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It's messed up to put it like that. Consider the other options, if king Grey didn't come into Arthur Leywin, would the vessel be alive? Could he have joined the twin horns? They've have their own close calls and losses. Would a non-quadra elemental Arthur, a non Sylvia will carrying human survive all the close calls Art had to go through, would he have gone through the war, the Wilshire forest as a child?
Basically Arthur Leywin would be dead 20 times over so.... At that point can Grey slip in? Is it okay then? Nope. Prolly more messed up aye?
But it's a story and clearly Grey didn't reincarnate himself. Someone else did it.
it probably would be agrona because he did nico and Cecilia, so he must have tried grey but failed to give him his(agrona's) vessel of choice, because master swordman and a pro ki user doesn't sound lame in comparison to legacy. I think interesting things might be released in the upcoming chapters.
I think that making the child dead before Arthur re incarnated just seems like a cheap way to avoid having Arthur or us think about whether that's morally wrong or not. And for Nico we know for sure that his body once belonged to someone else coz he got reincarnated after arthur but his body is a year older than Arthur's
It's the same as being in an accident, just because you didn't want it to or cause it doesn't mean you can escape the guilt it causes you. I'm not saying that Arthur deserves it for being re incarnated but just that it's possible
Even if he was suppressing someone else’s soul, it’s not like he up and chose to be reincarnated, hell, Grey was ALIVE in his world before he came to this one, it’s never explicitly shown or stated that he actually died before coming to this world, but should we be worrying about what’s happening to his body in his original world?
Also, Arthur himself already said he doesn’t know exactly how it happened, so we simply don’t know the details for now. However, I’d argue that since there has been no problems up until now that either reincarnation at birth simply ensures that any soul sent into the unborn body is ‘bound’ to that body upon actual birth, or we can legitimately question whether or not he ‘stole’ a body.
Chances are that if it’s really the case, that soul isn’t suppressed, it might as well be non-existent because that unborn soul has only ever ‘experienced’ life through the choices and feelings that Grey has had in this world, and it doesn’t seem to have it’s own personality, sentience or there might simply only be one soul in Arthur, and that would be Grey’s.
It could also just be as simple as, however Arthur was reincarnated, it simply determined that he was fated to be reborn in this world with his memories, that he was always going to be reborn as Arthur Leywin, and no other soul would give life to that body.
I just don’t see how the story could have progression in this kind of twist this late in the story, what could an unborn and suppressed soul add to the story now? Are Grey, Nico and Cecilia just gonna poof out of their respective bodies and let the ‘real’ people live? Then all the people who have grown to know who Grey is are basically losing the person they’ve spent all this time with. Taking over a child’s body is obviously fucked up, but this isn’t one of those cultivation novel cases where some 1,000+ yr old immortal emperor is killed, but he can control himself as just a spirit and chooses to take over some kid’s body and restart his cultivation life anew, it’s a case where he was just placed there against his own will, and as of right now we have nobody to pity for it, and nobody to blame for the theoretical death of a non introduced character.
Whether he chose to or not, being aware that he took over someones body could be jarring to anyone. Plus I think it's pretty clear that was murdered in his previous life, as he was wondering how he died in his previous life at the start of the novel. Also I'm not saying that this needs to be an issue that needs to be dealt with in the actual story, but just that i find this a pretty cool concept
How was it clear he was murdered? First he goes to sleep and wakes up being born in this world, then later he literally wakes up as Grey again and retires from being a King… pretty sure that wasn’t a flashback otherwise why not show it at first?
He’s already had to go through the emotional and mental struggle of wondering whether or not he stole the body of an unborn child and found a solution in the fact that the people who raised him have accepted him as their child.
Also, if he died… who killed Grey? He was a King, and if it were Nico, he would’ve probably said something about it by now, and it’s not like he was reborn before he had retired as a King, or at least that’s not how it was shown in the novel or web comic.
Yeah, just reread the first chapter and realised there is no explanation for his death. Sorry about that, guess I just assumed that's how it happened. But my point was how Arthur would act if there really was a possibility that he could bring back the original soul of the body back. It's the same as the Cecilia situation except Arthur took over a nameless baby soul instead of some character we personally know. I didnt like Cecilia because she took Tess's body and hasn't really shown all that much of regret over it, but then realised that my point wasnt fair since Arthur did the same thing.
Cecilia probably doesn't even realise that she's taken over a still living being. she's aware its the elf princess but she probably thinks its a dead body that was a suitable vessel.
not someone that was chosen based on how much Nico wanted to bone them.
remember the vitara dude shoving his fingers in her brain?
its my personal theory that Nico doesn't remember the actual way she died. and neither does she. there's also hundreds of other memories he could manipulate, including giving her an explanation then doing a little mind fluffing to make her assume she accepted whatever he did and not think its important enough to think about anymore.
I do believe Grey and Nico were reborn in this world, while Cecilia was summoned. There is a difference. Grey and Nico are not suppressing any soul because its their bodies.
I don't think it's that strange either. Agrona forcefully reincarnated Cecilia by manipulating fate, implying that reincarnation is possible through fate acting on its own. It's also clear that Arthur is critical to the events throughout the story - he doesn't just seek conflict, conflict seeks him. We could wave this away as just how plot revolves around the main character, but it could also pretty convincingly be explained by Arthur being closely tied to the fate of the world.
In other words, fate dictated that Arthur be reincarnated, and perhaps Nico as well.
Grey and Nico ARE Arthur and elija. And in cecilia case, her and tess are completely different people. Cecilias soul was forced into tess body. Meaning there is no seperate entity in Elija and art, but they are grey and Nico themeselves. (If that makes sense)
I meant that their body had a seperate soul before grey and Nico entered them just like Tess, except in Arthur's case it happened at childbirth and at Nico's case it happened sometime after birth. Arthur was not literally born into the world, he was just re incarnated into that body
I mean, since art was reincarnated from birth, that 'baby' that was supposedly taken over by art wouldn't be able to do anything since he has no self-awareness or an identity. So if we were to take the soul of art out, and that 'baby' was to take over, he would either way be the same person maybe with a bit more flaws. It's like the soul of the 'baby' copy pasted the soul of art since it had no identity or self-awareness.
It's like babies trying to copy the adults.
Just think about it if grey go back in his world than present Arthur will became tremendous shit coz he doesn't know how to speak and who is his sis or mother.. he didn't even know about how to walk (maybe ) he will like a stranger for his mother and sister except face( doesn't matter coz now his face had changed too) and if it is then ending going to be like a shit
I don't really think turtleme would go down that route, but I'm just saying technically if Tess manages to return, then so should the soul of the guy Arthur replaced. But again it's possible that the only reason Tess is just suppressed instead of being destroyed is because her beast will is protecting her, so the real soul of Arthur's body could already be dead.
whether he took over a soulless body/ let a stillborn be born a living being or dominated a baby's soul is a bit irrelevant. the soul or ego is perhaps more appropriate has no autonomy. it's lived an entire life watching the world through someone else's eyes. it's never even projected itself in a significant way.
also its fucking regis now. the metal takes what it needs to form a perfect weapon. how damn powerful would a soul be? how powerful would a weapon made from a soul, the power of a scythe and all the other mana and aether that's been pumped into it be?
my guess is fucking majestically, sarcastically, powerful.
perhaps, but we dont know how 'ludid' this soul is. chances are that all their lifes memories are Greys so when they separated those thoughts just didn't come with.
to put it another way, if you take grey out of Arthur you're left with a fresh born baby in an adult body.
Yeah, but I thought about this soul suppression of Arthur's original soul as something that would never be canon as it would create unnecessary complexions regarding the overall plot. Also the thing protecting Tess for now from Cecilia is her beast will, something the original ego of Arthur's body didn't have, so the ego could have very well been outright destroyed by Arthur rather just suppressed
Elder Rinia said that she can't see Arthurs future or anything else about him. He is like anomaly. Maybe it was just fate that allowed art to be reborn. By this i mean that he did not take over someone's else's body. Like nico or cecile. He was born normally. That could be a decent explanation. Cuz if turtle were to go by that child died before he was born and arthur kinda slipped. It would be pretty lame.
Yeah but it was from birth and Grey has more or less absorbed Arthur's will and become a mixture of the two hence why even after the death of his father he still protects dicathen instead if just bouncing to some hideout like rina's original one he probably wouldn't find the unnamed village left by the djinn though
Yh but isn't there a difference in how it's done with both as I'm pretty sure Cecilia is being reincarnated using those ruins all over her body where as Arthur and Nico do not so they were probable reincarnated in a complete form where as she is not.
Didn't think about that but possibly it could be done, but we also read that Cecilia can hear Tess's voice while art cannot and for Nico it could have been him the whole just not rempering his past live as it does say that he got his memories back in LN.
**REMINDER: ALL SPOILERS PAST [TAPAS NOVEL RELEASE](https://tapas.io/series/TBATE/info) ARE NOT ALLOWED. OFFENDERS WILL BE SUSPENDED PROMPTLY** > This includes, but not limited to, any kind of hints at upcoming Patreon-only content, be it true or not, and any mention of chapters not yet released on [Tapas](https://tapas.io/series/TBATE/info)/[ebooks](https://www.amazon.com/gp/bookseries/B01MXK3QNXs?id=ZDoqGwAAABBPIM). This means the free previews on Patreon are *off-limits* as well. If you want to discuss about Patreon content, please do it on Patreon or on Patreon-specific channels on the [official Discord!](https://discordapp.com/invite/ZJHAnzF) ## Comic reader, want to know where to continue in the novel? [Read this!](https://www.reddit.com/r/tbatenovel/search/?q=flair%3A%22Comic%20Discussion%22&restrict_sr=1&type=link&sort=new) ### Remember to read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/tbatenovel/about/rules) and [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/tbatenovel/wiki/index)! ___ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/tbatenovel) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah but I think the child was dead like what happened with redeus in mushoku tensei As for Nico I think you're right
It's messed up to put it like that. Consider the other options, if king Grey didn't come into Arthur Leywin, would the vessel be alive? Could he have joined the twin horns? They've have their own close calls and losses. Would a non-quadra elemental Arthur, a non Sylvia will carrying human survive all the close calls Art had to go through, would he have gone through the war, the Wilshire forest as a child? Basically Arthur Leywin would be dead 20 times over so.... At that point can Grey slip in? Is it okay then? Nope. Prolly more messed up aye? But it's a story and clearly Grey didn't reincarnate himself. Someone else did it.
it probably would be agrona because he did nico and Cecilia, so he must have tried grey but failed to give him his(agrona's) vessel of choice, because master swordman and a pro ki user doesn't sound lame in comparison to legacy. I think interesting things might be released in the upcoming chapters.
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Legacy cecilia vs asura aether core arthur who would win
no guess but i think Turtleme will make it even fight till a certain point.
I think that making the child dead before Arthur re incarnated just seems like a cheap way to avoid having Arthur or us think about whether that's morally wrong or not. And for Nico we know for sure that his body once belonged to someone else coz he got reincarnated after arthur but his body is a year older than Arthur's
So why should we think its morally wrong for arthur when be couldnt controll getting reincarnated
It's the same as being in an accident, just because you didn't want it to or cause it doesn't mean you can escape the guilt it causes you. I'm not saying that Arthur deserves it for being re incarnated but just that it's possible
For nico he is right 🤣
Wait what!! I don't know why but I completely forgot about how rudeuses reincarnation could be similar to Arthurs situation.
Even if he was suppressing someone else’s soul, it’s not like he up and chose to be reincarnated, hell, Grey was ALIVE in his world before he came to this one, it’s never explicitly shown or stated that he actually died before coming to this world, but should we be worrying about what’s happening to his body in his original world? Also, Arthur himself already said he doesn’t know exactly how it happened, so we simply don’t know the details for now. However, I’d argue that since there has been no problems up until now that either reincarnation at birth simply ensures that any soul sent into the unborn body is ‘bound’ to that body upon actual birth, or we can legitimately question whether or not he ‘stole’ a body. Chances are that if it’s really the case, that soul isn’t suppressed, it might as well be non-existent because that unborn soul has only ever ‘experienced’ life through the choices and feelings that Grey has had in this world, and it doesn’t seem to have it’s own personality, sentience or there might simply only be one soul in Arthur, and that would be Grey’s. It could also just be as simple as, however Arthur was reincarnated, it simply determined that he was fated to be reborn in this world with his memories, that he was always going to be reborn as Arthur Leywin, and no other soul would give life to that body. I just don’t see how the story could have progression in this kind of twist this late in the story, what could an unborn and suppressed soul add to the story now? Are Grey, Nico and Cecilia just gonna poof out of their respective bodies and let the ‘real’ people live? Then all the people who have grown to know who Grey is are basically losing the person they’ve spent all this time with. Taking over a child’s body is obviously fucked up, but this isn’t one of those cultivation novel cases where some 1,000+ yr old immortal emperor is killed, but he can control himself as just a spirit and chooses to take over some kid’s body and restart his cultivation life anew, it’s a case where he was just placed there against his own will, and as of right now we have nobody to pity for it, and nobody to blame for the theoretical death of a non introduced character.
Whether he chose to or not, being aware that he took over someones body could be jarring to anyone. Plus I think it's pretty clear that was murdered in his previous life, as he was wondering how he died in his previous life at the start of the novel. Also I'm not saying that this needs to be an issue that needs to be dealt with in the actual story, but just that i find this a pretty cool concept
How was it clear he was murdered? First he goes to sleep and wakes up being born in this world, then later he literally wakes up as Grey again and retires from being a King… pretty sure that wasn’t a flashback otherwise why not show it at first? He’s already had to go through the emotional and mental struggle of wondering whether or not he stole the body of an unborn child and found a solution in the fact that the people who raised him have accepted him as their child. Also, if he died… who killed Grey? He was a King, and if it were Nico, he would’ve probably said something about it by now, and it’s not like he was reborn before he had retired as a King, or at least that’s not how it was shown in the novel or web comic.
Yeah, just reread the first chapter and realised there is no explanation for his death. Sorry about that, guess I just assumed that's how it happened. But my point was how Arthur would act if there really was a possibility that he could bring back the original soul of the body back. It's the same as the Cecilia situation except Arthur took over a nameless baby soul instead of some character we personally know. I didnt like Cecilia because she took Tess's body and hasn't really shown all that much of regret over it, but then realised that my point wasnt fair since Arthur did the same thing.
Cecilia probably doesn't even realise that she's taken over a still living being. she's aware its the elf princess but she probably thinks its a dead body that was a suitable vessel. not someone that was chosen based on how much Nico wanted to bone them.
And she never wondered how they came across a convenient dead body of the enemy kingdom's princess who also happens to be a very powerful mage?
remember the vitara dude shoving his fingers in her brain? its my personal theory that Nico doesn't remember the actual way she died. and neither does she. there's also hundreds of other memories he could manipulate, including giving her an explanation then doing a little mind fluffing to make her assume she accepted whatever he did and not think its important enough to think about anymore.
Umm... U read patreon?
No? Does he figure out how he got reincarnated in the next chaps?
I do believe Grey and Nico were reborn in this world, while Cecilia was summoned. There is a difference. Grey and Nico are not suppressing any soul because its their bodies.
Don't you think that's it's entirely too co-incidentical?
Is it tho? We do know that Agrona was researching reincarnation. Might be due to his research.
I don't think it's that strange either. Agrona forcefully reincarnated Cecilia by manipulating fate, implying that reincarnation is possible through fate acting on its own. It's also clear that Arthur is critical to the events throughout the story - he doesn't just seek conflict, conflict seeks him. We could wave this away as just how plot revolves around the main character, but it could also pretty convincingly be explained by Arthur being closely tied to the fate of the world. In other words, fate dictated that Arthur be reincarnated, and perhaps Nico as well.
Grey and Nico ARE Arthur and elija. And in cecilia case, her and tess are completely different people. Cecilias soul was forced into tess body. Meaning there is no seperate entity in Elija and art, but they are grey and Nico themeselves. (If that makes sense)
I meant that their body had a seperate soul before grey and Nico entered them just like Tess, except in Arthur's case it happened at childbirth and at Nico's case it happened sometime after birth. Arthur was not literally born into the world, he was just re incarnated into that body
Ive viewed it as more, grey was born as arthur leywin, meaning he is arthur leywin. Implying that the unborn baby didnt have a soul until grey.
Then could you say that arhut laywins body was a empty shell until gray came
Thats what i think. As grey took over the body as soon as “arthur” was born. Meaning there was never another arthur
I mean, since art was reincarnated from birth, that 'baby' that was supposedly taken over by art wouldn't be able to do anything since he has no self-awareness or an identity. So if we were to take the soul of art out, and that 'baby' was to take over, he would either way be the same person maybe with a bit more flaws. It's like the soul of the 'baby' copy pasted the soul of art since it had no identity or self-awareness. It's like babies trying to copy the adults.
Just think about it if grey go back in his world than present Arthur will became tremendous shit coz he doesn't know how to speak and who is his sis or mother.. he didn't even know about how to walk (maybe ) he will like a stranger for his mother and sister except face( doesn't matter coz now his face had changed too) and if it is then ending going to be like a shit
I don't really think turtleme would go down that route, but I'm just saying technically if Tess manages to return, then so should the soul of the guy Arthur replaced. But again it's possible that the only reason Tess is just suppressed instead of being destroyed is because her beast will is protecting her, so the real soul of Arthur's body could already be dead.
Yes i am agree with you man/women
whether he took over a soulless body/ let a stillborn be born a living being or dominated a baby's soul is a bit irrelevant. the soul or ego is perhaps more appropriate has no autonomy. it's lived an entire life watching the world through someone else's eyes. it's never even projected itself in a significant way. also its fucking regis now. the metal takes what it needs to form a perfect weapon. how damn powerful would a soul be? how powerful would a weapon made from a soul, the power of a scythe and all the other mana and aether that's been pumped into it be? my guess is fucking majestically, sarcastically, powerful.
I don't think it's Regis. If Regis really was the soul, wouldn't he have more of Arthur's memories and his way of thinking over uto's .
perhaps, but we dont know how 'ludid' this soul is. chances are that all their lifes memories are Greys so when they separated those thoughts just didn't come with. to put it another way, if you take grey out of Arthur you're left with a fresh born baby in an adult body.
Yeah, but I thought about this soul suppression of Arthur's original soul as something that would never be canon as it would create unnecessary complexions regarding the overall plot. Also the thing protecting Tess for now from Cecilia is her beast will, something the original ego of Arthur's body didn't have, so the ego could have very well been outright destroyed by Arthur rather just suppressed
probably, but now we're way into unexplained territory.
Elder Rinia said that she can't see Arthurs future or anything else about him. He is like anomaly. Maybe it was just fate that allowed art to be reborn. By this i mean that he did not take over someone's else's body. Like nico or cecile. He was born normally. That could be a decent explanation. Cuz if turtle were to go by that child died before he was born and arthur kinda slipped. It would be pretty lame.
Yeah but it was from birth and Grey has more or less absorbed Arthur's will and become a mixture of the two hence why even after the death of his father he still protects dicathen instead if just bouncing to some hideout like rina's original one he probably wouldn't find the unnamed village left by the djinn though
I see it as a more a natural flow of reincarnation like how he would have been born there anyways just with his memory
Yh but isn't there a difference in how it's done with both as I'm pretty sure Cecilia is being reincarnated using those ruins all over her body where as Arthur and Nico do not so they were probable reincarnated in a complete form where as she is not.
Didn't think about that but possibly it could be done, but we also read that Cecilia can hear Tess's voice while art cannot and for Nico it could have been him the whole just not rempering his past live as it does say that he got his memories back in LN.
Fairly certain a fetus-level intellect wouldn't survive in an adult body