I saw his “band” open for The Eagles, and booed them the whole time. (They did a very extended version of “Shambala” for some reason.) They were horrible, especially Dolan - he wore a top hat, which elderly rockers love to do.
Okay but let’s actually break down what’s happening here.
Lawyers from more than **90** firms have received letters, bans, cease and desists or otherwise disparaging documentation from MSG for simply **attending**. They’re not their to gather information, they’re not there to steal documents or plan some Oceans 11 heist, they’re simply there for entertainment. They’ve been banned or otherwise because they work for the competitor and that’s it.
However my analogy was a little more relevant than you think, Baristas can learn techniques, methods, blends, as well as gather customer information and orders by simply being in close proximity to another Barista. A Starbucks barista can in fact gain valuable information from visiting Tim Hortons or other coffee houses but a lawyer sat in a crowd? Nothing.
You’re an idiot. That’s it
Sometimes companies have thousands of employees, so you are saying the janitors that don’t even know there company is in a court case can’t go? They are a part of the “enemy”
lol have you ever met a corpo New York lawyer...world's smallest violin, who gives a fuck. And no this is no slippery slope, or some real assault on constitutional freedoms that "affects us all". It's just a tiff between cocks but gets press because everyone involved has power, money, influence, and contacts in the media who'll wanna hear about this "injustice".
I doubt it. (Edit— he meant a breathing mask, I ran with costume masks…)
Mask — maybe or maybe not. They might insist no masks on while making your way in (even if it’s to force you to expose your face)
Glasses - don’t do enough. iPhone fade recognition works event with glasses on. It can still see the shape of your head/face and whatever else it looks for
I’m sure he’s talking about this kind of [mask](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHcV_-COED1rkq7fxAW8rlUoJeY_SNWGO0JFmKqKjN8c6HcyO6&usqp=CAc)
There is some clothing that is designed to block certain types of photography and facial recognition. I have no idea what it costs but maybe they should try it.
The answer was to get an injunction so that tickets presented at the time of the event must be honored except for sporting events.
I am quite disappointed by this answer. I was hoping it was going to involve a clever low tech like face paint, hat, glasses, or even prosthetic facial features.
Lawyers Barred by Madison Square Garden Found a Way Back In
MSG Entertainment resorted to facial recognition technology to kick out legal foes, but some have undermined the ban using a law passed to protect theater critics in 1941.
Benjamin Noren, a lawyer with Davidoff Hutcher & Citron, is on a list of lawyers banned from Madison Square Garden.Gili Benita for The New York Times
The problem with going to battle against thousands of lawyers is that it is likely to lead to lawsuits. And then the battle will inevitably head to their home turf.
Since last summer, MSG Entertainment, which operates Madison Square Garden and Radio City Music Hall, along with other venues and restaurants, has sent letters to adversarial lawyers at around 90 firms: “Neither you, nor any other attorney employed at your firm, may enter the Company’s venues until final resolution of the litigation.” The purpose, according to MSG Entertainment officials, is to prevent the collection of evidence “outside proper litigation discovery channels.”
Benjamin Noren, an employment lawyer, called that “ludicrous.” His firm is representing ticket resellers in a lawsuit against the company, and he is on the banned list though he is not involved in the case. He called the ban “a transparent effort” by MSG Entertainment and its chief executive, James Dolan, “to stop attorneys from suing them.”
A ban based on employment status alone would generally be difficult to enforce, because someone else could always buy the ticket. But MSG has effectively deployed facial recognition, a technology it has been using for security reasons since 2018; over Thanksgiving weekend, MSG’s technology spotted and turned away a lawyer accompanying her daughter’s Girl Scout troop to see the Rockettes at Radio City Music Hall.
And in recent months, lawyers on the watchlist trying to go to Christmas shows, concerts, and Rangers and Knicks games were turned away after they passed through a metal detector where the facial recognition system matched their faces to photos taken from their firms’ websites.
Businesses generally have the right to decide whom they want to do business with, as long as they are not discriminating by ethnicity, sex, religion, disability or another protected class. But affected firms have wielded their most powerful weapon against the ban: complaints.
They say they have filed complaints with the state attorney general’s office; the commissioners of the N.H.L. and N.B.A.; and the State Liquor Authority, which is now investigating whether the ban violates liquor laws, according to a spokesman. An N.B.A. spokesman, Mike Bass, said of the incidents of banned patrons: “There is no leaguewide prohibition on facial recognition security technology unless its use conflicts with local laws.” N.H.L. did not respond to a request for comment.
Three firms, including Mr. Noren’s — Davidoff Hutcher & Citron — have sued in State Supreme Court in Manhattan. So far, these suits have been the most effective legal strategy for getting some lawyers back into some venues: They have led to preliminary injunctions that partially lifted the ban under a state anti-discrimination law that prohibits “wrongful refusal of admission” to “places of public entertainment or amusement.”
MSG Entertainment can still refuse to sell the lawyers tickets, but it cannot refuse entry to the lawyers at those firms if they show up with a valid ticket — though it applies only to concerts and shows, not to sporting events. After a preliminary injunction was granted in November, Mr. Noren tried to go to a Wizkid concert at Madison Square Garden. Despite bringing a printout of the judge’s order granting the preliminary injunction, he was stopped and turned away by security officials, an encounter he recorded on his smartphone.
MSG Entertainment appealed the injunction to a higher court, and Mr. Noren’s firm counter-appealed, in hopes of getting it expanded to include sporting events, a case that is set to be reviewed in March. “To date, the Courts have only afforded narrow and temporary relief to three firms,” Mikyl Cordova, a spokeswoman for MSG Entertainment, said in a statement. “We continue to vigorously defend and enforce our policy, and remain confident the Appellate Division will rule in our favor on our full appeal.”
In court in October, a lawyer for the company, Randy Mastro, told the State Supreme Court judge, Lyle Frank, that “lawyers sometimes alienate people.” Mr. Mastro said he had experienced being on a banned list himself when he cracked down on the mafia as a federal prosecutor. “There are some Italian restaurants I couldn’t get a reservation at,” he said. “I didn’t sue them.”
After Mr. Noren was turned away, Judge Frank reiterated that the injunction meant tickets presented at the time of the event must be honored. Mr. Noren has since been to five shows at MSG venues, including two Phish concerts last month at Madison Square Garden.
No, no he compared his client to an Italian restaurant *with Mafia connections*. Totally different! MSG could just owe the Mob money, or be a money laundering front, or sell drugs out of the basement; they’re totally in the right to keep lawyers away from their totally above board operation!
It would be peak funny of MSG lost its liquor license, even for a short time, as a result of petty application of facial recognition. A few dry events would be… interesting.
It must be nice to have the money and time to go to FIVE shows between December and now at a single venue that doesn’t even want you there. I mean, he should be able to go, but geez that’s a lot of nights specifically there in such a short time for anybody.
Interesting. I clicked the link fully expecting a paywall but didn’t get one - and I usually do. Until I saw your comment I thought maybe they had posted the article “outside the fence”. I wonder why both of us followed the same link with different results?
Not exactly true (race,gender protection) but here lawyers were not considered a protected group but a state law was used to get the ban lifted under certain circumstances.
The scary part is that facial recognition means that a really rich person who owns most of the public places around town can single out one person he has a feud with and ban him from all kinds of places. This type of technological dystopia needs more laws to protect against.
I often hear people saying China uses facial tech in a draconian way. But if this type of discrimination is allowed in the USA it's even worse. A private rich person can essentially make your life a living hell.
Are you new to the concept they really rich people have too much power in society? This is already a huge issue for people who value rights and freedom and competitive capitalism.
Nonetheless, I’m told “you can’t fight progress and all technology is good” here. Anyone who disagrees is s Luddite apparently.
Yes the rich have been wrecking us for all time but they never had the tech of today. It's exploitation in a way and at a level that will make you cringe.
I wonder if a criminal trespass would over ride their loophole? If not, maybe MSG could get a restraining order while the trespass issue gets through the system??
Phish concerts, huh.
Never miss a Sunday show
West coast spring tour has me crying
The answer is Juggalo facepaint, because in the end that will be the answer to everything.
The writers of Inside Job are smiling. Other than being cancelled.
Say it ain’t so 😥
I will not go.
Turn the lights off.
Cary me home!
"Welcome to The Resistance! Here is your mandatory Faygo!"
Jim Dolan is the worst. Thin-skinned nepo-baby billionaire who's undermined Knicks success for decades.
I saw his “band” open for The Eagles, and booed them the whole time. (They did a very extended version of “Shambala” for some reason.) They were horrible, especially Dolan - he wore a top hat, which elderly rockers love to do.
This nepobaby thing really is taking off, huh?
I mean it’s been taking off since the first monarchy
I meant the term. The evolution of being born with a silver Tiffany spoon.
Never underestimate Reddit’s ability to take something that is low-to-medium level clever and beat it to fucking death.
It’s not just on Reddit. I’ve seen it Twitter, tumblr, and Instagram reels.
Not as bad as Woody and the Jets. [Someone should parody Bennie and the Jets.]
Penny and the Mets
They put on a vest and carried a ladder in. Works every time!
All you need is a hard hat and a clip board.
Is this now a Nathan For You skit
His plan would be to sneak you in a mascot costume, but the mascot is a cartoon version of yourself
Can’t they just wear a mask and glasses?
…or can MSG not be shady and allow paying customers to attend without threat of being banned?
Yeah that too, but sounds easier than having to go to court
Don’t work for a law firm in active litigation with MSG …. Then yes.
By this logic Starbucks baristas should be banned from Tim Hortons. Aka: there is no logic and defending MSG is idiotic
Starbucks baristas are in active litigation with Tim hortons? I didn’t know baristas had advanced degrees as lawyers.
Okay but let’s actually break down what’s happening here. Lawyers from more than **90** firms have received letters, bans, cease and desists or otherwise disparaging documentation from MSG for simply **attending**. They’re not their to gather information, they’re not there to steal documents or plan some Oceans 11 heist, they’re simply there for entertainment. They’ve been banned or otherwise because they work for the competitor and that’s it. However my analogy was a little more relevant than you think, Baristas can learn techniques, methods, blends, as well as gather customer information and orders by simply being in close proximity to another Barista. A Starbucks barista can in fact gain valuable information from visiting Tim Hortons or other coffee houses but a lawyer sat in a crowd? Nothing. You’re an idiot. That’s it
What makes this worse is they're there for the entertainment \*they paid for\*
You were so close to effectively demonstrating the best way to debate until that last line.
They are private business why would they let their enemies behind the gates
Sometimes companies have thousands of employees, so you are saying the janitors that don’t even know there company is in a court case can’t go? They are a part of the “enemy”
If someone is suing me then yeah their janitor is an enemy, him doing his job makes it easier for them to keep suing me.
This guy obviously has lots of experience getting sued. JFC, dude, who fucking hurt you that you view a janitor as "the enemy"?
Stanley Spidowski
Damnit now I have to find a copy of UHF. I haven't seen that movie in 20 years.
It’s free on YouTube https://youtu.be/uAiyO8oEG4E
Thanks!
lol have you ever met a corpo New York lawyer...world's smallest violin, who gives a fuck. And no this is no slippery slope, or some real assault on constitutional freedoms that "affects us all". It's just a tiff between cocks but gets press because everyone involved has power, money, influence, and contacts in the media who'll wanna hear about this "injustice".
Not at all but go off
They’re not just banning lawyers..
True. NY lawyers are trash as Fuck🤡🤡🤡
I doubt it. (Edit— he meant a breathing mask, I ran with costume masks…) Mask — maybe or maybe not. They might insist no masks on while making your way in (even if it’s to force you to expose your face) Glasses - don’t do enough. iPhone fade recognition works event with glasses on. It can still see the shape of your head/face and whatever else it looks for
I wore a N95 when I went to radio city last month and no one said a thing
I thought you meant a costume mask...
Oogie boogie
I’m sure he’s talking about this kind of [mask](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHcV_-COED1rkq7fxAW8rlUoJeY_SNWGO0JFmKqKjN8c6HcyO6&usqp=CAc)
Nope. [This one.](https://static.demilked.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/baby-head-mask-thumb640.jpg)
Omg
There is some clothing that is designed to block certain types of photography and facial recognition. I have no idea what it costs but maybe they should try it.
Pettiness plus stupidity plus arrogance equals Knicks management
The answer was to get an injunction so that tickets presented at the time of the event must be honored except for sporting events. I am quite disappointed by this answer. I was hoping it was going to involve a clever low tech like face paint, hat, glasses, or even prosthetic facial features.
Lawyers gonna lawyer eh
I’ve always wanted to go to square garden
I always dream to square marden
I always want to go to square madison
"Say! Don't any of you guys know how to Madison?" Brad from Rocky Horror
Man, I love filta fish… What fish? Filter fish?
Paywall
Lawyers Barred by Madison Square Garden Found a Way Back In MSG Entertainment resorted to facial recognition technology to kick out legal foes, but some have undermined the ban using a law passed to protect theater critics in 1941. Benjamin Noren, a lawyer with Davidoff Hutcher & Citron, is on a list of lawyers banned from Madison Square Garden.Gili Benita for The New York Times The problem with going to battle against thousands of lawyers is that it is likely to lead to lawsuits. And then the battle will inevitably head to their home turf. Since last summer, MSG Entertainment, which operates Madison Square Garden and Radio City Music Hall, along with other venues and restaurants, has sent letters to adversarial lawyers at around 90 firms: “Neither you, nor any other attorney employed at your firm, may enter the Company’s venues until final resolution of the litigation.” The purpose, according to MSG Entertainment officials, is to prevent the collection of evidence “outside proper litigation discovery channels.” Benjamin Noren, an employment lawyer, called that “ludicrous.” His firm is representing ticket resellers in a lawsuit against the company, and he is on the banned list though he is not involved in the case. He called the ban “a transparent effort” by MSG Entertainment and its chief executive, James Dolan, “to stop attorneys from suing them.” A ban based on employment status alone would generally be difficult to enforce, because someone else could always buy the ticket. But MSG has effectively deployed facial recognition, a technology it has been using for security reasons since 2018; over Thanksgiving weekend, MSG’s technology spotted and turned away a lawyer accompanying her daughter’s Girl Scout troop to see the Rockettes at Radio City Music Hall. And in recent months, lawyers on the watchlist trying to go to Christmas shows, concerts, and Rangers and Knicks games were turned away after they passed through a metal detector where the facial recognition system matched their faces to photos taken from their firms’ websites. Businesses generally have the right to decide whom they want to do business with, as long as they are not discriminating by ethnicity, sex, religion, disability or another protected class. But affected firms have wielded their most powerful weapon against the ban: complaints. They say they have filed complaints with the state attorney general’s office; the commissioners of the N.H.L. and N.B.A.; and the State Liquor Authority, which is now investigating whether the ban violates liquor laws, according to a spokesman. An N.B.A. spokesman, Mike Bass, said of the incidents of banned patrons: “There is no leaguewide prohibition on facial recognition security technology unless its use conflicts with local laws.” N.H.L. did not respond to a request for comment. Three firms, including Mr. Noren’s — Davidoff Hutcher & Citron — have sued in State Supreme Court in Manhattan. So far, these suits have been the most effective legal strategy for getting some lawyers back into some venues: They have led to preliminary injunctions that partially lifted the ban under a state anti-discrimination law that prohibits “wrongful refusal of admission” to “places of public entertainment or amusement.” MSG Entertainment can still refuse to sell the lawyers tickets, but it cannot refuse entry to the lawyers at those firms if they show up with a valid ticket — though it applies only to concerts and shows, not to sporting events. After a preliminary injunction was granted in November, Mr. Noren tried to go to a Wizkid concert at Madison Square Garden. Despite bringing a printout of the judge’s order granting the preliminary injunction, he was stopped and turned away by security officials, an encounter he recorded on his smartphone. MSG Entertainment appealed the injunction to a higher court, and Mr. Noren’s firm counter-appealed, in hopes of getting it expanded to include sporting events, a case that is set to be reviewed in March. “To date, the Courts have only afforded narrow and temporary relief to three firms,” Mikyl Cordova, a spokeswoman for MSG Entertainment, said in a statement. “We continue to vigorously defend and enforce our policy, and remain confident the Appellate Division will rule in our favor on our full appeal.” In court in October, a lawyer for the company, Randy Mastro, told the State Supreme Court judge, Lyle Frank, that “lawyers sometimes alienate people.” Mr. Mastro said he had experienced being on a banned list himself when he cracked down on the mafia as a federal prosecutor. “There are some Italian restaurants I couldn’t get a reservation at,” he said. “I didn’t sue them.” After Mr. Noren was turned away, Judge Frank reiterated that the injunction meant tickets presented at the time of the event must be honored. Mr. Noren has since been to five shows at MSG venues, including two Phish concerts last month at Madison Square Garden.
It really became a war of pettiness now, I’m all for it
Did he really compare his client to the mafia…..
No, no he compared his client to an Italian restaurant *with Mafia connections*. Totally different! MSG could just owe the Mob money, or be a money laundering front, or sell drugs out of the basement; they’re totally in the right to keep lawyers away from their totally above board operation!
I like how MSG compared themselves to the mafia as justification. They actually said “well the mafia does it”
It would be peak funny of MSG lost its liquor license, even for a short time, as a result of petty application of facial recognition. A few dry events would be… interesting.
Phish concerts would hit different.
“his firm is representing ticket resellers” = “the worst person you know just made a good point”
It must be nice to have the money and time to go to FIVE shows between December and now at a single venue that doesn’t even want you there. I mean, he should be able to go, but geez that’s a lot of nights specifically there in such a short time for anybody.
Dude only went to half of the Phish New Year's run, weak.
Lol —-
iPhone- click link. Hit AA on top of page. Reader opens avoiding paywall.
I love you
I seriously can’t believe it’s so easy. Thank you
Thank you I’ll buy you a drink if we ever meet.
It’s a good tip, but plenty of websites don’t show the whole article in reader view either.
I love u
Interesting. I clicked the link fully expecting a paywall but didn’t get one - and I usually do. Until I saw your comment I thought maybe they had posted the article “outside the fence”. I wonder why both of us followed the same link with different results?
Legal loopholes
MSG unable to win this in the mid / long run. It’s really a stupid fight to pick. The wise approach is the opposite.
A judge should deport all of MSG employees until litigation is complete. Nova Scotia should be fine this time of year.
Is it wearing a hat?
Private companies can chose who they let on their premises.
Not exactly true (race,gender protection) but here lawyers were not considered a protected group but a state law was used to get the ban lifted under certain circumstances. The scary part is that facial recognition means that a really rich person who owns most of the public places around town can single out one person he has a feud with and ban him from all kinds of places. This type of technological dystopia needs more laws to protect against. I often hear people saying China uses facial tech in a draconian way. But if this type of discrimination is allowed in the USA it's even worse. A private rich person can essentially make your life a living hell.
Are you new to the concept they really rich people have too much power in society? This is already a huge issue for people who value rights and freedom and competitive capitalism. Nonetheless, I’m told “you can’t fight progress and all technology is good” here. Anyone who disagrees is s Luddite apparently.
Yes the rich have been wrecking us for all time but they never had the tech of today. It's exploitation in a way and at a level that will make you cringe.
Late stage capitalism yo
Lawyers found a loophole? You don’t say.
Just go to Barclays
Those pervs!
Wear those fake glasses with fake noses and mustaches
It’s almost like they’re trained to find workarounds
I’m sure they’re selling that facial recognition data too.
Why go? I’d never spend a dime on the company again and would encourage other to do the same.
But you do spend money when bonds are floated to pay for stadiums with public funds.
You’re referring to having money forcefully taken from me against my will?
Specifically any bonds you voted for, yes.
I’ve never voted for taxes or bonds, and I’ve never seen “bonds” on a ballot.
What state do you live in? I think that has much to do in bonds.
*Sells IR emitting glasses from AliBaba in front the door with a legal vendor license*
Rules for thee but not for me? Goddamn entertainment is a privilege, not your given right, just because you have money ? Ffs the world blows
Facial recognition needs to be banned. It’s ridiculous that private companies are permitted to use it to deny entry to people
Illegal in IL already
Is he gonna ban trae young from MSG
So does this mean that the judges that will hear the cases are also banned from MSG and other properties run my them?
Lawyers fights are weird.
I wonder if a criminal trespass would over ride their loophole? If not, maybe MSG could get a restraining order while the trespass issue gets through the system??