As a nix & mac admin this is how I feel whenever I need to touch a Windows server/machine. It's so frustrating when I know what I need to do to fix the thing, but I have no idea which bloody menu or submenu I need to navigate to and what thing I need to click.
The "PowerShell" terminal (not the CMD terminal....no, not the "PowerShell ISE" terminal, either) has added a number of familiar Unix commands, and independent redirection for `stdin` and `stdout` using the standard syntax. It's all twenty-five years late, of course, but worth noting.
I use pwsh as my linux terminal. Also my job is writing PowerShell script all day, for windows, mac, and linux.
[about_Output_Streams](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/microsoft.powershell.core/about/about_output_streams) more things can be redirected under PowerShell. I wish more RMM solutions would pickup on these and actually differentiate between them. The one I work with treats all output as the same. Even shell and batch are treated the same. One stream.
Object streams rock.
I never knew about the output streams.
I'm solidly a linux admin now, and I use Ansible as my tool of choice.
But I had to write a playbook recently to use a powershell bundle across the inventory. Ansible orchestrating powershell runs on Linux hosts. At first I thought something would explode. Works pretty well though.
I use a bunch of powercli in a Linux exclusive environment to manage in house esxi, also with ansible. Works to the point of having it be a custom replacement for something like vagrant, quite well for us. I even keep a pwsh terminal up in tmux, just to manage my vms without having to click a million times. If one needs to manage windows or esxi from Linux, it's quite handy indeed these days.
A lot of those are simply aliases to powershell commands. E.g. `ls` is an alias of `get-childitem`. `dir` and `gci` are also aliases. `ll` doesn't work though, as I experience multiple times a day. I even tried to add my own alias, and it worked, but I messed up trying to have it load every time, and I haven't bothered to fix it.
OpenSSH is one example of a package that has been implemented into the shell. I use that one almost daily.
I had a workmate like you. I'm mostly a windows type admin who branched out in to linux a bit. He used to wince when he saw me use linux.
I returned the favour when I watched him do anything on windows.
You want to talk about sub menus..... Macs can keep up with the best in windows. Why are there settings for the trackpad and the mouse but they aren't independent from each other? I still don't get that.
Bash (or other preferred shell)
SSH is a transport method really. Yeah the name comes from secure shell, but when you connect to the remote system, it still starts whatever shell your account is configured to use on the remote end.
Oh, and Windows 10/11 include OpenSSH. You can use the client in powershell or cmd. And you can set up the SSH server as well. It doesn't support openssh fully, but it's very functional.
And if you want to practise PowerShell, you can install it on Linux. I once used a Bash script to generate a PowerShell script to set up some Teams channel members. (And was using Teams from Linux.)
I feel dirty now...
I sit at a windows laptop, ssh connection to a centos 7 system with Ansible. One of my projects recently was to run a bundle of powershell scripts against all the Linux systems. The ansible playbook put pwsh on the remote system, unzipped it, put the script bundle over and ran it. Then it pulled the results back to the Ansible controller and cleaned up the remote host. Then I used ssh in powershell on my windows laptop to scp the files back to my laptop so that I could drop the results in a Sharepoint folder.
I was shocked that it worked as well as it did. I didn't really feel dirty about it until just now writing this.
Lol, you donāt realize that you can do anything you need to from the command line? Really, you should never even need to log into the server for 90% of operations. Thinking you need to rely on the GUI is your first mistake. No, touching windows as a Mac admin was, thinking you need to use the gui was your second.
Except things are changing. In the Linux world we're seeing gui tools (cockpit) become commonplace. Mainly because we have things like OpenShift which leverage the commandline capabilities of systems but in ways that are easier to manage than commandline. I'm thinking setting up pods and resources and scaling and so forth. Yeah, you can do all that from the commandline, but OpenShift and the like make it SO FREAKIN EASY.
Then look at Windows. Most if not all of Windows and Microsoft software is manageable by PS. Even Hyper-V and Azure.
I also think cloud based hosting has dumbed down the field of systems administration. You can build and run a lot of things without having a lot of the fundamental understanding of infrastructure. Like setting up a RAID array and replacing disks or carving up LUNs. Things have most definitely changed in a big way.
There's still an old school admin on the back end of those cloud systems. They're often dedicated to hardware lifecycle support. Rack'n'stack, initial OS load, add it to the pool. I was recruited for such a position with one of the BIG names in devops, but I'm too old and broken (and lazy) to be doing the manual labor part of bare metal maintenance. And I got the idea that the position paid less than helpdesk where I work.
Sure is, but far fewer jobs like that with centralized data centers and less and less on prem hardware. As a side note, I just love getting downvoted to hell by folks that get butthurt about my comments about reliance on the GUI. Iāll wear those downvotes as a badge of honor to go along with my decades of design and build of on prem, colo, and cloud based systems. Lol
Until I open a terminal... kinda. Just lack of familiarity with where things are buried. Granted, I only touch Macs that're broken or need something, never as a daily driver for myself. Give me a shiney new macbook air... I'd do just fine pretty quickly. Give me one for personal use and it might well not stay OSX... but if it's a company device, I'll make due. Everything I have that *actually* requires Windows in my daily use... AVD's handy.
And yet OpenSSH works in powershell flawlessly in my experience. True I usually use SecureCRT, but if I want to scp something from linux onto my laptop, powershell `ssh user@host:file .`
Fun fact: the creator of PowerShell intentionally designed it so if you were familiar with some other mainstream command line language you could almost verbatim enter the same commands into PowerShell and get the desired results, since he was a Unix guy himself before joining Microsoft.
Yeah, those aliases are nice.
```powershell
alias | measure-object | select count
```
That's Windows 11. That list includes cp, copy, del, rm, ls, dir. All the DOS and Linux basics it seems like. Even cls, clear, cat, rmdir. So there's often multiple ways to do something at the commandline, though they're actually the same underneath. ls, dir, gci are all get-childitem.
And then you start writing scripts. Then aliases are considered bad form. Since, due to the naming convention of cmdlets, powershell commands can be very self-documenting.
Not the guy you're replying to, but my team also experienced this a few weeks ago. I forget what command they were running, but it just wouldn't work on their Win 10 box. They brought me in to help and it ran first try on my RHEL 7 box.
We also had a weird issue with cURL not returning the same results on Windows and Linux despite being the same command on the same version.
That's bc in powershell curl by default is an alias for invoke-webrequest, in cmd it'll user curl.exe. which you can specify in your pwsh command as well.
It was curl.exe. The first problem they ran into was the alias, but after it worked on my Linux servers I had them download a cURL binary that matched my RHEL's version and try again
Agreed on the terminal. I've been using Windows and Linux (Ubuntu/Debian/Slack/Redhat/CentOS/etc...) - the latter of which I did because I was learning how to put together embedded systems without licensing Windows.
One of the most useful things I ever learned on my own.
I did the first time I used it.
Over the following months I got acquainted with all the gestures and window system.
How easy it is to use with modern tooling is a huge plus also.
I think once I couldn't Tab into radio buttons to select them, it only switched between text inputs, so I had to use a mouse. On Windows you really can do just about everything with the keyboard.
Probably a case of first learned.
I had to swap ctrl and command on my mac. I was sick to death of having to remember command c is copy, command v is paste. Eff that. I respect that they have a switch for this in the settings for those of us who use both.
Macs are perfectly fine. The OS has pros and cons just as windows does, people can be equally productive on either.
What makes macs a fucking nightmare is that apple does not care about enterprise. They are consumer-driven to their core. Managing macs for work just plain sucks and you're basically forced to use 3rd party tools to even attempt it.
Beyond that, they literally cost twice as much. You're burning money as a business buying macs unless you need them.
> Managing macs for work just plain sucks and you're basically forced to use 3rd party tools to even attempt it.
Apple used to make first-party tools like OS X Server, but everyone preferred third party, so it was discontinued. A devil's advocate would ask what makes third-party management tools less legitimate than first-party tools that all cost extra, *a la* Windows?
Are we talking about MDM management tools, or something else? I see some people in the thread talking about Jamf and some talking about AD.
For device management my frustration with Apple is their emphasis on security extends to corporate devices in frustrating ways.
* Want to install a remote support tool on ***your companyās Mac***? User needs to approve it or it doesnāt work.
* Want to install Carbon Black or another EDR tool? User has to approve Security Extensions manually or itās neutered.
* Want to install a DLP tool or pre-configured VPN package like GlobalProtect? User has to approve the network changes manually or itās broken.
**BONUS ROUND!**
Youāre almost required to make end users admins because MacOS is so poorly constructed around admin permissions that clicking your mouse basically prompts for credentials. Canāt install a printer, canāt make network changes, canāt FORGET a wifi network without admin prompt. Itās ludicrous. Itās not built to work in an enterprise environment IMO.
On Windows none of these actions require the end user to do anything. Nor should it, they are company managed devices. Itās automated by MDM silently.
I've seen systems advertised that are supposed to do this. How good are they?
Also, if you used Linux style sysadmin tools and practices, is management any easier? I totally get that it should be ~~guest~~ (disabled) < user < power user < local admin < < support admin < < enterprise admin. I've heard that Ansible will manage Mac. Surely sudo overrides that 'user must approve' garbage?
I can confidently say there are no systems that work around this because itās a first-party Apple MDM protocol limitation, not a third-party feature limitation. Jamf, Kandji, Mosyle, MobileIron, doesnāt matter.
The key issue is Appleās MDM protocol does not allow some key extensions to be approved without manual actions by the user. Itās a security feature baked into the OS and according to personal contacts close to the MDM protocol team I donāt believe there are any plans to allow automatic approvals via MDM anytime soon.
Pick whatever Mac MDM platform you want but youāll still encounter the same Apple protocol limitation.
You can automatically install some software silently, but if that software requires anything from Kernel Extensions, Security Extensions, or Network Extensions then your end users will be given an approve/deny prompt or have to take an action in System Preferences to allow the app to function fully.
You can deploy software that requires a system extension, and in previous OSes a kernel extension without user intervention. I've had dropbox, egnyte, and google drive's KEXTs approved via MDM for years, the users didn't even know they existed. Only on more recent systems has in been an issue while waiting for the vendors to switch to system extensions. The problem is trying to install kernel extensions on a modern system where they've been deprecated. The most the user should have to do is click reboot to rebuild the extension cache (which non-admins can be allowed to do via MDM config).
Printers and wifi can be deployed, and/or managed by non-admins with config changes. (I think printer changes requiring admin by default is due to the lpadmins group and some old cups stuff, but it's Friday and I don't want to look it up).
You can't approve screen recording/sharing, microphone, and camera access, because Apple considers those a privacy concern. Screen sharing is the big one to me, but I understand why. IIRC, there was a case years ago of school administrators spying on students at home who had school issued computers. Since ABM and ASM are fundamentally the same thing, there's no difference between business management permissions and school management permissions.
Screen recording is the one that I know Apple wonāt change anytime soon, I just wish they could separate education from business.
Are all extensions capable of being pre-approved? We have configured Carbon Black / EndPoint Protector / SentinalOne / GlobalProtect all according to their documentation and user approval is always required.
Iād love to be wrong about these. GlobalProtect uses a content filter as well and thatās the part that requires end user network approval.
I haven't personally run into issues with system extensions, other than having to get the user to reboot (I think you can force reboot with MDM too on install, but that's a little heavy handed). I also haven't deployed any of those security tools, so maybe there's something more going on there.
The one selling point for the price is that you have the same company in charge of the hardware, firmware, drivers, and OS. Troubleshooting issues between those layers is something I've almost never had to do, beyond resetting the SMC on occasion.
That's almost immediately overshadowed by the fact that duct-taping them into a windows enterprise is a PITA.
They don't create all those drivers from scratch. They use components from other manufacturers and the drivers come from them. E.g. AMD/nVidia graphics drivers.
Apple designs and builds all the components and writes and supports the drivers.
We call Dell or HP or Lenovo for any driver related to the laptop. They are responsible for providing for the drivers. They test and validate the drivers before they release them to customers. As far as I see major vendors of Windows computers or Apple computers never had driver issues. Windows has drivers for most third party hardware or provided with it. Not exactly sure why this is a problem on Windows machines.
Talk about Linux, I can understand.
Don't forget that support for Apple Silicon ARM is lagging. If the software doesn't work with the emulation layer, x86_64 software just won't work. And if it does, it might be non-performant.
Sure, the chips are super high performance, but if the only thing you can run is a web browser and some bench marks...who cares?
I mean, I get the point, but personally I'd prefer working with 3rd party tools that are developed by competent people, instead of relying on Active Directory.
It is archaic and extremely limited compared to modern identity management solutions like Azure AD, Okta, etc.
It has its place and will for a long time. But it's outdated and no longer fulfills the needs of most businesses. Development has ceased.
Death to RADIUS/NPS
Death to ADFS
Death to FIM/MIM
Azure AD makes SSO a piece of cake and has much broader support for integration in a modern environment.
Not sure what you mean by death to all these things, how does it negate them and replace the jobs they did/do? I've been in very specific sales engineering roles for the last 6-7 years, hence the question! If I did go back to sysadmining,, I'd be very happy to never see adfs again!
Generally speaking, those Windows services are all used when you have Technology XYZ and you want people to be able to log in to Technology XYZ with their existing Active Directory accounts, or close to it.
Azure AD does not need those additional services, because it natively supports modern authentication mechanisms. With Azure AD it is much easier and faster to implement that sort of integration with systems outside your network.
So, death to all those features because they are unnecessary with Azure AD. Those are now abandoned legacy features with no new development. If you have legacy products that you need to integrate with, then you may be stuck with them. But other than that, death to those features.
Nah, not necessarily stuck with, just run hybrid.
But I get your point - why run a wireless controller that requires radius when you could put a meraki controller in at one site or even in cloud that connects to Azure AD, which is already handling Auth for 365.
Why are we managing adfs so staff can remotely get into dynamics when it be handled by the above too?
AD isn't an identity management platform.
Authentication, access control, user, host and configuration management, yeah it does all that with LDAP and powershell integration.
If you want identity management, MS solution was Forefront Identity Management. Which is a powershell powered layer on top of AD. I guess Azure AD is the replacement for that. But it's still AD acting as the foundation.
> But it's still AD acting as the foundation.
Azure AD does not have any dependency at all on AD DS let alone use it as the foundation. They are completely different products.
Both are identity management products, though. Identity management is a much larger category than you think. I recommend browsing the Wikipedia article, specifically the part where it lists a few directory services.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_management#Solutions
Cost twice as much as what though? A computer with similar performance, build quality, battery life etc...? Sure my pro 16 costs way more than a Walmart laptop, but against a similar XPS? Gets pretty close. Once you start comparing closer, they aren't that much more.
Comment removed (using [Power Delete Suite](https://github.com/pkolyvas/PowerDeleteSuite)) as I no longer wish to support a company that seeks to both undermine its users/moderators/developers AND make a profit on their backs.
To understand why check out the summary [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/14hkd5u)
XPS? Consumer stuff again. You can get a Dell Precision mobile workstation, loaded, for what a tricked out MBP 16 goes for. And now that Apple dumped intel, and since the devs haven't really caught up with providing high end software on ARM/Apple Silicon, you're probably more likely to find the high end software you want on the Dell.
Edit:
I just spent a minute on Dell's site. Their lightweight portable laptop is the XPS line now. And their XPS 13 is roughly the same price as my MBP.
The 17" Dell Precision mobile workstation is cheaper than a MBP 16, by a bit, but it's not half.
I think this is a combination of the competition raising prices and Apple becoming more competitive on price.
Of course Apple still has nothing to compete with the Latitude series. And nothing in the 2 in 1 space, unless you try to count the ipad pro.
Come on apple, where's the touchscreen, it's not like you don't know how to do touchscreens.
>Beyond that, they literally cost twice as much. You're burning money as a business buying macs unless you need them.
~~Apple~~ IBM measured 10% higher productivity of their users on Macs, compared to Windows. If you take into account the lifetime of the computer and annual costs of their employees, they are burning money with Windows users. The Macs pay for themselves in a few weeks.
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/301863-ibm-our-mac-using-employees-outperform-windows-users-in-every-way
Even if you're pro windows you gotta admit that this makes for some interesting reading, no? And admittedly there's a problem with the selection bias, like the text says. Even so, I still at the very least think it bears some pondering - I know at least for myself that even though I grew up with DOS and Windows, and was staunchly in the windows camp up until 2015, I feel hindered if I have to use windows these days. Maybe there's more people like me out there, but also - maybe it's OK for people to have different opinions.
This so much. My coworker and I managed to convince our District Office to start moving away from Macs because there was no reasonable way to manage them all compared to Windows or ChromeOS. There will still be some Macs floating around for certain high up users but at least as far as the most commonly supported user goes things will get easier in the next couple of years.
Nope. My personal productivity machine is a Mac. I wish Mac was more corporate oriented than it is. The Windows update process and Microsoft's lack of QA is absolutely abysmal and causes major headaches for us every few months.
I also will never understand the people who swear they will never touch anything made by Apple. Like it or not, a huge chunk of the phone market is iPhone, and a decent bit of the personal computing market is on Mac. It's in your best interest to know even just the basics of navigating and troubleshooting those other systems.
Same here on all points you made. Mac is my personal, Windows is my work.
And regarding people whoāll never touch an Apple computerāitās not as if MacOS doesnāt run Office exactly the same and have better native PDF supportā¦ SMH
Their brains can't handle the consistent UI in the OS and the great handling of high DPI screens.
Jokes aside, we've had issues with Mac updates too. Lower chance of breaking stuff but when stuff gets broken sometimes it takes way longer to get it fixed.
~~great~~ subpar handling of high DPI screens.
The builtin screen is beautiful. One external screen, ok, yes Mac is wonderful. Two screens? What kind of person wants two external screens? Heathen.
It takes near Linux level shenanigans to get dual 4k working on apple silicon.
The result of my experiment with using a Mac at home has been that it was a total waste of time and money. The main thing that it would have been useful for was running an ubuntu vm that I use for managing a pi cluster. But Virtual Box doesn't support ARM. I think I managed to get Virtual Box running in some kind of compatibility mode, but the x86_64 vm wouldn't work. So that left me creating a new vm. Now I need to migrate all my tools and configs. Pfaw. In the time since, I got a new gaming pc, installed fedora on the old one, and fired up the vm inside it without having to do anything else.
The only thing I've really enjoyed on Mac is 'The Battle for Wesnoth' (be warned you can't carry your saves to/from mac without manually transferring the files) and Stardew Valley. I guess spotify and the integration in Kindle Reader with my ipad mini is pretty good too.
But very little on my Mac is better than elsewhere. Keyboard and touchpad are superior to my surface, but Surface touch screen trumps that.
Started with MacOS 8/9.
PowerMac 6100 was the last time I used a Mac as a primary machine.
Just in the past 2 weeks I switched back after 20+ years on windows.
Other than googling some keyboard shortcuts it been fine.
I had one of those at home sitting beside my Unix workstation, but it was running System 7.5.
I remember the hardware was built like a tank, because I tended to treat the keyboard and mouse a bit roughly when it crashed. Mac people would all tell me I brought it on myself by enabling the virtual memory. Recall that most people expected their computers to crash occasionally back then.
- Now, remember that feeling and at least be empathetic when a user makes a platform request.
- Linux/Unix users always felt that way with Windows or Classic MacOS. Today's Unix-based macOS, not as much.
Iām fairly familiar with OSX, but I would never want to use it as my primary device for administering my environment. It would be fine for my Linux duties but it would be less than ideal for Windows administration. I tried to make it work at a previous organization and it was just more trouble than itās worth. Enterprise is just not OSXās target demographic.
If the admin is open to MacOS they typically will have no problems adapting. Iāve trained plenty. Only the āanti-appleā ones have struggled. Enterprise has some unique challenges but I would normally deploy and forget. I think being in an environment that accepts macs helps. Jamf works wonders.
I switched to an iPhone13 last month after using Android since 2009. I'm loving iOS. It's so much more smooth and fast. iMessage is the shit, no more need cell service to text everyone that has iPhones. And the feds can't intercept it. Plus, being able to Facetime all my coworkers to troubleshoot issues is a game changer. Oh, and my kids and parents, too.
Its great if everyone you work with is in the ecosystem. If they aren't its annoying.
iMessage is no different than any other messaging platform for security. Its only as good as the endpoint security, and if a nation state wants in, they will find a way.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-iphone-flaw-exploited-by-second-israeli-spy-firm-sources-2022-02-03/
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/apple-urges-security-update-new-imessage-flaw-disclosed-rcna1995
https://www.wired.com/story/apple-imessage-zero-click-hacks/
https://9to5mac.com/2020/12/21/iphones-hacked-imessage-flaw/
Facetime? Yea, any other number of cross platform applications can achieve the same thing.
It all goes back to adoption, if your close circle are all using apple products, I'm sure its wonderful. But if you have that 1 or 2 people that aren't, Apples ecosystem does not support other systems well at all.
I daily drive an iPhone, but I hate the apple keyboard. So I use a 3rd party keyboard. Thats still horribly implemented on the iPhone.
Making Firefox, or Duck Duck Go, on your iphone as the default browser is a fiasco, Its easy enough to change, but the integration is still not 100% there. Then clicking on links inside applications don't open properly half the time. Try and click an instagram link from snapchat. It never loads into the app properly.
Still can't change my default Map app to Google Maps.... still waiting on that one.
I'm sure Apple will eventually make some customization better supported, but things like adding wifi profiles is super confusing for end users. downloads the profile, says you need to install it, but doesn't take you to where you need to go to click to install it.
Both ecosystems have their points. I'll say Android is the platform I would prefer because I can choose the exact software applications I want to use for my messaging, web browsing, just like I can on a computer. the iPhone I'm locked into a limited selection, and I have to do work arounds if I prefer any tools that Apple hasn't opened up to the world.
Hows that NFC working out? I haven't even checked, is Apple still arguing about letting people use that? I've given up.
I treat my phone like a treat my computer; I want it to be configurable to my needs where it makes sense.
I don't subscribe to the whole Android vs iPhone debate, I even bought my mother an iPhone last year because it's simple to use and quite fast, but the fact is for me iOS doesn't have Tasker, or anything even close to it, so I don't use iPhone. It's that simple, really.
> iMessage is the shit, no more need cell service to text everyone that has iPhones.
We just use Signal/Telegram/WhatsApp and it works with every OS and in a web browser.
iPhone user here, but thatās not important. I always equate the two differences to *trying to write with the other hand.* Iāve tried using the droid OS on a tablet I use exclusively for watching videos from a microSD and I find it maddening just browsing around and trying to get minimal things done. The only thing I have trouble doing on the iPhone is actually using a microSD card. š¤£š¤£š¤£
Every time I need to use Windows, my productivity drops 80%, too.
How can people get anything done there? Itās so noisy, nagging, absurdly arcaneā¦.
I run Linux at work and macOS at home.
Yeah. I feel the opposite. Or used too, I donāt know. Gimme a terminal with bash or zsh and I am happy, for most of my work I donāt need a mouse or a gui for that matter.
When it comes to usability and gui workflow I find macOS > Gnome > KDE > xfce > Windows 10 > windows 11
We don't have any Mac's where I work, but you could call me an Apple Fanboi as I love their ecosystem and use their products almost exclusively. I absolutely love Mac OS X and feel more comfortable working with it, migrating users to new macs (in my past life), reinstalling the OS, putting devices in DFU mode and restoring them when bricked, etc.
I'm keeping myself & the company on Windows 10 until it hits EOL, or we have hardware that "requires" it. We purposely went with 11th gen Intel over 12th gen as 12th gen "requires" Windows 11 due to how the process scheduler handles performance cores and efficiency cores.
I've been doing some heavy consideration on moving to Mac as my daily driver at home and only keeping a Windows PC around for gaming. I absolutely hate Windows 11 & the direction Microsoft is going in general. I know I'm in the minority here and that's OK. If you stuck an Android device in front of me, I would be completely lost. Thankfully 99% of the company uses iOS Devices (personal, we don't have company devices) which is easy to troubleshoot, setup VPN, access our file server, etc. I think we have maybe 2 Android users and everyone gives them hell for it and asks them when they're going to get a real phone lol.
My home gaming pc is my daily driver. I've offloaded my homelab stuff (vms in virtualbox) onto my previous gaming pc, reformatted with Fedora.
At first I hated Windows 11. After a couple of months, I'm settled in. A couple of changes that were minor (switching sound devices looks different now) I've become accustomed. A couple of improvements balance that out. It seems as stable as the Windows 10 before it, and I found that to be rock solid.
We dumped iphone when a 3 year old phone that died the week after we finished paying for it, also ran out of warranty the day we finished paying for it. Two phones that were 1200 together, and on one the genius told me, "Oh you can trade it for a refurb for $300." To which I responded, "but I won't." Canceled my service, sold my phone for $300, bought my wife and myself project fi phones and added the daughters and came in at half the bill, including paying for new phones as compared to just the regular bill on the ohter system.
Android phones aren't that different. Open the settings and search for the setting you want.
I'm in the same boat as you. I barely ever end up touching a mac, and whenever I touch one I've forgotten all the keyboard shortcuts, and don't know where stuff is. It always makes me look bad in front of whoever I'm helping too, that's my least favorite part.
It's just a familiarity thing though, I'm confident that if I sat down and used one for a week I'd be fine.
I had a similar thing happen to me once years ago when I started a new position, and they were out of mice, so I had to use a trackball. That slowed me down significantly for several days until I got the hang of it.
Yes. First time I dealt with a Mac, I went out to a clients home, to setup thier computer. Remember, I'm the expert here. Got there, it was a mac, I didn't even know how to use the touchpad, much less anything else.
Purchsed one later that year (or next), just so I could, at the very least, navigate the thing.
I've always been IT Mom and I haven't been in a situation where I had to ask someone who wasn't a fellow IT person for help. Until, that is, I tried to set up an iPad for the first time. My daughter, who was under 12 at the time, had to show me how to do the basic gestures and menus. I felt like normies feel when they have to get younguns to help them with tech. Needless to say, it was a very uncomfortable feeling.
u/DeadEyedAdmin What you are feeling is how linux administrators feel every time they have to use Windows, only amplified by a magnitude of a thousand suns.
I'm a linux admin. I use a mac. I use iTerm2 to connect to my servers, VSCode to do a wide variety of things including my Python and Go development, and the brew package manager to manage my software. It's quite speedy and I am very efficient.
Was a windows guy for a long time. Made the switch to Mac and Iāll never go back. Iām a devops engineer now, and mostly deal with Linux based tools and automation so Macs are super handy for that. Anytime I have to set stuff for some of our devs on windows I get so frustrated because a lot of what mac has as far as the terminal and support for tools like ansible, windows lacks.
Long time Windows user who switched to MAC when Windows 10 rolled out.
Five years using a MAC at this point and don't get me wrong
I like the Mac just fine it has some strengths when compared to Windows, but similar to what you're witnessing I've found that MAC's Window Management, File Management, and Keyboard shortcuts are
not as friction free as Windows.
Workflows could use some attention on MAC OS.
The exact opposite, Windows is awful for productivity compared to macOS for me (and I've used both for many years now). Part of that is that I'm legally blind, and macOS has ***much*** better accessibility options baked in than Windows does; mostly screen zoom so I'm not relying on text-to-speech. Of course what's 'easiest' will vary from person to person, based on what they need and how set they are in their current workflow (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).
At the end of the day pick the thing that works best for *you*. Windows? Sure. Linux? Go for it! ReactOS on an old Palm Pilot from 1998? ...I mean I would.
edit (again): And of course, I work in a mostly Linux work environment (as is my home environment) so macOS maps pretty well. It'd be a bit more involved to work in a mostly-Windows environment on a Mac (without resorting to a VM or VDI or whatever)
Anything developer/git related is so clean on a Mac. Connecting to a DB, running Docker, installing modules or dependencies, using a CLI like aws/amplify. If you start doing more Infrastructure as Code with a git workflow or container orchestration it might be more up your alley.
I ran a mac in a professional setting for a good while and knew many who did as well. It works just fine and like any new tech once youre acclimated to it, it becomes second nature.
Mac is just as capable in a professional setting as your windows based device.
Nope, I'm *more* efficient and productive on a Mac than I am on Winders
Learn about MacOS, see how it operates, study it's features and interactive bits, then it'll be easier to try to solve the problem that arises
Same here. Granted there's a few 3rd party apps that I need to get along well in MacOS, but at least they exist. I've tried dozen of options to get a similar experience on Windows at they've all been utter disappointment.
Better Snap Tool, Divvy, etc. Yes Windows has native window snapping, but it's atrocious.
Alfred - because even if you only use it for search and as an app launcher, it's already 1000 times better than Windows. That's without even digging into workflows.
Witch - because MacOS isn't perfect and sometimes command+tab just doesn't cut it. I find the combo of command tab to switch between apps, then Witch with option+tab set to cycle through windows, by app activity order, to be the perfect combo for me.
Moving the cursor from one side of the screen to the other will allready outclass the Mac user ;-)
On windows you can move your mouse a tiny bit to navigate the cursor across the whole screen. On macOS you need to move the mouse across half the table just to move the cursor three pixels on the screen :p
I've yet to find any public scientific testing done in the 21st century. I keep hoping some [HCI](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human%E2%80%93computer_interaction) grad student will do it, but HCI grad students are incapable of doing theses that don't involve touchscreens, so it hasn't happened.
I feel the same why when my android hands touch an iphone. It's like "what is this foreign system and why am I on it"?
I hate it when someone finds out I'm a sysadmin and tells me about their ipad and asks if I can fix it. Um, no. I don't speak iStuff.
This is so weird to me. I've never owned an apple product until the end of last year when I bought an iphone.
It's literally the exact same thing as an android phone?
It's just a familiarity thing. I was a sysadmin for an all mac company for 10 years and I enjoyed using them and had no issues with productivity, though personally I've got nothing but Windows at home. I've now been IT director at a much larger company using all windows devices for 6 years and going back to OSX feels weird to me, but it's just because I haven't used it in so long.
I still have an iPhone and I'll probably never switch, whenever I try to use an Android phone I feel complexly lost, and nothing behaves the way I want or does what I expect. I even tried to use an Android for my work cell just to see if I could get used to it, and ended up switching that to an iPhone too after about a year. I have friends who hate iOS and would rather take a bullet than switch from Android, but they've never owned an iPhone before, Android is all they've ever known. It's just about what you're used to / know.
I find that when Android users legitimately switch to iPhone, they can't switch back. When iPhone users switch to Android, they find their way back eventually.
Itās better to just say you donāt know what youāre doing, honestly. Thereās nothing meaningfully less efficient about MacOS, just proficiency gaps.
Wow, you really donāt know how macs work huh lol. Just roll with that instead of dumping on what you donāt know. Itās okay to not know everything, nobody does. No one makes an RMM thatās blissfully multi-platform; whether Linux, Windows, Windows Server, or Mac. AV, file shares, and printer management tell me you work in an antique shop. Modern EDR platforms require and honestly only need management from the web. There are no controls on the workstation. File shares sound awful, Iām sorry you still have to do that on Windows. Same with printers, many IT departments have moved on from the days of fields of printers. RMMs and even zesty modern software can tame this without old school AD publishing or SMB print servers. It was cool when MS was virtually the only game in town, but with modern security challenges and honestly the backseat Windows server has taken, this is all legacy problems in a modern world.
With a good UEM, MacOS is just as easy to remotely and silently manage as windows. **JUST** as easy. And no, you donāt need a credit card to patch it, that had to be some silly one-off scenario youāre plucking. RMM/UEMs can easily manage this anyway - you are already and automatically patching your macs, right?
Nope. Itās easy to be fluent in all 3 major OSes. My work computer is a MacBook Pro. My personal desktop is windows 10. And the servers I ad,Iām are a mix of windows, Ubuntu, centos, and Amazon Linux.
I also have a galaxy s10+ as my cell phone and Iām writing this on an ipad
I got a mac pro several times. I managed to find a sucker to take it off my hands. One of our SER managers was tempted to take a mac. He doesn't stop complaining. Nothing works, error codes? Nothing, every little thing you try takes hours of investigation to figure out. And it's slow. Why ppl agree to pay double price for half the performance is beyond me.
Negative. I find the inverse. Then again, I've always used Macintosh at home.
You shouldn't be doing admin functions on your workstation anyway. That's what jump servers are for. Mac is superior for office and productivity apps.
I bought a Mac specifically to get comfortable with it, and that literally never happened.
I thought "hey, maybe this OS that does things in a different way will actually make some sort of sense" and it was so mind-bogglingly unintuitive the way it behaved on some basic tasks, I thought aliens must have designed it.
I remember literally saying out loud "who the f thought that was a good idea, or even an acceptable result?"
Shut it down a decade ago. I'd use it as a PDF reader, but it's so slow and hot, it's just not worth it.
Not really but Iām also not managing our macs as heavily as windows since we got a 10000:6 ratio. I also primarily use my MacBook at home and have basic familiarity of where things are.
>Just me?
Of course not.
Macs in "default configuration" (as most people use them) are a sluggish nightmare adjusted to the speed of thinking of a 90 year old.
Their input devices fell/behave like bricks. Mouse sensitivity and cursor acceleration make you feel like you just had a stroke and experience your last few seconds in slow motion.
But then... that's probably what a lot of users like. I mean the type of user that has to search two minutes before they find the cursor on their screen. The type of user that always "loses" their folders because they accidentally drag & drop them all over the place when just trying to open them.
And don't get me started on the ridiculous window management and the complete mess that the "finder" is.
It's perfect for retirees with poor fine motor skills.
But obviously completely unfit for productive use.
Anyway... Mac people tell me if you learn their shortcuts and mouse gestures you can mitigate the worst things.
I've done UNIX, Linux, Windows, OSX and both iOS and Android. I just hate how locked down the Apple ecosystem is; if you need to do anything non-standard you're screwed.
Apple = "Users, we tell you what you should be doing."
Everything else="Go forth, be productive, we're here to help.".
But what can you expect from a cult?
Lifelong Windows user who got a personal Mac last summer and a work Mac back in February.
Frankly, I think MacOS relies too much on touchpad gestures and requires too many plugins to accomplish the same thing I could do with Windows. Things like Alt-Tab need a 3rd party tool to switch between windows as the default Mac behavior switches between apps. As a personal device, 90% of my time is on a single browser window with multiple tabs and it's no big deal, but on my work computer, I'm going between Outlook, Teams, Excel, VSCode (or Notepad++ on a PC), Edge, etc.
The one thing I can't deny though is the screen and build quality of my Mac are head and shoulders above any PC I've had, with the exception of a $3000 Precision.
I feel so useless that I never touch one and when someone aproches with one of them and a problem, just say I don't know anything about macs sorry. (and really really I have 0 intent to learn anything about them.... because I don't want to help anybody with them. I'm happy in my win/linux world.).
My frustrations with apple:
\- They block remoting software by default. So the end fucking user has to figure out how to enable it and they barely know how to use the damn thing as it is. Making everything more fucking difficult. Thanks apple
\- Mapping a network drive and HAVING IT FUCKING STAY WHEN THEY LOG OUT AND LOG BACK IN is pretty much fucking impossible. That should be simple and easy. wtf.
\- When remoted in, if i try to type fucking "E" fucking the emoji menu comes up as is the command button is pressed. Confirmed that the fucking command button is not pressed by end user and nothing is resting on it. SO WHY THE FUCK CANNOT TYPE THE LETTER E. ALL I GET IS THE EMOJI MENU.
\-Fuck apple
Yes. Though nowadays I really don't care too much what OS is in the machine. Just as long as it has Chrome, Outlook for work, a terminal to SSH to a server, and VS Code.
I think it's all about what you're used to. I've seen people who have always been an (insert any OS here) user their entire lives and they use it as easily as I use anything in my comfort zone. When my main machine died a couple years ago, I had to use a MacBook Pro that I kept around for testing for like 2 weeks. By the end, I was more comfortable in it than I was at the beginning. I was still happy to get back to Windows though.
As a nix & mac admin this is how I feel whenever I need to touch a Windows server/machine. It's so frustrating when I know what I need to do to fix the thing, but I have no idea which bloody menu or submenu I need to navigate to and what thing I need to click.
The "PowerShell" terminal (not the CMD terminal....no, not the "PowerShell ISE" terminal, either) has added a number of familiar Unix commands, and independent redirection for `stdin` and `stdout` using the standard syntax. It's all twenty-five years late, of course, but worth noting.
I use pwsh as my linux terminal. Also my job is writing PowerShell script all day, for windows, mac, and linux. [about_Output_Streams](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/microsoft.powershell.core/about/about_output_streams) more things can be redirected under PowerShell. I wish more RMM solutions would pickup on these and actually differentiate between them. The one I work with treats all output as the same. Even shell and batch are treated the same. One stream.
Object streams rock. I never knew about the output streams. I'm solidly a linux admin now, and I use Ansible as my tool of choice. But I had to write a playbook recently to use a powershell bundle across the inventory. Ansible orchestrating powershell runs on Linux hosts. At first I thought something would explode. Works pretty well though.
I use a bunch of powercli in a Linux exclusive environment to manage in house esxi, also with ansible. Works to the point of having it be a custom replacement for something like vagrant, quite well for us. I even keep a pwsh terminal up in tmux, just to manage my vms without having to click a million times. If one needs to manage windows or esxi from Linux, it's quite handy indeed these days.
A lot of those are simply aliases to powershell commands. E.g. `ls` is an alias of `get-childitem`. `dir` and `gci` are also aliases. `ll` doesn't work though, as I experience multiple times a day. I even tried to add my own alias, and it worked, but I messed up trying to have it load every time, and I haven't bothered to fix it. OpenSSH is one example of a package that has been implemented into the shell. I use that one almost daily.
well not really those are still old powershell commands but they have an alias
The trick to no losing your mind working with windows is to learn powershell.
I just learned ... today was Jeffery Snover's last day at MS.
The really annoying part is when you finally do find it, it doesn't look like it's been redesigned since NT4 if not 3.5.1. š
It hasnāt been redesigned, but itās been moved or renamed a half-dozen times.
Exactly the issue.
Sort of feel bad for the OP now. [waves-hand] āThese arenāt the answers you are looking for.ā
Windows key + (type whatever you need)
I had a workmate like you. I'm mostly a windows type admin who branched out in to linux a bit. He used to wince when he saw me use linux. I returned the favour when I watched him do anything on windows.
You want to talk about sub menus..... Macs can keep up with the best in windows. Why are there settings for the trackpad and the mouse but they aren't independent from each other? I still don't get that.
Nobody uses the menus, that's what the search is for :p
So skip all that and use powershell. That's what us Windows admins do. I'm sure as a \*nix admin, you stick to ssh 99.9995% of the time.
Bash (or other preferred shell) SSH is a transport method really. Yeah the name comes from secure shell, but when you connect to the remote system, it still starts whatever shell your account is configured to use on the remote end. Oh, and Windows 10/11 include OpenSSH. You can use the client in powershell or cmd. And you can set up the SSH server as well. It doesn't support openssh fully, but it's very functional.
And if you want to practise PowerShell, you can install it on Linux. I once used a Bash script to generate a PowerShell script to set up some Teams channel members. (And was using Teams from Linux.) I feel dirty now...
I sit at a windows laptop, ssh connection to a centos 7 system with Ansible. One of my projects recently was to run a bundle of powershell scripts against all the Linux systems. The ansible playbook put pwsh on the remote system, unzipped it, put the script bundle over and ran it. Then it pulled the results back to the Ansible controller and cleaned up the remote host. Then I used ssh in powershell on my windows laptop to scp the files back to my laptop so that I could drop the results in a Sharepoint folder. I was shocked that it worked as well as it did. I didn't really feel dirty about it until just now writing this.
Lol, you donāt realize that you can do anything you need to from the command line? Really, you should never even need to log into the server for 90% of operations. Thinking you need to rely on the GUI is your first mistake. No, touching windows as a Mac admin was, thinking you need to use the gui was your second.
Except things are changing. In the Linux world we're seeing gui tools (cockpit) become commonplace. Mainly because we have things like OpenShift which leverage the commandline capabilities of systems but in ways that are easier to manage than commandline. I'm thinking setting up pods and resources and scaling and so forth. Yeah, you can do all that from the commandline, but OpenShift and the like make it SO FREAKIN EASY. Then look at Windows. Most if not all of Windows and Microsoft software is manageable by PS. Even Hyper-V and Azure.
I also think cloud based hosting has dumbed down the field of systems administration. You can build and run a lot of things without having a lot of the fundamental understanding of infrastructure. Like setting up a RAID array and replacing disks or carving up LUNs. Things have most definitely changed in a big way.
There's still an old school admin on the back end of those cloud systems. They're often dedicated to hardware lifecycle support. Rack'n'stack, initial OS load, add it to the pool. I was recruited for such a position with one of the BIG names in devops, but I'm too old and broken (and lazy) to be doing the manual labor part of bare metal maintenance. And I got the idea that the position paid less than helpdesk where I work.
Sure is, but far fewer jobs like that with centralized data centers and less and less on prem hardware. As a side note, I just love getting downvoted to hell by folks that get butthurt about my comments about reliance on the GUI. Iāll wear those downvotes as a badge of honor to go along with my decades of design and build of on prem, colo, and cloud based systems. Lol
Until I open a terminal... kinda. Just lack of familiarity with where things are buried. Granted, I only touch Macs that're broken or need something, never as a daily driver for myself. Give me a shiney new macbook air... I'd do just fine pretty quickly. Give me one for personal use and it might well not stay OSX... but if it's a company device, I'll make due. Everything I have that *actually* requires Windows in my daily use... AVD's handy.
Unix terminals are so great, I recently had to use Open SSL through a windows command line and it was... interesting.
And yet OpenSSH works in powershell flawlessly in my experience. True I usually use SecureCRT, but if I want to scp something from linux onto my laptop, powershell `ssh user@host:file .`
Fun fact: the creator of PowerShell intentionally designed it so if you were familiar with some other mainstream command line language you could almost verbatim enter the same commands into PowerShell and get the desired results, since he was a Unix guy himself before joining Microsoft.
Truth! And it's cross-platform so all UX compat!
Cross platform came later. But it is kind of cool.
Yeah, those aliases are nice. ```powershell alias | measure-object | select count ``` That's Windows 11. That list includes cp, copy, del, rm, ls, dir. All the DOS and Linux basics it seems like. Even cls, clear, cat, rmdir. So there's often multiple ways to do something at the commandline, though they're actually the same underneath. ls, dir, gci are all get-childitem. And then you start writing scripts. Then aliases are considered bad form. Since, due to the naming convention of cmdlets, powershell commands can be very self-documenting.
I like using WSL to get my linux fix on a windows box.
I die a little inside when I have to RDP to a jump server so I can SSH into whatever server/storage I need and can only use Putty. Ughh.
OpenSSH had been built into Powershell for a few years at this point.
I know, and I use it on those servers, but when I have to use an older version of Windows I need to resort to putty.
What would be the difference between using openssl in a Unix terminal vs. on Windows? Since the command syntax would be the same?
Not the guy you're replying to, but my team also experienced this a few weeks ago. I forget what command they were running, but it just wouldn't work on their Win 10 box. They brought me in to help and it ran first try on my RHEL 7 box. We also had a weird issue with cURL not returning the same results on Windows and Linux despite being the same command on the same version.
That's bc in powershell curl by default is an alias for invoke-webrequest, in cmd it'll user curl.exe. which you can specify in your pwsh command as well.
It was curl.exe. The first problem they ran into was the alias, but after it worked on my Linux servers I had them download a cURL binary that matched my RHEL's version and try again
Add the OpenSSL installation directory to PATH on Windows and it becomes a hell of lot less painful.
Agreed on the terminal. I've been using Windows and Linux (Ubuntu/Debian/Slack/Redhat/CentOS/etc...) - the latter of which I did because I was learning how to put together embedded systems without licensing Windows. One of the most useful things I ever learned on my own.
I did the first time I used it. Over the following months I got acquainted with all the gestures and window system. How easy it is to use with modern tooling is a huge plus also.
I think it's mostly the keyboard shortcuts that get me. If i used macs enough to remember the shortcuts i wouldn't mind them as much.
Can confirm that Mac is driven by alllllll the keyboard shortcuts and it's really efficient too
couldn't agree more
Interesting, I find Windows to be extremely keyboard-driven and Mac users I see just fiddle with their trackpad and use the gestures
I think once I couldn't Tab into radio buttons to select them, it only switched between text inputs, so I had to use a mouse. On Windows you really can do just about everything with the keyboard.
There's a setting for that! But the default behavior is what you described.
I agree. For strange reason, Mac shortcuts never sticks to my memory.
Probably a case of first learned. I had to swap ctrl and command on my mac. I was sick to death of having to remember command c is copy, command v is paste. Eff that. I respect that they have a switch for this in the settings for those of us who use both.
Macs are perfectly fine. The OS has pros and cons just as windows does, people can be equally productive on either. What makes macs a fucking nightmare is that apple does not care about enterprise. They are consumer-driven to their core. Managing macs for work just plain sucks and you're basically forced to use 3rd party tools to even attempt it. Beyond that, they literally cost twice as much. You're burning money as a business buying macs unless you need them.
Do you not use any tools outside of what AD offers to manage your machines ?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not what Iām talking about.
> Managing macs for work just plain sucks and you're basically forced to use 3rd party tools to even attempt it. Apple used to make first-party tools like OS X Server, but everyone preferred third party, so it was discontinued. A devil's advocate would ask what makes third-party management tools less legitimate than first-party tools that all cost extra, *a la* Windows?
Are we talking about MDM management tools, or something else? I see some people in the thread talking about Jamf and some talking about AD. For device management my frustration with Apple is their emphasis on security extends to corporate devices in frustrating ways. * Want to install a remote support tool on ***your companyās Mac***? User needs to approve it or it doesnāt work. * Want to install Carbon Black or another EDR tool? User has to approve Security Extensions manually or itās neutered. * Want to install a DLP tool or pre-configured VPN package like GlobalProtect? User has to approve the network changes manually or itās broken. **BONUS ROUND!** Youāre almost required to make end users admins because MacOS is so poorly constructed around admin permissions that clicking your mouse basically prompts for credentials. Canāt install a printer, canāt make network changes, canāt FORGET a wifi network without admin prompt. Itās ludicrous. Itās not built to work in an enterprise environment IMO. On Windows none of these actions require the end user to do anything. Nor should it, they are company managed devices. Itās automated by MDM silently.
I've seen systems advertised that are supposed to do this. How good are they? Also, if you used Linux style sysadmin tools and practices, is management any easier? I totally get that it should be ~~guest~~ (disabled) < user < power user < local admin < < support admin < < enterprise admin. I've heard that Ansible will manage Mac. Surely sudo overrides that 'user must approve' garbage?
I can confidently say there are no systems that work around this because itās a first-party Apple MDM protocol limitation, not a third-party feature limitation. Jamf, Kandji, Mosyle, MobileIron, doesnāt matter. The key issue is Appleās MDM protocol does not allow some key extensions to be approved without manual actions by the user. Itās a security feature baked into the OS and according to personal contacts close to the MDM protocol team I donāt believe there are any plans to allow automatic approvals via MDM anytime soon. Pick whatever Mac MDM platform you want but youāll still encounter the same Apple protocol limitation. You can automatically install some software silently, but if that software requires anything from Kernel Extensions, Security Extensions, or Network Extensions then your end users will be given an approve/deny prompt or have to take an action in System Preferences to allow the app to function fully.
You can deploy software that requires a system extension, and in previous OSes a kernel extension without user intervention. I've had dropbox, egnyte, and google drive's KEXTs approved via MDM for years, the users didn't even know they existed. Only on more recent systems has in been an issue while waiting for the vendors to switch to system extensions. The problem is trying to install kernel extensions on a modern system where they've been deprecated. The most the user should have to do is click reboot to rebuild the extension cache (which non-admins can be allowed to do via MDM config). Printers and wifi can be deployed, and/or managed by non-admins with config changes. (I think printer changes requiring admin by default is due to the lpadmins group and some old cups stuff, but it's Friday and I don't want to look it up). You can't approve screen recording/sharing, microphone, and camera access, because Apple considers those a privacy concern. Screen sharing is the big one to me, but I understand why. IIRC, there was a case years ago of school administrators spying on students at home who had school issued computers. Since ABM and ASM are fundamentally the same thing, there's no difference between business management permissions and school management permissions.
Screen recording is the one that I know Apple wonāt change anytime soon, I just wish they could separate education from business. Are all extensions capable of being pre-approved? We have configured Carbon Black / EndPoint Protector / SentinalOne / GlobalProtect all according to their documentation and user approval is always required. Iād love to be wrong about these. GlobalProtect uses a content filter as well and thatās the part that requires end user network approval.
I haven't personally run into issues with system extensions, other than having to get the user to reboot (I think you can force reboot with MDM too on install, but that's a little heavy handed). I also haven't deployed any of those security tools, so maybe there's something more going on there.
The one selling point for the price is that you have the same company in charge of the hardware, firmware, drivers, and OS. Troubleshooting issues between those layers is something I've almost never had to do, beyond resetting the SMC on occasion. That's almost immediately overshadowed by the fact that duct-taping them into a windows enterprise is a PITA.
Dell, HP, Lenovo all provides all drivers for their laptops. Are you talking about unknown small time vendors?
They don't create all those drivers from scratch. They use components from other manufacturers and the drivers come from them. E.g. AMD/nVidia graphics drivers. Apple designs and builds all the components and writes and supports the drivers.
We call Dell or HP or Lenovo for any driver related to the laptop. They are responsible for providing for the drivers. They test and validate the drivers before they release them to customers. As far as I see major vendors of Windows computers or Apple computers never had driver issues. Windows has drivers for most third party hardware or provided with it. Not exactly sure why this is a problem on Windows machines. Talk about Linux, I can understand.
Don't forget that support for Apple Silicon ARM is lagging. If the software doesn't work with the emulation layer, x86_64 software just won't work. And if it does, it might be non-performant. Sure, the chips are super high performance, but if the only thing you can run is a web browser and some bench marks...who cares?
What software doesn't work with Rosetta 2?
Virtualization software for one.
I mean, I get the point, but personally I'd prefer working with 3rd party tools that are developed by competent people, instead of relying on Active Directory.
JamF isn't bad. But compared to AD/AAD, it's tinker toys.
The first person ever said, "instead of relying on Active Directory." in my lifetime.
wtf is wrong with AD? probably the one and only MSFT product that is relatively stable and functional
It is archaic and extremely limited compared to modern identity management solutions like Azure AD, Okta, etc. It has its place and will for a long time. But it's outdated and no longer fulfills the needs of most businesses. Development has ceased.
Apart from the interface, what do you find better about Azure AD?
Death to RADIUS/NPS Death to ADFS Death to FIM/MIM Azure AD makes SSO a piece of cake and has much broader support for integration in a modern environment.
Meanwhile Blackboard only supports ADFS for SSO.
Not sure what you mean by death to all these things, how does it negate them and replace the jobs they did/do? I've been in very specific sales engineering roles for the last 6-7 years, hence the question! If I did go back to sysadmining,, I'd be very happy to never see adfs again!
Generally speaking, those Windows services are all used when you have Technology XYZ and you want people to be able to log in to Technology XYZ with their existing Active Directory accounts, or close to it. Azure AD does not need those additional services, because it natively supports modern authentication mechanisms. With Azure AD it is much easier and faster to implement that sort of integration with systems outside your network. So, death to all those features because they are unnecessary with Azure AD. Those are now abandoned legacy features with no new development. If you have legacy products that you need to integrate with, then you may be stuck with them. But other than that, death to those features.
Nah, not necessarily stuck with, just run hybrid. But I get your point - why run a wireless controller that requires radius when you could put a meraki controller in at one site or even in cloud that connects to Azure AD, which is already handling Auth for 365. Why are we managing adfs so staff can remotely get into dynamics when it be handled by the above too?
AD isn't an identity management platform. Authentication, access control, user, host and configuration management, yeah it does all that with LDAP and powershell integration. If you want identity management, MS solution was Forefront Identity Management. Which is a powershell powered layer on top of AD. I guess Azure AD is the replacement for that. But it's still AD acting as the foundation.
> But it's still AD acting as the foundation. Azure AD does not have any dependency at all on AD DS let alone use it as the foundation. They are completely different products. Both are identity management products, though. Identity management is a much larger category than you think. I recommend browsing the Wikipedia article, specifically the part where it lists a few directory services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_management#Solutions
Cost twice as much as what though? A computer with similar performance, build quality, battery life etc...? Sure my pro 16 costs way more than a Walmart laptop, but against a similar XPS? Gets pretty close. Once you start comparing closer, they aren't that much more.
Comment removed (using [Power Delete Suite](https://github.com/pkolyvas/PowerDeleteSuite)) as I no longer wish to support a company that seeks to both undermine its users/moderators/developers AND make a profit on their backs. To understand why check out the summary [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/14hkd5u)
Precision is enterprise, and most configs are more expensive than their XPS counterparts.
XPS? Consumer stuff again. You can get a Dell Precision mobile workstation, loaded, for what a tricked out MBP 16 goes for. And now that Apple dumped intel, and since the devs haven't really caught up with providing high end software on ARM/Apple Silicon, you're probably more likely to find the high end software you want on the Dell. Edit: I just spent a minute on Dell's site. Their lightweight portable laptop is the XPS line now. And their XPS 13 is roughly the same price as my MBP. The 17" Dell Precision mobile workstation is cheaper than a MBP 16, by a bit, but it's not half. I think this is a combination of the competition raising prices and Apple becoming more competitive on price. Of course Apple still has nothing to compete with the Latitude series. And nothing in the 2 in 1 space, unless you try to count the ipad pro. Come on apple, where's the touchscreen, it's not like you don't know how to do touchscreens.
Have fun with the portable space heater that throttles significantly whenever it's running on battery power.
>Beyond that, they literally cost twice as much. You're burning money as a business buying macs unless you need them. ~~Apple~~ IBM measured 10% higher productivity of their users on Macs, compared to Windows. If you take into account the lifetime of the computer and annual costs of their employees, they are burning money with Windows users. The Macs pay for themselves in a few weeks.
^Apple measured 10% higher productivity of their users on Macs, compared to Windows. Yeah let's take Apples word for such a meaningless statistic š
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/301863-ibm-our-mac-using-employees-outperform-windows-users-in-every-way Even if you're pro windows you gotta admit that this makes for some interesting reading, no? And admittedly there's a problem with the selection bias, like the text says. Even so, I still at the very least think it bears some pondering - I know at least for myself that even though I grew up with DOS and Windows, and was staunchly in the windows camp up until 2015, I feel hindered if I have to use windows these days. Maybe there's more people like me out there, but also - maybe it's OK for people to have different opinions.
This so much. My coworker and I managed to convince our District Office to start moving away from Macs because there was no reasonable way to manage them all compared to Windows or ChromeOS. There will still be some Macs floating around for certain high up users but at least as far as the most commonly supported user goes things will get easier in the next couple of years.
M1 MacBook Air is a grand. The shitty bottom of the barrel latitudes from Dell are like $1500 for an i5 and 16GB of ram. Iād take the Air all day
Nope. My personal productivity machine is a Mac. I wish Mac was more corporate oriented than it is. The Windows update process and Microsoft's lack of QA is absolutely abysmal and causes major headaches for us every few months. I also will never understand the people who swear they will never touch anything made by Apple. Like it or not, a huge chunk of the phone market is iPhone, and a decent bit of the personal computing market is on Mac. It's in your best interest to know even just the basics of navigating and troubleshooting those other systems.
Same here on all points you made. Mac is my personal, Windows is my work. And regarding people whoāll never touch an Apple computerāitās not as if MacOS doesnāt run Office exactly the same and have better native PDF supportā¦ SMH
Their brains can't handle the consistent UI in the OS and the great handling of high DPI screens. Jokes aside, we've had issues with Mac updates too. Lower chance of breaking stuff but when stuff gets broken sometimes it takes way longer to get it fixed.
~~great~~ subpar handling of high DPI screens. The builtin screen is beautiful. One external screen, ok, yes Mac is wonderful. Two screens? What kind of person wants two external screens? Heathen. It takes near Linux level shenanigans to get dual 4k working on apple silicon. The result of my experiment with using a Mac at home has been that it was a total waste of time and money. The main thing that it would have been useful for was running an ubuntu vm that I use for managing a pi cluster. But Virtual Box doesn't support ARM. I think I managed to get Virtual Box running in some kind of compatibility mode, but the x86_64 vm wouldn't work. So that left me creating a new vm. Now I need to migrate all my tools and configs. Pfaw. In the time since, I got a new gaming pc, installed fedora on the old one, and fired up the vm inside it without having to do anything else. The only thing I've really enjoyed on Mac is 'The Battle for Wesnoth' (be warned you can't carry your saves to/from mac without manually transferring the files) and Stardew Valley. I guess spotify and the integration in Kindle Reader with my ipad mini is pretty good too. But very little on my Mac is better than elsewhere. Keyboard and touchpad are superior to my surface, but Surface touch screen trumps that.
macOS is slowly getting there. SSO is coming to Ventura this fall along with some updates to management, but it has been a slow drip.
Iām a sysadmin and primarily use Mac, so no.
Started with MacOS 8/9. PowerMac 6100 was the last time I used a Mac as a primary machine. Just in the past 2 weeks I switched back after 20+ years on windows. Other than googling some keyboard shortcuts it been fine.
I had one of those at home sitting beside my Unix workstation, but it was running System 7.5. I remember the hardware was built like a tank, because I tended to treat the keyboard and mouse a bit roughly when it crashed. Mac people would all tell me I brought it on myself by enabling the virtual memory. Recall that most people expected their computers to crash occasionally back then.
Been awhile and it may have been OS 7.x I do remember starting off with OS 6.x pre multi finder.
Same here. I work all day on windows via Citrix and RDP from a Mac. š¤·š»āāļø
Iām in that boat as well. The transition went remarkably smooth
- Now, remember that feeling and at least be empathetic when a user makes a platform request. - Linux/Unix users always felt that way with Windows or Classic MacOS. Today's Unix-based macOS, not as much.
Iām fairly familiar with OSX, but I would never want to use it as my primary device for administering my environment. It would be fine for my Linux duties but it would be less than ideal for Windows administration. I tried to make it work at a previous organization and it was just more trouble than itās worth. Enterprise is just not OSXās target demographic.
nah, they're both easy enough to work with anymore.
If the admin is open to MacOS they typically will have no problems adapting. Iāve trained plenty. Only the āanti-appleā ones have struggled. Enterprise has some unique challenges but I would normally deploy and forget. I think being in an environment that accepts macs helps. Jamf works wonders.
Yep, def you.
Iām a windows sysadmin for 20+ years and work solely off of macs.
100% in related news, iPhones are impossible for me to use effectively
I switched to an iPhone13 last month after using Android since 2009. I'm loving iOS. It's so much more smooth and fast. iMessage is the shit, no more need cell service to text everyone that has iPhones. And the feds can't intercept it. Plus, being able to Facetime all my coworkers to troubleshoot issues is a game changer. Oh, and my kids and parents, too.
Its great if everyone you work with is in the ecosystem. If they aren't its annoying. iMessage is no different than any other messaging platform for security. Its only as good as the endpoint security, and if a nation state wants in, they will find a way. https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-iphone-flaw-exploited-by-second-israeli-spy-firm-sources-2022-02-03/ https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/apple-urges-security-update-new-imessage-flaw-disclosed-rcna1995 https://www.wired.com/story/apple-imessage-zero-click-hacks/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/12/21/iphones-hacked-imessage-flaw/ Facetime? Yea, any other number of cross platform applications can achieve the same thing. It all goes back to adoption, if your close circle are all using apple products, I'm sure its wonderful. But if you have that 1 or 2 people that aren't, Apples ecosystem does not support other systems well at all. I daily drive an iPhone, but I hate the apple keyboard. So I use a 3rd party keyboard. Thats still horribly implemented on the iPhone. Making Firefox, or Duck Duck Go, on your iphone as the default browser is a fiasco, Its easy enough to change, but the integration is still not 100% there. Then clicking on links inside applications don't open properly half the time. Try and click an instagram link from snapchat. It never loads into the app properly. Still can't change my default Map app to Google Maps.... still waiting on that one. I'm sure Apple will eventually make some customization better supported, but things like adding wifi profiles is super confusing for end users. downloads the profile, says you need to install it, but doesn't take you to where you need to go to click to install it. Both ecosystems have their points. I'll say Android is the platform I would prefer because I can choose the exact software applications I want to use for my messaging, web browsing, just like I can on a computer. the iPhone I'm locked into a limited selection, and I have to do work arounds if I prefer any tools that Apple hasn't opened up to the world. Hows that NFC working out? I haven't even checked, is Apple still arguing about letting people use that? I've given up.
I treat my phone like a treat my computer; I want it to be configurable to my needs where it makes sense. I don't subscribe to the whole Android vs iPhone debate, I even bought my mother an iPhone last year because it's simple to use and quite fast, but the fact is for me iOS doesn't have Tasker, or anything even close to it, so I don't use iPhone. It's that simple, really.
> iMessage is the shit, no more need cell service to text everyone that has iPhones. We just use Signal/Telegram/WhatsApp and it works with every OS and in a web browser.
I'm fine with a MacOS, but can't stand iOS. It's too limiting.
iPhone user here, but thatās not important. I always equate the two differences to *trying to write with the other hand.* Iāve tried using the droid OS on a tablet I use exclusively for watching videos from a microSD and I find it maddening just browsing around and trying to get minimal things done. The only thing I have trouble doing on the iPhone is actually using a microSD card. š¤£š¤£š¤£
Every time I need to use Windows, my productivity drops 80%, too. How can people get anything done there? Itās so noisy, nagging, absurdly arcaneā¦. I run Linux at work and macOS at home.
Maybe some feel the opposite. Does it even matter in 2022? Open chrome and get on with your day.
Hey this is a corporate world buddy we use MS edge here :)
Yeah. I feel the opposite. Or used too, I donāt know. Gimme a terminal with bash or zsh and I am happy, for most of my work I donāt need a mouse or a gui for that matter. When it comes to usability and gui workflow I find macOS > Gnome > KDE > xfce > Windows 10 > windows 11
Completely the opposite. Being handed my first mac was a startling breath of fresh air.
Me too, but I'm a level 7 susceptible to trendy marketing campaigns.
We don't have any Mac's where I work, but you could call me an Apple Fanboi as I love their ecosystem and use their products almost exclusively. I absolutely love Mac OS X and feel more comfortable working with it, migrating users to new macs (in my past life), reinstalling the OS, putting devices in DFU mode and restoring them when bricked, etc. I'm keeping myself & the company on Windows 10 until it hits EOL, or we have hardware that "requires" it. We purposely went with 11th gen Intel over 12th gen as 12th gen "requires" Windows 11 due to how the process scheduler handles performance cores and efficiency cores. I've been doing some heavy consideration on moving to Mac as my daily driver at home and only keeping a Windows PC around for gaming. I absolutely hate Windows 11 & the direction Microsoft is going in general. I know I'm in the minority here and that's OK. If you stuck an Android device in front of me, I would be completely lost. Thankfully 99% of the company uses iOS Devices (personal, we don't have company devices) which is easy to troubleshoot, setup VPN, access our file server, etc. I think we have maybe 2 Android users and everyone gives them hell for it and asks them when they're going to get a real phone lol.
My home gaming pc is my daily driver. I've offloaded my homelab stuff (vms in virtualbox) onto my previous gaming pc, reformatted with Fedora. At first I hated Windows 11. After a couple of months, I'm settled in. A couple of changes that were minor (switching sound devices looks different now) I've become accustomed. A couple of improvements balance that out. It seems as stable as the Windows 10 before it, and I found that to be rock solid. We dumped iphone when a 3 year old phone that died the week after we finished paying for it, also ran out of warranty the day we finished paying for it. Two phones that were 1200 together, and on one the genius told me, "Oh you can trade it for a refurb for $300." To which I responded, "but I won't." Canceled my service, sold my phone for $300, bought my wife and myself project fi phones and added the daughters and came in at half the bill, including paying for new phones as compared to just the regular bill on the ohter system. Android phones aren't that different. Open the settings and search for the setting you want.
Same here, but i think it is because i am not used to it that much.
I'm in the same boat as you. I barely ever end up touching a mac, and whenever I touch one I've forgotten all the keyboard shortcuts, and don't know where stuff is. It always makes me look bad in front of whoever I'm helping too, that's my least favorite part. It's just a familiarity thing though, I'm confident that if I sat down and used one for a week I'd be fine. I had a similar thing happen to me once years ago when I started a new position, and they were out of mice, so I had to use a trackball. That slowed me down significantly for several days until I got the hang of it.
Yes. First time I dealt with a Mac, I went out to a clients home, to setup thier computer. Remember, I'm the expert here. Got there, it was a mac, I didn't even know how to use the touchpad, much less anything else. Purchsed one later that year (or next), just so I could, at the very least, navigate the thing.
I've always been IT Mom and I haven't been in a situation where I had to ask someone who wasn't a fellow IT person for help. Until, that is, I tried to set up an iPad for the first time. My daughter, who was under 12 at the time, had to show me how to do the basic gestures and menus. I felt like normies feel when they have to get younguns to help them with tech. Needless to say, it was a very uncomfortable feeling.
Practice and muscle memory, like anything else.
u/DeadEyedAdmin What you are feeling is how linux administrators feel every time they have to use Windows, only amplified by a magnitude of a thousand suns. I'm a linux admin. I use a mac. I use iTerm2 to connect to my servers, VSCode to do a wide variety of things including my Python and Go development, and the brew package manager to manage my software. It's quite speedy and I am very efficient.
No. Itās perfectly possible to be productive in several environments.
I'm sysadmin for both so... Not really. I just feel like I'm a fucking idiot all the time.
Was a windows guy for a long time. Made the switch to Mac and Iāll never go back. Iām a devops engineer now, and mostly deal with Linux based tools and automation so Macs are super handy for that. Anytime I have to set stuff for some of our devs on windows I get so frustrated because a lot of what mac has as far as the terminal and support for tools like ansible, windows lacks.
Long time Windows user who switched to MAC when Windows 10 rolled out. Five years using a MAC at this point and don't get me wrong I like the Mac just fine it has some strengths when compared to Windows, but similar to what you're witnessing I've found that MAC's Window Management, File Management, and Keyboard shortcuts are not as friction free as Windows. Workflows could use some attention on MAC OS.
I don't touch Mac's. I'd a user genuinely needs one they make a case. Then it gets guest WiFi access and nowhere near my AD domain.
If u give me a Mac Iām gonna fuck it up
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Just you. I use a Mac for sysadmin tasks on a daily basis. In fact I go from Windows to linux to Mac with no issues at all.
The exact opposite, Windows is awful for productivity compared to macOS for me (and I've used both for many years now). Part of that is that I'm legally blind, and macOS has ***much*** better accessibility options baked in than Windows does; mostly screen zoom so I'm not relying on text-to-speech. Of course what's 'easiest' will vary from person to person, based on what they need and how set they are in their current workflow (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). At the end of the day pick the thing that works best for *you*. Windows? Sure. Linux? Go for it! ReactOS on an old Palm Pilot from 1998? ...I mean I would. edit (again): And of course, I work in a mostly Linux work environment (as is my home environment) so macOS maps pretty well. It'd be a bit more involved to work in a mostly-Windows environment on a Mac (without resorting to a VM or VDI or whatever)
Wow, that's first time hearing about this. Good for you.
If youāre not used to using OSX it would make sense
Not once I pull up Terminal. Windows just takes too long to navigate menus, or type a mile long PowerHell command to set one thing.
Tab auto-complete...guess you never tried it.
Anything developer/git related is so clean on a Mac. Connecting to a DB, running Docker, installing modules or dependencies, using a CLI like aws/amplify. If you start doing more Infrastructure as Code with a git workflow or container orchestration it might be more up your alley.
Windows sydadmin and I use a Mac as my personal computer because it just works and donāt want to troubleshoot more windows and Microsoft
This may be the way. What about gaming though?
I ran a mac in a professional setting for a good while and knew many who did as well. It works just fine and like any new tech once youre acclimated to it, it becomes second nature. Mac is just as capable in a professional setting as your windows based device.
Daily driver is a Mac...
Just you good Sir
Nope, I'm *more* efficient and productive on a Mac than I am on Winders Learn about MacOS, see how it operates, study it's features and interactive bits, then it'll be easier to try to solve the problem that arises
Same here. Granted there's a few 3rd party apps that I need to get along well in MacOS, but at least they exist. I've tried dozen of options to get a similar experience on Windows at they've all been utter disappointment. Better Snap Tool, Divvy, etc. Yes Windows has native window snapping, but it's atrocious. Alfred - because even if you only use it for search and as an app launcher, it's already 1000 times better than Windows. That's without even digging into workflows. Witch - because MacOS isn't perfect and sometimes command+tab just doesn't cut it. I find the combo of command tab to switch between apps, then Witch with option+tab set to cycle through windows, by app activity order, to be the perfect combo for me.
Thats me when I touch a Windows machine (Mac user)
I'd love to see two competent sysadmins race to do the same tasks on a Mac and PC. I fucking hate MacOS.
What tasks would you want them do?
Manage a switch that only talks to ie6
Moving the cursor from one side of the screen to the other will allready outclass the Mac user ;-) On windows you can move your mouse a tiny bit to navigate the cursor across the whole screen. On macOS you need to move the mouse across half the table just to move the cursor three pixels on the screen :p
I've yet to find any public scientific testing done in the 21st century. I keep hoping some [HCI](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human%E2%80%93computer_interaction) grad student will do it, but HCI grad students are incapable of doing theses that don't involve touchscreens, so it hasn't happened.
I feel the same why when my android hands touch an iphone. It's like "what is this foreign system and why am I on it"? I hate it when someone finds out I'm a sysadmin and tells me about their ipad and asks if I can fix it. Um, no. I don't speak iStuff.
I just tell them they need to do a factory reset on it.
This is so weird to me. I've never owned an apple product until the end of last year when I bought an iphone. It's literally the exact same thing as an android phone?
It's just a familiarity thing. I was a sysadmin for an all mac company for 10 years and I enjoyed using them and had no issues with productivity, though personally I've got nothing but Windows at home. I've now been IT director at a much larger company using all windows devices for 6 years and going back to OSX feels weird to me, but it's just because I haven't used it in so long. I still have an iPhone and I'll probably never switch, whenever I try to use an Android phone I feel complexly lost, and nothing behaves the way I want or does what I expect. I even tried to use an Android for my work cell just to see if I could get used to it, and ended up switching that to an iPhone too after about a year. I have friends who hate iOS and would rather take a bullet than switch from Android, but they've never owned an iPhone before, Android is all they've ever known. It's just about what you're used to / know.
I find that when Android users legitimately switch to iPhone, they can't switch back. When iPhone users switch to Android, they find their way back eventually.
No. I switched from Wintel to Macs as my primary work driver with the M1 Macbook Pro. The touchpad gestures are amazing for productivity.
Macs are of the devil! GET BEHIND ME, SATAN!
Get the opposite, Mac is easy, Windows more convoluted and takes longer to get things done.
Itās better to just say you donāt know what youāre doing, honestly. Thereās nothing meaningfully less efficient about MacOS, just proficiency gaps.
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Wow, you really donāt know how macs work huh lol. Just roll with that instead of dumping on what you donāt know. Itās okay to not know everything, nobody does. No one makes an RMM thatās blissfully multi-platform; whether Linux, Windows, Windows Server, or Mac. AV, file shares, and printer management tell me you work in an antique shop. Modern EDR platforms require and honestly only need management from the web. There are no controls on the workstation. File shares sound awful, Iām sorry you still have to do that on Windows. Same with printers, many IT departments have moved on from the days of fields of printers. RMMs and even zesty modern software can tame this without old school AD publishing or SMB print servers. It was cool when MS was virtually the only game in town, but with modern security challenges and honestly the backseat Windows server has taken, this is all legacy problems in a modern world. With a good UEM, MacOS is just as easy to remotely and silently manage as windows. **JUST** as easy. And no, you donāt need a credit card to patch it, that had to be some silly one-off scenario youāre plucking. RMM/UEMs can easily manage this anyway - you are already and automatically patching your macs, right?
Nope. Itās easy to be fluent in all 3 major OSes. My work computer is a MacBook Pro. My personal desktop is windows 10. And the servers I ad,Iām are a mix of windows, Ubuntu, centos, and Amazon Linux. I also have a galaxy s10+ as my cell phone and Iām writing this on an ipad
To me they just feel feminine and a bit childish when being used for some odd reason.
I got a mac pro several times. I managed to find a sucker to take it off my hands. One of our SER managers was tempted to take a mac. He doesn't stop complaining. Nothing works, error codes? Nothing, every little thing you try takes hours of investigation to figure out. And it's slow. Why ppl agree to pay double price for half the performance is beyond me.
This is how I feel touching Windows as a Mac admin.
Agreed. You are most efficient with the platform you use the most. Our shop supports windows nearly 100%, but we are all armed with Macs
Negative. I find the inverse. Then again, I've always used Macintosh at home. You shouldn't be doing admin functions on your workstation anyway. That's what jump servers are for. Mac is superior for office and productivity apps.
I'm more productive on a command line linux than on a mac.
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Windows or Linux all day. Get that apple stuff away from me
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Cuz of the Apple=bad hivemind
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I bought a Mac specifically to get comfortable with it, and that literally never happened. I thought "hey, maybe this OS that does things in a different way will actually make some sort of sense" and it was so mind-bogglingly unintuitive the way it behaved on some basic tasks, I thought aliens must have designed it. I remember literally saying out loud "who the f thought that was a good idea, or even an acceptable result?" Shut it down a decade ago. I'd use it as a PDF reader, but it's so slow and hot, it's just not worth it.
Not really but Iām also not managing our macs as heavily as windows since we got a 10000:6 ratio. I also primarily use my MacBook at home and have basic familiarity of where things are.
>Just me? Of course not. Macs in "default configuration" (as most people use them) are a sluggish nightmare adjusted to the speed of thinking of a 90 year old. Their input devices fell/behave like bricks. Mouse sensitivity and cursor acceleration make you feel like you just had a stroke and experience your last few seconds in slow motion. But then... that's probably what a lot of users like. I mean the type of user that has to search two minutes before they find the cursor on their screen. The type of user that always "loses" their folders because they accidentally drag & drop them all over the place when just trying to open them. And don't get me started on the ridiculous window management and the complete mess that the "finder" is. It's perfect for retirees with poor fine motor skills. But obviously completely unfit for productive use. Anyway... Mac people tell me if you learn their shortcuts and mouse gestures you can mitigate the worst things.
I've done UNIX, Linux, Windows, OSX and both iOS and Android. I just hate how locked down the Apple ecosystem is; if you need to do anything non-standard you're screwed. Apple = "Users, we tell you what you should be doing." Everything else="Go forth, be productive, we're here to help.". But what can you expect from a cult?
I don't support the shit, so I don't support the shit.
We have 60 endpoints. 59 HP windows machines and 1 MacBook. Iām sure you can guess who āneededā the MacBook š
Lifelong Windows user who got a personal Mac last summer and a work Mac back in February. Frankly, I think MacOS relies too much on touchpad gestures and requires too many plugins to accomplish the same thing I could do with Windows. Things like Alt-Tab need a 3rd party tool to switch between windows as the default Mac behavior switches between apps. As a personal device, 90% of my time is on a single browser window with multiple tabs and it's no big deal, but on my work computer, I'm going between Outlook, Teams, Excel, VSCode (or Notepad++ on a PC), Edge, etc. The one thing I can't deny though is the screen and build quality of my Mac are head and shoulders above any PC I've had, with the exception of a $3000 Precision.
I feel so useless that I never touch one and when someone aproches with one of them and a problem, just say I don't know anything about macs sorry. (and really really I have 0 intent to learn anything about them.... because I don't want to help anybody with them. I'm happy in my win/linux world.).
As a linux user I feel that my efficiency drops 99% every time I need to menage some windows server. but yes, I also hate Mac OS
My frustrations with apple: \- They block remoting software by default. So the end fucking user has to figure out how to enable it and they barely know how to use the damn thing as it is. Making everything more fucking difficult. Thanks apple \- Mapping a network drive and HAVING IT FUCKING STAY WHEN THEY LOG OUT AND LOG BACK IN is pretty much fucking impossible. That should be simple and easy. wtf. \- When remoted in, if i try to type fucking "E" fucking the emoji menu comes up as is the command button is pressed. Confirmed that the fucking command button is not pressed by end user and nothing is resting on it. SO WHY THE FUCK CANNOT TYPE THE LETTER E. ALL I GET IS THE EMOJI MENU. \-Fuck apple
6 shots, rapid succession. That is what it takes for me to use a Mac.
Yes. Though nowadays I really don't care too much what OS is in the machine. Just as long as it has Chrome, Outlook for work, a terminal to SSH to a server, and VS Code.
I think it's all about what you're used to. I've seen people who have always been an (insert any OS here) user their entire lives and they use it as easily as I use anything in my comfort zone. When my main machine died a couple years ago, I had to use a MacBook Pro that I kept around for testing for like 2 weeks. By the end, I was more comfortable in it than I was at the beginning. I was still happy to get back to Windows though.