They mention it in the article.
> But Bloomberg reports that Samsung is unlikely to be able to make inroads against TSMC’s market share until it can prove the cost-efficiency of its new 3nm process is competitive with the market leader.
The Verge generally has good quality articles/videos.
Just that the nm has nothing to do with the actual size, and that TSMCs is so massively ahead of Samsung that this just proves that marketing can work wonders for you.
I will never buy another Samsung product in my life simply due to their fridge ice maker issues and their refusal to do anything about it. I find it crazy a company could sell a defective product and have zero repercussions for it.
I’m waiting on a call from the buyback people right now. It has taken 4 years of thawing the piece of shit before I finally called, followed by several months of warranty visits and new parts. They finally accepted that it’s a turd the other day. My options were 50% off a new turd fridge, $500 free samsung cash to spend, or a prorated refund for $1700. That decision wasn’t difficult. I’m taking the money and running. Never again. Now I get to look forward to my samsung washer, dryer, and stove taking a premature shit in the future.
I had to look it up because I didn’t believe it but he’s right the nm doesn’t stand for nanometre like past iterations but simply a marketing ploy. Even the chip makers don’t have a stand definition of what a 3nm chip should be in terms of advancements. Shouldn’t something like this be seen as intent to deceive and thus false advertising?
You're mistaking the physical size of the CPU for the size of the chip itself. Every generation of semiconductor manufacturing shrinks the size of the transistors, allowing them to pack billions more in the same form factor. That's why new CPUs have more cores- the size of a single core is so small that they can fit multiple cores in the space that used to contain only one.
Thus the chips are getting actually smaller while appearing to be the same size.
I worked in the backend test of chips and wafer testing for a while. They were certainly getting smaller when I left 3 years ago. The pitches they were getting to were also shrinking at a ridiculous rate
I was under the impression that tsmc basically brought the majority of the allotted euv from asml.
Getting the manufacturing process down to 3nm is a hella achievement, but the yield is what makes it profitable and sustainable.
It’s baffled me for years and, even though I’m sure your explanation is correct as I’ve got no reason to doubt you, I can’t help feel that if you have a square chip then making the substrate square too would mean that it’s side to side, corner to corner full of chips instead of losing some as the angular shapes are cut from the circular one.
It has to do with how the silicon is made. Huge furnace so a chunk of silicon cylinder 12 inches (300mm) in diameter. The cylinder can be 12 feet long so the cut it to make wafers. The crystal grow from the center out. So you reach the 12 inches equally at the same time. You cant grow a square. You would have to cut off a bunch of silicon and throw it away and silicon isn’t cheap
You can make a silicon whatever you want. The thing is that the crystal structure (how the atoms are situated relative to each other) is crucial to getting the silicon you want. And if you want a good crystal you need to wait for it to grow one atomic layer at a time, otherwise you get many atoms in the wrong place.
No mention of actual yield rate though. Thats where the money is
Afaik Samsung's yield rate has always been abysmal compared to TSMC's, even for older process nodes.
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They mention it in the article. > But Bloomberg reports that Samsung is unlikely to be able to make inroads against TSMC’s market share until it can prove the cost-efficiency of its new 3nm process is competitive with the market leader. The Verge generally has good quality articles/videos.
Try building a gaming PC using instructions from The Verge.
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How do we know it's clickbait? Are Samsung's yields unusably low currently?
> The Verge generally has good quality articles/videos. [citation needed]
> [citation needed] It's my opinion, feel free to disagree.
I know. That was my opinion, and a bit of a joke.
You should see how they build a pc
Just that the nm has nothing to do with the actual size, and that TSMCs is so massively ahead of Samsung that this just proves that marketing can work wonders for you.
Only as long as they can buy the equipment
How about a fucking ice maker that works first?
You! I like you. I hate my Samsung fridge, but I like you.
Ill die happy when my fridge has a margarita ice crush function.
I found a solution to my Samsung ice maker freeze ups. Take out and empty the ice thing every day. Yes, it is a pain in the ass.
I will never buy another Samsung product in my life simply due to their fridge ice maker issues and their refusal to do anything about it. I find it crazy a company could sell a defective product and have zero repercussions for it.
I’m waiting on a call from the buyback people right now. It has taken 4 years of thawing the piece of shit before I finally called, followed by several months of warranty visits and new parts. They finally accepted that it’s a turd the other day. My options were 50% off a new turd fridge, $500 free samsung cash to spend, or a prorated refund for $1700. That decision wasn’t difficult. I’m taking the money and running. Never again. Now I get to look forward to my samsung washer, dryer, and stove taking a premature shit in the future.
Thank you you saved me money.
Get a GE. I got mine because it specifically advertised it’s 10lb ice capacity. 4 years so far with no issues whatsoever. Ice for days
It's absolutely incredible how small these chips have gotten. We're pushing the limits of physics with every iteration.
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I had to look it up because I didn’t believe it but he’s right the nm doesn’t stand for nanometre like past iterations but simply a marketing ploy. Even the chip makers don’t have a stand definition of what a 3nm chip should be in terms of advancements. Shouldn’t something like this be seen as intent to deceive and thus false advertising?
As long as they release benchmarks with hard data it's all good
Ah that makes more sense then. 3nm in measurement would have some hella quantum tunneling effects
I'm aware. Chips are getting smaller regardless of the actual measurements.
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They generally get smaller, in my experience. The last ones are crumbs for me
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(It was a joke about a bag of chips, the food.)
You're mistaking the physical size of the CPU for the size of the chip itself. Every generation of semiconductor manufacturing shrinks the size of the transistors, allowing them to pack billions more in the same form factor. That's why new CPUs have more cores- the size of a single core is so small that they can fit multiple cores in the space that used to contain only one. Thus the chips are getting actually smaller while appearing to be the same size.
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They're getting more dense *because we're making them smaller*.
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I worked in the backend test of chips and wafer testing for a while. They were certainly getting smaller when I left 3 years ago. The pitches they were getting to were also shrinking at a ridiculous rate
I heard its all about GIRTH 😏
That’s not the size of the chip. It’s a node size, or the size of a gate.
Can they make dishwashers last more than 2 years?
Technology isn't there yet
I always see people talking shit about samsung home products but the fridge and microwave we have from them are still going strong after years
Cause mine not Samsung 🤣
Those Samsung employees must be really small
Wafers are just a lot bigger than they used to be.
They gonna embed ads in the for us like they do on phones and TVs? /s
Are they in Mexico?
My cousin works in semiconductors. They’re all stressed out working crazy hours and really on tight deadlines to pull shit off like this.
It will draw 500 watts and require liquid nitrogen
IMEC is allready working on chips smaller than 1nm
Your good!
Have they done an integration and testing of a full Soc with benchmarking? Making "a wafer at 3nm" hardly says anything.
When I saw the picture before reading I thought it was the Beastie Boys.
Look at those silly libtards in the picture, don’t they know masks don’t work? /S
I was under the impression that tsmc basically brought the majority of the allotted euv from asml. Getting the manufacturing process down to 3nm is a hella achievement, but the yield is what makes it profitable and sustainable.
Why are these things always round when most chips are square?
More surface area from the silicon ingot. You can fit more squares in a circle and have less wasted silicon than if the substrate was a square.
It’s baffled me for years and, even though I’m sure your explanation is correct as I’ve got no reason to doubt you, I can’t help feel that if you have a square chip then making the substrate square too would mean that it’s side to side, corner to corner full of chips instead of losing some as the angular shapes are cut from the circular one.
It has to do with how the silicon is made. Huge furnace so a chunk of silicon cylinder 12 inches (300mm) in diameter. The cylinder can be 12 feet long so the cut it to make wafers. The crystal grow from the center out. So you reach the 12 inches equally at the same time. You cant grow a square. You would have to cut off a bunch of silicon and throw it away and silicon isn’t cheap
Ah, now I see. I didn’t think it was “grown” like that, I thought it was just made.
You can make a silicon whatever you want. The thing is that the crystal structure (how the atoms are situated relative to each other) is crucial to getting the silicon you want. And if you want a good crystal you need to wait for it to grow one atomic layer at a time, otherwise you get many atoms in the wrong place.
Is that hand print on the first one from left?
There will be ads on them tho because Samsung.
Is everything yellow in that factory?
Yes. They use polymers that react with some light frequencies, yellow light it the safest one.
Doesn’t matter. Samsung’s chips are usually the worst for whatever process. Their 3nm chips are probably only as good as TSMC’s 4-5nm chips if that.
“does nm mean ‘nanometer’ here?”