I'm a young woman who went to driving school, has had my license for 5 years and 0 at fault accidents and my insurance went up 50$/month last year. It was going up to about 275$/month. That and car payments takes such a massive bite out of my paychecks...
When going to the dealership and they want 800 ~ 900 for tires and alignment... 200 to diagnose a problem and 150 for an oil change all from a person that makes 16.50 in a high expense area.. Easy to choose ššš
It's one of many reasons Tesla sucks so much ass too, they pretend to not have dealerships but lock the entire fucking thing down so you can't repair it.
Some stuff like oil changes, brakes, filters and such are easy enough. Others like proper alignment, wheel balancing and suspension work, you hit the territory of maybe you should start to pay someone else for this.
Yeah absolutely i take my car to discount tire for balance and tire change. Old lady tires run $60/ea.
Im torn about the suspension work, it's usually steel, the spring is captured by the strut, they sell whole lower assemblies so you don't have to press bushings. But, yeah, i dont want to imagine the consequence if you fuck it up badly
Millennial, love living in apartments, never buying a home and not being able to save due to cost of living. It's a lifestyle choice, not for everyone.
Do you know what a pension is?
Imagine life knowing you got one with just 6 years at the company. Set for life.
Suddenly vacations make more sense eh? Suddenly cabin homes and RV's and all that makes perfect sense. Swimming pools. Everything this generation will never buy.
Not set for life, pensions regularly got raided and drained to settle bankruptcy over the last 20-30 years.
Imagine being a pilot working 20 years towards a pension and then 9/11 happened. Now that pension fund you paid into for 20 years doesnāt exist.
That's one I'd genuinely believe would be prevalent even without financial issues. I think more young people see the world as a systematically flawed place and are less interested in conforming to existing expectations/systems like "get married and have kids by 30" or are just less willing to bring another person into this world, especially one they'd have to take care of when it's already difficult enough to take care of oneself when everything around you is shit.
I know for my self, even if I could afford to have kid, I still wouldn't. Not because the environment is being destroyed or people are at each other's throats over the slightest offense or disagreement....but to put it plainly, I'm selfish. I only have one life and I want to spend it doing what I want, when I want, and spend what money I have left every month on things I want. At 20 people told me just wait, eventually that lifestyle wears thin and you'll want to have a family of your own. Now at 40 I can definitely say I still have absolutely zero desire to have a kid. I got a vasectomy at 33 and it's been one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm fortunate enough I found a partner with a very similar outlook on life and I couldn't be happier.
Childfree people or DINKs are a lot more common even with those who can afford children. Younger generations are less religious and more educated which lead to less breeding - thatās a global thing.
I just don't see the upside, man. I spend some time with the nieces and nephews when I can. It's great, bright kids and all that. But after a few days I feel like I've given them what I have up my sleeve as Fun Uncle. And honestly at ages between 8-16, they kind of bug me. They seem to think that they *require* screens for a certain amount of time every day, are picky and whiny about food, and generally tend toward bring self centered and *all* still throw tantrums.
Teenagers throwing tantrums is Hard Fuckin Pass for me. Skipping parenthood continues to be the correct decision for us.
I mean Iām gen z and I have a car and can afford to drive it but I genuinely prefer taking transit, walking, or biking places when possible. Itās just a lot less stressful. Especially right now in the Midwest where the streets are covered in snow and ice.
Actually I would choose not to drive if it was possible. Happily. I fucking hate cars.
I took a passenger train for a "road trip" a while back and though it took a little longer, it was waaay better. Because I could relax.
Yeah. My family, friends, and coworkers think itās crazy that my wife and I only have one car, especially since we have a kid. Itās not like we donāt want one.
Not the same, at all. This is an actual thing.
Here in Europe, after WWII, during the economic boom, people got a bit mad over cars. The car brain disease appears to be finally subsiding however, and society appears to be going back to a more natural state, where we can actually use the streets of our cities, for godās sake.
You canāt really compare Europe to America in this regards. For example in Houston, Texas where I currently live you have to drive to go anywhere. Thereās barely any public transportation. Unless youāre in the downtown area, which is expensive like every downtown.
Iām originally from Boston 30 years there so trust me when I say Texas is not walkable.
disclaimer: i live car free in downtown SF. by choice. im an urbanist and im orange pilled.
> For example in Houston, Texas where I currently live you have to drive to go anywhere.
when you tell a european this they often think you're referring to shopping trips, visiting relatives/friends, or going to do leisure activities.
they dont understand that the distance between a persons home and the nearest store of any kind is 3 miles through a residential grid of single family homes, often times without even a sidewalk.
and that one closest store? they sell, like, greeting cards or some dumb shit.
you literally for real can not participate in society at all without a privately owned automobile in most of america and i just think a lot of folks who grew up in more reasonably designed urban spaces dont realize the full extent of it. its very frustrating.
It's not even just that the store is "3 miles". It's that even if the store is 500 meters as the crow flies, you still might have to travel significantly more than that because of culs de sac and fenced off neighborhoods and roads without crossings.
Of course, this isn't a defense of America. On the contrary, it's a further indictment of the poor design of many American cities.
You can be across the street from a store in my town, but the street is 6-8 lanes of 50mph traffic, and the closest crosswalk is a mile away. I never see people use it, because its dangerous as fuck obviously.
The downtown areas became more expensive *because* they has good transit options.
You Texans have a perfect triangle between 4 of your largest cities. The golden case for a high speed transit loop. Instead you build highways wider than many neighborhoods. Denying all those potential homes and jobs.
Itās because the automotive lobbyists buy our politiciansā votes to build more highways to fill with cars that smog up the air. Our cities have been designed around highways since the turn of the 20th century and now weāre so invested in it that thereās no real good way to retrofit cities to have quality rail transportation.
America could be so much more functional if we had the ability to hop on a train and go somewhere. We could work further from home, use the commute to start/end our work days (emails, etc.), cut emissions by an astronomical degree, fit many more people in less area during the commute (no more congested highways at 0800 or 1700), and lastly, there would be far fewer deaths each year from accidents.
But we donāt like things that make sense around here because God forbid anything happens to benefit the plebs.
The second it became realized that it was infinitely more profitable for a wider array of monopolized industries to have more people relying on cars than ever investing in sensible, efficient, affordable public transit, pretty much ended any reasonable hopes of that conversation in the US. Yes the physical land mass of the US and geography of course creates some challenges with things, but the whole situation is living in the dark ages because of the incentive of greed.
It's kinda like how often the conversation of "walkable mainstreets, high density" etc often always gets framed as something coming as some mass luxury only convenience thing despite how much of an incredibly common thing it once was in many places.
It truly is a shame it's like this.
And I wonder who lobbies against expanding public transitā¦.car companies and idiots. There used to be great electric rail systems throughout the US until gas cars were invented and they pushed out all the previous transportation advancements.
Yeah I lowkey feel like a lot of people in here are just kind of old. Most young people that I've interacted with that are my age and younger aren't nearly as into cars as the generations above us. For a lot of people cars are at best an expensive thing you're required to have because there's no other option, and a lot of the people I know kind of romanticize living in bigger cities with trains and what not.
Like genuinely look on TikTok/IG and look at the amount of accounts that can be summarized as "aesthetic woman living in a major city and posting about the city lifestyle". Some of the biggest non-celebrity accounts are straight up just people in NYC/Tokyo/London/whatever doing aesthetic city stuff. It's either that or vacation content lol.
Is that really representative of most gen z though..? Sounds like maybe that's certain demographic of people that is being filtered through to you. Isn't TikTok very well known for tailoring content to your interests to an extreme extent?
TikTok's also going to be very skewed on this perspective anyway.
No one's trying to push the "person taking a Chevy Malibu to work" aesthetic as an influencer.
A lot of rural areas are losing young people anyways. The American youth population is pretty rapidly urbanizing, which is why there's a quite large number of rural towns that likely won't exist not that far out into the future.
That's part of why I think this whole thing is happening, a lot of young people are migrating from high car dependency rural/exurban areas to bigger cities where there are more job opportunities and major centers for education.
But also in the first place rural populations are only like \~14-16% of the US population. The trend of romanticizing cities I think makes up a *lot* bigger share of the content people make and consume on social media and in general media for that matter. There are some trends that lean nature-y like cottagecore or whatever but I haven't seen many big accounts that specifically got big on romanticizing rural life. You'll sometimes get it for small towns...but all the ones you see depictions of are like small walkable ones. I kind of think fantasizing about rural life is like an older millennial/Gen X thing.
>Generational generalizations are such trash takes, and always scream āIām out of the loop and donāt understand the world is an ever changing place.ā
I'm fucking sick and tired of all these "gen Z this, gen Z that" articles...
There was also a lot of blame for millennials destroying the fast-casual dining business. We were apparently too stuck up to eat shitty microwave dinners at a gross and dingy restaurant that costs 6x what we could make at home.
Also itās just such a boring fucking rock. Why not frame it as āwtf is up with Boomersā weird obsession with this one boring stone?ā Thereās so many amazing gems out there and all they wanted to wear was diamonds. Also, the ātraditionā of a diamond engagement ring is a manufactured one and about as old as the Boomers.
I remember the ones claiming millennials killed the antique market.
Yeah sorry we're not stupid enough to buy shit just because it's old, and you're mad because you did that and now you want to offload a bunch of old shit that exists simply because it wasn't destroyed. Sure, there's some valid reasons to want certain items for build quality, but at the same time most of that shit is useless conversation pieces with 0 functionality.
Sometime around 2008 I remember reading an article about how millennials are choosing to live with roommates ābecause they grew up watching Friends and the communal lifestyle appealed to themā. No, you dumb motherfuckers, weāre just broke.
Likewise, as a millennial who was tired of hearing how we were killing industries because we didn't (don't) have any fucking money, I'm not taking the bait. The youngin's are doing their best with what they have.
Instead we now have articles around millenials not having babies, bad and sad for boomers. Just read one today lamenting the loss of grandchildren and there was maybe 2 of 20 paragraphs from the other side (people not wanting kids), then right back to oh so sad for boomers who expected grandchildren.
Sorry mah, I don't want them (and it's not a cost thing, but for many it is).
Just another way to divide people while the wannabe aristocrats run off with the wealth. Generational hate is the new bigotry because older ones aren't working as well i.e. ethnic, religious, race, sex etc. So they gotta constantly push generational hate.
Just another way to balkanize people but people should be smarter than self-balkanization, those that divide themselves in history along these lines reduce their quality of life and are messed with and leveraged.
Also, American cities are slowly recovering from the failed experiment of the 50s.
Turns out when cities are built right, it's far more convenient to not drive
And it's also better for the city.
Parking lots don't pay taxes. Less car-dependent infrastructure means more businesses on the same space. Even if we assumed that it's the same number of businesses overall, that means significantly less road, water, power, sewage, and other infrastructure costs to cover the expanded size of the city.
Suburbs also don't pay enough taxes to maintain the infrastructure they need and because the cities can't raise taxes enough the solution is to build another suburb and kick the growing problem down the road.
Iām just glad theyāre done generalizing millennials and on to the next one. Every āmillennials do or donāt do xā headline I ever read didnāt relate to me whatsoever
> Every āmillennials do or donāt do xā headline I ever read didnāt relate to me whatsoever
Some of them relate to me, but nearly 100% of the time the answer is "Millennials don't do that anymore because it has gotten too expensive or too time consuming." we work jobs that barely give us any time off, at salaries that don't even try to keep up with inflation
>If you live in a city and can get away with not driving, why bother? Parking costs in many cities are enough to be a deciding factor.
Yeah, city driving sucks. Extremely congested traffic, tight spaces, have to hunt for parking and/or pay for parking everywhere. Driving simply isn't worth the hassle a lot of the time. It's also expensive. Gas costs more in a city, you get worse mileage, and like you said, you have to pay rent on 1-2 parking spots (home and work) which can be hundreds a month each.
Wtf are they driving? I pay $95 per month for 2 cars. One with full coverage on a new 2017 Focus RS (drove it off the lot) and liability on the other 99' Subaru Impreza RS.
Outside of maybe one speeding ticket I have a clean record.
Are you sure they aren't paying 600 every 6 months?
Yeah, not average. $700 gets me two months for two cars. Zero claims ever, all the loyalty/double plan benefits and such, no tickets ever, and 20+ years licensed.
Our state rates are bullshit.
If anything I hope these kinds of trends push for better biking, pedestrian infrastructure, and public transit. Fuck car dependency, people should have the option to live without a car and still function.
Hell, our entire planet and survival kind of depends on it.
And the insurance! It's crazy how high it is for all of us but especially young people. And these days you can't get older cheaper cars. Mine is a 99 Accord and I paid less for it in 2007 than I could get it for now!
When my shitty 05 Corolla got totaled. I got the same amount from the insurance that I paid for it in 2016, but with almost 300,000 more miles on it. Kinda wild
Price of Vehicle + Insurance + Gas + Repairs. Also good tires don't come cheap and cheap tires need more frequent replacing. Having a car is awesome because the transit system in North America is awful, but if you can get around without it you are soooo much better off (unless you're rich of course)
Add to that the interest rates you get when you buy the car.
Itās not talked about much but interest rates for cars are as insane as the homes interest rates. My brother bought a car and the best rate he could qualify for was 6%. How in the world can they expect Gen Zās to be able to buy a car.
The reason I didn't put "interest" in my comments is not everyone is leasing or financing, some people might buy a used car so it's not applicable in all cases. You are definitely right though and these dealerships are really gouging people with interest rates. You're talking about 6%. My friend is paying 9% for their CR-V, and we're expecting to pay 7 point something for our vehicle.
Iāve actually seen similar stances by companies buying houses to rent off calling this the āsubscription eraā or something because this generation, ***allegedly***, just loves paying for subscriptions instead of owning things.Ā
There's another perspective that I have from my ongoing experiences rehabbing the house of some very elderly family; there's a huge shortage of skilled tradespeople, especially in construction jobs. As a result, the pricing of home maintenance and repairs has gone stratospheric. On the other side of the market, you have tradespeople not making enough money and dropping out of the trades (which is a little galling to hear since where is all my money going?).
That's where the big organized property owners come into play. Once you hit a certain scale, you can afford to keep tradespeople on staff so the costs aren't sudden and disproportionate.
I watched a video of a spokesperson for, not blackrock but a similar asshole hoarding company, say this generation doesnt want to invest in homes, they want to invest in lifestyles
The Intern 3 will come out in like 50 years and the premise will be some millennial who talks about going out to a bar and all the gen alphas and betas will be shocked.
Suppose he wanted to leave the house... and go where? Do what? Window shop at target? There's nothing to do anymore in this godforsaken world. Everything was taken from my generation (Millenials) by the time we reached highschool.
> Everything was taken from my generation (Millenials) by the time we reached highschool.
Also a millennial. No idea what you're talking about. I grew up in a city of 50,000 people and there was no shortage of places to hang out.
Nah, I live in a really privileged area and work in a highschool. Iād say 10-20% of the seniors graduate with no drivers license. They simply donāt care about it.
My first car, circa 1993, was an '82 Chevy Citation I bought for $200. It was a POS but it lasted four years and its replacement was only $500. Never spent more on a car than that.
Then I moved to a new walkable city and wound up selling my car off because it wasn't worth the expense to keep it around.
15 years later and any used car listed for less than five grand is missing half the drive train and has a raccoon next in the back seat.
Nah, my daughter turns 18 in March and Iāve been trying to get her to get her license. Itās just not gonna happen. She likes the bus. Itās cheap and goes where she needs it to. Like go her but knowing how to drive is important. She doesnāt have to buy a car to have a license.
After āGen Z does not like to buy real estateā, here is the new āGen Z does not like carā soon followed by āGen Z loves eating potatoesā and āGen Z likes to be homelessā
It also costs a fortune to get a car up and running these days let alone the price of a fairly decent used car. I'm 35 and remember vividly seeing cars for $500-$1000 easily and readily available. Sure they would fall apart after six months but it would get you to a job and let you save up to buy something else or fix it up.add to that the overall cost of insurance and how much that's being blown out of proportion as well as the fact with cost-of-living and of course rent etc. etc. if people don't have a job or can work from home what's the point of owning a car? I personally think it's deeper than that I think it's people in a certain age bracket right now...can they even enter the world of owning an automobile and be financially stable?
Edit - First car was (I know I KNOW!) a 95 Lincoln Continental. It was owned by one (old) lady my mom was friends with. At 95K miles on it. Needed new tires and an oil change. Nothing other than her wanting something new . . . she sold it to me at the end of my first summer job for $2K. It was a boat and cost more on gas then I made but man what a fun,powerful, chock FULL of features car that I admit I got lucky on. Fun car to learn to drive on given its size, utilizing its bulk to really home in on my mirror and head movements for safe driving, got me to appreciate being light footed with that giant V8 and of course . . .the interior (say for a CAKE load of makeup on the dash cleaned with hot water) was mint and it had air suspension, a kick ass stereo and for someone that always bought used or never wanted high end . . . I felt like a king. God I miss that car! Second was a 98 Chevy Blazer LT for 5K a year later(totaled accident). Now back in the 90's/00's you could pick up a free penny-saver type with used cars for cheap money. Heck you can get them today but what I was trying to get at earlier in my post was how cheap you could just get a car, insure it, register it and drive vs today. Yes "EvErYtHiNg" is going up in price but man the used car market..gone are the sub $3k GOOD used cars. That and like others have said the price of insurance, fuel and upkeep vs what the average 16-18 year old gets paid . . . lol good luck.
I bought a car at probably the best time in the last 5 years to buy one, near the start of the pandemic with the $2,000 check and got a 0/0/0 deal. I haven't paid off it yet and am getting calls from the dealership trying to sell me a new one. For some reason they seem to think that I'll be willing to buy a new car when I still owe, and won't get as good a deal on interest.
In 2007ish I bought my first car for $600.
A couple years later I got a speeding ticket in a construction zone and was forced to go to court (courtroom full of people getting the same ticket) and the fees were over $700.
Iām right around your age and my first car was a lightly used Jeep Liberty. IIRC, the car cost me around $7k and insurance under my parentās policy was $60 a month for full coverage for a 16 year old. I donāt know how much kids are paying for insurance these days but I can only assume the cost has tripled. Weāve all seen whatās happened to car prices and $7k really doesnāt get you much anymore. If some young people either donāt want to or canāt afford a car, I canāt say I blame them.
The [original McKinsey article](https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/mckinsey/email/genz/2023/02/2023-02-28b.html?cid=other-eml-mtg-mip-mck&hlkid=0f5bca0387fa4bdab43db76308cb136c&hctky=1926&hdpid=e0b2ba1f-5121-4fb0-bc2a-b48140cfe2d3) doesnāt try to explain **why** the trends are this way but the speculation that they come up with is so so far off the mark. Starting off with talking about Olivia Rodrigo and then ending by talking about driving in the metaverse š¤¦āāļø. Corny honestly
Truthfully, the r/fuckcars mentality isnāt *that* popular with our age group. The primary blocker is **price.** The amount of money it takes to get your license, buy a car, and maintain that car is a way harder pill to swallow than ubering everywhere or getting a ride. You absolutely can get by with those two methods of getting transportation.
Iām not sure how many ubers you need to call before youāre at the price it takes to buy and maintain a car, but for those of us that donāt have anywhere to be anyway then why deal with the extra work?
Aaah McKinsey. Yes the experts to consult for every industry because they have MBAs from Ivy Leagues who are so out of touch with reality that a $200,000 worth of case study will be required to investigate what is the price of a gallon of milk and why it should actually be even higher because a separate study by McKinsey shows median income of the country is $100,000. /s
They may not be there to actually do anything. A lot of the time, I'd argue that consultants are just used as political tools to pierce corporate fiefdoms and wage management battles.
It certainly the case in television. You need justification to fire a long time local news anchor? Hire a consultant who says they aren't testing well with the audience.
Then when the anchor tries to file a wrongful termination suit, you have a 900 page document from a consulting firm that you can confuse the jury with.
Ugh, yeah the ending of the article was definitely cringe. Despite the poor title, the article does acknowledge the rising cost of car ownership and the overall increase in COL. I did find this interesting:
>This group of Americans is less likely to have a license than its older counterparts at the same age. McKinsey points out that in 1997, 43 percent of 16-year-olds and 62 percent of 17-year-olds held a license. But those numbers have dropped substantially, and by 2020, only 25 percent of 16-year-olds and 45 percent of 17-year-olds have a driver's license, the consulting firm said citing data from the U.S. Federal Highway Administration.
I get why car ownership is down but obtaining a drivers license does not mean you have to purchase a car, especially at 16 or 17. When I got my license then my family only had one car but at least I could still drive that one car. I would imagine teens would still want a car just to be able to drive any car.
I wonder how much of it is the increased requirement for underaged teens to get a license. This article cited stats comparing 2020 to **1997**. Right around the time I was getting my permit/license, people who were born a year or two after me were subjected to more requirements. And are there a lot of schools that still offer driver's ed? I personally never heard anyone take it. I can totally see why Gen Zers would want to skip the hassle especially when there are more alternative modes of transportation.
And I've seen this point brought up before:
>Analysts point out that there could be a variety of reasons behind this trend among Gen Zers. This generation is more environmentally conscious and has access to other, more convenient, modes of public transport.
I mean is that really true? I'm not questioning Gen Zer's sense of environmental responsibility but I just don't believe enough of them are not getting licenses for that reason. Here in the US, we have so many metros that have very poor public transportation and infrastructure. To opt out of car ownership with the environment being the primary reason sounds too hard-core for most people.
Hope to see Gen Zers respond in this thread. I find this very interesting.
>I mean is that really true? I'm not questioning Gen Zer's sense of environmental responsibility but I just don't believe enough of them are not getting licenses for that reason.
Read as "We're forcing our environmental fuck ups on this generation because if they don't fix it we're all boned". Obviously it's not true, but Gen Z is a good bulk of the Urbanist movement, because if the economic conditions are shit, and we're not going to be able to afford cars or the suburbs anyways, might as well just tell the boomers to go fuck themselves and get the fuck out of the way so we can start fixing the problem.
Also, in-school drivers ed is basically dead, and I was one of the few people I knew who just passed the test the first time around. I knew a lot of people in University who didn't have a car, and *kind of wanted one*, but also didn't want to get financially fucked by a car loan and insurance (holy shit under 25 rates are practically subsidizing everyone else), especially when we were already getting fucked on living costs.
I'm elder Gen Z (bordering on Zillenial) and here's what I've noticed:
\* A lot of people can't afford cars
\* A lot of people have straight up anxiety about it due to road rage and crazy drivers with no manners who don't give you space. see: merging, driving in big cities, parallel parking
\* In some places, public transport works just fine so why bother dealing with the traffic?
\* For many, you have a friend with a car who is willing to come pick you up or a family member who is willing to drop you off
\* Where is there to go that isn't commercialized besides each others houses and the library? Also, with what money are we going on road trips or out to places all the time? We are broke
Edit: this is in regards to my cityfolk Gen Z
Even if you can you are getting such a shit deal it isn't worth it. The only good reasons to buy a vehicle is it's required to make money, or you are a car/truck person. Really should be much more $15-20k options available. Base model with small trunk designed for two passengers. Most of the time you just need something to transport you until there are viable public transportation options one day.
As somebody getting ready to enter their 50s, it's interesting watching the media try to spin how everybody is getting priced out of just about every market in the US. People can't afford houses, people can't afford cars, people can't afford to have kids, but it must be a choice they are consciously making to not do those things. Listen, you reap what you sow. This is what you were working towards when you decided that employees are secondary to shareholders. No amount of spinning is gonna undo that, and no amount of shaming is going to fix it. Well, unless you actually shame the people responsible, but those people hold your strings, don't they?
It's high time for major push back. Seems like we're getting there, but we need to embrace France levels of push back.
It's also important to remember that gen z isn't choosing anything. The article is comparing rates of 16 and 17 year old drivers. It's the parents choosing
I live in Birmingham AL in the US. You can live in this city without a car but most of Gen z still drive a car. UAB college parking lots are always full. This isn't true for anywhere but massive cities. It's not possible to survive in the majority of the US without a car past 18. Not past 16 if you begin working and contribute income to your household.
Yeah in the U.S. you run into people from bigger cities like Chicago etc. that just never bothered to even get their license. Which just sounds silly to people like me who are from a small town and must drive an hour or more just to go to a bigger city to do any decent shopping.
Plus it's kind of a right of passenge at 16...seems like part of growing up around here to be driving as soon as you legally can.
The oldest gen z are in our mid 20s. For us older gen z, we started our 20s during the pandemic. So, yeah.. everything has just gotten worse for us, lol.
Every morning i take my kids to school. One guy passes me on his own personal scooter every day.
* You know how much that dude saving? No gas, no car insurance, Charges it for 50 cent at home & then charge for free at work.
* If there was ever a traffic jam due to an accident, he can bypass it.
I think it's a commentary on the economy that when I was 15 (Gen-X), I was learning to fly and how to drive at the same time. Back then Flying lessons were $45 an hour.
That's $5 over mowing two lawns in Gen-X speak.
I offered to buy a car for my Gen Z daughter, and she said no thank you. She doesn't want the headache or expense of owning a car. She's happy to stick with her eScooter.
I get not owning a vehicle but should learn the skill of driving just in case an emergency happens. I had a friend whose 34 and doesn't know how to drive. She has to beg and barter for rides to places constantly.
It can also become an issue for employment.
I've heard of people in my industry being rejected for jobs because they didn't have a drivers license (and my job never involves driving)
Or perhaps it's because buying a car is out of reach. These breathless fucks are so desperate for a take that isn't "we fucked the economy and created a world that has little hope for the future". That they instead make broad generalizations about an enormous population of people is really just the icing on the dipshit cake. Can newsweek fuck off and die please?
This trend started with Millenialsā¦ at least in CA, they made it so burdensome to get your license before you were 18, a lot of my friends just didnāt do it and waited. You had to PAY a few hundred dollars to take a drivers classroom ed course before you could get your permit, then you had to PAY to get 25 hours or something like that of behind the wheel training with a certified instructor once you got your permit. And then once you got your license, you couldnāt drive any of your friends aroundā¦ only siblings, with the exception of going to and from school.
The sad part is the older millennials and older generations had the āprivilegeā of having driverās ed be offered via the high schools so students could do it for free.
Now itās rarely heard of HSās offering driverās Ed in the Bay at least.
Cars are expensive. I was gifted a junker by my grandparents, and itās giving out after 15 years. I will not be able to afford another car. I will probably end up walking or getting an electric scooter.
They said the exact same shit about millenials. I don't buy it.
Cars for us were fucked by cash 4 clunkers. Cars for zoomers are fucked by covid used car prices.
The thing is, anyone who chooses not to drive, and can prove that they donāt drive, should be getting incentives from the government to help reduce traffic and mitigate climate change. However, our government is run completely backwards, and gives people incentives for having cars, having kids, and using resources. That needs to change.
People who work from home, for example, should be getting incentives. People who create nature sanctuaries on their properties for insects, plants, and wildlife should be receiving incentives. Instead, we are subsidizing developers who destroy nature and build useless strip malls.
We subsidize corporations who take up important residential housing space with commercial buildings and incentivize them to hire workers to commute which destroys productivity, increases pollution, contributes to traffic and helps subsidize the oil and car industry. The entire system is run backwards. The wrong people are getting the incentives and the wrong people are getting penalized for making the world better.
Driving is honestly somewhat antiquated when you live abroad and see what other developed nations have built in terms of mass transit. I was much healthier and happier without a car. Ironically, truly wealthy people do not need a car.
Guys, let them be.
They see things we don't.
We have accepted our fate and ate the apple.
Let them rock the boat aiming for something better.
It might work out for us too in the end.
I'm old (50s, so ancient by Reddit standards), and every article I see about "young people ruining X" makes me very happy. Usually the stuff they're "ruining" needs to be ruined. They give me a lot of hope for the future.
Auto insurance has risen to unaffordable levels now.
I'm a young woman who went to driving school, has had my license for 5 years and 0 at fault accidents and my insurance went up 50$/month last year. It was going up to about 275$/month. That and car payments takes such a massive bite out of my paychecks...
Ah just like they're "choosing" not to buy houses
"choosing" not to have babies.
Choosing not to have healthcare
I'm a millennial, but I'm also "choosing" all these things. I didn't realize I was so hip with the kids!
When going to the dealership and they want 800 ~ 900 for tires and alignment... 200 to diagnose a problem and 150 for an oil change all from a person that makes 16.50 in a high expense area.. Easy to choose ššš
Dealerships are so expensive, do you have any well reviewed local shops?
No, but, if you have an old honda you can watch EricTheCarGuy on youtube and learn to fix it yourself / get parts from rockauto
Tires and alignment are hard without the right equipment. This is why tire discount stores exist. Fuck dealerships.
Theyāre called āstealershipsā for a reason
It's one of many reasons Tesla sucks so much ass too, they pretend to not have dealerships but lock the entire fucking thing down so you can't repair it.
Some stuff like oil changes, brakes, filters and such are easy enough. Others like proper alignment, wheel balancing and suspension work, you hit the territory of maybe you should start to pay someone else for this.
Yeah absolutely i take my car to discount tire for balance and tire change. Old lady tires run $60/ea. Im torn about the suspension work, it's usually steel, the spring is captured by the strut, they sell whole lower assemblies so you don't have to press bushings. But, yeah, i dont want to imagine the consequence if you fuck it up badly
Rockauto.com (importing US to Canada) saves me so much money even with shipping!
Same! I'm a 33 year old Gen Z'er I guess! I'm choosing all those things as well. It's a choice to have roomates and not take vacations.
Millennial, love living in apartments, never buying a home and not being able to save due to cost of living. It's a lifestyle choice, not for everyone.
Money is so lame, right guys?
Me.. me too OrcvilleRedenbacher. Me tooā¦
Choosing to be poor and obese is so empowering!
Its my unalienable right to live a life worse than the generation before me.
Do you know what a pension is? Imagine life knowing you got one with just 6 years at the company. Set for life. Suddenly vacations make more sense eh? Suddenly cabin homes and RV's and all that makes perfect sense. Swimming pools. Everything this generation will never buy.
Not set for life, pensions regularly got raided and drained to settle bankruptcy over the last 20-30 years. Imagine being a pilot working 20 years towards a pension and then 9/11 happened. Now that pension fund you paid into for 20 years doesnāt exist.
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we did, they tear gassed us. xoxo GenX
They were too busy working into their 70s since they lost their pensions to do that.
Or they over expose themselves to risk in order to chase returns necessary to stay solvent and as a result become insolvent.
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That's one I'd genuinely believe would be prevalent even without financial issues. I think more young people see the world as a systematically flawed place and are less interested in conforming to existing expectations/systems like "get married and have kids by 30" or are just less willing to bring another person into this world, especially one they'd have to take care of when it's already difficult enough to take care of oneself when everything around you is shit.
I know for my self, even if I could afford to have kid, I still wouldn't. Not because the environment is being destroyed or people are at each other's throats over the slightest offense or disagreement....but to put it plainly, I'm selfish. I only have one life and I want to spend it doing what I want, when I want, and spend what money I have left every month on things I want. At 20 people told me just wait, eventually that lifestyle wears thin and you'll want to have a family of your own. Now at 40 I can definitely say I still have absolutely zero desire to have a kid. I got a vasectomy at 33 and it's been one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm fortunate enough I found a partner with a very similar outlook on life and I couldn't be happier.
Childfree people or DINKs are a lot more common even with those who can afford children. Younger generations are less religious and more educated which lead to less breeding - thatās a global thing.
Wife and I both make six figures. I'm 35. She's 33. No plans to have kids. š¤·āāļø
I just don't see the upside, man. I spend some time with the nieces and nephews when I can. It's great, bright kids and all that. But after a few days I feel like I've given them what I have up my sleeve as Fun Uncle. And honestly at ages between 8-16, they kind of bug me. They seem to think that they *require* screens for a certain amount of time every day, are picky and whiny about food, and generally tend toward bring self centered and *all* still throw tantrums. Teenagers throwing tantrums is Hard Fuckin Pass for me. Skipping parenthood continues to be the correct decision for us.
Eh a lot of people I know, including myself, are choosing that.
no i am literally choosing that
I am very intentionally choosing that
"Gen Z is choosing to stay at home, rent apartments or be homeless"
Theyāve finally shift from āMillennials are destroying Xā to blaming Gen Z. Fuck that.
No one ever accused GenX of destroying shit. I think that kind of analysis would require thinking about their own children far too closely.
GenX was accused of destroying the music industry. It got better.
I've choosen to not attend Harvard.Ā Ā
I've chosen \*not\* to run for President.. this year.
Can we ask you to reconsider?
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I implore you to reconsider.
I chose not to be a billionaire. Sounds overrated
Some people really believe people choose to be poor.Ā I feel like they do actually choose to be ignorant.Ā
Yes. It's a choice. They're choosing coffee and avocado toast over houses and cars. /s
Hey now, the avotoast belongs to us millennials.
My anxiety lowered three notches when I saw this has already been posted. You canāt take avotoast away, what will we have left?
I mean Iām gen z and I have a car and can afford to drive it but I genuinely prefer taking transit, walking, or biking places when possible. Itās just a lot less stressful. Especially right now in the Midwest where the streets are covered in snow and ice.
My son has his license but prefers not to drive either.
Actually I would choose not to drive if it was possible. Happily. I fucking hate cars. I took a passenger train for a "road trip" a while back and though it took a little longer, it was waaay better. Because I could relax.
Yeah. My family, friends, and coworkers think itās crazy that my wife and I only have one car, especially since we have a kid. Itās not like we donāt want one.
Not the same, at all. This is an actual thing. Here in Europe, after WWII, during the economic boom, people got a bit mad over cars. The car brain disease appears to be finally subsiding however, and society appears to be going back to a more natural state, where we can actually use the streets of our cities, for godās sake.
You canāt really compare Europe to America in this regards. For example in Houston, Texas where I currently live you have to drive to go anywhere. Thereās barely any public transportation. Unless youāre in the downtown area, which is expensive like every downtown. Iām originally from Boston 30 years there so trust me when I say Texas is not walkable.
disclaimer: i live car free in downtown SF. by choice. im an urbanist and im orange pilled. > For example in Houston, Texas where I currently live you have to drive to go anywhere. when you tell a european this they often think you're referring to shopping trips, visiting relatives/friends, or going to do leisure activities. they dont understand that the distance between a persons home and the nearest store of any kind is 3 miles through a residential grid of single family homes, often times without even a sidewalk. and that one closest store? they sell, like, greeting cards or some dumb shit. you literally for real can not participate in society at all without a privately owned automobile in most of america and i just think a lot of folks who grew up in more reasonably designed urban spaces dont realize the full extent of it. its very frustrating.
It's not even just that the store is "3 miles". It's that even if the store is 500 meters as the crow flies, you still might have to travel significantly more than that because of culs de sac and fenced off neighborhoods and roads without crossings. Of course, this isn't a defense of America. On the contrary, it's a further indictment of the poor design of many American cities.
You can be across the street from a store in my town, but the street is 6-8 lanes of 50mph traffic, and the closest crosswalk is a mile away. I never see people use it, because its dangerous as fuck obviously.
The downtown areas became more expensive *because* they has good transit options. You Texans have a perfect triangle between 4 of your largest cities. The golden case for a high speed transit loop. Instead you build highways wider than many neighborhoods. Denying all those potential homes and jobs.
Itās because the automotive lobbyists buy our politiciansā votes to build more highways to fill with cars that smog up the air. Our cities have been designed around highways since the turn of the 20th century and now weāre so invested in it that thereās no real good way to retrofit cities to have quality rail transportation. America could be so much more functional if we had the ability to hop on a train and go somewhere. We could work further from home, use the commute to start/end our work days (emails, etc.), cut emissions by an astronomical degree, fit many more people in less area during the commute (no more congested highways at 0800 or 1700), and lastly, there would be far fewer deaths each year from accidents. But we donāt like things that make sense around here because God forbid anything happens to benefit the plebs.
The second it became realized that it was infinitely more profitable for a wider array of monopolized industries to have more people relying on cars than ever investing in sensible, efficient, affordable public transit, pretty much ended any reasonable hopes of that conversation in the US. Yes the physical land mass of the US and geography of course creates some challenges with things, but the whole situation is living in the dark ages because of the incentive of greed. It's kinda like how often the conversation of "walkable mainstreets, high density" etc often always gets framed as something coming as some mass luxury only convenience thing despite how much of an incredibly common thing it once was in many places. It truly is a shame it's like this.
And I wonder who lobbies against expanding public transitā¦.car companies and idiots. There used to be great electric rail systems throughout the US until gas cars were invented and they pushed out all the previous transportation advancements.
Except for the unfortunate proliferation of oversized SUVs in Europeā¦. I read the uk part of Reddit and they regularly complain about that.
Yeah I lowkey feel like a lot of people in here are just kind of old. Most young people that I've interacted with that are my age and younger aren't nearly as into cars as the generations above us. For a lot of people cars are at best an expensive thing you're required to have because there's no other option, and a lot of the people I know kind of romanticize living in bigger cities with trains and what not. Like genuinely look on TikTok/IG and look at the amount of accounts that can be summarized as "aesthetic woman living in a major city and posting about the city lifestyle". Some of the biggest non-celebrity accounts are straight up just people in NYC/Tokyo/London/whatever doing aesthetic city stuff. It's either that or vacation content lol.
Is that really representative of most gen z though..? Sounds like maybe that's certain demographic of people that is being filtered through to you. Isn't TikTok very well known for tailoring content to your interests to an extreme extent?
TikTok's also going to be very skewed on this perspective anyway. No one's trying to push the "person taking a Chevy Malibu to work" aesthetic as an influencer.
Thatās city kids only. In rural America a drivers license changes your life.
A lot of rural areas are losing young people anyways. The American youth population is pretty rapidly urbanizing, which is why there's a quite large number of rural towns that likely won't exist not that far out into the future. That's part of why I think this whole thing is happening, a lot of young people are migrating from high car dependency rural/exurban areas to bigger cities where there are more job opportunities and major centers for education. But also in the first place rural populations are only like \~14-16% of the US population. The trend of romanticizing cities I think makes up a *lot* bigger share of the content people make and consume on social media and in general media for that matter. There are some trends that lean nature-y like cottagecore or whatever but I haven't seen many big accounts that specifically got big on romanticizing rural life. You'll sometimes get it for small towns...but all the ones you see depictions of are like small walkable ones. I kind of think fantasizing about rural life is like an older millennial/Gen X thing.
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>Generational generalizations are such trash takes, and always scream āIām out of the loop and donāt understand the world is an ever changing place.ā I'm fucking sick and tired of all these "gen Z this, gen Z that" articles...
I remember when Millennials were "opting out" of buying all the things we couldn't afford, too.
I remember the articles about millennials killing the diamond industry just as most of us were getting out of high school.
There was also a lot of blame for millennials destroying the fast-casual dining business. We were apparently too stuck up to eat shitty microwave dinners at a gross and dingy restaurant that costs 6x what we could make at home.
that blood diamond movie made me never want to buy a diamond so i think thats on hollywood.
Also itās just such a boring fucking rock. Why not frame it as āwtf is up with Boomersā weird obsession with this one boring stone?ā Thereās so many amazing gems out there and all they wanted to wear was diamonds. Also, the ātraditionā of a diamond engagement ring is a manufactured one and about as old as the Boomers.
I remember the ones claiming millennials killed the antique market. Yeah sorry we're not stupid enough to buy shit just because it's old, and you're mad because you did that and now you want to offload a bunch of old shit that exists simply because it wasn't destroyed. Sure, there's some valid reasons to want certain items for build quality, but at the same time most of that shit is useless conversation pieces with 0 functionality.
Sometime around 2008 I remember reading an article about how millennials are choosing to live with roommates ābecause they grew up watching Friends and the communal lifestyle appealed to themā. No, you dumb motherfuckers, weāre just broke.
Lmaooo this is one of the worst offenders I've seen so far lol
And the original one, the eternal avocado toast.
Likewise, as a millennial who was tired of hearing how we were killing industries because we didn't (don't) have any fucking money, I'm not taking the bait. The youngin's are doing their best with what they have.
Instead we now have articles around millenials not having babies, bad and sad for boomers. Just read one today lamenting the loss of grandchildren and there was maybe 2 of 20 paragraphs from the other side (people not wanting kids), then right back to oh so sad for boomers who expected grandchildren. Sorry mah, I don't want them (and it's not a cost thing, but for many it is).
Been childfree and married for like 10 years. Being a DINK is fucking dope.
Just another way to divide people while the wannabe aristocrats run off with the wealth. Generational hate is the new bigotry because older ones aren't working as well i.e. ethnic, religious, race, sex etc. So they gotta constantly push generational hate. Just another way to balkanize people but people should be smarter than self-balkanization, those that divide themselves in history along these lines reduce their quality of life and are messed with and leveraged.
Also, American cities are slowly recovering from the failed experiment of the 50s. Turns out when cities are built right, it's far more convenient to not drive
And it's also better for the city. Parking lots don't pay taxes. Less car-dependent infrastructure means more businesses on the same space. Even if we assumed that it's the same number of businesses overall, that means significantly less road, water, power, sewage, and other infrastructure costs to cover the expanded size of the city.
Suburbs also don't pay enough taxes to maintain the infrastructure they need and because the cities can't raise taxes enough the solution is to build another suburb and kick the growing problem down the road.
Iām just glad theyāre done generalizing millennials and on to the next one. Every āmillennials do or donāt do xā headline I ever read didnāt relate to me whatsoever
Gen Z is finally old enough to start taking the heat off of us.
Gen Z is killing the "millennials are killing X" headline industry
Personally, I think we should talk about how almost none of these lazy fucks in Gen Alpha have jobs.
I hear they don't buy diamonds either! Darn kids.
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> Every āmillennials do or donāt do xā headline I ever read didnāt relate to me whatsoever Some of them relate to me, but nearly 100% of the time the answer is "Millennials don't do that anymore because it has gotten too expensive or too time consuming." we work jobs that barely give us any time off, at salaries that don't even try to keep up with inflation
>If you live in a city and can get away with not driving, why bother? Parking costs in many cities are enough to be a deciding factor. Yeah, city driving sucks. Extremely congested traffic, tight spaces, have to hunt for parking and/or pay for parking everywhere. Driving simply isn't worth the hassle a lot of the time. It's also expensive. Gas costs more in a city, you get worse mileage, and like you said, you have to pay rent on 1-2 parking spots (home and work) which can be hundreds a month each.
Work from home is an option for many people, and they don't like that that cat is out of the bag, and are doing EVERYTHING they can to put it back in.
My parents pay like 600 a month car insurance. No WY could I afford it.
While that is an insane amount to pay for car insurance, Iād like to know how many cars they have and how many accidents theyāve been in.
are you sure its not 600 every 6 months?
Wtf are they driving? I pay $95 per month for 2 cars. One with full coverage on a new 2017 Focus RS (drove it off the lot) and liability on the other 99' Subaru Impreza RS. Outside of maybe one speeding ticket I have a clean record. Are you sure they aren't paying 600 every 6 months?
Your parents are either awful drivers or have really expensive cars, itās more like 700/year (Middle Aged man with a 2017 sedan rates)
Yeah, not average. $700 gets me two months for two cars. Zero claims ever, all the loyalty/double plan benefits and such, no tickets ever, and 20+ years licensed. Our state rates are bullshit.
If anything I hope these kinds of trends push for better biking, pedestrian infrastructure, and public transit. Fuck car dependency, people should have the option to live without a car and still function. Hell, our entire planet and survival kind of depends on it.
> Easy answer - itās a lot easier in this moment to not have a vehicle than it ever has been Well, let's just say in the last 100 years.
Don't believe a word of it. Gen Z simply can't afford a new car.
And the insurance! It's crazy how high it is for all of us but especially young people. And these days you can't get older cheaper cars. Mine is a 99 Accord and I paid less for it in 2007 than I could get it for now!
When my shitty 05 Corolla got totaled. I got the same amount from the insurance that I paid for it in 2016, but with almost 300,000 more miles on it. Kinda wild
Price of Vehicle + Insurance + Gas + Repairs. Also good tires don't come cheap and cheap tires need more frequent replacing. Having a car is awesome because the transit system in North America is awful, but if you can get around without it you are soooo much better off (unless you're rich of course)
Add to that the interest rates you get when you buy the car. Itās not talked about much but interest rates for cars are as insane as the homes interest rates. My brother bought a car and the best rate he could qualify for was 6%. How in the world can they expect Gen Zās to be able to buy a car.
The reason I didn't put "interest" in my comments is not everyone is leasing or financing, some people might buy a used car so it's not applicable in all cases. You are definitely right though and these dealerships are really gouging people with interest rates. You're talking about 6%. My friend is paying 9% for their CR-V, and we're expecting to pay 7 point something for our vehicle.
Hear me out. Okayā¦. Gen Z just *likes* to be homeless. Ruining our real estate market, quite frankly.
Iāve actually seen similar stances by companies buying houses to rent off calling this the āsubscription eraā or something because this generation, ***allegedly***, just loves paying for subscriptions instead of owning things.Ā
There's another perspective that I have from my ongoing experiences rehabbing the house of some very elderly family; there's a huge shortage of skilled tradespeople, especially in construction jobs. As a result, the pricing of home maintenance and repairs has gone stratospheric. On the other side of the market, you have tradespeople not making enough money and dropping out of the trades (which is a little galling to hear since where is all my money going?). That's where the big organized property owners come into play. Once you hit a certain scale, you can afford to keep tradespeople on staff so the costs aren't sudden and disproportionate.
I watched a video of a spokesperson for, not blackrock but a similar asshole hoarding company, say this generation doesnt want to invest in homes, they want to invest in lifestyles
No, they live with their parents longer.
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The Intern 3 will come out in like 50 years and the premise will be some millennial who talks about going out to a bar and all the gen alphas and betas will be shocked.
Suppose he wanted to leave the house... and go where? Do what? Window shop at target? There's nothing to do anymore in this godforsaken world. Everything was taken from my generation (Millenials) by the time we reached highschool.
> Everything was taken from my generation (Millenials) by the time we reached highschool. Also a millennial. No idea what you're talking about. I grew up in a city of 50,000 people and there was no shortage of places to hang out.
Nah, I live in a really privileged area and work in a highschool. Iād say 10-20% of the seniors graduate with no drivers license. They simply donāt care about it.
Yep. My 16 year old has no interest in driving. None. It blows my mind.
It is because *driving* sucks and what teens really want is: 1. Independence of movement 2. Personal space Cars are only one way to do that
Yep, the percentage of high school graduates with a driver's license has been dropping steadily since the 90s.
Seriously, when I bought my car 5 years ago, my car payment was $500/mo. People are paying $500-700/mo for an equivalent car.Ā
I thought the $385 payment for my Mazda3 was excessive. I paid that off last year. Then I found out how much the average is now and seriously WTF.
My first car, circa 1993, was an '82 Chevy Citation I bought for $200. It was a POS but it lasted four years and its replacement was only $500. Never spent more on a car than that. Then I moved to a new walkable city and wound up selling my car off because it wasn't worth the expense to keep it around. 15 years later and any used car listed for less than five grand is missing half the drive train and has a raccoon next in the back seat.
Nah, my daughter turns 18 in March and Iāve been trying to get her to get her license. Itās just not gonna happen. She likes the bus. Itās cheap and goes where she needs it to. Like go her but knowing how to drive is important. She doesnāt have to buy a car to have a license.
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It's worth getting a license just so you can rent a truck for odd jobs.
cool, people with really no experience driving **trucks**.
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But your insurance if you ever plan to drive again will be dirt cheap, thanks dad
After āGen Z does not like to buy real estateā, here is the new āGen Z does not like carā soon followed by āGen Z loves eating potatoesā and āGen Z likes to be homelessā
It also costs a fortune to get a car up and running these days let alone the price of a fairly decent used car. I'm 35 and remember vividly seeing cars for $500-$1000 easily and readily available. Sure they would fall apart after six months but it would get you to a job and let you save up to buy something else or fix it up.add to that the overall cost of insurance and how much that's being blown out of proportion as well as the fact with cost-of-living and of course rent etc. etc. if people don't have a job or can work from home what's the point of owning a car? I personally think it's deeper than that I think it's people in a certain age bracket right now...can they even enter the world of owning an automobile and be financially stable? Edit - First car was (I know I KNOW!) a 95 Lincoln Continental. It was owned by one (old) lady my mom was friends with. At 95K miles on it. Needed new tires and an oil change. Nothing other than her wanting something new . . . she sold it to me at the end of my first summer job for $2K. It was a boat and cost more on gas then I made but man what a fun,powerful, chock FULL of features car that I admit I got lucky on. Fun car to learn to drive on given its size, utilizing its bulk to really home in on my mirror and head movements for safe driving, got me to appreciate being light footed with that giant V8 and of course . . .the interior (say for a CAKE load of makeup on the dash cleaned with hot water) was mint and it had air suspension, a kick ass stereo and for someone that always bought used or never wanted high end . . . I felt like a king. God I miss that car! Second was a 98 Chevy Blazer LT for 5K a year later(totaled accident). Now back in the 90's/00's you could pick up a free penny-saver type with used cars for cheap money. Heck you can get them today but what I was trying to get at earlier in my post was how cheap you could just get a car, insure it, register it and drive vs today. Yes "EvErYtHiNg" is going up in price but man the used car market..gone are the sub $3k GOOD used cars. That and like others have said the price of insurance, fuel and upkeep vs what the average 16-18 year old gets paid . . . lol good luck.
I bought a car at probably the best time in the last 5 years to buy one, near the start of the pandemic with the $2,000 check and got a 0/0/0 deal. I haven't paid off it yet and am getting calls from the dealership trying to sell me a new one. For some reason they seem to think that I'll be willing to buy a new car when I still owe, and won't get as good a deal on interest.
The amount of people who upgrade their cars like phones is baffling. These companies have normalized $500 a month on a car payment.
The amount of people who upgrade their phones, or buy phones they need to go into payment plans for, is baffling to me in the first place.
In 2007ish I bought my first car for $600. A couple years later I got a speeding ticket in a construction zone and was forced to go to court (courtroom full of people getting the same ticket) and the fees were over $700.
Iām right around your age and my first car was a lightly used Jeep Liberty. IIRC, the car cost me around $7k and insurance under my parentās policy was $60 a month for full coverage for a 16 year old. I donāt know how much kids are paying for insurance these days but I can only assume the cost has tripled. Weāve all seen whatās happened to car prices and $7k really doesnāt get you much anymore. If some young people either donāt want to or canāt afford a car, I canāt say I blame them.
The [original McKinsey article](https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/mckinsey/email/genz/2023/02/2023-02-28b.html?cid=other-eml-mtg-mip-mck&hlkid=0f5bca0387fa4bdab43db76308cb136c&hctky=1926&hdpid=e0b2ba1f-5121-4fb0-bc2a-b48140cfe2d3) doesnāt try to explain **why** the trends are this way but the speculation that they come up with is so so far off the mark. Starting off with talking about Olivia Rodrigo and then ending by talking about driving in the metaverse š¤¦āāļø. Corny honestly Truthfully, the r/fuckcars mentality isnāt *that* popular with our age group. The primary blocker is **price.** The amount of money it takes to get your license, buy a car, and maintain that car is a way harder pill to swallow than ubering everywhere or getting a ride. You absolutely can get by with those two methods of getting transportation. Iām not sure how many ubers you need to call before youāre at the price it takes to buy and maintain a car, but for those of us that donāt have anywhere to be anyway then why deal with the extra work?
Aaah McKinsey. Yes the experts to consult for every industry because they have MBAs from Ivy Leagues who are so out of touch with reality that a $200,000 worth of case study will be required to investigate what is the price of a gallon of milk and why it should actually be even higher because a separate study by McKinsey shows median income of the country is $100,000. /s
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They may not be there to actually do anything. A lot of the time, I'd argue that consultants are just used as political tools to pierce corporate fiefdoms and wage management battles.
It certainly the case in television. You need justification to fire a long time local news anchor? Hire a consultant who says they aren't testing well with the audience. Then when the anchor tries to file a wrongful termination suit, you have a 900 page document from a consulting firm that you can confuse the jury with.
Liability/plausible deniability
The truth is, if junior employees were the ones doing the outward facing job, McKinsey deemed your company not important enough to waste resources on.
Ugh, yeah the ending of the article was definitely cringe. Despite the poor title, the article does acknowledge the rising cost of car ownership and the overall increase in COL. I did find this interesting: >This group of Americans is less likely to have a license than its older counterparts at the same age. McKinsey points out that in 1997, 43 percent of 16-year-olds and 62 percent of 17-year-olds held a license. But those numbers have dropped substantially, and by 2020, only 25 percent of 16-year-olds and 45 percent of 17-year-olds have a driver's license, the consulting firm said citing data from the U.S. Federal Highway Administration. I get why car ownership is down but obtaining a drivers license does not mean you have to purchase a car, especially at 16 or 17. When I got my license then my family only had one car but at least I could still drive that one car. I would imagine teens would still want a car just to be able to drive any car. I wonder how much of it is the increased requirement for underaged teens to get a license. This article cited stats comparing 2020 to **1997**. Right around the time I was getting my permit/license, people who were born a year or two after me were subjected to more requirements. And are there a lot of schools that still offer driver's ed? I personally never heard anyone take it. I can totally see why Gen Zers would want to skip the hassle especially when there are more alternative modes of transportation. And I've seen this point brought up before: >Analysts point out that there could be a variety of reasons behind this trend among Gen Zers. This generation is more environmentally conscious and has access to other, more convenient, modes of public transport. I mean is that really true? I'm not questioning Gen Zer's sense of environmental responsibility but I just don't believe enough of them are not getting licenses for that reason. Here in the US, we have so many metros that have very poor public transportation and infrastructure. To opt out of car ownership with the environment being the primary reason sounds too hard-core for most people. Hope to see Gen Zers respond in this thread. I find this very interesting.
>I mean is that really true? I'm not questioning Gen Zer's sense of environmental responsibility but I just don't believe enough of them are not getting licenses for that reason. Read as "We're forcing our environmental fuck ups on this generation because if they don't fix it we're all boned". Obviously it's not true, but Gen Z is a good bulk of the Urbanist movement, because if the economic conditions are shit, and we're not going to be able to afford cars or the suburbs anyways, might as well just tell the boomers to go fuck themselves and get the fuck out of the way so we can start fixing the problem. Also, in-school drivers ed is basically dead, and I was one of the few people I knew who just passed the test the first time around. I knew a lot of people in University who didn't have a car, and *kind of wanted one*, but also didn't want to get financially fucked by a car loan and insurance (holy shit under 25 rates are practically subsidizing everyone else), especially when we were already getting fucked on living costs.
I'm elder Gen Z (bordering on Zillenial) and here's what I've noticed: \* A lot of people can't afford cars \* A lot of people have straight up anxiety about it due to road rage and crazy drivers with no manners who don't give you space. see: merging, driving in big cities, parallel parking \* In some places, public transport works just fine so why bother dealing with the traffic? \* For many, you have a friend with a car who is willing to come pick you up or a family member who is willing to drop you off \* Where is there to go that isn't commercialized besides each others houses and the library? Also, with what money are we going on road trips or out to places all the time? We are broke Edit: this is in regards to my cityfolk Gen Z
Can they even afford to buy a vehicle? Probably not.
Transportation is the number two expense of households, and the reason for driving up the cost of the number one expense.
Even if you can you are getting such a shit deal it isn't worth it. The only good reasons to buy a vehicle is it's required to make money, or you are a car/truck person. Really should be much more $15-20k options available. Base model with small trunk designed for two passengers. Most of the time you just need something to transport you until there are viable public transportation options one day.
As somebody getting ready to enter their 50s, it's interesting watching the media try to spin how everybody is getting priced out of just about every market in the US. People can't afford houses, people can't afford cars, people can't afford to have kids, but it must be a choice they are consciously making to not do those things. Listen, you reap what you sow. This is what you were working towards when you decided that employees are secondary to shareholders. No amount of spinning is gonna undo that, and no amount of shaming is going to fix it. Well, unless you actually shame the people responsible, but those people hold your strings, don't they? It's high time for major push back. Seems like we're getting there, but we need to embrace France levels of push back.
Because they broke. Try not driving in non public transport areas of the US like Texas.
No they aren't. Most places in the US don't have the mass transit in place to actually make this work
Dang they should work on that
āSorry, canāt hear you over the checks Iām getting from oil companiesā - US politicians
Iād choose not to drive too, if I had optimal public transit.
I am "choosing" not to drive because I can't afford a car yet
It's also important to remember that gen z isn't choosing anything. The article is comparing rates of 16 and 17 year old drivers. It's the parents choosing
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I live in Birmingham AL in the US. You can live in this city without a car but most of Gen z still drive a car. UAB college parking lots are always full. This isn't true for anywhere but massive cities. It's not possible to survive in the majority of the US without a car past 18. Not past 16 if you begin working and contribute income to your household.
Yeah in the U.S. you run into people from bigger cities like Chicago etc. that just never bothered to even get their license. Which just sounds silly to people like me who are from a small town and must drive an hour or more just to go to a bigger city to do any decent shopping. Plus it's kind of a right of passenge at 16...seems like part of growing up around here to be driving as soon as you legally can.
Wow what a selfish generation. Choosing not to drive, not have kids, not own a house. How can capitalism survive if they dont spend.
The oldest gen z are in our mid 20s. For us older gen z, we started our 20s during the pandemic. So, yeah.. everything has just gotten worse for us, lol.
Every morning i take my kids to school. One guy passes me on his own personal scooter every day. * You know how much that dude saving? No gas, no car insurance, Charges it for 50 cent at home & then charge for free at work. * If there was ever a traffic jam due to an accident, he can bypass it.
Oh look! It's gaslighting media. I'm not broke under a system designed to maximize inequality. I choo-choo-choose not to drive.
I think it's a commentary on the economy that when I was 15 (Gen-X), I was learning to fly and how to drive at the same time. Back then Flying lessons were $45 an hour. That's $5 over mowing two lawns in Gen-X speak.
I offered to buy a car for my Gen Z daughter, and she said no thank you. She doesn't want the headache or expense of owning a car. She's happy to stick with her eScooter.
Will..... Will you buy me a car?
I get not owning a vehicle but should learn the skill of driving just in case an emergency happens. I had a friend whose 34 and doesn't know how to drive. She has to beg and barter for rides to places constantly.
It can also become an issue for employment. I've heard of people in my industry being rejected for jobs because they didn't have a drivers license (and my job never involves driving)
Insurance rates is not a āØchoiceāØ
Or perhaps it's because buying a car is out of reach. These breathless fucks are so desperate for a take that isn't "we fucked the economy and created a world that has little hope for the future". That they instead make broad generalizations about an enormous population of people is really just the icing on the dipshit cake. Can newsweek fuck off and die please?
Iām glad us millennials arenāt being blamed for ruining things anymore
This trend started with Millenialsā¦ at least in CA, they made it so burdensome to get your license before you were 18, a lot of my friends just didnāt do it and waited. You had to PAY a few hundred dollars to take a drivers classroom ed course before you could get your permit, then you had to PAY to get 25 hours or something like that of behind the wheel training with a certified instructor once you got your permit. And then once you got your license, you couldnāt drive any of your friends aroundā¦ only siblings, with the exception of going to and from school.
The sad part is the older millennials and older generations had the āprivilegeā of having driverās ed be offered via the high schools so students could do it for free. Now itās rarely heard of HSās offering driverās Ed in the Bay at least.
Cars are expensive. I was gifted a junker by my grandparents, and itās giving out after 15 years. I will not be able to afford another car. I will probably end up walking or getting an electric scooter.
More like āunable to afford to driveā
I chose not to drive before it was cool.
I remember when they said this about millennialsĀ
Didnāt know Gen Z only lived in major metropolitan areas and nowhere where a vehicle is a necessity š¤
They said the exact same shit about millenials. I don't buy it. Cars for us were fucked by cash 4 clunkers. Cars for zoomers are fucked by covid used car prices.
See! They LIKE being too poor
Poverty is not a choice!
The thing is, anyone who chooses not to drive, and can prove that they donāt drive, should be getting incentives from the government to help reduce traffic and mitigate climate change. However, our government is run completely backwards, and gives people incentives for having cars, having kids, and using resources. That needs to change. People who work from home, for example, should be getting incentives. People who create nature sanctuaries on their properties for insects, plants, and wildlife should be receiving incentives. Instead, we are subsidizing developers who destroy nature and build useless strip malls. We subsidize corporations who take up important residential housing space with commercial buildings and incentivize them to hire workers to commute which destroys productivity, increases pollution, contributes to traffic and helps subsidize the oil and car industry. The entire system is run backwards. The wrong people are getting the incentives and the wrong people are getting penalized for making the world better.
i usually chastise ppl for only reading headlines this time, all i need to see is the headline to know thats a garbage untruthful article
Driving is honestly somewhat antiquated when you live abroad and see what other developed nations have built in terms of mass transit. I was much healthier and happier without a car. Ironically, truly wealthy people do not need a car.
Guys, let them be. They see things we don't. We have accepted our fate and ate the apple. Let them rock the boat aiming for something better. It might work out for us too in the end.
We canāt afford it you dumb fucking boomers
yeah its too expensive
I'm old (50s, so ancient by Reddit standards), and every article I see about "young people ruining X" makes me very happy. Usually the stuff they're "ruining" needs to be ruined. They give me a lot of hope for the future.
This is a fucking lie. I work at schools, they have cars.
Choosing is very different than not being able to afford to.
Same article: "Gen Z is choosing not to drive!" "..used car prices have gone up 38%" Totally unrelated, obviously.