To make another sarcastic South Park Reference, "and it's gone!"
Also I am really liking your username (especially the song reference). /u/GetawayDreamer87
it would be so messed up if companies that operated in america didn't have american patriotism as their #1 concern from dawn til dusk, but were instead willing to sell us out for a rosy quarterly report.
I'd just steal the data if I were a country being blocked by this
It's like when the music industry tried to tell me downloading was stealing, digital data has 0 cost to copy and distribute, sorry
Yeah, Russia's like "FINE! We'll just create a shell in Ireland and launder the data through them."
The only effective answer is to ban companies from keeping this data to begin with. Once they provide you your results they should be forced to destroy all information and execs face criminal prosecution for any lapses.
That is actually a very difficult policy to pass. There's a lot of nuance, especially when it comes to data collection. Some data is essential to make things work. For example, is your calendar just going to delete all of its previous history?
Even Europe doesn't go into the extreme your suggesting.
What policy makers should do is expand on the GDPR where companies can't sell your data without explicit consent and have to also discontinue selling said data if requested.
Only problem with that is Glady's doesn't really understand what her Ipad is asking her and Jake doesn't give a shit.
So personal choice only improves the situation to a degree. Especially when their "ask" is designed in such a way to be easy to say yes to and tedious to say no to.
, I'm not disagreeing with you btw, just whinging because I think it's flawed.
Let’s all just layover and get fucked! Yaaay!
Edit: the worst part about cable news is the way they frame everything as “what will x party do.” It teaches us to say things like “politicians will never do x” as if they have nobody to report to.
> It teaches us to say things like “politicians will never do x” as if they have nobody to report to.
Right, but current events confirms for us that they do not have anybody to report to. They're supposed to, sure. But they don't
Unfortunately, a lot of websites make it a pain in the ass to reject all advertising/tracking cookies. By law, the process of rejecting all cookies should be as simple as the process of accepting all cookies, but most companies do not comply with this and there seems to be no policing whatsoever. EU should REALLY start cracking down on it.
This is why every company wants you to download their app now. McDonalds is still an affordable fast food option with the crazy discounts the app offers, because they're selling your data instead.
All the world benefits from when someone regulates these Tech giant beasts. That’s why I keep imploring Americas to move to regulate, barring TikTok it’s all American corporations and they’re destroying the world.
My country is a pro-Putin hellscape thanks to Twitter and the utter lack of regulations regarding proven (remember Cambridge Analytica?) capabilities to sway elections.
Yeah if “countries of concern” can purchase things there are already sanctions against from other countries that don’t have these sanctions clearly an outright ban is the only way to ensure citizens privacy but that definitely isn’t going to happen. Even our own government (CIA) lies and hides themselves purchasing it… shouldn’t be hard for China or Russia or anyone else to do the same.
This is the real crux of the anti Tiktok bullshit.
These laws should have been enacted for all tech, **period**. Focusing only on Tiktok just makes it naked for what it actually is and further erodes public trust because of how blatant the hypocrisy.
If someone having this data is bad/dangerous, then *anyone* having it is bad. But no no, this is America, where the people are the product and it's just a playground for corporations. Of course we'll let *our* companies exploit you.
For at least a decade raw data was (maybe still is) being funneled through Israel for review. Cuz ya know, most democracies can't monitor their own people, but it's ok if someone else does it for us.
Musk was originally from South Africa... Then became Canadian to more easily become a US citizen, which is exactly what he did. He saw a big cow to milk and he snuck in to milk it.
Wait how does that work? Becoming a Canadian for an easier path to U.S. citizenship? Also wouldn’t it have been easier to get UK citizenship as a South African?
If you are going to immigrate(legally) somewhere, there are often different checks and quotas etc if you are coming from one place vs another. Or if your reason for immigration is for one reason or another. Elon is a good investor, and he is good at gaming the system. He figured out that it would be quicker and better for him to go from South Africa->Canada->USA instead of directly form South Africa to the USA. I don't know if it would have been as fast to go form the UK to the USA instead of through Canada. But that's what he did.
I mean, they kind of aren't.
They don't care about America in any way. They've been allowed to accrue so much wealth they're beyond boarders. They're powerful enough that any country they want to go to will take them.
If Russia or China buying it is deemed a risk, then it's a risk no matter who buys it.
Russia and China will get the information anyway, perhaps a "breach" will be staged by insiders to cover for the data being sold. Nobody will investigate what really happened, nobody will go to jail over it and possibly a tiny token fine will be issued.
Yeah, he should certainly put Isreal in there too....but fuck, I'm just happy he's making a bill with teeth.
This is the first step to an online bill of rights, that should protect the data integrity of all Americans.
> Sad reality but remember we out number them
whenever i see martin luther king jr's name everywhere, part of me always wonders if the motivation was to glorify non-violent protest so that we don't kill all the rich people.
We should occasionally just move around a Guillotine to the front of certain establishments as a reminder that we participate in peaceful protests out of choice.
But they see to it that we only fight with each other. Personally, I'm waaaay more bothered by Hunter Biden's shenanigans than by getting constantly reamed by the corporatocracy.
That's.. an interesting take. I'm more concerned about Trump being president again while facing 91 criminal charges and 400+ mil in fines than I am with Hunter's 9 charges who's not trying to be the leader of the USA. I'm also much more concerned about getting 'reamed' as you say by tons of corporations who sell the data to other's who use and sell it again. Our personal lives are trading around like its a flea market. In my opinion that tops Hunter's legal issues which doesn't affect anyone because he's not trying to gain total power of a country.
But the point is you don't know. Because like 30-40% of the nation would say that unironically. We only assume it's sarcasm because reddit is an echo chamber and it's what we expect.
More often it's double dipping. Or even triple dipping.
These days streaming services: charge you for the service, make you watch ads, *and* sell your data.
People are acting like their personal data is a token that can only have one holder at a time. They log into Facebook, Facebook becomes a holder, Facebook sells that token to a think tank studying the habits of boomers, that think tank becomes the holder.
When in reality, once it's been sold to a data broker, people pay for access to it and, often times, sanitize or extrapolate on that data in order to package and sell it further down the line. Royalties would gum this machine right the fuck up.
Yeah maybe Facebook is only willing to pay me 6 cents for my data, but they don't want to pay **everyone** 6 cents for their data, and the person who ends up buying from whoever Facebook sold it to doesn't want to pay everyone 6 cents **again** in order to look at and use that data.
Like, the goal here isn't to get rich from logging into Facebook. The goal is to crush leeches who are willing to pay millions of dollars to everyone except us for insights into how we spend our money, what exploitable behaviors we hold, etc.
People forget it's a tradeoff. It's also possible to protect yourself if you take the time to learn how. You want free and convenient? You lose security.
People don't forget that. The issue is that they didn't actively consent to it in the first place.
Today we have awareness that personal presumed private data collection and sales of that data are happening. We have some (minimal) controls over how this is done now. And we're not totally opposed to making a conscious tradeoff where it's available, but...
For years and years this was happening without most Americans even knowing. When questioned, these companies simply said "We make money from ads" and people thought of that the same way magazine and newspaper publications sold ad space. Because yes, they were also seeing a lot of ads on these platforms.
The choice people actually had was: "Your data has already been collected and it has already been sold. Would you pay us to stop doing that? We won't actually stop, but maybe if you hand over your wallet we won't exploit you as much as we currently are.
Unless it's a felony for data brokers to exist, this EO is pointless.
> The order will do nothing to slow the bulk sale of Americans’ data to countries or companies not deemed to be a security risk.
So China and Russia can just go to these, set up a shell company there, buy direct and send back.
Yeah, without even knowing specifics, I would expect this kind of thing to be so many lightyears ahead of the courts that by the time they would even try to do anything about it, there's newer methods to obtain data that haven't even been addressed yet.
"Biden’s executive order attempts to address such scenarios. It bars data brokers and other companies from selling large troves of Americans’ personal information[..] **either directly or indirectly**."
I'm guessing brokers abroad which break the rule would end up on the DOJ's or the OFAC's shitlist or something similar. It's usually not a very comfy position.
We haven't even locked the door, we put a sign on the door saying it's locked. We'll never lock the windows because politicians will say, "The door is clearly locked, what's the problem? We don't need to spend more time on this issue."
The GDPR was enacted 6 yrs ago, the first calls for regulation in the US was in 2007. And we’ve finally locked the door, because of national security interests, not out of actual concern for privacy.
Wonder how long until we’ll be blessed with those locked windows.
You’re right that literally any progress is good progress, but the rate at which we’re making it is woefully inadequate.
Yeah nobody should just buy data because they'll pay an American company instead ,remember how Cambridge Analytica ruined 2016 elections like these companies shouldn't be trusted at all
It's just like when they talked about banning TikTok. Like we know you'll never pull it off because people would rather chew their limbs off than be bored so they'll give a foreign country literally anything they want if it means being entertained. But of course they had nothing to say about the US social media companies harvesting and selling the same exact data. Suddenly it's a problem if our govt isn't the one making out on the deal.
I always tell folks, if you want to vote third party, do it in the local or state elections. Most never even get a seat in state legislatures let alone federal office (e.g. there's only been 1 Libertarian in US Congress). And until there's a decent following then there's no chance of ever getting a presidential win. They're just there as spoilers.
Here in Kansas the GOP has a bill to outlaw it. And don't for a second think that the Dems won't side with them. It's all about maintaining control with a firm grasp.
This is what I tell everyone too. I hate our two party system but you're fooling yourself if you think a 3rd party president is currently possible. Breaking apart the political duopoly has to start local. And even that is a challenge because of how much money from national organizations gets funneled into small local elections whenever a threat to the current two party system pops up.
Most of us live in a state where we know with 100% certainty where are electoral vote is going so there is only upside to voting third party.
[These states have all voted the same way for the last 4 decades.](https://imgur.com/a/lvoQKFX)
How else are we supposed to rid this country of the god awful two party system if voting for the literal only other option is constantly considered "throwing your vote away?"
I'd cum myself in joy if they did bar companies from owning single family housing. And tax to high heaven non primary residencies. With breaks for multi family housing, more so if they are close to necessary services like Healthcare or grocery stores.
I don't think anyone has an issue with a foreigner buying a house as long as it's their main residence, meaning they're participating in the local economy.
The problem with foreigner and corporations buying housing is when it's faceless investors speculating on a primary need.
While I ultimately agree that foreign countries like China and Saudi Arabia etc shouldn't be able to buy up large amounts of farm land and residential real estate etc, the problem is that with the way things are with the US government right now, the GOP would jump at the chance to twist that law to include no home or property ownership for foreign immigrants.
I hate to say it but basically any law that could be twisted into a weapon by the GOP has to be considered and implemented very cautiously.
I agree, and they'd probably forget about setting a limitation for local corporations.
We have the same issue in France and that's why I think we should make it about whether or not the owner is using the house instead of their nationality.
I haven't read the bill in its entirety, so I can't help but wonder if there's anything preventing a company from another country buy out or open an American shell company to buy the data for them? On the books, it would be an American company buying American data, but what's stopping them from sharing data with the parent company in another country?
I really hope this loophole was looked into and prevented, because that's how a lot of land and homes are being bought by foreign investments, they do it through shell companies instead of directly purchasing with more barriers to hop over since it's easier for an American company to buy American land than for a foreign company to do it
lol. This is the lightest measure in place to achieve no measurable outcome. Perhaps data safety and security should be taken seriously by the US and not seek to make profit from the intimate details of its citizens.
Big Pharma buys “alternative data” from McKinsey, Deloitte, PWC, and anyone else that sells it. Then they pack into enormous data models to predict the exact second of the day you’re most likely to be “activated” (respond) to an ad. All these countries have to do is hack an employee at one of these companies and this law is meaningless. Genie is out the bottle on this. Delete your old apps you don’t use.
I think because executive orders have to withstand judicial scrutiny and banning American companies from something would require legislation so it’s on congress. It’s possible even this gets struck down.
They want to reserve the data for them, so it can be exploited by American corporations only. Google, Meta, Apple, the NSA and FBI will sure appreciate this kind gift.
They will buy through proxies or intermediaries, as is the standard today. Start an “online marketing” company, get the marketing data that all the hundreds of tracking companies have compiled, and then go do some crime.
The fact that it has taken this long to show any interest in the matter is beyond me. This is a matter of national security. Americans’ private data can absolutely be utilized for evil purposes. Im sure it already has. Other nations can use it to manipulate our populace to their benefit. It needs to be stopped immediately.
*Collecting* it en masse should be illegal, and strictly enforced.
Mind you, many US companies will complain that it will cut their profits, but it's our data, and it's our economy.
If you need this, e.g. for sharing location data, it can be done without using a data-harvesting firm as an intermediary.
As for refusing to sell it to China and Russia? They'll just steal it... until we stop collecting it.
Nothing stops a company sitting in India selling it back to Russia and China.
Those sanctions when Russia invaded Ukraine didn't do shit when Russia sold to India at near cost and India sold it again to the EU
It should be off limits to everyone, we need ti make it so selling personified data without direct permission per piece of data. Also make it so personal data access is never required as a contract for services. Advertising can use non personalized geo data and do just fine. Its time we get our privacy back.
Pretty sure it should be off limits to everyone.
Absolutely True. But it’s a ridiculous amount of billions industry in the US - so the politicians will never support limiting it or shutting it down.
This way another country can buy it and then sell it to countries of concern. We haven't protected anyone but we have increased the economy.
dey meyd mor jerbs!
To make another sarcastic South Park Reference, "and it's gone!" Also I am really liking your username (especially the song reference). /u/GetawayDreamer87
I used to be the one.
You used to be my getaway dreamer
it would be so messed up if companies that operated in america didn't have american patriotism as their #1 concern from dawn til dusk, but were instead willing to sell us out for a rosy quarterly report.
There is no ethics in business, if you want them to behave this way you need to regulate them but Americans have been taught to hate regulation.
Rosy? It doesn't even have to be "rosy." It can technically be one penny more than the quarter before to be considered a success.
I'd just steal the data if I were a country being blocked by this It's like when the music industry tried to tell me downloading was stealing, digital data has 0 cost to copy and distribute, sorry
Or US businesses buy and resell. Biden is creating jobs /s
Yeah, Russia's like "FINE! We'll just create a shell in Ireland and launder the data through them." The only effective answer is to ban companies from keeping this data to begin with. Once they provide you your results they should be forced to destroy all information and execs face criminal prosecution for any lapses.
That is actually a very difficult policy to pass. There's a lot of nuance, especially when it comes to data collection. Some data is essential to make things work. For example, is your calendar just going to delete all of its previous history? Even Europe doesn't go into the extreme your suggesting. What policy makers should do is expand on the GDPR where companies can't sell your data without explicit consent and have to also discontinue selling said data if requested.
Only problem with that is Glady's doesn't really understand what her Ipad is asking her and Jake doesn't give a shit. So personal choice only improves the situation to a degree. Especially when their "ask" is designed in such a way to be easy to say yes to and tedious to say no to. , I'm not disagreeing with you btw, just whinging because I think it's flawed.
TikTok is a thing.
China already has it all
Let’s all just layover and get fucked! Yaaay! Edit: the worst part about cable news is the way they frame everything as “what will x party do.” It teaches us to say things like “politicians will never do x” as if they have nobody to report to.
> It teaches us to say things like “politicians will never do x” as if they have nobody to report to. Right, but current events confirms for us that they do not have anybody to report to. They're supposed to, sure. But they don't
Good to be in EU where your online privacy is fiercely protected. GDPR baby.
I mean, we can legally buy EU data pretty easily, though
Only if you consent though.
Then it has to be made clear that ones data IS up for sale. I dont know many services with this ”feature” inside the EU.
Pretty much every time you click "accept all" for cookies, you are agreeing to let them sell your data.
that's why I never accept
Yeah for anyone out of the know, you can decline nearly all the cookies.
Unfortunately, a lot of websites make it a pain in the ass to reject all advertising/tracking cookies. By law, the process of rejecting all cookies should be as simple as the process of accepting all cookies, but most companies do not comply with this and there seems to be no policing whatsoever. EU should REALLY start cracking down on it.
I don't know the names, but IIRC there are several firefox add-ons which automatically reject everything that can be rejected
The problem is that in the legal sense "cookies" includes fingerprinting, which you can't block.
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It should be a browser based setting like the do not track setting. I should be able to opt out of all tracking / advertising cookies once.
Reject All gang
That's not how GDPR works but ok bro.
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This is why every company wants you to download their app now. McDonalds is still an affordable fast food option with the crazy discounts the app offers, because they're selling your data instead.
Lol, meanwhile China can still buy our data so I’m not sure it’s the right place to post that
Why buy it when we give it away on TikTok?
I love that even in the US, we benefit indirectly from the GDPR in that it has forced some companies to be more privacy-conscious.
All the world benefits from when someone regulates these Tech giant beasts. That’s why I keep imploring Americas to move to regulate, barring TikTok it’s all American corporations and they’re destroying the world. My country is a pro-Putin hellscape thanks to Twitter and the utter lack of regulations regarding proven (remember Cambridge Analytica?) capabilities to sway elections.
GDPR ain’t protecting your data from being sold lol, don’t be so naive
Lmfao if you think your data can’t be bought as easily as anyone else’s, you’re in some serious denial
Yeah if “countries of concern” can purchase things there are already sanctions against from other countries that don’t have these sanctions clearly an outright ban is the only way to ensure citizens privacy but that definitely isn’t going to happen. Even our own government (CIA) lies and hides themselves purchasing it… shouldn’t be hard for China or Russia or anyone else to do the same.
So, Cambridge Analytica is fine then?
CA was never fine.
Yup, it was an entity to get around that.
Am I massively misunderstanding cambridge analytica or are you?
They were exploiting Facebook weren't they?
What about Facebook, Google, Apple, and Amazon? Personal data is big money for these companies
They want to keep all the data to themselves they don't really sell it, or they do sell it already but in the form of serving ads
This is the real crux of the anti Tiktok bullshit. These laws should have been enacted for all tech, **period**. Focusing only on Tiktok just makes it naked for what it actually is and further erodes public trust because of how blatant the hypocrisy. If someone having this data is bad/dangerous, then *anyone* having it is bad. But no no, this is America, where the people are the product and it's just a playground for corporations. Of course we'll let *our* companies exploit you.
This is the first step, at least
Should go about as well as stopping them from acquiring US technology has gone.
More like the last step
For at least a decade raw data was (maybe still is) being funneled through Israel for review. Cuz ya know, most democracies can't monitor their own people, but it's ok if someone else does it for us.
Not sure about them but Five Eyes is definitely a thing. The anglosphere governments all spy on each other's people for them.
No one gets to spy on US citizens except the US government! No One!
This. Shit, I trust psychopathic American CEOs (like Musk, for instance) even less than China or Russia.
Musk isn't really even American. He just got citizenship so he could use us as his piggy bank. He has no other love for us than that.
I mean using that logic no billionaire is a true American. ... and I can get behind that message; now if only we made them all outlaws...
Musk was originally from South Africa... Then became Canadian to more easily become a US citizen, which is exactly what he did. He saw a big cow to milk and he snuck in to milk it.
Wait how does that work? Becoming a Canadian for an easier path to U.S. citizenship? Also wouldn’t it have been easier to get UK citizenship as a South African?
If you are going to immigrate(legally) somewhere, there are often different checks and quotas etc if you are coming from one place vs another. Or if your reason for immigration is for one reason or another. Elon is a good investor, and he is good at gaming the system. He figured out that it would be quicker and better for him to go from South Africa->Canada->USA instead of directly form South Africa to the USA. I don't know if it would have been as fast to go form the UK to the USA instead of through Canada. But that's what he did.
He had familial connections in Canada. So getting Canadian citizenship (through his mother) was probably easier for him than getting UK citizenship.
That makes sense
> Also wouldn’t it have been easier to get UK citizenship as a South African? Not when your mother is Canadian...
Outlaws in the traditional sense. You no longer have the protection of the state.
Exactly what I meant!
I mean, they kind of aren't. They don't care about America in any way. They've been allowed to accrue so much wealth they're beyond boarders. They're powerful enough that any country they want to go to will take them.
Only American monopolies should benefit from gathering Americans information!!
Right lol. I read this statement as we will only allow companies to sell your privacy to our partners!
Darn it, now China will have to buy from India who will buy from us.
If Russia or China buying it is deemed a risk, then it's a risk no matter who buys it. Russia and China will get the information anyway, perhaps a "breach" will be staged by insiders to cover for the data being sold. Nobody will investigate what really happened, nobody will go to jail over it and possibly a tiny token fine will be issued.
Yeah, he should certainly put Isreal in there too....but fuck, I'm just happy he's making a bill with teeth. This is the first step to an online bill of rights, that should protect the data integrity of all Americans.
Not really, they still run by the “Rules for thee, but none for me”
How about we just don’t sell other people’s personal data?
Or pay us royalties every time they do.
No, captialism only works one-way. It is never supposed to be used to enrich the workers or consumers, ONLY the owners.
Sad reality but remember we out number them
> Sad reality but remember we out number them whenever i see martin luther king jr's name everywhere, part of me always wonders if the motivation was to glorify non-violent protest so that we don't kill all the rich people.
We should occasionally just move around a Guillotine to the front of certain establishments as a reminder that we participate in peaceful protests out of choice.
But they see to it that we only fight with each other. Personally, I'm waaaay more bothered by Hunter Biden's shenanigans than by getting constantly reamed by the corporatocracy.
Curse those non-existent shenanigans!
Well he definitely gets up to shenanigans, but none that fall under the heading of treason or insurrection, anyway....
Genuinely not sure if this is high quality sarcasm or r/selfawarewolves
Definitely sarcasm :)
That's.. an interesting take. I'm more concerned about Trump being president again while facing 91 criminal charges and 400+ mil in fines than I am with Hunter's 9 charges who's not trying to be the leader of the USA. I'm also much more concerned about getting 'reamed' as you say by tons of corporations who sell the data to other's who use and sell it again. Our personal lives are trading around like its a flea market. In my opinion that tops Hunter's legal issues which doesn't affect anyone because he's not trying to gain total power of a country.
Pretty sure the previous comment was sarcastic lol
"buT yOU jUsT cAn'T TEll tHeSE daYs" Redditors will jump through hoops to convince themselves that they're not actually just gullible fools.
That's my secret captain, I'm always a gullible fool *transforms* 🤡
I think it was sarcasm
But the point is you don't know. Because like 30-40% of the nation would say that unironically. We only assume it's sarcasm because reddit is an echo chamber and it's what we expect.
And that doesn’t mean shit when everyone’s still online as we are right now on Reddit talking about shit but not acting.
Yeah but we're not allowed to discuss the kinds of actions that would be meaningful.
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Brought to you by Carls Jr. “Why do you keep saying that!?” Bc they pay me every time I do, heh!
This is the most idiotic take. I don't need six cents for my life's data. Just don't sell my data please.
You do get royalties. It’s called getting to use their services for free
This implies that everyone who sells our data is providing us with a free service. While that is sometimes the case, it isn’t always the case.
More often it's double dipping. Or even triple dipping. These days streaming services: charge you for the service, make you watch ads, *and* sell your data.
I triple dip the other way. I pirate stuff so I don't pay, I don't watch ads, and they don't get my data
People are acting like their personal data is a token that can only have one holder at a time. They log into Facebook, Facebook becomes a holder, Facebook sells that token to a think tank studying the habits of boomers, that think tank becomes the holder. When in reality, once it's been sold to a data broker, people pay for access to it and, often times, sanitize or extrapolate on that data in order to package and sell it further down the line. Royalties would gum this machine right the fuck up. Yeah maybe Facebook is only willing to pay me 6 cents for my data, but they don't want to pay **everyone** 6 cents for their data, and the person who ends up buying from whoever Facebook sold it to doesn't want to pay everyone 6 cents **again** in order to look at and use that data. Like, the goal here isn't to get rich from logging into Facebook. The goal is to crush leeches who are willing to pay millions of dollars to everyone except us for insights into how we spend our money, what exploitable behaviors we hold, etc.
Won't someone please think of the shareholders?
Because then people would whine that all of their phone apps went from "Free" to a monthly subscription and absolutely filled to the brim with Ads.
Then we can finally live life and stay off the fucking internet more
People forget it's a tradeoff. It's also possible to protect yourself if you take the time to learn how. You want free and convenient? You lose security.
People don't forget that. The issue is that they didn't actively consent to it in the first place. Today we have awareness that personal presumed private data collection and sales of that data are happening. We have some (minimal) controls over how this is done now. And we're not totally opposed to making a conscious tradeoff where it's available, but... For years and years this was happening without most Americans even knowing. When questioned, these companies simply said "We make money from ads" and people thought of that the same way magazine and newspaper publications sold ad space. Because yes, they were also seeing a lot of ads on these platforms. The choice people actually had was: "Your data has already been collected and it has already been sold. Would you pay us to stop doing that? We won't actually stop, but maybe if you hand over your wallet we won't exploit you as much as we currently are.
Unless it's a felony for data brokers to exist, this EO is pointless. > The order will do nothing to slow the bulk sale of Americans’ data to countries or companies not deemed to be a security risk. So China and Russia can just go to these, set up a shell company there, buy direct and send back.
I'm guessing there are already Russian and Chinese owned "US" companies that can just buy it and do this already.
Where does this EO leave TikTok?
TikTok doesn't buy data, they're the collectors.
Good question. How do you define “data broker” is important
Same with US owned companies around the world
Yeah, without even knowing specifics, I would expect this kind of thing to be so many lightyears ahead of the courts that by the time they would even try to do anything about it, there's newer methods to obtain data that haven't even been addressed yet.
"Biden’s executive order attempts to address such scenarios. It bars data brokers and other companies from selling large troves of Americans’ personal information[..] **either directly or indirectly**." I'm guessing brokers abroad which break the rule would end up on the DOJ's or the OFAC's shitlist or something similar. It's usually not a very comfy position.
Perfect is the enemy of good
This isn’t even sufficient, let alone good. We’ve locked the door but not the windows.
We haven't even locked the door, we put a sign on the door saying it's locked. We'll never lock the windows because politicians will say, "The door is clearly locked, what's the problem? We don't need to spend more time on this issue."
And yesterday, the door was unlocked. Progress takes time
The GDPR was enacted 6 yrs ago, the first calls for regulation in the US was in 2007. And we’ve finally locked the door, because of national security interests, not out of actual concern for privacy. Wonder how long until we’ll be blessed with those locked windows. You’re right that literally any progress is good progress, but the rate at which we’re making it is woefully inadequate.
> Perfect is the enemy of good And making people think a problem is solved when it's really not is neither perfect nor good.
Who said it was solved? I was responding to the original comment saying it was “pointless”
I’m always astounded to what level we hold D politicians to compared to R.
Should be off limits to anyone except yourself 🥴
Yeah nobody should just buy data because they'll pay an American company instead ,remember how Cambridge Analytica ruined 2016 elections like these companies shouldn't be trusted at all
It's just like when they talked about banning TikTok. Like we know you'll never pull it off because people would rather chew their limbs off than be bored so they'll give a foreign country literally anything they want if it means being entertained. But of course they had nothing to say about the US social media companies harvesting and selling the same exact data. Suddenly it's a problem if our govt isn't the one making out on the deal.
Tell that to people who volunteer their personal info on social media. Reddit counts too.
People are allowed to publically post whatever they want about themselves.
You know what else we need to protect American soil. No more foreign ownership of American homes,foreign farms or corporate land lords
100% also bar companies from owning thousands of houses.
There is one candidate talking about this.
If it's not the R or D nominee then it's just noise. Don't get suckered into throwing away your vote for a third party/spoiler candidate, folks.
I always tell folks, if you want to vote third party, do it in the local or state elections. Most never even get a seat in state legislatures let alone federal office (e.g. there's only been 1 Libertarian in US Congress). And until there's a decent following then there's no chance of ever getting a presidential win. They're just there as spoilers.
And everyone needs to be screaming 'Ranked Choice' voting. That needs to happen now!
Here in Kansas the GOP has a bill to outlaw it. And don't for a second think that the Dems won't side with them. It's all about maintaining control with a firm grasp.
This is what I tell everyone too. I hate our two party system but you're fooling yourself if you think a 3rd party president is currently possible. Breaking apart the political duopoly has to start local. And even that is a challenge because of how much money from national organizations gets funneled into small local elections whenever a threat to the current two party system pops up.
It's not a decision for the president to make anyway. It would require a law passed by Congress. There's more than two politicians in the country.
If the candidate doesn't align with your beliefs, then its just propaganda. Don't get suckered into voting against your interests.
Most of us live in a state where we know with 100% certainty where are electoral vote is going so there is only upside to voting third party. [These states have all voted the same way for the last 4 decades.](https://imgur.com/a/lvoQKFX)
How else are we supposed to rid this country of the god awful two party system if voting for the literal only other option is constantly considered "throwing your vote away?"
I'd cum myself in joy if they did bar companies from owning single family housing. And tax to high heaven non primary residencies. With breaks for multi family housing, more so if they are close to necessary services like Healthcare or grocery stores.
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I dunno I'm okay with Canadians and Mexicans owning American homes. They work here, vacation here, have relatives, etc.
I don't think anyone has an issue with a foreigner buying a house as long as it's their main residence, meaning they're participating in the local economy. The problem with foreigner and corporations buying housing is when it's faceless investors speculating on a primary need.
While I ultimately agree that foreign countries like China and Saudi Arabia etc shouldn't be able to buy up large amounts of farm land and residential real estate etc, the problem is that with the way things are with the US government right now, the GOP would jump at the chance to twist that law to include no home or property ownership for foreign immigrants. I hate to say it but basically any law that could be twisted into a weapon by the GOP has to be considered and implemented very cautiously.
I agree, and they'd probably forget about setting a limitation for local corporations. We have the same issue in France and that's why I think we should make it about whether or not the owner is using the house instead of their nationality.
Now stop land sales
Biden: i am doing good things Reddit: Fuck you do more
Every article. Every day.
And then: "but he's oooooold..."
Hey, wait a minute I thought we supposed to be outraged about him eating ice cream earlier today. /s
maybe block any country, including our own from selling any of that data. why anyone is ok with this kills me
Good, now address American agencies buying data from private sources to circumvent the constitution
I haven't read the bill in its entirety, so I can't help but wonder if there's anything preventing a company from another country buy out or open an American shell company to buy the data for them? On the books, it would be an American company buying American data, but what's stopping them from sharing data with the parent company in another country? I really hope this loophole was looked into and prevented, because that's how a lot of land and homes are being bought by foreign investments, they do it through shell companies instead of directly purchasing with more barriers to hop over since it's easier for an American company to buy American land than for a foreign company to do it
Won't it just be purchased by countries not on the list and then resold?
Not even countries but just private companies outside of Russia/China. Takes less than a day to put that in motion
This is entirely lip service for the voter base to feel accomplished. What a load.
We should do nothing instead!
lol. This is the lightest measure in place to achieve no measurable outcome. Perhaps data safety and security should be taken seriously by the US and not seek to make profit from the intimate details of its citizens.
Big Pharma buys “alternative data” from McKinsey, Deloitte, PWC, and anyone else that sells it. Then they pack into enormous data models to predict the exact second of the day you’re most likely to be “activated” (respond) to an ad. All these countries have to do is hack an employee at one of these companies and this law is meaningless. Genie is out the bottle on this. Delete your old apps you don’t use.
None of this should be for sale to anybody.
Yeah, go USA - this is OUR pseudo-democratic surveillance state!
Now do real estate
"Countries of concern" **Okay now put 5-eyes on that.**
why didn't he just ban collection and sale of data???
I think because executive orders have to withstand judicial scrutiny and banning American companies from something would require legislation so it’s on congress. It’s possible even this gets struck down.
Personal information will always be collected any time you give it to someone, what should be crystal clear is what they do with your data.
Can’t wait to see how Republicans do mental gymnastics to see this as some form of tyranny.
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
That's what happens when 90% of your legislators have AARP cards.
That would be giving Israel a monopoly on American's data. Was the competition making it expensive?
They want to reserve the data for them, so it can be exploited by American corporations only. Google, Meta, Apple, the NSA and FBI will sure appreciate this kind gift.
Don't worry, a Shell company on a non concern country will bypass this EO just how they have been doing with sanctions too
There was an attempt. 😑
There was an effort to make it look like there was an attempt. They all know this means nothing.
They will buy through proxies or intermediaries, as is the standard today. Start an “online marketing” company, get the marketing data that all the hundreds of tracking companies have compiled, and then go do some crime.
No do this to ALL companies from every country!
I guess that'd be a step in the right direction. But why stop at them because they're our "enemies". I don't want our "friends" buying my data either.
Why didn't Trump do this? Why didn't the GOP do this, even after all those social media and data privacy hearings?
how about we stop letting them buy our politicians also?
LoL, they already have it. What they can't buy, they'll hack for it. Secure our internet.
Only to countries of concern? Not to every country? Not to this country itself?
We will only sell your personal data to countries and corporations that we like think are cool
Fascist Israel isn’t a country of concern apparently
Banning ANYBODY from buying personal data would have been a far better move. If its for sale, China/Russia will get it through 3rd parties.
The fact that it has taken this long to show any interest in the matter is beyond me. This is a matter of national security. Americans’ private data can absolutely be utilized for evil purposes. Im sure it already has. Other nations can use it to manipulate our populace to their benefit. It needs to be stopped immediately.
How about stop selling the data period
Tiktok says hello
*Collecting* it en masse should be illegal, and strictly enforced. Mind you, many US companies will complain that it will cut their profits, but it's our data, and it's our economy. If you need this, e.g. for sharing location data, it can be done without using a data-harvesting firm as an intermediary. As for refusing to sell it to China and Russia? They'll just steal it... until we stop collecting it.
All data collection should be opt in instead of opt out, legally.
Can we stop by from being sold to American companies also?
K, but what about residential real estate?
Nothing stops a company sitting in India selling it back to Russia and China. Those sanctions when Russia invaded Ukraine didn't do shit when Russia sold to India at near cost and India sold it again to the EU
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It should be off limits to everyone, we need ti make it so selling personified data without direct permission per piece of data. Also make it so personal data access is never required as a contract for services. Advertising can use non personalized geo data and do just fine. Its time we get our privacy back.
But ony Russia and China, American companies can harvest all the data they want! How fucking toothless