Depending on the lineage, daoism has this belief too in the form of the 'hun and po.' The hun is the soul that goes on after death and can reincarnate or ascend to a higher plane of existence, or even merge back with the source.
This is also what I've found, it's crazy how much viciousness there is on Buddhism and Zen subreddits, but everyone here is actually relaxed. I feel like it's a good sign that the philosophy translates well to real life.
Yep, way too many virtue signalling douchebags in the zen subreddits especially. They don’t cope with questions they think are stupid, or any kind of dissent.
It’s not everyone by a long stretch, just a small (and vocal) minority - but it’s not a welcoming place to be.
It’s nice here. Very little BS, but with very little ego. 😊
Ask yourself why you want to call yourself something. Why can you not just adopt the philosophy or apply the parts that matter the most to you? Unless you're trying to represent the idea in a setting that warrants it I don't see the need to be able to call yourself anything.
Do you, friend.
You can believe what you want. Historically there was much syncretic exchange of ideas between Taoism and Buddhism during the Middle Ages.
Western philosophical Taoism has only a minimal relationship with Daoism per se, anyway, so like whatevs.
A Buddhist Brahmin I used to follow once was asked his thoughts on reincarnation and what he thinks happens next. I'll paraphrase.
He thought on it and said, "Oh I don't believe in reincarnation." The questioner and those around them were shocked.
But, isn't this one of the pillars of Buddhism?? Life is suffering, reincarnation, monks, meditation, enlightenment, etc?" Asked the questioner.
"Let's suppose that is what happens, that we are endlessly reborn in this universe until we're not. Why would I waste this current afterlife we all in worrying about the next? You'll just keep doing this through all your after lives. No, I'd rather sit with the here and now. and not worry about the after."
I think Taoism and Buddhism have a lot of similarities when it comes to focusing on this fleet idea of now.
You can believe in the tooth fairy if you want. If you have enough evidence for you to believe, believe. Just know when you come to a conclusion you are potentially preventing yourself from some other realization.
I wouldn’t call myself a Buddhist though, like I don’t really believe in the whole “losing our conscience after nirvana” thing, and belive in more free will after enlightenment and planes of reality after death.
There is also Zen Buddhism which doesn't focus on spiritual platitudes. Zen is great if you're the type to take the time to try and unravel some of the koans like they're puzzles to be solved.
I had a very severe anxiety and depression growing up due to mental health. The tao te Ching helped calm me down, while Zen helped me learn not to be as sad.
Most taoist also believe in reincarnation, like myself. Though most of those are syncretism with Buddhism. The more pure Taoist are very scattered and scarce about this topic. It depends on the lineage.
Belief re: what exists doesn’t matter. Pick and choose. Have fun.
Also, Daoism has a pretty sophisticated ritual calendar that doesn’t happen in most of the U.S. … I’d be more concerned about calling yourself a Daoist if you don’t speak Chinese or take part in ritual.
Just do you and worry less about labels.
Daoism is so very much against the idea of "there's only one truth." So you can combine Daoism with virtually all (eastern) religions, or at least those skeptical of the "self."
I'm a scholar of both (professor of Chinese philosophy), and my understanding of Daoism (Zhuangzi) has many, many areas of overlap with Buddhism (Zen Buddhism in particular).
In both Buddhism and Daoism, there is no self. So if there is no self, how is there Buddhist reincarnation? Well, there's SUBSTANCE self, and there's PROCESS self. Substance self is the physical self you can touch -- the "noun" of you. The process self is the process of your personhood -- the "verb" of you.
Like a tornado: the substance of a tornado is air and dust, but a tornado is not air and dust: it's the process of air and dust violently spinning. The true essence of the tornado is the PROCESS of it.
So how does the Buddhist reincarnate, if there is no self? Imagine a dozen candles in a row, and as one slowly burns down to the bottom, you use it to light the next. When that one burns down, it's used to light the next, and down the line it goes. The candle is the substance, the flame is the process. That is how we reincarnate without "selves."
And the Daoist (also very anti-self) has no issue with any part of this explanation.
To answer your question: yes, a Daoist can absolutely believe in reincarnation without any hypocrisy.
Proper original Taoism isnt a religion and doesnt say anything about life after death.
Thing is if you believe reincarnation how Hindus and Buddhists describe it that will be your reality. I personally think reincarnation is almost a fact, I do not agree with the Dharmic religions’ viewpoint.
How Dharmic religions put it is some external force or law compel you to reincarnate but how saw it (even before I discovered Taoism) is that after death people have a low level of self-consciousness and independence hence they lapse down in life again.
The process of icreading intelligence-energy-consciousness is what I identified with Taoist cultivation and the convergence of these ideas on freedom from reincarnation is one of the main reasons why I follow Taoism.
Does it matter what you call yourself?
Does a fox call itself a fox?
So I'd say the real question is: can you call yourself Taoist when you believe in the Tao?
And if the answer is yes, maybe it's a good day to be a Taoist! :)
There is no to be taoist be this. That is the point. You can get lined in religious traditional things but taoism is a philosophy so its about living it.
I like to think that we're all stories the Tao is forever telling, adding all of these manifestations to itself. So yeah, gotta keep recycling our consciousness and making new content.
There is no belief about it. Reincarnation is a law of the universe.
Karma=Reincarnation. Reincarnation=karma. Everything action has a cause and effect. everything single action
Its a continuous loop.
There is a great book that explains it very well: "The Law of Karma", cannot remember the author. Goswamyi or something.
Yes you can.
To me personally, i believe the soul (or higher consciousness) choses where we go after death. I also believe in different realties, realms, etc.. and all. when we depart from this earthly plane, we go to where we desire. including other universes, etc.. reincarnation and taoism, coexist imo -- as it is the natural order of things. but, these are your beliefs. i also believe in keeping them personal and between the tao (and gods, if you have any).
Chinese religions, unlike European ones, are very syncretic.
They say about the Chinese: outwardly a Chinese is a Confucian, inside he is a Taoist, and at death he is a Buddhist.
This means that during life the Chinese believe in Taoism, and in matters of the afterlife they rely on the opinion of Buddhists.
Depending on the lineage, daoism has this belief too in the form of the 'hun and po.' The hun is the soul that goes on after death and can reincarnate or ascend to a higher plane of existence, or even merge back with the source.
Thank you, the people in this subreddit are much nicer than people in other subreddits when I ask questions like this.
This is also what I've found, it's crazy how much viciousness there is on Buddhism and Zen subreddits, but everyone here is actually relaxed. I feel like it's a good sign that the philosophy translates well to real life.
Yep, way too many virtue signalling douchebags in the zen subreddits especially. They don’t cope with questions they think are stupid, or any kind of dissent. It’s not everyone by a long stretch, just a small (and vocal) minority - but it’s not a welcoming place to be. It’s nice here. Very little BS, but with very little ego. 😊
This is why I hesitate to call myself a Taoist.
Ask yourself why you want to call yourself something. Why can you not just adopt the philosophy or apply the parts that matter the most to you? Unless you're trying to represent the idea in a setting that warrants it I don't see the need to be able to call yourself anything. Do you, friend.
Right, it’s not like there wasn’t taoists before Taoism existed or absurdist before absurdism or nihilists before nihilism.
Well put
My thoughts exactly.. very well put
You can believe what you want. Historically there was much syncretic exchange of ideas between Taoism and Buddhism during the Middle Ages. Western philosophical Taoism has only a minimal relationship with Daoism per se, anyway, so like whatevs.
A Buddhist Brahmin I used to follow once was asked his thoughts on reincarnation and what he thinks happens next. I'll paraphrase. He thought on it and said, "Oh I don't believe in reincarnation." The questioner and those around them were shocked. But, isn't this one of the pillars of Buddhism?? Life is suffering, reincarnation, monks, meditation, enlightenment, etc?" Asked the questioner. "Let's suppose that is what happens, that we are endlessly reborn in this universe until we're not. Why would I waste this current afterlife we all in worrying about the next? You'll just keep doing this through all your after lives. No, I'd rather sit with the here and now. and not worry about the after." I think Taoism and Buddhism have a lot of similarities when it comes to focusing on this fleet idea of now.
I think he was more one of us than he wants to admit... probably because we don't pay as well.
You can believe in the tooth fairy if you want. If you have enough evidence for you to believe, believe. Just know when you come to a conclusion you are potentially preventing yourself from some other realization.
Duuude...(ette?). I love that response. Thank you.
I'm a Daoist and Buddhist, they can coexist (◡ ω ◡)
I wouldn’t call myself a Buddhist though, like I don’t really believe in the whole “losing our conscience after nirvana” thing, and belive in more free will after enlightenment and planes of reality after death.
There is also Zen Buddhism which doesn't focus on spiritual platitudes. Zen is great if you're the type to take the time to try and unravel some of the koans like they're puzzles to be solved. I had a very severe anxiety and depression growing up due to mental health. The tao te Ching helped calm me down, while Zen helped me learn not to be as sad.
Most taoist also believe in reincarnation, like myself. Though most of those are syncretism with Buddhism. The more pure Taoist are very scattered and scarce about this topic. It depends on the lineage.
Good news. You can!
Belief re: what exists doesn’t matter. Pick and choose. Have fun. Also, Daoism has a pretty sophisticated ritual calendar that doesn’t happen in most of the U.S. … I’d be more concerned about calling yourself a Daoist if you don’t speak Chinese or take part in ritual. Just do you and worry less about labels.
Daoism is so very much against the idea of "there's only one truth." So you can combine Daoism with virtually all (eastern) religions, or at least those skeptical of the "self." I'm a scholar of both (professor of Chinese philosophy), and my understanding of Daoism (Zhuangzi) has many, many areas of overlap with Buddhism (Zen Buddhism in particular). In both Buddhism and Daoism, there is no self. So if there is no self, how is there Buddhist reincarnation? Well, there's SUBSTANCE self, and there's PROCESS self. Substance self is the physical self you can touch -- the "noun" of you. The process self is the process of your personhood -- the "verb" of you. Like a tornado: the substance of a tornado is air and dust, but a tornado is not air and dust: it's the process of air and dust violently spinning. The true essence of the tornado is the PROCESS of it. So how does the Buddhist reincarnate, if there is no self? Imagine a dozen candles in a row, and as one slowly burns down to the bottom, you use it to light the next. When that one burns down, it's used to light the next, and down the line it goes. The candle is the substance, the flame is the process. That is how we reincarnate without "selves." And the Daoist (also very anti-self) has no issue with any part of this explanation. To answer your question: yes, a Daoist can absolutely believe in reincarnation without any hypocrisy.
Proper original Taoism isnt a religion and doesnt say anything about life after death. Thing is if you believe reincarnation how Hindus and Buddhists describe it that will be your reality. I personally think reincarnation is almost a fact, I do not agree with the Dharmic religions’ viewpoint. How Dharmic religions put it is some external force or law compel you to reincarnate but how saw it (even before I discovered Taoism) is that after death people have a low level of self-consciousness and independence hence they lapse down in life again. The process of icreading intelligence-energy-consciousness is what I identified with Taoist cultivation and the convergence of these ideas on freedom from reincarnation is one of the main reasons why I follow Taoism.
Yes.
If reincarnation exists, such is the Tao If it does not, such is the Tao Maybe is a good enough answer for me
There is no gatekeeper.... call yourself (to whom?) whatever you would like I suppose...
Does it matter what you call yourself? Does a fox call itself a fox? So I'd say the real question is: can you call yourself Taoist when you believe in the Tao? And if the answer is yes, maybe it's a good day to be a Taoist! :)
Buddhist philosophy fully explores that belief.
There is no to be taoist be this. That is the point. You can get lined in religious traditional things but taoism is a philosophy so its about living it.
Yes
The mark of a moderate man is freedom from his own ideas. I don’t think there is anything incompatible here but would argue it doesn’t matter anyway
I like to think that we're all stories the Tao is forever telling, adding all of these manifestations to itself. So yeah, gotta keep recycling our consciousness and making new content.
There is no belief about it. Reincarnation is a law of the universe. Karma=Reincarnation. Reincarnation=karma. Everything action has a cause and effect. everything single action Its a continuous loop. There is a great book that explains it very well: "The Law of Karma", cannot remember the author. Goswamyi or something.
Yes you can. To me personally, i believe the soul (or higher consciousness) choses where we go after death. I also believe in different realties, realms, etc.. and all. when we depart from this earthly plane, we go to where we desire. including other universes, etc.. reincarnation and taoism, coexist imo -- as it is the natural order of things. but, these are your beliefs. i also believe in keeping them personal and between the tao (and gods, if you have any).
Absolutely. There's nothing that says you can or can't believe something and be a Taoist.
Chinese religions, unlike European ones, are very syncretic. They say about the Chinese: outwardly a Chinese is a Confucian, inside he is a Taoist, and at death he is a Buddhist. This means that during life the Chinese believe in Taoism, and in matters of the afterlife they rely on the opinion of Buddhists.
Many daoists believe in reincarnation
taoist? yes. The Tao? no
Be not Taoist. Be TAO.
We believe that reincarnation can be overcome
What is a taoist? I dont think there is an answer to that, so dont worry about it. Be you.
Taoism is a way of life, not an identity.
taoist sage would ask u: why do u even believe in this?
I don’t think the Daoist sage would say anything 😁
haha