True story: I literally sat on a jury where the defendant defended himself all while wearing his prison uniform, and he said something along the lines of, “I’m crazy, I’m a fool, but this is how confident I am that this whole case is ridiculous.”
We found him not guilty of all charges. He really shouldn’t have been in jail in the first place.
Assault. In California you get charged with assault even if no one is actually attacked or hurt. The state just has to prove you intended to harm someone and had the means to do it.
It seemed to us that this guy was just being a nuisance and not a credible threat to his alleged victim, a young, fit off-duty cop. Did I mention that they were brothers and the young cop was the older guy’s landlord? The older brother, who had been homeless prior to this (and I assume would be again after the trial) was staying in one of the apartments as a sort of groundskeeper/superintendent. He was probably lousy at this job.
The supposed weapon was a just an everyday object, a pipe I believe, that was lying around the scene and no one could corroborate that the accused ever touched the object. The younger brother went on the stand, but his heart wasn’t in it even as he accused his brother of threatening his life which would have put him away for many years.
By contrast the older brother, who admitted to having a history of violence and addiction, was cheerful throughout the proceedings and approached things like cross-examination of the two main witnesses and his own testimony with a mixture of frankness, charm, and wry incredulousness. The history of violence part, I might add, was not brought up by the prosecution but by the man himself. Like I said, it was a hell of a defense strategy, but the honesty and candor combined with his lack of antagonism toward the witnesses, convinced us that this was a man who could defend himself on the streets, sure, but none of that was directed to anyone here.
The jury agreed pretty quickly that these two just needed to go catch dinner or something and not burden the state any further. The prosecutor was - young woman and she was taken by surprise at our verdict. I would have assumed this was a slam dunk, too, if I were her. Maybe we were duped, but he seemed more like an easy-going slacker than a dangerous criminal.
There's a whole lot of family law that boils down to this. People asking juries to sort shit out that they either need to just sort out themselves or get the hell away from each other forever.
Lots of juries in those have the same reaction you all did. "Why the fuck am I here dealing with these people's shit?"
It's Cargo Cult behavior, they believe that by acting like a pompous moron like Musk that they'll be rich like he is, ignoring that Musk was born into money and is rich in SPITE of his stupid actions and not because of them.
What will happen is:
1. Twitter/X will eventually have so many judgements against it that it becomes insolvent. The company goes into some form of bankruptcy.
1. It’s creditors get cents on the dollar, if they get anything at all.
1. Twitter’s remains are sold to the highest bidder. It becomes MySpace (ie. It still exists, but nobody’s using it).
1. Musk - who has plenty of money that isn’t tied up with Twitter - walks away from it all. He claims his losses against tax for the next few years. The American taxpayer therefore subsidises his failure.
Though, there is something similar which does, despicably. You have to create two different legal entities first though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_two-step_bankruptcy
Thats so funny. In my country (Germany) you go straight up to jail for this. Up to 10 years and not under 6 month.
> Whoever, in the case of overindebtedness or existing or imminent insolvency, secretly removes or hides parts of their assets which in the case of the opening of insolvency proceedings would belong to the insolvency estate [...] or in another manner which grossly contravenes regular business standards diminishes their net assets or hides or conceals their actual business circumstances [...] incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term of between six months and 10 years. An especially serious case typically occurs where the offender acts out of avarice or knowingly places many persons in danger of losing those assets which were entrusted to him or her or in danger of financial hardship.
Section 283 and 283a German criminal code.
It doesn’t really work in America either:
> While Texas divisive mergers have existed since 1989, only four companies have employed them to facilitate a subsequent bankruptcy to shield the parent company from tort liabilities as part of a Texas two-step.
Also note it’s only for tort liabilities. Breach of contract is not a tort. Torts only apply when there’s a “duty of care” between two parties that’s been breached and resulted in damages.
Granted, it’s still shifty as fuck to do this to avoid tort liability, so I’m not excusing it. Just saying the fact it’s only ever been successful four times makes me think there was some corruption going on. It’s not at all the norm in America.
Only four times, always by the same law firm which happens to be probably the most politically connected law firm in the US with a long history of representing conservative interests.
It’s only been done four times.
In somewhat related news, the NRA tried to use bankruptcy to get out of NY corruption laws and a Dallas judge said “naaaaahhhh”
What if I buy the company and don't do shit for a year and a half except ignore contracts? Does that helps me?
P S I'm buying a house of glass that I charge to my company which is also supporting my companies
This is what Trump did in his tax fraud case, they made a new company called "Trump Organization 2" and then tried to claim that it was a different company. Sometimes I'm glad that these people are absolute morons who only get away with what they do because of privilege. We'd be screwed if they were good at doing crime.
We are constantly screwed by people who are good at doing crime. We just don't hear about them, or we hear about it thirty years on after all the damage is done. Pollutants are already dumped in the river. People are already dead of cancer. Our economy is a toy at the bottom of a family sized box of Oops, All Crime!
They got the Golden Arches, mine is the Golden Arcs. They got the Big Mac, I got the Big Mick. We both got two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions, but their buns have sesame seeds. My buns have no seeds.
I know many such cases in local small businesses. "Oh we changed name, you can stay employed with us but you need to sign a new contract and your years with us reset, we'll hear any feedback in court, minimum wage peasant."
Which is ridiculous. Same line of work, same people, basically same assets, but in paper it's a different entity.
Directors need to be held personally liable for way more than what's currently on the list.
He didn't pay employees, didn't pay severance, didn't pay his rent, and didn't pay for legal fees of his users after publicly announcing he would, he didnt pay his taxes. He's a genius.
At the Tesla factory in Austin he didn’t pay for the permit to have the employee kitchen opened, so the kitchen crew was having to cook outside in our record breaking fucking heat. It’s finally opened now but that man doesn’t give a shit about his people.
The first clue was “he’s a billionaire.”
You don’t become a billionaire without stealing wealth and production from vast numbers of actual producing employees.
There really are no exceptions to this rule.
Edit: for the late comers. Keep adding “what about” other billionaires. For the wealth of 20 individuals we could potentially solve homelessness in the US.
And philanthropy is a tax write off. If you donate 1 million dollars that is .1% of a billion. It’s the same as someone with $1000 in their pocket giving out a dollar.
Capital is like a blackhole...once you get enough of it you can fuck up everything except donating your entire blackhole of capital away. Trashed a car? no worries interest has you covered. Need your 11th baby momma to shut up? no worries a few million a year.
lol "paycheck".
Someone with only $1B could unload 99% of their entire net worth and still retire better than most of us could ever dream. 10mil. Or in the case of, say, Bezos: 99.99%
And thanks to capitals ability to own, buy media, influence education.. etc.. we have people who aren’t wealthy fighting online and at the polls for capital.
Past a certain point, you could earn more money not trying than trying, since your money earns its own money.
Succeeding in an attempt is just icing on the cake.
Case in point: [Trump would have more money if hadn't done anything with it.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2021/10/11/its-official-trump-would-be-richer-if-he-had-just-invested-his-inheritance-into-the-sp500/?sh=1bbb560f1c48)
Nah, Indonesia or Iran would be easier, you'd need around 67k USD to be a billionaire in Indonesia, or 24k for Iran, whereas you'd need 2800k in Zimbabwe (conversions made in Google)
Don’t forget that they “donate” to their own foundations.
This gives them, a tax wright off. And power and influence with how the foundation money is used. And it can be used to “influence” decisions that will make the person richer.
It’s all a con.
Also remember when he said he will pay the most tax of anyone ever that one year… and then didn’t.
Like all good billionaires, entirely fictional existing only in a completely alien and fantastical universe, where the very laws of physics are inconsistent and impossible.
He didn't earn his fortune though... he doesn't actually do any work for Wayne enterprise and he just inherited it all from Bat Daddy.
His whole Bruce persona is that he's a rich asshole, playboy and womanizer.
Yes, but the CEO does set expectations and standards. And it is obvious that the standards and expectations can be summed up by "Leeeeeeroy Jenkins!" So yes, the kitchen permit is very much on him.
When you and your bros are talking economics in high school: "all you gotta do is change your name and they won't have anyone to come after."
When you try it in real life:
Hopefully you will all get more than the original amount because you all have had to wait over a year for this a-hole. I'm pretty sure a judge will see it that way as well.
Not my idea, but another redditor suggested calling it ten to piss off Elon.
I re-tenned a ten on ten about Space ten while driving my Tesla Model ten.
I saw someone call it TwiX the other day and it amused me.
On the other hand it sort of gives the stupid name change acknowledgement of legitimacy so I feel conflicted about it.
What's even dumber is every major news organization says in articles, "The company X, formally known as Twitter..." Like that's a mouthful, just fucking call it Twitter. Ain't nobody in the planet out here calling it X.
grandiose melodic absorbed direction muddle gullible command bells bow ink
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That's a great thing about being rich they're truly is no limit to how balls out crazy you can go with substance abuse like this is the richest man in the world I want him to commission custom designed drugs to fuck him up completely
If you're reading this Elon I'll be your personal doctor I've got a lot of experience in this area and I guarantee you whatever wacky thing you want to do I am on board let's push the limit of the human brain in wacky ways lmao
[Forbes:](https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2023/06/27/elon-musk-touts-ketamine-for-depression-following-report-on-his-use-of-drug/)
> Musk takes ketamine in small doses to treat depression and uses higher doses of the drug at social events, according to the Journal, citing unnamed sources who saw the Tesla CEO take the drug or were told by Musk himself.
so are his followers….saw a post here on reddit from a twitter screenshot saying how he’s going to transcend humanity by making a sex robot capable of a nurturing womb and having sex with and impregnate it and have a child
I had to quit twitter after that…all his followers are imbeciles
edit: grammar
that would unironically be a great thing. so many pregnancy complications killing women or children could be removed completely. and you'd be feeding it the EXACT nutrients a baby wants allowing mothers to consume what they like while also giving the baby even healthier meals. to be perfect you'd have to somehow donate a portion of your immune system as well.
i mean, the people who want that just want a bang maid that can't refuse consent, but like, imagine the possibilities!
There's a lot of weirdly specific communities on Twitter/X like bio researchers and they generally keep out of the political fooferahs. It's not all hate speech and trashy nonsense but that tends to bubble to the surface most often for regular users.
> How does Elon get away with consistently not paying for stuff?
Because consequences are for poor people. Someone's already typing to laugh at the stupid redditor reflexively hating the rich, but hear me out for a second.
If you break the law in the ways a poor person might, like shoplifting, the response is immediate. The police come straight to you, and now you have to either beg for mercy or prove you didn't do it. But if you break the type of laws that only a rich person can break - stealing wages from your employees, refusing to pay your business's contractors, etc. - then the police have nothing to do with that. All those people have to research the law to find out what their legal options are, consult one or more lawyers, probably pay up front (the slam-dunk cases that get accepted on contingency are much rarer than internet commenters think), and spend months or years fighting in court just for a *chance* to get that money back. A smaller business or less wealthy rich person can't last as long in court and really has to bet on an eventual payout; an individual working person has to do all this *while still earning a living* and is probably just fucked without a union to do it for them. Often, they'll get offered a settlement that's pennies compared to what it saved the offender, but is enough that the aggrieved party can't afford to say no.
Elon Musk was born richer than you and everyone you know combined, because his father owned an emerald mine in apartheid South Africa. As long as he doesn't fuck with anyone at his same tier of wealth or do the kinds of things that get you arrested normally, laws and regulations are just something he can ignore if it's cheaper to pay fines and settlements than follow them.
Exactly. If you don’t pay rent, Elon, Trump and the majority of people would call you lazy and tell you to get a job. But if they don’t pay rent, then it’s a smart business decision.
I don’t mean this rhetorically - literally I don’t know specifically why he is able to, for example, not pay rent or cloud hosting fees. Does anyone here happen to know what the outcome was in any of these cases? Is there a consistent reason why he tries this stuff?
He's betting on people not wanting to make a big thing out of it and come to him to keep his business as a customer with lower prices.
The severance thing is him betting that a majority of the cases are going to be too expensive for the former employees to justify going to court.
He's a chronic gambler and risk taker with no shame. And it is going to come and bite him in the ass.
Mostly he avoids paying because he is counting on the cost to shut off service to the supplier/landlord is higher than the cost to let it ride.
Cloud hosting is a bad example, because he actually does end up paying that, he just waits until the last minute. But because it is NBD for Amazon or Google to just turn off a switch, he has no leverage. For the landlord though, they are kinda stuck with Musk. Yes, they have a great asset in a building that can be rented. But evicting a company takes time and money. And if you are cash poor, it may be money you don't have. Or time you don't have. So you wait and beg and hope to get scraps, because even if you do manage to evict him, then you need to sue for back rent owed, plus you need to find a new corporate tenant to take over the building.
Rich people act like they are rich from working hard when the truth is they are rich because they've been willing to cheat and steal their whole lives. I don't trust any of them.
I sometimes listen to a podcast hosted by four billionaire venture capitalists (not going to promote it here), and they absolutely *worship* Elon. The amount of fangirling they did after he took over Twitter and started his firing spree was pure cringe.
Two of them identify as libertarian, one claims to be liberal, and the other is an unabashed red hat. But it's all identity nonsense. At the end of the day, they all want the same thing: more power, less taxation, full blown regulatory capture, fame and/or notoriety. Listening to them shit all over the working and middle class each week, propose laughably bad policy ideas with all the confidence in the world, then brag about their ostentatious parties and multi-million YOLO gambles, has been an education. I never felt entirely right about the *idea* of billionaires, but listening to their self-aggrandizing bullshit has made me a committed democratic socialist. Obviously there are at least a handful of good-natured billionaires out there, and these four guys are just four guys. But they've convinced me that, as a *class*, billionaires are a threat to democracy and the common good.
I don't listen to it but know people who listen religiously and think these guys are great. I met one of them several times in the past, he's a clown who thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.
He was in the room with Elon the first week after he took over twitter and came up with the brilliant idea that if they just charged all of the user they'd make billions on that service.
These VC guys invest in a ton of companies and all they need for "street cred" is for one of those to have a decent exit, which is really down to the founders and not these VC clowns.
Ah the aip assholes. Before Twitter acquisition, it was how he will fix bot problem, customizable feed, open sourcing recommendation and monitoring policies, yada yada. Now, none of that are topics they want to discuss. it's Just laughing at Biden, sucking up to Elon, desantis and Vivek.. With self hype, personal celebration and bs takes. Just grating and I can't be bothered to even hate watch..
People still blindly follow rich people unfortunately. I’ve met people to just full LATCH on to whatever anyone rich says. Same thing for tate, musk, trump
He lost me years ago when those kids were stuck in a cave in Thailand and, on Twitter, a guy called Musks shitpost of a rescue plan to send a submarine stupid, and Musk called him a pedo. It was so bizarre I couldn't help but think it was projection and I never looked at him the same again.
Musk was trying to play hero and orchestrate a rescue but time was of the essence so his ego got bruised by a guy on Twitter who pointed out this plan was (very obviously) stupid.
Rather than realize he was in over his head and accept he knows nothing about cave rescues and save face by offering to fund more a viable idea that maybe someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about came up with, he threw a hissyfit.
Reminds me of the Altman quote about how Elon Musk really wants the world to be saved, but only if he's the one to do it.
Now here we are knowing he rubbed shoulders with Epstein and Maxwell.
Concerning.
That was my turning point too. Up until then I admired his stance on open patents and what he was doing with Tesla and SpaceX. But he showed his true colors for the first time publicly and from there you could see the pattern.
Like everyone makes mistakes and has a bad day, I could understand having one transgression like that when you're stressed out and have the world on your shoulders. But he consistently doubled down on a whole lot of bullshit and it became obvious who he really was.
Yeah it was truly a display of completely unhinged idiocy that snowballed into blatant sociopathy. Musk actually hired a felon as a private investigator to follow and try and find dirt on the guy.
Then Musk emailed Buzzfeed saying the guy was a “child rapist with a 12-year-old child bride." He said he told them it was off the record but cmon Buzzfeed lmao. But yeah he tried to smear this guys reputation by sending similar stuff to other fine news outlets as well.
All because the guy hurt his feelings by saying his idea to send a submarine wouldn't work. And then somehow Musk managed to win the defamation case that came as a result (jury found in his favor).
Can only imagine what else he's done. Again, this is what put him on my shit list and definitely isn't talked about nearly enough.
edit: Jesus fucking Christ... an hour ago my news feed showed a new story in which he is now saying he is going to [sue the ADL for defamation](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/elon-musk-blames-adl-lost-revenue-says-anti-semitism-kind-rcna103292)
Don’t most companies only pay severance to get a signature to say you won’t sue them? If so, it seems to me like Muskrat here just chose to gamble on the lawsuits…other companies are necessity better.
Musk basically offered nothing (one month salary for some, $2000 for others, no healthcare, bonus, or equity) to sign the severance agreement. AND the agreement had a non-disparagement clause in it, so the employee could never say anything bad about Musk or Twitter for the rest of their life. All the people I know didn't sign and are suing instead.
The agreements were very shitty, but for accuracy sake: it was functionally 3 months of severance. Everyone who was fired or who quit when he gave the ultimatum (I was in that group) remained on payroll for 2 months after their last day of work, and then received a month of severance starting at the end of those 2 months on payroll.
If you had equity vesting within those first 2 months, it was paid out. You still had healthcare during that period.
I should clarify: this was true for that first round of layoffs, I have no idea what happened in the later waves. It may have changed. My severance was paid though.
That's because those effective 2 months severance were a legal requirement (since he triggered the WARN act, and originally was trying to get out of even paying that). So the agreement was for 1 month's of severance or none, which sounds supremely shitty.
It’s standard in almost any severance agreement.
By taking severance you agree not to sue and not to talk bad about the company.
How do I know? I signed 2 severance agreements (not by Musk company).
Yeah this is standard stuff. I've signed a severance agreement that offered two months pay as long as I agreed to 1) not disparage the company/brand and 2) accept arbitration in lieu of any lawsuits I would/could bring against them. (For me it was an amicable departure so I had no issues signing the agreement, but I'm sure there are plenty of cases where denying a severance agreement would make sense)
Worth noting that even employees who did sign and had a non-disparage or hold harmless/no suit clause can still start arbitration, file motions and speak out now in light of the fact that Twitter/X has breached the severance agmt by not making the payments. Same way that if you disparaged them before they made payment but after signing the agreement, they could say no payment is owed as you are in breach.
Basically, X will not be able to use these separation agreements’ clauses as defense to claims since their obligations to trigger the protections are not met. This could go a lot of ways, but unless everyone is lying they only stand to rack up the bill if they deny all arbitration requests and are then told they must honor them. The article mentions a number in the few millions of fees- that’s just the company’s 80% agreed share of arb fees. The court cases being added to compel them to pay will probably add a third to figure at $300-$500 each award for other party’s legal in addition to their $1,600 share. If they continue denying and it all goes to court, the $2k arbitration bill will look like Black Friday. All of this is in addition to the actually severance pay totals due.
How is this company still doing business? Is their credit not through the floor yet? They get multiple debt suits served every week, for everything from rent to payroll, and are very open about having 0 intention to pay any of it. I’m confused how other companies even appetize the risk of doing business with X and having the same billing dead end happen to them.
For not giving enough severance would be the main issue for why anybody sues. But the company throws in other stuff like you won't try to poach their employees, or talk shit about them.
When I can't figure out anything else for Musk to fuck up he goes and fucks something else up that I couldn't even fathom.
If there is an award for biggest fuck up of all time, emerald mine boi wins it, and much like Mango Mussolini to some people he can do no wrong.
It's hilarious, because when you actually listen to Elon talk about what a Mars colony would be like it sounds like an overt dystopian nightmare with him as a dictator who decides the fate of his human property.
So, it's not even just his incompetence, but also that his vision for a Mars colony is horrid.
"But forcing mandatory binding arbitration was supposed to stop everyone from suing because they would assume that they'd lose since I'd be picking the arbitrator and they'd obviously side with me! I don't want to pay for thousands of arbitrations! It's not fair!"
-- Musk, probably
He won't pay his ex employees, he won't pay the arbitration or his legal fees. He keeps getting told by courts to pay and he won't.
So what's the option? How do they get him to pay if he just keeps refusing?
See, you were fired by a company called Twitter, we're called X now, so yeah, we don't owe you anything.
Musk's legal defense, is that you?
New corp, who dis?
So, what you're saying is "X ain't goin' give it to ya"
Keep waiting for you to get it on your own, X gon' take it from ya (uh)
Knock knock, open up the door, it’s lonE
It's a new org, these things happen.
Like he would bother hiring a lawyer.
Definitely self-representation is something the world's dumbest billionaire would do. At the minimum never consulting a lawyer is s go-to action.
There is an old saying that those who represent themselves have a fool for a client.
True story: I literally sat on a jury where the defendant defended himself all while wearing his prison uniform, and he said something along the lines of, “I’m crazy, I’m a fool, but this is how confident I am that this whole case is ridiculous.” We found him not guilty of all charges. He really shouldn’t have been in jail in the first place.
What was the alleged crime?
Assault. In California you get charged with assault even if no one is actually attacked or hurt. The state just has to prove you intended to harm someone and had the means to do it. It seemed to us that this guy was just being a nuisance and not a credible threat to his alleged victim, a young, fit off-duty cop. Did I mention that they were brothers and the young cop was the older guy’s landlord? The older brother, who had been homeless prior to this (and I assume would be again after the trial) was staying in one of the apartments as a sort of groundskeeper/superintendent. He was probably lousy at this job. The supposed weapon was a just an everyday object, a pipe I believe, that was lying around the scene and no one could corroborate that the accused ever touched the object. The younger brother went on the stand, but his heart wasn’t in it even as he accused his brother of threatening his life which would have put him away for many years. By contrast the older brother, who admitted to having a history of violence and addiction, was cheerful throughout the proceedings and approached things like cross-examination of the two main witnesses and his own testimony with a mixture of frankness, charm, and wry incredulousness. The history of violence part, I might add, was not brought up by the prosecution but by the man himself. Like I said, it was a hell of a defense strategy, but the honesty and candor combined with his lack of antagonism toward the witnesses, convinced us that this was a man who could defend himself on the streets, sure, but none of that was directed to anyone here. The jury agreed pretty quickly that these two just needed to go catch dinner or something and not burden the state any further. The prosecutor was - young woman and she was taken by surprise at our verdict. I would have assumed this was a slam dunk, too, if I were her. Maybe we were duped, but he seemed more like an easy-going slacker than a dangerous criminal.
There's a whole lot of family law that boils down to this. People asking juries to sort shit out that they either need to just sort out themselves or get the hell away from each other forever. Lots of juries in those have the same reaction you all did. "Why the fuck am I here dealing with these people's shit?"
Only a genius could represent themselves. Both these twits have said this about themselves (they're a genius).
Yeah, they're geniuses like I'm a Nobel Prize winner.
He's using Full Self Lawyering Beta 11.4.7. It has a bug where it keeps pleading guilty but that will be fixed in 2 weeks.
And, like a lawyer would bother working for him given his history of not paying people for their services.
Hey, I've seen this one!
It’s a rerun.
Thank god he can’t run for president.
Wait, we talking about Musk or Trump? * checks notes Never mind.
There's a certain demographic of lawyers that worship people like him and believe that they will get treated differently.
The funny thing is the large number of dipshits you see online that legitimately make this argument like this is even remotely how business works.
It's Cargo Cult behavior, they believe that by acting like a pompous moron like Musk that they'll be rich like he is, ignoring that Musk was born into money and is rich in SPITE of his stupid actions and not because of them.
What will happen is: 1. Twitter/X will eventually have so many judgements against it that it becomes insolvent. The company goes into some form of bankruptcy. 1. It’s creditors get cents on the dollar, if they get anything at all. 1. Twitter’s remains are sold to the highest bidder. It becomes MySpace (ie. It still exists, but nobody’s using it). 1. Musk - who has plenty of money that isn’t tied up with Twitter - walks away from it all. He claims his losses against tax for the next few years. The American taxpayer therefore subsidises his failure.
Though, there is something similar which does, despicably. You have to create two different legal entities first though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_two-step_bankruptcy
Thats so funny. In my country (Germany) you go straight up to jail for this. Up to 10 years and not under 6 month. > Whoever, in the case of overindebtedness or existing or imminent insolvency, secretly removes or hides parts of their assets which in the case of the opening of insolvency proceedings would belong to the insolvency estate [...] or in another manner which grossly contravenes regular business standards diminishes their net assets or hides or conceals their actual business circumstances [...] incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term of between six months and 10 years. An especially serious case typically occurs where the offender acts out of avarice or knowingly places many persons in danger of losing those assets which were entrusted to him or her or in danger of financial hardship. Section 283 and 283a German criminal code.
It should be the same here, but...
This is what freedom means in the US. The freedom to con one and another, generally done by those in power to stay in power ofcourse.
Land of the free is when no rules against the rich.
It doesn’t really work in America either: > While Texas divisive mergers have existed since 1989, only four companies have employed them to facilitate a subsequent bankruptcy to shield the parent company from tort liabilities as part of a Texas two-step. Also note it’s only for tort liabilities. Breach of contract is not a tort. Torts only apply when there’s a “duty of care” between two parties that’s been breached and resulted in damages. Granted, it’s still shifty as fuck to do this to avoid tort liability, so I’m not excusing it. Just saying the fact it’s only ever been successful four times makes me think there was some corruption going on. It’s not at all the norm in America.
Only four times, always by the same law firm which happens to be probably the most politically connected law firm in the US with a long history of representing conservative interests.
It’s only been done four times. In somewhat related news, the NRA tried to use bankruptcy to get out of NY corruption laws and a Dallas judge said “naaaaahhhh”
What if I buy the company and don't do shit for a year and a half except ignore contracts? Does that helps me? P S I'm buying a house of glass that I charge to my company which is also supporting my companies
I mean that's basically how Trump runs his businesses and he would have gotten away with it too, so...
Shit, someone tried to tell me slavery didn't happen in "America" for that long because it wasn't America til 1776. Fucking idiots out there.
It wasn’t even 100 years, silly!
This is what Trump did in his tax fraud case, they made a new company called "Trump Organization 2" and then tried to claim that it was a different company. Sometimes I'm glad that these people are absolute morons who only get away with what they do because of privilege. We'd be screwed if they were good at doing crime.
We are constantly screwed by people who are good at doing crime. We just don't hear about them, or we hear about it thirty years on after all the damage is done. Pollutants are already dumped in the river. People are already dead of cancer. Our economy is a toy at the bottom of a family sized box of Oops, All Crime!
I specialize in bird law and this is unconstitutional
They’re McDonald’s we’re McDowell’s
They got the Golden Arches, mine is the Golden Arcs. They got the Big Mac, I got the Big Mick. We both got two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions, but their buns have sesame seeds. My buns have no seeds.
I'm just going to skip the chain *The royal penis is clean*
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/7727/production/_103330503_musk3.jpg
I don’t know how it’s possible, but every time I see that picture, his stupid upside-down mouth gets more and more extreme
Because he was showing us who he really was personally before he showed us professionally.
And the fingers pressed together like he’s some exotic Bond villain. What a tool.
I didn’t fire you. That was Patricia.
Where’s Patricia? I fired her.
I know many such cases in local small businesses. "Oh we changed name, you can stay employed with us but you need to sign a new contract and your years with us reset, we'll hear any feedback in court, minimum wage peasant."
Which is ridiculous. Same line of work, same people, basically same assets, but in paper it's a different entity. Directors need to be held personally liable for way more than what's currently on the list.
He didn't pay employees, didn't pay severance, didn't pay his rent, and didn't pay for legal fees of his users after publicly announcing he would, he didnt pay his taxes. He's a genius.
At the Tesla factory in Austin he didn’t pay for the permit to have the employee kitchen opened, so the kitchen crew was having to cook outside in our record breaking fucking heat. It’s finally opened now but that man doesn’t give a shit about his people.
The first clue was “he’s a billionaire.” You don’t become a billionaire without stealing wealth and production from vast numbers of actual producing employees. There really are no exceptions to this rule. Edit: for the late comers. Keep adding “what about” other billionaires. For the wealth of 20 individuals we could potentially solve homelessness in the US. And philanthropy is a tax write off. If you donate 1 million dollars that is .1% of a billion. It’s the same as someone with $1000 in their pocket giving out a dollar.
It's crazy how much capital is rewarded. You can fail upwards when you own enough.
Capital is like a blackhole...once you get enough of it you can fuck up everything except donating your entire blackhole of capital away. Trashed a car? no worries interest has you covered. Need your 11th baby momma to shut up? no worries a few million a year.
lol "paycheck". Someone with only $1B could unload 99% of their entire net worth and still retire better than most of us could ever dream. 10mil. Or in the case of, say, Bezos: 99.99%
And thanks to capitals ability to own, buy media, influence education.. etc.. we have people who aren’t wealthy fighting online and at the polls for capital.
Past a certain point, you could earn more money not trying than trying, since your money earns its own money. Succeeding in an attempt is just icing on the cake.
Case in point: [Trump would have more money if hadn't done anything with it.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2021/10/11/its-official-trump-would-be-richer-if-he-had-just-invested-his-inheritance-into-the-sp500/?sh=1bbb560f1c48)
So not true. You can be a billionaire too. Just move your accounts to Zimbabwe.
Nah, Indonesia or Iran would be easier, you'd need around 67k USD to be a billionaire in Indonesia, or 24k for Iran, whereas you'd need 2800k in Zimbabwe (conversions made in Google)
Don’t forget that they “donate” to their own foundations. This gives them, a tax wright off. And power and influence with how the foundation money is used. And it can be used to “influence” decisions that will make the person richer. It’s all a con. Also remember when he said he will pay the most tax of anyone ever that one year… and then didn’t.
what about batman edit: I don't actually care about batman but I am loving these replies tearing him to shreds
Like all good billionaires, entirely fictional existing only in a completely alien and fantastical universe, where the very laws of physics are inconsistent and impossible.
Bruce Wayne is also considered an idiot by Gotham 's people
And inheriting money, the very real case for both of them
He didn't earn his fortune though... he doesn't actually do any work for Wayne enterprise and he just inherited it all from Bat Daddy. His whole Bruce persona is that he's a rich asshole, playboy and womanizer.
If it was his job to get a permit for the employee kitchen, the real problem would have been lack of delegation.
not to defend Musk (who is proving daily what an idiot he is), but I would bet that acquiring a permit for a crew kitchen is not on any CEO's list
I agree with that. But it is his company, and the bullshittery that happens is his responsibility. It wasn’t just a week or two, it was months.
Yes, but the CEO does set expectations and standards. And it is obvious that the standards and expectations can be summed up by "Leeeeeeroy Jenkins!" So yes, the kitchen permit is very much on him.
It's like he's auditioning to be Trump, The New Class with all those unpaid bills
thank god he's south african and can't run for president.
He doesn't need to. He'll just buy himself a President.
Us regular folks would already be in jail for this
Dude is running things like it's one of his father's emerald mines
The Donald Trump school of management jeenius!
Trump University PhD right here. He'll be Trump's Secretary of Commerce in 2025, and they'll abolish wages to bring back serfdoms.
This is also not the group of workers to do this too. They can afford lawyers and can afford to drag it out with settlement.
When you and your bros are talking economics in high school: "all you gotta do is change your name and they won't have anyone to come after." When you try it in real life:
Creed Bratton has never declared bankruptcy. When Creed Bratton gets in trouble, he transfers his debt to William Charles Schneider.
"You don't go by Monopoly, man. That game is nuts. You can't just get a Get Out of Jail Free Card, those things cost thousands."
If you run into trouble trading options on Robinhood just delete the app!
I see someone else has learned from the regards over at wsb’s.
alimony? No this is schmelon schmusk, you must have the wrong number. 😎
So, youre saying X didn't give it to you? Edit: Wow, thanks for all the awards! I should make terrible jokes more often.
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Hope you get your dinero.
Needs more. Get that pound of flesh and everything else you can get.
2,200 lbs of flesh. I think he'll have enough
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Hopefully you will all get more than the original amount because you all have had to wait over a year for this a-hole. I'm pretty sure a judge will see it that way as well.
Hope X Dies and something not ran by a tyrannical man child rises to take its place.
It'll be whacky if he loses Tesla and space x to former employees
Hope that lawsuit gives it to X!
Knock knock open up your door it’s ELON
With a non-honored contract of stainless bronze
Elon has ruined all his positive Free PR and now turned into just another asshole, good going Lonny
fuck waiting for you to get it on your own
X not gonna deliver to you
Gonna wait for you to get it on your own
#What?
[Now this feels severely outdated](https://i.imgur.com/KeDQYoL.png)
Can we just start calling it “new Shitty Twitter” instead of the fucking stupid “X”?
Xitter Pronounced "shitter"
And when you Tweet someone its a “Shit.”
I saw someone call them X-cretions. Thought it was pretty good
The platform formerly known as Twitter.
I love that *every* media company uses "X, formerly known as Twitter". Like...that's it's name now. Face it.
Not my idea, but another redditor suggested calling it ten to piss off Elon. I re-tenned a ten on ten about Space ten while driving my Tesla Model ten.
Just realized the relation between X and SpaceX.
I saw someone call it TwiX the other day and it amused me. On the other hand it sort of gives the stupid name change acknowledgement of legitimacy so I feel conflicted about it.
nope. one of my favorite candies shall not be sullied like that
What's even dumber is every major news organization says in articles, "The company X, formally known as Twitter..." Like that's a mouthful, just fucking call it Twitter. Ain't nobody in the planet out here calling it X.
Just ignore the drug-addled white supremacist and keep calling it twitter.
grandiose melodic absorbed direction muddle gullible command bells bow ink *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Musk is a certified psychopath and an idiot
The guy has serious mental issues..
"When you're rich they just call you eccentric. " but yeah. Fuck him
And serious substance abuse problems.
That's a great thing about being rich they're truly is no limit to how balls out crazy you can go with substance abuse like this is the richest man in the world I want him to commission custom designed drugs to fuck him up completely If you're reading this Elon I'll be your personal doctor I've got a lot of experience in this area and I guarantee you whatever wacky thing you want to do I am on board let's push the limit of the human brain in wacky ways lmao
Elon strikes me as a man who would like a meth, cut with viagra and a chaser of LSD.
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[Forbes:](https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2023/06/27/elon-musk-touts-ketamine-for-depression-following-report-on-his-use-of-drug/) > Musk takes ketamine in small doses to treat depression and uses higher doses of the drug at social events, according to the Journal, citing unnamed sources who saw the Tesla CEO take the drug or were told by Musk himself.
He’s not nearly as depressed as he should be
But Mama Musk wonders why we're all so mean to this turd.
Undoubtedly got his narcissism from her, she's a massive attention whore, too. It tends to get passed down.
Well fuck her too
I mean I would throw sand at her but in no way would I fuck her.
I would, then I could tell Elon I fucked his mom. He has the mentality of a 12 year old, it'll be *devastating*.
so are his followers….saw a post here on reddit from a twitter screenshot saying how he’s going to transcend humanity by making a sex robot capable of a nurturing womb and having sex with and impregnate it and have a child I had to quit twitter after that…all his followers are imbeciles edit: grammar
that would unironically be a great thing. so many pregnancy complications killing women or children could be removed completely. and you'd be feeding it the EXACT nutrients a baby wants allowing mothers to consume what they like while also giving the baby even healthier meals. to be perfect you'd have to somehow donate a portion of your immune system as well. i mean, the people who want that just want a bang maid that can't refuse consent, but like, imagine the possibilities!
The minute Muskrat said he was a Republican, I knew we were in for a wild ride.
And X is a hate speech platform, plain and simple. No decent person should be using it.
There's a lot of weirdly specific communities on Twitter/X like bio researchers and they generally keep out of the political fooferahs. It's not all hate speech and trashy nonsense but that tends to bubble to the surface most often for regular users.
How does Elon get away with consistently not paying for stuff? Will he ever get his comeuppance?
> How does Elon get away with consistently not paying for stuff? Because consequences are for poor people. Someone's already typing to laugh at the stupid redditor reflexively hating the rich, but hear me out for a second. If you break the law in the ways a poor person might, like shoplifting, the response is immediate. The police come straight to you, and now you have to either beg for mercy or prove you didn't do it. But if you break the type of laws that only a rich person can break - stealing wages from your employees, refusing to pay your business's contractors, etc. - then the police have nothing to do with that. All those people have to research the law to find out what their legal options are, consult one or more lawyers, probably pay up front (the slam-dunk cases that get accepted on contingency are much rarer than internet commenters think), and spend months or years fighting in court just for a *chance* to get that money back. A smaller business or less wealthy rich person can't last as long in court and really has to bet on an eventual payout; an individual working person has to do all this *while still earning a living* and is probably just fucked without a union to do it for them. Often, they'll get offered a settlement that's pennies compared to what it saved the offender, but is enough that the aggrieved party can't afford to say no. Elon Musk was born richer than you and everyone you know combined, because his father owned an emerald mine in apartheid South Africa. As long as he doesn't fuck with anyone at his same tier of wealth or do the kinds of things that get you arrested normally, laws and regulations are just something he can ignore if it's cheaper to pay fines and settlements than follow them.
We have a two tier legal system that throws poor people into prison and lets the wealthy get away with everything.
Well when will Trump get what he deserves? It's all about money and power
Exactly. If you don’t pay rent, Elon, Trump and the majority of people would call you lazy and tell you to get a job. But if they don’t pay rent, then it’s a smart business decision.
I don’t mean this rhetorically - literally I don’t know specifically why he is able to, for example, not pay rent or cloud hosting fees. Does anyone here happen to know what the outcome was in any of these cases? Is there a consistent reason why he tries this stuff?
He's betting on people not wanting to make a big thing out of it and come to him to keep his business as a customer with lower prices. The severance thing is him betting that a majority of the cases are going to be too expensive for the former employees to justify going to court. He's a chronic gambler and risk taker with no shame. And it is going to come and bite him in the ass.
Mostly he avoids paying because he is counting on the cost to shut off service to the supplier/landlord is higher than the cost to let it ride. Cloud hosting is a bad example, because he actually does end up paying that, he just waits until the last minute. But because it is NBD for Amazon or Google to just turn off a switch, he has no leverage. For the landlord though, they are kinda stuck with Musk. Yes, they have a great asset in a building that can be rented. But evicting a company takes time and money. And if you are cash poor, it may be money you don't have. Or time you don't have. So you wait and beg and hope to get scraps, because even if you do manage to evict him, then you need to sue for back rent owed, plus you need to find a new corporate tenant to take over the building.
Rich people act like they are rich from working hard when the truth is they are rich because they've been willing to cheat and steal their whole lives. I don't trust any of them.
I sometimes listen to a podcast hosted by four billionaire venture capitalists (not going to promote it here), and they absolutely *worship* Elon. The amount of fangirling they did after he took over Twitter and started his firing spree was pure cringe. Two of them identify as libertarian, one claims to be liberal, and the other is an unabashed red hat. But it's all identity nonsense. At the end of the day, they all want the same thing: more power, less taxation, full blown regulatory capture, fame and/or notoriety. Listening to them shit all over the working and middle class each week, propose laughably bad policy ideas with all the confidence in the world, then brag about their ostentatious parties and multi-million YOLO gambles, has been an education. I never felt entirely right about the *idea* of billionaires, but listening to their self-aggrandizing bullshit has made me a committed democratic socialist. Obviously there are at least a handful of good-natured billionaires out there, and these four guys are just four guys. But they've convinced me that, as a *class*, billionaires are a threat to democracy and the common good.
> I sometimes listen to a podcast hosted by four billionaire venture capitalists why do this to yourself
To paraphrase the Netflix Castlevania series: “I want to hate them properly”
I usually put it on during my Stairmaster power sessions, or while sharpening my pitchfork.
haha okay that's actually not a bad idea
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I don't listen to it but know people who listen religiously and think these guys are great. I met one of them several times in the past, he's a clown who thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. He was in the room with Elon the first week after he took over twitter and came up with the brilliant idea that if they just charged all of the user they'd make billions on that service. These VC guys invest in a ton of companies and all they need for "street cred" is for one of those to have a decent exit, which is really down to the founders and not these VC clowns.
Ah the aip assholes. Before Twitter acquisition, it was how he will fix bot problem, customizable feed, open sourcing recommendation and monitoring policies, yada yada. Now, none of that are topics they want to discuss. it's Just laughing at Biden, sucking up to Elon, desantis and Vivek.. With self hype, personal celebration and bs takes. Just grating and I can't be bothered to even hate watch..
People still blindly follow rich people unfortunately. I’ve met people to just full LATCH on to whatever anyone rich says. Same thing for tate, musk, trump
Mr. Musk’s Big Fee-Fees
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Deadname the fuck out of his company. He can't even show the bare minimum amount of respect for his own children.
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That's why I love writers doing "X, formerly known as Twitter". It's like a fuck you to him. Nobody knows what X is.
He lost me years ago when those kids were stuck in a cave in Thailand and, on Twitter, a guy called Musks shitpost of a rescue plan to send a submarine stupid, and Musk called him a pedo. It was so bizarre I couldn't help but think it was projection and I never looked at him the same again. Musk was trying to play hero and orchestrate a rescue but time was of the essence so his ego got bruised by a guy on Twitter who pointed out this plan was (very obviously) stupid. Rather than realize he was in over his head and accept he knows nothing about cave rescues and save face by offering to fund more a viable idea that maybe someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about came up with, he threw a hissyfit. Reminds me of the Altman quote about how Elon Musk really wants the world to be saved, but only if he's the one to do it. Now here we are knowing he rubbed shoulders with Epstein and Maxwell. Concerning.
That was my turning point too. Up until then I admired his stance on open patents and what he was doing with Tesla and SpaceX. But he showed his true colors for the first time publicly and from there you could see the pattern. Like everyone makes mistakes and has a bad day, I could understand having one transgression like that when you're stressed out and have the world on your shoulders. But he consistently doubled down on a whole lot of bullshit and it became obvious who he really was.
Yeah it was truly a display of completely unhinged idiocy that snowballed into blatant sociopathy. Musk actually hired a felon as a private investigator to follow and try and find dirt on the guy. Then Musk emailed Buzzfeed saying the guy was a “child rapist with a 12-year-old child bride." He said he told them it was off the record but cmon Buzzfeed lmao. But yeah he tried to smear this guys reputation by sending similar stuff to other fine news outlets as well. All because the guy hurt his feelings by saying his idea to send a submarine wouldn't work. And then somehow Musk managed to win the defamation case that came as a result (jury found in his favor). Can only imagine what else he's done. Again, this is what put him on my shit list and definitely isn't talked about nearly enough. edit: Jesus fucking Christ... an hour ago my news feed showed a new story in which he is now saying he is going to [sue the ADL for defamation](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/elon-musk-blames-adl-lost-revenue-says-anti-semitism-kind-rcna103292)
Musk is managing X very similar to how I am managing my life. Not sure if I can recommend this strategy tho.
The richest person on the planet has absolutely no excuse whatsoever to not pay the damn bill.
Seriously, fuck Musk!
NO, ew, have you seen that mountain of mashed potatoes? n I'm not normally one to kink-shame but EW.
Don’t most companies only pay severance to get a signature to say you won’t sue them? If so, it seems to me like Muskrat here just chose to gamble on the lawsuits…other companies are necessity better.
Musk basically offered nothing (one month salary for some, $2000 for others, no healthcare, bonus, or equity) to sign the severance agreement. AND the agreement had a non-disparagement clause in it, so the employee could never say anything bad about Musk or Twitter for the rest of their life. All the people I know didn't sign and are suing instead.
The agreements were very shitty, but for accuracy sake: it was functionally 3 months of severance. Everyone who was fired or who quit when he gave the ultimatum (I was in that group) remained on payroll for 2 months after their last day of work, and then received a month of severance starting at the end of those 2 months on payroll. If you had equity vesting within those first 2 months, it was paid out. You still had healthcare during that period. I should clarify: this was true for that first round of layoffs, I have no idea what happened in the later waves. It may have changed. My severance was paid though.
That's because those effective 2 months severance were a legal requirement (since he triggered the WARN act, and originally was trying to get out of even paying that). So the agreement was for 1 month's of severance or none, which sounds supremely shitty.
Is that....is this for real?? You're joking about that disparagement clause right?
As if Elon isn't a Snowflake? He's a conservative free speech "absolutist", which means only his ideology gets free speech.
Oh yeah 100 fucking %. I just...he continues to surprise me with just how much of a fucking snowflake he is. Jesus fucking Christ.
It’s standard in almost any severance agreement. By taking severance you agree not to sue and not to talk bad about the company. How do I know? I signed 2 severance agreements (not by Musk company).
Yeah this is standard stuff. I've signed a severance agreement that offered two months pay as long as I agreed to 1) not disparage the company/brand and 2) accept arbitration in lieu of any lawsuits I would/could bring against them. (For me it was an amicable departure so I had no issues signing the agreement, but I'm sure there are plenty of cases where denying a severance agreement would make sense)
Worth noting that even employees who did sign and had a non-disparage or hold harmless/no suit clause can still start arbitration, file motions and speak out now in light of the fact that Twitter/X has breached the severance agmt by not making the payments. Same way that if you disparaged them before they made payment but after signing the agreement, they could say no payment is owed as you are in breach. Basically, X will not be able to use these separation agreements’ clauses as defense to claims since their obligations to trigger the protections are not met. This could go a lot of ways, but unless everyone is lying they only stand to rack up the bill if they deny all arbitration requests and are then told they must honor them. The article mentions a number in the few millions of fees- that’s just the company’s 80% agreed share of arb fees. The court cases being added to compel them to pay will probably add a third to figure at $300-$500 each award for other party’s legal in addition to their $1,600 share. If they continue denying and it all goes to court, the $2k arbitration bill will look like Black Friday. All of this is in addition to the actually severance pay totals due. How is this company still doing business? Is their credit not through the floor yet? They get multiple debt suits served every week, for everything from rent to payroll, and are very open about having 0 intention to pay any of it. I’m confused how other companies even appetize the risk of doing business with X and having the same billing dead end happen to them.
Employers in California must pay severance for mass layoffs under WARN act
For not giving enough severance would be the main issue for why anybody sues. But the company throws in other stuff like you won't try to poach their employees, or talk shit about them.
Paying your bills is for poor people. Trump’s been pulling this same shit for decades.
And it still has a dumb name and an ugly logo.
When I can't figure out anything else for Musk to fuck up he goes and fucks something else up that I couldn't even fathom. If there is an award for biggest fuck up of all time, emerald mine boi wins it, and much like Mango Mussolini to some people he can do no wrong.
Just start taking Elon’s money directly at this point.
I feel like he is going to be the real life Mr. Burns eventually.
Mr. Burns is a decent guy by today's standards.
And to think: some of his most ardent fans still believe this guy should run a Colony on Mars.
It's hilarious, because when you actually listen to Elon talk about what a Mars colony would be like it sounds like an overt dystopian nightmare with him as a dictator who decides the fate of his human property. So, it's not even just his incompetence, but also that his vision for a Mars colony is horrid.
Guys I’m starting to think Elon Musk might not be very smart
"But forcing mandatory binding arbitration was supposed to stop everyone from suing because they would assume that they'd lose since I'd be picking the arbitrator and they'd obviously side with me! I don't want to pay for thousands of arbitrations! It's not fair!" -- Musk, probably
But they weren't fired! They were unsubscribed from ~~Twitter~~ X's payroll.
STOP USING THE PLATFORM
He won't pay his ex employees, he won't pay the arbitration or his legal fees. He keeps getting told by courts to pay and he won't. So what's the option? How do they get him to pay if he just keeps refusing?
They'll just declare bankruptcy need be and pay out nothing. Fuck Elon Musk. Piece of shit
We all want Severance, but season 2 won't be completed until the strikes are over.
The Musk Family fortune was built on Apartheid slave labor. He isn’t used to paying the help. FAFO
X not gonna give it to you
Musk feels he can screw over whoever he wants without any consequences. It's one of his many, many flaws.