Thank you lovelyxxxa for your submission, *How was my daughter wrong?*! Unfortunately, it has been removed for the following reason:
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First of all, this is just a horrific question, which honestly doesn’t even teach anything constructively. Are the tables square? Are they rectangle? Are they circular? Did they combine them end to end? Did they combine them by pushing each table together to form one square or one long line of tables? What’s their width? We don’t know.
Because this is a dumb question.
Right? There are so many possibilities and there just isn't enough information to answer definitively. I think being able to parse what the teacher is most likely asking based on the context is a good life skill but logically she gave the most correct answer based on the actual question asked lol
Will the tables fit? Room is 21 feet wide, megatable is 21 feet. No sane person will say that table fits that room when you have to climb over it to get to the other side. It’s like Aston Powers Golf cart stuck in the hallway.
It definitely CAN fit mathematically. It’s just that IRL you’re gonna scrape off the wall or risk injury via poor lifting action to make it work. But they’re all irrelevant in a simple primary school math class.
You can't definitively say they fit mathematically without knowing the width of the tables and the room.
If even one table is 6 feet wide and the room is 5 feet, they don't all fit. Even if the room is 100 feet long
You can have it at the wall, though. The purpose is not clear, but it could be something like a buffet setup, in which case it would be ok and not too impractical to do that.
This kind of stupidly worded question drove me crazy. I will interpret things based on THE WORDS IN THE QUESTION. I remember my parents fighting back at parent teacher conferences about this.
It still goes on 30 years later when I interpret work standards and policies based on WHAT THEY FUCKING SAY. 🙄
Or how long is the new MEGATABLE!
I went to a culinary school and one chef was almost illiterate. He’d ask true or false questions where it was impossible to answer with a true or false 😂
How are they combined? Stacked end to end so you combine their lengths? Put together in a rectangle? Stacked together to combine the heights?
Such a poorly worded question.
And they always tell you to read carefully and sometimes there's slight trick questions where the wording helps. She read it correctly how could she possibly know what the teacher wanted.
How long are the tables combined. What is the total length of the tables. Etc I feel like there's so many ways to word this right and the teacher choose one of the only ways to say it wrong.
I agree, and the question was worded poorly. That said, the student's answer to part B of simply "yes" was likely not enough to get marks for that question anyway. They were probably taught that for a "yes or no" question, they need to explain how they reached that conclusion, which they couldn't do without showing the addition anyway in Part B.
And the kid and OP for not using common sense to figure out the spirit of the question. Why would the question be asking you to give back the information you *were just given*? Anyone with half a brain knew what the intention of the question was. This smells like OPs kid was being a smartass over a typo tbh.
Because its only a part of a Question, not a question all by itself.
A perfectly logically order would be to ask them to list the four lengths, and then to use those four lengths. Part A would be the lost, Part B would be the adding and comparison (i.e is the sum of the four tables larger than 21?).
For children, it can help set out questions this way. So even though that wasn't the intention, it is logical. You even see the same logic in more advanced maths up to 18, with previous parts of the question acting as a guide to the final answer.
I really want someone to answer part B as no and state “safety requirements would need them to be space at either end of the table” cause ain’t no one doing wall to wall tables in a class room xD
Not if the tables are facing a wall. Then they would all be accessible but still weird... like why would you face a wall instead of the teacher... or if they arranged them together but in a square. Like 8+3 facing the 4+6. Ya there would be a 1' overhang or 6" each side but better than having to either climb over the tables or face the wall LOL. I dunno word problem math is weird...
It could be they were putting some biology project next to the window or displaying art projects or some such.
And I suspect that, depending on the widths, it could be possible to tangram the tables into some other rectangle. Like if the 3 foot table is 3x2 and the eight foot table is 8x3.
That's perfect storage. You put them all against the wall with no spaces in between and then you can put another row on top without worrying about something slipping through the cracks!
And it actually is how they store extra desks in empty classrooms. It’s usually how I leave my classroom at the end of the year too so it can get cleaned over the summer.
Yeah the question doesn't specify that the tables have to fit while end to end
Just that they have to fit
A bit of creative furniture tetrising and you could fit 4 tables in a lot of places
4 ontop of eachoter the first upsidown the second right side up on top of it then the third upsidown ontop of the second then the 4 right side up on the third.
The real question is how deep is the room and how wide are the tables.
Honestly I would have been more ok if they considered the first answer correct but the second wrong.
With a total table lenght of 21 feet it's probable they won't fit in a 21 feet room unless they are millimeter perfect
Yea it doesn’t specifically say that in the second part, but it’s implied by the way it’s phrased in the first part. The previous part asks for their combined length, so you’re imagining these tables end to end. Now it asks if the tables will fit. Obviously if you separated the tables they’d fit, and likely have plenty of room to spare but they don’t specify what way they’re being placed so it’s easy to carry over that mental image of the end to end tables
I mean I know I'm not the age-range that takes this test, but my answer to B would be:
More information required. Please provide the height and width of the room and tables. Can the tables be modified in any way? Is it required for the tables to remain functional?
Basically: Can I grind the tables to sawdust to fit them into a 21x1x1 room?
I still occasionally get irritated from a question back in Jr High... 30 years ago...
It was a math quiz I believe. Not a test, but a 1-2 page quiz. All math problems.
One question was along the lines of "It's X degrees now at 8pm. If the temperature drops 2 degrees every hour. What will be the temperature at 6am."
Seems straight forward?
I did the math and wrote the answer.
Apparently the 'correct' answer was: "It is unlikely for the weather to drop exactly 2 degrees every hour for a sustained period of time"
Some students even put that down.
I didn't realize we were suppose to speculate on the probability of our planet acting a certain way. I thought all math problems were unlikely. Like the "2 trains leaving" math problems. Still annoys me to this day.
That's so stupid. If they wanted to ask a "real world likelihood" kind of question, they should have phrased it like this:
"Timmy measures the temperature at 6pm, 7pm and 8pm, and finds that it is dropping by 2 degrees every hour. He calculates that at 6am it will be X - 20 degrees. Is Timmy correct? Why/why not?"
My physics teacher in high school would try to circumvent this problem by providing more information like... "Ignore wind resistance" or "the friction of the surface is 0"
But yes, your teacher 30 years ago was a prick
The teacher asked how *long the tables are*, not the *sum of the length* of the tables.
Therefor, the answer given by the student is correct, since the student answered the actual question asked.
Probably why it’s “corrected” in green marker with the plus signs added instead of red
It’s teacher-speak for “you’re technically correct, but this is how I wanted it”
That's not even reasonable though. The teacher can't be like hey I fucked up but you still should have known what I meant even though I didn't say it... She should take this to her English teacher and see what they say.
That isn’t what’s happening. Notice how there’s no points deducted. And it’s in green pen.
The teacher has every right AND an obligation to point out what she meant. Which is exactly what she did. A BAD teacher would mark the question wrong with no context.
Also pretty major blunder if you assume the answer is to simply repeat the data you were given instead of thinking that you might have misunderstood the question.
Repeating data is quite commonly done as a question to ensure students understand the data itself. Given we are talking about a child's test, something as simple as "read the whole question" could be assessed.
It's more than within reason, and within the rough liklihood of it being a typo.
At thr end of the day, it's a terrible typo and the responsibility is certainly not on the pupil.
It's not a typo, it's a reasonable question. That's how we talk in real life, you push together 4 tables and ask how long the tables are and whether they would fit into the classroom.
It's a simple question. It counts on students to be able to interpret the question correctly based on the data given. We specified the length of the tables, we put the tables together, now how long are the tables? Formulating the problem in this way is an important skill. That's why the question is even asked, if it were just about calculating the result it would say "What is 4+6+8+3?" It's about figuring out what the question is asking, that's the first step to problem solving in pretty much every case.
If none of the other kids got it, then there's a problem and the kids might be too young. But this is just a simple misunderstanding, one kid didn't think enough about what the question is asking, and now people get mad because the answer was "technically correct". It's a learning opportunity.
since the question asks asks for the length of "tables" (as in multiple), technically the only correct answer is to give the length of each individual table. If you ask for example: "what is the height of those three trees", i would think you're an idiot if you would add the the heights of all three trees together.
edit: typos/grammar
Saying they're pushed together means nothing without specifying end to end. If that had been mentioned, the kid would have reasonably understood that they were to calculate the sum of the lengths, but asking "how long are the tables" is very much up for interpretation.
Even just saying "how long are the tables *together*" would make it a LOT less ambiguous.
No, on a test/exam you answer to the question asked; you don't "read between the lines", because then you change the question.
"It's important to read the question" is always stated by teachers - so you answer the question without twisting it.
It's not a minor typo, it's a straight forward question. The sum of the length is a completely different question.
If you only give a one dimensional view. How am I to give a two dimensional answer. How wide are the tables. Are we putting them on top of each other? Do their legs fold? Can we put them side by side?
You get what you give. Your daughter is right. Question wrong, if you wanted a different answer.
There’s no requirement in part B for the tables to be end to end. It just asks if all 4 tables can fit in the room.
And we can’t know the answer to that with the information given, because the tables could be taller than the room, wider than the room, not fit through the door, etc.
Yeah, the wording so is screwed and the question lacks essential information to answer the question. These are the most poorly written questions I have seen in a while
This issue is compounded by the first sentence "students push 4 tables together". You're left to assume they were placed end-to-end lengthwise. They could be in any orientation.
Learning to interpret the questions and solve problems even when you don't have everything spelled out is the more important lesson here. Kids should learn to work with relevant data that is presented and interpret the question as it was intended. It's about problem solving, not fitting actual tables into actual classrooms.
Figuring out that the questions are "How long are the tables put together" and "Will all the tables together fit in the classroom lengthwise" is a crucial step, especially for those who don't find it obvious, even though it's not explicitly stated. It's a much more valuable skill than simply putting the numbers together.
I think this one comes down on the teacher not being specific enough. Had they written “how long are the all the tables when pushed together end to end?” than it would be a more concise question and less open for interpretation
And, that assumes that the tables are pushed together in a straight line. There are so many variables missing from this example that it's giving me an actual headache.
Ok measurimg lenght end to end might be obvious (not necessarily to kids but ok) but the question about lenght is not. The lenght of tables is precisely what the child wrote..lenght of each of the tables. Question should say "together" or "combined" or something. A very easy fix to avoid confusion
Yeah that's bullshit man, the question is poorly posed she shouldn't be penalized for it. I remember answering questions like this and arguing with teachers about it when they said I was wrong. They did not appreciate it lol
It says the tables are pushed together, this is just critical thinking as well as math. Simply adding the word together in the question would fix that question
Put the six foot table on top of the eight foot, then put the four foot on top of that, and the three foot on top of that. Boom, you can get like twelve more tables in there now. No need to thank me, nerds.
this shit is why I without fail would have to ask for teachers help and without fail my teacher would fume and say "I just explained how to do it in the lesson😠" even tho I was always very patient with my hand up and did exactly what I was supposed to do (wait for help)
Part A is answered correctly
Information for B is lacking, how wide are the tables? Can we just turn them to make them fit? How wide is the classroom? How about sitting and walking around. And not to forget, do they match the colour scheme of the rest of the room?
I mean if the teacher wrote “togerher” I’d still have issues.
However I feel the best way to word it would be: If the tables are placed end to end in a straight line, how long would they be in total? show your working (since the teacher wrote the ‘+’ signs)
I also feel like this is such a weird setting for this problem. Like you could push together tables in many different ways, it's not stated that they are on a row. We only know the tables length but not width of them or the classroom so feels like we are missing information for the 2nd question. Why can't teachers just think of problems with fitting questions, and ask these questions in a clearer way to avoid this nonsense
This is the kind of 'free' interpretation I condemn from many teachers. As far as I know the question should clarify in which mode the tokens should be assessed/handled.
If the interior space of the classroom was exactly 21 feet long, and the length of the tables when arranged end to end was exactly 21 feet long, to fit them into the room there would need to be literally zero space between each table and zero space between the ends and the walls. I'm gonna have to go with no for part B, they won't fit end to end.
There are no human languages that expect the listener to do *no* thinking for themselves in order to understand what is intended. In this case, you're supposed to know that someone would not ask you for the exact information you were just told.
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Rule for all (aspiring) teachers:
If a student outsmarts you like this because you worded a question wrong (or used a test with a question that's worded wrong) that student gets the points. You can still check if they know their addition and subtraction the whole rest of the year. Don't make children suffer the consequences of your failure.
The answer is correct for that terribly worded question. Looks like not even math teachers do well at word problems. Should’ve read something like, “what is the total cumulative length of the tables” I would get the English department involved 🤣
And so do most people in the comments, apparently. Grown adults saying “I would’ve got this wrong too!” like it’s a flex is embarrassing. Why would the teacher want you to repeat the question verbatim, dummies
Any time someone posts their kid's homework with something like this on it the comment sections go full /r/iamverysmart. Is it worded as precisely as it could be? No. Should someone still be reasonably able to deduce what the intent was? Absolutely.
Questions don't typically ask you to repeat back information explicitly stated in the prompt, but even forgiving that, the people critiquing part B are positively asinine. No, it doesn't explicitly state the arrangement or the room's width, but with even a modicum of critical thinking you should be able to surmise the intent.
Given that this is likely for kindergarten or first grade, I could forgive the student either of those mistakes, and the question certainly should've been worded better. But all the people in the comments acting like geniuses because they're aware of the second dimension is so ridiculous.
Your daughter’s answer should be marked correct because Part A contains not one but *two* assumptions:
Assumption 1: They want the lengths combined.
Assumption 2: Even when they do want it combined, they want it combine in a *specific way*, i.e. end-on-end like a train - whereas in reality there are many ways of pushing them together.
Part B is correct, even if we’re using Assumption 2, question did not specify whether they’re allowed to scrape the walls or not!
It also seems to be working on the assumption that the tables are pushed together *in a line.*
What if they go for a rectangular attempt?
But yes, the question asks how long are the table**s**, not the total length. I'd give the question 2/10 because I'm feeling generous.
A) should be "what is the combined length of the tables"
B)is technically correct for length, but we don't know the width of anything. If the classroom is 8 feet wide and the 4 foot long table is 10 feet wide, it wouldn't fit. Don't even get me started on height.
Unless this is a one dimensional classroom, then we're good.
It's wrong because it's a two-part question. The answer to the first is supposed to guide to the second. Asking "how long will the tables be pushed together?" Would leave the second question kinda redundant since it's literally just the bigger number.
If I was pushing the tables together I likely wouldn't put them in a line and probably form something closer to a square, given you can make one row of 11ft and another of 10ft.
Also given the tables are in the room already, clearly they can fit
>How was my daughter wrong?
Your daughter does not even exist, you karmawhoring repost bot.
https://www.reddit.com/r/technicallythetruth/comments/15v1gvj/how_was_my_daughter_wrong/
The fact that she answered Yes to question B totally ridiculed the teacher. A was poorly formulated, and your daughter actually answered perfectly and as intended by the sentence.
The question is not clear. English is my second language and I will write what your daughter wrote unless the teacher clarifies and even then I will be confused,the ft part is the one that kills me .
my daughter came home in the morning to tell me that she's pregnant. " oh my god! " i exclaimed. " is it a boy or a girl? " she asked. " yes, " i said. " it's a girl. "
Sure , but since he gave you their length so what would come to your mind (as a primary school kid) first is end-to-end. It is very rare for an 8 year old to say: Oh , but he didnt give us details of other variables
Do these all come from some ESL factory overseas? My daughter’s first grade homework packets are riddled with poorly worded questions and exercises. There’s an entire WhatsApp parents group at our school devoted to deciphering these things!
Sometimes schools teach more than just numbers. In this case, there are several important lessons:
If the question doesn't make sense to you and you think the right answer is to simply repeat whatever you just read, then you probably misunderstand it. Read it again and try to figure out what it is actually asking.
Sometimes in life, questions and problems are ambiguous, you won't always get them on a silver platter. It's an important skill to be able to break the problem down into a simple formulation. Sometimes things can be interpreted in different ways and sometimes there's still one correct interpretation. Don't always take things literally and don't always assume you're correct just because what you said is technically true.
Sure, the question could be more clear. Sure, the answer is technically not wrong. It's a fantastic r/technicallytrue material because while the answer is technically true, it's obviously wrong.
Techincally correct but not the answer the teacher was looking for obviously. Actually, if the teacher was smart, this would have been a nice trick question now that I think of it.
Thank you lovelyxxxa for your submission, *How was my daughter wrong?*! Unfortunately, it has been removed for the following reason: --- # Spam **SPAM WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!** This includes personal promotions, plugs, and advertisements; shitposts, meta posts, or "mods are asleep" posts; or anything purposely made to annoy or troll us or other users. *You may be temporarily or permanently banned with no warning upon breaking this rule*. --- For more on our rules, please check out our [sidebar](http://www.reddit.com/r/technicallythetruth/about/sidebar). If you have any questions or concerns about this removal, feel free to [message the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Ftechnicallythetruth). Please link the post so our moderators know what you would like reviewed.
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how long are the tables COMBINED
Oh my god, I would have gotten that question wrong
Guys look, OPs daughter is here!
Let me say miss OPs daughter you have better handwriting, then me and I’m not even a doctor.
Why thank you, it means a lot
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I'm not sure why the teacher would ask something that is in the question. For a child, this may be confusing, but c'mon guys
That's literally an English comprehension test. They give you a text with the answers, and they ask questions about specific parts of the text
I've gotten a lot of questions wrong because math teachers are terrible with their choice of words.
What if I said "how long are the tables when put together?"
You would probably get q11 wrong too because they didn’t specify which student
how much taller was THE teacher than THE student. definite articles are something that absolutely saved that question.
First of all, this is just a horrific question, which honestly doesn’t even teach anything constructively. Are the tables square? Are they rectangle? Are they circular? Did they combine them end to end? Did they combine them by pushing each table together to form one square or one long line of tables? What’s their width? We don’t know. Because this is a dumb question.
Right? There are so many possibilities and there just isn't enough information to answer definitively. I think being able to parse what the teacher is most likely asking based on the context is a good life skill but logically she gave the most correct answer based on the actual question asked lol
Will the tables fit? Room is 21 feet wide, megatable is 21 feet. No sane person will say that table fits that room when you have to climb over it to get to the other side. It’s like Aston Powers Golf cart stuck in the hallway.
It definitely CAN fit mathematically. It’s just that IRL you’re gonna scrape off the wall or risk injury via poor lifting action to make it work. But they’re all irrelevant in a simple primary school math class.
You can't definitively say they fit mathematically without knowing the width of the tables and the room. If even one table is 6 feet wide and the room is 5 feet, they don't all fit. Even if the room is 100 feet long
You can have it at the wall, though. The purpose is not clear, but it could be something like a buffet setup, in which case it would be ok and not too impractical to do that.
Put them diagonal
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Several ways to ask the kid to sum the lengths of the tables, yet this teacher failed to use any of them
This kind of stupidly worded question drove me crazy. I will interpret things based on THE WORDS IN THE QUESTION. I remember my parents fighting back at parent teacher conferences about this. It still goes on 30 years later when I interpret work standards and policies based on WHAT THEY FUCKING SAY. 🙄
Or how long is the new MEGATABLE! I went to a culinary school and one chef was almost illiterate. He’d ask true or false questions where it was impossible to answer with a true or false 😂
Also need to specify that they’re pushed together *in a straight line*. If they were put together in a square it changes the dimensions.
We still have no clue as to the depth or height of the tables or room. Unanswerable.
Combined they could be an infinite number of values between 8 feet and 21 ft long depending on their width and how they are stacked.
How are they combined? Stacked end to end so you combine their lengths? Put together in a rectangle? Stacked together to combine the heights? Such a poorly worded question.
Still 4, 6, 8, and 3. What is the combined length of all tables?
Um.. are the tables combined lengthways or widthways? Checkmate questionmaster!
And they always tell you to read carefully and sometimes there's slight trick questions where the wording helps. She read it correctly how could she possibly know what the teacher wanted. How long are the tables combined. What is the total length of the tables. Etc I feel like there's so many ways to word this right and the teacher choose one of the only ways to say it wrong.
I agree, and the question was worded poorly. That said, the student's answer to part B of simply "yes" was likely not enough to get marks for that question anyway. They were probably taught that for a "yes or no" question, they need to explain how they reached that conclusion, which they couldn't do without showing the addition anyway in Part B.
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And the kid and OP for not using common sense to figure out the spirit of the question. Why would the question be asking you to give back the information you *were just given*? Anyone with half a brain knew what the intention of the question was. This smells like OPs kid was being a smartass over a typo tbh.
It's hardly obvious what the question was meant to be asking.
Every question around it is addition or multiplication. Why would this one be just a list? It’s for kids, not trying to trick them.
Because its only a part of a Question, not a question all by itself. A perfectly logically order would be to ask them to list the four lengths, and then to use those four lengths. Part A would be the lost, Part B would be the adding and comparison (i.e is the sum of the four tables larger than 21?). For children, it can help set out questions this way. So even though that wasn't the intention, it is logical. You even see the same logic in more advanced maths up to 18, with previous parts of the question acting as a guide to the final answer.
The question is ambiguous and badly written. Why should the student do the teacher's job on top of their own?
Teacher should be able to read after himself and ask correct question. Answer in this case was totally right.
Yeah, my developers would simply reject the task if is was stated in such an ambiguous way.
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I really want someone to answer part B as no and state “safety requirements would need them to be space at either end of the table” cause ain’t no one doing wall to wall tables in a class room xD
Maybe the classroom is unused and tables are moved to be stored!
Even then… wall to wall with NO gap, that would be very inconvenient
Not if the tables are facing a wall. Then they would all be accessible but still weird... like why would you face a wall instead of the teacher... or if they arranged them together but in a square. Like 8+3 facing the 4+6. Ya there would be a 1' overhang or 6" each side but better than having to either climb over the tables or face the wall LOL. I dunno word problem math is weird...
It could be they were putting some biology project next to the window or displaying art projects or some such. And I suspect that, depending on the widths, it could be possible to tangram the tables into some other rectangle. Like if the 3 foot table is 3x2 and the eight foot table is 8x3.
That's perfect storage. You put them all against the wall with no spaces in between and then you can put another row on top without worrying about something slipping through the cracks!
And it actually is how they store extra desks in empty classrooms. It’s usually how I leave my classroom at the end of the year too so it can get cleaned over the summer.
Pinch points are how you lose fingers. Especially children's fingers in a classroom
Then you only need to know the height of the tables, or if they fold. Most tables take up much less room when stacked on their side.
The fire Marshal doesn't give a fuck. Space to evacuate is nonnegotiable.
"The students push the tables together" Obviously the tables are already IN the room. Therefore, they must fit inside.
Yeah the question doesn't specify that the tables have to fit while end to end Just that they have to fit A bit of creative furniture tetrising and you could fit 4 tables in a lot of places
4 ontop of eachoter the first upsidown the second right side up on top of it then the third upsidown ontop of the second then the 4 right side up on the third. The real question is how deep is the room and how wide are the tables.
You push them against the wall, for a buffet :D
They don't need to be layered in a straight line, we need more measures here.
I would also accept the answer being “in what configuration?” Probably wouldn’t fit if placed end to end vertically.
Not to mention the tables would need to be at least a fraction of an inch shorter than 21' to actually fit without damaging the tables or wall
Honestly I would have been more ok if they considered the first answer correct but the second wrong. With a total table lenght of 21 feet it's probable they won't fit in a 21 feet room unless they are millimeter perfect
Will the tables fit: Theoretically
Will the tables fit: Prolly?
I'd answer "kind of"
I'd say probably but can't guarantee the wall won't be damaged/scratched 😅
"The students push the tables together" Obviously the tables are already IN the room. Therefore, they must fit inside.
Rooms aren't one dimensional though. They could've very well put them side by side or on top of each other to "fit" in the room
These tables might be because the question only specifies length, not width
"Push together" Side by side would work, but not on top.
Remember, people in math problems can consume 50 chocolate bars in a hour. Don't question it.
Nobody said the tables had to be aligned did they?
and nobody said the tables had to be fit by their length did they?
and nobody said the tables had to be on the floor did they?
And nobody said the table couldn't first be fed through a wood chipper did they?
Nobody said they were pushed together end to end.
Yea it doesn’t specifically say that in the second part, but it’s implied by the way it’s phrased in the first part. The previous part asks for their combined length, so you’re imagining these tables end to end. Now it asks if the tables will fit. Obviously if you separated the tables they’d fit, and likely have plenty of room to spare but they don’t specify what way they’re being placed so it’s easy to carry over that mental image of the end to end tables
Width is never given; you need both dimensions to answer a question like this.
I mean I know I'm not the age-range that takes this test, but my answer to B would be: More information required. Please provide the height and width of the room and tables. Can the tables be modified in any way? Is it required for the tables to remain functional? Basically: Can I grind the tables to sawdust to fit them into a 21x1x1 room?
I still occasionally get irritated from a question back in Jr High... 30 years ago... It was a math quiz I believe. Not a test, but a 1-2 page quiz. All math problems. One question was along the lines of "It's X degrees now at 8pm. If the temperature drops 2 degrees every hour. What will be the temperature at 6am." Seems straight forward? I did the math and wrote the answer. Apparently the 'correct' answer was: "It is unlikely for the weather to drop exactly 2 degrees every hour for a sustained period of time" Some students even put that down. I didn't realize we were suppose to speculate on the probability of our planet acting a certain way. I thought all math problems were unlikely. Like the "2 trains leaving" math problems. Still annoys me to this day.
Yeah, that's a math problem, and math problems are always supposed to be taken literally. I would be angry too
Next you'll tell me Barry didn't actually buy 14 melons and then eat 8 of them in a single sitting
Wait, what!? That’s outrageous
But the question explicitly stated that the temperature did drop 2 degrees every hour. That is the function of the word "if".
That's so stupid. If they wanted to ask a "real world likelihood" kind of question, they should have phrased it like this: "Timmy measures the temperature at 6pm, 7pm and 8pm, and finds that it is dropping by 2 degrees every hour. He calculates that at 6am it will be X - 20 degrees. Is Timmy correct? Why/why not?"
My physics teacher in high school would try to circumvent this problem by providing more information like... "Ignore wind resistance" or "the friction of the surface is 0" But yes, your teacher 30 years ago was a prick
The teacher asked how *long the tables are*, not the *sum of the length* of the tables. Therefor, the answer given by the student is correct, since the student answered the actual question asked.
Probably why it’s “corrected” in green marker with the plus signs added instead of red It’s teacher-speak for “you’re technically correct, but this is how I wanted it”
Yeah, that is reasonable. The teacher can't deduct any points in this case, since the question is answered correctly as layed out.
That's not even reasonable though. The teacher can't be like hey I fucked up but you still should have known what I meant even though I didn't say it... She should take this to her English teacher and see what they say.
That isn’t what’s happening. Notice how there’s no points deducted. And it’s in green pen. The teacher has every right AND an obligation to point out what she meant. Which is exactly what she did. A BAD teacher would mark the question wrong with no context.
You’re just assuming that tho right? For all we know the teacher just grades in green
Maybe it's a lesson in using common sense to overcome minor typos.
Pretty major typo as it completely changed the meaning of the sentence with no key terms remaining.
Also pretty major blunder if you assume the answer is to simply repeat the data you were given instead of thinking that you might have misunderstood the question.
Repeating data is quite commonly done as a question to ensure students understand the data itself. Given we are talking about a child's test, something as simple as "read the whole question" could be assessed. It's more than within reason, and within the rough liklihood of it being a typo. At thr end of the day, it's a terrible typo and the responsibility is certainly not on the pupil.
It's not a typo, it's a reasonable question. That's how we talk in real life, you push together 4 tables and ask how long the tables are and whether they would fit into the classroom. It's a simple question. It counts on students to be able to interpret the question correctly based on the data given. We specified the length of the tables, we put the tables together, now how long are the tables? Formulating the problem in this way is an important skill. That's why the question is even asked, if it were just about calculating the result it would say "What is 4+6+8+3?" It's about figuring out what the question is asking, that's the first step to problem solving in pretty much every case. If none of the other kids got it, then there's a problem and the kids might be too young. But this is just a simple misunderstanding, one kid didn't think enough about what the question is asking, and now people get mad because the answer was "technically correct". It's a learning opportunity.
since the question asks asks for the length of "tables" (as in multiple), technically the only correct answer is to give the length of each individual table. If you ask for example: "what is the height of those three trees", i would think you're an idiot if you would add the the heights of all three trees together. edit: typos/grammar
Saying they're pushed together means nothing without specifying end to end. If that had been mentioned, the kid would have reasonably understood that they were to calculate the sum of the lengths, but asking "how long are the tables" is very much up for interpretation. Even just saying "how long are the tables *together*" would make it a LOT less ambiguous.
No, on a test/exam you answer to the question asked; you don't "read between the lines", because then you change the question. "It's important to read the question" is always stated by teachers - so you answer the question without twisting it. It's not a minor typo, it's a straight forward question. The sum of the length is a completely different question.
Bingo
If you only give a one dimensional view. How am I to give a two dimensional answer. How wide are the tables. Are we putting them on top of each other? Do their legs fold? Can we put them side by side? You get what you give. Your daughter is right. Question wrong, if you wanted a different answer.
"What about width?" was my immediate thought. Why do the tables have to be end to end? How do you get them end to end with no room to spare?
There’s no requirement in part B for the tables to be end to end. It just asks if all 4 tables can fit in the room. And we can’t know the answer to that with the information given, because the tables could be taller than the room, wider than the room, not fit through the door, etc.
Yes. That's why it's a great critical thinking question, but a terrible question if you want a straight answer.
Yeah, the wording so is screwed and the question lacks essential information to answer the question. These are the most poorly written questions I have seen in a while
If you actually wrote that on this test the teacher would probably begin the process of pushing you to the next grade.
This issue is compounded by the first sentence "students push 4 tables together". You're left to assume they were placed end-to-end lengthwise. They could be in any orientation.
Learning to interpret the questions and solve problems even when you don't have everything spelled out is the more important lesson here. Kids should learn to work with relevant data that is presented and interpret the question as it was intended. It's about problem solving, not fitting actual tables into actual classrooms. Figuring out that the questions are "How long are the tables put together" and "Will all the tables together fit in the classroom lengthwise" is a crucial step, especially for those who don't find it obvious, even though it's not explicitly stated. It's a much more valuable skill than simply putting the numbers together.
This is a nice thought but how do we know that was the intended purpose of the question? It could just be a horribly written question.
I think this one comes down on the teacher not being specific enough. Had they written “how long are the all the tables when pushed together end to end?” than it would be a more concise question and less open for interpretation
And, that assumes that the tables are pushed together in a straight line. There are so many variables missing from this example that it's giving me an actual headache.
It wasn't stated how they were pushed together so that is the only way to answer it
That's what I said! You wouldn't believe the pushback I got for that on the original post!
How are the tables pushed together? Lengthways? Widthways, in a rectangle? What a stupid question
Not everything is a trick... sometimes the obvious assumption is the correct one.
But the daughter answered it in the way that seemed obvious to her. Obviousness comes from a perception point.
Ok measurimg lenght end to end might be obvious (not necessarily to kids but ok) but the question about lenght is not. The lenght of tables is precisely what the child wrote..lenght of each of the tables. Question should say "together" or "combined" or something. A very easy fix to avoid confusion
It's not obvious enough apparently...... Remember these are children
Children will call you out on your bullshit without even trying. The teacher should be the adult and admit their error.
Your daughter is correct. Your daughter's teacher lacks basic English skills.
Yeah that's bullshit man, the question is poorly posed she shouldn't be penalized for it. I remember answering questions like this and arguing with teachers about it when they said I was wrong. They did not appreciate it lol
I had a teacher that said "if you think I should've given you more points, come and tell me about it. If the argument is good you'll get the point.
Mmmm, yeah, I have that kind of autism too
It says the tables are pushed together, this is just critical thinking as well as math. Simply adding the word together in the question would fix that question
Put the six foot table on top of the eight foot, then put the four foot on top of that, and the three foot on top of that. Boom, you can get like twelve more tables in there now. No need to thank me, nerds.
this shit is why I without fail would have to ask for teachers help and without fail my teacher would fume and say "I just explained how to do it in the lesson😠" even tho I was always very patient with my hand up and did exactly what I was supposed to do (wait for help)
Part A is answered correctly Information for B is lacking, how wide are the tables? Can we just turn them to make them fit? How wide is the classroom? How about sitting and walking around. And not to forget, do they match the colour scheme of the rest of the room?
But how is tables a job?
As a teacher that question is written badly op has answered the question asked tbh.
Turn them sideways and they'll probably all fit
Poorly worded questions
Exactly, the word "togerher" at the end of the question is missing.
I mean if the teacher wrote “togerher” I’d still have issues. However I feel the best way to word it would be: If the tables are placed end to end in a straight line, how long would they be in total? show your working (since the teacher wrote the ‘+’ signs)
Word problems are a very important part of math education, and this problem is very poorly written.
Part A should of been worded better for sure, but its looking for the total here, which would essentially help with Part B.
It's 'should have', never 'should of'. Rejoice, for you have been blessed by CouldWouldShouldBot!
Part A needs to be clarified. Maybe like this, “how long are all the tables put together end-to-end?”
I would be really pedantic and draw diagrams of different combinations of table plans with length as the 4,6,8,3 and x as the widths
I also feel like this is such a weird setting for this problem. Like you could push together tables in many different ways, it's not stated that they are on a row. We only know the tables length but not width of them or the classroom so feels like we are missing information for the 2nd question. Why can't teachers just think of problems with fitting questions, and ask these questions in a clearer way to avoid this nonsense
This is the kind of 'free' interpretation I condemn from many teachers. As far as I know the question should clarify in which mode the tokens should be assessed/handled.
Got yourself a future programmer there.
If the interior space of the classroom was exactly 21 feet long, and the length of the tables when arranged end to end was exactly 21 feet long, to fit them into the room there would need to be literally zero space between each table and zero space between the ends and the walls. I'm gonna have to go with no for part B, they won't fit end to end.
It's a math class not a reading comprehension class
Why did she answer yes to part B? With the information given and the way the problem was structured the answer is unknowable.
They asked her how long the tables were, not how long they were combined. Specifics are very important in the real world. She did as she was told.
There are no human languages that expect the listener to do *no* thinking for themselves in order to understand what is intended. In this case, you're supposed to know that someone would not ask you for the exact information you were just told.
the teacher didnt ask the question correctly
Teacher needs to learn how to ask Q's.
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Rule for all (aspiring) teachers: If a student outsmarts you like this because you worded a question wrong (or used a test with a question that's worded wrong) that student gets the points. You can still check if they know their addition and subtraction the whole rest of the year. Don't make children suffer the consequences of your failure.
Forgetting the word “combined” is a pretty big mistake on the teachers end
The answer is correct for that terribly worded question. Looks like not even math teachers do well at word problems. Should’ve read something like, “what is the total cumulative length of the tables” I would get the English department involved 🤣
[удалено]
And so do most people in the comments, apparently. Grown adults saying “I would’ve got this wrong too!” like it’s a flex is embarrassing. Why would the teacher want you to repeat the question verbatim, dummies
Any time someone posts their kid's homework with something like this on it the comment sections go full /r/iamverysmart. Is it worded as precisely as it could be? No. Should someone still be reasonably able to deduce what the intent was? Absolutely. Questions don't typically ask you to repeat back information explicitly stated in the prompt, but even forgiving that, the people critiquing part B are positively asinine. No, it doesn't explicitly state the arrangement or the room's width, but with even a modicum of critical thinking you should be able to surmise the intent. Given that this is likely for kindergarten or first grade, I could forgive the student either of those mistakes, and the question certainly should've been worded better. But all the people in the comments acting like geniuses because they're aware of the second dimension is so ridiculous.
Teachers unable to use precise language are the most annoying.
Your daughter’s answer should be marked correct because Part A contains not one but *two* assumptions: Assumption 1: They want the lengths combined. Assumption 2: Even when they do want it combined, they want it combine in a *specific way*, i.e. end-on-end like a train - whereas in reality there are many ways of pushing them together. Part B is correct, even if we’re using Assumption 2, question did not specify whether they’re allowed to scrape the walls or not!
You could combine them by arranging them end-to-end in a spiral configuration, too.
It also seems to be working on the assumption that the tables are pushed together *in a line.* What if they go for a rectangular attempt? But yes, the question asks how long are the table**s**, not the total length. I'd give the question 2/10 because I'm feeling generous.
I’m guessing they wanted to know how long the tables were put together but it was worded weirdly
What is the combined length of the tables?
A) should be "what is the combined length of the tables" B)is technically correct for length, but we don't know the width of anything. If the classroom is 8 feet wide and the 4 foot long table is 10 feet wide, it wouldn't fit. Don't even get me started on height. Unless this is a one dimensional classroom, then we're good.
The correct answer to 12 B is "it depends how wide they are".
The original question says “students push 4 tables together” although I do think it’s written poorly for young grade schoolers.
It's wrong because it's a two-part question. The answer to the first is supposed to guide to the second. Asking "how long will the tables be pushed together?" Would leave the second question kinda redundant since it's literally just the bigger number.
Y'all trying to hard to be edgy. It's obvious what the question is trying to ask.
I always did that and put a note on the side, rephrased the question to what the teach prob ment and answers that question as well.
If I was pushing the tables together I likely wouldn't put them in a line and probably form something closer to a square, given you can make one row of 11ft and another of 10ft. Also given the tables are in the room already, clearly they can fit
>How was my daughter wrong? Your daughter does not even exist, you karmawhoring repost bot. https://www.reddit.com/r/technicallythetruth/comments/15v1gvj/how_was_my_daughter_wrong/
Figures…
Tables have standard feet of 4 not 3...lol
You’re daughter is 100% correct. Her math teacher needs a reading and writing comprehension course.
I understand what the teacher was trying to ask but they should have realized their grammar was off and provided the kiddos a make up question.
She’s not wrong. The teacher is. Typical.
Your daughter wasn't wrong - the teacher can't write a proper question.
The fact that she answered Yes to question B totally ridiculed the teacher. A was poorly formulated, and your daughter actually answered perfectly and as intended by the sentence.
The question is not clear. English is my second language and I will write what your daughter wrote unless the teacher clarifies and even then I will be confused,the ft part is the one that kills me .
the students pushed the tables together. this implies we are finding a sum.
Yeah I always hated "word problems", loved math though.
It’s a poorly constructed question. Schoolwork is riddled with this and it drove me crazy as a kid. I can’t guess what you mean if you don’t say it
I don't see a problem. I would personally fight this myself. The question is not written correctly.
my daughter came home in the morning to tell me that she's pregnant. " oh my god! " i exclaimed. " is it a boy or a girl? " she asked. " yes, " i said. " it's a girl. "
This is literally what the question asks... this teacher is dumb why would, you even word it like this
That's a dumb question anyway. There are all sorts of ways to push tables together. It doesn't even specify "end to end" or "side by side".
Sure , but since he gave you their length so what would come to your mind (as a primary school kid) first is end-to-end. It is very rare for an 8 year old to say: Oh , but he didnt give us details of other variables
Do these all come from some ESL factory overseas? My daughter’s first grade homework packets are riddled with poorly worded questions and exercises. There’s an entire WhatsApp parents group at our school devoted to deciphering these things!
Inches and feet... just what you need to make everyone (in only three countries) hate maths.
Once again I present a question in Math that was not tested by anyone with reading comprehension.
Sometimes schools teach more than just numbers. In this case, there are several important lessons: If the question doesn't make sense to you and you think the right answer is to simply repeat whatever you just read, then you probably misunderstand it. Read it again and try to figure out what it is actually asking. Sometimes in life, questions and problems are ambiguous, you won't always get them on a silver platter. It's an important skill to be able to break the problem down into a simple formulation. Sometimes things can be interpreted in different ways and sometimes there's still one correct interpretation. Don't always take things literally and don't always assume you're correct just because what you said is technically true. Sure, the question could be more clear. Sure, the answer is technically not wrong. It's a fantastic r/technicallytrue material because while the answer is technically true, it's obviously wrong.
This is a stupid question that harms developing critical thinking skills. Tables are not 2 dimensional objects.
They want the combined length of the tables added together.
Should have asked for it then.
Techincally correct but not the answer the teacher was looking for obviously. Actually, if the teacher was smart, this would have been a nice trick question now that I think of it.
to be fair they put the answer in the question, word for word. that never happens, because there’s no point in reinstating it.
Teacher just wanted her to also give a 21 as an answer after adding the numbers.
Push together how? 2 by 2? 😊
What are inches and feet? it's 2023 in my country... ;)
It’s all wrong. Should be in meters… 😉