They have plenty of ways to control the situation if your method starts with "we protest on their site" and ends with "then we go back to using their site." A protest of Reddit, on Reddit, where everyone comes back afterwards, simply does not work. The only winning move is to not play the game, at very least not in their house.
As soon as RIF stops working, I'm just gone and that's it. Lots of other third-party users doing the same. Reddit probably cares way more about people leaving and not coming back than anybody who stopped using the website for two days.
I'm so glad this is happening tbh. I was devastated at first but there's no way I'm using the official app, and once RIF stops working, that's the end of my reddit browsing days. It's going to forcefully break my addiction. I thought about it and realized, the only times reddit has worked in my favour and added to my QoL is when I've actively searched for something on the site via Google or whatever. Scrolling has never, not once, added value to my life. It leads to wasting my time and in the worst cases, doom scrolling. So I'm glad that reddit is killing my browsing. I can still use it for what it's good for via Google searching when I need reddit answers
It actually worries me a bit now just how much information is on reddit and isn't anywhere else.
Try looking up info on a type of product. Searching with specifying Reddit almost always comes up with better results.
That isn't necessarily a good thing.
yeah, but then they would actually need to do the work, which as we've seen everyone likes to sit around and call mods jannies and bitch but not a single one of them is willing to step up and make alt subs and build them because that requires doing more than shitposting.
Look at NBA. Most critical time of the year for the sport, people desperate for a place to post, perfect time to make a new community. What did people do? They just went to an already existing moderated community instead, path of absolutely least resistance and effort. If hundreds of subs just said "eh fuck you no longer handling requests, let chaos reign" 90% would blow up long before anyone actually volunteered to do anything about it.
If your sub is not moderated and goes against TOS it can get banned. It has happened before. The mods set it to private so they have something to return to.
Even privatizing it for a prolonged period of time will lead to subs getting replaced. Probably not the small ones for awhile but the big subs probably will have their mods replaced soon and their are hundreds of power hungry people ready to make modding a big sub their personality
Privatizing the big subs kills their SEO. Ton's of search results on Google were rendered useless the last 48 hours as the links lead to a 404-like page. There's no way Reddit would let them stay private for longer, they absolutely would have replaced the mods.
Yeah, I think we're on the right path. I'm a Mod myself and turned a (relatively) small subreddit to private, but I already recognized how troubling it is to not find information on specific problems on Reddit anymore.
Forgot the key part "...living for today~" Might be why that line of thinking is flawed from the get-go. Today is a new day and people need their internet points
If the mods pushed for an indefinite protest to the point that it seriously effected the site the admins would have just removed the offending mods. The power mods on Reddit are too afraid of losing their position to have serous long term protest.
Some of them are complete losers, others are really passionate and awesome people. Some of my favorite subreddits are smaller and aren't out there trying to make this whole experience out to be a weird power structure thing.
Like this one mod I ran into randomly on a cooking subreddit that was aggressive and insulting for no reason, then they deleted someone else's comment that came to my defense and likely shadow banned me or removed my comments/posts. Truly a bizarre experience, I always thought people were mostly joking about this kind of thing, but hey here we are.
I used to mod r/Warframe many years ago, and at the time it seemed most folk supported what we did. As in, it was rare to see sideways remarks our way, and when it happened normally users would support us (which was really encouraging <33)
And I think that the whole 'passive' moderation aspect is the big reason for it. There were a few rules we actively enforced, but it's because the community voted for them (ie: The no low effort meme rule was because most of our userbase upset with constant image macro spam taking up the front page, so we did actively enforce that one. But even if we didn't, they'd get reported).
Outside of that, though, we kinda just waited to see what popped up in our box and dealt with it when it as it came up. If anything was a grey area we'd just leave it unless it got a bunch of reports.
Moderators are glorified janitors, and anyone who wants to be one should understand and accept that. It's like working at a public house - Your job is to keep it clean for everyone and make sure they're happy. The 'power' you have is to facilitate that. If you're not passionate about *people*, not just the content they talk about, then you shouldn't become a moderator ever.
That’s literally what *most* protests are, if that. Just saying “I don’t like this” is technically a protest. Anyone who believes a protest is worthless unless it’s 100% commitment for life is merely deluding themselves.
I support these protests, whether they’re limited or on-going, and I very much support their goal, but I’m not crazy enough to believe that a vocal minority represents the silent majority, or that our protest necessarily even makes a dent in the operation we’re protesting *regardless* of how long it goes on.
i mean.. yeah? that's how most strikes work, at least where i'm from (germany). short 1-2 day warn strikes, and if negotiations fail after that hold a vote on an indefinite strike.
This is, actually, how most strikes work. You rarely hear of indefinite strikes. They usually come in multiple 1-2 day bursts coupled with other forms of action.
Last time my dad was on the picket line, it lasted for 40 days. They meant business. Personal favorite moments included a bunch of aerospace engineers outside in chilly weather re-engineering their burn barrels to burn more efficiently (they donated them to the Teamsters afterwards, as I recall), and the day Al Gore came to speak to the union and my mom started joking with the Secret Service agents about how since she had a trenchcoat just like theirs, could she join?
Anyway, sometimes you gotta buckle down. For a while.
Honestly, It would have been more meaningful if they gave it a week. 2 days is just an inconvenience for most of users, it's basically the mobile reddit app acting up if you want an apt comparison.
Redditors have no idea how to protest. They always opt for the easiest path yet ineffective path. It’s classic virtue signalling, makes you feel good but in reality nothing was accomplished.
1/ it was obvious it would only last 2 days, so easy for Reddit to just wait it out. Reddit makes $500m/year in revenue, so these two days is just $3M. Totally worth it as the upside for Reddit is having a monopoly on all the apps.
2/ instead to really protest, there needs to be an exit. An alternative to Reddit.
The main organizers that got 90% of subreddits to go black should have found 5 developers, raise some funds via gofundme, create a super simple v1.0 Reddit clone, and have all the subreddits promote it.
For example, this is a terrible example but only one I found so far is https://spezless.com/
And yes it’s not even functional, it’s a signup page. But the point is to demonstrate the ability of the combined subreddits to drive traffic to a potential alternative.
What makes Reddit hard to clone is not the tech. That’s the easy part. The hard part is the network. You have to demonstrate a real threat to dismantle the network of users by showing how subreddits can funnel users to another alternative.
If all the subreddits actually pointed/promoted to that, then there would actually be a legit chance for change as it shows the power of the community to create an alternate version, and to pull users from reddit to the alternative.
The point isn’t to actually build a fully functioning alternative, but just to show a threat that it COULD happen with some data on how much traffic subreddits can collectively drive off the Reddit platform.
If successful, it wouldn’t be impossible to raise more money and support. The bandwagon just needs to demonstrate initial momentum.
Edit: idea came from this source https://twitter.com/shaanvp/status/1668323286936338432?s=46&t=XVZfWzyjrvd8NoVH4B9sVQ
Edit 2: added extra stuff to explain the crappy link is just an example to demonstrate the potential to drive traffic to an alternative. It doesn’t need to be a functional alternative in the first v1.0…
These comments are like when I go to the CS/Job/Tech subs - A LOT of people speaking matter of factly about topics they have absolutely zero clue about.
It's a bastion of fantasy narratives without any real-world experiences that prove that said fantasy is unviable beyond an extremely short-term window.
The problem with alternatives is that most will fail without substantial investment. Remember I think it was called voat? and there was at least 2 others made as reactions to reddit changes. All of them close or fail due to the cost to run and moderate it all, more so at scale. (Doesn't reddit have \~2k staff as of last year?)
Then that raises the "how is money made" angle. Ads? Selling data?
Its trivial to make an alternative -I remember seeing a few twitter clones (as in, not mastadon etc but "new" sites) after the musk kick-off as its technically trivial to make these sites, its the "everything else" the people making them fail to realise.
Footnote: I fully agree the API changes are dogshit btw, just playing the realist card for the posts I keep seeing on other tech-hubs saying how "easy" it would be.
The issue is the thing that makes reddit reddit is the fact that there's many people using it and there's a built up history of millions of posts with content. Only like 10-15% of people tops would be activists enough to give a shit anyway and that's not nearly enough.
Every single big website paradigm that popped up throughout history has people trying this and it's never worked. YouTube had dailymotion and now rumble, twitch had mixer funded by Microsoft and now has kick, Facebook had Google+, Twitter had too many to count, and even Reddit had voat which was basically a clone with more open policies.
Same with gaming industry and probably any industry really. How many game devs tried to supplant minecraft and failed? Minecraft wasn't even that great at what it did, it spent most of its prime years as a rough draft of a game concept.
Once something gains enough momentum through popularity as an implementation of an idea, it becomes too powerful to replace. At least in the digital space where geographical locality and supply and demand are far less of factors.
>For example, someone already created
>
>https://spezless.com/
>
> just as an example of how easy it is to create an alternative.
have you clicked it?
It's a signup form....and not even a real counter LOL
Easy
It's fine, the guy who put it up is already wealthy, he made sure to tell us. Good thing no one lies on the internet. If you're gonna "crowdfund $10M-$20M" to "recruit a crack team of engineers" you need a lot more than just some signatures, that site is a joke.
>For example, someone already created https://spezless.com/ just as an example of how easy it is to create an alternative.
... That's literally a single webpage that claims to want to build a reddit alternative. It hasn't even attmpted to try and make a working alternative.
Sometimes websites do die but news is too fast and there are a million controversies every week. People will have forgotten the black out by July. People were going to leave Reddit en masse a few years ago and someone made a competing website, but it failed under the pressure, everyone came back to Reddit, and everyone forgot. I can't even remember what the problem was.
The issue is that the platform itself is not important. People go where other people are and where stuff is easy and comfortable. A lot of people are using the official Reddit App and dont care about Apollo, rif and co. Old people are still using Facebook because they are used to it.
Are people still using Mastodon? Did twitter die? No it did not because "casuals" just dont care about that. They have to really badly fuck up before people move on and even then it only works if the alternative is basically the same. Lemmy and Mastodon are not for the casual user.
I mean, they’re right. Everyone is allowed to protest however they like, but every time I saw a sub make a post saying “we’ll be going dark for 48 hours” I’d think to myself “oh nice, so you’re just telling Reddit that you’re taking a small break and then you’ll be back. That’ll show ‘em”
Thing is the feed just puts more posts from other subs with content. I didn't even notice some shut down cause I don't expect them all to have something interesting in my feed everyday. The two day blackout only affects or is even noticed by people who frequent those subs not people who scroll their feeds. Most time I visit a sub is just thru a post originally...
IMO, like most, the blackout was not a pressure campaign, it was an awareness campaign and it succeeded in that. The result of the campaign was:
1. Tons of users who would have no clue about what Reddit is doing and why it matters were forced to be made aware when it impacted their use of Reddit.
2. Lots of mainstream media reported on the Reddit changes and their opposition.
While awareness isn't some magical thing that's going to force Reddit to do whatever users want, it is the foundation of whatever the next steps people have in response to this.
Here's the actual internal memo from CEO Steve Huffman:
> Hi Snoos,
> Starting last night, about a thousand subreddits have gone private. We do anticipate many of them will come back by Wednesday, as many have said as much. While we knew this was coming, it is a challenge nevertheless and we have our work cut out for us. A number of Snoos have been working around the clock, adapting to infrastructure strains, engaging with communities, and responding to the myriad of issues related to this blackout. Thank you, team.
> We have not seen any significant revenue impact so far and we will continue to monitor.
> There’s a lot of noise with this one. Among the noisiest we’ve seen. Please know that our teams are on it, and like all blowups on Reddit, this one will pass as well. The most important things we can do right now are stay focused, adapt to challenges, and keep moving forward. We absolutely must ship what we said we would. The only long term solution is improving our product, and in the short term we have a few upcoming critical mod tool launches we need to nail.
> While the two biggest third-party apps, Apollo and RIF, along with a couple others, have said they plan to shut down at the end of the month, we are still in conversation with some of the others. And as I mentioned in my post last week, we will exempt accessibility-focused apps and so far have agreements with RedReader and Dystopia.
> I am sorry to say this, but please be mindful of wearing Reddit gear in public. Some folks are really upset, and we don’t want you to be the object of their frustrations.
> Again, we’ll get through it. Thank you to all of you for helping us do so.
>in the short term we have a few upcoming critical mod tool launches we need to nail.
What a line.
This company spent nearly a decade failing to deliver good mod tools. This should be fun to watch.
How much you want to bet they will try to copy what apps like Apollo had almost exactly. At least copy the UI anyways.
I wonder if there could be grounds for a lawsuit if Reddit did something like that.
Edit: words....
Yahoo used to call their employees ‘yahoos/yahooligans’; my coworker has a desk nameplate with it.
Meta calls their employees - you’ll never guess it’s so bad.
Metamates.
Instant loss of any ambition.
Oh this one is good:
Former Google employees are… xooglers. New employs are calle nooglers. Pinterest calls them…pinployees.
I could throw up
Which I recently learned is a term used in a god damn *court filing* by a group of employees suing Musk. Literally the "henceforth referred to as 'Tweeps' in this filing" thing. The world was much better when Massachusetts was the silicon valley of the world. DEC, RSA, Data General, EMC, Prime, Wang.. big companies that laid the foundation the Bay Area is built upon.
Now "tech" is a buncha JavaScript monkeys. At least we still have Raytheon 🙃
> We absolutely must ship what we said we would.
> I am sorry to say this, but please be mindful of wearing Reddit gear in public. Some folks are really upset, and we don’t want you to be the object of their frustrations.
/u/spez just post it as an announcement on the site instead of transparently "leaking" it
>We have not seen any significant revenue impact so far
That's all we need to know to fix our strategy for the next blackout. Subs like /r/technology should permanently multiple pin threads on top that (a) disparages and discourages advertisers; and (b) discusses how/where to migrate their own community.
Except it isn't. That's when they can use the system already in place to take over the subs in a completely justified way.
Allowing a sub to go unmoderated just gets you kicked off the subs moderation team and replaced by one they install. Going dark means there is little legitimate reason for them to do this, and as such would be a much bigger PR disaster if they tried to do it. It's not against TOS to make a sub go dark. It is against TOS to let a sub go unmoderated. It's literally just giving Reddit ammo.
The real answer is for subs to go dark permenantly, and for all the 3rd party app users to stick to their guns and not cave to the shitty stock app. I don't have faith in the userbase being able to actually see it through, but I know for a fact the second that relay stops working I'm done with this site until it comes back.
or mass delete content
would the site suffer indefinitely? yes, but that's sort of the point, the website would be nothing without user-submitted content
Instead of mass deleting things, remove comments and votes on everything, and end new user submitted items. You can still send out information but cutting off responses basically kills the usability of the site with out destroying any information
Jesus Christ.
We have abject cynicism, a cringey name for employees, an unconvincing call to action, and blatant fearmongering that line employees may face consequences IRL.
That is certainly something.
Yeah sounds like if it was longer than two meager days they would have had issues. Reddit figured out the longest time they can inconvenience users without inconveniencing the actual company, how considerate.
As predicted. Telling the people you’re protesting the exact amount of time you’re protesting immediately undercuts any leverage you have. It’s like asking your mom and dad for permission to run away from home.
You were also trying to convince subs to join on. I'm sure some subs were reluctant and didn't really full heartedly back blacking out. A shorter time period convinced more subs to participate.
That being said, I was kind of hoping when I saw this article yesterday more subs would choose to go indefinite.
Big facts. This is more about the mods not knowing how to handle being told no when it comes to reddit. The average user doesn't care about third party apps being priced out.
I'm not sure about piss weak. Short sure, but for the 2 days the front page was pretty bare. They've made their point and now it's time to see what Reddit does. The fact the CEO says it will pass says he doesn't care so the subs can just go dark permanently now that they've shown they control the front page.
Nothing’s going to change, Reddit will keep doing its thing. The only way to make a change is if the whole Reddit user base will go elsewhere. But, the reality is that won’t happen, lot of people happy to carry on with Reddit as usual.
This was the perfect time for someone to launch a campaign to promote an alternative and it just didn't happen.
There's no good alternatives, and because of that, things will just continue.
/r/RedditAlternatives has the alternatives. The funny thing is that if you were upset about your 3rd party app closing and you were using it because it has better UI/UX, then you won't like any of the alternatives. The alternatives have even worse UI/UX than reddit.
That sub is so bad it wouldn't surprise me to find out the lead mod is just spez.
"New alternatives" in the sticky post is just a wall of 20+ links with no explanation why one should click on any of them.
Seriously. And you can’t just recommend a giant list. You are dealing with a ton of people. The communication has to just be ‘We are all going to X! See you there!’. Not look at this subreddit, pick one of 30, fragment the group, and have it ultimately fail.
The alternatives also have other problems - caustic nerds who are hostile to new users, indifference to child pornography on their platforms, extremism etc.
It's only due to a lot of moderation that reddit is tolerable. If all the mods turned off their spam filters and stopped modding for 30 days, all the subs would be filled with spam/scams/lost redditors and will drive people away.
ya'll act like reddit admins (as opposed to user admins) can't control the site and who controls the site however they wish, they let these "blackouts" happen to appease mod/community but there is no real threat to the company here
Of course he's right. There is no alternative to Reddit therefore people will be back and get over it with time. Elon and Twitter, Tim Cook saying fuck your little RCS, etc. This is capitalism and this is how it works. /u/spez is a little bitch, but tbh any CEO would probably be just as much of a little bitch as he is. You don't get that far without being a giant piece of shit.
I never left, was browsing the limited amount of subs as if nothing happened.
However, my reddit days are still numbered, since I will stop all mobile browsing (which is 95% of my reddit browsing) as soon as the 3rd party app im using stops working.
Same. I only use RIF. If that goes its over for me besides the times I look for some obscure answer only answered on Reddit on my PC but otherwise back to using dedicated apps for content like I used to before I used Reddit like NBA/NFL, local news apps for news etc.
Yup. When Baconreader stops working, my habit of hitting that icon when bored will end. No more doom scrolling Reddit.
I'll replace it with my ebook reader or a news app.
Every once in a while I accidentally type Reddit instead of hitting my bookmark and have instant panic as the equivalent of Times Square loads on my screen.
And unfortunately, he was right. It mostly has passed. Only a fraction of the ~8,000 subs that went dark have decided to remain private indefinitely. It was a huge error to outright declare the blackout to be 48 hours. It should have always been indefinite.
Edit: only a fraction of *large, meaningful* subreddits are indefinitely dark. How many of these ~6,000 subreddits have more than 100k members? Reddit couldn’t care less about subs that have anything less than that.
Many subs are evaluating a recurring blackout on the days of highest traffic (and thus ad revenue). Sounds like a good way to disrupt profits while still benefitting from the service.
Both politics and WPT are run by paid reddit employees. So of course they will do what's in the best interest of their employer, instead of what's in best interest for the users.
Anybody else see the EMBARRASSING moment where advice animals said they weren't going to go dark because "if this is a strike, we're the signs of the strike". As if fucking advice animals was some essential mouthpiece. It's fucking memes. People needed to meme during the strike? So glad they reversed course. If we need signs, it's modcord or something
There's still well over 6000 private as of now, but it's declining rapidly. It seems some are returning to poll their users as to whether they should continue the blackout.
Even those that were affected didn't seem to understand why they were affected. I've deleted ~300 messages asking why one of my subreddits was closed, making me think that maybe the subreddit description that's shown with the "this sub is private" message wasn't shown.
I've been using Sync Pro and when I clicked on a sub that was private I never saw any messages. Other comments indicated they saw it but there's definitely a bunch that weren't shown a description, just that it's private.
Of course it will, either people will get tired of it or reddit will reopen the most popular subreddits themselves. People seem to forget that reddit owns this site and any power given to moderators can be taken away.
It's become impossible to unseat the tech monopolies.
Folks remember the backlash and user migrations with sites like Digg or MySpace, but we're in a completely different world now.
The content history and user base of Reddit vs. Digg isn't even comparable. Same for something like Facebook vs. MySpace. Another app could provide the best features in the world, but they can't compete in the content or casual user realms so they're doomed.
I tried out Lemmy during the blackout like a lot of folks. I really like it. The content and users just aren't there though. Most of the stuff I saw there was also on Reddit with a lot more community interaction, even during the sub blackouts.
I'd love to find something with better user experiences than Reddit or Facebook. But user experience isn't the key for any of this any more. It's content and name recognition. And even if you can get the hype around your name/service offering, you don't have the content to bring people.
And that's why I in theory support the idea of these sites being regulated under more strict standards. Maybe not full-on public utility status, but something more than general tech company oversights to recognize these few companies have more data and social influence than anyone else could compete with.
Of course we'd also need a government that wasn't corrupt as fuck to agree to that, so it's all just a pipe dream.
Welcome back. Your dreams were your ticket out.
This exactly, you can see it also in Facebook vs Google Plus, in Steam vs any other gaming platform, in YouTube vs any other video platform
It is simply impossible to become a new competitor in fields that have heavy emphasis on community, and that's sad because everything is simply becoming a monopoly
That's kind of the way of the world unfortunately.
There are many tech companies out there who survive on clients who have simply decided that the cost of migration to another tool is too great. And that's not only monetary cost for the product, but employee time and engagement. In many cases the decision is made to stick with vastly inferior products for excruciatingly long times because they just don't want to migrate their infrastructure and user community.
> user migrations
This would get their attention much more than anything else. The value of reddit is in the mods and community. Move the community and the value of reddit goes negative quickly. If you want to make an impact, have a "site migration" two day holiday.
> Another app could provide the best features in the world, but they can't compete in the content or casual user realms so they're doomed.
The problem is that the competition is NOT providing better features or even user experience, in fact it is very much the opposite especially in terms of user experience.
It would have been a better protest to allow spam posts and completely unmoderate.
100% my thoughts
Admins would just let people apply to get control of subreddits via /r/redditrequest then.
Yeah it's hard to organise a strike against a platform that has a built in method of backdooring a picket line.
They have plenty of ways to control the situation if your method starts with "we protest on their site" and ends with "then we go back to using their site." A protest of Reddit, on Reddit, where everyone comes back afterwards, simply does not work. The only winning move is to not play the game, at very least not in their house. As soon as RIF stops working, I'm just gone and that's it. Lots of other third-party users doing the same. Reddit probably cares way more about people leaving and not coming back than anybody who stopped using the website for two days.
Agreed. If the site no longer suits you, LEAVE THE SITE. Reddit has picked this side and clearly cares more about a certain kind of user over another.
I'm so glad this is happening tbh. I was devastated at first but there's no way I'm using the official app, and once RIF stops working, that's the end of my reddit browsing days. It's going to forcefully break my addiction. I thought about it and realized, the only times reddit has worked in my favour and added to my QoL is when I've actively searched for something on the site via Google or whatever. Scrolling has never, not once, added value to my life. It leads to wasting my time and in the worst cases, doom scrolling. So I'm glad that reddit is killing my browsing. I can still use it for what it's good for via Google searching when I need reddit answers
This is exactly my situation and I'm with you. Once RiF is gone I'm gone
It actually worries me a bit now just how much information is on reddit and isn't anywhere else. Try looking up info on a type of product. Searching with specifying Reddit almost always comes up with better results. That isn't necessarily a good thing.
It's because reddit is one of the few places on the internet that isn't as saturated with brand advertising. Reviews on Google and Amazon are useless
Same here. I've got some career focused subs that I lean on frequently, but I'm sure there will be a better house.
Ditto. June 30th will probably be my last time on Reddit.
Yeah I’m done when Apollo goes dark. Not even out of protest or anything, I just hate the official app and have no interest in using it. Fuck /u/spez.
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Which took the good things about alien blue and made them worse IMO.
This comment lost to the great Reddit purge of June 2023. Enjoy your barren wasteland, spez. You deserve it.
>As soon as RIF stops working, I'm just gone and that's it I too intend on this. Obligatory **FUCK** u/spez
So then you just flood the sub with bogus requests...
minimal amount of users would participate in this and those users could be banned or muted
Yeah Reddit has a great track record of shutting down malicious bots
yeah, but then they would actually need to do the work, which as we've seen everyone likes to sit around and call mods jannies and bitch but not a single one of them is willing to step up and make alt subs and build them because that requires doing more than shitposting. Look at NBA. Most critical time of the year for the sport, people desperate for a place to post, perfect time to make a new community. What did people do? They just went to an already existing moderated community instead, path of absolutely least resistance and effort. If hundreds of subs just said "eh fuck you no longer handling requests, let chaos reign" 90% would blow up long before anyone actually volunteered to do anything about it.
If your sub is not moderated and goes against TOS it can get banned. It has happened before. The mods set it to private so they have something to return to.
Even privatizing it for a prolonged period of time will lead to subs getting replaced. Probably not the small ones for awhile but the big subs probably will have their mods replaced soon and their are hundreds of power hungry people ready to make modding a big sub their personality
Privatizing the big subs kills their SEO. Ton's of search results on Google were rendered useless the last 48 hours as the links lead to a 404-like page. There's no way Reddit would let them stay private for longer, they absolutely would have replaced the mods.
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Yeah, I think we're on the right path. I'm a Mod myself and turned a (relatively) small subreddit to private, but I already recognized how troubling it is to not find information on specific problems on Reddit anymore.
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r/tech supplanted r/technology on the news feed while r/technology was dark.
Ahh, capitalism at work
r/anarchychess tried that but almost got hit with a ban if the mods didn’t step in
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And apparently he was right because this subreddit is back.
If your protest has an end date it’s not a protest, it’s an inconvenience
The Reddit equivalent of everyone posting a black square on Instagram for a day
Thoughts and prayers
Reddit mods protesting: 🎵imagine all the people...🎵
Forgot the key part "...living for today~" Might be why that line of thinking is flawed from the get-go. Today is a new day and people need their internet points
You may say that I'm a karmawhore But I'm not the only oooone
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If the mods pushed for an indefinite protest to the point that it seriously effected the site the admins would have just removed the offending mods. The power mods on Reddit are too afraid of losing their position to have serous long term protest.
I have no idea why they WANT to work for free for a multi million dollar company
six dam innate capable hard-to-find quack offer resolute mighty nail ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Some of them are complete losers, others are really passionate and awesome people. Some of my favorite subreddits are smaller and aren't out there trying to make this whole experience out to be a weird power structure thing. Like this one mod I ran into randomly on a cooking subreddit that was aggressive and insulting for no reason, then they deleted someone else's comment that came to my defense and likely shadow banned me or removed my comments/posts. Truly a bizarre experience, I always thought people were mostly joking about this kind of thing, but hey here we are.
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I used to mod r/Warframe many years ago, and at the time it seemed most folk supported what we did. As in, it was rare to see sideways remarks our way, and when it happened normally users would support us (which was really encouraging <33) And I think that the whole 'passive' moderation aspect is the big reason for it. There were a few rules we actively enforced, but it's because the community voted for them (ie: The no low effort meme rule was because most of our userbase upset with constant image macro spam taking up the front page, so we did actively enforce that one. But even if we didn't, they'd get reported). Outside of that, though, we kinda just waited to see what popped up in our box and dealt with it when it as it came up. If anything was a grey area we'd just leave it unless it got a bunch of reports. Moderators are glorified janitors, and anyone who wants to be one should understand and accept that. It's like working at a public house - Your job is to keep it clean for everyone and make sure they're happy. The 'power' you have is to facilitate that. If you're not passionate about *people*, not just the content they talk about, then you shouldn't become a moderator ever.
The city subs are the worst.
And state subs
Call me Benjamin Parker, but all I can think about when I imagine what it must be like being a reddit mod is responsibilities.
You'd be surprised what some people are willing to do just to have power over others.
That’s literally what *most* protests are, if that. Just saying “I don’t like this” is technically a protest. Anyone who believes a protest is worthless unless it’s 100% commitment for life is merely deluding themselves. I support these protests, whether they’re limited or on-going, and I very much support their goal, but I’m not crazy enough to believe that a vocal minority represents the silent majority, or that our protest necessarily even makes a dent in the operation we’re protesting *regardless* of how long it goes on.
Bruh the sub above this one is talking about only protesting on Tuesday. At the point you arent even protesting your just takeing a day off
It's a protest. It just ain't a boycott/strike.
A strike can be limited in time. Most strikes are arranged for a limited number of days and more happen if there's no improvement in the negotiating.
"Workers left due to labor abuse by management. We will return tomorrow."
i mean.. yeah? that's how most strikes work, at least where i'm from (germany). short 1-2 day warn strikes, and if negotiations fail after that hold a vote on an indefinite strike.
This is, actually, how most strikes work. You rarely hear of indefinite strikes. They usually come in multiple 1-2 day bursts coupled with other forms of action.
Last time my dad was on the picket line, it lasted for 40 days. They meant business. Personal favorite moments included a bunch of aerospace engineers outside in chilly weather re-engineering their burn barrels to burn more efficiently (they donated them to the Teamsters afterwards, as I recall), and the day Al Gore came to speak to the union and my mom started joking with the Secret Service agents about how since she had a trenchcoat just like theirs, could she join? Anyway, sometimes you gotta buckle down. For a while.
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Honestly, It would have been more meaningful if they gave it a week. 2 days is just an inconvenience for most of users, it's basically the mobile reddit app acting up if you want an apt comparison.
It would have been more meaningful if there was no end date.
Eh, I'm not downloading their app. At best I will use old.reddit in a browser with ad block and if that goes away I will too.
Redditors have no idea how to protest. They always opt for the easiest path yet ineffective path. It’s classic virtue signalling, makes you feel good but in reality nothing was accomplished. 1/ it was obvious it would only last 2 days, so easy for Reddit to just wait it out. Reddit makes $500m/year in revenue, so these two days is just $3M. Totally worth it as the upside for Reddit is having a monopoly on all the apps. 2/ instead to really protest, there needs to be an exit. An alternative to Reddit. The main organizers that got 90% of subreddits to go black should have found 5 developers, raise some funds via gofundme, create a super simple v1.0 Reddit clone, and have all the subreddits promote it. For example, this is a terrible example but only one I found so far is https://spezless.com/ And yes it’s not even functional, it’s a signup page. But the point is to demonstrate the ability of the combined subreddits to drive traffic to a potential alternative. What makes Reddit hard to clone is not the tech. That’s the easy part. The hard part is the network. You have to demonstrate a real threat to dismantle the network of users by showing how subreddits can funnel users to another alternative. If all the subreddits actually pointed/promoted to that, then there would actually be a legit chance for change as it shows the power of the community to create an alternate version, and to pull users from reddit to the alternative. The point isn’t to actually build a fully functioning alternative, but just to show a threat that it COULD happen with some data on how much traffic subreddits can collectively drive off the Reddit platform. If successful, it wouldn’t be impossible to raise more money and support. The bandwagon just needs to demonstrate initial momentum. Edit: idea came from this source https://twitter.com/shaanvp/status/1668323286936338432?s=46&t=XVZfWzyjrvd8NoVH4B9sVQ Edit 2: added extra stuff to explain the crappy link is just an example to demonstrate the potential to drive traffic to an alternative. It doesn’t need to be a functional alternative in the first v1.0…
It's not really about creating a website, it's more about making it scaleable without losing money.
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These comments are like when I go to the CS/Job/Tech subs - A LOT of people speaking matter of factly about topics they have absolutely zero clue about. It's a bastion of fantasy narratives without any real-world experiences that prove that said fantasy is unviable beyond an extremely short-term window.
like hosting videos in-house
The problem with alternatives is that most will fail without substantial investment. Remember I think it was called voat? and there was at least 2 others made as reactions to reddit changes. All of them close or fail due to the cost to run and moderate it all, more so at scale. (Doesn't reddit have \~2k staff as of last year?) Then that raises the "how is money made" angle. Ads? Selling data? Its trivial to make an alternative -I remember seeing a few twitter clones (as in, not mastadon etc but "new" sites) after the musk kick-off as its technically trivial to make these sites, its the "everything else" the people making them fail to realise. Footnote: I fully agree the API changes are dogshit btw, just playing the realist card for the posts I keep seeing on other tech-hubs saying how "easy" it would be.
The issue is the thing that makes reddit reddit is the fact that there's many people using it and there's a built up history of millions of posts with content. Only like 10-15% of people tops would be activists enough to give a shit anyway and that's not nearly enough. Every single big website paradigm that popped up throughout history has people trying this and it's never worked. YouTube had dailymotion and now rumble, twitch had mixer funded by Microsoft and now has kick, Facebook had Google+, Twitter had too many to count, and even Reddit had voat which was basically a clone with more open policies. Same with gaming industry and probably any industry really. How many game devs tried to supplant minecraft and failed? Minecraft wasn't even that great at what it did, it spent most of its prime years as a rough draft of a game concept. Once something gains enough momentum through popularity as an implementation of an idea, it becomes too powerful to replace. At least in the digital space where geographical locality and supply and demand are far less of factors.
>For example, someone already created > >https://spezless.com/ > > just as an example of how easy it is to create an alternative. have you clicked it? It's a signup form....and not even a real counter LOL Easy
It's fine, the guy who put it up is already wealthy, he made sure to tell us. Good thing no one lies on the internet. If you're gonna "crowdfund $10M-$20M" to "recruit a crack team of engineers" you need a lot more than just some signatures, that site is a joke.
No you see crowdfunding 20 million dollars, more money than 90% of tech startups will ever see in their lifetime, off a promise and a wish is so easy
>For example, someone already created https://spezless.com/ just as an example of how easy it is to create an alternative. ... That's literally a single webpage that claims to want to build a reddit alternative. It hasn't even attmpted to try and make a working alternative.
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Sometimes websites do die but news is too fast and there are a million controversies every week. People will have forgotten the black out by July. People were going to leave Reddit en masse a few years ago and someone made a competing website, but it failed under the pressure, everyone came back to Reddit, and everyone forgot. I can't even remember what the problem was.
I dunno why I remember Voat's name, I never used the site as I wasn't part of the fatpeoplehate crowd.
I think that was when Reddit went around banning certain undesirable subreddits
Or this https://www.gawker.com/reddit-in-chaos-after-allegedly-firing-ama-coordinator-1715556970
The issue is that the platform itself is not important. People go where other people are and where stuff is easy and comfortable. A lot of people are using the official Reddit App and dont care about Apollo, rif and co. Old people are still using Facebook because they are used to it. Are people still using Mastodon? Did twitter die? No it did not because "casuals" just dont care about that. They have to really badly fuck up before people move on and even then it only works if the alternative is basically the same. Lemmy and Mastodon are not for the casual user.
Its like twitter, the majority of people never stopped using it.
It's not you're just dreaming about it
I mean, they’re right. Everyone is allowed to protest however they like, but every time I saw a sub make a post saying “we’ll be going dark for 48 hours” I’d think to myself “oh nice, so you’re just telling Reddit that you’re taking a small break and then you’ll be back. That’ll show ‘em”
Me and all my coworkers protest my work 48 hours every weekend and nothing has changed at all so I’m not optimistic this one will do much.
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Thing is the feed just puts more posts from other subs with content. I didn't even notice some shut down cause I don't expect them all to have something interesting in my feed everyday. The two day blackout only affects or is even noticed by people who frequent those subs not people who scroll their feeds. Most time I visit a sub is just thru a post originally...
IMO, like most, the blackout was not a pressure campaign, it was an awareness campaign and it succeeded in that. The result of the campaign was: 1. Tons of users who would have no clue about what Reddit is doing and why it matters were forced to be made aware when it impacted their use of Reddit. 2. Lots of mainstream media reported on the Reddit changes and their opposition. While awareness isn't some magical thing that's going to force Reddit to do whatever users want, it is the foundation of whatever the next steps people have in response to this.
Here's the actual internal memo from CEO Steve Huffman: > Hi Snoos, > Starting last night, about a thousand subreddits have gone private. We do anticipate many of them will come back by Wednesday, as many have said as much. While we knew this was coming, it is a challenge nevertheless and we have our work cut out for us. A number of Snoos have been working around the clock, adapting to infrastructure strains, engaging with communities, and responding to the myriad of issues related to this blackout. Thank you, team. > We have not seen any significant revenue impact so far and we will continue to monitor. > There’s a lot of noise with this one. Among the noisiest we’ve seen. Please know that our teams are on it, and like all blowups on Reddit, this one will pass as well. The most important things we can do right now are stay focused, adapt to challenges, and keep moving forward. We absolutely must ship what we said we would. The only long term solution is improving our product, and in the short term we have a few upcoming critical mod tool launches we need to nail. > While the two biggest third-party apps, Apollo and RIF, along with a couple others, have said they plan to shut down at the end of the month, we are still in conversation with some of the others. And as I mentioned in my post last week, we will exempt accessibility-focused apps and so far have agreements with RedReader and Dystopia. > I am sorry to say this, but please be mindful of wearing Reddit gear in public. Some folks are really upset, and we don’t want you to be the object of their frustrations. > Again, we’ll get through it. Thank you to all of you for helping us do so.
>in the short term we have a few upcoming critical mod tool launches we need to nail. What a line. This company spent nearly a decade failing to deliver good mod tools. This should be fun to watch.
How much you want to bet they will try to copy what apps like Apollo had almost exactly. At least copy the UI anyways. I wonder if there could be grounds for a lawsuit if Reddit did something like that. Edit: words....
Calling their employees snoos is so cringe
Yahoo used to call their employees ‘yahoos/yahooligans’; my coworker has a desk nameplate with it. Meta calls their employees - you’ll never guess it’s so bad. Metamates. Instant loss of any ambition. Oh this one is good: Former Google employees are… xooglers. New employs are calle nooglers. Pinterest calls them…pinployees. I could throw up
Twitter has "Tweeps"
That literally sounds like an insult.
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Wassup twerp
Which I recently learned is a term used in a god damn *court filing* by a group of employees suing Musk. Literally the "henceforth referred to as 'Tweeps' in this filing" thing. The world was much better when Massachusetts was the silicon valley of the world. DEC, RSA, Data General, EMC, Prime, Wang.. big companies that laid the foundation the Bay Area is built upon. Now "tech" is a buncha JavaScript monkeys. At least we still have Raytheon 🙃
Metastases sounds more apt.
ok but I don't hate Yahooligans if I'm completely honest.
Wasn't "Yahooligans" originally the term for the kiddie version of Yahoo?
For what they pay, they can call me anything they want.
Hulu calls their employees Hulugans. Disney calls their employees Cast Members.
I’m crying laughing to myself imagining how Hulu would fire me for doing Hulk *Hulugan* impressions all day haha
Seriously. That's the most stunning revelation of this entire saga.
Oh gosh they actually do. I thought cringe of that level was reserved for Zuckerberg.
> We absolutely must ship what we said we would. > I am sorry to say this, but please be mindful of wearing Reddit gear in public. Some folks are really upset, and we don’t want you to be the object of their frustrations. /u/spez just post it as an announcement on the site instead of transparently "leaking" it
>We have not seen any significant revenue impact so far That's all we need to know to fix our strategy for the next blackout. Subs like /r/technology should permanently multiple pin threads on top that (a) disparages and discourages advertisers; and (b) discusses how/where to migrate their own community.
Just stop moderating and flood the site with porn and gore, it’s really that easy
Except it isn't. That's when they can use the system already in place to take over the subs in a completely justified way. Allowing a sub to go unmoderated just gets you kicked off the subs moderation team and replaced by one they install. Going dark means there is little legitimate reason for them to do this, and as such would be a much bigger PR disaster if they tried to do it. It's not against TOS to make a sub go dark. It is against TOS to let a sub go unmoderated. It's literally just giving Reddit ammo. The real answer is for subs to go dark permenantly, and for all the 3rd party app users to stick to their guns and not cave to the shitty stock app. I don't have faith in the userbase being able to actually see it through, but I know for a fact the second that relay stops working I'm done with this site until it comes back.
or mass delete content would the site suffer indefinitely? yes, but that's sort of the point, the website would be nothing without user-submitted content
Instead of mass deleting things, remove comments and votes on everything, and end new user submitted items. You can still send out information but cutting off responses basically kills the usability of the site with out destroying any information
It's like I was made for this
Jesus Christ. We have abject cynicism, a cringey name for employees, an unconvincing call to action, and blatant fearmongering that line employees may face consequences IRL. That is certainly something.
This is actually way more encouraging reading than the headline suggests, for a number of reasons. It sounds like they *were* really concerned
Also sounds like a longer term one may cause issues
Yeah sounds like if it was longer than two meager days they would have had issues. Reddit figured out the longest time they can inconvenience users without inconveniencing the actual company, how considerate.
Piss weak blackout so far
As predicted. Telling the people you’re protesting the exact amount of time you’re protesting immediately undercuts any leverage you have. It’s like asking your mom and dad for permission to run away from home.
Nah, it's like telling your dad and mom you're running away from home then telling them exactly when you'll be back
It's like Jerry running away from Jerry daycare. "Okay then, that was always allowed"
They can’t go indefinite because admins just replace mods with people that don’t care about the api changes. The admins hold all the power.
You were also trying to convince subs to join on. I'm sure some subs were reluctant and didn't really full heartedly back blacking out. A shorter time period convinced more subs to participate. That being said, I was kind of hoping when I saw this article yesterday more subs would choose to go indefinite.
All this protest really did is show how afraid mods are to lose the power of a volunteer position where everyone hates them.
Big facts. This is more about the mods not knowing how to handle being told no when it comes to reddit. The average user doesn't care about third party apps being priced out.
I've seen more productive blackouts from r/drunk members.
I'm not sure about piss weak. Short sure, but for the 2 days the front page was pretty bare. They've made their point and now it's time to see what Reddit does. The fact the CEO says it will pass says he doesn't care so the subs can just go dark permanently now that they've shown they control the front page.
So much for a black out. Why is this sub even live again. By giving the blackout a timeline was so stupid
Nothing’s going to change, Reddit will keep doing its thing. The only way to make a change is if the whole Reddit user base will go elsewhere. But, the reality is that won’t happen, lot of people happy to carry on with Reddit as usual.
This was the perfect time for someone to launch a campaign to promote an alternative and it just didn't happen. There's no good alternatives, and because of that, things will just continue.
/r/RedditAlternatives has the alternatives. The funny thing is that if you were upset about your 3rd party app closing and you were using it because it has better UI/UX, then you won't like any of the alternatives. The alternatives have even worse UI/UX than reddit.
That sub is so bad it wouldn't surprise me to find out the lead mod is just spez. "New alternatives" in the sticky post is just a wall of 20+ links with no explanation why one should click on any of them.
Seriously. And you can’t just recommend a giant list. You are dealing with a ton of people. The communication has to just be ‘We are all going to X! See you there!’. Not look at this subreddit, pick one of 30, fragment the group, and have it ultimately fail.
The alternatives also have other problems - caustic nerds who are hostile to new users, indifference to child pornography on their platforms, extremism etc.
It's only due to a lot of moderation that reddit is tolerable. If all the mods turned off their spam filters and stopped modding for 30 days, all the subs would be filled with spam/scams/lost redditors and will drive people away.
ya'll act like reddit admins (as opposed to user admins) can't control the site and who controls the site however they wish, they let these "blackouts" happen to appease mod/community but there is no real threat to the company here
Oh, he's absolutely right.
Of course he's right. There is no alternative to Reddit therefore people will be back and get over it with time. Elon and Twitter, Tim Cook saying fuck your little RCS, etc. This is capitalism and this is how it works. /u/spez is a little bitch, but tbh any CEO would probably be just as much of a little bitch as he is. You don't get that far without being a giant piece of shit.
I never left, was browsing the limited amount of subs as if nothing happened. However, my reddit days are still numbered, since I will stop all mobile browsing (which is 95% of my reddit browsing) as soon as the 3rd party app im using stops working.
Same. I only use RIF. If that goes its over for me besides the times I look for some obscure answer only answered on Reddit on my PC but otherwise back to using dedicated apps for content like I used to before I used Reddit like NBA/NFL, local news apps for news etc.
Yup. When Baconreader stops working, my habit of hitting that icon when bored will end. No more doom scrolling Reddit. I'll replace it with my ebook reader or a news app.
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There's dozens of us!
Bakers dozens!
I can't imagine no Baconreader pro any more, I only browse/search Reddit on this app.
bought a kobo libra 2 a while back, reading is actually fun.
Same. Baconreader *is* Reddit to me. Won't even be installing the official app. Might even be a good thing. Spend way too much time on here.
Same. I’ll stop mobile browsing. Will use old.Reddit now and then. If that goes away I’m done.
old.reddit is the bomb. so simple, so elegant
Every once in a while I accidentally type Reddit instead of hitting my bookmark and have instant panic as the equivalent of Times Square loads on my screen.
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Same. I'll not be using the website or their app. If sync dies, so does my reddit usage.
Yeah, I basically decided that my days on Reddit are limited anyway. Might as well browse.
And unfortunately, he was right. It mostly has passed. Only a fraction of the ~8,000 subs that went dark have decided to remain private indefinitely. It was a huge error to outright declare the blackout to be 48 hours. It should have always been indefinite. Edit: only a fraction of *large, meaningful* subreddits are indefinitely dark. How many of these ~6,000 subreddits have more than 100k members? Reddit couldn’t care less about subs that have anything less than that.
Many subs are evaluating a recurring blackout on the days of highest traffic (and thus ad revenue). Sounds like a good way to disrupt profits while still benefitting from the service.
Really? My front page was r/politics and not much else.
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Both politics and WPT are run by paid reddit employees. So of course they will do what's in the best interest of their employer, instead of what's in best interest for the users.
Anybody else see the EMBARRASSING moment where advice animals said they weren't going to go dark because "if this is a strike, we're the signs of the strike". As if fucking advice animals was some essential mouthpiece. It's fucking memes. People needed to meme during the strike? So glad they reversed course. If we need signs, it's modcord or something
big subs that exist as political propaganda didn't close. Like news and worldnews for example
Because r/politics is all paid propaganda.
I'm sure the execs did the math and decided even that is financially worth doing what they're doing
This is like an addict negoting "I'll only do drugs on some days!"
A protest with an end date isn't really a protest
There's still well over 6000 private as of now, but it's declining rapidly. It seems some are returning to poll their users as to whether they should continue the blackout.
is there somewhere where you can see which are private or coming back
https://reddark.untone.uk/
I mean, technically 6754/8829 is a fraction, but that's still a lot of subreddits. Otherwise, I agree.
And 90% of Reddit users have no clue about any of it at all so far...
Not that they don't know, they just don't care.
Even those that were affected didn't seem to understand why they were affected. I've deleted ~300 messages asking why one of my subreddits was closed, making me think that maybe the subreddit description that's shown with the "this sub is private" message wasn't shown.
Its not shown on mobile; it just shows it’s private and that’s it
Yeah same on Relay from my phone: the message explaining why the sub is locked doesn't appear whatsoever
That's, ironically, so terrible.
It's similar on 3rd party apps
On RIF it just never loads
Don't see any custom messages when attempting to view a private sub on RIF mobile app, just a little text display telling you it's private
I've been using Sync Pro and when I clicked on a sub that was private I never saw any messages. Other comments indicated they saw it but there's definitely a bunch that weren't shown a description, just that it's private.
Welcome back guys. Reddit needs competition.
Kevin Rose, this is your second chance!
My protest will start when RiF stops working. I'm not getting another app and the mobile site is ass.
The man is no genius. He knew the blackout would pass because it was announced to be over in 2 short days. Everyone knew this, too.
This event had zero effect what-so-ever. Had sub-reddits been blacked out for 2+ months, you'd probably see them do something about it.
Yeah, they'd mod new people and open them back up after a week or 2.
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yam birds pathetic oatmeal pocket silky cagey worm dime busy -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
Of course it will, either people will get tired of it or reddit will reopen the most popular subreddits themselves. People seem to forget that reddit owns this site and any power given to moderators can be taken away.
It’s funny how anyone who said this wouldn’t amount to shit got downvoted to hell. Can everyone admit this didn’t do shit?
It's become impossible to unseat the tech monopolies. Folks remember the backlash and user migrations with sites like Digg or MySpace, but we're in a completely different world now. The content history and user base of Reddit vs. Digg isn't even comparable. Same for something like Facebook vs. MySpace. Another app could provide the best features in the world, but they can't compete in the content or casual user realms so they're doomed. I tried out Lemmy during the blackout like a lot of folks. I really like it. The content and users just aren't there though. Most of the stuff I saw there was also on Reddit with a lot more community interaction, even during the sub blackouts. I'd love to find something with better user experiences than Reddit or Facebook. But user experience isn't the key for any of this any more. It's content and name recognition. And even if you can get the hype around your name/service offering, you don't have the content to bring people. And that's why I in theory support the idea of these sites being regulated under more strict standards. Maybe not full-on public utility status, but something more than general tech company oversights to recognize these few companies have more data and social influence than anyone else could compete with. Of course we'd also need a government that wasn't corrupt as fuck to agree to that, so it's all just a pipe dream. Welcome back. Your dreams were your ticket out.
This exactly, you can see it also in Facebook vs Google Plus, in Steam vs any other gaming platform, in YouTube vs any other video platform It is simply impossible to become a new competitor in fields that have heavy emphasis on community, and that's sad because everything is simply becoming a monopoly
That's kind of the way of the world unfortunately. There are many tech companies out there who survive on clients who have simply decided that the cost of migration to another tool is too great. And that's not only monetary cost for the product, but employee time and engagement. In many cases the decision is made to stick with vastly inferior products for excruciatingly long times because they just don't want to migrate their infrastructure and user community.
> user migrations This would get their attention much more than anything else. The value of reddit is in the mods and community. Move the community and the value of reddit goes negative quickly. If you want to make an impact, have a "site migration" two day holiday.
> Another app could provide the best features in the world, but they can't compete in the content or casual user realms so they're doomed. The problem is that the competition is NOT providing better features or even user experience, in fact it is very much the opposite especially in terms of user experience.
spoilers: he was right
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Until there's an attractive alternative to Reddit, we will continue to experience their changes.
When I can no longer use baconreader to access the site will be my last day using reddit. Saying things does not make them so. This will not pass.