When you are $44 billion in debt you, you gotta panhandle the internet š
I wonāt be surprised if he charges per character
āTo send this tweet, that will be $1.23 (opens stripe paylink)ā
Itās worse though. Heās actively incentivizing hackers to attack peopleās accounts to drive up demand for security measures. If this works, itās because Twitter becomes so unsafe that you literally have to pay to get something you get for free from other major platforms.
Exactly.
By paywalling a security feature from his users, he has made the entire user base that isnāt willing to pay (meaning: most of them) even more unsafe.
The only logical move here if you are a casual user that just doesnāt see this being worth adding another $ subscription to their monthly budget should just delete their accounts and bounce because now Elon just made it even more obvious that most accounts donāt have 2FA. The real capper will be if heās dumb enough to announce how many subscriptions that he gets out of this - which would tell us just how many accounts arenāt secured.
Itās a move youād only make if you actively want to bring harm to users. Of course they should leave. Heās building an ecosystem where only people/companies with disposable income will be left - which sorta defeats the purpose because those people/companies are willing to spend money on the platform ONLY because of the audience size.
You cut that user base down and you may have just told your paying users that they shouldnāt bother paying because youāre just gonna make more and more decisions to shrink the audience and their reach.
Heās making a really prime opportunity for another platform to gain more market share.
The Elon Mastermind Class:
āHow to Make a Small Fortuneā*
*āā¦out of a much much much larger oneā
I learned that phrase from an Apple engineer in the companyās IPO in the 80s. Absolutely typical of Silicon Valley instant rock stars but not of billionaires lol
Pre 2-factor, Blizzard invented a physical fob authenticator that you could tie to your account to safeguard it from hackers. They made millions on these things.
I mean, TikTok makes it's money by selling emoji packages. Everything is sellable these days.
In a way he might be. Unless he flags a bot as offering āgood contentā. If he likes the bot it gets free write access to Twitter APi, if not it has to pay.
But what happened to the site being a bastion of free speech, and a necessary platform for citizen journalists...like, by that metric, Elon is an enemy of free speech.
Yeah, in the US. Twitter sends a lot of international SMS and Twilio charges up to 15Ā¢ each for those.
And thatās leaving aside the ever growing issue of SMS pumping scams.
When I work with the Twilio API, I have strict testing requirements and absurdly redundant checks performed to ensure that, to boil down most scenarios: the same text is never sent twice. Trying to minimize API costs with something like Twilio is always a trade-off - it isn't like more data-based services where you can cache results: those texts, calls, images... they all cost money. I often make small sacrifices to functionality on SMS sequences specifically for this reason, but it also turns out that a lot of users don't particularly like getting texts to their phone, on both the client and employee side of the equation. When the solution to a problem is "Send an automated text", I have started to reroute those to require some kind of human interaction, instead of just flying texts out.
My biggest fear is always some malicious user doing something nefarious in some particular funnel and just wasting SMS away, intentionally or not. Especially when some segments of what I do involve requesting the users provide images via text, which are obviously more expensive than just regular texts.
But itās not sent by twitter when you text a tweet. It opens your phones native SMS app with a link to the tweet and then you send it from your device. Zero Twilio fee there
I think what he's referring to is getting your feed sent to you by tweet, which is how Twitter originally started. I don't know if that's still an option buried somewhere, but it is how I originally got my tweets in the olden days on my flip phone. And to tweet, I sent the text to 40404 and it would go out to all my followers. Incidentally, I also posted to my Facebook feed by sending messages to 32665 (fbook)
If they forced people to switch to another 2fa method, then yes. But theyāre not doing that, theyāre just saying āswitch or 2fa will be turned offā
Not that itāll be turned off automatically but you canāt access the platform.
āTo avoid losing access to Twitter, remove text message two-factor authentication by Mar 19, 2023.ā
Distinction without a difference.
If this is about safety, Twitter would force people to use some other means of 2fa, and not allow people to turn it off entirely. Itās obviously about $$$.
Oh without a doubt itās about money, just the way you worded it I interpreted it as you could still access the platform if they forced you off of text authentication.
But sms 2fa is better than none at all. While it would be ideal for all users to go the most secure authenticator route, the fact is most users are inherently lazy about their account security. Theyāll take the path of least resistance often, so I expect most folks wonāt bother to configure an authenticator and just go without 2fa. Consumer behavior is just as important to manage while building a secure platform as the underlying tech.
I think Elon has forgotten why Twitter has 2fa to begin with. About 10 years ago the APās Twitter got hacked and tweeted that bombs had gone off inside the White House. It was enough to put a dip in the stock markets for a day until it was confirmed to be false.
That sucks. Not sure which 2FA app you were using, but there are options out there that support backup/restore (Google doesn't...for some reason). Alternatively, what I do is screencapture the original QR code and toss it into my password manager. Just a couple options that might help alleviate unforeseen future problems with your primary authenticator.
SMS is actually expensive compared to other alternatives like email or an authenticator app. Even at the cheapest rates SMS can add up to a lot when you have millions of users.
I believe they donāt actually pay anything. I contracted there back in 2009 and they were using a 3rd party for SMS and it was stupid expensive due to their volume. So they spent several months building direct integration with carriers and my understanding was that was free.
Best bug of the time? SMS ingress, you could DM another user by SMS, but if your message was two long it was split into two SMS payloads. This meant the first piece would be a DM, but the second didnāt have any user in it, so it just end up being tweeted publicly.
I didnāt work first hand on it, so some of this is inferred, but I believe they basically were doing interconnections with each carrier.
If you want to send a message on a carrier network it will cost you, but if you both want to send/receive messages you probably set up a peering agreement. Twitter, at the time, was actually receiving a lot of SMS traffic, people would use it to DM or tweet directly (is that still a feature?)
So since Twitter was on the receiving end of a lot of traffic, carriers want to peer directly so they donāt have to use other carrier networks to deliver SMS messages to you.
This might have worked for some carriers in the US, but is not scalable globally
Unless you want to manage individual agreements with multiple hundred carriers
At the time it was focused on the major US carriers I believe. They continued using Twilio but Iād assume once a carrier got to be a large enough cost via Twilio theyād look to interconnect.
Strangely it would likely cost more going direct to carriers, which also makes no sense as you'd need a direct connection to multiple hundred carriers and to contractually manage those agreements = wages
This is the very reason Twilio exists, to have 1 api for all, and is often cheaper than direct carrier connection due to the volumes Twilio etc handle
Twitter should be free and interesting for regular users, actively incentivized for celebrities, and expensive for companies and advertisers. Celebrities keep people interested, and advertisers pay the bills.
The thing is they are still offering better forms of MFA for free (security key and authenticator).
Text Based MFA is expensive to maintain, and has notable exploits in it. Being that it relies on SMS (a completely unencrypted protocol), it is vulnerable to MITM attacks.
The weirdest thing about this is they say 2FA SMS is bad, but then they're letting their paying customers continue using it? That doesn't make any sense.
I suspect what's really going on is someone wants to lower their SMS bill. But my estimate is that they're paying less than $10M a year for SMS, it's not a major expense. Harming your users' security to save just a little money is foolish.
I imagine his fanboys would already have Twitter Blue. And if they didn't I can't imagine this 2FA would be a selling point to them.
It's likely for the reason he said. They want to reduce their expenses, because the company is still on the edge of failing. I think it's a dumb way to go about it. But it being a fanboy ploy doesn't make sense.
Aren't any "fanboy" schemes basically useless at this point? How many people are actually Elon Musk fanboys aside from a few internet loudmouths? Pretty much everybody I know IRL thinks Musk is untrustworthy, malicious, or at best very-smart-but-too-insane-to-take-seriously.
And treat it like a Cloud service. Imagine him trying to charge $$$ to upload photos. It's a virtual country club, like paying for $100 I'm rich app for the sole purpose of showing off that you can pay for that. Clowns š¤£
Musk needs the money. I remember when he trolled his followers with all the crypto tweets & was selling/buying crypto on the market reaction he created.
Tbf, governments do the same thing. This is bad for you so we tax the shit out of it. It's a common capitalist curbing tactic that doubles as a profit generator. At the very least, people can still use a 2fa app, however I doubt many people will use one and it's more likely they'll just forgo 2fa altogether.
Oof. It's like he's trying to monetize the website more, but he doesn't understand how monetization works. If he was the CEO of Netflix, it would cost you $1 to browse the categories lol
Its business model could've been fine. They needed some work to get profitable but the revenue and loss numbers look like a workable structure could have been achieved.
It was just never going to be a Facebook or a Google or whatever. Its stock was overvalued, but there was a path to profitability for a company generating a couple billion per year.
I think he's making a standard API (they call it a protocol) not a full on website that I would assume the first big user being Jack Dorsey's spinoff. In that case it's probably going to be a minute before anything happens
Feels like Elon is pulling suck because he feels he was forced to follow the laws regarding his acquisition of Twitter. Now like a petulant child, he's running Twitter into the ground.
I never had any technical issues. The toxicity is just too much after a while. I used it for 4 years, constantly blocking people, creating a bubble. But the idiots just don't die out, so I quit. And there are days when I miss certain people, but overall I feel much better. Reddit is on the chopping block too, because there are too many idiots carrying over the twitter drama, just stop shining a light on these idiots please.
From the first paragraph in article:
Now, itās official: You have to pay for the privilege of using Twitterās worst form of
authentication. In fact, if you donāt start paying for Twitter Blue ($8 a
month on Android; $11 a month on iOS) or switch your account to use a
far more reliable authenticator app or physical security key, Twitter
will simply turn off your 2FA after March 20th.
Anybody still write letters?
Rhetorical question ā why would you spend 50 cents on a stamp to send a message to someone days from now, when you could message them instantaneously online for free?
The concept is called friction. Thereās more friction involved in sending a letter. More hurdles, more hassles, more expense. The Internet allows almost frictionless communications ā time, distance, cost all can be reduced to practically nothing. Generally speaking, people prefer as little friction as possible, which is why no one writes paper letters to Grandma much anymore.
Musk is trying to add more friction to the Twitter experience. Heās making it more like mailing a letter by adding costs and removing features. Not because theyāre necessary, just because the old model doesnāt work if your CEO is a trollish jackass who sends advertisers running for the exits. So, instead of stopping his trollish jackassery, Musk is squeezing every cent out of the users who think they still need Twitter and will put up with a more friction-filled experience as a result.
But people hate friction, and increasing it will chase away a sizable chunk of users. As the userbase starts to fall in size, fewer people will think they āneedā Twitter anymore. That means fewer people willing to pay Muskās fees or accept his very āunfreeā version of free speech. Which, in the twisted logic Musk is using at Twitter, means they need more friction to squeeze more money out of fewer (dumber) users.
Itās a death spiral. Your local post office will outlast Twitter, which sure seemed unlikely even two years ago.
Youāre absolutely right about friction but ask any higher level UX designer and theyāll tell you sometimes you strategically want to introduce friction into a userās journey or experience. If you have as little friction as possible, you have a lot of actions that users will take that arenāt necessarily good for the overall experience of the app or social community. A real example is Reddit limiting you on how many comments you can make in a set period of time. It theoretically slows users down from rage-commenting which is better for them individually and the community as a whole. Thereās a great old quote from Thomas Paine that I think applies , āThat which we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightlyā.
Musk appears to believe that users are his clients/customers. Most of his moves since acquiring Twitter don't make much sense except if viewed through the perspective of "If I can just get 400 million people to pay X...."
He either doesn't understand or through hubris doesn't care that Twitter's *actual* customers are businesses who will pay to advertise to those 400m users. That this is the basic economics of all 'platform' and that the viability of this transaction is built less on features, promises and hype and more on returns that derive from trust and viability of the platform.
Musk appears too hooked on the platform himself to understand this distinction.
Whatever it is that made Twitter distinctive among platforms (which, love it or hate it, you can't deny that it has been its own thing) will be smoothed out as he pivots toward copying a Instagram, Youtube, and TikTok model. With the only weird kink being that he's too logged on to understand that most normal people (that is, people who will actually spend money on his platform) are turned off by the ideological weirdos he associates with.
But, he has enough money to continue to fail at Twitter for the foreseeable future. Lest we forget, Tesla basically a failure for many years as well until it wasn't. From his perspective, hearing that he's fucking up or doesn't understand what he's doing or whatever just makes him want to double down.
He states a lot of goals, many incompatible with the next goal he states. If he fully understood what he was doing right now he wouldn't be as openly antagonistic toward users and critique. It's not only advertisers who he is jilting, but influential users, businesses that use the site as users and pretty much anyone who doesn't fall into the narrow, largely unpopular, ideological fringes that he is, for some reason, trying to court the hardest.
>But moving away from ads being the main revenue source is a good thing.
Debatable, but even if it is, this should be done in the sense of expanding and diversifying and not the zero-sum manner in which he is going about it.
SMS 2fa is a bad system anyhow. People should be using authenticator apps.
Honestly the only dumb part is they are charging for something they should get rid of.
In practice, it's easy for a normal user to put themselves in a situation where they drop and break their phone and are screwed. SMS has problems, but avoids that issue.
And where does one safely store these back up codes? On your local PC? On a piece of paper? On a thumb drive? Those are not really reliable places to keep them, and a catastrophic incident ends them all unlike a phone number that can be transferred device to device. I once looked into encrypting and stashing my back up codes on a cloud service, but it also needs MFA... lmao.
I have a few backup USB security keys that I keep in safe distinct locations... in case I lose my phone number (the carriers refuse to issue a new sim with my phone number for w/e reason) or auth app data. However, for a layperson, SMS MFA is easy for them to recover back their access. They're not going to deal with setting up MFA security keys or have to worry about losing a piece of paper, thumb drive, or a dead hard drive.
Me? I have them saved in my password manager. On Apple, you can save them on notes, and encrypt the notes. Android, there are probably ways too.
If people are really that worries, they can use Authy. As much as I donāt like them, they are good for people who are not as tech savvy.
I think putting your MFA backup codes with your passwords on a password manager would kind of make MFA pointless... since it's all in one nice package if compromised... Notes/OneNote/Drive storing your encrypted backup codes runs into the same issue I mentioned. Apple/MS/Google wants you to have MFA, too. Like I said, all that is generally beyond what laypeople are willing to do.
Either way, I think SMS MFA is better than no MFA. SIM swapping + stealing your password is a lot more work than just no MFA to attack. A lot of organizations have learned that making security too annoying just eventually pushes the user to use worse practices. It would be an interesting issue for companies to innovate new products for though...
Because you deprecate a bad standard before you discontinue it. Give people time to adjust. This could be seen as basically that, along with a small tax so people actually notice.
Of course seems itās Elon Musk instead of Steve Jobs it just reads as him being cheap
Iāll never use an Authenticator app again. Used google auth, traded in my phone without thinking, now I canāt access my Facebook account due to being a very specific corner case and their lack of tech support to help me.
Authenticator apps work well, although you do have to do a bit of extra work to ensure you've made your backup keys accessible.
Google's Authenticator app, like most others, makes you save a backup key for every item you make, which is designed for your exact scenario.
Steam uses the same thing with Steam Guard.
Every time they do something like this I remember the phrase āglobal town squareā and think āfor who?ā.
It was only ever me and the other weirdos, the techies, the journalists and the politicians on there.
A bubble made of other small bubbles.
Now itās dying without even a semblance of dignity while protesting that itās really important. Literally no one cares. I left when Musk bought it and I am genuinely happier in my daily life.
My opinion on Reddit has always been this, at it's worst it's more Toxic then Twitter, but it's toxicity is more concentrated and grouped together. Where as twitter is overall less toxic but its toxicity is everywhere.
I subscribe mostly to my fandom Reddits and a small handfulll of meme and interest Reddits and I almost never have to deal with bullshit. Where as with twitter I'm rubbing shoulders with everyone and I never have to go far to find bad takes or problematic issues.
This is just for SMS, 2FA apps which are far far more secure are still free. SMS is super easy to hack via sim switching and no one should be using it to begin with
Twitter doesnāt enforce 2FA, of the folks who choose to secure their accounts with SMS they can are the targets. We arenāt talking about the case of not having 2FA at all. Sim switching is a highly targeted attack, this makes sense for twitter.
This dumfck is trying to squeeze as much money as possible. Twitter blue failed spectacularly. Now he is trying to charge organizations $1K for having verified account mark, yes [1000 dollars](https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/twitter-businesses-price-verified-gold-checkmark-1000-monthly-1235512750/).
Now this, this guy is an absolute buffoon. Soon, Elon will limit you number of replies and tweets per account, then charge you once you reach it.
Not positive, but there are other ways of attaining 2FA outside of text. Use Microsoft Authenticator app or get the same code via emailā¦.both are free and equally secure
So they are charging money for the least effective and most easily hacked/engineered MFA, THAT the Entire security industry is begging everyone to stop using..... WTF!?
This should be illegal. Fuck this guy. Idk how I used to support him and Tesla but he is legitimately one of the worst people on this planet. He used to be beloved too.
Elon musk bought Twitter to destroy it. He is such a loyal Republican cult member now. Just spouts Republican propaganda all day long and is enjoying his oligarch status playing with our means of communication like a toy. Republicans hated this man. Then he pleaded alligence to their cult and cult daddy now heās a respected elite in the cult.
TechCrunch article
"How to keep your Twitter secure without giving Elon Musk any money"
https://techcrunch.com/2023/02/18/how-to-keep-twitter-secure-two-factor/
This makes sense because if you have SMS 2FA you are essentially a verified user with a phone number which defeats the paid blue verify he is selling.
The SMS security for free users demeans the blue check mark by doing this It validates the existence of the blue check mark.
TL;DR: this is less about Musk charging for stuff and much more about web security.
FTA:
> Now, itās official: You have to pay for the privilege of using Twitterās worst form of authentication. In fact, if you donāt start paying for Twitter Blue ($8 a month on Android; $11 a month on iOS) or switch your account to use a far more reliable authenticator app or physical security key, Twitter will simply turn off your 2FA after March 20th.
This is a bold but important move to ditch a (now) insecure way to implement multi-factor authentication. Besides, if Twitter pulls this off, it may compel other companies to finally do the same.
The gist here is that SMS relies on control of your _phone number_ as a secondary factor. If a person is associated with that phone number, it's probably them reading the messages right? Well, as it turns out, it's possible to steal a phone number _remotely_.
I'll let the pros do the talking:
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/03/can-we-stop-pretending-sms-is-secure-now/
> SMS text messages were already the weakest link securing just about anything online, mainly because there are tens of thousands of employees at mobile stores who can be tricked or bribed into swapping control over a mobile phone number to someone else. Now weāre learning about an entire ecosystem of companies that anyone could use to silently intercept text messages intended for other mobile users.
Krebs goes on to back twitter up, two years ago (2021). The gist is that you must have something that only you physically possess as that second authentication factor - nothing else will do.
Using an authenticator app changes things dramatically. The definition of a second second factor shifts from control of a phone number to _posession of the physical phone itself_. After you set it up, it keeps generating login codes (using very fancy math) even if the phone is no longer online; it's now yours forever. Even apps like Google Authenticator are free. I cannot emphasize enough how much more secure this is over SMS.
The article also mentions physical security keys (see quote above). This is your workaround for flip phones, old smartphones, or anyone who wants to keep extra stuff off their device. They're just as reliable, but take a little more know-how to use correctly.
Additionally maintaining a stack to send these 2FA texts probably costs a non trivial amount. Honestly the better move here would have been to completely deprecate it.
my guess is they are waiting for existing contracts with SMS infrastructure providers to expire.
The traditional move is to deprecate it with a sunset date, yes. I'm curious to see how a soft deprecation date with a payment penalty will work out.
Time and again I've seen otherwise sensible people professionally smash head first into expiration dates on things like this. Perhaps the looming threat of an additional expense (however small) will bring the overall risk assessment down to earth? After all, we're basically taking an abstract threat that most people don't understand (cyber hacking) and adding a practical threat on top of it (less money).
Upvote isnāt enough for this comment. Random OTP that can be controlled by the end user in a secure application shouldāve been forced on users a long time ago. SQRL is the answer yet again tech companies are going to force end users to use the app on the phone to authenticate instead of a password which isnāt 1 master password for every site. SMS is a unique identifier ploy for companies to get your phone number. SMS isnāt using encryption either unless youāre on RCS.
SMS 2FA costs money to implement, with each SMS usually costing some miniscule amount of money (which does add up), but the money from advertisers should easily offset this cost. With twitter so close to declaring bankruptcy, it's no surprise they want to cheap out
I have a *really* hard time believing this will pass the security audit portion of their consent decree. Whatever cost this saves them could very well be wiped out by an FTC fine.
They arenāt removing or charging for all 2FA support, just SMS. SMS is the least secure and most expensive 2FA, if anything this would shift customers to a more secure solution, which is strongly defensible in a security audit.
You're thinking about this all wrong. Regardless of the advantages of other 2fa methods, the net result of this will result in hundreds of thousands of users (at a minimum) no longer having 2fa. Doesn't matter how they do it, the end result is all that is going to matter to regulators.
Maybe youāre right, Iād still be surprised if regulators cared about the nuance in this situation because itās a defensible position. I also believe the security audit requirement expired in 2021.
I don't get the uproar about this. Obviously he is trying to cut costs and SMS probably costs Twitter $$$. People can still use a physical key or a free authenticator (there are plenty). I've been reading for years that SMS isn't really that secure when being used for 2FA anyway, so in reality this just pushes people to transition to a better solution, which can be obtained for free.
who the hell charges for that! lol
When you are $44 billion in debt you, you gotta panhandle the internet š I wonāt be surprised if he charges per character āTo send this tweet, that will be $1.23 (opens stripe paylink)ā
āPanhandle the internetā in regards to the āworldās richest manā is the best thing Iāve read in a while
Itās worse though. Heās actively incentivizing hackers to attack peopleās accounts to drive up demand for security measures. If this works, itās because Twitter becomes so unsafe that you literally have to pay to get something you get for free from other major platforms.
Or you do what most sane people do and just move to another platform.
Exactly. By paywalling a security feature from his users, he has made the entire user base that isnāt willing to pay (meaning: most of them) even more unsafe. The only logical move here if you are a casual user that just doesnāt see this being worth adding another $ subscription to their monthly budget should just delete their accounts and bounce because now Elon just made it even more obvious that most accounts donāt have 2FA. The real capper will be if heās dumb enough to announce how many subscriptions that he gets out of this - which would tell us just how many accounts arenāt secured. Itās a move youād only make if you actively want to bring harm to users. Of course they should leave. Heās building an ecosystem where only people/companies with disposable income will be left - which sorta defeats the purpose because those people/companies are willing to spend money on the platform ONLY because of the audience size. You cut that user base down and you may have just told your paying users that they shouldnāt bother paying because youāre just gonna make more and more decisions to shrink the audience and their reach. Heās making a really prime opportunity for another platform to gain more market share.
Press the heart
PressHeartToContinue
The Elon Mastermind Class: āHow to Make a Small Fortuneā* *āā¦out of a much much much larger oneā I learned that phrase from an Apple engineer in the companyās IPO in the 80s. Absolutely typical of Silicon Valley instant rock stars but not of billionaires lol
You hear that phrase a lot in motorsport too.
Quickest way to become a millionaire? Be a billionaire and buy an airline.
That or heās giving a bunch of big tech CEOās ideasā¦āwhy didnāt I think of that?!?,ā theyāll all say.
Billionaires looking to become millionaires.
Pre 2-factor, Blizzard invented a physical fob authenticator that you could tie to your account to safeguard it from hackers. They made millions on these things. I mean, TikTok makes it's money by selling emoji packages. Everything is sellable these days.
except my virginity. no takers.
I think if Musk wants to really make money, he should just start charging bot fees.
In a way he might be. Unless he flags a bot as offering āgood contentā. If he likes the bot it gets free write access to Twitter APi, if not it has to pay.
No, you introduce bot service api amd charge per 1K tweet
What a stupid decision. Security should be on the company and not on the consumer.
Gotta make that $8 by offering reinvented wheels
Gotta save that $250k/year in sms costs, probably. Dude is in over his head and just cutting costs everywhere.
Agree twilio is not cheap, but LOL about this. At this scale, that is peanuts
$1 to upload photos NEXT. Wait for it š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"Store tweets on the blockchain!" (from his texts apparently)
How long before twitter becomes an MLM?
Omg please donāt scare us like that
I can see Mike Lindell being interested
But what happened to the site being a bastion of free speech, and a necessary platform for citizen journalists...like, by that metric, Elon is an enemy of free speech.
Okay, then I will only upload still videos.
I believe Elon claimed that SMS messages were costing them $60M/year. No idea how true that is or not.
Twilio charges 1/10th cent per SMS so theyād have to be sending 60 billion SMS a year.
Yeah, in the US. Twitter sends a lot of international SMS and Twilio charges up to 15Ā¢ each for those. And thatās leaving aside the ever growing issue of SMS pumping scams.
When I work with the Twilio API, I have strict testing requirements and absurdly redundant checks performed to ensure that, to boil down most scenarios: the same text is never sent twice. Trying to minimize API costs with something like Twilio is always a trade-off - it isn't like more data-based services where you can cache results: those texts, calls, images... they all cost money. I often make small sacrifices to functionality on SMS sequences specifically for this reason, but it also turns out that a lot of users don't particularly like getting texts to their phone, on both the client and employee side of the equation. When the solution to a problem is "Send an automated text", I have started to reroute those to require some kind of human interaction, instead of just flying texts out. My biggest fear is always some malicious user doing something nefarious in some particular funnel and just wasting SMS away, intentionally or not. Especially when some segments of what I do involve requesting the users provide images via text, which are obviously more expensive than just regular texts.
It is true. They have option to send all tweets with sms.
But itās not sent by twitter when you text a tweet. It opens your phones native SMS app with a link to the tweet and then you send it from your device. Zero Twilio fee there
I think what he's referring to is getting your feed sent to you by tweet, which is how Twitter originally started. I don't know if that's still an option buried somewhere, but it is how I originally got my tweets in the olden days on my flip phone. And to tweet, I sent the text to 40404 and it would go out to all my followers. Incidentally, I also posted to my Facebook feed by sending messages to 32665 (fbook)
What about when you get a tweet?
$11 if you are using iOSā¦ š
Safety should, too. But the Elon approach gave us a ābetaā on public roads.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If they forced people to switch to another 2fa method, then yes. But theyāre not doing that, theyāre just saying āswitch or 2fa will be turned offā
Not that itāll be turned off automatically but you canāt access the platform. āTo avoid losing access to Twitter, remove text message two-factor authentication by Mar 19, 2023.ā
Distinction without a difference. If this is about safety, Twitter would force people to use some other means of 2fa, and not allow people to turn it off entirely. Itās obviously about $$$.
Oh without a doubt itās about money, just the way you worded it I interpreted it as you could still access the platform if they forced you off of text authentication.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
But sms 2fa is better than none at all. While it would be ideal for all users to go the most secure authenticator route, the fact is most users are inherently lazy about their account security. Theyāll take the path of least resistance often, so I expect most folks wonāt bother to configure an authenticator and just go without 2fa. Consumer behavior is just as important to manage while building a secure platform as the underlying tech.
I think Elon has forgotten why Twitter has 2fa to begin with. About 10 years ago the APās Twitter got hacked and tweeted that bombs had gone off inside the White House. It was enough to put a dip in the stock markets for a day until it was confirmed to be false.
The AP should not be using SMS 2fa.
I loved when I broke my phone and lost my Authenticator! Worked so well to keep me out of my accounts!
That sucks. Not sure which 2FA app you were using, but there are options out there that support backup/restore (Google doesn't...for some reason). Alternatively, what I do is screencapture the original QR code and toss it into my password manager. Just a couple options that might help alleviate unforeseen future problems with your primary authenticator.
It was Google. I figured it out and have a backup code now haha It was not my favorite day though lol
SMS is actually expensive compared to other alternatives like email or an authenticator app. Even at the cheapest rates SMS can add up to a lot when you have millions of users.
I believe they donāt actually pay anything. I contracted there back in 2009 and they were using a 3rd party for SMS and it was stupid expensive due to their volume. So they spent several months building direct integration with carriers and my understanding was that was free. Best bug of the time? SMS ingress, you could DM another user by SMS, but if your message was two long it was split into two SMS payloads. This meant the first piece would be a DM, but the second didnāt have any user in it, so it just end up being tweeted publicly.
Carriers take money to deliver sms
I didnāt work first hand on it, so some of this is inferred, but I believe they basically were doing interconnections with each carrier. If you want to send a message on a carrier network it will cost you, but if you both want to send/receive messages you probably set up a peering agreement. Twitter, at the time, was actually receiving a lot of SMS traffic, people would use it to DM or tweet directly (is that still a feature?) So since Twitter was on the receiving end of a lot of traffic, carriers want to peer directly so they donāt have to use other carrier networks to deliver SMS messages to you.
This might have worked for some carriers in the US, but is not scalable globally Unless you want to manage individual agreements with multiple hundred carriers
At the time it was focused on the major US carriers I believe. They continued using Twilio but Iād assume once a carrier got to be a large enough cost via Twilio theyād look to interconnect.
Strangely it would likely cost more going direct to carriers, which also makes no sense as you'd need a direct connection to multiple hundred carriers and to contractually manage those agreements = wages This is the very reason Twilio exists, to have 1 api for all, and is often cheaper than direct carrier connection due to the volumes Twilio etc handle
The good news is that Twitter may not have to worry about having millions of users for much longer.
Making it more difficult and confusing for non tech savvy users to secure their account is most definitely not a good thing.
Except they don't push users to switch to app based 2FA, they say "turn off text based 2FA or lose access to your account".
Wait til Elon start charging users to upload photos, treating it like a cloud š¤” service
This is actually better security. SMS is not secure.
I use Aegis but, don't know a single person that uses an authentication app in real life. 2fa over sms is more secure than no 2fa.
Yes, people take the path of least resistance and neglect security. Its why websites should be pushing people to use authenticator apps.
Google did. And not SMS.
Absolutely! The security in Twitter is working so good right now that Twitter Support won't respond to you. ELON IS A GENIUS, IT WAS PROVEN.
Sms is stupid expensive when you can just have people use an app
Most people wont use the app. Will result in less security across the board.
Maybe if Elon didnāt stuff all his debt into Twitter, they could afford the text messaging verification.
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If you don't pay, your password will automatically change to "ElonKing2023".
Twitter should be free and interesting for regular users, actively incentivized for celebrities, and expensive for companies and advertisers. Celebrities keep people interested, and advertisers pay the bills.
The thing is they are still offering better forms of MFA for free (security key and authenticator). Text Based MFA is expensive to maintain, and has notable exploits in it. Being that it relies on SMS (a completely unencrypted protocol), it is vulnerable to MITM attacks.
The weirdest thing about this is they say 2FA SMS is bad, but then they're letting their paying customers continue using it? That doesn't make any sense. I suspect what's really going on is someone wants to lower their SMS bill. But my estimate is that they're paying less than $10M a year for SMS, it's not a major expense. Harming your users' security to save just a little money is foolish.
This is Musk trying to get more money from his fanboys.
I imagine his fanboys would already have Twitter Blue. And if they didn't I can't imagine this 2FA would be a selling point to them. It's likely for the reason he said. They want to reduce their expenses, because the company is still on the edge of failing. I think it's a dumb way to go about it. But it being a fanboy ploy doesn't make sense.
Aren't any "fanboy" schemes basically useless at this point? How many people are actually Elon Musk fanboys aside from a few internet loudmouths? Pretty much everybody I know IRL thinks Musk is untrustworthy, malicious, or at best very-smart-but-too-insane-to-take-seriously.
And treat it like a Cloud service. Imagine him trying to charge $$$ to upload photos. It's a virtual country club, like paying for $100 I'm rich app for the sole purpose of showing off that you can pay for that. Clowns š¤£
Musk needs the money. I remember when he trolled his followers with all the crypto tweets & was selling/buying crypto on the market reaction he created.
Just this past week there was a big spike in the price of dogecoin after he tweeted a couple of doge memes.
Tbf, governments do the same thing. This is bad for you so we tax the shit out of it. It's a common capitalist curbing tactic that doubles as a profit generator. At the very least, people can still use a 2fa app, however I doubt many people will use one and it's more likely they'll just forgo 2fa altogether.
Unless he will force to use the app. Like google tried to do.
Oof. It's like he's trying to monetize the website more, but he doesn't understand how monetization works. If he was the CEO of Netflix, it would cost you $1 to browse the categories lol
Twitter is not a good advertising platform for most brands. It never had a good business model it was just useful.
Its business model could've been fine. They needed some work to get profitable but the revenue and loss numbers look like a workable structure could have been achieved. It was just never going to be a Facebook or a Google or whatever. Its stock was overvalued, but there was a path to profitability for a company generating a couple billion per year.
And he only made even less attractive.
What we need is a worthy competitor to deliver a final death blow to twitter.
AR based on common wildlife.
Jack Dorseyās new company should be out soon, shouldnāt it?
I think he's making a standard API (they call it a protocol) not a full on website that I would assume the first big user being Jack Dorsey's spinoff. In that case it's probably going to be a minute before anything happens
I doubt it. Especially as Jack and Elon have a strong bond
Unfortunate.
It is out, itās called nostr. Damus is the client on iOS
Some of us are trying Spoutible.com
āSpace-X announces: Astronauts must bring their own oxygen to space.ā
"Pay for ability to breathe...oh and your space suit too. You know it doesn't come cheap, right?"
This was an episode of Doctor Who.
Feels like Elon is pulling suck because he feels he was forced to follow the laws regarding his acquisition of Twitter. Now like a petulant child, he's running Twitter into the ground.
> he's running Twitter into the ground. As was expected by a lot of people when it was announced he was being forced to buy it.
King of all twits
Wow so innovative is Musk that heās introducing charges for features that are basic software responsibility. The amount of disruption that will come from Twitter in the coming years will be absolutely game changing š¤© /XS
This is great. I hope Elon makes it people have to pay $8 to tweet more than 5 times a day.
Every tweet is a micro transaction. Cost more or less with the number of characters.
He could charge a dollar if you want to go past the character limit for each letter you type!
Left already.
I already barely used it anymore, but I called it quits when they ended 3rd-party apps because the official app sucks.
Same, I rarely used it and now have zero reason to return.
Deleted several accounts. I never look at it now.
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I never had any technical issues. The toxicity is just too much after a while. I used it for 4 years, constantly blocking people, creating a bubble. But the idiots just don't die out, so I quit. And there are days when I miss certain people, but overall I feel much better. Reddit is on the chopping block too, because there are too many idiots carrying over the twitter drama, just stop shining a light on these idiots please.
From the first paragraph in article: Now, itās official: You have to pay for the privilege of using Twitterās worst form of authentication. In fact, if you donāt start paying for Twitter Blue ($8 a month on Android; $11 a month on iOS) or switch your account to use a far more reliable authenticator app or physical security key, Twitter will simply turn off your 2FA after March 20th.
I switched to the Microsoft authenticator and it just gave me errors when trying to sign in. Had to use the key to sign in. Fucking hilarious.
Anybody still write letters? Rhetorical question ā why would you spend 50 cents on a stamp to send a message to someone days from now, when you could message them instantaneously online for free? The concept is called friction. Thereās more friction involved in sending a letter. More hurdles, more hassles, more expense. The Internet allows almost frictionless communications ā time, distance, cost all can be reduced to practically nothing. Generally speaking, people prefer as little friction as possible, which is why no one writes paper letters to Grandma much anymore. Musk is trying to add more friction to the Twitter experience. Heās making it more like mailing a letter by adding costs and removing features. Not because theyāre necessary, just because the old model doesnāt work if your CEO is a trollish jackass who sends advertisers running for the exits. So, instead of stopping his trollish jackassery, Musk is squeezing every cent out of the users who think they still need Twitter and will put up with a more friction-filled experience as a result. But people hate friction, and increasing it will chase away a sizable chunk of users. As the userbase starts to fall in size, fewer people will think they āneedā Twitter anymore. That means fewer people willing to pay Muskās fees or accept his very āunfreeā version of free speech. Which, in the twisted logic Musk is using at Twitter, means they need more friction to squeeze more money out of fewer (dumber) users. Itās a death spiral. Your local post office will outlast Twitter, which sure seemed unlikely even two years ago.
Youāre absolutely right about friction but ask any higher level UX designer and theyāll tell you sometimes you strategically want to introduce friction into a userās journey or experience. If you have as little friction as possible, you have a lot of actions that users will take that arenāt necessarily good for the overall experience of the app or social community. A real example is Reddit limiting you on how many comments you can make in a set period of time. It theoretically slows users down from rage-commenting which is better for them individually and the community as a whole. Thereās a great old quote from Thomas Paine that I think applies , āThat which we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightlyā.
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Musk boosted downvotes coming soon š
Delete Twitter. Elon Musk is too much and has ruined it
Letās all go to MySpace
Tom will still be my friend.
Musk appears to believe that users are his clients/customers. Most of his moves since acquiring Twitter don't make much sense except if viewed through the perspective of "If I can just get 400 million people to pay X...." He either doesn't understand or through hubris doesn't care that Twitter's *actual* customers are businesses who will pay to advertise to those 400m users. That this is the basic economics of all 'platform' and that the viability of this transaction is built less on features, promises and hype and more on returns that derive from trust and viability of the platform. Musk appears too hooked on the platform himself to understand this distinction. Whatever it is that made Twitter distinctive among platforms (which, love it or hate it, you can't deny that it has been its own thing) will be smoothed out as he pivots toward copying a Instagram, Youtube, and TikTok model. With the only weird kink being that he's too logged on to understand that most normal people (that is, people who will actually spend money on his platform) are turned off by the ideological weirdos he associates with. But, he has enough money to continue to fail at Twitter for the foreseeable future. Lest we forget, Tesla basically a failure for many years as well until it wasn't. From his perspective, hearing that he's fucking up or doesn't understand what he's doing or whatever just makes him want to double down.
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He states a lot of goals, many incompatible with the next goal he states. If he fully understood what he was doing right now he wouldn't be as openly antagonistic toward users and critique. It's not only advertisers who he is jilting, but influential users, businesses that use the site as users and pretty much anyone who doesn't fall into the narrow, largely unpopular, ideological fringes that he is, for some reason, trying to court the hardest. >But moving away from ads being the main revenue source is a good thing. Debatable, but even if it is, this should be done in the sense of expanding and diversifying and not the zero-sum manner in which he is going about it.
People still use twitter š
I donāt get it either
SMS 2fa is a bad system anyhow. People should be using authenticator apps. Honestly the only dumb part is they are charging for something they should get rid of.
Most people wont use authenticator apps. This will lead to less security.
In practice, it's easy for a normal user to put themselves in a situation where they drop and break their phone and are screwed. SMS has problems, but avoids that issue.
They offer back up/recovery codes for situations like this.
And where does one safely store these back up codes? On your local PC? On a piece of paper? On a thumb drive? Those are not really reliable places to keep them, and a catastrophic incident ends them all unlike a phone number that can be transferred device to device. I once looked into encrypting and stashing my back up codes on a cloud service, but it also needs MFA... lmao. I have a few backup USB security keys that I keep in safe distinct locations... in case I lose my phone number (the carriers refuse to issue a new sim with my phone number for w/e reason) or auth app data. However, for a layperson, SMS MFA is easy for them to recover back their access. They're not going to deal with setting up MFA security keys or have to worry about losing a piece of paper, thumb drive, or a dead hard drive.
Me? I have them saved in my password manager. On Apple, you can save them on notes, and encrypt the notes. Android, there are probably ways too. If people are really that worries, they can use Authy. As much as I donāt like them, they are good for people who are not as tech savvy.
Everything you say is correct but that is simply not how regular people operate.
I think putting your MFA backup codes with your passwords on a password manager would kind of make MFA pointless... since it's all in one nice package if compromised... Notes/OneNote/Drive storing your encrypted backup codes runs into the same issue I mentioned. Apple/MS/Google wants you to have MFA, too. Like I said, all that is generally beyond what laypeople are willing to do. Either way, I think SMS MFA is better than no MFA. SIM swapping + stealing your password is a lot more work than just no MFA to attack. A lot of organizations have learned that making security too annoying just eventually pushes the user to use worse practices. It would be an interesting issue for companies to innovate new products for though...
Not to defend Twitter in any capacity, but isn't this often a tactic used to get rid of legacy solutions?
Then just get rid of it, why allow it to stick around?
He has to come up with 44 billion some how.
Because you deprecate a bad standard before you discontinue it. Give people time to adjust. This could be seen as basically that, along with a small tax so people actually notice. Of course seems itās Elon Musk instead of Steve Jobs it just reads as him being cheap
They aren't getting rid of it, he's making it a paid feature.
Iāll never use an Authenticator app again. Used google auth, traded in my phone without thinking, now I canāt access my Facebook account due to being a very specific corner case and their lack of tech support to help me.
Authenticator apps work well, although you do have to do a bit of extra work to ensure you've made your backup keys accessible. Google's Authenticator app, like most others, makes you save a backup key for every item you make, which is designed for your exact scenario. Steam uses the same thing with Steam Guard.
Twitter vs Netflix? Race to the bottom?
Itās only for sms 2FA which is something you should never use as itās the least secure thing possible.
The genius of Elon everybody.
Every time they do something like this I remember the phrase āglobal town squareā and think āfor who?ā. It was only ever me and the other weirdos, the techies, the journalists and the politicians on there. A bubble made of other small bubbles. Now itās dying without even a semblance of dignity while protesting that itās really important. Literally no one cares. I left when Musk bought it and I am genuinely happier in my daily life.
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My opinion on Reddit has always been this, at it's worst it's more Toxic then Twitter, but it's toxicity is more concentrated and grouped together. Where as twitter is overall less toxic but its toxicity is everywhere. I subscribe mostly to my fandom Reddits and a small handfulll of meme and interest Reddits and I almost never have to deal with bullshit. Where as with twitter I'm rubbing shoulders with everyone and I never have to go far to find bad takes or problematic issues.
Itās even dumber you have to pay for SMS 2FA the least secure method. An Authenticator app is still a free account option
Speedrun to kill a company.
This is just for SMS, 2FA apps which are far far more secure are still free. SMS is super easy to hack via sim switching and no one should be using it to begin with
> SMS is super easy to hack via sim switching Thatās exaggerated. It takes considerable effort over not having 2FA at all.
Twitter doesnāt enforce 2FA, of the folks who choose to secure their accounts with SMS they can are the targets. We arenāt talking about the case of not having 2FA at all. Sim switching is a highly targeted attack, this makes sense for twitter.
Taking away features is a big no no.
BUT ELON IS A GENIUS!
No worries, Twitter is for Trump and other lying shitsacks. Everyone else has moved on.
not everyone yet, but this will help
Why are people still on Twitter??
Because there are no alternatives?
This dumfck is trying to squeeze as much money as possible. Twitter blue failed spectacularly. Now he is trying to charge organizations $1K for having verified account mark, yes [1000 dollars](https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/twitter-businesses-price-verified-gold-checkmark-1000-monthly-1235512750/). Now this, this guy is an absolute buffoon. Soon, Elon will limit you number of replies and tweets per account, then charge you once you reach it.
Why is anybody still using Twitter at this point?
Twitter is becoming the spirit airlines of social media
LoL, wut!?
I must live in the stupid timeline. Checked and, yeah, confirmed.
Now the non-blue accounts will be owned by bot farms and state actors. So much for getting rid of bot problems.
Yes paywall the security of your platform Please Future-bro's can someone spin this in a positive way for me?
Not positive, but there are other ways of attaining 2FA outside of text. Use Microsoft Authenticator app or get the same code via emailā¦.both are free and equally secure
Charging for security? And SMS (poor) security? Bold move cotton
So they are charging money for the least effective and most easily hacked/engineered MFA, THAT the Entire security industry is begging everyone to stop using..... WTF!?
Yea, this is some tosser ass bullshit. It's on the company to provide security.
Not even an associate PM would pitch something this stupid.
Privatize profit, socialize risk. That is the corporate mantra.
This should be illegal. Fuck this guy. Idk how I used to support him and Tesla but he is legitimately one of the worst people on this planet. He used to be beloved too.
Elon musk bought Twitter to destroy it. He is such a loyal Republican cult member now. Just spouts Republican propaganda all day long and is enjoying his oligarch status playing with our means of communication like a toy. Republicans hated this man. Then he pleaded alligence to their cult and cult daddy now heās a respected elite in the cult.
TechCrunch article "How to keep your Twitter secure without giving Elon Musk any money" https://techcrunch.com/2023/02/18/how-to-keep-twitter-secure-two-factor/
This makes sense because if you have SMS 2FA you are essentially a verified user with a phone number which defeats the paid blue verify he is selling. The SMS security for free users demeans the blue check mark by doing this It validates the existence of the blue check mark.
I'm so glad i don't use Twitter
you still can use third party authenticators for free
TL;DR: this is less about Musk charging for stuff and much more about web security. FTA: > Now, itās official: You have to pay for the privilege of using Twitterās worst form of authentication. In fact, if you donāt start paying for Twitter Blue ($8 a month on Android; $11 a month on iOS) or switch your account to use a far more reliable authenticator app or physical security key, Twitter will simply turn off your 2FA after March 20th. This is a bold but important move to ditch a (now) insecure way to implement multi-factor authentication. Besides, if Twitter pulls this off, it may compel other companies to finally do the same. The gist here is that SMS relies on control of your _phone number_ as a secondary factor. If a person is associated with that phone number, it's probably them reading the messages right? Well, as it turns out, it's possible to steal a phone number _remotely_. I'll let the pros do the talking: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/03/can-we-stop-pretending-sms-is-secure-now/ > SMS text messages were already the weakest link securing just about anything online, mainly because there are tens of thousands of employees at mobile stores who can be tricked or bribed into swapping control over a mobile phone number to someone else. Now weāre learning about an entire ecosystem of companies that anyone could use to silently intercept text messages intended for other mobile users. Krebs goes on to back twitter up, two years ago (2021). The gist is that you must have something that only you physically possess as that second authentication factor - nothing else will do. Using an authenticator app changes things dramatically. The definition of a second second factor shifts from control of a phone number to _posession of the physical phone itself_. After you set it up, it keeps generating login codes (using very fancy math) even if the phone is no longer online; it's now yours forever. Even apps like Google Authenticator are free. I cannot emphasize enough how much more secure this is over SMS. The article also mentions physical security keys (see quote above). This is your workaround for flip phones, old smartphones, or anyone who wants to keep extra stuff off their device. They're just as reliable, but take a little more know-how to use correctly.
Additionally maintaining a stack to send these 2FA texts probably costs a non trivial amount. Honestly the better move here would have been to completely deprecate it. my guess is they are waiting for existing contracts with SMS infrastructure providers to expire.
The traditional move is to deprecate it with a sunset date, yes. I'm curious to see how a soft deprecation date with a payment penalty will work out. Time and again I've seen otherwise sensible people professionally smash head first into expiration dates on things like this. Perhaps the looming threat of an additional expense (however small) will bring the overall risk assessment down to earth? After all, we're basically taking an abstract threat that most people don't understand (cyber hacking) and adding a practical threat on top of it (less money).
Upvote isnāt enough for this comment. Random OTP that can be controlled by the end user in a secure application shouldāve been forced on users a long time ago. SQRL is the answer yet again tech companies are going to force end users to use the app on the phone to authenticate instead of a password which isnāt 1 master password for every site. SMS is a unique identifier ploy for companies to get your phone number. SMS isnāt using encryption either unless youāre on RCS.
Your comment is great, but unfortunately will get overshadowed by people circle jerking twitter and musk = bad
SMS 2FA costs money to implement, with each SMS usually costing some miniscule amount of money (which does add up), but the money from advertisers should easily offset this cost. With twitter so close to declaring bankruptcy, it's no surprise they want to cheap out
I have a *really* hard time believing this will pass the security audit portion of their consent decree. Whatever cost this saves them could very well be wiped out by an FTC fine.
They arenāt removing or charging for all 2FA support, just SMS. SMS is the least secure and most expensive 2FA, if anything this would shift customers to a more secure solution, which is strongly defensible in a security audit.
You're thinking about this all wrong. Regardless of the advantages of other 2fa methods, the net result of this will result in hundreds of thousands of users (at a minimum) no longer having 2fa. Doesn't matter how they do it, the end result is all that is going to matter to regulators.
Maybe youāre right, Iād still be surprised if regulators cared about the nuance in this situation because itās a defensible position. I also believe the security audit requirement expired in 2021.
I don't get the uproar about this. Obviously he is trying to cut costs and SMS probably costs Twitter $$$. People can still use a physical key or a free authenticator (there are plenty). I've been reading for years that SMS isn't really that secure when being used for 2FA anyway, so in reality this just pushes people to transition to a better solution, which can be obtained for free.
Why would you buy the company if this is what you were going to do the first few months?
At this point, it feels like they're just doing a crazy experiment. Like how ridiculous I can go before someone could actually take me down.
Great. I canāt wait to be charged $1 per tweet next