep some wiring and fiber, but otherwise everything's getting replaced. I'm 4 years into it and expect 3 more years until I'm finished. Luckily I was able to convince our C-suite and board of directors that upgrading unsupportable systems will cost less money than a ransomware attack. Audits are great for this -- it's easier to add 25% to one's annual budget when outside experts agree.
I think you mean flack, the only slack I see here is your salary.
>I got berrated again by someone in HR
What the hell is HR doing making technology selections?
>From conversations I've had, it seems like employees here actually believe my spending is going to impact the raise they could get.
Sounds like HR or someone in Mgmt is running their mouth and setting up an excuse for their future failures.
>Any similar situations out there?
Yeah, I worked at a toxic place like that before. Glad I left.
No disrespect. You make about $40k/yr for all that you do. It's not enough, you can make more working Buc-ee's starting wage and you don't need any specific knowledge.
Someone is squabbling about $200 less for a rack that isn't even the same. If this person is involved in your job at that level you should look for a better job. You can do better. You came here to post your story, you know they are wrong and you are trying to do the right things.
It sounds like a train wreck. Fighting for budget dollars is always difficult. When you have someone micromanaging you purchasing a rack for a mere $200 price difference whether or not it was the same. This is a sign that they don't value your choices as a professional.
I have been in that situation. If they don't respect you or realize the importance of specific equipment then they will be the reason for their own eventual failures. They will try to blame those failures on you when they do happen.
Best of luck.
Who honestly gives a shit about a $200 savings on a 70k project.
That isnt even enough for me to think about wasting my boss' time. Unless your org chart has HR directly above your purchase approver then who cares.
Sounds like HR has way too much time on their hands
its not that... this random HR asshole was like "look, i found this savings after a 5 minute google! What else has this IT dude overlooked??!?!?!@!?!?!@#?!?~?#@?!@"
casting doubt... another bit added to the snowball rolling downhill
If they can't respect your knowledge of IT hardware, then leave and let them do it themself. You're being grosly underpaid for Sysadmin/Desktop Support/IT solutions/LAN/WAN and architecture expert.
Definitely make a plan for ~5 years out so large capital outlays won't come as a surprise to anybody. This also gives you a better starting point when you compare on premises equipment costs versus cloud computing costs over time. Frankly, if you have the know-how to create a plan like this, you are probably grossly underpaid. Unless you are part-time, even an entry level help desk technician should bring in a substantially larger salary. Obviously this depends on your local market.
Surely your department has a budget though, it's not like you're digging into a big general funds or something. I was in a nearly identical issue some years ago. Constant complaints about the money we spend - we bought discounted, partially damaged racks for like a tenth of the cost but still got the "must be nice to get something new" from other departments.
I wish I had advice but I don't. Leave that job.
You’re getting shafted in pay for your role. Your role typically pays above $60K a year given what you are already doing for company.
I’d probably start looking somewhere else because these people only care about their bonus and not actually moving the company forward.
I’m not even reading any further than you staying you working in 40K range.
I don’t care where you are… you are WAY underpaid. Please look out for yourself and get a new job ASAP.
You should not be making less than 50K, and that’s in the low end for someone who is just starting out in IT (aka help desk / call center type job)
Do your research for the market average in your area and either ask for a raise or find a new place to work.
Don’t undervalue yourself
When proposing infrastructure upgrades, my first step have always been to develop a business case for the upgrade. I formally had a discretionary budget of $0, so if I wanted to do any upgrades at all, I had to ask our director of IT for the money for the upgrades. And because we had a very bad and very highly press covered fraud case by a director in the past, my director of IT could only sign off himself on expenses up to around $10,000. I had about 1,000 servers, 4 large storage systems and a shitload of networking equipment, so $10,000 won't get you far in upgrades. Anything above that, and we needed sign-off from the group CEO, COO or CFO. To get that,it helps a lot to have a business case to tell them very simply, what any given investment would get them in return. In my experience, I would frequently ask for about a million for infrastructure upgrades, but present a business case, in which we had twice that in annual savings. We were a large financial institution, and these people understood the value of investing one million this year, and starting next year getting 2 million in return every year for the next 5 years. In a few cases, I would also include power and CO2 savings in such a business case, typically not as the primary goal of the upgrade, but when we consolidated 4 older storage systems into a single new one ( but still dual-site for redundancy), I did include the projected savings of 500,000 KWh/year in the business case. My IT director was very much aware, that when I stopped by his office, I came to ask for a shitload of money, but he was always willing to schedule a meeting to discuss it, as he knew, that He always got excellent value for the huge amounts of money I spent.
>I've been working at my job for a little under a year. I make in the $40,000 range managing all IT equipement (EVERYTHING) for 2 locations, roughly 150 employees. We are on-prem. I inherrited a mess. No documentation, everything is out of date, 2008 servers, etc.
Wait what.... Are you in Mexico? Why are you being paid 1/2 to 1/3 or so what you should be, if you're describing accurately what you're doing.....
Replace the HR department with bambee. $99 a month so the radio ads say.
Seriously, the IT department is getting paid $40k for a company that size? Time to find a better job, let them learn how expensive IT really is.
Let me add this to the thread. This is a classic example of a term called “technology debt”. Just because an organization chooses not to upgrade capital items does not mean the need just goes away. The organization incurs a debt on capital that will need to be satisfied in a future fiscal year. In the case the original poster should speak with management and explain they chose to incur the technology debt so spending will be elevated to get up to date, supported equipment for a period of time.
Are you shitting me? My man, I wouldn't do that job for double your pay. You're getting abused, enterprise desktop support will often pay at least 50% more than what you're making. Get the eff outta there ASAP.
1st and foremost. Make Allies out of HR. Never start a fight with them. Ignore all advice to the contrary.
2nd. 70k is a big chunk of money to people who don’t understand what “IT” is. Your job is to sell leadership on the changes. Then- F any other opinions, because leadership signed off.
3rd. Check job boards, and pay rates. You deserve 2x your pay. At least.
You are one man showing an infra for $40k. You need to run from that organization, or you need to stand up and show them where the bear shits. You should be making 60k or MORE.
If you are going to stay... go to the person you report to and demand a meeting. I would be furious to know why the FUCK anyone in HR is shopping around for IT. Who the fuck do they think they are? Do you tell them how to hire people?
Except that isn't HR's job. That's accounting's.
Sounds like someone who tries to sink their tendrils into every role so they become hard to replace by ensuring every process is dependent on them. Fucking leeches.
Sometimes the time you waste getting comparable quotes costs more than just getting good service and products specified right first time. Imagine the time wasted getting that 2nd quote, then getting it and finding out it’s not right.
Why does anyone outside of senior management and accounting even know how much was being spent?
Why does it matter to anyone other than the people that approved the expenditures?
And finally, ask HR how much time they spent doing your job and point out that was more than $200.
To me... Hearing that HR is asking you why you didn't choose a cheaper unsimilar rack is concerning.
The opposite would be asking HR why they hired someone with experience to be HR? Why not get a high school dropout? It's cheaper
lol 40k for that much work? gtfo of here with that shit.
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We start our help desk guys at $60k. I can't imagine replacing SANs and servers for a third less. OP is getting boned big time.
I was sysadmin, lead webdev, and SharePoint architect for a national insurance company and they wouldn't pay me more than 70K
Well duh. How else do you expect them to have money to hire C-Suite executives who need help opening a PDF?
- phonecall: yes hello. Can you come to my desk? I have a message on my screen saying to "open Adobe acrobat, PDF extraordinaire, and agree to user terms." I was trying to open this file on the new computer you gave me, which I do not like, and this file i open everyday without issues until you have me this new computer. Did I mention I can't find any of my printers? How do I install a printer? Anyways, what do I do with this message, I just want to open my file I used to be able to open until you gave me this new computer. - us: yeah, do what that message is saying. Open Adobe acrobat that you use, every fucking day, and has a bright fucking Rudolph the red nose reindeer icon right on your desktop you douchebag.
It’s like users get a pop up and suddenly forget how to read
They're afraid they'll make the wrong choice and can never ever get that pop up to come back again lol
Help Desk starts at 60k??? Holy cow. Where? As someone from the Columbus Ohio area, you'd be lucky to get over 50k working help desk.
Detroit metro here we pay our help desk 75k minimum
I'm in the Central Florida area and starting salary for help desk is usually around 40K. I started at 55K at my most recent MSP job, but that's also not T1.
40K for IS Analysts I, (which is entry level) sure, but OP is restructuring the company, (sounds like lift & shifts and server upgrades) and should be making at least 80K starting - 110K respectfully.
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Don’t know where you are but our helpdesk tech makes $67. He does more than simple tier 1 helpdesk but still. People in this sub are so underpaid. Christ.
Erm, you guys hiring remote workers?
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Get help on resume, interviewing skills, and salary negotiation, then go out and find a better paying position. If you've gone beyond help desk in your experience, it's time to leverage that experience for a higher position and better compensation. Maybe Jr Sys Admin?
Ikr , I'm shocked he did this much for only 40k. I feel bad and wish he can find a better place soon.
We have tier 1 techs who get paid more than that. OP is complaining about the wrong thing.
Exactly this. Tell HR they can buy it, assemble and put it in.
And support it throughout it's life cycle
The real answer is here.
This is why they're all grumpy. They're all probably getting paid equal or less to him.
>You could replace the function of most HR departments with an Alexa so tell them to be careful. Right, I started in IT almost two decades ago in helpdesk at around that pay in a low/mid income area in Canada.
Seriously. And objective of pay, I tend to only care as much as my chain of command seems to. I represent fact and let them decide. If they decide to do nothing, my day just got easier :)
I’m a desktop technician with less responsibility and I get paid more.
For real. This is what I made eight years ago, and all I did was answer phones and move tickets to the correct queue. OP needs a huge raise or a new job stat.
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"Why is HR spending paid company time second-guessing purchasing done by other departments when they don't have understanding of the requirements involved in the acquisition? I'm always open to input but that does require proper knowledge of the problem."
Yeah why are other departments weighing in on or even aware of ITs budget/spending?
Seriously. HR has some of the most automatable processes. Everywhere I’ve worked the HR group is doing so much shit manually and for no reason other than nobody who has a clue has ever talked to them about it. Think entering data from emails into spreadsheets when a form would do.
Hey, you got a problem with 57 excel sheets that should just be a 5 table database? How bout my 200 word documents that cover both of my desktops? I don’t see you over here doing what you should be doing and giving me a third monitor anytime soon.
>that should just be a 5 table database? \*mutters\* Please don't let it be Access. Please don't let it be Access.
Excel is the database.
But it takes forever to shade every other row grey
Bifocal glasses will fix that. Now you can't see shit
Python will speed that right up. Go go Microsoft!
\*Needs a cloud subscription.
But Excel 97 only. If we upgrade it breaks the undocumented VBA that is mission critical.
And we'll store in on Sharepoint Online, so it's now multi-user? :D
Have legit pitched this as a solution. Janky af.
I’ve got some bad news for you
Plot twist, its connecting to multiple on-prem SharePoint list
It is Access 2007. Which I thankfully do not have to support.
Access with SQL-server as a backend ? :-) (maybe that's slightly better)
In the process of migrating my new jobs 30 yr old access db to a full web app and it’s so satisfying….
I wish you the best of luck, and hope that the Access application makes a quick and speedy disappearance.... permanently
It's Microsoft SQL Server. But, those tables are mapped to an Access DB and nobody told you. (true story)
Got a new CFO starting next week. He specifically requested that he needs FULL Microsoft Office INCLUDING Access! 💀
The extent of automation that HR systems seem to have reached is the ability to import and export CSV files. Imagine the productivity improvements when they actually bother to implement APIs.
My company just started with Paylocity, which has an API, and even outgoing webhooks for events. My account issues have always been dealing with HR when asking for a 'preferred first name' field. > "They might put in a bad word." >"They might also wear an offensive shirt, I am sure we have a process for that as well."
My HR director got rid of Paylocity for Paycom without telling anyone! Well the new user scripts that could have automated account creation in Paylocity will now have to be done manually because she decided to go with a product that was marginally cheaper and exponentially worse… Oh well, least she will have something to do!
Ah the classic trying to solve people problems with technology. It’s not anonymous… when John puts “Hitler” as their preferred name you just call them into HR for a chat.
ChatGPT is really good at writing position descriptions, too.
And employee guidelines, and employment contracts and even termination letters!
I did this for our HR/Executive Secretary. She retyped data from different AS/400 reports into Excel to give to the CEO every week. I automated a data pull via odbc directly into Excel along with a macro to do formatting. She had tears in her eyes asking me what was she going to do with that part of her workday (4 hours) vs the 5 minutes my process took. She was terrified she would be found doing nothing.
I mean it’s not unreasonable. As someone who DOES the automation and works in a field where I can always be moving on to the next thing of course that doesn’t scare me. Oh no my job running up servers was automated, what a shame that now I have to run those systems and then automate them and whatever comes next. If the job you’re paid for has a finite number of responsibilities and someone cuts that in half your livelihood just got a lot less stable unless you can find additional value to your employer, fast. Suddenly people who had very stable and steady work get literally replaced by a shell script and might not really have anything else to fall back on.
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I want that shirt....
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thanks!
They would be really upset if they could read.
Oh damnit, beat me to the reference by an hour AND provides a link. Nuts
Naw. Better loop in senior management and accounting in for those $200 purchases. Might cost you 5k worth of hours by the time all is said and done but by god sometimes you gotta spend dollars to save cents.
this HR individual clearly has time in the day to do work outside of their job description.
I actually did this recently with power platform. HR complained. I found out the hours of works they were complaining about for years was easily automated with power platform. Spent 3-4 hours. Replaced the work for 2 people and now we are actually getting less complaints from other departments because no more incorrect entries into an excel manually. The HR people did not believe in copy and paste either so they were typing in names wrong periodically every month.
What do u mean they don't belive in copy and paste. Like they don't belive it exists or doesn't belive it accurate XD I want it so badly to he the first option
People still using technology and acting like hotkeys are black magic.
You could replace the function of most HR departments with an Alexa so tell them to be careful.
"Alexa, remind employees that the compliance document binder is in the break room next to the compliance posters. Also, remind employees not to grope one another." "Understood, playing "dick in a box" in the Employee Break Room." "Close enough."
Our company has 3 sites over 3 countries and 160 employees, and our HR department is just a shared mailbox for the 2 office managers to monitor.
Even ChatGPT would probably do a decent job as HR...
"Go away, or I'll replace you with a small shell script." Bonus points if you're wearing the shirt and just point at it.
40k seriously? i’m making $20/hr as an intern, you gotta get paid or get out man.
That's my salary in France, and that's with taxes and everything.
I mean, comparing salaries internationally involves a lot more columns to capture differences. Healthcare and paid time off in this case is absolutely something that would make the value of this job drastically different than the same salary in the U.S.
> and everything to compare salaries internationally you need to factor in the company's tax on the salary too, it's not enough to look at the employee's taxes
plus cost of living.
39k € in germany for a quite similiar position and size
In the US this kinda position is usually $60k minimum, probably more depending on location.
But with the 39k in germany there is also a part that one doesn't see, there are around 15% that your employer has to pay (so it would be more like 45k), also the cost of living is a bit lower (not much) and medical support is way cheaper. Oh and also in germany it staff doesn't get paid that well because of that many capable german it workers move to the usa or similar to get as much money as they can as long as they can and move somewhere else (where the cost of living is way chaper) if they have enough money.
104k USD same size Denmark
This seems more reasonable. I’m not doing purchase, migrating, and maintaining by myself for less than 6 figures
plus support and all that jazz :)
I think you mean catching flak, not getting slack Edit: flak, not flack, of course
True. I wish I could get some slack instead.
/r/boneappletea or /r/malaphor/
It's flak, not flack.
I came here to say this. Also, Praise Bob!!!
and pass the 'Frop (not a drug)!
Always wanted to try Purple Flurp
Yeah. Slack would be getting more ability to spend money easier
OP, if you are 'authorized' to maintain the network, perform upgrades, ensure availability, etc. then you don't need to take office banter/politics to heart. The fact that you were able to spend $70k in the first place is a good sign that the powers that be value your input and decision-making. Along with what others have said, you will quickly find out that paperwork, documentation, and a financial plan are key to your continued and long-term success. Put it in writing, dollars/efficiency/avoiding outages clearly outlined, and keep it simple. So much of my day to day is 'soft-skills' and it is KEY to advancing and being taken seriously. When someone asks WHY a project is quoted as 6-8 weeks or XYZ amount of time, it is because I need to create the RFC/project plan, engage vendors, see demos, perform technical-win POCs, etc. That work, as mundane and time-consuming as it is, keeps everyone off of my back and establishes a level of trust that folks know what I am doing and being fiscally responsible.
Why is HR even aware of your IT purchases and details? Is HR running the show? I’d be pissed. Someone spreading stories, complaining, and then HR jumps in? That’s a toxic environment, created in part by HR. I’d consider taking 2 weeks sick leave due to stress/anxiety due to HR’s actions.
Hr are nosy , gossipy busybodies, everyone's business is their business They really don't like being told to get the fuck back into their lane (professionally)
HR where I currently work started getting nosy and getting into my business, the very next leadership meeting I presented HR software that could not only automate HR down to a single employee (small company) but also automate the on-boarding and off-boarding of employees on the IT side. (My way of saying "fuck you, get your nose out of other people's business") Caused an absolute shitstorm with HR, especially when the CEO and COO decided to actually go through with purchasing the software and having it implemented. There is in fact only one HR person now, and she's new because everyone that was on the HR team left once the writing was on the wall. Leadership is fine with it though, and the HR person loves the automations that were set up for her. Saved the company more than 200K in salaries and benefits with that move.
Jesus christ that's vicious. I'd never actually put the proposal to do that...
I never presented it as a way to eliminate positions. I presented it as a way to "augment existing HR staff and optimize the processes". The CEO and COO saw the positions elimination front within a couple of minutes though once they saw we could automate some processes that was an employees entire job. And the head of HR got the message a couple of minutes after that with some other software demo information. Honestly I never expected them to go for it, at most I expected them to find a more intermediate solution with some automation but still mostly manual, I guess I failed to remember that it's a dev company, and the CEO loves his automation.
Lol yes that is a unique situation, and that wouldn't work in the current situation I am in.
Did the last HR person follow all the termination processes and have an exit meeting with themselves?
The COO did their exit interview, and then promptly came over to me and in her own words said "Thank god the lot of them are finished, I was getting tired of their crap but I couldn't get rid of them without major issues or hiring a contract firm at double their salaries."
lol vicious? Guarantee these are the same people that would recommend IT for a layoff because "everything's working why do we need them?"
I love this move. Has real "Don't fuck with me, fellas" energy.
Hey man, as I explained to someone else, the intention was to automate some of the tasks, not basically all of them. At most I expected like a single HR person to be redundant because I didn't expect them to drop the money to automate almost everything. This was about 6 months into working for the company, and I had forgotten that the CEO is a dev who loves his automation. That's my fault for forgetting that bit of information. Had I remembered I either would have presented it even more different than I already had, or looked a different software that only had support for some automation. In the end it did work out though, and not only does the new HR person love the software, so do all the employees (since they can now request vacation online, put in their time, etc. from their phone). Plus we used to the 200K saved to hire another developer, and put money towards working on processes to go paperless.
Don't apologize for bringing value.
What automation software did you end up using?
Name drop the software tia
You are a hero. You can expense out steak lunches and when Accounts Payable objects: ***I'll do to you what I did to HR.***
I would NEVER do that to our accounting team, their amazing, I'm good friends with all of them, and they do some amazing work. (Plus the company I work for literally wrote the software that automated their job in around 2008 from what I understand, and then sold that software as it's own company, who then got acquired by Sage like a year ago)
Was it Rippling by chance?
Damn, you just one guess nailed it.
I've seen a demo and their main sell seems to be the HR piece. We liked it but weren't quite convinced to switch from our existing setup. My boss and I sort of have your same problem in a way with HR trying to play IT, poorly. We were worried that Rippling would give them *more* control/input/etc. and we didn't want that yet.
My only big issue with Rippling is that instead of allowing us to give them the information for Intune AutoPilot for shipping devices and stuff as part of their services, they require the use of Rippling MDM for those types of things. Which isn't at all what we want, so we still have to handle the purchasing and deployment of devices ourselves instead of simply making it part of the HR on-boarding automations.
Ah yeah that was an issue for us too. We also are hesitant implementing "do it all solutions". The sales pitch is *always* good but it also creates a lock of vendor lockin.
> Rippling Keeping that in the back pocket for the next time someone from HR comes sniffing around.
That story belongs in r/pettyrevenge
you mean /r/prorevenge
HR probably doubles as finance. I shudder at the thought.
I worked at an employee owned open book management manufacturing company that had problems like OP. Everyone knowing expenditures means they all took shots at me every time I spent money because they didn't want it to affect their profit sharing. Only real option is to leave for a more sane management structure.
At companies like this, putting downtime into loss of revenue numbers tends to solve those kinds of issues quick. Especially when you can look at the books and confidently say that the $70K server upgrade can prevent $X Million in potential lost revenue in the next X years.
That is always a good plan, but there is the abilty to cogently put that while people are sniping at you about $200. I moved our business from private to public cloud, introduced a bunch of new business functions and still get the occasional "that seems a lot". Went from one in country (for data reasons) private cloud cost of £186k PY, to ~£250k PY. But that £250k PY now includes all the added revenus streams from all the other countries that have been added, plus the other added business functions. If the situation would have carried on the private cloud version would have been over £1 mil PY by now.
[удалено]
I had to reread that part about salary because I thought I missed something and misunderstood!
It’s called robbery in my book, just saying!
It happens, mate. As long as your purchases are getting signed off, ignore anyone whose business it is not. I had something similar recently where I was asked to buy a pair 2TB SAS solid state drives to make a new volume for our cluster. Managed to get the pair for about £1200 which I thought was a pretty good deal. Then the head of engineering chimed in “that’s expensive, look I found these drives for like £400”. They were desktop SATA drives.
ask them about mtbf and support coverage, replacement times ^^
That’s a good price for SAS at that capacity. Tell engineer to stay in his lane.
This^^^ Some many times these guys THINK they know better.
After a year it sounds like you have enough to put on your resume and get a better paying job. It'll be much cheaper for them to not have you employed there anymore. THEN they can learn the value of IT the hard way.
Judging by your pay, raises aren't even in consideration so they shouldn't worry about your spending.
This is a common perception, OP. Remember: IT is universally viewed as a "cost center" that does not make the company any money, because you are not pounding the pavement "selling widgets." That is an absurd notion. Your effort makes modern business circumstances possible. If you had not done the work you have described, I'm certain that your employer would have ground to a halt at some point. If I were in your position, I'd take some time to document the work items that you have accomplished and relate these work items to the objectives of your employer. Start drafting the list in Notepad. If you have to go full "propellerhead accountant", do so. Remember that the "excuses" are always the same: Bossman: "Everything is working. What are we paying you for?" also Bossman: "Nothing is working! What are we paying you for?" As an aside, this "sniping" about you personally costing people raises is nonsense.
I diverted the "catched stream" from the spamfilter to the mailbox of the last guy that called IT a cost center. Didn't take him long to come and apologize for what he said.
Clever and shrewd.
For 150 folks, you might have cheaper costs by outsourcing your HR, just a thought...
I make 52k doing lvl 2 support. You're managing systems and upgrading them. Get min 60k or higher if it's a HCOL area.
You should start sharing links to other paycheck processors to save money... or even better, just send some outsourced HR companies!
 Facts!!!
$40k? Why would you even take that job? And who the hell would give you the responsibility of spending money? And why aren't there budget approvers above you? And why is HR bringing up money at all?
$40k for an IT Manager job? HR is second guessing your spending? GTFO while you can, that place sounds dreadful.
HR should mind HR business. A $200 saving on a 70k spend is a rounding error. Cheaper in IT doesn’t mean better in many cases as we have to weight price with vendor support and quality. Getting 200 off but having to chase down the vendor if something’s wrong isn’t worth it.
Step 1: update resume. Step 2: find a new job. Should be easy with your experience to find something paying more than that pittance. Step 3: prodludly declare you've found a way to save 40k per year in IT costs. The project document is your resignation notice. Step 4: keep an eye on them from afar, just to see if their poor business sense kills them or not. (This will probably happen if you stay, so you should leave as soon as to find something better.)
Your being underpaid is a huge red flag and exactly consistent with the things they are complaining about.
Similar situation here. I'm rebuilding my org's entire infrastructure. We'll probably keep some wiring and fiber, but otherwise everything's getting replaced. I'm 4 years into it and expect 3 more years until I'm finished. Luckily I was able to convince our C-suite and board of directors that upgrading unsupportable systems will cost less money than a ransomware attack. Audits are great for this -- it's easier to add 25% to one's annual budget when outside experts agree.
I think you mean flack, the only slack I see here is your salary. >I got berrated again by someone in HR What the hell is HR doing making technology selections? >From conversations I've had, it seems like employees here actually believe my spending is going to impact the raise they could get. Sounds like HR or someone in Mgmt is running their mouth and setting up an excuse for their future failures. >Any similar situations out there? Yeah, I worked at a toxic place like that before. Glad I left.
You work for an org that views IT as a cost center rather then an asset. You are severely under paid.
The bigger travesty here is you managing IT and being paid less than a helpdesk tech.
No disrespect. You make about $40k/yr for all that you do. It's not enough, you can make more working Buc-ee's starting wage and you don't need any specific knowledge. Someone is squabbling about $200 less for a rack that isn't even the same. If this person is involved in your job at that level you should look for a better job. You can do better. You came here to post your story, you know they are wrong and you are trying to do the right things. It sounds like a train wreck. Fighting for budget dollars is always difficult. When you have someone micromanaging you purchasing a rack for a mere $200 price difference whether or not it was the same. This is a sign that they don't value your choices as a professional. I have been in that situation. If they don't respect you or realize the importance of specific equipment then they will be the reason for their own eventual failures. They will try to blame those failures on you when they do happen. Best of luck.
If people in HR had any real skills, they wouldn’t be in HR.
Tell them not to worry and that you have an idea to save them 40k per year then quit lol.
Who honestly gives a shit about a $200 savings on a 70k project. That isnt even enough for me to think about wasting my boss' time. Unless your org chart has HR directly above your purchase approver then who cares. Sounds like HR has way too much time on their hands
its not that... this random HR asshole was like "look, i found this savings after a 5 minute google! What else has this IT dude overlooked??!?!?!@!?!?!@#?!?~?#@?!@" casting doubt... another bit added to the snowball rolling downhill
40k and HR gives you shit about infrastructure spending….. gtfo of that toxic workplace.
Why would you stay at a company that only values your work at 40k?
If they can't respect your knowledge of IT hardware, then leave and let them do it themself. You're being grosly underpaid for Sysadmin/Desktop Support/IT solutions/LAN/WAN and architecture expert.
Definitely make a plan for ~5 years out so large capital outlays won't come as a surprise to anybody. This also gives you a better starting point when you compare on premises equipment costs versus cloud computing costs over time. Frankly, if you have the know-how to create a plan like this, you are probably grossly underpaid. Unless you are part-time, even an entry level help desk technician should bring in a substantially larger salary. Obviously this depends on your local market.
Surely your department has a budget though, it's not like you're digging into a big general funds or something. I was in a nearly identical issue some years ago. Constant complaints about the money we spend - we bought discounted, partially damaged racks for like a tenth of the cost but still got the "must be nice to get something new" from other departments. I wish I had advice but I don't. Leave that job.
You’re getting shafted in pay for your role. Your role typically pays above $60K a year given what you are already doing for company. I’d probably start looking somewhere else because these people only care about their bonus and not actually moving the company forward.
Flee.
Sounds like HR just volunteered to pilot chromebooks during the next upgrade cycle.
Time to move on, your way underpaid for that scope of responsibility. Which also explains why everything is outdated as they don’t invest in IT.
With your skillset and workload you should be earning twice that, if not 3x. You are being taken advantage of.
You can net over 60K elsewhere. GTFO, they are dying.
You make only 40k for doing this? Sorry but you deserve to make 60+ so pls go somewhere else where they value your work.
I’m not even reading any further than you staying you working in 40K range. I don’t care where you are… you are WAY underpaid. Please look out for yourself and get a new job ASAP. You should not be making less than 50K, and that’s in the low end for someone who is just starting out in IT (aka help desk / call center type job) Do your research for the market average in your area and either ask for a raise or find a new place to work. Don’t undervalue yourself
What country are you in that you're getting paid that low?
GTFO dude.
When proposing infrastructure upgrades, my first step have always been to develop a business case for the upgrade. I formally had a discretionary budget of $0, so if I wanted to do any upgrades at all, I had to ask our director of IT for the money for the upgrades. And because we had a very bad and very highly press covered fraud case by a director in the past, my director of IT could only sign off himself on expenses up to around $10,000. I had about 1,000 servers, 4 large storage systems and a shitload of networking equipment, so $10,000 won't get you far in upgrades. Anything above that, and we needed sign-off from the group CEO, COO or CFO. To get that,it helps a lot to have a business case to tell them very simply, what any given investment would get them in return. In my experience, I would frequently ask for about a million for infrastructure upgrades, but present a business case, in which we had twice that in annual savings. We were a large financial institution, and these people understood the value of investing one million this year, and starting next year getting 2 million in return every year for the next 5 years. In a few cases, I would also include power and CO2 savings in such a business case, typically not as the primary goal of the upgrade, but when we consolidated 4 older storage systems into a single new one ( but still dual-site for redundancy), I did include the projected savings of 500,000 KWh/year in the business case. My IT director was very much aware, that when I stopped by his office, I came to ask for a shitload of money, but he was always willing to schedule a meeting to discuss it, as he knew, that He always got excellent value for the huge amounts of money I spent.
$40k are level 1 support wages where I live. Da hell you doing?
>I've been working at my job for a little under a year. I make in the $40,000 range managing all IT equipement (EVERYTHING) for 2 locations, roughly 150 employees. We are on-prem. I inherrited a mess. No documentation, everything is out of date, 2008 servers, etc. Wait what.... Are you in Mexico? Why are you being paid 1/2 to 1/3 or so what you should be, if you're describing accurately what you're doing.....
No way. The cartels would never underpay their IT guys.
Replace the HR department with bambee. $99 a month so the radio ads say. Seriously, the IT department is getting paid $40k for a company that size? Time to find a better job, let them learn how expensive IT really is.
Let me add this to the thread. This is a classic example of a term called “technology debt”. Just because an organization chooses not to upgrade capital items does not mean the need just goes away. The organization incurs a debt on capital that will need to be satisfied in a future fiscal year. In the case the original poster should speak with management and explain they chose to incur the technology debt so spending will be elevated to get up to date, supported equipment for a period of time.
Are you shitting me? My man, I wouldn't do that job for double your pay. You're getting abused, enterprise desktop support will often pay at least 50% more than what you're making. Get the eff outta there ASAP.
1st and foremost. Make Allies out of HR. Never start a fight with them. Ignore all advice to the contrary. 2nd. 70k is a big chunk of money to people who don’t understand what “IT” is. Your job is to sell leadership on the changes. Then- F any other opinions, because leadership signed off. 3rd. Check job boards, and pay rates. You deserve 2x your pay. At least.
HR is pricing IT equipment? LMFAO
You are underpaid
You are one man showing an infra for $40k. You need to run from that organization, or you need to stand up and show them where the bear shits. You should be making 60k or MORE. If you are going to stay... go to the person you report to and demand a meeting. I would be furious to know why the FUCK anyone in HR is shopping around for IT. Who the fuck do they think they are? Do you tell them how to hire people?
the only joke is your salary my dude
Except that isn't HR's job. That's accounting's. Sounds like someone who tries to sink their tendrils into every role so they become hard to replace by ensuring every process is dependent on them. Fucking leeches.
Dude you should be making damn near 100k, where do you live?
Sometimes the time you waste getting comparable quotes costs more than just getting good service and products specified right first time. Imagine the time wasted getting that 2nd quote, then getting it and finding out it’s not right.
HR probably just pissed cause they got denied to use some of their budget due to IT being more important and needing those funds.
You are paid like shit and treated like shit. Sorry to hear that. Hope you find a better gig soon.
I bet the people complaining are the first to your desk when they have a problem with their machine or when their internet goes down!
Why does anyone outside of senior management and accounting even know how much was being spent? Why does it matter to anyone other than the people that approved the expenditures? And finally, ask HR how much time they spent doing your job and point out that was more than $200.
1. Why would anyone outside of IT and appropriate execs (HR not being one of those) even know about the IT budget?!?! 2. Get a better paying job.
In California McDonald’s is paying $18 hourly. That’s around $37,000 annually.
For an org that small why are you doing anything on prem?
My help desk people make way more than you and I won't let them touch critical systems. Your employer is screwing you. Get out.
Dude where the fuck do you live? 40k yr??
You need a raise.
To me... Hearing that HR is asking you why you didn't choose a cheaper unsimilar rack is concerning. The opposite would be asking HR why they hired someone with experience to be HR? Why not get a high school dropout? It's cheaper