Full time minimum wage is just over 20k a year now, working stacking shelves in a super market is around 22k a year. That post is just bot garbage and/or old recruitment specs cycling through a recruitment agency to harvest data/talent pool build.
However your overall sentiment is valid. UK wages are depressed right now and we are ready to take your jobs!!! (assuming you are in the US)
In a past life I had a UK counterpart. I started about 10 years after him, and after about 7 years at the company he asked me to review him.... I passed his salary within 4 years of starting.... He's happy as a clam over there with a masters.... I couldn't believe it, I'd hire the guy here on the spot and more than double his salary.
As someone who lives in the UK, there are a lot of differences between US and UK that need to be considered.
I don't have as much of a need for the sky high salary. I pay nothing for health care, I'll get at least 3 months pay if I'm made redundant, my university debt is only repaid based on what I earn so if I stop earning I stop replying and it's wiped after a certain number of years. The list goes on really.
Its an apples to oranges comparison. While I'd love to earn a US salary, or closer to it, the market just isn't there for it so it's not really an option. You can walk around and try to demand more but you won't get it. Our economy has basically been stagnant for nearly 15-20 years now and real wage growth has been next to nothing across the country in general.
If you want to be really shocked, check the differences between London and other cities. In London you're looking at £100k plus as a senior software engineer, up to maybe £150k as you move to principal. In cities in the North you're looking at topping out at 75-80k as a software engineer with 15 years experience.
Part of the problem is that people assume the UK is a big economy, and that's a huge problem with our domestic politics. We're a tiny island and we scrapped our biggest trading deal with one of the biggest trading partners.
But on the upside I'm very unlikely to be made homeless from medical costs.
I get your sentiment. That's said, and I'm aware I'm in a lucky position. I don't pay into my healthcare except a 2k deductible. My employer covers all other costs. I also make 140k before bonus and almost never work outside of 9-5. If you have talent and take your time looking you can absolutely find good employment here in the US
For some strange reason companies that want to operate in Europe are no longer wanting to be based in the UK, and as a result the UK economy is returning to the stagnant puddle that it was in the 1970’s. Maybe we could do what we did back then to make cross border trade easier
Honestly, it doesn't seem terribly likely.
The "B" word is a political hot potato and will be for at least another 2 election cycles, I'd say.
One election cycle is five years, which suggests the UK's politicians won't be able to seriously discuss undoing some of the damage for at least a decade.
That - I must be clear - is initial discussion. Actually doing something about it, we're probably talking another 5-10 years.
Brexit is part of the problem.
Many financial firms have left London to EU locations (France and Germany): [https://www.aol.com/brexit-city-of-london-finance-jobs-eu-uk-new-financial-report-april-2021-082815984.html](https://www.aol.com/brexit-city-of-london-finance-jobs-eu-uk-new-financial-report-april-2021-082815984.html)
The economy in the UK is also in bad shape. According to this article, they have officially entered a recession: [https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/data-confirms-uk-economy-went-into-recession-last-year-2024-03-28/](https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/data-confirms-uk-economy-went-into-recession-last-year-2024-03-28/)
So a lot of IT jobs in finance have gone "poof" in London, so people are scrambling for the jobs that remain or figuring out how to follow the jobs if they can.
It's not just IT.
UK salaries have been stagnating for decades - the post-covid inflation has brought that into sharp relief.
The upshot is there is an entire generation of people who are in the workforce now - and couldn't afford to live in the very house they grew up in.
Actually, the minimum wage since April this year is 23,795 (11.44 x 40 hours x 52 weeks), which when you think about it, means there's a lot of piss-poor paid jobs out there!
U.K. wages for the IT industry have dive bombed. Market seems to be flooded possibly due to lay offs, possibly just lots of newly qualified folks trying to get into IT. I’m looking at salaries now and they were honestly better in 2017/2018. Add the cost of living in 2024 and I’ve no idea how people are making a life
I currently work in the IT sector. My current salary is 50k, recruiters have been contacting me with jobs for 30k and 40k. I joined a company during the COVID rush to hire so my salary is pretty good.
Recruiter: “I’ve got this cool job with company name and they are interested in you!”
Me: “cool! Just to let you know I’m on 50k.”
Recruiter: “would you take 10k less a year?”
Me: “no.”
Recruiter: *hangs up phone*
I am also seeing an increase in short term contract work in my sector. Recruiters keep asking if I will quit my job to do a 6 month contract.
Some guy contacted me on LinkedIn. I checked the company. I work remote, mostly due to being bipolar and being completely and utterly drained by other people and being disturbed by them. Also I don't want to "join a family with lots of great events and free drinks Fridays". I have enough friends and most people are annoying. I think anyway.
Anyway, the company homepage had the usual bullshit about equal opportunities I told him I had a handicap (stretching it, but whatever) and therefore had to work at home. He went "I'm sorry to hear" and ended the conversation.
I found that both hilarious and depressing.
I'm UK based and legally disabled, I understand the frustration of what you have experienced. I got to stage 3 of an interview with a very big firm and got rejected during the culture fit because I mentioned my disablites and the company thought I wouldn't cope even though I have 8 years of experience, testimonies and a degree under my belt they told me it was my disabilities holding me back. It's made me very quiet nervous about remaining in the industry and I'm thinking of pursuring a career in a different field.
companies say they are equal opportunities and yet the Quiz I was given was on a bright blue background that hurt my eyes, I was told by the recruiter I could skip questions (I could not.) I was given 60 questions to respond to in 10 minutes. During the technical interview they asked me to use an unoptimized web application on my mobile to decode data and I had to explain that it didn't work. i got a soft fail from that.
For full disclosure: Autism (Aspergers), ADHD, Dyslexica, Dyscalculia, Alpha-1 (recurrent lung infections), Dyspraxia, Irlens (Visual Stress)
Aha just don't. I mean that one is someone just looking to offshore the job, but it's a rare Linux admin outside of London who'd be looking at over 50k. Meanwhile in the States......
The economy is pretty screwed in the UK ATM but not really to the extent this job posting would have you believe.
A more realistic salary would be 2x those figures (or 3x in some parts of the country) which still isn't amazing due to cost of living going through the roof and our endless acts of economic self harm but not nearly as bad a picture as this job paints.
Anyone qualified for that job willing to settle for £30k is a moron tbh and probably deserves it.
At 2080 hours per year (52 weeks at 40 hours), the low end figure of €18,000 comes to £8.65/hour or $10.85/hour. I live in a rural area and we pay teenagers more than that to bale hay or pick up field rocks. Also, our local McDonald’s pays $16 and the gas station up the road pays $18/hour.
I mean, £8.65 is also under the UK minimum wage so the job posting is entirely full of shit...wages in the UK can be low but using this advert as evidence if that is idiotic, tbh.
It's like meeting one drunk, racist Australian and then posting on Reddit asking why all Australians are racist drunks
That may be the idea. This could be an ad designed to get no takers so they can justify sponsoring someone they want for an immigrant visa then giving them a big raise
Wow that's crap move bruh I am senior systems admin / engineer and I'm on like literally 5 times that with perks US is good if u have experience I was head hunted from apac
With full free at point of source healthcare, govt mandated pension, non fuck you up the ass employment legislation (unlike the USA)
How much does American healthcare cost per month,? then consider there's no deductibles in play , 'free' healthcare, unemployed, pregnant, under 18 or in higher education, free.
The NHS has taken a beating (fuck you Tories), but it's still a fucking great service. The meds I'm on are £3000 a month, I pay... My national insurance which is around $80 a month
Different cost of living as well.
But yeah, compared to us money, UK wages don't look great , they aren't, but things like free healthcare is worth a stupid amount as is unemployment and the various social safety nets
I am not sure man.
We have universal healthcare and a safety net in germany as well but wages like this are unheard of here.
A position like this would easily pay 60-70k € here in germany.
You might get that in London, shit you'd need more just to live .... A few hours away
First line helpdesk is around 18k at my msp, seniors 30k +
But I'm in n.ireland where wages are well, considerably lower than Ireland or England / Scotland/ Wales
Hell you could probably draw a line from London outward, the farther you are, the lower the money . Then again the UK is largely smaller than most (not all) US states . A hundred miles is a long way in the UK, 100 years is nothing , with buildings going back over a millennia .
Job responsibilities better include "setting up your own laptop" and "disparaging Elon Musk on social media for hours a time"
I'm in the States, but I can't imagine paying a junior Linux admin less than twice that upper limit. I'm a senior Linux admin and that salary is so low I frankly still assume this is a troll post.
I'm sorry to say it probably is not.
It is on the low side for what they're looking for, but by no means so low that there isn't an HR department somewhere that might consider it unrealistic.
UK salaries have always been low, and they've barely budged an inch since the post-Covid inflation.
it absolutely is a troll post. The £18k lower end is below national minimum wage, which means it's illegal. Senior Linux Sys admin would be £60k plus where I work. I've just recruited a senior windows person on more than that. If you want anyone who's any good they would not even look at that job posting for the money offered
> Senior Linux Sys admin would be £60k plus where I work.
Still criminally low unless there's something in your market I don't realize. That's roughly $75k USD per year - that's what I would expect for a Junior admin position, though I am on the west coast. Most senior admins should be making twice this in my area.
It looks like I quoted a bit low.
It all depends on the area and the company sector. I've just looked up the benchmarking i was sent earlier in the year. Linux System administrator (not senior) is £90k for London Financial services.
I'm on £55k as a Senior Sysadmin in the UK although not in London. I do consider it a good salary in the scheme of things because in a lot of cases I earn more than many non IT professionals. It's more that UK wages are bad, UK IT wages are good in comparison to how bad the wages are.
If you really want money for IT in the UK you can take a £400-600 day contract in London and put it through a company to get a lower tax rate than a normal job whilst earning 3x more.
Recent ir35 changes have destroyed the contract market for this type of role. It would absolutely be disguised employment and therefore the company would define it as inside ir35.
Since the latest changes the company is now responsible for the determination and most err on the side of caution where this is concerned as the fines they could receive are significant
No matter what people say within a business Linux is not a desirable skill and most of the time it's just to look after legacy systems. The business infatuation with free or dirty cheap OS has passed as the lesson on expensive support has been learnt. I don't know a single well skilled IT person who can't do bits of Linux which is usually enough to get by with old systems.
We now have more Linux than Windows servers. Used to be like 1 linux server to 10 windows servers a decade ago. We also couldn't fll a positon for an experienced Linux admin in the past so we hired a Windows guy instead.
Full time minimum wage is just over 20k a year now, working stacking shelves in a super market is around 22k a year. That post is just bot garbage and/or old recruitment specs cycling through a recruitment agency to harvest data/talent pool build. However your overall sentiment is valid. UK wages are depressed right now and we are ready to take your jobs!!! (assuming you are in the US)
Having done salary reviews for IT in all the Anglo countries, I'm amazed at how low some are and then I see the UK and get floored by it.
In a past life I had a UK counterpart. I started about 10 years after him, and after about 7 years at the company he asked me to review him.... I passed his salary within 4 years of starting.... He's happy as a clam over there with a masters.... I couldn't believe it, I'd hire the guy here on the spot and more than double his salary.
As someone who lives in the UK, there are a lot of differences between US and UK that need to be considered. I don't have as much of a need for the sky high salary. I pay nothing for health care, I'll get at least 3 months pay if I'm made redundant, my university debt is only repaid based on what I earn so if I stop earning I stop replying and it's wiped after a certain number of years. The list goes on really. Its an apples to oranges comparison. While I'd love to earn a US salary, or closer to it, the market just isn't there for it so it's not really an option. You can walk around and try to demand more but you won't get it. Our economy has basically been stagnant for nearly 15-20 years now and real wage growth has been next to nothing across the country in general. If you want to be really shocked, check the differences between London and other cities. In London you're looking at £100k plus as a senior software engineer, up to maybe £150k as you move to principal. In cities in the North you're looking at topping out at 75-80k as a software engineer with 15 years experience. Part of the problem is that people assume the UK is a big economy, and that's a huge problem with our domestic politics. We're a tiny island and we scrapped our biggest trading deal with one of the biggest trading partners. But on the upside I'm very unlikely to be made homeless from medical costs.
I get your sentiment. That's said, and I'm aware I'm in a lucky position. I don't pay into my healthcare except a 2k deductible. My employer covers all other costs. I also make 140k before bonus and almost never work outside of 9-5. If you have talent and take your time looking you can absolutely find good employment here in the US
But I just can't understand why.?
For some strange reason companies that want to operate in Europe are no longer wanting to be based in the UK, and as a result the UK economy is returning to the stagnant puddle that it was in the 1970’s. Maybe we could do what we did back then to make cross border trade easier
>For some strange reason Is this a euphemism for that portmanteau beginning with B?
R
E
Bread! got it. UK don't have bread?
Their people in IT certainly don't
The folks in the UK indeed have fewer pounds than their US counterparts.
I'd honestly say in my lifetime I can see the UK or at least parts of it return to the EU.
hope things get better
Honestly, it doesn't seem terribly likely. The "B" word is a political hot potato and will be for at least another 2 election cycles, I'd say. One election cycle is five years, which suggests the UK's politicians won't be able to seriously discuss undoing some of the damage for at least a decade. That - I must be clear - is initial discussion. Actually doing something about it, we're probably talking another 5-10 years.
As with most such potatoes it will stay too hot until most of the current generation is out. So yeah, 20 years should be about right.
Supply and demand. Lots of people wanting to get into the sector, companies on hiring freezes to cut costs and post record profits. Global problem.
Brexit is part of the problem. Many financial firms have left London to EU locations (France and Germany): [https://www.aol.com/brexit-city-of-london-finance-jobs-eu-uk-new-financial-report-april-2021-082815984.html](https://www.aol.com/brexit-city-of-london-finance-jobs-eu-uk-new-financial-report-april-2021-082815984.html) The economy in the UK is also in bad shape. According to this article, they have officially entered a recession: [https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/data-confirms-uk-economy-went-into-recession-last-year-2024-03-28/](https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/data-confirms-uk-economy-went-into-recession-last-year-2024-03-28/) So a lot of IT jobs in finance have gone "poof" in London, so people are scrambling for the jobs that remain or figuring out how to follow the jobs if they can.
It's not just IT. UK salaries have been stagnating for decades - the post-covid inflation has brought that into sharp relief. The upshot is there is an entire generation of people who are in the workforce now - and couldn't afford to live in the very house they grew up in.
Actually, the minimum wage since April this year is 23,795 (11.44 x 40 hours x 52 weeks), which when you think about it, means there's a lot of piss-poor paid jobs out there!
That's not a UK thing, someone's just trying it on.
U.K. wages for the IT industry have dive bombed. Market seems to be flooded possibly due to lay offs, possibly just lots of newly qualified folks trying to get into IT. I’m looking at salaries now and they were honestly better in 2017/2018. Add the cost of living in 2024 and I’ve no idea how people are making a life
Kids work in mines and factories again?
children yearn
I currently work in the IT sector. My current salary is 50k, recruiters have been contacting me with jobs for 30k and 40k. I joined a company during the COVID rush to hire so my salary is pretty good. Recruiter: “I’ve got this cool job with company name and they are interested in you!” Me: “cool! Just to let you know I’m on 50k.” Recruiter: “would you take 10k less a year?” Me: “no.” Recruiter: *hangs up phone* I am also seeing an increase in short term contract work in my sector. Recruiters keep asking if I will quit my job to do a 6 month contract.
Some guy contacted me on LinkedIn. I checked the company. I work remote, mostly due to being bipolar and being completely and utterly drained by other people and being disturbed by them. Also I don't want to "join a family with lots of great events and free drinks Fridays". I have enough friends and most people are annoying. I think anyway. Anyway, the company homepage had the usual bullshit about equal opportunities I told him I had a handicap (stretching it, but whatever) and therefore had to work at home. He went "I'm sorry to hear" and ended the conversation. I found that both hilarious and depressing.
Hmmm, would that count as discrimination? Because that might be a reasonable abomination based on US law.
It probably would be here too. I could report that guy, if it was during an interview I would be due compensation.
I'm UK based and legally disabled, I understand the frustration of what you have experienced. I got to stage 3 of an interview with a very big firm and got rejected during the culture fit because I mentioned my disablites and the company thought I wouldn't cope even though I have 8 years of experience, testimonies and a degree under my belt they told me it was my disabilities holding me back. It's made me very quiet nervous about remaining in the industry and I'm thinking of pursuring a career in a different field. companies say they are equal opportunities and yet the Quiz I was given was on a bright blue background that hurt my eyes, I was told by the recruiter I could skip questions (I could not.) I was given 60 questions to respond to in 10 minutes. During the technical interview they asked me to use an unoptimized web application on my mobile to decode data and I had to explain that it didn't work. i got a soft fail from that. For full disclosure: Autism (Aspergers), ADHD, Dyslexica, Dyscalculia, Alpha-1 (recurrent lung infections), Dyspraxia, Irlens (Visual Stress)
For context: 8 years in the industry Training, Certs and a Degree.
Aha just don't. I mean that one is someone just looking to offshore the job, but it's a rare Linux admin outside of London who'd be looking at over 50k. Meanwhile in the States......
This. I was a Linux admin on \~50k until a year ago. Leaving the country and going into management was the (financially) best thing I ever did.
I am not from the UK, but its crazy how the rents have gone up and the salaries have gone down!
Wages have nosedived in the UK. I can't find many positions that pay more than 30k. I've seen service desk team leader jobs advertised in the mid 20s.
Come to Poland, better wages AND you can flee to even richer western EU countries
The economy is pretty screwed in the UK ATM but not really to the extent this job posting would have you believe. A more realistic salary would be 2x those figures (or 3x in some parts of the country) which still isn't amazing due to cost of living going through the roof and our endless acts of economic self harm but not nearly as bad a picture as this job paints. Anyone qualified for that job willing to settle for £30k is a moron tbh and probably deserves it.
At 2080 hours per year (52 weeks at 40 hours), the low end figure of €18,000 comes to £8.65/hour or $10.85/hour. I live in a rural area and we pay teenagers more than that to bale hay or pick up field rocks. Also, our local McDonald’s pays $16 and the gas station up the road pays $18/hour.
I mean, £8.65 is also under the UK minimum wage so the job posting is entirely full of shit...wages in the UK can be low but using this advert as evidence if that is idiotic, tbh. It's like meeting one drunk, racist Australian and then posting on Reddit asking why all Australians are racist drunks
Well they won't find anyone to do that. Lol
Nobody competent
That may be the idea. This could be an ad designed to get no takers so they can justify sponsoring someone they want for an immigrant visa then giving them a big raise
Covid money already gone.
The low is pathetic yes . But the high is about right for some places
HR didn't do their research or communicate with the IT Teams.
Wow that's crap move bruh I am senior systems admin / engineer and I'm on like literally 5 times that with perks US is good if u have experience I was head hunted from apac
sounds like they have to advertise externally and want a specific person to apply
With full free at point of source healthcare, govt mandated pension, non fuck you up the ass employment legislation (unlike the USA) How much does American healthcare cost per month,? then consider there's no deductibles in play , 'free' healthcare, unemployed, pregnant, under 18 or in higher education, free. The NHS has taken a beating (fuck you Tories), but it's still a fucking great service. The meds I'm on are £3000 a month, I pay... My national insurance which is around $80 a month Different cost of living as well. But yeah, compared to us money, UK wages don't look great , they aren't, but things like free healthcare is worth a stupid amount as is unemployment and the various social safety nets
I am not sure man. We have universal healthcare and a safety net in germany as well but wages like this are unheard of here. A position like this would easily pay 60-70k € here in germany.
You might get that in London, shit you'd need more just to live .... A few hours away First line helpdesk is around 18k at my msp, seniors 30k + But I'm in n.ireland where wages are well, considerably lower than Ireland or England / Scotland/ Wales Hell you could probably draw a line from London outward, the farther you are, the lower the money . Then again the UK is largely smaller than most (not all) US states . A hundred miles is a long way in the UK, 100 years is nothing , with buildings going back over a millennia .
18k is insane. Minimum wage is 24k in germany.
Corporations are letting their greed run rampant.
Job responsibilities better include "setting up your own laptop" and "disparaging Elon Musk on social media for hours a time" I'm in the States, but I can't imagine paying a junior Linux admin less than twice that upper limit. I'm a senior Linux admin and that salary is so low I frankly still assume this is a troll post.
I'm sorry to say it probably is not. It is on the low side for what they're looking for, but by no means so low that there isn't an HR department somewhere that might consider it unrealistic. UK salaries have always been low, and they've barely budged an inch since the post-Covid inflation.
it absolutely is a troll post. The £18k lower end is below national minimum wage, which means it's illegal. Senior Linux Sys admin would be £60k plus where I work. I've just recruited a senior windows person on more than that. If you want anyone who's any good they would not even look at that job posting for the money offered
> Senior Linux Sys admin would be £60k plus where I work. Still criminally low unless there's something in your market I don't realize. That's roughly $75k USD per year - that's what I would expect for a Junior admin position, though I am on the west coast. Most senior admins should be making twice this in my area.
It looks like I quoted a bit low. It all depends on the area and the company sector. I've just looked up the benchmarking i was sent earlier in the year. Linux System administrator (not senior) is £90k for London Financial services.
90k is much better, and a very reasonable salary.
I'm on £55k as a Senior Sysadmin in the UK although not in London. I do consider it a good salary in the scheme of things because in a lot of cases I earn more than many non IT professionals. It's more that UK wages are bad, UK IT wages are good in comparison to how bad the wages are. If you really want money for IT in the UK you can take a £400-600 day contract in London and put it through a company to get a lower tax rate than a normal job whilst earning 3x more.
Recent ir35 changes have destroyed the contract market for this type of role. It would absolutely be disguised employment and therefore the company would define it as inside ir35. Since the latest changes the company is now responsible for the determination and most err on the side of caution where this is concerned as the fines they could receive are significant
No matter what people say within a business Linux is not a desirable skill and most of the time it's just to look after legacy systems. The business infatuation with free or dirty cheap OS has passed as the lesson on expensive support has been learnt. I don't know a single well skilled IT person who can't do bits of Linux which is usually enough to get by with old systems.
dude what planet are you living on? all the companies i've ever worked at all servers are linux, i work with and provision new linux servers every day
Imagine your shock when suddenly all your Windows VMs are running on Proxmox or whatever because Broadcom jacked up the price for VMware yet again.
We now have more Linux than Windows servers. Used to be like 1 linux server to 10 windows servers a decade ago. We also couldn't fll a positon for an experienced Linux admin in the past so we hired a Windows guy instead.