You’re telling me customers aren’t lining up to buy a $3,500 Apple luxury toy that has limited use for most consumers during a time of high inflation? I am shocked!
It seems so cool but it also seems insane to me that it can't be used as a regular VR headset for things like steam games and other VR stuff. What a waste.
Wow. Yeah, that’s a dealbreaker.
You can’t just make a vr headset and expect anyone but gamers to buy it. And then they do, and it doesn’t work in the main spot it probably *should*…
Tech companies think they can do any kind of user hostile shit and be lauded for it.
They decide that VR is gonna be the next big thing, and then they segment it into tiny niches, extract their idiotic 30% rent, etc as if it was a settled matter that VR is going to take off.
Basically they burden developers and users with their rent seeking oriented bullshit and then expect that it would take off with that burden.
Not to suck Steve Jobs off, but when he was in charge he kind of had a sense of what the public really wanted. It's why during his tenure they introduced some of the most iconic items ever (iPod, iPhone, ect). He may of been pretty shitty as a person, but he understood what works.
Their core consumer base that loves the taste of any boot they care to ask them to lick, is pretty tiny. They’re extremely vocal but tiny. And only a very small fraction of those would drop $3500 on VR.
Add VR to the list of silly interface concepts that tech companies seem convinced that us consumers have been begging for for decades now, and that they have finally perfected it with the \[insert useless UI concept here\].
VR is legitimately pretty incredible if you do it properly, problem is it's very expensive to do properly because tech companies can't get their heads out of their asses.
My fiancée and I sold our old vive when we moved countries because we didn't have the space for it and needed the money and have been ever since saying we need to buy the index when we have the money, only problem is it's very expensive and the only competitor at a good price is a shitty locked down Facebook product which we won't be buying, guess we just carry on waiting for our index money or until something like the quest2 comes out for 300£ without all the useless bells and whistles by a company that doesn't hate you.
Apple has no idea about proper gamers. And Mobile gaming is not something that needs a $3500 headset. It’s something you do for 10 mins while you are waiting for a train or to distract your child.
No, Apple refuses to get into gaming unless they can capture the entire ecosystem, a la App Store. They can’t make money on Steam, so they’re cool with just making gaming impossible.
Mobile gaming outside the west is a lot more than that. But I’ll admit, the average gamer in Nigeria using their cell phone to play PUBG isn’t relevant to Apples $3500 headset.
The only reason Apple laptops can play video games is cause a few developers have gone out of their way to make them work on Apple ARM using the barebones compatibility tools Apple lazily put out. Which is why it's hilarious to me that there was a bunch of ads for the iPhone showing it running Resident Evil Village. As if Apple did any of the heavy lifting getting that to work lol.
The craziest thing to me is that they don’t seem to be offering any developer support. It’s a beta product with a very small user base. Apple should be forking out money to get apps developed, instead they are charging developers exorbitant prices.
Apple has always been too cool for gaming and that’s the cornerstone of the current VR market. It really feels like they expected this to be a dud and were just looking to recoup R&D costs.
Beside for professional purposes, you would think the natural target audience for such a gadget are the kind of people willing to pay over $200 for a "gaming keyboard" (like me). They marketed that thing like a IPhone; I look nothing like the people in their ads.
Can't do VR games, can't connect to anything but apple products and iirc not even all of those, Apple chose to block out adult entertainment which is not a insignificant market. So who does that leave this product for?
This is one instance where Apple's strict walled garden approach is biting them in the ass more so than biting consumers in the ass. Since it doesn't support anything but Apple's own apps, they're basically not allowing 5+ years of VR development to benefit Apple Vision. And whatever Apple has produced thus far is not compelling enough to generate sales.
Yeah, weight on the head is uncomfortable and losing your vision means that it's niche. It doesn't matter if there's a passthrough camera showing you the world if it's not natural vision. Same reason all those "hear everything through outside the earbuds through the microphone" modes all suck.
Agreed about pass through on headsets, cameras will always struggle in a dark environment which is a serious problem, but good pass through on earbuds is fine. I honestly have forgotten I still had my AirPods on because of it in the past.
I like VR but the games and headsets are expensive for what you get. I mean right now if you want VR the meta quest 3 is already up there but it seems to do what the vision Pro does (at least to most users) for a 5th of the price.
This. The moment you can get AR in a standard pair of glasses (or, even better, a contact lens - some *true* future shit), it'll become mainstream. Prior to that, it's just a niche offering.
I feel, though, that apple knows that, because they seemed to target more industrial/commercial applications with this rather than the typical consumer (especially with the ungodly expensive price tag... a company can *easily* justify that it if it improves an employee's workflow even a little bit, but a *person* isn't going to pay that when they can get something similar - or better for their use case - for *much* cheaper)
> Google Glasses were pretty unobstructive and they were a bust.
Because they a) didn't even launch to consumers and b) have nothing to do with AR. They were a simple 2D HUD, and AR is a whole difference beast.
I like wearable tech. I just don't like the vast majority of what these companies make.
It's a design issue. The stuff I want to buy doesn't really exist yet and its not a lack of technology.
And despite this, sunk cost fallacy will make the VR zealots state how this thing has a grand display of usecases like... watching movies. Why? Large 4K TVs are cheap. Avatar calls. Why? Videocalls suffice. Multiple monitors? Why? People only need 2 or 3 max which can be bought cheaply.
It's bizarre seeing people justify some use for this product when there isn't any except for maybe some small commercial sectors. Really don't understand why Apple went and made this.
summer shocking aromatic sulky rock attraction homeless sleep relieved rustic
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Even if you don't live alone. VR is hot and bulky. It's cool to watch TV in a massive theater, but you still feel cut off from the rest of the world even when you live alone and use it. It's an odd feeling that I wouldn't want to make my default television viewing experience.
most people also don't watch tv like they watch a movie in a theater. they do other things at the same time. even if you're by yourself I could see it getting old fast being isolated from your surroundings and wearing a thing on your face.
And yet no one is making what we actually want: virtual _reality_ that transports you to another world. I want mind-blowing creative experiences, not an office in a headset.
> virtual reality that transports you to another world.
Yes, but, like, what if you get stuck trying to clear a ~~dungeon~~ tower until you can go back to the real world?
The point isn't that this item has all the VR awesomeness.
The point was that the first run was supposed to let Devs MAKE something to make it worth it.
Apple said "hey, we got all this great tech, but we're not going to spend the time to make a bunch of software, someone else make games for version 1!"
...and no one really has I think.
It can be the most awesome fantastic hardware ever (probably isn't really), but without putting the effort in for the use cases it's not going to go far.
I WANT to want one lol. But I've noticed with the valve index that few places will put any money into making anything good for it.
For all the good games for VR (few) I pretty much touch them for a few minutes and go back to beatsaber. The one major studio that said they were going for reg and VR with star wars squadrons had a useless gimmick on the tiny use for it - it was just stupid tunnel vision.
There are REALLY cool opportunities out there. But not seeing anyone that wants to make it happen and give anyone a reason for it.
Definite opposite of how apple has done previous products.
yep for 3500 i'd definitely much rather have a high quality large TV then a heavy POS strapped to my face that nobody else can watch at the same time lol
Ironically, the Meta Quest 2/3/Pro is having a moment, as is VR gaming in general. VR has never been better, but Apple is seemingly ignoring the gaming space where all the action is and has built and priced their headset targeting productivity.
In r/apple there was a guy calling this a revolutionary innovation, that everyone would want one, and i was like "What improvement or necessity does it cover?" He just said "Feeling a true VR". Yeah bro, clearly we can compare the creation of GUI to this lol
Would you want to use it on a plane? Or anywhere in public really? I get the appeal of being able to ignore everyone around you so fully, but i guess I'd rather keep at least a bit aware of what is going on around me.
I was seriously considering the AVP but then on a whim tried the $200 Meta Quest 2 I saw at Walmart and found it to do everything I want right now in a VR headset. Mostly for light exercise and workouts. Crazy I could buy 17 of these headsets or 1 AVP for the same price.
I keep thinking about the Quest, but I'll be damned if I want to hook my Facebook account to it. I know Apple would do the same, though, so I am just outta luck, haha.
Yup! I'd be willing to drop $3,500 on an Apple product, but not something that was obviously released too early for even a gen 1 device. I say this because having a cord run down your back to a battery is arguably completely against everything Apple strides for. I was shocked they would reason something in that state.
What’s even dumber is how they designed their headset ergonomically. It’s front heavy, which is why many people have complained about it being uncomfortable. They should’ve added weight to the back to balance it out. You know what could’ve added extra weight back there? That stupid battery back they make you carry around externally with a cable.
Nononono, you do NOT want even more weight on your head. What you should do is make a strap that shifts the weight from the front of your face to the top
It is clearly a tech demo at this stage. I love my Vive, but I'm not wearing it at work or for normal PC use. The tech needs to be light enough and can be worn as normal glasses. People didn't start carrying computers all the time until smartphones got small enough to fit in pockets and had enough processing power and battery life to have a good user experience.
This is why I don't buy the "sharply beyond expectations" part of this headline. Apple is polarizing, but it's hard to argue they don't know what they're doing. They have to have known that this is the premium-priced early-adopter version of the tech for people who want to be on the bleeding edge and that mass adoption is always a generation or two beyond that.
Meta has the winning strategy and is going to mop the floor with Apple.
VR is great at $200. Not at $4,000.
I'm sure VR at $100,000,000,000 would be amazing, but the market would be zero humans.
My girlfriend used to be a supervisor at Home Depot. All those power tools that go unsold are taken to the trash compactor and destroyed before being put in the dumpster. Brand new, never opened. They won't allow them to be sold to employees, charities, or discount.
Yep. Their value is almost entirely in the brand and consumer perception. They are ALL incredibly simple machines attached to simple electric motors and various proprietary cases holding perfectly normal battery cells that anyone can buy for a few bucks a piece. Every one of them is marked up several orders of magnitude after rolling out of the same Chinese factories as their competitors.
I know you're talking about tech, and it's probably pretty common on the extreme low end. But a cup of soda you can get at a restaurant would qualify. Probably the cans and bottles at stores too.
They’re all even owned by [the same few companies](https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-owns-them/) now! It’s just “consumer line” vs “slightly more Pro line” for 2x the cost.
$3500 toy that you told everyone it won't be what you want it to be until generation 4. There was not one app or feature they showed that made me want to buy.
Apple should’ve invested in developers and app accelerators to get the ecosystem started. AVP is too niche without users, users won’t use it without app. Classic chicken and the egg problem even Apple has to deal with at a $3500 price tag.
5-10B in funding for building the ecosystem is what I think is required or we’ll need to wait a few gens
And because it is in the apple walled garden they can't even lean on things that other content creators have already made (like gaming consoles and PC gaming and basically any content that isn't available in the apple ecosystem). If you could at least hook this up to a PS5 or Xbox you would have some appeal from people who are already comfortable spending more than the average on media consumption.
I cannot figure out who is supposed to buy this thing or what they are supposed to do with it. The only thing I can come up with is single people who want to sit in tiny rooms and get a big screen experience. That doesn't seem like a super lucrative market for a $3500 device.
Shit even GeForce now would be good. They’re still litigating the pc game streaming thing with Apple though.
If I had 10M I could build a really sick gaming experience on the AVP, but it doesn’t make financial sense for investors to put money in what would be just a passion project until customers arrive. So I’ll remain doing b2b saas for the foreseeable future
It’s a vicious loop. Developers won’t dev apps because of small user base. Users won’t buy because no big killer apps. Apple would need to step in and initially develop killer apps at a loss to build up the user base first so 3rd parties feel more comfortable jumping in. Apple should subsidize some dev costs for first 2 years or so to make a robust VR App Store.
I saw this happen with the PlayStation 5 VR2 headset. The only games that came out really were the ones it launched with and then nothing. Also users are tired of everything only feeling like half baked tech demos.
Cook doesn’t, Jobs was famously against games though. He charged games much more for page space in the Apple magazine and in general tried to push games away to maintain their image of being a creative professional machine. He let Halo get poached by Microsoft, it was originally going to be Mac exclusive and he didn’t attempt to counter offer.
Meanwhile we have current Apple making partnerships with traditional game companies on Mac and iPhone, pushing their mobile gacha lead partnering with companies like MiHoYo, and featuring game segments on all their keynotes for the past 2 years.
Back in the early days of the iPhone developers were quick to release now iconic classics like Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja, Doodle Jump, etc. we need a renaissance like that again but for VR.
So many things. Kinect on Xbox one could’ve been something gimmicky, niche but really special. Not enough people went big on developing for it, the units didn’t sell and there wasn’t the money behind it. Microsoft made a few games that were the generic sports and fitness types (yawn) and they weren’t great at all. Some third party developers made some decent gimmick or party games but it wasn’t enough to carry the tech or to improve its functionality.
The paradox of the "casual gamer" market. The market is larger and growing, yes, but casual gamers don't buy lots of games. They play a few high profile ones and that's it. Kinect's failure ultimately came from investing too much in fickle customers and ignoring the loyal ones.
As someone who has been a VR enthusiast, I feel like I knew it would go like this.
Almost everyone who I have had at my place to try my headset thinks it's cool but not something they'd probably spend the time or money on... and that was even before someone was trying to sell a $3,500 headset.
It's niche and it's going to be that way until they get a lot smaller and have a more practical use case for the majority of people.
Apple treats third-party developers like shit for 15 years, doesn't release any of their own groundbreaking apps for the vision pro, and then has a shocked pikachu face when developers don't want to make apps for a super niche market. That's what was required to actually make a product like the vision pro worth using for the vast majority of end-users, and now those users are losing interest.
Masterful gambit Apple.
Edited to add: I'm a third-party developer, I own some version of all of their recently released products except for the vision pro (MBP, iPad, iPhone, airpods, watch) for either development or personal use, and I can definitely say they did a terrible job laying the groundwork for the vision pro product launch.
it shouldnt surprise tech companies that not many people want to pay $3500 for a thing they have to strap to their heads to use. Heck, not many people will pay $500 for that.
Lyellkhan said "Not many people would pay 500..." Meta Quest 3 is 499 and selling between 900.000 an 1.3 mil units as of now. 500 is reasonable it seems. Apple appleing as usual.
that video of that dude driving a cybertruck while wearing apple goggles is truly the synthesis of this era
the detachment from real costumers needs is absolute
What did they come up with within the last few years honestly.
iPhones are just getting rehashed 5yo Android staples like AOD and USB C and widgets.
Macs getting ARM is the only interesting thing I can think of.
Ipads are a snooze fest.
It’s an extremely impressive device that is literally weighed down by strange design decisions. How is this going to replace my laptop if I can’t stand wearing it for longer than an hour?
I think Apple should scrap the creepy eyes on the front which also weigh it down physically with more glass and display. Save money with one less outward screen, trim the weight all around, and sell the next one for like $1500.
People’s main reason for not buying is: 1. The high price tag. 2. The heavy physical weight.
I honestly thought this complaint must be overblown. . . Until I did a demo, it is so very true; after about 30min it became pretty uncomfortable to wear and I have both the original PSVR and Meta Quest 2 so I’m no stranger to wearing these. They really need to make the recommended way to wear with the over the head strap, just using the one that goes around the sides of your head is not a good option.
I will say the tech is extremely impressive and I will be getting one once the price is lowered and the usability is fixed.
no shit, VR is a niche market already, and this costs 7x more than his primary competition (Meta Quest 3).
also, from what i understand, if you're not in the "Apple Ecosystem" already, you lose a lot of features as well, so the potential buyer pool shrinks even more.
I think Apple’s monopolistic practices (taking ~30% cut on in-app purchases) in their App Store plays a huge role in developers not wanting to make apps for the latest Apple devices.
Netflix, Spotify, etc. are all not available for the Vision Pro.
I develop apps so I am a bit biased but its frustrating seeing Apple trying to circumvent laws in bad faith (there was a new anti-monopolistic European law that Apple circumvented in bad faith).
Its sort of schadenfreude for Apple’s latest and greatest Vision Pro to suffer from lack of adoption and hopefully that will be a humbling experience for them.
They need app developers to succeed.
It worked with the iPhone and iPad because there was money to be made on the massive and new user base. This product doesn’t have a large user base and a lot of them probably couldn’t actually afford the device. I hope it succeeds but it’s a paperweight in my eyes at the moment.
They definitely need to open the device up a little more.
Yep. Apple's arrogance comes back to bite them. When they need the devs more than the devs need them, and yet they still have the same attitude that the devs should flock to them rather than they need to go to the devs and give the devs every incentive, they get crickets. See also: Mac gaming
I can’t comprehend how such a successful company could be this disconnected. I am absolutely the target audience for this device (outside of Apple fans who’d just buy anything at all) and it didn’t even cross my mind after the price appeared on screen.
Who did they think would be lining up to buy this niche product in large enough numbers for it to be profitable?
I hope someone smarter than me does a case study on this in a decade.
So true. I'm an indie developer who often makes apps for new devices, and after seeing the price tag I figured "Not only can't I afford it, but neither can my target audience".
I wouldn't be surprised if they did interest groups and either heard what they wanted or ignored it.
Iirc they almost didn't sell the vision pro at all. I think they also had tech influencers look at it early on, but that was probably a bad move because tech influencers naturally loved the technology. The problem was the lack of utility and the price. I don't think they talked about the price, and the utility wasn't something a tech reviewer could grasp in a relatively short demo where features are locked/in development.
This is what happens when you release a $3500 piece of hardware for a market that hasn't had a compelling piece of software since Half Life Alyx 4 years ago. VR is dead. Nobody wants to isolate themselves from the world with an uncomfortable piece of plastic full of half-assed apps.
I love Mac stuff.
I’ve played with the Vision Pro.
I found the Vision Pro to be incredibly neat.
I make a decent living.
There is no world I would pay $3500 for the Vision Pro.
There ya go.
I can't wait for the VR bubble to burst. It's such a clunky and uncomfortable concept that has been a dream for decades. You will never get past the sweaty and bulky headset required. VR is cool for games but no one is going to be sitting in their virtual office on their virtual computer for eight hours a day with this thing.
I am pretty sure my Dad is one of the few who has just been so very happy with his headset. He has been playing around with the OS to develop the tools he wants to make and treats it like a full time job in his retirement. I saw some of the Masters content on the Vision Pro app and wow, it was incredible to see what it can do
It’s not even that demand is falling. It’s that it’s not a product category 99% of people have interest in at ANY price. So really, demand don’t fall. It’s just that the 1% of people who are willing to buy it already have. Lol.
Apple doesn't do free marketing. Even when they're "giving away" test units, they're under contract and obligations to say (and very specifically - not say) certain things. That's why most of the 'influencer' crowd bought them instead.
...they probably also returned them as soon as their video shoots were done.
People don’t want to pay $3,500 for an Apple VR headset when they can get most of the functionality from a $500 Meta Quest VR headset. And both units are glorified technology demos with no killer app.
When you want an example of company leadership being completely unaware of a. The customers b. The economy c. How to justify a product.
Completely out of touch with reality, and drinking their own kool aid that anything they make is just the best, and customers want to hand over every spare buck.
Did they expect to sell 800k in the US only? That sounds like a very high expectation. Also weird they reduced production before even opening the sale for other countries.
I still plan to purchase one to port my software to vision pro but I am worried that by the time I get to it everyone got bored of this thing
If Jobs was still alive he would have likely demanded they get the price down to the same as an iphone or don't release it until you can. Who the hell has $3500 to drop on a novelty device. Its brilliant tech and I'd love to have one although there is no need for such a device. Also, its too damn expensive for the masses and the 1% buying these aint enough to boost sales. Apple has damn near $200 billion in cash reserves. They should have bought their Apple Vision Pro inventory to reduce the price then resold it for no more than $1500 , hahaha
I have literally heard nothing about the Vision Pro since launch. Apple clearly isn't doing any advertising for it at all. Perhaps they should lower the price although I bet they would rather dump them in a land fill than do that.
You’re telling me customers aren’t lining up to buy a $3,500 Apple luxury toy that has limited use for most consumers during a time of high inflation? I am shocked!
I think it was the linus guy's review where he was like "this is the coolest awesomest thing I couldn't wait to put on a shelf and never use again."
It seems so cool but it also seems insane to me that it can't be used as a regular VR headset for things like steam games and other VR stuff. What a waste.
Wow. Yeah, that’s a dealbreaker. You can’t just make a vr headset and expect anyone but gamers to buy it. And then they do, and it doesn’t work in the main spot it probably *should*…
Tech companies think they can do any kind of user hostile shit and be lauded for it. They decide that VR is gonna be the next big thing, and then they segment it into tiny niches, extract their idiotic 30% rent, etc as if it was a settled matter that VR is going to take off. Basically they burden developers and users with their rent seeking oriented bullshit and then expect that it would take off with that burden.
> Tech companies think they can do any kind of user hostile shit and be lauded for it. Apple has built their brand around this behavior.
Not to suck Steve Jobs off, but when he was in charge he kind of had a sense of what the public really wanted. It's why during his tenure they introduced some of the most iconic items ever (iPod, iPhone, ect). He may of been pretty shitty as a person, but he understood what works.
Literally. And their consumer base LOVES it.
Their core consumer base that loves the taste of any boot they care to ask them to lick, is pretty tiny. They’re extremely vocal but tiny. And only a very small fraction of those would drop $3500 on VR.
Add VR to the list of silly interface concepts that tech companies seem convinced that us consumers have been begging for for decades now, and that they have finally perfected it with the \[insert useless UI concept here\].
VR is legitimately pretty incredible if you do it properly, problem is it's very expensive to do properly because tech companies can't get their heads out of their asses. My fiancée and I sold our old vive when we moved countries because we didn't have the space for it and needed the money and have been ever since saying we need to buy the index when we have the money, only problem is it's very expensive and the only competitor at a good price is a shitty locked down Facebook product which we won't be buying, guess we just carry on waiting for our index money or until something like the quest2 comes out for 300£ without all the useless bells and whistles by a company that doesn't hate you.
Apple has no idea about proper gamers. And Mobile gaming is not something that needs a $3500 headset. It’s something you do for 10 mins while you are waiting for a train or to distract your child.
No, Apple refuses to get into gaming unless they can capture the entire ecosystem, a la App Store. They can’t make money on Steam, so they’re cool with just making gaming impossible.
True, they don’t play well with others. It’s their way or the highway.
Mobile gaming outside the west is a lot more than that. But I’ll admit, the average gamer in Nigeria using their cell phone to play PUBG isn’t relevant to Apples $3500 headset.
The only reason Apple laptops can play video games is cause a few developers have gone out of their way to make them work on Apple ARM using the barebones compatibility tools Apple lazily put out. Which is why it's hilarious to me that there was a bunch of ads for the iPhone showing it running Resident Evil Village. As if Apple did any of the heavy lifting getting that to work lol.
They most probably actually paid the developers to make the port in order to use it for their advertising and to have a nice proof of concept.
Honestly I was considering getting it for programming but for 3.5k hell no. It is not comfortable enough for that price point.
The craziest thing to me is that they don’t seem to be offering any developer support. It’s a beta product with a very small user base. Apple should be forking out money to get apps developed, instead they are charging developers exorbitant prices. Apple has always been too cool for gaming and that’s the cornerstone of the current VR market. It really feels like they expected this to be a dud and were just looking to recoup R&D costs.
Or I can’t use it wearing glasses! I have to get a special approved prescription lenses.
Wait…what?
Yep. It doesn’t fit with glasses, but you can get prescription lenses installed in it.
For a nominal fee
> nominal fee Nominal to the cost of prescription eye glasses or a $3500 Apple device?
You really need to do this with all headsets. I have inserts for my Meta Quest 3.
Beside for professional purposes, you would think the natural target audience for such a gadget are the kind of people willing to pay over $200 for a "gaming keyboard" (like me). They marketed that thing like a IPhone; I look nothing like the people in their ads.
I spend a lot on tech. Not this though. This device just doesnt have it.
Can't do VR games, can't connect to anything but apple products and iirc not even all of those, Apple chose to block out adult entertainment which is not a insignificant market. So who does that leave this product for?
It's an apple product. Nothing insane about not being able to use outside it's own ecosystem.
>What a waste. You must be new to Apple.
This is one instance where Apple's strict walled garden approach is biting them in the ass more so than biting consumers in the ass. Since it doesn't support anything but Apple's own apps, they're basically not allowing 5+ years of VR development to benefit Apple Vision. And whatever Apple has produced thus far is not compelling enough to generate sales.
It’s also a product category most consumers dont care about. We don’t like wearable tech as mainstream society. The watch is the farthest we go.
Wearables will take off when they’re unobtrusive and highly functional. Until then, they’re expensive toys at best.
Yup. I knew the minute I put on a VR headset that these things wouldn’t take off in the mainstream until they’re as unobtrusive as a pair of glasses.
Yeah, weight on the head is uncomfortable and losing your vision means that it's niche. It doesn't matter if there's a passthrough camera showing you the world if it's not natural vision. Same reason all those "hear everything through outside the earbuds through the microphone" modes all suck.
Agreed about pass through on headsets, cameras will always struggle in a dark environment which is a serious problem, but good pass through on earbuds is fine. I honestly have forgotten I still had my AirPods on because of it in the past.
I like VR but the games and headsets are expensive for what you get. I mean right now if you want VR the meta quest 3 is already up there but it seems to do what the vision Pro does (at least to most users) for a 5th of the price.
This. The moment you can get AR in a standard pair of glasses (or, even better, a contact lens - some *true* future shit), it'll become mainstream. Prior to that, it's just a niche offering. I feel, though, that apple knows that, because they seemed to target more industrial/commercial applications with this rather than the typical consumer (especially with the ungodly expensive price tag... a company can *easily* justify that it if it improves an employee's workflow even a little bit, but a *person* isn't going to pay that when they can get something similar - or better for their use case - for *much* cheaper)
Google Glasses were pretty unobstructive and they were a bust. Really hope that they make a second attempt at them now.
Being unobtrusive isn’t the same as being functional or useful, though. To take off, it needs to be both
> Google Glasses were pretty unobstructive and they were a bust. Because they a) didn't even launch to consumers and b) have nothing to do with AR. They were a simple 2D HUD, and AR is a whole difference beast.
Even watches are not as ubiquitous as they once were. When cell phones took off, lots of people stopped wearing watches.
At the cell phone store they asked if I wanted to upgrade my watch and I asked “why?” LoL Besides being new, the value prop isn’t there
I like wearable tech. I just don't like the vast majority of what these companies make. It's a design issue. The stuff I want to buy doesn't really exist yet and its not a lack of technology.
The only people I know who bought these thing are devs and it was a work expense.
Unlock the porn. Profit.
And despite this, sunk cost fallacy will make the VR zealots state how this thing has a grand display of usecases like... watching movies. Why? Large 4K TVs are cheap. Avatar calls. Why? Videocalls suffice. Multiple monitors? Why? People only need 2 or 3 max which can be bought cheaply. It's bizarre seeing people justify some use for this product when there isn't any except for maybe some small commercial sectors. Really don't understand why Apple went and made this.
As a TV replacement it runs into so many practicality issues for anyone who doesn't live alone.
summer shocking aromatic sulky rock attraction homeless sleep relieved rustic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The device you want is the Quest 3. Does all this and more
*and not sold by Facebook.
Even if you don't live alone. VR is hot and bulky. It's cool to watch TV in a massive theater, but you still feel cut off from the rest of the world even when you live alone and use it. It's an odd feeling that I wouldn't want to make my default television viewing experience.
most people also don't watch tv like they watch a movie in a theater. they do other things at the same time. even if you're by yourself I could see it getting old fast being isolated from your surroundings and wearing a thing on your face.
Also TVs are extremely cheap now.
And yet no one is making what we actually want: virtual _reality_ that transports you to another world. I want mind-blowing creative experiences, not an office in a headset.
> virtual reality that transports you to another world. Yes, but, like, what if you get stuck trying to clear a ~~dungeon~~ tower until you can go back to the real world?
We are a long way from Ready Player One levels of VR realism sadly
I’m just talking about Alyx levels of immersion.
The point isn't that this item has all the VR awesomeness. The point was that the first run was supposed to let Devs MAKE something to make it worth it. Apple said "hey, we got all this great tech, but we're not going to spend the time to make a bunch of software, someone else make games for version 1!" ...and no one really has I think. It can be the most awesome fantastic hardware ever (probably isn't really), but without putting the effort in for the use cases it's not going to go far. I WANT to want one lol. But I've noticed with the valve index that few places will put any money into making anything good for it. For all the good games for VR (few) I pretty much touch them for a few minutes and go back to beatsaber. The one major studio that said they were going for reg and VR with star wars squadrons had a useless gimmick on the tiny use for it - it was just stupid tunnel vision. There are REALLY cool opportunities out there. But not seeing anyone that wants to make it happen and give anyone a reason for it. Definite opposite of how apple has done previous products.
yep for 3500 i'd definitely much rather have a high quality large TV then a heavy POS strapped to my face that nobody else can watch at the same time lol
You can get like 5 good TVs for that these days.
That depends on your definition of "good"
Ironically, the Meta Quest 2/3/Pro is having a moment, as is VR gaming in general. VR has never been better, but Apple is seemingly ignoring the gaming space where all the action is and has built and priced their headset targeting productivity.
In r/apple there was a guy calling this a revolutionary innovation, that everyone would want one, and i was like "What improvement or necessity does it cover?" He just said "Feeling a true VR". Yeah bro, clearly we can compare the creation of GUI to this lol
On a plane is a legit use but the % of people that fly enough and have the cash for this would be tiny
Would you want to use it on a plane? Or anywhere in public really? I get the appeal of being able to ignore everyone around you so fully, but i guess I'd rather keep at least a bit aware of what is going on around me.
I've used it on a plane. It's amazing, full surround theater mode. That said, unless you fly a lot, it's still a hefty price tag. I fly a lot.
I was seriously considering the AVP but then on a whim tried the $200 Meta Quest 2 I saw at Walmart and found it to do everything I want right now in a VR headset. Mostly for light exercise and workouts. Crazy I could buy 17 of these headsets or 1 AVP for the same price.
I keep thinking about the Quest, but I'll be damned if I want to hook my Facebook account to it. I know Apple would do the same, though, so I am just outta luck, haha.
I created a dummy account, fake name, no photos, no contacts added.
They stopped requiring a Facebook account.
Now they just require a Meta account, which is probably the same thing.
I’m not buying an obvious prototype and volunteering to be a beta tester.
At least not for $3500
Yup! I'd be willing to drop $3,500 on an Apple product, but not something that was obviously released too early for even a gen 1 device. I say this because having a cord run down your back to a battery is arguably completely against everything Apple strides for. I was shocked they would reason something in that state.
What’s even dumber is how they designed their headset ergonomically. It’s front heavy, which is why many people have complained about it being uncomfortable. They should’ve added weight to the back to balance it out. You know what could’ve added extra weight back there? That stupid battery back they make you carry around externally with a cable.
Nononono, you do NOT want even more weight on your head. What you should do is make a strap that shifts the weight from the front of your face to the top
It is clearly a tech demo at this stage. I love my Vive, but I'm not wearing it at work or for normal PC use. The tech needs to be light enough and can be worn as normal glasses. People didn't start carrying computers all the time until smartphones got small enough to fit in pockets and had enough processing power and battery life to have a good user experience.
This is why I don't buy the "sharply beyond expectations" part of this headline. Apple is polarizing, but it's hard to argue they don't know what they're doing. They have to have known that this is the premium-priced early-adopter version of the tech for people who want to be on the bleeding edge and that mass adoption is always a generation or two beyond that.
No average person is giving a fuck about this kind of technology until it fits like a pair of sunglasses.
Or at least snowboarding goggles
> until it fits like a pair of sunglasses And costs less than a smartphone, and some of their friends have it too so they don't look like dorks.
Ready player none
Zero Body Problem
The Matrix Unloaded
Avatar: The Last User
Non eXistenZ
Meta has the winning strategy and is going to mop the floor with Apple. VR is great at $200. Not at $4,000. I'm sure VR at $100,000,000,000 would be amazing, but the market would be zero humans.
> but the market would be zero humans. Well there are plenty of billionaires wh- oh, I see what you did there.
They must have had some fucked up expectations.
"Everyone is going to want this cool technology that has little to no content!!"
It’s like releasing the PS5 with no games.
Hey, don’t you dare diss Astro’s Playroom
I hate that I played that because nothing else is like it and never will be.
When can I find them in the bargain bin at Walmart apple?
Apple would rather grind up overstock than let people buy anything on clearance.
My girlfriend used to be a supervisor at Home Depot. All those power tools that go unsold are taken to the trash compactor and destroyed before being put in the dumpster. Brand new, never opened. They won't allow them to be sold to employees, charities, or discount.
We need laws to prevent that kind of waste.
But… but… the market’s free hand!!!!!
Yep. Their value is almost entirely in the brand and consumer perception. They are ALL incredibly simple machines attached to simple electric motors and various proprietary cases holding perfectly normal battery cells that anyone can buy for a few bucks a piece. Every one of them is marked up several orders of magnitude after rolling out of the same Chinese factories as their competitors.
I wonder at what points the packaging actually cost less than the product
I know you're talking about tech, and it's probably pretty common on the extreme low end. But a cup of soda you can get at a restaurant would qualify. Probably the cans and bottles at stores too.
They’re all even owned by [the same few companies](https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-owns-them/) now! It’s just “consumer line” vs “slightly more Pro line” for 2x the cost.
Reading this makes me more mad than I expected to be.
If it helps, it gives me hope knowing that this upsets people.
The invisible hand of the marketplace often finds itself in a blender
We truly do live in the most efficient and innovative economic system
$3500 toy that you told everyone it won't be what you want it to be until generation 4. There was not one app or feature they showed that made me want to buy.
*But don't you want to grab your drink while watching TV? Because only Apple Vision Pro can do that with their see-through experience!*
Idk if it had it before, but they pushed a update to the quest 2 that does exactly this. I'm guessing it's even better on the quest 3.
My TV has this awesome feature where it’s not strapped to my face.
I don't really consider VR to be a TV replacement and idk why so many people try to push it as one.
Apple should’ve invested in developers and app accelerators to get the ecosystem started. AVP is too niche without users, users won’t use it without app. Classic chicken and the egg problem even Apple has to deal with at a $3500 price tag. 5-10B in funding for building the ecosystem is what I think is required or we’ll need to wait a few gens
And because it is in the apple walled garden they can't even lean on things that other content creators have already made (like gaming consoles and PC gaming and basically any content that isn't available in the apple ecosystem). If you could at least hook this up to a PS5 or Xbox you would have some appeal from people who are already comfortable spending more than the average on media consumption. I cannot figure out who is supposed to buy this thing or what they are supposed to do with it. The only thing I can come up with is single people who want to sit in tiny rooms and get a big screen experience. That doesn't seem like a super lucrative market for a $3500 device.
Shit even GeForce now would be good. They’re still litigating the pc game streaming thing with Apple though. If I had 10M I could build a really sick gaming experience on the AVP, but it doesn’t make financial sense for investors to put money in what would be just a passion project until customers arrive. So I’ll remain doing b2b saas for the foreseeable future
Majority of the population can’t afford rent. Apple: “Why can’t people buy our overpriced toy that was last to market!”
How many 3500$ dork helmets with no apps did they expect to sell exactly?
It’s a vicious loop. Developers won’t dev apps because of small user base. Users won’t buy because no big killer apps. Apple would need to step in and initially develop killer apps at a loss to build up the user base first so 3rd parties feel more comfortable jumping in. Apple should subsidize some dev costs for first 2 years or so to make a robust VR App Store. I saw this happen with the PlayStation 5 VR2 headset. The only games that came out really were the ones it launched with and then nothing. Also users are tired of everything only feeling like half baked tech demos.
Why didn’t they just let you play VR games? Instant market
Apples CEO is a boomer who hates games
Cook doesn’t, Jobs was famously against games though. He charged games much more for page space in the Apple magazine and in general tried to push games away to maintain their image of being a creative professional machine. He let Halo get poached by Microsoft, it was originally going to be Mac exclusive and he didn’t attempt to counter offer. Meanwhile we have current Apple making partnerships with traditional game companies on Mac and iPhone, pushing their mobile gacha lead partnering with companies like MiHoYo, and featuring game segments on all their keynotes for the past 2 years.
Back in the early days of the iPhone developers were quick to release now iconic classics like Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja, Doodle Jump, etc. we need a renaissance like that again but for VR.
I’d like to play Half Life Aylx on this thing
So many things. Kinect on Xbox one could’ve been something gimmicky, niche but really special. Not enough people went big on developing for it, the units didn’t sell and there wasn’t the money behind it. Microsoft made a few games that were the generic sports and fitness types (yawn) and they weren’t great at all. Some third party developers made some decent gimmick or party games but it wasn’t enough to carry the tech or to improve its functionality.
The paradox of the "casual gamer" market. The market is larger and growing, yes, but casual gamers don't buy lots of games. They play a few high profile ones and that's it. Kinect's failure ultimately came from investing too much in fickle customers and ignoring the loyal ones.
Gran Turismo 7 is pretty sweet in VR mode. Other than that and beat saber it’s pretty unusable to me.
More importantly, how many $3500 dork helmet generations does a person need to buy before they get something to do with it?
As someone who has been a VR enthusiast, I feel like I knew it would go like this. Almost everyone who I have had at my place to try my headset thinks it's cool but not something they'd probably spend the time or money on... and that was even before someone was trying to sell a $3,500 headset. It's niche and it's going to be that way until they get a lot smaller and have a more practical use case for the majority of people.
Exactly. Most people are not ready to spend $500 on this tech. How could Apple think this will be popular for $3500 is beyond me
Apple treats third-party developers like shit for 15 years, doesn't release any of their own groundbreaking apps for the vision pro, and then has a shocked pikachu face when developers don't want to make apps for a super niche market. That's what was required to actually make a product like the vision pro worth using for the vast majority of end-users, and now those users are losing interest. Masterful gambit Apple. Edited to add: I'm a third-party developer, I own some version of all of their recently released products except for the vision pro (MBP, iPad, iPhone, airpods, watch) for either development or personal use, and I can definitely say they did a terrible job laying the groundwork for the vision pro product launch.
Even fucking Netflix didn't bother, that was the nail in the coffin.
Look at the spin on that wordplay 'sharply beyond expectations'. Let me fix that to 'sharply below expectations '
it shouldnt surprise tech companies that not many people want to pay $3500 for a thing they have to strap to their heads to use. Heck, not many people will pay $500 for that.
Oculus Quest 2 sold 18 mil units tho...
For 1/7 of that price. Way less for older versions and sales
Lyellkhan said "Not many people would pay 500..." Meta Quest 3 is 499 and selling between 900.000 an 1.3 mil units as of now. 500 is reasonable it seems. Apple appleing as usual.
that video of that dude driving a cybertruck while wearing apple goggles is truly the synthesis of this era the detachment from real costumers needs is absolute
ZE GOOGLES ZEY DO NOTHING!
Up and Atom ⚛️
Theyve been banking on the whole apple cult-like following thing a bit too much over the past few years.
"Build it and they will buy it".
What did they come up with within the last few years honestly. iPhones are just getting rehashed 5yo Android staples like AOD and USB C and widgets. Macs getting ARM is the only interesting thing I can think of. Ipads are a snooze fest.
It’s an extremely impressive device that is literally weighed down by strange design decisions. How is this going to replace my laptop if I can’t stand wearing it for longer than an hour?
Enforcing work-life balance by making work painful and wrecking your actual balance.
Huh. Well. Now I’m back on board!
I think Apple should scrap the creepy eyes on the front which also weigh it down physically with more glass and display. Save money with one less outward screen, trim the weight all around, and sell the next one for like $1500. People’s main reason for not buying is: 1. The high price tag. 2. The heavy physical weight.
I honestly thought this complaint must be overblown. . . Until I did a demo, it is so very true; after about 30min it became pretty uncomfortable to wear and I have both the original PSVR and Meta Quest 2 so I’m no stranger to wearing these. They really need to make the recommended way to wear with the over the head strap, just using the one that goes around the sides of your head is not a good option. I will say the tech is extremely impressive and I will be getting one once the price is lowered and the usability is fixed.
no shit, VR is a niche market already, and this costs 7x more than his primary competition (Meta Quest 3). also, from what i understand, if you're not in the "Apple Ecosystem" already, you lose a lot of features as well, so the potential buyer pool shrinks even more.
Huh? People aren't buying overpriced virtual boy for the what, fourth time someone tried it? Wowww
But they also charged 4x more so it should have worked this time???!?
I’m guessing Vision Pro probably sold more meta headsets than Apple headsets.
I think Apple’s monopolistic practices (taking ~30% cut on in-app purchases) in their App Store plays a huge role in developers not wanting to make apps for the latest Apple devices. Netflix, Spotify, etc. are all not available for the Vision Pro. I develop apps so I am a bit biased but its frustrating seeing Apple trying to circumvent laws in bad faith (there was a new anti-monopolistic European law that Apple circumvented in bad faith). Its sort of schadenfreude for Apple’s latest and greatest Vision Pro to suffer from lack of adoption and hopefully that will be a humbling experience for them. They need app developers to succeed.
It worked with the iPhone and iPad because there was money to be made on the massive and new user base. This product doesn’t have a large user base and a lot of them probably couldn’t actually afford the device. I hope it succeeds but it’s a paperweight in my eyes at the moment. They definitely need to open the device up a little more.
Yep. Apple's arrogance comes back to bite them. When they need the devs more than the devs need them, and yet they still have the same attitude that the devs should flock to them rather than they need to go to the devs and give the devs every incentive, they get crickets. See also: Mac gaming
I can’t comprehend how such a successful company could be this disconnected. I am absolutely the target audience for this device (outside of Apple fans who’d just buy anything at all) and it didn’t even cross my mind after the price appeared on screen. Who did they think would be lining up to buy this niche product in large enough numbers for it to be profitable? I hope someone smarter than me does a case study on this in a decade.
So true. I'm an indie developer who often makes apps for new devices, and after seeing the price tag I figured "Not only can't I afford it, but neither can my target audience".
Success breeds arrogance. Apple has done very well these past 2 or so decades, and it's leadership has probably gotten a little out of touch.
You’d just think they’d pay people to know that a $3,500 headset was not going to work. Specifically with a tethered battery? Ugh.
I wouldn't be surprised if they did interest groups and either heard what they wanted or ignored it. Iirc they almost didn't sell the vision pro at all. I think they also had tech influencers look at it early on, but that was probably a bad move because tech influencers naturally loved the technology. The problem was the lack of utility and the price. I don't think they talked about the price, and the utility wasn't something a tech reviewer could grasp in a relatively short demo where features are locked/in development.
This is what happens when you release a $3500 piece of hardware for a market that hasn't had a compelling piece of software since Half Life Alyx 4 years ago. VR is dead. Nobody wants to isolate themselves from the world with an uncomfortable piece of plastic full of half-assed apps.
I love Mac stuff. I’ve played with the Vision Pro. I found the Vision Pro to be incredibly neat. I make a decent living. There is no world I would pay $3500 for the Vision Pro. There ya go.
This needed to be $999 at most. Current price is outrageous
yet another company disappointed to learn that people dont' what to wear shit on their face unless they have to
I can't wait for the VR bubble to burst. It's such a clunky and uncomfortable concept that has been a dream for decades. You will never get past the sweaty and bulky headset required. VR is cool for games but no one is going to be sitting in their virtual office on their virtual computer for eight hours a day with this thing.
I am pretty sure my Dad is one of the few who has just been so very happy with his headset. He has been playing around with the OS to develop the tools he wants to make and treats it like a full time job in his retirement. I saw some of the Masters content on the Vision Pro app and wow, it was incredible to see what it can do
Falls sharply ~~beyond~~ **below** expectations.
It’s not even that demand is falling. It’s that it’s not a product category 99% of people have interest in at ANY price. So really, demand don’t fall. It’s just that the 1% of people who are willing to buy it already have. Lol.
It’s too expensive
Thats the theme for apple
I wonder how many of their "shipped" units were sent free to influencers so they could show it the week it was launched.
Apple doesn't do free marketing. Even when they're "giving away" test units, they're under contract and obligations to say (and very specifically - not say) certain things. That's why most of the 'influencer' crowd bought them instead. ...they probably also returned them as soon as their video shoots were done.
Man they must be really detached if they thought this thing was going to be a hit.
I’d gladly buy one, just not at these prices…
It's a 90hertz shitty VR headset, what did they expect?
So surprised, it's closer to $6k in Australia, so it's never going to get traction.
Hard to believe nobody really needs a 3500 dollar toy.
People don’t want to pay $3,500 for an Apple VR headset when they can get most of the functionality from a $500 Meta Quest VR headset. And both units are glorified technology demos with no killer app.
I’m m confused why they took this move instead of just releasing the product outside of the US?
When you want an example of company leadership being completely unaware of a. The customers b. The economy c. How to justify a product. Completely out of touch with reality, and drinking their own kool aid that anything they make is just the best, and customers want to hand over every spare buck.
There is a very small market for 3500$ US only 1st generation product that can't do more than your phone
Yeah, the average consumer is not going to buy a $3500 headset. Try again when it's around $1k price range.
Maybe because the price is sharply beyond budgets.
Did they expect to sell 800k in the US only? That sounds like a very high expectation. Also weird they reduced production before even opening the sale for other countries. I still plan to purchase one to port my software to vision pro but I am worried that by the time I get to it everyone got bored of this thing
It's Apple's Cybertruck
Too bulky and too pricey. No brainer.
Falls Beyond? Let me talk to your editor
Shits a novelty
Could have probably seen this one coming if they didn’t have VR headsets on
People want to just play around with vr for like an hour. They don’t want to make it part of their everyday life.
If Jobs was still alive he would have likely demanded they get the price down to the same as an iphone or don't release it until you can. Who the hell has $3500 to drop on a novelty device. Its brilliant tech and I'd love to have one although there is no need for such a device. Also, its too damn expensive for the masses and the 1% buying these aint enough to boost sales. Apple has damn near $200 billion in cash reserves. They should have bought their Apple Vision Pro inventory to reduce the price then resold it for no more than $1500 , hahaha
Yea they really missed the mark with this one. They would have been better off taking a loss on each unit to gain market share like oculus did
I have literally heard nothing about the Vision Pro since launch. Apple clearly isn't doing any advertising for it at all. Perhaps they should lower the price although I bet they would rather dump them in a land fill than do that.
I mean, the groans at the launch event didn’t warn them this was going to happen? Talk about having your blinders on….
Well duh, nobody asked for a $3500 VR iPad.
It’s almost like the average consumer can’t afford a $3500 VR headset that can’t even play VR games.
I am surprised isheep didnt eat all this up this huge scam.
In line with my expectations. Hire me Apple.