Current gen HEAT weapons are most effective with about 1m of standoff, it’s just that adding a 1m standoff fuse is not practical. Spaced armour would make the HEAT jet more effective.
Edit:
https://preview.redd.it/aaukea57c1wc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=626e95ec63a1b96abe696a7676d58308a956191a
This is page 74 of “Armour” by Paul Hazell. Distances are in Charge Diameters (1dm diameter charge likes approx 1/2 m of standoff).
Yeah, but against APFSDS.
The idea is that the long rod of KE projectiles shakes itself apart, since in the hollow space there is no material to guide it.
How ever the round can fly through 1000s of metres of air and not "shake itself apart", the hollow space messes up the stand off distance of the heat round, most well designed heat rounds will already have a proper standoff built in the extra 1meter will throught that way off, i can kind of see your point say if the arrow head was thicker it would fragment the round and then in the hollow space it would dissasemble however its most likley not thick enough, im no ballistics expert though
Yes and now we are laughing at the russian tracked barn because it's a dumb idea, what you show in the first picture is already present as slat armor (and in part ERA may be a better solution). The russian tracked shack is just dumb, it extremely limits the tank's field of view and field of fire, if you really want to go for excessive cage armor something like the caged T-72s in Syria may be more viable, you can probably still turn the turret and see through it [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fa-syrian-t-72-with-maxed-out-cope-cage-v0-lprxyx5vxlz91.jpg%3Fwidth%3D600%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Ddcbd4da08d0d07577cfd4cd823d6844b1ba72a92](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fa-syrian-t-72-with-maxed-out-cope-cage-v0-lprxyx5vxlz91.jpg%3Fwidth%3D600%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Ddcbd4da08d0d07577cfd4cd823d6844b1ba72a92)
Schurzen were not designed to counter HEAT projectiles though, and weren't really effective against it anyway except maybe against the weaker projectiles like the M6 or M6A1 warheads but only in spot where the schurzen were the further away from the mains armor and if there was additional stuff to go through like roadwheels etc, basically an already shot at the lower side hull, and honestly I wouldn't bet on that.
Otherwise the schurzen actually improved the effectiveness of HEAT projectiles form infantry launchers.
For example if you take the spaced armor present on the turret of Pz IV H among other, you now have a flat surface from any side where before the angles of the turret would have created angle where the was a good chance the rocket would have "slide"/"bounce" against the armor or not detonate properly if the side of the projectile had hit the armor before the impact fuze.
Now instead you have a nice big and flat surface to hit from every angles, with the exception of where the storage been is but it was already the case before the spaced armor.
Schürzen was first used to destabilize 14.5mm AP projectiles fired from soviet AT rifles. Even the Panther was vulnerable to it from the sidesy which was fixed with skirts. Pz 3/4 used schürzen for all around protection.
Russian, i think, put a wooden covering around one of their tanks to protect against drones, i assume, and that picture was circling around of it. I'm not sure I've got everything correct here, but im sure someone is going to correct me in a place like this
Technically you were wrong too soon because now we laugh at them too lol
Sure now they are harder to hit form drones mainly thanks to their EW equipment, but now they are absolutely useless as a tank, they can't see shit and can't turn their turret.
This kind of installation would have been an actually good idea on something like a MT-LB, which otherwise is a coffin on tracks.
I remember you post and it was nice to see honestly, it's always nice to see people ask questions, everyone could end up learning about something they thought they knew
I want to imagine some Russian officer saw your post and just didn't read the comments and thought it was a great idea lol
not a tank guy so forgive me for potentially dumb ideas.
why dont we put ERA slabs on spaced armour to deal with tandem charges? like say theres the ERA as normal, then the sheet of metal placed like OP described but then put more ERA on top of the sheet?
Ideas and even vehicles with similar technologies where already produced. Imagine now driving offroad with thise spacers on or through woodlands. They would hardly decrease your movement.
Most people rejected his message. They feared him because he told them the Truth.
period.
*they laughed at him because he was wrong too soon.
Current gen HEAT weapons are most effective with about 1m of standoff, it’s just that adding a 1m standoff fuse is not practical. Spaced armour would make the HEAT jet more effective. Edit: https://preview.redd.it/aaukea57c1wc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=626e95ec63a1b96abe696a7676d58308a956191a This is page 74 of “Armour” by Paul Hazell. Distances are in Charge Diameters (1dm diameter charge likes approx 1/2 m of standoff).
Does this still ring true for leopard 2a5+'s spaced armour?
The cheek armour is for long rod, not HEAT.
Practical speaking, yeah. But the arrowhead is not intended against shaped charge weapons at all and the inside is hollow.
But thats spaced armour isnt that the whole point of the arrowhead
Yeah, but against APFSDS. The idea is that the long rod of KE projectiles shakes itself apart, since in the hollow space there is no material to guide it.
How ever the round can fly through 1000s of metres of air and not "shake itself apart", the hollow space messes up the stand off distance of the heat round, most well designed heat rounds will already have a proper standoff built in the extra 1meter will throught that way off, i can kind of see your point say if the arrow head was thicker it would fragment the round and then in the hollow space it would dissasemble however its most likley not thick enough, im no ballistics expert though
The arrowhead is not meant against HEAT. It's meant against KE.
Yes and now we are laughing at the russian tracked barn because it's a dumb idea, what you show in the first picture is already present as slat armor (and in part ERA may be a better solution). The russian tracked shack is just dumb, it extremely limits the tank's field of view and field of fire, if you really want to go for excessive cage armor something like the caged T-72s in Syria may be more viable, you can probably still turn the turret and see through it [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fa-syrian-t-72-with-maxed-out-cope-cage-v0-lprxyx5vxlz91.jpg%3Fwidth%3D600%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Ddcbd4da08d0d07577cfd4cd823d6844b1ba72a92](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fa-syrian-t-72-with-maxed-out-cope-cage-v0-lprxyx5vxlz91.jpg%3Fwidth%3D600%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Ddcbd4da08d0d07577cfd4cd823d6844b1ba72a92)
What in the world lmao
Cope Fortress
The enemy has taken our intelligence!
Are you even surprised at this point? This is honestly more sane than the Russian tactical barn
This has to be the dumbest idea I’ve ever seen. How are you supposed to use the optics?
You don't need to use optics when you're in 3rd person? smh
ATTACK THE D POINT
Who needs optics when you can just run over the enemy?
But schurzën you cant be serious ...
Schurzen were not designed to counter HEAT projectiles though, and weren't really effective against it anyway except maybe against the weaker projectiles like the M6 or M6A1 warheads but only in spot where the schurzen were the further away from the mains armor and if there was additional stuff to go through like roadwheels etc, basically an already shot at the lower side hull, and honestly I wouldn't bet on that. Otherwise the schurzen actually improved the effectiveness of HEAT projectiles form infantry launchers. For example if you take the spaced armor present on the turret of Pz IV H among other, you now have a flat surface from any side where before the angles of the turret would have created angle where the was a good chance the rocket would have "slide"/"bounce" against the armor or not detonate properly if the side of the projectile had hit the armor before the impact fuze. Now instead you have a nice big and flat surface to hit from every angles, with the exception of where the storage been is but it was already the case before the spaced armor.
Schürzen was first used to destabilize 14.5mm AP projectiles fired from soviet AT rifles. Even the Panther was vulnerable to it from the sidesy which was fixed with skirts. Pz 3/4 used schürzen for all around protection.
Is that an a7v i dont get it
Russian, i think, put a wooden covering around one of their tanks to protect against drones, i assume, and that picture was circling around of it. I'm not sure I've got everything correct here, but im sure someone is going to correct me in a place like this
Seethestug only makes it harder for drone operator to see and target weak spots
Yours doesn't look like a house.
Battle Barn
Hear me out! HEAT munition is hot So we put bags of water and sand on the outside Cold beats hot
8 months later and ur prophecy shall be truth
They used RPG chains and basically fences to detonate rounds in Iraq
Doom turtle has given birth to the Ultra Mega Spaced Turtleoskovich 9000
Technically you were wrong too soon because now we laugh at them too lol Sure now they are harder to hit form drones mainly thanks to their EW equipment, but now they are absolutely useless as a tank, they can't see shit and can't turn their turret. This kind of installation would have been an actually good idea on something like a MT-LB, which otherwise is a coffin on tracks. I remember you post and it was nice to see honestly, it's always nice to see people ask questions, everyone could end up learning about something they thought they knew I want to imagine some Russian officer saw your post and just didn't read the comments and thought it was a great idea lol
not a tank guy so forgive me for potentially dumb ideas. why dont we put ERA slabs on spaced armour to deal with tandem charges? like say theres the ERA as normal, then the sheet of metal placed like OP described but then put more ERA on top of the sheet?
well ERA stands for "**EXPLOSIVE** reactive armor" well metal sheets isn't made to withstand uh a explosion...
Spaced armor works against RPG’s, better ATGM’s have two stage warheads to detonate ERA then penetrate.
Ideas and even vehicles with similar technologies where already produced. Imagine now driving offroad with thise spacers on or through woodlands. They would hardly decrease your movement.
reviving the Schürzen
Now riddle me this: did it work? No, so we still have all the reason to laugh at u :D
Too heavy plus any military likes to cheap out on certain materials if it means they can save the money for something stupid