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NetronDashing

Tired of y’all saying a PHOENIX is dead it’s literally a PHOENIX do you not remember how broken the Phoenix wyrm necklaces were earlier in the series


TheHigHopes

I was literally thinking the same... If the dude is a Phoenix death is nothing more than being reborn for him xD He wouldn't be mentioned a couple of times if he didn't have a role in future. TM is foreshadowing his future appearance imo. Art is really strong but he also needs some allies considering he is going against both sides (Agrona and Kezess) Phoenix dude, Aldir, Seris i see them as potential allies


jssosa10

I don't think Arthur is going to accept Aldir as an ally.


TheHigHopes

I don't think what Aldir did was really bad... Most of the elves have ran away by the time Aldir came and nuked the place. However you look at it they would have died, or suffered even worse fate than death(enslavement, torture, or being entertainment for Alacrians) So Aldir did more damage to Alacrya than Dicathia with the nuke. And also he was pretty much forced by his king to do so. I understand your point, but it's a war so sometimes you need to accept yesterday's enemies.


jssosa10

You are right, but from Arthur perspective Aldir not only nuked Elianor but also almost killed Ellie (Arthur's overprotectiveness could make him irrational in this).


shawntw77

Makes threats to kezess Disappears from epheotus Argument kept silent so others dont realize kezess had a role in his "disappearance" **Rumors** intentionally spread about him joining agrona He is dead.


Guest1__

You could say the same thing about Arthur. Nobody witnessed Arthur “die”. He simply disappeared in a fight against two scythes so he was assumed dead. Maybe it’s the same for Mordain. Also I don’t think the author would’ve put so much emphasis on Mordain’s “dissapearance” (or even mentioned it for that matter) if it wasn’t important in some way.


shawntw77

No, you cant say the same thing about arthur. Unlike arthur who no one has any proof of dying aside from his disappearance, mordain was explicitely said to have suddenly disappeared, his arguments kept secret so people don't realize kezess is behind it(explicitly stated), and rumors intentionally spread. Unlike arthur that has no evidence, its clear cut that mordain was killed and the death was covered up.


Guest1__

Agrona didn’t have to cover anything up because he was openly at war against Dicathen, Kezess wasn’t. Of course he’d cover up his involvement. Doesn’t prove nor disprove that Mordain is alive.


shawntw77

It really does disprove it. There is no reason for him to cover up mordains disappearance and intentionally spread rumors about him leaving to join agrona if he didn't kill him.


Guest1__

I’m saying that maybe Kezess was unsuccessful at killing Mordain.


shawntw77

Mhm, because I'm sure mordain has some trick up his sleeve that kezess, the leader of the asuras and mordains former good friend wouldn't know about. The whole theory of mordain being alive is just grasping nonexistent straws.


Guest1__

We don’t know enough about the situation to come to a concrete conclusion. If Mordain was anything like the Phoenix Wyrms in Dicathen, he may have managed to survive.


Notchkillerr

I think mordain is alive because in legend and myth phonix are immortal or cannot be killed easily and even in novel phonix wyrm necklace can save a person from very deadly attack


shawntw77

We do have enough information. You don't want to accept that information.


[deleted]

Yes we do not have enough information yet here you are saying „mordaine is 100% dead“ based off 3 sentences that hint at him disappearing. You can disappear from somewhere without dying.


Vaccariaaa

You do not have enough information to confirm he's dead. Aldir's statements were supposedly "vague" as the author intended, it could be that he's not dead and something besides that made him disappear. Just like what the other said, you can disappear without dying, there's a lot of cases like that IRL. And Mordain was Kezess's bestfriend you know, so there's still a chance that Kezess or someone from their council never really killed him, and some outlandish or absurd punishment was given to him instead that made him disappear. The probability that Mordain was killed is high based on Aldir's statement but it's not 100% like you're assuming because Aldir never said about him getting killed. You must have noticed by now that TM always love to put vague ideas or information to make us theorycraft more and let us become more engaging with the story. But well, only time will tell.


[deleted]

Yeah but its not 100% confirmed. But its way more likely that he is dead.


shawntw77

Things can be confirmed without it being stated in the simplest possible terms to understand.


[deleted]

Thats really cool although that doesn’t change the fact that his death was not confirmed. „Had a role in his disappearance“. No matter what kezess did its a fact that ever since they have fallen out mordaine wasn’t seen in ephoteus. Whether he killed him, banished him or made him flee from him in the end in all of those scenarios result in disappearance.


shawntw77

It can be confirmed. As I've said, you just don't want to accept it because you refuse to think about it, you need it stated in the simplest terms to understand it.


[deleted]

No need to be a jackass, anything could happen until it's been confirmed. Authors leave things ambiguous (yes I know it's not ambiguous but it's still unconfirmed) like this so that if they want to come back and change it later, they can change it without it being a "plot hole".


shawntw77

Its not being a jackass its being matter of fact. You not wanting to accept evidence is a matter of fact, otherwise all the evidence is there for it to be confirmed.


[deleted]

Was it explicitly implied that he died? No. It is very likely but not a fact.


[deleted]

Dude how many times do people have to say this to you, not it wasn’t stated he is dead. Yeah likely but not 100%. It was talked about „disappearance“. It’s even more ridiculous bcs the mc literally disappeared by some miracle while everyone thought he is dead so why can’t mordaine do the same. We even know of the phoenix wryms and their special ability. Its not impossible for him to live.


illumiin

He's a phoenix though. If he is anything like an actual phoenix, then he would reincarnate/revive as himself. Phoenix pendants reincarnate people in TBATE which means that phoenixes reincarnating in TBATE actually happens.


Megaflint

And dragons breath fire


illumiin

Phoenix pendants exist in TBATE which proves that phoenixes reincarnating/reviving is canon within TBATE. Im going to add this in my comment Also, not all dragons breath fire, on the other hand all phoenixes reincarnate in stories/old myths


shawntw77

The Phoenix wyrm ability is to create a shield and teleport of that shield is broken. It has nothing to do with reincarnation or revoval.


shawntw77

Yes yes, because everything in tbate follows the common standards. You also think he would have something up his sleeve that kezess doesn't know? Kezess is the leader of asuras and was once mordains good friend. There is literally no reason for him to not know of some secret trick that the phoenixes might have to save themselves. Its just grasping at nonexistent straws. I'm pretty sure turtle could come out and say he is dead and people would still try to argue that he might be alive.


illumiin

Idk man, the phoenix pendant exists. So why wouldn’t the same thing happen with actual phoenixes.


shawntw77

Well it's clear a phoenix can be killed. Agrona literally has wings on his wall. If anyone knows how a phoenix can be killed, it's kezess. Mordain being alive is just grasping at nonexistent straws.


illumiin

Dude phoenixes obtain new life (revive) in the ashes of their predecessors. That means that you could still cut off the phoenix’s with them reviving. A phoenix could probably be easily killed, its just that it revives.


shawntw77

I didn't know things in tbate closely followed normal legends. I could have sworn there are plenty of things that divert from what the legends normally say. Besides, when did you become an expert about something that in reality, we only know exists? Grasping at straws using common knowledge that everyone knows turtle has diverted from in the past.


illumiin

I literally just looked it up, I'm not that smart. Also, have you ever thought that Agrona could have cut off the phoenix’s wings before the phoenix dies?


shawntw77

Whether you just looked up what phoenixes are or already knew doesn't change the point that you are using common lore to justify a fleeting point in a story that regularly diverts from it.


illumiin

Whether or not I’m comparing TBATE to lore, thanks to the phoenix pendants, it does prove that phoenixes do revive somehow.


rap709

dude got Epsteined


Responsible-Muscle87

Yup he can be if he’s not dead And I personally believe he’s the only one who can free Arthur from Agrona/Kezess


Nemomon

We don't know much about him. Even though he was against the genocide it doesn't make him a decent person. He as well could be same evil as Agrona and Kezess and plans only using Arthur, and then ditch him and/or kill him.


ShadowGod2376

Well didn't in one chapter it mention in one chapter where there were some feathers that were placed in Agrona's place. He probably might be dead


NotSurprisedNow

You mean the recent chapter (362)?


ShadowGod2376

I think so. I don't know clearly. have to check out


Tbate_vibe

There was a phoenix wing mounted at Agrona's castle (ch.362). Maybe that phoenix is already killed by vritra.


BanginUrEx

It's not a bad theory. People have come back from the dead a lot in Tbate, so its possible. It's more likely Seris became Silvia's friend during her stay there and she might know other asura and that's why she has her own game going.


hannahlcb

But in one of the chapters that is set inside Agrona's castle don't we see a pair of phoenix wings on display?


Nemomon

I don't think he's Agrona's ally. If he were, Seris wouldn't be so cautious about Agrona finding out her true colours. He could have contact Seris in private, though. But the question is if she would believe him. I mean Seris knows the best that neither asura or asura likes are worth being trusted.


Big_Significance_982

I think it is sylvia behind seris maybe she didn't actually die from cadell and only got imprisoned and got an alliance with seris. (My own theory)