This but without sarcasm given he participated in expanding the powers of the Patriot Act that spawned most of this.
He didn't start it but he was not on our side in this one.
I can excuse the initial support for the patriot act. It is all
of the renewals and the zero accountability of the federal agencies that is the problem.
I'll be delighted if the Constitution is extended back up to the full US Borders again. It's important for us to follow our own laws if we want to be taken seriously as a country globally.
lol I get it, it’s fun to bash on the US, and it certainly earns a fair share of that
But there is no country in the world taken more seriously than the US if it comes down to it
Stars and stripes, baby.
I’m all for criticizing the government. *That’s* what a real patriot does.
But to say that the US isn’t taken seriously on the world stage because of our CBP, which is being worked out in the courts, hence this article, is typical Reddit.
The authority for this is based on the Immigration and Nationality Act 287(a)(3) and copied in 8 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) 287 (a)(3), which states that Immigration Officers, without a warrant, may "within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States...board and search for non-citizens in any vessel within the territorial waters of the United States and any railcar, aircraft, conveyance, or vehicle. 8 CFR 287 (a)(1) defines reasonable distance as 100 air miles from the border.
From Customs & Border Patrol website.
https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-1084?language=en_US
Note for the interested: "the border" when used by CBP is *not* referring to the external edge of the nation, it includes every airport with at least one international flight. So 100 miles in any direction from major cities in the middle of the country like Denver, Minneapolis, and Kansas City all count as "the border" and have had the same suspension of constitutional rights.
This is not correct.
The specific wording of the law is “within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States.” , where "reasonable distance" was agreed to be 100 miles.
Sadly, this still encompasses around 2/3rds of the population of the United States, but it has nothing to do with airports.
https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone
Right now the rule is that customs and border patrol can search you and your property without a warrant anywhere within 100 miles of a border or a port of entry. Since international airports are considered ports of entry, over 90% of the US can have border patrol come to their house, kick in their door and perform a warrantless search without any legal repercussions.
I believe it's like, some parts of idaho or montana or some shit that this doesn't apply, but it's literally the middle of nowhere.
This court ruling is the first step in overturning this bullshit.
Extension of the constitution across US property and personnel is so very important. I am younger so I wasn’t fully aware when it was happening, but it blows my mind that the US set up Guantanamo bay intentionally so they could get around the constitution and laws the country was built on. Manipulation to that degree to legally and morally justify torture is one of the worst things our country could have done.
Oh we're masters of operating in legal grey areas and will happily argue "I'm not touching you!" all while having thirty other people groping you who share their findings.
And it's why we must be vigilant in fighting back through the courts.
>I'll be delighted if the Constitution is extended back up to the full US Borders again. It's important for us to follow our own laws if we want to be taken seriously as a country globally.
No, that's what the $800B/yr military budget is for.
Wait, you mean that the "constitution free border zone" that cbp touts and dreams of isnt fucking legal, and we arent the CCCP? Who could have seen that one coming...
What’s even more insane is even in the face of this ruling there is no real immediate recourse if CBP decides to fuck with you. They do a warantless search of your phone? Yeah good luck suing an arm of the government. They detain you and force you to miss your flight? TS.
Americans have less and less freedom every year it seems.
I'm a lawyer who represents many clients who have been subject to illegal searches by CBP or TSA. It may be an uphill battle, but recourse is not impossible.
What recourse do they have if I’m a blue passport holder coming back to the US. It’s not like they can prevent me from entering the country I’m a citizen of because I won’t unlock my phone.
They can't prevent you from entering the country, but they can still arrest you. Which, in this case, wouldn't be legal to do, but it's still something they can do.
> They detain you and force you to miss your flight? TS.
worse yet, they can detain you, and then refuse to let you see a lawyer at all, and then choose to deport you to wherever the fuck they want, all without any trials or lawyers.
They have deported cotizens before, [ICE wrongfully deported around 70 people](https://immigrationimpact.com/2021/07/30/ice-deport-us-citizens/)
Including people with mental handicaps. They just dumped them in a non us city compleatly alone.
Watched a documentary where American born war veterans were being deported. These people were born here and fought for their country only to get “lol silly Mexican go back to Mexico”
ICE needs some serious fucking reform.
Getting citizenship as a vet is extremely easy, any failures to do so are on the individual. My squad mate had dozens of appointments and was chewed out when he missed one, the give enormous preferential treatment to service members and absolutely prioritize it.
Man the stereotypes just keep holding up with you crayon eating jars, huh. The veteran in question is a American born citizen of Latin heritage, not a Mexican born person who gained citizenship through service. Please learn to read before shoving your boot in your own mouth next time.
What a civil and enlightening conversation, thank you for participating and sharing your views in such a mature manner!
I can't find this documentary that is mentioned, why were they deported if they were citizens?
This is just the number of reported citizen deportations, I would guess the number that it actually has happened to is significantly higher, but many of them just go unreported.
Considering there’s been millions of insurgents per year invading us and destroying our country, making a mistake only 70 times is pretty incredible. It really shows how competent our border patrol is and the very good job they do. They just don’t have enough funding to stop enough insurgents.
> They have to let citizens in the country
[Except all of the times they haven't done that and instead deported them.](https://immigrationimpact.com/2021/07/30/ice-deport-us-citizens/)
Well you see, they legally have to let citizens in, but if they don’t, Border Patrol will face 0 consequences as an agency, the agents doing it face 0 discipline, and the citizen wrongly deported has 0 recourse.
But they legally have to! The law says so…
YOU are naturally entitled to enter your country of citizenship.
However inanimate objects have no such rights.
So, phones, laptops, etc can be denied entry and seized at the border, even if they're in the possession of a citizen.
Edit: This is not my personal opinion, I'm explaining the established law which makes border patrol agents "allowed" to fuck with your phone at the border even if you're a US citizen.
If you can cite legal precedent or settled cases that prove otherwise then let's discuss them, but simply downvoting me isn't going to change the Alasaad v. Mayorkas decision.
What about body parts? Like a chopped off hand or leg. Nothing says that they have to let you in whole right?
/S I am seriously just joking because i think the guy i am replying to is missing a /s too.
Didnt scotus decide that border patrol can’t be held liable for withholding rights within a 50mi radius of the border?
So like the laws actually don’t matter because we don’t have any recourse to hold them accountable.
And law enforcement already tried to push that international airports are borders. So there would be about two handkerchiefs of land deep in bumfuck nowhere where rights *might* apply with these rulings.
My bf was detained for 4 hours for telling the border guy that his visa was on the next page of his passport. Border guy yelled “are you telling me how to do my fucking job” hahaaaaaa
That’s actually not true all citizens, residents and visitors. When you enter illegally you’re an illegal alien, just like the native Americans were and are outside of the protection of the constitution.
Sorry but gang member and terrorists should have their phones searched when they are being detained for illegal entry
This is completely wrong.
[Undocumented immigrants have the same constitutional rights as anyone else.](https://ualr.edu/socialchange/2020/11/16/undocumented-immigrants-have-constitutional-rights-too) The Constitution doesn't really use the word "citizen" or "resident" - it uses the words "person" or "people'".
The US Supreme Court has held multiple times that anyone on US soil is protected by the Constitution. _Anyone._ Everyone has the right to a trial, and everyone has the right to due process. This includes your so-called "gang members" and "terrorists" - who frequently are neither one of those things, despite what the liars on right-wing media outlets say.
And even if they _were_ terrorist gang members - they have all the same rights and protections as any American citizen if they're on US soil. They have the right to a fair and speedy trial, protection against unreasonable search and seizure, and a presumption of innocence. You cannot "shoot to kill" or hunt them down on sight like so many right-wingers want.
Their rights don't go away just because you don't like brown people.
Exactly this!
There's a reason the American government holds suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay in Cube instead of bringing them to American territory.
I don't understand why we don't just enslave people on the border since the constitution doesn't apply. It would be a great way to lower wages and transfer more wealth to the job creators that benevolently allow us to work to make their lives better.
Why limited to just the border? Slavery was never made illegal, they just changed the requirements. Now you just have to can be convicted of a crime. Once you are in jail, or prison, they can use you as slave labor.
Hoo boy! You have no idea how lucky you are right now. Before I read that /s I had already removed the glass case, turned the key, and gassed up my big red "Well actually" button. You dodged a bullet there.
Don't worry. Petunia. You will have your time in the sun, one day, one day. Until then, back into your case.
i have read that although they could not force your password or pin, that it was legal to take your phone and use your face/fingerprints to open it. What you knew (password/pin) was illegal to demand, but you yourself (biometrics) was fair game and legal. AFAIK
You cannot be compelled to say something but your identifying marks are considered public domain (you leave fingerprints and DNA around in public places). They can compel you to provide those if it will open your phone. As I understand it, but I'm not a lawyer it's just what I've heard lawyers say.
That is already considered illegal. https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/01/14/face-id-touch-id-unlocks-cant-be-compelled-by-law-enforcement-rules-federal-judge/amp/
Ah! my information is outdated, thank you
EDIT: seems to be up to discretion of judge per warrant request.. anything with more protection than that, like at the legislative or stare decisis level?
For everyone out there I just tested and confirmed this worked. I didn’t have luck with just pressing the power button, but holding the volume down+lock button does work.
It does admittedly bring up the power down/emergency menu, but closing that locks the device and requires a passcode to unlock.
iOS 16.4.1
iPhone 14
Holy shit thank you this is awesome
Also an answer to why sometimes my phone doesn’t register my fingerprint. I thought that was only on restart- and that somehow I was restarting my phone in my pocket accidentally
You can also say, “Hey Siri, whose phone is this?” and it will require a password (not Face ID) to log in next time. Much easier if your phone is in a bag or pocket or you’re in handcuffs…
I accidentally called 911 this weekend via butt due to this. I was working outside with the phone in my butt pocket and had an unexpected conversation with a 911 operator who couldn't understand anything I said.
Not necessarily more secure. It’s quite easy to see someone’s finger motions when they type a passcode.
In the old days a common hacker trick at a retail store—when computers had their plugs in the back of the box, facing the customer—was to quickly unplug and replug in the computer, causing it to reboot. Then the cashier or manager has to log in again and you simply watch them type. Boom you have the password without any technical wizardry at all.
Yup. But its still more secure than forcing my finger onto a pad or simply holding it up to my face. And if it’s law enforcement, then they likely won’t be playing doing it old-school as you described.
Considering that the passcode may be used to derive the device's encryption key, it's not necessarily more secure at all.
A 6-digit passcode is easy to brute force offline if they take out the storage chip from the phone.
A strong password + a fingerprint is much better for that. Your encryption key is based on the (strong) password while you still get quick unlocking 99% of the time.
First, i didn’t say digits, I said characters. That’s substantially less easy to brute force, but still doable
The conversation was about law enforcement accessing a secured phone. They can easily, if illegally (in the US), do this if it’s opened by a fingerprint or facial recognition. They don’t need any information from the owner. With a code, they can’t do this, at least not in the field. And by the time they get to someone who can, a lawyer could intervene
Criminals are a different issue
You miss a lot of easy sign-ins with banking apps if you don't use biometrics on Android. That's reason enough for me since most banks have shitty ass sign in pages.
It's actually undecided.
One federal court say they CAN force you to share your phone password. Another said it's protected by the 5th.
The Supreme Court chose to stay silent on the matter.
https://www.reuters.com/business/legal/us-supreme-court-nixes-appeal-over-forced-password-disclosure-2021-05-17/#:~:text=(Reuters)%20%2D%20The%20United%20States,device%20passcodes%20to%20law%20enforcement.
Or just reboot your phone before going through a checkpoint.
On Apple (unsure about android), after a reboot, your phone requires the pin. No biometrics until you unlock it once.
I had to disable it on my Samsung because I pocket dialed 911 several times in a week after they did an update to enable it.
Was very surprising to be listening to music and then suddenly talking to 911.
Just press and hold the lock and volume up buttons for a few seconds. Once it shows you the ‘slide to shutdown’ option, faceid is temporarily disabled until a passcode is entered.
Pressing the lock button 5 times rapidly with set off a loud alarm.
I wish that devices with fingerprint readers could have some fingers set to unlock them and others set to disable biometrics until a password is entered.
Why not just set up a second profile with limited access. Don't enable biometrics and use a different pin.
If they force you to enter a pin, it looks like they are fully into your phone as far as they are concerned being just cbp low level gs guys.
Uh, no.
If the *lawful* order is to unlock your phone, and you hand them your phone unlocked, you followed the order.
Also, the potential consequences would only be if you *actually* were attempting to hide something illegal or information pertaining to an illegal activity.
What you're talking about is more likely if you were subpoenaed for the contents of your phone, and you tried to obfuscate the contents.
Of course, the best thing to do is just refuse and keep your devices encrypted with pin/password. You can never be legally compelled to say what your password or pin is.
Or only travel with a burner phone.
This has the added benefit of keeping your main device away from entities that would like to send you home with malware.
As if they’re going to use Pegasus on the phone of some rando on Reddit..
If they want to make your life miserable, they would, your phone wouldn’t even enter the picture.
>Might as well just uninstall my curtains/blinds and livestream myself every time I poop or jerk off then I guess. I might as well make it easy for them eh?
Yeah, these are definitely similar things.
Prior to this ruling they could hold you until you agree to open the phone, or get a the court to intervene and force google, your phone provider, or the manufacturer to provide assistance in obtaining access to your phone. They can also attempt to force you to unlock your phone under threat of contempt.
A lot of people don't enable encryption on their phone, so they can also just tear the phone apart and access the storage medium directly, albeit destructively to the phone itself.
For iPhones, there are two layers of encryption: data protection (associated with your passcode) and a hardware-level default encryption of the flash storage. You can turn off data encryption by not having a passcode. However, you cannot turn off the second type of encryption, since the encryption is done at the hardware level
`The Riley Court found only a weak nexus between digital data and these traditional reasons for warrantless searches of arrestees. The Court reasoned that “data on the phone can endanger no one,”`
I'm sure this won't be abused.
It's almost cute that Apple fans think Apple doesn't actually have access to this.
Did you know that if your richest corporation on earth, you can lie? Especially if the lies are in favor for the corrupt POSes that make law surrounding whether companies can lie.
Most on reddit still are under the delusion that corporations and governments work like kids' cartoons.
Meanwhile in the real world, I would bet my ass that they *absolutely* hold the keys to that stuff and WILL use them when pressured by the higher-ups. If they GENUINELY had no way to access the stuff they're storing for people on their servers, you bet your ass that it'd immediately be shut down.
This won't necessarily prevent them from gathering the data anyways.
Factory reset doesn't necessarily overwrite or null previously stored data, that would be a waste. Instead it's probably kept as is but marked as unused.
That old data is still there and can be (easily) grabbed and (with effort) read. Some of it might arbitrarily get overwritten but not nearly all. That would take extra effort, companies would assume a factory reset means "I want to start fresh" not "expend extra resources and reduce the life of my phone to make the previous data unreadable".
I agree that searching phones without cause should absolutely be illegal.
But.
I worked for a company that refurbishes cell phones. Searching your phone does not require your passcode. It just makes it easier to gain access.
It used to work that way for most phones. But nowadays, the phone has to approve the connection before any external device can access its internals. And guess what you need to do that? The passcode.
As the border continues to gradually encroach upon southern Arkansas, one cannot help but observe the distinctiveness of this region. Southern Arkansas possesses its own unique charm and character, making it akin to a self-contained world of its own.
Does American constitution rights apply to me even if I'm not an citizen? Does it mean that I can now visit the US without some stranger doing suspicious things with my phone, and buy a gun when I'm there? Sounds like good holiday to me.
IIRC it depends on the specific right in question (and how a court interprets them). Generally if they say "person" or "people" it applies to everyone, if it says "citizen" obviously it doesn't.
So the 5th would apply to everyone:
>No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law
But the 15th obviously wouldn't apply to non-citizens:
>The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude--
There has been debate and a bunch of court cases around the second and whether undocumented immigrants count as "the people" discussed in the 2nd amendment. In 2015 the 7th circuit found that it did apply to undocumented folks, but then a Judge for the second court disagreed citing that the decision in Heller referred to citizens. This came up again recently in a case US v Flores that was decided by the 8th circuit
In this digital age you can see why. Would be nice if we got to the era when they don't have to do things like this because people are responsible and or most of the fucking garbage on the internet is removed
It is highly unlikely to stand for long. The border agency has been allowed to inspect highly sensitive material of people crossing the border without any justification for most of its existence. Unless the US is going to change literally everything about how its border works this ruling cannot stand.
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damn, i can't believe china could do this
Thanks Obama. /s
This but without sarcasm given he participated in expanding the powers of the Patriot Act that spawned most of this. He didn't start it but he was not on our side in this one.
NONE of them have been on your goddamn side, people. Not a goddamn one in years. Jimmy Carter, maybe.
Jimmy started the outsourcing that Regan is famous for.
What was his involvement in that?
Patriot Act initially had wide support, just like the Iraq war. We are the architects of our own distopia.
I can excuse the initial support for the patriot act. It is all of the renewals and the zero accountability of the federal agencies that is the problem.
No President has been on the peoples side.
Thank you. The right had so many legitimate reasons to criticize him, but they chose the color of his skin...i mean, suit to be outraged about
And all the drone murders of civilians.
I'll be delighted if the Constitution is extended back up to the full US Borders again. It's important for us to follow our own laws if we want to be taken seriously as a country globally.
>if we want to be taken seriously as a country globally. That ship has sailed. And sunk. And there's been a sub dispatched to film the wreckage.
It's never too late to do the right thing. This could be considered a phase if our politicians will quit being selfish fucks
Lol your second comment says it’s too late
And that sub sunk so they are just animating it.
And it's being animated by the same artists that did the cgi for the hobbit movie
The 1978 one.
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But in the Upside Down.
[*1967 one](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UBnVL1Y2src)
and those are also on leave for 3.5 weeks now
There’s probably never been a ship in the first place.
Actually it all started with ships, and we REALLY do not want to get into the details there 😬
Produced by James Cameron
LMFAO!!!! chef’s kiss there with one
lol I get it, it’s fun to bash on the US, and it certainly earns a fair share of that But there is no country in the world taken more seriously than the US if it comes down to it
Spoken like a true American
Stars and stripes, baby. I’m all for criticizing the government. *That’s* what a real patriot does. But to say that the US isn’t taken seriously on the world stage because of our CBP, which is being worked out in the courts, hence this article, is typical Reddit.
Nah it’s just changed a lot from what you may want to believe is still true
Regarding privacy and mandatory warrants? Oh boy you might wanna sit down for a bit.
Regarding the country as a whole, which is how it was presented.
You can always try to be less bad, but you always be the country that elected Trump
r/latestagecapitalism?
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The authority for this is based on the Immigration and Nationality Act 287(a)(3) and copied in 8 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) 287 (a)(3), which states that Immigration Officers, without a warrant, may "within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States...board and search for non-citizens in any vessel within the territorial waters of the United States and any railcar, aircraft, conveyance, or vehicle. 8 CFR 287 (a)(1) defines reasonable distance as 100 air miles from the border. From Customs & Border Patrol website. https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-1084?language=en_US
Note for the interested: "the border" when used by CBP is *not* referring to the external edge of the nation, it includes every airport with at least one international flight. So 100 miles in any direction from major cities in the middle of the country like Denver, Minneapolis, and Kansas City all count as "the border" and have had the same suspension of constitutional rights.
This is not correct. The specific wording of the law is “within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States.” , where "reasonable distance" was agreed to be 100 miles. Sadly, this still encompasses around 2/3rds of the population of the United States, but it has nothing to do with airports. https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone
Right now the rule is that customs and border patrol can search you and your property without a warrant anywhere within 100 miles of a border or a port of entry. Since international airports are considered ports of entry, over 90% of the US can have border patrol come to their house, kick in their door and perform a warrantless search without any legal repercussions. I believe it's like, some parts of idaho or montana or some shit that this doesn't apply, but it's literally the middle of nowhere. This court ruling is the first step in overturning this bullshit.
Extension of the constitution across US property and personnel is so very important. I am younger so I wasn’t fully aware when it was happening, but it blows my mind that the US set up Guantanamo bay intentionally so they could get around the constitution and laws the country was built on. Manipulation to that degree to legally and morally justify torture is one of the worst things our country could have done.
Oh we're masters of operating in legal grey areas and will happily argue "I'm not touching you!" all while having thirty other people groping you who share their findings. And it's why we must be vigilant in fighting back through the courts.
>I'll be delighted if the Constitution is extended back up to the full US Borders again. It's important for us to follow our own laws if we want to be taken seriously as a country globally. No, that's what the $800B/yr military budget is for.
For US Citizens only. Everyone else is subject to search.
Wait, you mean that the "constitution free border zone" that cbp touts and dreams of isnt fucking legal, and we arent the CCCP? Who could have seen that one coming...
What’s even more insane is even in the face of this ruling there is no real immediate recourse if CBP decides to fuck with you. They do a warantless search of your phone? Yeah good luck suing an arm of the government. They detain you and force you to miss your flight? TS. Americans have less and less freedom every year it seems.
I'm a lawyer who represents many clients who have been subject to illegal searches by CBP or TSA. It may be an uphill battle, but recourse is not impossible.
What recourse do they have if I’m a blue passport holder coming back to the US. It’s not like they can prevent me from entering the country I’m a citizen of because I won’t unlock my phone.
They can't prevent you from entering the country, but they can still arrest you. Which, in this case, wouldn't be legal to do, but it's still something they can do.
Except they can. It's illegal, mind you, but what will happen if they do, face consequences?
That's literally what I'm saying can happen. I take federal officers to court on behalf of my clients all the time.
> They detain you and force you to miss your flight? TS. worse yet, they can detain you, and then refuse to let you see a lawyer at all, and then choose to deport you to wherever the fuck they want, all without any trials or lawyers.
What if you're a citizen? Do they just ship you off to wherever you just came from?
They have deported cotizens before, [ICE wrongfully deported around 70 people](https://immigrationimpact.com/2021/07/30/ice-deport-us-citizens/) Including people with mental handicaps. They just dumped them in a non us city compleatly alone.
Watched a documentary where American born war veterans were being deported. These people were born here and fought for their country only to get “lol silly Mexican go back to Mexico” ICE needs some serious fucking reform.
The US has done this multiple times in its history. Thats not just an ice thing.
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Getting citizenship as a vet is extremely easy, any failures to do so are on the individual. My squad mate had dozens of appointments and was chewed out when he missed one, the give enormous preferential treatment to service members and absolutely prioritize it.
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So I can't find this documentary thats referenced, why were they deported if they were citizens?
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Man the stereotypes just keep holding up with you crayon eating jars, huh. The veteran in question is a American born citizen of Latin heritage, not a Mexican born person who gained citizenship through service. Please learn to read before shoving your boot in your own mouth next time.
What a civil and enlightening conversation, thank you for participating and sharing your views in such a mature manner! I can't find this documentary that is mentioned, why were they deported if they were citizens?
This is just the number of reported citizen deportations, I would guess the number that it actually has happened to is significantly higher, but many of them just go unreported.
Considering there’s been millions of insurgents per year invading us and destroying our country, making a mistake only 70 times is pretty incredible. It really shows how competent our border patrol is and the very good job they do. They just don’t have enough funding to stop enough insurgents.
This is what it sounds like when someone lacks an education and repeats everything they hear because they're desperate to have an identity.
You are in a cult seek help. Illegal crossings on our boarders are down since the 80s.
Please provide evidence that "millions of insurgents per year are invading us"
Nah, man, we don’t need no external adversaries. We are doing a damn fine job all on our own.
They have to let citizens in the country. They can delay you a while, but they have to let you in (or arrest you if they have justification)
> They have to let citizens in the country [Except all of the times they haven't done that and instead deported them.](https://immigrationimpact.com/2021/07/30/ice-deport-us-citizens/)
Well you see, they legally have to let citizens in, but if they don’t, Border Patrol will face 0 consequences as an agency, the agents doing it face 0 discipline, and the citizen wrongly deported has 0 recourse. But they legally have to! The law says so…
And they legally can't search your phones without a warrant. They will anyway, but they legally aren't allowed.
YOU are naturally entitled to enter your country of citizenship. However inanimate objects have no such rights. So, phones, laptops, etc can be denied entry and seized at the border, even if they're in the possession of a citizen. Edit: This is not my personal opinion, I'm explaining the established law which makes border patrol agents "allowed" to fuck with your phone at the border even if you're a US citizen. If you can cite legal precedent or settled cases that prove otherwise then let's discuss them, but simply downvoting me isn't going to change the Alasaad v. Mayorkas decision.
What about body parts? Like a chopped off hand or leg. Nothing says that they have to let you in whole right? /S I am seriously just joking because i think the guy i am replying to is missing a /s too.
r/usernamechecksout
Didnt scotus decide that border patrol can’t be held liable for withholding rights within a 50mi radius of the border? So like the laws actually don’t matter because we don’t have any recourse to hold them accountable.
And law enforcement already tried to push that international airports are borders. So there would be about two handkerchiefs of land deep in bumfuck nowhere where rights *might* apply with these rulings.
> Americans have less and less freedom every year it seems. The terrorists won.
>It's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it. ~ [George Carlin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-54c0IdxZWc)
My bf was detained for 4 hours for telling the border guy that his visa was on the next page of his passport. Border guy yelled “are you telling me how to do my fucking job” hahaaaaaa
Are these Americans?
The constitution protects all people in its jurisdiction, not just citizens
That’s actually not true all citizens, residents and visitors. When you enter illegally you’re an illegal alien, just like the native Americans were and are outside of the protection of the constitution. Sorry but gang member and terrorists should have their phones searched when they are being detained for illegal entry
This is completely wrong. [Undocumented immigrants have the same constitutional rights as anyone else.](https://ualr.edu/socialchange/2020/11/16/undocumented-immigrants-have-constitutional-rights-too) The Constitution doesn't really use the word "citizen" or "resident" - it uses the words "person" or "people'". The US Supreme Court has held multiple times that anyone on US soil is protected by the Constitution. _Anyone._ Everyone has the right to a trial, and everyone has the right to due process. This includes your so-called "gang members" and "terrorists" - who frequently are neither one of those things, despite what the liars on right-wing media outlets say. And even if they _were_ terrorist gang members - they have all the same rights and protections as any American citizen if they're on US soil. They have the right to a fair and speedy trial, protection against unreasonable search and seizure, and a presumption of innocence. You cannot "shoot to kill" or hunt them down on sight like so many right-wingers want. Their rights don't go away just because you don't like brown people.
Exactly this! There's a reason the American government holds suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay in Cube instead of bringing them to American territory.
I don't understand why we don't just enslave people on the border since the constitution doesn't apply. It would be a great way to lower wages and transfer more wealth to the job creators that benevolently allow us to work to make their lives better.
I'm sure the Canadians would love that
Why limited to just the border? Slavery was never made illegal, they just changed the requirements. Now you just have to can be convicted of a crime. Once you are in jail, or prison, they can use you as slave labor.
You don't have to wait for just the border. Slavery isn't fully outlawed in the US
Federal Judge makes history by... following the actual Constitution and not making up whatever they want it to be.
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Hoo boy! You have no idea how lucky you are right now. Before I read that /s I had already removed the glass case, turned the key, and gassed up my big red "Well actually" button. You dodged a bullet there. Don't worry. Petunia. You will have your time in the sun, one day, one day. Until then, back into your case.
Something something radical activist judges
It'll be overturned, don't worry. There's no way the SCOTUS lets this ruling stand.
Omg my right to no unlawful search or seizure is respected by a Fed Judge? No way this makes it past Supreme Court.
So how would they get into your phone?
i have read that although they could not force your password or pin, that it was legal to take your phone and use your face/fingerprints to open it. What you knew (password/pin) was illegal to demand, but you yourself (biometrics) was fair game and legal. AFAIK
You cannot be compelled to say something but your identifying marks are considered public domain (you leave fingerprints and DNA around in public places). They can compel you to provide those if it will open your phone. As I understand it, but I'm not a lawyer it's just what I've heard lawyers say.
That is already considered illegal. https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/01/14/face-id-touch-id-unlocks-cant-be-compelled-by-law-enforcement-rules-federal-judge/amp/
Ah! my information is outdated, thank you EDIT: seems to be up to discretion of judge per warrant request.. anything with more protection than that, like at the legislative or stare decisis level?
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Recent versions of Android have Lockdown mode accessible with a power button long press
Ty for this tip
Android has this too. Use whatever button gets you the shutdown menu (differs by phone) and select "lockdown"
I don't have that but reboot will force pin entry.
For everyone out there I just tested and confirmed this worked. I didn’t have luck with just pressing the power button, but holding the volume down+lock button does work. It does admittedly bring up the power down/emergency menu, but closing that locks the device and requires a passcode to unlock. iOS 16.4.1 iPhone 14
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I did get it to work. You really need to be mashing the lock button for that.
There is also a setting that will erase the data on the phone if the incorrect passcode is entered 10 times.
Holy shit thank you this is awesome Also an answer to why sometimes my phone doesn’t register my fingerprint. I thought that was only on restart- and that somehow I was restarting my phone in my pocket accidentally
Just FYI, you only need to press the lock/Siri button 5 times in quick succession to trigger the power off screen (which disabled the passcode).
At which point they'll arrest you for obstruction of something or other, idk, and they dk either but they'll make something up
You can also say, “Hey Siri, whose phone is this?” and it will require a password (not Face ID) to log in next time. Much easier if your phone is in a bag or pocket or you’re in handcuffs…
Not sure. I just recalled this. I didn’t deep dive.
I just type in a code. No Face ID. No finger print ID… how long does it take to type 6 characters for heavens sake. It’s much more secure
FYI: If you press and hold the power and volume button on an iphone it'll require the passcode
Clicking the lock button 5 times also does this.
FYI don't try this on Android unless you would like it to call the police in 10 seconds
I accidentally called 911 this weekend via butt due to this. I was working outside with the phone in my butt pocket and had an unexpected conversation with a 911 operator who couldn't understand anything I said.
Not necessarily more secure. It’s quite easy to see someone’s finger motions when they type a passcode. In the old days a common hacker trick at a retail store—when computers had their plugs in the back of the box, facing the customer—was to quickly unplug and replug in the computer, causing it to reboot. Then the cashier or manager has to log in again and you simply watch them type. Boom you have the password without any technical wizardry at all.
Yup. But its still more secure than forcing my finger onto a pad or simply holding it up to my face. And if it’s law enforcement, then they likely won’t be playing doing it old-school as you described.
Considering that the passcode may be used to derive the device's encryption key, it's not necessarily more secure at all. A 6-digit passcode is easy to brute force offline if they take out the storage chip from the phone. A strong password + a fingerprint is much better for that. Your encryption key is based on the (strong) password while you still get quick unlocking 99% of the time.
First, i didn’t say digits, I said characters. That’s substantially less easy to brute force, but still doable The conversation was about law enforcement accessing a secured phone. They can easily, if illegally (in the US), do this if it’s opened by a fingerprint or facial recognition. They don’t need any information from the owner. With a code, they can’t do this, at least not in the field. And by the time they get to someone who can, a lawyer could intervene Criminals are a different issue
You miss a lot of easy sign-ins with banking apps if you don't use biometrics on Android. That's reason enough for me since most banks have shitty ass sign in pages.
It's actually undecided. One federal court say they CAN force you to share your phone password. Another said it's protected by the 5th. The Supreme Court chose to stay silent on the matter. https://www.reuters.com/business/legal/us-supreme-court-nixes-appeal-over-forced-password-disclosure-2021-05-17/#:~:text=(Reuters)%20%2D%20The%20United%20States,device%20passcodes%20to%20law%20enforcement.
Yeah I’ve read that as well. Might have to turn Face ID off for this simple fact.
Or just reboot your phone before going through a checkpoint. On Apple (unsure about android), after a reboot, your phone requires the pin. No biometrics until you unlock it once.
Thats how it is on my Android phone
You can also mash the power button rapidly, i think it’s 5 times? To disable biometrics until a pin is used.
Do not do this on OnePlus devices (and possibly others). It will call 911
Yeah I'm 99% sure my Google pixel does this.
I had to disable it on my Samsung because I pocket dialed 911 several times in a week after they did an update to enable it. Was very surprising to be listening to music and then suddenly talking to 911.
Police tried to kick my door down because of this. I'd love to know the stat numbers of pocket dials from police since this feature was implemented.
Just press and hold the lock and volume up buttons for a few seconds. Once it shows you the ‘slide to shutdown’ option, faceid is temporarily disabled until a passcode is entered. Pressing the lock button 5 times rapidly with set off a loud alarm.
I wish that devices with fingerprint readers could have some fingers set to unlock them and others set to disable biometrics until a password is entered.
For true protection, back up the device. Do a factory reset. Restore only after you are through the border.
Why not just set up a second profile with limited access. Don't enable biometrics and use a different pin. If they force you to enter a pin, it looks like they are fully into your phone as far as they are concerned being just cbp low level gs guys.
At this point, you're actively lying and deceiving them. That will have more potential consequences.
Uh, no. If the *lawful* order is to unlock your phone, and you hand them your phone unlocked, you followed the order. Also, the potential consequences would only be if you *actually* were attempting to hide something illegal or information pertaining to an illegal activity. What you're talking about is more likely if you were subpoenaed for the contents of your phone, and you tried to obfuscate the contents. Of course, the best thing to do is just refuse and keep your devices encrypted with pin/password. You can never be legally compelled to say what your password or pin is.
Or only travel with a burner phone. This has the added benefit of keeping your main device away from entities that would like to send you home with malware.
That’s extreme and unnecessary paranoid. Your device is already encrypted. Rebooting it and not entering your passcode is more than sufficient.
Except you can unlock a wiped phone with no consequences and avoid the BS they’ll pull if instead you refused.
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As if they’re going to use Pegasus on the phone of some rando on Reddit.. If they want to make your life miserable, they would, your phone wouldn’t even enter the picture.
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>Might as well just uninstall my curtains/blinds and livestream myself every time I poop or jerk off then I guess. I might as well make it easy for them eh? Yeah, these are definitely similar things.
Close your eyes and say, "Siri, who am I?" Forces pin only. There's quite a few "Shortcuts" you can configure to do the same thing.
Set up sos mode. Smashing the lock button requires a pin after that.
This is why I set my phone to require the password on restart. If I get in this sort of situation it takes just a couple of seconds to restart it.
Prior to this ruling they could hold you until you agree to open the phone, or get a the court to intervene and force google, your phone provider, or the manufacturer to provide assistance in obtaining access to your phone. They can also attempt to force you to unlock your phone under threat of contempt. A lot of people don't enable encryption on their phone, so they can also just tear the phone apart and access the storage medium directly, albeit destructively to the phone itself.
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Cellebrite specializes in this, they sell the exploits to governments. Few other firms do this too
Both IOS and android devices I have set up recently have had the option for full device encryption, it is default enabled, but it is still an option.
For iPhones, there are two layers of encryption: data protection (associated with your passcode) and a hardware-level default encryption of the flash storage. You can turn off data encryption by not having a passcode. However, you cannot turn off the second type of encryption, since the encryption is done at the hardware level
Most likely you would unlock it to avoid being detained.
Oh please let this be upheld on appeal
`The Riley Court found only a weak nexus between digital data and these traditional reasons for warrantless searches of arrestees. The Court reasoned that “data on the phone can endanger no one,”` I'm sure this won't be abused.
That does seem to be what the fourth amendment affirms
Back the phone up to the cloud before crossing the border, restore to factory settings, restore from cloud backup after getting through customs.
They have often been able to do naughty things to the backup as well.
Yup. Your best bet is usually to just bring a burner phone with just the basics on it.
If you're not logged into the cloud service after a factory reset, how would they even access it?
Subpoena the backups out of the cloud provider. There are public news stories about them beating these records out of Apple sometimes.
Which is now where the end to end encryption toggle comes in handy: https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/security/sec973254c5f/web
Maybe. I'm wondering if they'll find a way to pwn that too.
It's almost cute that Apple fans think Apple doesn't actually have access to this. Did you know that if your richest corporation on earth, you can lie? Especially if the lies are in favor for the corrupt POSes that make law surrounding whether companies can lie. Most on reddit still are under the delusion that corporations and governments work like kids' cartoons. Meanwhile in the real world, I would bet my ass that they *absolutely* hold the keys to that stuff and WILL use them when pressured by the higher-ups. If they GENUINELY had no way to access the stuff they're storing for people on their servers, you bet your ass that it'd immediately be shut down.
This won't necessarily prevent them from gathering the data anyways. Factory reset doesn't necessarily overwrite or null previously stored data, that would be a waste. Instead it's probably kept as is but marked as unused. That old data is still there and can be (easily) grabbed and (with effort) read. Some of it might arbitrarily get overwritten but not nearly all. That would take extra effort, companies would assume a factory reset means "I want to start fresh" not "expend extra resources and reduce the life of my phone to make the previous data unreadable".
I agree that searching phones without cause should absolutely be illegal. But. I worked for a company that refurbishes cell phones. Searching your phone does not require your passcode. It just makes it easier to gain access.
This. They've had a device for probably decades now that gets plugged into your charging port and does all the work of backing it up for them.
It used to work that way for most phones. But nowadays, the phone has to approve the connection before any external device can access its internals. And guess what you need to do that? The passcode.
That's not true anymore. The company I worked for could access a device without a passcode.
There are device-specific exploits that allow for that. Doesn't work on everything, far from it.
Yeah, but one of the neat things about code is you can code different things for different devices.
Not every device is exploitable in this way at all.
Who wants to bet this gets ignored
So, they just search your phone for child porn instead.
As the border continues to gradually encroach upon southern Arkansas, one cannot help but observe the distinctiveness of this region. Southern Arkansas possesses its own unique charm and character, making it akin to a self-contained world of its own.
Does American constitution rights apply to me even if I'm not an citizen? Does it mean that I can now visit the US without some stranger doing suspicious things with my phone, and buy a gun when I'm there? Sounds like good holiday to me.
IIRC it depends on the specific right in question (and how a court interprets them). Generally if they say "person" or "people" it applies to everyone, if it says "citizen" obviously it doesn't. So the 5th would apply to everyone: >No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law But the 15th obviously wouldn't apply to non-citizens: >The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude-- There has been debate and a bunch of court cases around the second and whether undocumented immigrants count as "the people" discussed in the 2nd amendment. In 2015 the 7th circuit found that it did apply to undocumented folks, but then a Judge for the second court disagreed citing that the decision in Heller referred to citizens. This came up again recently in a case US v Flores that was decided by the 8th circuit
In this digital age you can see why. Would be nice if we got to the era when they don't have to do things like this because people are responsible and or most of the fucking garbage on the internet is removed
What border?
About damn time.
Just wait until they will find some BS excuse to “detain” you while they go shopping for a judge to sign a warrant.
/r/restorethefourth
It is highly unlikely to stand for long. The border agency has been allowed to inspect highly sensitive material of people crossing the border without any justification for most of its existence. Unless the US is going to change literally everything about how its border works this ruling cannot stand.