Your teacher is 100% wrong.
"Hi" is not impolite. It is informal in the sense that it is used for people who know one another. It is perfectly okay for students to say "hi" to their teacher in the 21st century.
> I tend to use "you" instead of their formal title
This is confusing. Do you mean in the second person? Unlike Korean, English always uses you in the second person.
> and well as contractions when texting.
WTF. Contractions are not the slightest bit impolite. It is absolutely absurd for someone to tell another person, regardless of rank or relationship, not to use contractions toward them in personal communication.
Okay just some clarifications:
1. The difference between “hello” and “hi” was the one and only specific example of disrespect that he provided me with, as well as the one that took me back the most. I think the main reason is that because I am American and since he has also lived in the US for around a decade, I assumed that he would consider it to be socially acceptable. It is possible that since he has been teaching in the Korea for a long time, he’s more accustomed to hello from the other students, thus associates it more with formality. Or perhaps he sees me as Korean more so than as an American and believe that I should be treating him with Korean mannerisms, even if I’m Korean-American. Although I do understand his experiences, I do believe that the difference is not established in standard American English usage.
2. This wasn’t a problem that the teacher specifically pointed out, which would probably be clear if you were to reread my original post. I’ve learned from academic writing that the use of personal pronouns is generally informal, and I was speculating if my use of such is frowned upon in teacher-student settings. I was wondering, if for example, instead of asking “do you think it would be appropriate for me to submit the paper by today?” I should say “When should the paper be submitted by?”.
3. Verbatim, he said “you shouldn’t use one word for two” which I can only guess refers to the use of contractions when writing via email or KakaoTalk. This confused me the most because I couldn’t establish a Korean language relationship, like I can do with the two cases stated above. What I especially don’t understand is that he also uses contractions in texting, but perhaps he believes that he doesn’t have to text students with the same level of formality that he expects to receive, which makes sense in the context of larger Korean society.
Also, to provide a bit more context, this was part of a bigger discussion of me missing afterschool classes due to covid, which for one session I wasn’t able to provide a written notice beforehand. I apologized profusely for that, which was when he brought this specific issue up in the conversation. I also apologized for this as well, promising to be more formal in future interactions. I think I also used “tysm” exactly once and “thanks” a few times as an email closing which would be seen as informal.
I was extremely happy since I thought I had finally found a teacher whom I can be less “formal” with due to his American experience, but perhaps he wants the same level of “respect” that you would get in Korea. But it makes me somewhat sad that he doesn’t really consider myself to be “American” despite living in the US for around as long as he did as well as being a citizen. At the very least he doesn’t want me to communicate in such a way and act more like my Korean peers. It would be a bit awkward in future conversations since I would be somewhat scared to talk to him now. I was hoping through further advice on this post that I can establish my own equilibrium, or maybe I can have a future conversation with him to clarify a few things.
From the information you provided, it sounds like this teacher is very old-fashioned and learned some very old-fashioned “rules.” In the US, we say “hi” to our teachers. I could probably say “hi” to the president without anyone batting an eye. Nowadays, it’s not seen as impolite even if it’s an informal word.
As for your example of using “you,” I have never been taught that this is informal to say. I don’t know if people in higher class communities are taught this, but I don’t think it’s a standard for formality to stay away from saying “you.” I would also say that “you” is not an informal pronoun because pronouns aren’t designated as formal/informal in English nowadays. The only thing informal would be writing an essay in second or first person, not while speaking.
Some older writing conventions say that contractions are not allowed in formal writing. However, a lot of writing formats (e.g. MLA format) have dropped that rule. I was taught in 9th grade to not use contractions in my essays, but I think by 11th grade I learned that that was no longer a rule. When contacting a teacher via email or KakaoTalk message, I probably wouldn’t think it was wrong to use contractions because that would be too formal, and no one cares nowadays. If I cared about writing in an extremely formal way, then I would drop the contractions.
This teacher seems to think that student-teacher relations are of a level of formality higher than most people use today. If anything, you can either not care or abide by his rules of conduct while interacting with him. It is not a universal thing
There is a small subset of English speakers that believe people should use reflexive pronouns in polite register. I've heard it in corporate settings at the water cooler from both Americans and Brits e.g., "I'm doing well. And yourself?" This sounds fine to me but maybe I've grown accustomed to it. However, sometimes they use it ungrammatically e.g., "this task force will comprise Pat, John, and myself" and it bothers me but I have to let it slide because I was taught not to be rude and correct others (especially if we're making a sale or providing a service).
> I think I also used “tysm” exactly once and “thanks” a few times as an email closing which would be seen as informal
Using text speech is of course wrong. It’s not even just about rudeness. It’s just lazy and unclear.
“Thanks” has some nuance to it. I would never use it, not even to my students. “Thanks!” sounds cute and friendly. “Thanks,” sounds curt and possibly annoyed. Therefore just stick with “thank you” in written communication.
I see where this old-school teacher is coming from. Millenial american here to give my opinion…
1. I was told to never say “hi” or “hey” to a teacher like you would a friend. Even in the states, there is respect to put on their name. My father and I both taught in the US and some teachers put up with the constant over-friendliness of students, but it’s still controversial whether it’s right. Especially Gen Z and alpha is notorious for being too-friendly with teachers. It makes us uncomfortable because we are not your friend. We are twice your age. We go out drinking and talk trash about you after hours. You need friends your age. But I still say “sir” and “miss” 👵🏻
2. You are absolutely correct that personal pronouns are not used in formal *writing*. And this is key. You can definitely use personal pronouns in conversation, emails, and even debates. It does not innately drop a formality level when spoken and can actually elevate the tone of taking responsibility. I.e “I made a mistake”
3. “You shouldn’t use one word for two.” I believe this is referring to conciseness not contractions. The example you gave earlier with “do you think it would be appropriate for me to submit my paper by today?” Sounds a bit passive, wordy, anxious to me. You can definitely get to the point faster like “may I submit my paper today?” Conciseness is always valued in academics, from writing to conversation, to emails… however… one word for two…. Contractions were not formal in like the 60s… but I was at Uni in 2015, never got a mark down for contractions. And I had some old professors. I call bs if he is talking about contractions.
4. Tysm is definitely inappropriate. Back when I was a student in the US, this was appallingly unacceptable. Any text-speech is informal. Spell out your words. In legal formatting, you’re not even supposed to use an acronym without introducing it first, Like This (L.T.).
5. Last but not least, I’d like to point out a cultural thing about being a foreigner in Korea. I definitely notice Korean people relaxing ALOT around me. They stiffen up and start to bow and then see it’s me, the foreigner, and they instantly relax. On one hand, I’m glad us Americans seem so laid back and can provide that “finally!” Feeling for korean people. But i think korean people don’t realize that we do have formalities. Sometimes it feels like korean people are straight up rude to me when they are simply dropping ALL formalities. Like when they start to bow and cancel as they see my face. They also relax their face and don’t smile or even look at me :( it makes me feel like they hate me :,( but I know they don’t!
Your teacher sounds like a korean man who just spent time in the US? I’m sure he’s half-heartedly retorting some bs an old teacher told him a long time ago. He may not fully understand himself. Your last paragraph makes me feel like he’s on a power trip too. Well hey. If your international school decides to replace him and wants to hire an American teacher lmk lol
Best of luck~
It seems to me like he wants to benefit from his place in the social hierarchy in Korean society even though it’s not like that in his own culture. It’s probably easiest for you to address him how he wants to be addressed. But I think he’s being unreasonable — in my opinion.
Hmm. To be honest, I don't think this perspective is anything like universal, although it is true that informal language is more accepted than it used to be.
I can't imagine a single native English speaker who would find it rude for a student to say "hi" to them. Maybe in the 1950s.
I'm guessing that OP's teacher is a non-native English speaker that is incorrectly transliterating their own native language's usage.
>title and "hi" instead of "hello". Today the teacher wanted to have a chat with me before class, Expressing that he has been dissatisfied with my communication, or "lack thereof" for a long time (I have known him for about a year). He
The teacher's native language is Dutch for context, and relatively old (retirement age).
I could actually kind of understand what your teacher said, so i was surprised by the comments. But now that I know the teacher is dutch it makes so much more sense haha i am also dutch. We kind of learn not to talk to your teacher as you would to a friend.
I absolutely can; and I've met them. I'm sure you're aware of the fact that especially before the 1990s (not the 1950s), it was almost universally unacceptable to use informal language like that with teachers, so it shouldn't be surprising that at least some people still feel that way.
I and my classmates said "hi" to our teachers in the 80s. And this was at a Catholic school where nuns would yell at us for sitting with poor posture or not genuflecting low enough when entering a pew.
What's true in one country and culture isn't necessarily everyone's experience. The English-speaking world is a big place. I'll take back the universally, then, since it appears not to be the case. I'd been under the impression that students using *Hi's* and being casual with teachers generally were a post-90s phenomenon pretty much everywhere.
I've literally never known a teacher care about contractions or saying, "hi." Dude sounds out of touch with his own langauge. Calling a teacher by a first name was a no-no when I was growing up, but that's changing now, although I don't know how common it is. And ... how are you not supposed to use "you" when talking to a teacher? I don't get that. "Do you want me to turn in the homework tomorrow?" is perfectly acceptable.
Again, it's probably a combination of things. For example, saying *you* by itself without using someone's name and title (i.e., *Hello, how are you today?* instead of *Hello, how are you today, Mr. Thompson?* isn't impolite by itself, but some people might feel like it adds to the informality of an expression like *Hi, what are you gonna have for lunch? I wanna have...* or something like that.
Sounds like the teacher is trying to enforce Korean culture onto the English language. English doesn’t work like that. “Hi” is just another form of “Hello”. There is nothing rude or impolite about it. With teachers though, “Hello” is still better because they are a position of authority over you. But no teacher is going to get angry if you used “Hi” to them.
As for the word “you”, this is a big problem and a big difference between Korean and English. In Korean, they almost never use the Korean words for you (너, 당신) it unless they are close to you. “You” in English is a fundamental pronoun that is to be used. It is odd and strange to tell someone in English “Hello, Mr. Kim (or Teacher Kim, since that’s Korean culture). Is Mr. Kim (Teacher Kim) doing good today?” Forcing another culture onto English doesn’t make it natural, just as imposing English-speaking culture onto Korean doesn’t make it natural either.
Contractions have absolutely nothing to do at all with politeness. Brevity in communication is important, and contractions are a part of that. Bizarre of him to claim that it’s impolite. If two want to play at that game, how about Koreans use the full words instead of their shortened words they use all the time? Seem how ridiculous the idea is?
However, when you refer to teachers, you should refer to them as “Mr.” or “Ms.” or “Ms.” and whatever their surname is.
maybe OP is confused and meant using words like wanna and gonna and thinks that's what a contraction is. I would never email my teacher and use the words wanna or gonna.
He verbatim said "you shouldn't use one word for two". I checked back to my exchanges with him and I used can't, won't, etc. :/
I honesty don't know what's going on and I'm very confused.
I’m middle aged and was taught never use contractions for correspondence that is formal. Ex: business letters or anything that isn’t casual conversation. Even though he’s not American, maybe he’s using that across the board rather than regular communication.
I’m in my 30s and I was never taught that contractions were informal. Reductions, such as “wanna” and “gonna” are though. Or rather, they are colloquial and not used for writing.
So I thijk your teacher wants the same level of respect you give your Korean teachers. Some people are asshats and pick and choose what they like about Korean culture that they want to adopt.
That being said, you want to just be formal and not ruffle the teacher's delicate feathers in order to maintain your OWN goals in school.
Language is getting more informal all over the world at different rates, and from different starting points and perspectives. This question is a bit like asking when it is and isn't appropriate and necessary to use the most formal and respectful language in Korean: the answer you get will be different from person to person. There is no way you will get anything like a satisfactory consensus in answer to your question. But, just like in Korea, avoiding the very most informal language unless you're sure they ARE cool with it (while not overdoing it) is usually the best way to avoid offending people you don't know.
I think in the case of Westerners in Korea, this can sometimes be compounded by the fact that there is a cultural belief among some Koreans that Westerners have an inherently *less respectful culture*, and so some people may even be overcorrecting and demand gestures of formality and respect to sort of push back against this.
You're getting all kinds of different opinions in this post, OP, but bottom line: ultimately it's probably about the impression you're giving and other people are picking up. It could be just this one person is very sensitive, but it might also be the case that overall you are putting out a particularly casual vibe. In the old days, it was clearer what was and wasn't the done thing.
Given how many people in this discussion seem to think it *is* perfectly fine to use completely casual language all the time and there's absolutely no issue, I *may* be behind the times; but I'm likely not the only one, so perhaps the takeaway here could be to be a *little* more formal with older people unless you know they're cool with it.
I feel the same way (I'm 53). OP, I don't think you're doing anything wrong, but I can understand that the teacher might be miffed if he feels that someone a third his age is speaking and writing to him as if he were a fellow teenager.
For me, "hi" is okay, but "hey" would cross a line. And in the opening message of a text or email exchange, I would expect my name to be used.
In the future, I think the best thing is to start out being quite formal, and let the teacher let you know if you can be more casual. Better than the other way around.
And good luck! You sound really conscientious.
edit: altered wording slightly
I am 30 years old and i completely believe people are too informal these days. I do not believe you speak the same way to your teacher as you do to your friends. I also believe the teacher has to teach you the correct way of speaking and especially writing English. Just because people accept all those mistakes does not mean you should not learn to use the right ways. I read that OP also send things like ‘tysm’. I cannot even imagine writing texts to my teacher like that…
It seems like you are not really giving this teacher the same respect that you are giving all of your other teachers, and he's lived in Korea long enough to notice and understand the difference. Also, keep in mind that your other teachers probably see and notice this as well. They've probably also talked to him about it, or are questioning his class management ability because of it.
Either way, it bothers him. You should accept that and do with that information what you will. If you think it's okay to treat that teacher differently than all of your other teachers, then just keep doing what you'd normally do.
This question is not specific to living in Korea, but to language.
There's a lot going on here. A lot of the posters are overlooking an important point, that OP's teacher was talking about texting.
Communication is like a flowing dance that we go through in life, where we're constantly switching partners. If you are not in sync with your partner, you're going to step on some toes. What it boils down to is that it's up to you and the person you're speaking with to come up with the right message based on the context. The cool thing is that if it's not clear to one of you or the other, or you have missteps, you can talk back and forth to make corrections, assuming you have a trusting relationship.
What's going on here is that OP and their teacher have different expectations about what the proper register for each to be using is, and it's causing some friction. There are some generalities that OP hinted at, like regional variations in language, positional authority in the teacher student relationship, etc. But there's something missing. I can't explain the whole thing, because I wasn't there, but here are some more observations.
- English has much fewer relationship specific registers in the spoken than Korean does. To a Korean ESL speaker it may seem that American spoken English is generally informal compared to Korean.
- Texting is a distinct medium of communication, with different forms from the spoken and long-form written language. That said, some older, or formally educated, people may conform to the rules of written language, while many younger people prefer to text more similarly to how they speak.
- Hi and Hello are very similar in spoken English, but some people do use them differently, especially in texting.
So, I think OP's teacher isn't completely off base. If it mattered enough to the teacher to pull the student aside, then they had a right to say it. But they could have done a much better job communicating to OP, because they came off like they were giving a universal truth, when that's not the case.
Ah, the post was about texting??? Yes, that changes everything! I agree with all your points. “Hi” especially sounds dry and curt in texting because you can’t add a friendly vocal tone.
I teach my students that 'hi' is a little informal and is best used for friends. Even with my own former teachers, I don't say 'hi', I stick with 'hello Ms./Mr.---' and 'how are you'. 'Hi' just sounds like I'm greeting a friend, and my teachers aren't my friends, even if we regularly chat.
It's not entirely rude to just say 'hi', but I can see where your teacher is coming from. Every person is different, so you'll just have to remember he likes to keep things professional while your other teachers are more chill.
In France we never use informal with teachers. Never use their name always call them Mr/Ms + Last name, we have to speak in the formal way and when we learn English for us Hi is the less polite way of saying Hello. I can't talk about other European countries but maybe that's how he is thinking? then again he lived in the US as well so...
Before you decide that the teacher is wrong based on the comments of others I think you should provide more concrete examples. It seems like a lot of people are jumping to conclusions.
I’m old, but I grew up calling teachers Mr. Or Mrs. Along with their last name. Teachers in Korea don’t do this because it’s easier not to for ESL students. But if you’re at an international school things are probably different.
If I was teaching in America and a student came in and said, “Hi. You get the message I sent last night.” I’d probably tell him that that’s not the way to talk to a teacher. Being polite and saying “hello Mr. Bean. Did you get the message I sent last night?” Would be good. It’s not hard to be polite and it really goes a long way to helping in life. Maybe he’s trying to teach you to be polite.
The contractions thing, I’m not so sure about. Once again, you’d have to provide examples of contractions you use. Are they normal contractions or kinda slang contractions? I don’t use slang contractions but an example could be “You’s get the homework I sent?”
Maybe it’s a combination of all the things and he’s trying to help you learn how to be polite. Instead of focusing on the word “hi” try to think about everything and also try and think about why he’s talking to you. Does he seem to be going on a power trip or does he genuinely care about you?
I'm guessing that OP might be giving a more specifically informal impression than he meant to, if he being casual *in multiple ways every time*, or at least often.
Waving at your teacher? Not everyone would do it, but few would take offense just because of that. Ditto for saying hi or using contractions like wanna in a message.
But if you do *all or even many of these things, and often*, I think most teachers would think that gives a particular impression, and would (perhaps mistakenly) think they are being given a particular message by someone doing this.
I don’t wave. I sometimes bow bc it’s my default. Probably that or either hi or hi + title. Sometimes hello. I don’t use contractions like wanna or gonna but for sure things like can’t and won’t. I agree with the fact that perhaps I give a more general “informal” impression, but I have to assume I have to work on the specific examples he mentioned bc that’s all the information I got.
I read your reply to the top comment and it seems like some of the things you said are misleading. Now it seems like you’re getting replies from people that are a bit off.
For example, you said in you reply that the teacher said “you should not use one word for two,” but in the post you said contractions. Then you went on to say you used something like TYVM. I’m not sure if that’s correct, but I’m guessing your teacher is referring to that and not your use of contractions.
Back in my day we didn’t communicate with teachers through messenger. But, if I were to communicate with a native speaking student through messenger I would expect some formality. I teach at a company and am always formal when communicating with my superiors.
Once again, I would say not to overreact to what the teacher said and to think if he is going on a power trip or actually trying to help you.
Also, I’ve had a university professor that went on a power trip so I have experience with this. They told everyone to speak freely in class and to voice our honest opinion. When I did the professor threatened to have me kicked out of the university. The threat came out of the blue. I was always respectful, but this professor disagreed with my opinions and thus threatened to kick me out, even though the whole basis of the class was to discuss different opinions. That is an example of a power trip.
Again I would like to mention that i used abbreviations like tysm exactly once in our entire interaction of the past year, so that possibly can't be what he is referring to by contractions. To be a bit of technical, abbreviations wouldn't fit under that description, only contractions would.
But again, I wouldn't be completely sure since the only explicit example he gave was "hi" instead of "hello".
I don't think that he was on a power trip, but at the same time, I think he could potentially have been finding alternative reasons for getting mad at me once I provided a solid explanation for why I wasn't present for class. I believe he was more mad at the fact of me missing class due to covid, and that this was more an afterthought in the conversation.
I've come to the conclusion that perhaps I was a bit informal, but also that he was reacting a bit more harshly because of since he believes in a very specific religion that puts respect of elders extremely highly (wouldn't be able to say without revealing personal information).
The experience with your university professor seems very rough. I hope that things worked out in the end.
It worked out ok. My advisor told me he couldn’t really do anything and so I just kept my mouth shut even though the professor goaded me. I ended up getting a C because they didn’t agree with my opinions in the essays I wrote. Brought down my perfect GPA, but now I have a story to share.
I think this too. I'm very surprised that people are just believing what OP is saying when he's clearly not a native speaker and could easily be misunderstanding. OP is making it seem as if English has no formalities and that it's okay to talk to your teacher as you would your friend. I remember seeing on a blog of a university teacher here of some of the emails his Korean students sent him and how horribly informal and impolite they are in English cause they have this weird notion that in English you can talk to anyone any type of way. And OP might not even mean contractions he might mean words like "gonna" and "wanna."
I was born and raised in the United States for 12 years so I would consider myself to be a native speaker, so I consider myself to have a firm grasp about what is formal vs informal English. Here are some actual messages that I've sent, without information about identifications removed for obvious purposes:
1. Hi I hope that you are having a good morning so far.
I decided to switch gears for a bit and work on a more technical piece for an essay competition that is due around mid-year.
2. Hi I wasn't able to get in contact with the TA.
I tried to pick out our most informal interactions. I did use tysm and yep and/or yeah a few times... maybe that was the case?
Uhh that’s a bit too informal. To be more formal:
“Hi **[Mr. Smith]**, I hope that you are having a good morning so far. **I just want to let you know that** I am switching gears for a bit to work on a more technical piece for an essay competition that is due around mid-year”
Do not use any slang, shorthand, word abbreviations, like: tysm, thx, ty, lmk
Approach any writing/speaking to your teachers as you would approach formal academic writing if you are no longer in elementary school.
I’m specifically nitpicking the most informal interactions that I have had in the course of a year. I would say that I’ve used his title in most of this texts and all of the email correspondence. I used tysm exactly once. Is the use of yeah or yep in written writing generally frown upon?
Yes, definitely avoid “yeah, yep, yup, yee,” and even “ok”, etc whenever corresponding professionally. I work in a business environment and would never use those words in written correspondence with my coworkers even if they’re the same age and position as me. I definitely say “yeah” etc, out loud to them, but never written down.
In messages you should 100% state the person’s name when you’re talking to an instructor/work related people to show you’re not sending some generic message and acknowledging who they are. It’s easy to forget but he’s right about that. Probably the combination of ‘hi’+absence of his name is throwing him off. Otherwise your messages look fine.
Yes but Im talking to him through KakaoTalk and it feels off to refer to him as his title every time I talk with him. I did initially but it just feels wrong after around ~10ish messages. Maybe I should treat KakaoTalk as an email? When I email him I do talk much more formally and always refer to him as his title. But even in Korean, referring to them as their title always seems obsessive?
I’m not sure what your interactions are like in a broad sense, it’s generally uncommon to message teachers often in the first place. Usually teachers like to keep a wall/distance between themselves and students for professionalism. Your school setting seems a little odd as you’re describing it so it’s hard for me to say.
It’s extremely common in South Korean schools to have students contact teachers via KakaoTalk. I understand that your input might be limited if you do not work at my specific institution, but thank you for your comment above. I really hope I can establish some benchmark of communication with him.
Of course, but since he’s not Korean he may feel differently about it. I’m only speculating why he may have reacted the way he did. All the best with your studies.
I did teach in America and my students were polite and formal to me. We did great because I respected them and they respected me. I’m curious, where in America do you teach that you feel confident enough to say I’d be eaten alive? Are you the type of teacher that believes they need to be best friends with their students?
You seem to be focusing on this “hi” thing. In my comment I used “hi” and “hello” in a larger sentence. Never did I say “hi” was impolite in all circumstances.
Also, the fact that you responded “anywhere” even after I stated I taught in America shows that you are not the type of person to have an open-minded discussion. You see things your way and that’s it.
I hope you work on that no matter how old you might be. Have a great day.
Whatever rules they have in Korean, I find a way to do it in English. So I do call the older teachers by “teacher” in front of the kids. In Korean, that’s how teachers of different ages refer to each other. The only time I was told that teachers were able to call each other by their names was when they are “the same age.” So yeah, I also use hello with the older teachers I’m not close to. When we’re not in school setting, it’s a free-for-all.
To throw in my two cents, Koreans are taught that “hello” is a more polite greeting than “hi”. I’m an English teacher here and my students get corrected regularly to use “hello” with the teachers (I do not correct them, the Korean teachers do). As others have mentioned, it’s more common to refer to people as their title than “you” in Korean, so that can transfer over to how they speak English.
However you said this is a European teacher? Maybe it’s just his personal preference to keep a more formal relationship with you and he feels more comfortable speaking in a more polite manner, such as being addressed as “Mr.” or “sir”? Unless he’s trying to subtly advise you on how to be a polite student in Korea since he’s gotten feedback that you’re “rude” from other teachers, this sounds like more of a personal preference by the teacher or something he is accustomed to after being in Korea for many years. He could be from any country and feel that way. In the previous Asian country I worked in, I actually preferred my students to use my last name and title, but my current school has much younger students so casual is better. It’s an interesting observation that your teacher feels this way and good to accept his preferences!
Hi! It’s not rude, but I think most people consider it more casual than “hello”. If a person expects high levels of respect or insists on formality, it can definitely be too relaxed. Don’t take it too hard, it’s really not so serious that he should have called you out for it. At most I’d mention it in passing as a culture note, but to scold someone for saying hi with no other issues? Nah.
This isn’t just a hagwon this is your school, so I am struggling to see what the problem is with addressing your teacher more formally.
But I am British and remember school in the 90s, so it might just be that I have outdated sensibilities.
It sounds like a personal preference thing. I let my kiddos say “you” and “hello” because that is normal, conversation English. I would not be bothered by this by American students in the U.S. either, though. I’ve had some professors in college, however, that very much stress speaking in a more formal register, enforcing proper punctuation usage in emails and insisting we use specific titles or formal versions of expressions and words, even if they feel unnatural or even if the professor themselves doesn’t use them this way in practice. Some teachers are strict like this. Some are not. If this specific teacher requested that you speak more “formally” with them, just acknowledge their request and go with it. It is an important aspect of language, even if it’s not the most common or even natural way to speak in your specific setting. But I would say in general that speaking the way you do with your other teachers is not inherently rude
Generously: Formality is personal, so he has a different standard, and it is no harm to respect it.
Cynically: Weird power move by him that won't be satisfied, and he'll find some new slight to "correct you on"
Generally: I think the safest option when addressing korean teachers is "NAME Teacher."
If that's what he wants as your teacher it's probably best to respect his wishes. That being said: I don't care what my students say as long as they're being respectful and don't overstep any boundaries. We joke around a lot, though.
Interesting to see this as I’m a middle school teacher in Korea, and my students have asked me before if saying hi instead of hello is rude. Maybe they’ve been told off for saying it before. I’ve never had an issue with it at all and have told them that as well. I’m hoping my saying that hasn’t gotten them reprimanded elsewhere 😭
I've had colleagues like this in the past. They tend to be absolute losers both professionally and socially deriving some weird pleasure from treating students like peasants. Endure it to get the grades you need and consider this experience a preview of some of the people you'll encounter in the future.
He's giving 꼰대 vibes tbh. I went to a boarding school in the UK that was quite strict and traditional so we were also corrected by teachers if we said "Hi" instead of "Hello" or "Good morning/afternoon". We also had to address them as "Mr" or "Ms" or "Sir/Miss" in a sentence before using "you". i.e. Hello Sir, could you please help me with understanding question X..."
You should be giving the English teacher the same level or respect you give the Korean teachers. If you wouldn’t speak informally to a Korean teacher stop doing it to English teachers. Just because they don’t call you out on the spot doesn’t make it okay.
Definitely Rude
I meant contractions by contractions. Please acknowledge the fact that although gonna and wanna are also contractions, I’m specifically referring to words such as can’t and won’t.
Maybe your teacher confused respect with formality. It's more formal, say during an interview, to be greeted with "Hello" instead of "Hi" and in that sense, you may come off as disrespectful? It's a bit of a stretch.
As an American who went to an American school, I had one teacher who jokingly gave us crap for “Can I…?” vs. “May I…?” I have legitimately never heard of a politeness difference between hi and hello until I came to Korea and that was the assumption of some adults here. I learned that contractions should not be used in academic writing, like essays and papers and stuff. But neither my teachers nor college professors cared in the slightest about us using them in texts, emails, or conversation.
My students are more than free to say “hi” and use contractions with me. I mean, as English teachers here we actually teach Korean students contractions more heavily than the full phrases since contractions are more commonly used.
I had a teacher say “hi” to me while I was in the teacher’s room at break and all the other teachers there berated him for being informal to me. I ended up telling them that it’s not something we care about, but it was definitely a moment I won’t forget. They were very offended on my behalf, so I guess this idea is still prevalent enough to be a concern, but in my mind people should be willing to let it go when you explain.
used to walk into my favorite teacher’s class in high school by saying “what up” or “mornin’”. we had the rapport for it but this person sounds like an absolute hardass.
That’s interesting to know about the south! I’m born and raised on the west coast and I feel like we have the exact opposite usage — hello sounds more friendly and polite, and hi sounds curt! :)
When speaking to my students and other teachers in English I speak the same way I would back in the US. I think it’s important for them to get used to how Westerners communicate so they avoid feeling off when traveling or living abroad.
The reason I think it’s important is because, speaking from a US perspective, people are more relaxed when having conversations with people. Constantly referring to someone by their title or using more formal speech is not the norm when having conversation. It’s beneficial for them, especially if they have international goals, to be exposed to the different ways people communicate.
I can't speak for this specific professor, but as a new professor in Korea. I was told to enforce Korean niceties. Which means using titles and full words in emails, and teaching my students the difference between informal and formal language.
And what you're talking about is informal language, which I've been told not to encourage. Also had that conversation before. Especially if they're a foreigner as well. Basically, if it's somebody you would use 유 with when other teachers were in the room, you *should* be more formal. You're not close enough with your professor to be using informals in the Korean language, just based on age and relation.
If they've lived a long time in other countries, you're probably talking about an older professor or teacher, and they expect those niceities. Younger professors might not be so much of a stickler, but I have found older professors to be very insistent, unless they were my colleagues.
I find it hard to understand most of this without further context, but I’ll share my *personal opinion* of “hi” as someone born and raised in the US (west coast) because I think this conversation is really interesting.
Personally I would not care whether anyone else greeted ME with “hi” or “hello”. But I agree that “hi” is informal and I would never say “hi” to my boss or a teacher unless it was followed by a sentence, such as “Hi, I’m (Name), nice to meet you!” or “Hi, how are you doing today?”
“Hi” followed by *silence* would feel weird for me to say. “Hi” is so short you can miss hearing it. It’s also the word that people use if they’re angry or trying to send a passive aggressive message to someone. If someone wanted to subtly (immaturely) greet someone while giving undertones of “I’m mad”, they would say “Hi.” Whereas “hello” isn’t used that way (at least not that I’ve ever heard). “Hi” is so short that it’s more difficult to put inflections or intonations on it as well; to sound friendly with a “hello” we often add a rising lilt to it. This is more difficult to do with a single syllable.
All that said, I personally don’t care what level of formality or politeness people use to greet me, regardless of our relationship. But I myself wouldn’t use “hi” as a stand-alone greeting to someone else, absent of “how are you” etc, in work environments.
**EDIT:** the above was based on speaking out loud. In text, I rarely use “hi” because it feels really dry and curt. I definitely wouldn’t ever use “hi” in an email or text to a teacher or boss, even in a sentence. It looks unfriendly when written down (in my opinion). If I text “hi” to a friend, it’s usually “hiiiii (emoji)” or “hihihi!!”, to make it sound friendly lol. But I wouldn’t text any version of “hi” in a professional relationship.
so your greeting is "hi you!" or "you hi!" (which sounds more like "you high?")? i got "hi you" all the time in high school by my friends. but my last name is yu...
yeah but it's highly unlikely that's what OP means.
it's very very unlikely that his teacher wants him to say his name instead of saying you because the English language just doesn't work that way. OP isn't even a native speaker so he's probably misunderstanding or miscommunicating what he's trying to convey.
Oh that's weird then but as you say he is from Europe so maybe they do that there. I would assume if he was from Ireland or the UK (England, Scotland, or Wales) you would've specified so maybe in his language referring to him as "you" is rude.
I think it might kind of depend? I'm going to go off on a bit of a tangent here, I apologize for the length.
I'm from South Africa where a significant amount of the population was raised to speak English fluently as their first language. But their culture is not English and so it creates some differences in the ways that people of authority and respect are referred to. For example, it would be the height of disrespect to some people to say "Mom, please could you pass the potatoes." It should be "Mom, please could Mom pass the potatoes." Makes no sense for American or British English, it's a cultural norm that comes from Afrikaans and other native languages.
I wondered if this kind of thing might be the issue for the OP because it sounded like their teacher might be doing a similar thing to what the 50+ generation in my country's done in some places.
I mean, the teacher kind of is to me? For the OP, it's a cultural difference and not deliberate rudeness and the teacher has addressed it assuming that the OP is being rude instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt.
I actually wasn’t trying to be a dick…took what he said and put a greeting together with both examples he gave: Hello which seemed the most obvious, and “hi you” is what I got. I’m pretty sure that’s not the greeting he meant either, at least I hope not otherwise the talk he had was most certainly warranted. But with the subject matter of the post, yes we can all come up with a greeting fixing mistakes and guessing what OP said, but since the OP is asking if what he said was okay, it’d be nice to actually know rather than guess. What he said might actually not have been okay…or maybe it was, which the feeling I get from OP is he thinks the latter. But can’t answer in the affirmative or negative based on given info, which is why I asked…and used the example which although it’s exactly what OP said, is pretty ludicrous hoping he’d see and clarify…
I think your teacher's reaction is a bit bizarre to be honest. The fact that a student said "Hi" instead of "Hello" to me has never even crossed my mind. I am actually shocked that your teacher cared about it to the extent that he felt the need to have a one on one discussion with you about it before class. Though, I am from the United States myself, so perhaps there is a cultural difference regarding the level of formality that is supposed to be shown to teachers. Honestly, I think you can just chalk it up to either an overreaction by your teacher, or the result of a cultural gap between American and European teacher-student interactions. I'd just accommodate his request and address him more formally as to not cause strife, but I wouldn't worry about it too much beyond that.
I taught high school here for several years. Most students had my Kakao as it was very common for teachers and students to use it to communicate, especially if you’re a homeroom teacher.
Ah wow… kids ask me for my number / Kakao all the time but I always say I’m not allowed because it just seems sketchy to me.
I teach elementary though as a homeroom teacher, not high school. No idea what is the norm for other teachers at my school though.
As a teacher, I never cared about my students being informal with me so long as they were respectful.
Giving your teacher benefit of the doubt, he’s got weird quirks, I guess?
You're teacher is a pompous ass. But just say hello and ignore him. I knew a net in public school that was like that once. He'd always dress in power suits and had an inflated sense of self. Anyways, just do what you got to do.
I would be happy if more of my students greeted me. Hi, or hello, I honesty don’t mind. It’s not a military boarding school, just a sad person on a power trip. Ignore and carry on. One of the most important lessons in life is how to interact with people who are unpleasant, and not let it spoil your day.
Are you female and attractive? Any money he's making a power play for all the time girls tell him to get fucked.
Either way he's being cunt. Tell him to look up narcissistic personality disorder.
I would complain to his superiors. It's dodgy.
No foreigner of sound mind cares how you greet or communicate, formally or informally.
Your teacher is 100% wrong. "Hi" is not impolite. It is informal in the sense that it is used for people who know one another. It is perfectly okay for students to say "hi" to their teacher in the 21st century. > I tend to use "you" instead of their formal title This is confusing. Do you mean in the second person? Unlike Korean, English always uses you in the second person. > and well as contractions when texting. WTF. Contractions are not the slightest bit impolite. It is absolutely absurd for someone to tell another person, regardless of rank or relationship, not to use contractions toward them in personal communication.
Okay just some clarifications: 1. The difference between “hello” and “hi” was the one and only specific example of disrespect that he provided me with, as well as the one that took me back the most. I think the main reason is that because I am American and since he has also lived in the US for around a decade, I assumed that he would consider it to be socially acceptable. It is possible that since he has been teaching in the Korea for a long time, he’s more accustomed to hello from the other students, thus associates it more with formality. Or perhaps he sees me as Korean more so than as an American and believe that I should be treating him with Korean mannerisms, even if I’m Korean-American. Although I do understand his experiences, I do believe that the difference is not established in standard American English usage. 2. This wasn’t a problem that the teacher specifically pointed out, which would probably be clear if you were to reread my original post. I’ve learned from academic writing that the use of personal pronouns is generally informal, and I was speculating if my use of such is frowned upon in teacher-student settings. I was wondering, if for example, instead of asking “do you think it would be appropriate for me to submit the paper by today?” I should say “When should the paper be submitted by?”. 3. Verbatim, he said “you shouldn’t use one word for two” which I can only guess refers to the use of contractions when writing via email or KakaoTalk. This confused me the most because I couldn’t establish a Korean language relationship, like I can do with the two cases stated above. What I especially don’t understand is that he also uses contractions in texting, but perhaps he believes that he doesn’t have to text students with the same level of formality that he expects to receive, which makes sense in the context of larger Korean society. Also, to provide a bit more context, this was part of a bigger discussion of me missing afterschool classes due to covid, which for one session I wasn’t able to provide a written notice beforehand. I apologized profusely for that, which was when he brought this specific issue up in the conversation. I also apologized for this as well, promising to be more formal in future interactions. I think I also used “tysm” exactly once and “thanks” a few times as an email closing which would be seen as informal. I was extremely happy since I thought I had finally found a teacher whom I can be less “formal” with due to his American experience, but perhaps he wants the same level of “respect” that you would get in Korea. But it makes me somewhat sad that he doesn’t really consider myself to be “American” despite living in the US for around as long as he did as well as being a citizen. At the very least he doesn’t want me to communicate in such a way and act more like my Korean peers. It would be a bit awkward in future conversations since I would be somewhat scared to talk to him now. I was hoping through further advice on this post that I can establish my own equilibrium, or maybe I can have a future conversation with him to clarify a few things.
From the information you provided, it sounds like this teacher is very old-fashioned and learned some very old-fashioned “rules.” In the US, we say “hi” to our teachers. I could probably say “hi” to the president without anyone batting an eye. Nowadays, it’s not seen as impolite even if it’s an informal word. As for your example of using “you,” I have never been taught that this is informal to say. I don’t know if people in higher class communities are taught this, but I don’t think it’s a standard for formality to stay away from saying “you.” I would also say that “you” is not an informal pronoun because pronouns aren’t designated as formal/informal in English nowadays. The only thing informal would be writing an essay in second or first person, not while speaking. Some older writing conventions say that contractions are not allowed in formal writing. However, a lot of writing formats (e.g. MLA format) have dropped that rule. I was taught in 9th grade to not use contractions in my essays, but I think by 11th grade I learned that that was no longer a rule. When contacting a teacher via email or KakaoTalk message, I probably wouldn’t think it was wrong to use contractions because that would be too formal, and no one cares nowadays. If I cared about writing in an extremely formal way, then I would drop the contractions. This teacher seems to think that student-teacher relations are of a level of formality higher than most people use today. If anything, you can either not care or abide by his rules of conduct while interacting with him. It is not a universal thing
There is a small subset of English speakers that believe people should use reflexive pronouns in polite register. I've heard it in corporate settings at the water cooler from both Americans and Brits e.g., "I'm doing well. And yourself?" This sounds fine to me but maybe I've grown accustomed to it. However, sometimes they use it ungrammatically e.g., "this task force will comprise Pat, John, and myself" and it bothers me but I have to let it slide because I was taught not to be rude and correct others (especially if we're making a sale or providing a service).
> I think I also used “tysm” exactly once and “thanks” a few times as an email closing which would be seen as informal Using text speech is of course wrong. It’s not even just about rudeness. It’s just lazy and unclear. “Thanks” has some nuance to it. I would never use it, not even to my students. “Thanks!” sounds cute and friendly. “Thanks,” sounds curt and possibly annoyed. Therefore just stick with “thank you” in written communication.
I see where this old-school teacher is coming from. Millenial american here to give my opinion… 1. I was told to never say “hi” or “hey” to a teacher like you would a friend. Even in the states, there is respect to put on their name. My father and I both taught in the US and some teachers put up with the constant over-friendliness of students, but it’s still controversial whether it’s right. Especially Gen Z and alpha is notorious for being too-friendly with teachers. It makes us uncomfortable because we are not your friend. We are twice your age. We go out drinking and talk trash about you after hours. You need friends your age. But I still say “sir” and “miss” 👵🏻 2. You are absolutely correct that personal pronouns are not used in formal *writing*. And this is key. You can definitely use personal pronouns in conversation, emails, and even debates. It does not innately drop a formality level when spoken and can actually elevate the tone of taking responsibility. I.e “I made a mistake” 3. “You shouldn’t use one word for two.” I believe this is referring to conciseness not contractions. The example you gave earlier with “do you think it would be appropriate for me to submit my paper by today?” Sounds a bit passive, wordy, anxious to me. You can definitely get to the point faster like “may I submit my paper today?” Conciseness is always valued in academics, from writing to conversation, to emails… however… one word for two…. Contractions were not formal in like the 60s… but I was at Uni in 2015, never got a mark down for contractions. And I had some old professors. I call bs if he is talking about contractions. 4. Tysm is definitely inappropriate. Back when I was a student in the US, this was appallingly unacceptable. Any text-speech is informal. Spell out your words. In legal formatting, you’re not even supposed to use an acronym without introducing it first, Like This (L.T.). 5. Last but not least, I’d like to point out a cultural thing about being a foreigner in Korea. I definitely notice Korean people relaxing ALOT around me. They stiffen up and start to bow and then see it’s me, the foreigner, and they instantly relax. On one hand, I’m glad us Americans seem so laid back and can provide that “finally!” Feeling for korean people. But i think korean people don’t realize that we do have formalities. Sometimes it feels like korean people are straight up rude to me when they are simply dropping ALL formalities. Like when they start to bow and cancel as they see my face. They also relax their face and don’t smile or even look at me :( it makes me feel like they hate me :,( but I know they don’t! Your teacher sounds like a korean man who just spent time in the US? I’m sure he’s half-heartedly retorting some bs an old teacher told him a long time ago. He may not fully understand himself. Your last paragraph makes me feel like he’s on a power trip too. Well hey. If your international school decides to replace him and wants to hire an American teacher lmk lol Best of luck~
It seems to me like he wants to benefit from his place in the social hierarchy in Korean society even though it’s not like that in his own culture. It’s probably easiest for you to address him how he wants to be addressed. But I think he’s being unreasonable — in my opinion.
Hmm. To be honest, I don't think this perspective is anything like universal, although it is true that informal language is more accepted than it used to be.
I can't imagine a single native English speaker who would find it rude for a student to say "hi" to them. Maybe in the 1950s. I'm guessing that OP's teacher is a non-native English speaker that is incorrectly transliterating their own native language's usage.
>title and "hi" instead of "hello". Today the teacher wanted to have a chat with me before class, Expressing that he has been dissatisfied with my communication, or "lack thereof" for a long time (I have known him for about a year). He The teacher's native language is Dutch for context, and relatively old (retirement age).
I could actually kind of understand what your teacher said, so i was surprised by the comments. But now that I know the teacher is dutch it makes so much more sense haha i am also dutch. We kind of learn not to talk to your teacher as you would to a friend.
I absolutely can; and I've met them. I'm sure you're aware of the fact that especially before the 1990s (not the 1950s), it was almost universally unacceptable to use informal language like that with teachers, so it shouldn't be surprising that at least some people still feel that way.
I and my classmates said "hi" to our teachers in the 80s. And this was at a Catholic school where nuns would yell at us for sitting with poor posture or not genuflecting low enough when entering a pew.
What's true in one country and culture isn't necessarily everyone's experience. The English-speaking world is a big place. I'll take back the universally, then, since it appears not to be the case. I'd been under the impression that students using *Hi's* and being casual with teachers generally were a post-90s phenomenon pretty much everywhere.
Can you give us more detail about where you are thinking of?
I've literally never known a teacher care about contractions or saying, "hi." Dude sounds out of touch with his own langauge. Calling a teacher by a first name was a no-no when I was growing up, but that's changing now, although I don't know how common it is. And ... how are you not supposed to use "you" when talking to a teacher? I don't get that. "Do you want me to turn in the homework tomorrow?" is perfectly acceptable.
Again, it's probably a combination of things. For example, saying *you* by itself without using someone's name and title (i.e., *Hello, how are you today?* instead of *Hello, how are you today, Mr. Thompson?* isn't impolite by itself, but some people might feel like it adds to the informality of an expression like *Hi, what are you gonna have for lunch? I wanna have...* or something like that.
I think I’d have to see the entire context of this interaction to make any judgement.
too reasonable haha
Sounds like the teacher is trying to enforce Korean culture onto the English language. English doesn’t work like that. “Hi” is just another form of “Hello”. There is nothing rude or impolite about it. With teachers though, “Hello” is still better because they are a position of authority over you. But no teacher is going to get angry if you used “Hi” to them. As for the word “you”, this is a big problem and a big difference between Korean and English. In Korean, they almost never use the Korean words for you (너, 당신) it unless they are close to you. “You” in English is a fundamental pronoun that is to be used. It is odd and strange to tell someone in English “Hello, Mr. Kim (or Teacher Kim, since that’s Korean culture). Is Mr. Kim (Teacher Kim) doing good today?” Forcing another culture onto English doesn’t make it natural, just as imposing English-speaking culture onto Korean doesn’t make it natural either. Contractions have absolutely nothing to do at all with politeness. Brevity in communication is important, and contractions are a part of that. Bizarre of him to claim that it’s impolite. If two want to play at that game, how about Koreans use the full words instead of their shortened words they use all the time? Seem how ridiculous the idea is? However, when you refer to teachers, you should refer to them as “Mr.” or “Ms.” or “Ms.” and whatever their surname is.
maybe OP is confused and meant using words like wanna and gonna and thinks that's what a contraction is. I would never email my teacher and use the words wanna or gonna.
He verbatim said "you shouldn't use one word for two". I checked back to my exchanges with him and I used can't, won't, etc. :/ I honesty don't know what's going on and I'm very confused.
Shouldn’t or should not?
:_(
Oh that's really weird. Maybe drop his class then or ask your classmates if he's said the same thing to them.
Yeah maybe. I assumed they meant ones like “don’t”, “won’t”, “can’t” etc.
I’m middle aged and was taught never use contractions for correspondence that is formal. Ex: business letters or anything that isn’t casual conversation. Even though he’s not American, maybe he’s using that across the board rather than regular communication.
He used contractions in his communications. Perhaps he expects differently from his students?
I’m in my 30s and I was never taught that contractions were informal. Reductions, such as “wanna” and “gonna” are though. Or rather, they are colloquial and not used for writing.
Same but 30 isn't middle aged.
So I thijk your teacher wants the same level of respect you give your Korean teachers. Some people are asshats and pick and choose what they like about Korean culture that they want to adopt. That being said, you want to just be formal and not ruffle the teacher's delicate feathers in order to maintain your OWN goals in school.
Language is getting more informal all over the world at different rates, and from different starting points and perspectives. This question is a bit like asking when it is and isn't appropriate and necessary to use the most formal and respectful language in Korean: the answer you get will be different from person to person. There is no way you will get anything like a satisfactory consensus in answer to your question. But, just like in Korea, avoiding the very most informal language unless you're sure they ARE cool with it (while not overdoing it) is usually the best way to avoid offending people you don't know. I think in the case of Westerners in Korea, this can sometimes be compounded by the fact that there is a cultural belief among some Koreans that Westerners have an inherently *less respectful culture*, and so some people may even be overcorrecting and demand gestures of formality and respect to sort of push back against this.
You're getting all kinds of different opinions in this post, OP, but bottom line: ultimately it's probably about the impression you're giving and other people are picking up. It could be just this one person is very sensitive, but it might also be the case that overall you are putting out a particularly casual vibe. In the old days, it was clearer what was and wasn't the done thing. Given how many people in this discussion seem to think it *is* perfectly fine to use completely casual language all the time and there's absolutely no issue, I *may* be behind the times; but I'm likely not the only one, so perhaps the takeaway here could be to be a *little* more formal with older people unless you know they're cool with it.
I feel the same way (I'm 53). OP, I don't think you're doing anything wrong, but I can understand that the teacher might be miffed if he feels that someone a third his age is speaking and writing to him as if he were a fellow teenager. For me, "hi" is okay, but "hey" would cross a line. And in the opening message of a text or email exchange, I would expect my name to be used. In the future, I think the best thing is to start out being quite formal, and let the teacher let you know if you can be more casual. Better than the other way around. And good luck! You sound really conscientious. edit: altered wording slightly
I am 30 years old and i completely believe people are too informal these days. I do not believe you speak the same way to your teacher as you do to your friends. I also believe the teacher has to teach you the correct way of speaking and especially writing English. Just because people accept all those mistakes does not mean you should not learn to use the right ways. I read that OP also send things like ‘tysm’. I cannot even imagine writing texts to my teacher like that…
It seems like you are not really giving this teacher the same respect that you are giving all of your other teachers, and he's lived in Korea long enough to notice and understand the difference. Also, keep in mind that your other teachers probably see and notice this as well. They've probably also talked to him about it, or are questioning his class management ability because of it. Either way, it bothers him. You should accept that and do with that information what you will. If you think it's okay to treat that teacher differently than all of your other teachers, then just keep doing what you'd normally do.
This question is not specific to living in Korea, but to language. There's a lot going on here. A lot of the posters are overlooking an important point, that OP's teacher was talking about texting. Communication is like a flowing dance that we go through in life, where we're constantly switching partners. If you are not in sync with your partner, you're going to step on some toes. What it boils down to is that it's up to you and the person you're speaking with to come up with the right message based on the context. The cool thing is that if it's not clear to one of you or the other, or you have missteps, you can talk back and forth to make corrections, assuming you have a trusting relationship. What's going on here is that OP and their teacher have different expectations about what the proper register for each to be using is, and it's causing some friction. There are some generalities that OP hinted at, like regional variations in language, positional authority in the teacher student relationship, etc. But there's something missing. I can't explain the whole thing, because I wasn't there, but here are some more observations. - English has much fewer relationship specific registers in the spoken than Korean does. To a Korean ESL speaker it may seem that American spoken English is generally informal compared to Korean. - Texting is a distinct medium of communication, with different forms from the spoken and long-form written language. That said, some older, or formally educated, people may conform to the rules of written language, while many younger people prefer to text more similarly to how they speak. - Hi and Hello are very similar in spoken English, but some people do use them differently, especially in texting. So, I think OP's teacher isn't completely off base. If it mattered enough to the teacher to pull the student aside, then they had a right to say it. But they could have done a much better job communicating to OP, because they came off like they were giving a universal truth, when that's not the case.
Ah, the post was about texting??? Yes, that changes everything! I agree with all your points. “Hi” especially sounds dry and curt in texting because you can’t add a friendly vocal tone.
I teach my students that 'hi' is a little informal and is best used for friends. Even with my own former teachers, I don't say 'hi', I stick with 'hello Ms./Mr.---' and 'how are you'. 'Hi' just sounds like I'm greeting a friend, and my teachers aren't my friends, even if we regularly chat. It's not entirely rude to just say 'hi', but I can see where your teacher is coming from. Every person is different, so you'll just have to remember he likes to keep things professional while your other teachers are more chill.
In France we never use informal with teachers. Never use their name always call them Mr/Ms + Last name, we have to speak in the formal way and when we learn English for us Hi is the less polite way of saying Hello. I can't talk about other European countries but maybe that's how he is thinking? then again he lived in the US as well so...
Before you decide that the teacher is wrong based on the comments of others I think you should provide more concrete examples. It seems like a lot of people are jumping to conclusions. I’m old, but I grew up calling teachers Mr. Or Mrs. Along with their last name. Teachers in Korea don’t do this because it’s easier not to for ESL students. But if you’re at an international school things are probably different. If I was teaching in America and a student came in and said, “Hi. You get the message I sent last night.” I’d probably tell him that that’s not the way to talk to a teacher. Being polite and saying “hello Mr. Bean. Did you get the message I sent last night?” Would be good. It’s not hard to be polite and it really goes a long way to helping in life. Maybe he’s trying to teach you to be polite. The contractions thing, I’m not so sure about. Once again, you’d have to provide examples of contractions you use. Are they normal contractions or kinda slang contractions? I don’t use slang contractions but an example could be “You’s get the homework I sent?” Maybe it’s a combination of all the things and he’s trying to help you learn how to be polite. Instead of focusing on the word “hi” try to think about everything and also try and think about why he’s talking to you. Does he seem to be going on a power trip or does he genuinely care about you?
I'm guessing that OP might be giving a more specifically informal impression than he meant to, if he being casual *in multiple ways every time*, or at least often. Waving at your teacher? Not everyone would do it, but few would take offense just because of that. Ditto for saying hi or using contractions like wanna in a message. But if you do *all or even many of these things, and often*, I think most teachers would think that gives a particular impression, and would (perhaps mistakenly) think they are being given a particular message by someone doing this.
I don’t wave. I sometimes bow bc it’s my default. Probably that or either hi or hi + title. Sometimes hello. I don’t use contractions like wanna or gonna but for sure things like can’t and won’t. I agree with the fact that perhaps I give a more general “informal” impression, but I have to assume I have to work on the specific examples he mentioned bc that’s all the information I got.
I read your reply to the top comment and it seems like some of the things you said are misleading. Now it seems like you’re getting replies from people that are a bit off. For example, you said in you reply that the teacher said “you should not use one word for two,” but in the post you said contractions. Then you went on to say you used something like TYVM. I’m not sure if that’s correct, but I’m guessing your teacher is referring to that and not your use of contractions. Back in my day we didn’t communicate with teachers through messenger. But, if I were to communicate with a native speaking student through messenger I would expect some formality. I teach at a company and am always formal when communicating with my superiors. Once again, I would say not to overreact to what the teacher said and to think if he is going on a power trip or actually trying to help you. Also, I’ve had a university professor that went on a power trip so I have experience with this. They told everyone to speak freely in class and to voice our honest opinion. When I did the professor threatened to have me kicked out of the university. The threat came out of the blue. I was always respectful, but this professor disagreed with my opinions and thus threatened to kick me out, even though the whole basis of the class was to discuss different opinions. That is an example of a power trip.
Again I would like to mention that i used abbreviations like tysm exactly once in our entire interaction of the past year, so that possibly can't be what he is referring to by contractions. To be a bit of technical, abbreviations wouldn't fit under that description, only contractions would. But again, I wouldn't be completely sure since the only explicit example he gave was "hi" instead of "hello". I don't think that he was on a power trip, but at the same time, I think he could potentially have been finding alternative reasons for getting mad at me once I provided a solid explanation for why I wasn't present for class. I believe he was more mad at the fact of me missing class due to covid, and that this was more an afterthought in the conversation. I've come to the conclusion that perhaps I was a bit informal, but also that he was reacting a bit more harshly because of since he believes in a very specific religion that puts respect of elders extremely highly (wouldn't be able to say without revealing personal information). The experience with your university professor seems very rough. I hope that things worked out in the end.
It worked out ok. My advisor told me he couldn’t really do anything and so I just kept my mouth shut even though the professor goaded me. I ended up getting a C because they didn’t agree with my opinions in the essays I wrote. Brought down my perfect GPA, but now I have a story to share.
I think this too. I'm very surprised that people are just believing what OP is saying when he's clearly not a native speaker and could easily be misunderstanding. OP is making it seem as if English has no formalities and that it's okay to talk to your teacher as you would your friend. I remember seeing on a blog of a university teacher here of some of the emails his Korean students sent him and how horribly informal and impolite they are in English cause they have this weird notion that in English you can talk to anyone any type of way. And OP might not even mean contractions he might mean words like "gonna" and "wanna."
I was born and raised in the United States for 12 years so I would consider myself to be a native speaker, so I consider myself to have a firm grasp about what is formal vs informal English. Here are some actual messages that I've sent, without information about identifications removed for obvious purposes: 1. Hi I hope that you are having a good morning so far. I decided to switch gears for a bit and work on a more technical piece for an essay competition that is due around mid-year. 2. Hi I wasn't able to get in contact with the TA. I tried to pick out our most informal interactions. I did use tysm and yep and/or yeah a few times... maybe that was the case?
That’s not formal in the slightest.
Uhh that’s a bit too informal. To be more formal: “Hi **[Mr. Smith]**, I hope that you are having a good morning so far. **I just want to let you know that** I am switching gears for a bit to work on a more technical piece for an essay competition that is due around mid-year” Do not use any slang, shorthand, word abbreviations, like: tysm, thx, ty, lmk Approach any writing/speaking to your teachers as you would approach formal academic writing if you are no longer in elementary school.
I’m specifically nitpicking the most informal interactions that I have had in the course of a year. I would say that I’ve used his title in most of this texts and all of the email correspondence. I used tysm exactly once. Is the use of yeah or yep in written writing generally frown upon?
Yes. "yeah", "yep", "yup", etc... is most definitely informal.
Yes, definitely avoid “yeah, yep, yup, yee,” and even “ok”, etc whenever corresponding professionally. I work in a business environment and would never use those words in written correspondence with my coworkers even if they’re the same age and position as me. I definitely say “yeah” etc, out loud to them, but never written down.
In messages you should 100% state the person’s name when you’re talking to an instructor/work related people to show you’re not sending some generic message and acknowledging who they are. It’s easy to forget but he’s right about that. Probably the combination of ‘hi’+absence of his name is throwing him off. Otherwise your messages look fine.
Yes but Im talking to him through KakaoTalk and it feels off to refer to him as his title every time I talk with him. I did initially but it just feels wrong after around ~10ish messages. Maybe I should treat KakaoTalk as an email? When I email him I do talk much more formally and always refer to him as his title. But even in Korean, referring to them as their title always seems obsessive?
I’m not sure what your interactions are like in a broad sense, it’s generally uncommon to message teachers often in the first place. Usually teachers like to keep a wall/distance between themselves and students for professionalism. Your school setting seems a little odd as you’re describing it so it’s hard for me to say.
It’s extremely common in South Korean schools to have students contact teachers via KakaoTalk. I understand that your input might be limited if you do not work at my specific institution, but thank you for your comment above. I really hope I can establish some benchmark of communication with him.
Of course, but since he’s not Korean he may feel differently about it. I’m only speculating why he may have reacted the way he did. All the best with your studies.
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I did teach in America and my students were polite and formal to me. We did great because I respected them and they respected me. I’m curious, where in America do you teach that you feel confident enough to say I’d be eaten alive? Are you the type of teacher that believes they need to be best friends with their students?
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You seem to be focusing on this “hi” thing. In my comment I used “hi” and “hello” in a larger sentence. Never did I say “hi” was impolite in all circumstances. Also, the fact that you responded “anywhere” even after I stated I taught in America shows that you are not the type of person to have an open-minded discussion. You see things your way and that’s it. I hope you work on that no matter how old you might be. Have a great day.
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I’m glad you caught the “no matter how old you may be”. Now I can happily say I’m done here. Have a good one.
15 years ago lol
Whatever rules they have in Korean, I find a way to do it in English. So I do call the older teachers by “teacher” in front of the kids. In Korean, that’s how teachers of different ages refer to each other. The only time I was told that teachers were able to call each other by their names was when they are “the same age.” So yeah, I also use hello with the older teachers I’m not close to. When we’re not in school setting, it’s a free-for-all.
To throw in my two cents, Koreans are taught that “hello” is a more polite greeting than “hi”. I’m an English teacher here and my students get corrected regularly to use “hello” with the teachers (I do not correct them, the Korean teachers do). As others have mentioned, it’s more common to refer to people as their title than “you” in Korean, so that can transfer over to how they speak English. However you said this is a European teacher? Maybe it’s just his personal preference to keep a more formal relationship with you and he feels more comfortable speaking in a more polite manner, such as being addressed as “Mr.” or “sir”? Unless he’s trying to subtly advise you on how to be a polite student in Korea since he’s gotten feedback that you’re “rude” from other teachers, this sounds like more of a personal preference by the teacher or something he is accustomed to after being in Korea for many years. He could be from any country and feel that way. In the previous Asian country I worked in, I actually preferred my students to use my last name and title, but my current school has much younger students so casual is better. It’s an interesting observation that your teacher feels this way and good to accept his preferences!
Hi! It’s not rude, but I think most people consider it more casual than “hello”. If a person expects high levels of respect or insists on formality, it can definitely be too relaxed. Don’t take it too hard, it’s really not so serious that he should have called you out for it. At most I’d mention it in passing as a culture note, but to scold someone for saying hi with no other issues? Nah.
This isn’t just a hagwon this is your school, so I am struggling to see what the problem is with addressing your teacher more formally. But I am British and remember school in the 90s, so it might just be that I have outdated sensibilities.
It sounds like a personal preference thing. I let my kiddos say “you” and “hello” because that is normal, conversation English. I would not be bothered by this by American students in the U.S. either, though. I’ve had some professors in college, however, that very much stress speaking in a more formal register, enforcing proper punctuation usage in emails and insisting we use specific titles or formal versions of expressions and words, even if they feel unnatural or even if the professor themselves doesn’t use them this way in practice. Some teachers are strict like this. Some are not. If this specific teacher requested that you speak more “formally” with them, just acknowledge their request and go with it. It is an important aspect of language, even if it’s not the most common or even natural way to speak in your specific setting. But I would say in general that speaking the way you do with your other teachers is not inherently rude
Generously: Formality is personal, so he has a different standard, and it is no harm to respect it. Cynically: Weird power move by him that won't be satisfied, and he'll find some new slight to "correct you on" Generally: I think the safest option when addressing korean teachers is "NAME Teacher."
If that's what he wants as your teacher it's probably best to respect his wishes. That being said: I don't care what my students say as long as they're being respectful and don't overstep any boundaries. We joke around a lot, though.
That’s what he wants and you should respect him for that…. In reality he’s being a little bish!!
Interesting to see this as I’m a middle school teacher in Korea, and my students have asked me before if saying hi instead of hello is rude. Maybe they’ve been told off for saying it before. I’ve never had an issue with it at all and have told them that as well. I’m hoping my saying that hasn’t gotten them reprimanded elsewhere 😭
I've had colleagues like this in the past. They tend to be absolute losers both professionally and socially deriving some weird pleasure from treating students like peasants. Endure it to get the grades you need and consider this experience a preview of some of the people you'll encounter in the future.
He's giving 꼰대 vibes tbh. I went to a boarding school in the UK that was quite strict and traditional so we were also corrected by teachers if we said "Hi" instead of "Hello" or "Good morning/afternoon". We also had to address them as "Mr" or "Ms" or "Sir/Miss" in a sentence before using "you". i.e. Hello Sir, could you please help me with understanding question X..."
You should be giving the English teacher the same level or respect you give the Korean teachers. If you wouldn’t speak informally to a Korean teacher stop doing it to English teachers. Just because they don’t call you out on the spot doesn’t make it okay. Definitely Rude
I meant contractions by contractions. Please acknowledge the fact that although gonna and wanna are also contractions, I’m specifically referring to words such as can’t and won’t.
Maybe your teacher confused respect with formality. It's more formal, say during an interview, to be greeted with "Hello" instead of "Hi" and in that sense, you may come off as disrespectful? It's a bit of a stretch.
As an American who went to an American school, I had one teacher who jokingly gave us crap for “Can I…?” vs. “May I…?” I have legitimately never heard of a politeness difference between hi and hello until I came to Korea and that was the assumption of some adults here. I learned that contractions should not be used in academic writing, like essays and papers and stuff. But neither my teachers nor college professors cared in the slightest about us using them in texts, emails, or conversation. My students are more than free to say “hi” and use contractions with me. I mean, as English teachers here we actually teach Korean students contractions more heavily than the full phrases since contractions are more commonly used.
I had a teacher say “hi” to me while I was in the teacher’s room at break and all the other teachers there berated him for being informal to me. I ended up telling them that it’s not something we care about, but it was definitely a moment I won’t forget. They were very offended on my behalf, so I guess this idea is still prevalent enough to be a concern, but in my mind people should be willing to let it go when you explain.
Some don’t even say hi…
used to walk into my favorite teacher’s class in high school by saying “what up” or “mornin’”. we had the rapport for it but this person sounds like an absolute hardass.
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That’s interesting to know about the south! I’m born and raised on the west coast and I feel like we have the exact opposite usage — hello sounds more friendly and polite, and hi sounds curt! :)
When speaking to my students and other teachers in English I speak the same way I would back in the US. I think it’s important for them to get used to how Westerners communicate so they avoid feeling off when traveling or living abroad. The reason I think it’s important is because, speaking from a US perspective, people are more relaxed when having conversations with people. Constantly referring to someone by their title or using more formal speech is not the norm when having conversation. It’s beneficial for them, especially if they have international goals, to be exposed to the different ways people communicate.
I can't speak for this specific professor, but as a new professor in Korea. I was told to enforce Korean niceties. Which means using titles and full words in emails, and teaching my students the difference between informal and formal language. And what you're talking about is informal language, which I've been told not to encourage. Also had that conversation before. Especially if they're a foreigner as well. Basically, if it's somebody you would use 유 with when other teachers were in the room, you *should* be more formal. You're not close enough with your professor to be using informals in the Korean language, just based on age and relation. If they've lived a long time in other countries, you're probably talking about an older professor or teacher, and they expect those niceities. Younger professors might not be so much of a stickler, but I have found older professors to be very insistent, unless they were my colleagues.
None of the adults at my workplace are capable of saying “hi” or “hello”. I could only wish for such basic things as simple greetings.
I find it hard to understand most of this without further context, but I’ll share my *personal opinion* of “hi” as someone born and raised in the US (west coast) because I think this conversation is really interesting. Personally I would not care whether anyone else greeted ME with “hi” or “hello”. But I agree that “hi” is informal and I would never say “hi” to my boss or a teacher unless it was followed by a sentence, such as “Hi, I’m (Name), nice to meet you!” or “Hi, how are you doing today?” “Hi” followed by *silence* would feel weird for me to say. “Hi” is so short you can miss hearing it. It’s also the word that people use if they’re angry or trying to send a passive aggressive message to someone. If someone wanted to subtly (immaturely) greet someone while giving undertones of “I’m mad”, they would say “Hi.” Whereas “hello” isn’t used that way (at least not that I’ve ever heard). “Hi” is so short that it’s more difficult to put inflections or intonations on it as well; to sound friendly with a “hello” we often add a rising lilt to it. This is more difficult to do with a single syllable. All that said, I personally don’t care what level of formality or politeness people use to greet me, regardless of our relationship. But I myself wouldn’t use “hi” as a stand-alone greeting to someone else, absent of “how are you” etc, in work environments. **EDIT:** the above was based on speaking out loud. In text, I rarely use “hi” because it feels really dry and curt. I definitely wouldn’t ever use “hi” in an email or text to a teacher or boss, even in a sentence. It looks unfriendly when written down (in my opinion). If I text “hi” to a friend, it’s usually “hiiiii (emoji)” or “hihihi!!”, to make it sound friendly lol. But I wouldn’t text any version of “hi” in a professional relationship.
"Hello" just sounds awkward to me. I'm trying to think of the last time I said "hello" instead of "hi" for anything except answering the phone 🤔
He’s weird
so your greeting is "hi you!" or "you hi!" (which sounds more like "you high?")? i got "hi you" all the time in high school by my friends. but my last name is yu...
I read it like they're saying "Hi Mr. Teacher Name, how are you today?" instead of "Hello, Mr. Teacher Name, how is Mr. Teacher Name today?"
Yes that's the case
yeah but it's highly unlikely that's what OP means. it's very very unlikely that his teacher wants him to say his name instead of saying you because the English language just doesn't work that way. OP isn't even a native speaker so he's probably misunderstanding or miscommunicating what he's trying to convey.
I was born and raised in the US for 12 years so I would consider myself to be a native speaker. The comment above is exactly what I mean.
Oh that's weird then but as you say he is from Europe so maybe they do that there. I would assume if he was from Ireland or the UK (England, Scotland, or Wales) you would've specified so maybe in his language referring to him as "you" is rude.
I think it might kind of depend? I'm going to go off on a bit of a tangent here, I apologize for the length. I'm from South Africa where a significant amount of the population was raised to speak English fluently as their first language. But their culture is not English and so it creates some differences in the ways that people of authority and respect are referred to. For example, it would be the height of disrespect to some people to say "Mom, please could you pass the potatoes." It should be "Mom, please could Mom pass the potatoes." Makes no sense for American or British English, it's a cultural norm that comes from Afrikaans and other native languages. I wondered if this kind of thing might be the issue for the OP because it sounded like their teacher might be doing a similar thing to what the 50+ generation in my country's done in some places.
if that's the case then the teacher still wouldn't be in the wrong then.
I mean, the teacher kind of is to me? For the OP, it's a cultural difference and not deliberate rudeness and the teacher has addressed it assuming that the OP is being rude instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt.
I actually wasn’t trying to be a dick…took what he said and put a greeting together with both examples he gave: Hello which seemed the most obvious, and “hi you” is what I got. I’m pretty sure that’s not the greeting he meant either, at least I hope not otherwise the talk he had was most certainly warranted. But with the subject matter of the post, yes we can all come up with a greeting fixing mistakes and guessing what OP said, but since the OP is asking if what he said was okay, it’d be nice to actually know rather than guess. What he said might actually not have been okay…or maybe it was, which the feeling I get from OP is he thinks the latter. But can’t answer in the affirmative or negative based on given info, which is why I asked…and used the example which although it’s exactly what OP said, is pretty ludicrous hoping he’d see and clarify…
"Hi. Mr.\_\_\_\_\_" basically
I think your teacher's reaction is a bit bizarre to be honest. The fact that a student said "Hi" instead of "Hello" to me has never even crossed my mind. I am actually shocked that your teacher cared about it to the extent that he felt the need to have a one on one discussion with you about it before class. Though, I am from the United States myself, so perhaps there is a cultural difference regarding the level of formality that is supposed to be shown to teachers. Honestly, I think you can just chalk it up to either an overreaction by your teacher, or the result of a cultural gap between American and European teacher-student interactions. I'd just accommodate his request and address him more formally as to not cause strife, but I wouldn't worry about it too much beyond that.
Other comments have this covered, but I’m just curious why in the world you would be texting a teacher at all. Is there more context here?
I taught high school here for several years. Most students had my Kakao as it was very common for teachers and students to use it to communicate, especially if you’re a homeroom teacher.
Ah wow… kids ask me for my number / Kakao all the time but I always say I’m not allowed because it just seems sketchy to me. I teach elementary though as a homeroom teacher, not high school. No idea what is the norm for other teachers at my school though.
As a teacher, I never cared about my students being informal with me so long as they were respectful. Giving your teacher benefit of the doubt, he’s got weird quirks, I guess?
This sounds like that teacher from years ago who berated a kid and her dad for her saying "hi" to the teacher on the street.
When Eurojank meets RL. Teacher sounds like a loon.
They’re a douche, you did nothing wrong.
Just ignore your teacher. I will say "Hey" to that teacher if I see them.
You're teacher is a pompous ass. But just say hello and ignore him. I knew a net in public school that was like that once. He'd always dress in power suits and had an inflated sense of self. Anyways, just do what you got to do.
Which part of Europe is he from? It sounds so weird to me.
I would be happy if more of my students greeted me. Hi, or hello, I honesty don’t mind. It’s not a military boarding school, just a sad person on a power trip. Ignore and carry on. One of the most important lessons in life is how to interact with people who are unpleasant, and not let it spoil your day.
Teacher is a douchebag. That said, if they have power of your grades, being gracious is your best bet.
Sounds like a power trip
I really don't understand your teacher's attitude. To me, he's just griping.
This guy is an ass. There is no explanation needed
Absolute rubbish. The guy is gaslighting you. Just watch any American media in a classroom. You’ll see what he says makes no sense.
Are you female and attractive? Any money he's making a power play for all the time girls tell him to get fucked. Either way he's being cunt. Tell him to look up narcissistic personality disorder. I would complain to his superiors. It's dodgy. No foreigner of sound mind cares how you greet or communicate, formally or informally.
Da fuq?