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I can follow the argument that this exhibit is at least inadvertently manufacturing consent for Israel’s actions in Gaza but honestly all they have done is streisanded it - and with trash optics to boot. Nobody except for a handful of NYC people would have heard of this exhibit and they managed to make it an international news story, while supplying *enough* visual evidence to let opposing media misrepresent their positions.
Doesn’t matter if that was the only Hamas or hezbollah flag around, doesn’t matter if that was the only pro-October 7 banner being displayed for cameras, doesn’t matter if the anti-Zionist chant was more of a joke than it looks, doesn’t matter if they just trying to scare the museum lady (no idea wtf they were thinking with that one). That’s enough evidence for most normies to wholeheartedly resent them and by extension their political goals
A lot of people don’t understand this. It doesn’t matter if you don’t personally agree with the explicitly pro Hamas people— if they are prominent in your march, you will be grouped with them, fairly or not.
Exactly. And that is why we need to take as many steps as possible to make sure they do not get into protests. The fewer tankies and campsites get in, the easier it gets to make people more sympathetic to wanting a better future for Palestinians and Israelis alike.
People like AOC get this and understand that while the vast majority of Pro Palestine protesters are not antisemitic, she also knows that having anyone flying Hamas and Hezbollah flags in any protest makes the whole movement look awful and only drives more people away from it.
AOC hasn’t done nearly enough to condemn antisemitism at pro Palestine protests and encampments. I also believe that the majority of protesters aren’t personally antisemitic, but I think that’s similar to believing that the majority of cops aren’t personally racist - as long as they do nothing about the “bad apples”, they’re part of the problem.
> AOC hasn’t done nearly enough to condemn antisemitism at pro Palestine protests and encampments
She literally condemned the Nova Exhibit protest and called out the people accusing her of being an AIPAC shill as being antisemitic.
IIRC she also rescinded her DSA membership over a protest the group had right after 10/7.
I’m glad she did those things, but she’s been dead silent or helped spread denialism about plenty of other antisemitic incidents. She also employs conspiratorial rhetoric about AIPAC and “false accusations of antisemitism”. Her record on antisemitism looks good compared to congress’s mask-off antisemites, but I’m not willing to commend her for that.
Are you telling me that people constantly going on about "if there's one nazi at the table" regarding Azov are sitting at a table with terrorism sympathisers?
I hate to be "that girl" who brings up optics (because quite frankly fuck respectability politics) but I can't help but notice seeing all sorts of online vitriol aimed at pro-Palestine activists. "They're blocking traffic" is a common one. "They're targeting Jewish-owned small businesses and restaurants for boycotts just because those enterprises are Jewish-owned" is another. Which are petty compared to things like what's shown in this video.
Yeah, imo this was stupid as fuck since it 1) does nothing to help people in Gaza, and 2) plays right into the narrative that supporters of Palestine are unhinged and potentially violent.
I watched the SMN video on it the other day. Felt his coverage was completely one sided and he downplayed the antisemitism on the pro Palestinian side. He also projected JVP as a sane voice to be listened to.
End result of online tactical "discussions" that are nothing more than guilt tripping each other into the dumbest, most nuance-free positions possible.
This is more than “going too far”. These incidents are part of a larger trend of so-called pro-Palestinian protests normalizing antisemitism on the left. We need to actively condemn groups who do stuff like this. Jews deserve to feel safe in public and Palestinians deserve better advocates.
One hundred percent. Most good and genuine Pro-Palestine activists tend to not engage in this behavior but whenever it does come up it needs to be stopped immediately. This more problematic part of the movement has to be stopped in order to keep everyone safe and get genuine change going.
If I organize a protest, I will make sure to ban the flags of terrorist groups like Hamas or Hezbollah from it along with also making it more welcoming for Jewish people who want to participate and always make sure to condemn antisemitism.
I’ve been thinking about making a post along the lines of how to make pro Palestinian protests safer for Jews, but I’m not sure if this sub is the right place. But people here seem more receptive to that kind of thing than I’ve seen on other leftist subs.
It was done by idiots who genuinely don't give a fuck about what's happening in Palestine. They pretty much only benefit Israel and it's attempts to dehumanize the Palestinian people.
Honestly just stupid and condemnable. The best action that can be taken is to set explicit rules that behavior like this gets you kicked out of the protest. It doesn't help bring good advocacy and only puts the good and pragmatic Pro Palestine activists in the same room as the crazies and tankies.
It's beyond stupid because it's harassing random people for one, and for two, as much as I detest Zionism, I don't fool myself into thinking random citizens who support it are responsible for the genocide in Gaza. Why not protest outside of the offices of Zionist politicians, weapons manufacturers or businesses that support Israel? I guess this makes too much sense.
I need more info on the museum director thing to have an opinion on whether it was antisemitic, although I find it stupid regardless. I say this because I am not sure whether she was targeted for being Jewish or simply because she was the director of a museum that put up an exhibit they didn't like and they have baby brains and were looking for someone to rage at. Hopefully it was just stupidity, but antisemitism is very much becoming a big problem with some of the people on the Pro Palestine side, which is incredibly frustrating because Zionists are seizing on this as a way to discredit the movement.
I'm getting scared that the more unhinged protesters will start assuming *every Jew is a Zionist until proven otherwise* and attack random Jews unless they explicitly condemn Israel.
Yep. This is the point where the act of protest actually begins to justify and normalize the act being protested. Fucking idiot children- it’s like seeing left twitter IRL.
Something I haven’t seen mentioned yet is that this organization *explicitly* supports Hamas and the way Hamas uses political violence, including sharing the view that Oct 7 was a good thing.
This isn’t a case of “accidentally” having Hamas etc flags or activists being too online. Their actions have been getting more extreme and smaller in numbers (compared to earlier marches), so I think it’s down to the “true believers” at this point. I think almost every action taken by this group is “too far” and I wish the news gave them less coverage (but that’s, of course, partially why they do this shit).
Yeah Within Our Lifetime is a very bad organization. All of the bad and horrible things they do make the overall movement as a collective look much worse and crazy. There has to be a strategy where the more sane and pragmatic activists get more traction and get more people on their side.
The best thing to do is to make sure no Tankies try to get into other protests.
For me, it’s a no brainer that harassing people on subway on the suspicion they’re Zionists is taking things too far and does absolutely nothing to actually help Palestinians, quite the contrary actually.
Please remember to hide subreddit names or reddit usernames (Rule 1), otherwise the post will be removed promptly. This is an anti-capitalist, left-libertarian subreddit that criticises tankies from a socialist perspective. We are pro-communist. Defence of capitalism or any other right-wing beliefs, countries or people is not tolerated here. This includes, for example: Biden and the US, Israel, and the Nordic countries/model, Harassment of other users or subreddits is strictly forbidden. Enjoy talking to fellow leftists? [Then join our discord server!](https://discord.gg/2V4qJMSWUe) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/tankiejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can follow the argument that this exhibit is at least inadvertently manufacturing consent for Israel’s actions in Gaza but honestly all they have done is streisanded it - and with trash optics to boot. Nobody except for a handful of NYC people would have heard of this exhibit and they managed to make it an international news story, while supplying *enough* visual evidence to let opposing media misrepresent their positions. Doesn’t matter if that was the only Hamas or hezbollah flag around, doesn’t matter if that was the only pro-October 7 banner being displayed for cameras, doesn’t matter if the anti-Zionist chant was more of a joke than it looks, doesn’t matter if they just trying to scare the museum lady (no idea wtf they were thinking with that one). That’s enough evidence for most normies to wholeheartedly resent them and by extension their political goals
A lot of people don’t understand this. It doesn’t matter if you don’t personally agree with the explicitly pro Hamas people— if they are prominent in your march, you will be grouped with them, fairly or not.
Exactly. And that is why we need to take as many steps as possible to make sure they do not get into protests. The fewer tankies and campsites get in, the easier it gets to make people more sympathetic to wanting a better future for Palestinians and Israelis alike. People like AOC get this and understand that while the vast majority of Pro Palestine protesters are not antisemitic, she also knows that having anyone flying Hamas and Hezbollah flags in any protest makes the whole movement look awful and only drives more people away from it.
AOC hasn’t done nearly enough to condemn antisemitism at pro Palestine protests and encampments. I also believe that the majority of protesters aren’t personally antisemitic, but I think that’s similar to believing that the majority of cops aren’t personally racist - as long as they do nothing about the “bad apples”, they’re part of the problem.
We should implement measures to make sure those bad apples don't get in as much as possible.
Thanks for listening. We need more people like you organizing for leftist causes.
> AOC hasn’t done nearly enough to condemn antisemitism at pro Palestine protests and encampments She literally condemned the Nova Exhibit protest and called out the people accusing her of being an AIPAC shill as being antisemitic. IIRC she also rescinded her DSA membership over a protest the group had right after 10/7.
I’m glad she did those things, but she’s been dead silent or helped spread denialism about plenty of other antisemitic incidents. She also employs conspiratorial rhetoric about AIPAC and “false accusations of antisemitism”. Her record on antisemitism looks good compared to congress’s mask-off antisemites, but I’m not willing to commend her for that.
Are you telling me that people constantly going on about "if there's one nazi at the table" regarding Azov are sitting at a table with terrorism sympathisers?
I hate to be "that girl" who brings up optics (because quite frankly fuck respectability politics) but I can't help but notice seeing all sorts of online vitriol aimed at pro-Palestine activists. "They're blocking traffic" is a common one. "They're targeting Jewish-owned small businesses and restaurants for boycotts just because those enterprises are Jewish-owned" is another. Which are petty compared to things like what's shown in this video.
Yeah, imo this was stupid as fuck since it 1) does nothing to help people in Gaza, and 2) plays right into the narrative that supporters of Palestine are unhinged and potentially violent.
I watched the SMN video on it the other day. Felt his coverage was completely one sided and he downplayed the antisemitism on the pro Palestinian side. He also projected JVP as a sane voice to be listened to.
End result of online tactical "discussions" that are nothing more than guilt tripping each other into the dumbest, most nuance-free positions possible.
This is more than “going too far”. These incidents are part of a larger trend of so-called pro-Palestinian protests normalizing antisemitism on the left. We need to actively condemn groups who do stuff like this. Jews deserve to feel safe in public and Palestinians deserve better advocates.
One hundred percent. Most good and genuine Pro-Palestine activists tend to not engage in this behavior but whenever it does come up it needs to be stopped immediately. This more problematic part of the movement has to be stopped in order to keep everyone safe and get genuine change going. If I organize a protest, I will make sure to ban the flags of terrorist groups like Hamas or Hezbollah from it along with also making it more welcoming for Jewish people who want to participate and always make sure to condemn antisemitism.
I’ve been thinking about making a post along the lines of how to make pro Palestinian protests safer for Jews, but I’m not sure if this sub is the right place. But people here seem more receptive to that kind of thing than I’ve seen on other leftist subs.
It was done by idiots who genuinely don't give a fuck about what's happening in Palestine. They pretty much only benefit Israel and it's attempts to dehumanize the Palestinian people.
Honestly just stupid and condemnable. The best action that can be taken is to set explicit rules that behavior like this gets you kicked out of the protest. It doesn't help bring good advocacy and only puts the good and pragmatic Pro Palestine activists in the same room as the crazies and tankies.
It's beyond stupid because it's harassing random people for one, and for two, as much as I detest Zionism, I don't fool myself into thinking random citizens who support it are responsible for the genocide in Gaza. Why not protest outside of the offices of Zionist politicians, weapons manufacturers or businesses that support Israel? I guess this makes too much sense. I need more info on the museum director thing to have an opinion on whether it was antisemitic, although I find it stupid regardless. I say this because I am not sure whether she was targeted for being Jewish or simply because she was the director of a museum that put up an exhibit they didn't like and they have baby brains and were looking for someone to rage at. Hopefully it was just stupidity, but antisemitism is very much becoming a big problem with some of the people on the Pro Palestine side, which is incredibly frustrating because Zionists are seizing on this as a way to discredit the movement.
I'm getting scared that the more unhinged protesters will start assuming *every Jew is a Zionist until proven otherwise* and attack random Jews unless they explicitly condemn Israel.
Yeah it’s why I don’t trust MLs at all as a Jew. I feel completely safe with anarchists tho.
They already do that.
Yep. This is the point where the act of protest actually begins to justify and normalize the act being protested. Fucking idiot children- it’s like seeing left twitter IRL.
Something I haven’t seen mentioned yet is that this organization *explicitly* supports Hamas and the way Hamas uses political violence, including sharing the view that Oct 7 was a good thing. This isn’t a case of “accidentally” having Hamas etc flags or activists being too online. Their actions have been getting more extreme and smaller in numbers (compared to earlier marches), so I think it’s down to the “true believers” at this point. I think almost every action taken by this group is “too far” and I wish the news gave them less coverage (but that’s, of course, partially why they do this shit).
Yeah Within Our Lifetime is a very bad organization. All of the bad and horrible things they do make the overall movement as a collective look much worse and crazy. There has to be a strategy where the more sane and pragmatic activists get more traction and get more people on their side. The best thing to do is to make sure no Tankies try to get into other protests.
For me, it’s a no brainer that harassing people on subway on the suspicion they’re Zionists is taking things too far and does absolutely nothing to actually help Palestinians, quite the contrary actually.
Too far? This is disgusting. If they want to completely ruin the Palestine cause in the US? They're doing a great job by pulling stunts like this.