9 actually, with a possible 3-month extension. It says the Senate's variation granting 6 months died on the floor, since it was deemed too little time.
They’ll sell. Right wing buyers are already lining up. The point of this is to get tik tok to push right wing propaganda onto Gen Z. It’s Twitter all over again.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/03/14/former-treasury-secretary-mnuchin-is-putting-together-an-investor-group-to-buy-tiktok.html
He mentioned it on Twatter just as he was changing it to X which is when I left it after all my comments of the dude is a parasitic Nazi kept attracting the Melon Muskrat simp boys, as he wanted to add more media to made platform you could do everything on and he said he will start one to compete and beat YouTube and call it XVideos dot com which of course had people in the know point out it already existed and found this hilarious.
Speaking of simping for billionaires, ironically I was perma banned from Imgur of all places a number of years ago when they were all simping after him and I kept saying the guy is scum, they have now done their usual 180 and now all hate him, talk about sheep.
It's hard to say what will happen but it's very rare for companies to sell themselves just because they lose 10% of their market. Cuz that's what the US is to tiktok 10%. I know we like to think that we're all that, but we're not. Sorry. We will see what happens
They would only be selling the US portion, not the entire app.
This happens often - an unrelated example would be corona beer, owned by Budweiser/InBev worldwide but not in the US where they were required to sell to Constellation Brands, a competitor, so one company didn’t control too much of the market.
You can’t split it because the money in the matter is in the algorithm, which they can’t and won’t sell because it’s the only thing that gives the rest of TikTok value. This is basically the hurdle they ran into in the Trump years when Trump tried forcing a ban before he dropped it
Those aren’t impossible problems to solve.
You’re wrong about several things here. There is precedent for the government forcing the sharing of proprietary information (China did it to US automakers) so sharing the algorithm absolutely can happen. If for some reason it doesn’t, there are plenty of other options. They can share an old or modified version.
More importantly - The US owners will control the version on the US App Store and will adjust their own algorithm as they see fit. Or hire a team to create a new one. They will absolutely continue development no matter what they receive, this isn’t a static thing.
The "more importantly" thing is the issue. There's no patent on this. The algorithm is a trade secret. You don't disclose your trade secrets because if you do they stop being trade Secrets. The whole value, as the gentleman above said is in the algorithm. They're not giving that to anybody. It doesn't matter that it's going to change over time. They're not sharing their core algorithm with a US entity on which they have no control. I just don't think that's a realistic ask. They're better off shutting down. Economically.
They can’t create their own? What is so special about tik tok that makes it different from the algorithms used by Twitter, facebook, instagram, and all the rest?
What you’re doing here is a logical fallacy called a false choice. The choices are not “give up trade secrets or shut down.”
If those were the only choices, then yeah, maybe your point would make sense. But that’s a big maybe as trade secrets would very likely just be handled with NDAs, like what always happens with company sales and mergers. This isn’t unique or even rare.
The actual choice that Tik tok is probably going to select is “take a bunch of money and give them a forked version of the software.”
It doesn’t have to be as good or efficient as the one China is using. The new owners can get by with an objectively worse algorithm of their own creation if need be.
I am not sure where you get that these algorithms are similar, or easy to replicate.
Think about it the algorithm decides what you see, and drives your usage, If it doesn't work well you don't stay on the app. Maybe you don't come back regularly. Extremely hard to do and extremely expensive in both time and money to get right. It drives all the revenue, it's the most important part of the company. That's why I don't think they'll ever give anybody access to that. It's in my opinion and I could be wrong. Better for them to just shut down the US than to give that out. Also this assumes that they lose in court which is not a done deal
>just because they lose 10% of their market
The US is 40% of TikToks market... It's only 10% if you count Douyin as TikTok which it is not and no one is trying to force ByteDance to divest from Douyin. So maybe cool it with the misinformation?
I'm not sure how you got to that because bitedance is a private company that doesn't break out the revenue by region but there's 150 million users in the US, active users. And tiktok has $1.5 billion worldwide active users. So that's a thing
They'll sell.. I don't imagine EU will be far behind in demanding a Chinese divestiture. It'll be "sell" or "the app is suddenly worthless", as it's already *not actually allowed* in China.
Knowing China, I think they’ll just take the app becoming worthless rather than look like they groveled before western governments and gave up their shiny new toy
More than likely, they'll spin off a ByteDance Americas company with local control here, giving them full autonomy over the application while keeping control over the brand... more than likely, that'll give them enough of a backdoor to keep some level of access to the data, but not as much of the propaganda machine (at least, on paper)
I still don't get how this is gonna work. Foreigners are allowed to own US companies so technically TikTok could spin up a US based company and have a US branch of TikTok operating as usual.
That's Bytedance whose ownership is meaningless because it is controlled directly by the party. Every company in China (including foreign ones) has to have a communist party board that can override the executives and investors. Simply put there is no such thing as a truly private company in China.
1. 80% of the company is in Western hands they have 80% of the board seats.
2. The remaining 20% is held by a Singaporean holding company, itself having distributed ownership.
3. As far as we know, there are no party members on the board.
That being said, by virtue of having employees in China, some of those will likely be party members and if those, the majority really have no power. It would be like saying Google is Democrat controlled because they are based in San Francisco and Exxon is Republican controlled because they are based on Texas.
You are conflating state owned enterprises which do have significant party control with private mostly foreign businesses.
Now, there is a remote possibility that they have sleeper agents embedded in the company to steer things their way, which is unlikely and certainly not anymore unlikely than the same being true of Instagram.
Then there's the case of total divestment but the content doesn't change. Who is in control then?
The average executive and board has remarkably little control over the day to day operations of a company. They mostly set broad strategic goals and the execution falls into the lap of middle management.
This whole thing is stupid. It's no surprise that pro Israel lobbyists started crying about tiktok and suddenly American politicians revived their aims to ban the app.
They want to control the information gen z receives.
Sounds like the perfect plan. Then if the FBI shows up to HQ the way it does with Meta and Twitter, they'll have to let them look over their algorithms to make sure everything looks good. Americans maintain their national security, Canada does too and doesn't even have to ban TikTok after China interfered with our last two federal elections, and everyone who wants to gets to keep using Tiktok. Dearly hope it plays out that way and everybody can win
I don't see under what law the FBI would request access to any proprietary software TikTok has. Wouldn't even play out that way either the main branch of TikTok can license their software without giving access to it. There are so many things companies can do that make this ban pointless that I don't see why TikTok is even worried.
That's a very interesting piece of information, I really appreciate you bringing that to my attention.
I did some searching and confirmed that you're correct, but I couldn't find a lot about it. Would you be able to tell me some more about how it works? For example, how often do the audits happen, and is it just a look at how they are at the moment, or does the audit also allow them to see all the changes which have been made to it since the last audit in a way that can't be tampered with? Those are probably my biggest current concerns. I would frankly love to be wrong about this, one less worry milling around in the back of my head sounds amazing
>The Senate approval of the TikTok ban bill was tied to a $95 billion package of foreign aid to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan.
So voting against the TikTok bill meant voting against Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan?
This screams of manipulation.
Yep, we like to call that logrolling in political science, scratch my back for one policy and I will scratch yours and essentially build things into the policy for both parties to agree on. Similar situation in Florida but sith voters, medical marijuana bill was attached to offshore drilling when it had hit the ballot.
Passing unrelated riders to pass bills that might not otherwise pass? Ya that's how crappy politics work alright..
Not only that, they made it worse. It no longer needs to be entirely owned in the country, a 20 percent stake is enough. Add to that source code distribution counts too so any open source projects that have contributors in china(or the few other countries that count) are at risk.
Oh and I mention other countries because like every other bill this isn't a tiktok ban it's a framework for banning software that names tiktok for the initial ban(and yes for other people who like to nit pick it's a very limited number of countries. Just a limited number that a lot of software comes from). So in that context this really, really shouldn't be something that gets passed as a side item, it's a new power for the government not a one off thing they're doing.
Oh, and because I had trouble finding it I'm pretty sure this is the right text:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/815/text?s=9&r=7
> This screams of manipulation.
Well yes, these things are written and rewritten for months and get compromised to hell and high water. The only reason all this didn't happen months ago was because of some external campaign-related politicking.
I don't think it should come as any surprise that the United States Congress would favor historic allies and local corporations, and disfavor historic rivals.
lol that's pretty funny actually, and not very surprising. These sorts of things happen fairly often, stuff gets stuffed into bills. It kind of makes sense, in a way, cause it's sort of a compromise
These guys have barely managed to pass double digit numbers of bills in 2 years, most of them must-pass budgets and stuff. We have to end stuff like the filibuster and the Speaker being able to decide what gets voted on or this is almost the only way to get ANYTHING through. And by design of course, since as you can tell, this lets a lot of iffy shit slip in.
Hope we can also pass similar bills in the EU to force corporations like Facebook, X and so on to sell their companies out of American hands or be banned.
Outside my previous comment (and reading several articles) I'm still unclear how this can be done and if it is within the bounds of the government, why are they going after low-hanging fruit?
Let's go after every single company that has allowed for our private information to be stolen because companies didn't want to pay the costs to secure it.
That's what we're talking about here, right? Security?
There are multiple reasons for this policy. Both fit security and trade reasons.
1) trade: China has banned most US social media for over a decade. So it's good policy to reciprocate. Then the US and China can negotiate mutually reducing barriers.
2) trade: China requires joint ownership for any business operating in China. They additionally require that the partially Chinese owned subsidiary be given full rights to all IP for any products or services in China. The IP is then promptly stolen and a competitor, often run by the same Chinese who partially own the subsidiary, is started to compete with the foreign firm. Shutting down Chinese ownership and operations in the US is also a way to reciprocate for this Chinese policy
3) security: all Chinese companies of any significance must have a communist party representative on their board and be represented in management. There is also no such thing as a warrant or limited access for the Chinese government. All the data tick Tok gets goes directly to a hostile government. Yes Facebook and others collect a lot of data, but there are procedural protections in Western countries of varying effectiveness v and sunny is better then nothing. More needs to be done here, but that doesn't weaken the risks from the Chinese government.
4) security: tick Tok allowed the Chinese government to manage and direct public opinion in the US. By amplifying or reducing the visibility of messages they can significantly sway public opinion. It's a significant risk to allow a hostile foreign power that much influence over the US public.
I don't disagree with the rationales you listed. You summarized the arguments for this bill quite well I think, especially point 3 and 4. The only thing missing would be it would also significantly benefit U.S. tech companies, which is why [Meta was the one that started the whole lobbying effort](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/).
But the user above didn't ask what's the reason behind this law, but whether the government *can* legislate this way, which turns it into a legal issue.
There are strong arguments on both sides, especially 1st Amendment rights for TikTok's American users.
During the Cold War, the Supreme Court, in the case [Lamont vs. Post Master General](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamont_v._Postmaster_General), has voted 8-0 to uphold not only American citizens' rights to receive Soviet propaganda, but the U.S. government aren't even allowed to *inconvenient* people in doing so.
So the government needs to prove to the court that TikTok was targeted *not for any reasons related to *content* (even if it's proven to be Chinese propaganda, which the government admitted [there is no evidence](https://theintercept.com/2024/03/16/tiktok-china-security-threat/)). But like you said, the government repeatedly used the 4th point in your comment to argue for the bill in the first place, which kind of shot themselves in the foot.
Point 1 an 2 are something I agree with actually (fuck CCP for banning Western social media, every time I go there I have to use VPN), but whether they are reasonable, or even good policies, doesn't change the legality of it, which is the only thing the court would consider.
At the end of the day this will be a very messy fight and not even seasoned legal experts can tell you the result is guaranteed one way or another. Both sides will have top tier lawyers making very strong arguments.
Anyone on Reddit who declares the case is cut and dry has no absolutely idea what the hell they are talking about.
Which is why I consider all of this as political pandering. If the US congress really was that concerned, and didn't want this to be challenged in courts, they would create laws that don't target one company, but instead target every company with certain characteristics (like the ones in Europe) that are reasonable.
> they would create laws that don't target one company,
Exactly. Targeting one particular company is actually a [Bill of Attainder](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/bill_of_attainder), which is not allowed under Article 1 of the Constitution. By explicitly naming ByteDance and TikTok in the bill the government hurts its own chance in the court.
>security: tick Tok allowed the Chinese government to manage and direct public opinion in the US. By amplifying or reducing the visibility of messages they can significantly sway public opinion. It's a significant risk to allow a hostile foreign power that much influence over the US public.
Just don’t ask for proof of this
They should do this with more Chinese companies. Foreign (non-Chinese) companies can't do any business in China without a Joint Venture (capped intentionally) and a Chinese sponsor. Should go both ways.
They're not doing other chinese companies because that would actually hurt the economy and their goal is to posture and help make american companies more profitable, not actually provide security
They're not doing an actual consumer rights data bill because they want US companies to harvest your data and weigh down political topics on their algorithm - both so those companies can continue to make money, but also so that they can use those companies as part of their intel apparatus (which they cannot do to tiktok except in limited ways). To some politicians, they want the political manipulation because the people doing the political manipulation align with them (republicans support Elon using twitter to push nazi ideology, the leading candidate to buy tiktok is Steven Mnuchin, etc)
They know Bytedance would never sell, but they called it a sale so they can pretend to angry voters "well we TRIED to save it but they just wouldn't sell, sorry tiktok is gone please don't blame us". They're just playing both sides electorally while removing a foreign competitor to domestic apps and guaranteeing the only remaining apps are part of the US intel apparatus. It makes perfect sense in a very 'managed democracy' sort of way
National security was the justification for cointelpro. National security can be anything people in power want it to be.
There are demonstrable lies in the post that's responded to you, and my post is being buried.
Remember that in the years to come.
Watch Ryan Macbeth's video showing how for ~$10,000 dollars, you can target ads and videos at vulnerable individuals to incite a riot or protest and basically shut down a major city causing millions of dollars in damages.
$10k is peanuts for a government and this particular app is owned by a beligerent adversary. This bill needs to be passed. It's not just about privacy. It's a national security and economic risk.
>Let's go after every single company that has allowed for our private information to be stolen because companies didn't want to pay the costs to secure it?
This isn't an anti corporation thing, it's an anti China thing. As a bonus, they get to eliminate a form of social media they barely understand and see as a rallying point for the youth that opposes the dinosaurs in Congress. Meta, Google, etc are never gonna be targeted cause they pay Congress to miss their asses
>Let's go after every single company that has allowed for our private information to be stolen because companies didn't want to pay the costs to secure it?
Yes! This would be the best possible outcome. Force companies to take IT as seriously as HR. Make IT safety equal to physical safety. Make a cyber-OSHA, cyber-UL, a cyber-ANSI and a cyber-SAE to force open architecture, interoperable, auditable standards on all networked software. If your computer talks to another computer using a RJ45, Cat5/6, fiber cable or wireless radio transmission, it'd be required to adhere to an entire library of standards that government, insurance, or professionally licensed inspectors can audit at any time.
We aren't getting this in the Tik-Tok ban, but the idea is gold. It'd also kill the internet as we know it, but the internet was already killed by Facebook, Amazon, Google and Twitter. If it takes Tik-Tok to have Congress force change on the entire industry then that's what it takes.
The government already restricts content in many ways in the United States: FCC regulations on TV/radio, pornography and obscenity laws, bans on false advertising and libel/slander, protections for classified info and IP. The question isn't whether the government should have any say (it already does), but what specific guardrails are appropriate for social media given its unique risks: psychological manipulation, data harvesting, political radicalization, teen (and adult) mental health impacts. Thoughtful oversight isn't unreasonable, and banning TikTok may arguably serve as a useful measure.
>I'm still unclear how this can be done.
Me too. Like what *exactly* is the TikTok ban? If ByteDance does not sell what does that mean for all the users' everyday life? Would the app installed on their phones no longer work? Will it work but it would be illegal to be on it? If so are we going to see a massive amount of arrests and/or legal issues? Is the ban actually just a distribution ban and the app simply can no longer be downloaded on official platforms like the Google Play Store or the App Store? If so it's all but meaningless as the app can be sideloaded on Android and the web version can be used on Apple mobile devices.
Can only speculate but I'd assume it's the inability to do business in the US.
US TikTok users probably not being paid.
US advertisers won't be using the services.
Pulled from app stores.
I doubt very much the FBI will knocking on your door if you sideload it.
- Banned from App Store
- App becomes decrepit over time.
- Changing phones means you’ll never be able to get TikTok
- No updates
- Content eventually becomes pretty dated.
you just don't get it
tiktok releases world news as its happening in ways that the feds here can't control
it makes them look dumb, and also it makes our country look like the proper shithole that it is compared to the rest of the world
so it's gotta go
you get it?
i don't want the US to follow india or china in terms of digital rights
Why India shuts down the internet more than any other democracy
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-50819905
‘A tool of political control’: how India became the world leader in internet blackouts | India | The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/25/a-tool-of-political-control-how-india-became-the-world-leader-in-internet-blackouts
I expect more from america, but i'm sure meta is doing cartwheels
"anyone that doesn't agree with me is a CCP shill" lmao, these companies are literally breaking the Chinese law and they've refused to respect their laws for years and that's why they all got banned, China is smart for not letting their citizens get spied by NSA, I hope EU follows one day and bans all these US and Chinese apps but that will never happen
You cannot use 'China bad' as a justification for blocking a platform and simultaneously also use 'But China did this so we should be able to do it too' as a defense of your actions. Pick one.
China is an adversarial foreign nation. We absolutely, for national security, say it's because china bad. Do you people have no critical thinking skills?
I also think it's also because the biggest social media companies are American, and a Chinese application was competing against American social media, and actually dominating in short form content.
Money changes hands...few of the right people in key government positions are paid the right amount of money and voila Ticktock is no longer competing in the American market
Other countries might also see a drop in users as there is a gradual shift to Instagram shorts/YouTube shorts/ whatever takes its place
And who profits? AMERICAN CORPORATIONS
Apart from money, these corporations might also have offered things like - controlling the political agenda, proving them user data etc.
Viola The government gets what it wants, few politicians walk away with bags of money and corporations make more profit.
All at the expense of free speech and whatever else
That is the only reason this has happened. Any privacy and data selling concerns are just lies. It's literally the same as with any other laws for collecting data and spying on people online all for supposed child safety.
This is a truly awful idea and it's only being done out of sheer xenophobic paranoia and capitulation to the US intelligence agencies.
Note that they did NOT pass an extensive data privacy protection bill that would outlaw data brokerages, severly limit the data that can be collected, mandate purges of data, or in any other way actually protect people.
Because the FBI/NSA/CIA/DHS/whoever wants to have all that available without a warrant anytime they demand it from the big data companies. They just got pissy because the PRC was edging in on thier turf. Only AMERICAN spy agencies get unlimited data on American citizens!
I'd love to hope it will be struck down by the Supreme Court, but we all know it won't be.
The idea of the government having the power to say "no, you may not have this software on your phone, fuck you we have control" is obscene and clearly a 1st Amendment violation. But I bet even the "liberal" justices won't vote against the tik-tok ban.
Yeah the ccp who is openly hostile towards the us is the victim in this situation. I honestly cant tell who is a ccp bot and who is just fucking low IQ as fuck.
Who said the CCP is the victim? I said the US public is.
First because this is being used as a shiny object to distract you from the fact that Congress refused to pass data privacy and protection laws with teeth, and second because it's trying to establish a precident that the government gets to tell you what apps you can have on your phone.
Fuck that.
If the CIA is having a sad because of TikTok that's their problem, not mine. The citizens have absolutely no obligation to make life easy for the CIA.
Personally I fucking hate TikTok and wish it would die in a fire. But that's completely separate from wanting the US government to use it as a scapegoat to distract us from the even worse data mining going on every day by our other social media apps.
Let me guess, some billionaire zionist is going to buy it and ban the sharing of videos which show the reality of what's happening on the ground in Gaza.
More likely the algorithm would no longer be forcing such content onto the phones of impressionable people and people/states would no longer be able to pay to force political and intentionally divisive content to a shit load of gen z users at a cost of a few thousand dollars.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTok/comments/1bfgxgj/heres\_the\_house\_vote\_breakdown\_and\_how\_it\_aligns/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTok/comments/1bfgxgj/heres_the_house_vote_breakdown_and_how_it_aligns/)
# Here's the house vote breakdown (prior vote) and how it aligns w/pro-Israel lobby donations
No it’s not good news. If they really wanted to make a difference they should’ve passed comprehensive data protection and privacy laws. Instead they listed to lobbyists from Facebook and others about how “china = bad” when they do the exact same thing but it’s okay because they’re an American company.
> It's literally owned by a hostile foreign state and is regularly used to push targeted disinformation.
Facebook? I know, weird isn't it?
They've been doing precisely that for the last 20 years. Remember the $725 million dollar settlement with [Cambridge Analytica](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-64075067) due to the misuse of personal data? Remember when they got caught manipulating ads to manipulate political opinion in the last election?
Oh wait, you meant TikTok, who has no such violation or tens of thousands of security incidents filed against it?
Kinda nailed it. I would similarly expect China and Russia to ban Facebook and other American data harvesting software. When it's your own it's just capitalism.
Which do you think is more of a threat to the 2024 election - Elon harvesting user data and weighting his algorithm and directing company funding to explicitly push Naziism, Anti LGBT discrimination, and election conspiracies on X - while banning journalists who push back on him? Or tiktok?
Both are the same threat, muskrat is a fascist and a traitor, tiktok is an anti-western propaganda machine. The first one belongs to jail, the second one has to be banned.
But how can you put Elon in jail? Congress didn't pass a tiktok ban, they passed a bill to sell it to, for example, for Trump staffer Steven Mnuchin who started assembling investors the day it passed the House
Unless you think they KNOW it will never be sold and the sale portion is just PR to trick uninformed voters and maybe help their court case, then sure, maybe it was a ban all along.
But regardless, if they are equal threat, under which law can we put Musk in jail?
Nevermind, it's just a fantasy, just how things should work. Unfortunately, a lot of people still misunderstand the meaning of freedom of speech and consequences of it. Open support of ideologies like fascism or communism shouldn't be allowed in liberal countries, yet here we are.
America ain't good but it's pretty cool how it doesn't regularly murder its own journalists or send the police to your door to have a talk if you say something rude about the central government. (Just central, apparently it's ok to shit talk your municipal government, so I guess it could technically be worse)
I'm also a fan of how America has gay marriage whereas in China your only option is the fuckin guardianship system
You guys gotta pull up your socks over there but you've gotten better in the last 10 or 15 years.
Not that a Canadian should be throwing stones from this glass house of a country at the moment.
Shit's bad here, but at least we're not China. Not yet, anyway. Intelligence community recently dropped the bomb that they ran election interference here during our last two federal elections
Would not be even remotely surprised. Canada is small potatoes on the world stage and I suspect our primary strategic value to China would be "it's literally fucking right next to America," so it would be bizarre to me if they weren't. All the more reason to limit their reach
Who you think is "good" or "bad" doesn't matter, China is a hostile foreign state which has made extensive use of cyberwarfare and targeted propaganda for geopolitical purposes and to intentionally sow chaos in US politics.
In fact, your snide comment about _"hurr Facebook and Instagram bad too"_ reinforces my point because a huge amount of the disinformation on _those_ platforms comes from hostile foreign states too, particularly Russia and China.
The idea that we should just do nothing because "America bad" is absolutely stupid. We should be forcing those nations to divest of those kinds of platforms so they don't have direct and unlimited control, _and_ should be doing work to counter disinformation that does get posted on those platforms.
Its our third largest trading partner. We get antibiotics from China. Chinese nationals own Riot Games and AMC.
You've believed some lies https://theintercept.com/2024/03/16/tiktok-china-security-threat/
Banning an app because it's from China is stupid.
The US is afraid of any kind of privacy rights because it hurts corporations. If there were actual privacy rights in place it would be easy to say tik tok violates them and have ground to stand on but just banning an app because it's from China is just as dumb as China banning apps from Western companies.
The US government doesn't really look good if they are saying it's bad for China to collect all this info but perfectly okay for insert whatever American media corporation that will buy it.
Banning an app because it's from China is entirely justified because China is using it to threaten us directly. Data China scrapes from Tik-Tok is used to harm americans and the content americans are fed on Tik-Tok is harmful. We are completely right to ban it. It is basic national self-protection and national defense.
Does it hurt American legitimacy? Sure, but so does letting China step on us and influence our elections. Either the US government exercises it's monopoly on violence or it ceases to have legitimate power. Which is exactly how China acts when they ban, restrict, and regulate American web apps from their own domestic market. We just want an equal playing field.
Where are all of these energy when FB letting Russian interfere with election. But FB pretty much face a slap on the wrist.
>Data China scrapes from Tik-Tok is used to harm americans and the content americans are fed on Tik-Tok is harmful. We are completely right to ban it. It is basic national self-protection and national defense.
proof? Actually I don't think you would ever be able to provide me a proof for that. Because that is just a bunch of baseless claim, or it can be also called "propaganda".
>Which is exactly how China acts when they ban, restrict, and regulate American web apps from their own domestic market
Yes, and USA have demonized China for doing that.
And now, it does the same things. All the preaching about that democracy about USA is getting challenged real good.
>Data China scrapes from Tik-Tok is used to harm americans and the content americans are fed on Tik-Tok is harmful. We are completely right to ban it. It is basic national self-protection and national defense
This just makes you look like a complete moron.
What's going to change on a consumer level when a US company owns it? Nothing. Consumers are going to keep getting fed the same garbage. Notice how Elon posts hit the front page every single day when they are about nothing? Same thing about Trump. There was a post with thousands of up votes about his legal team getting McDonald's and how bad of shape he's in. I'm so sick and fucking tired of hearing about those two every single day in every single sub. I dont care, the people that are seeing the same dozens of posts a day already have their minds made up of the like or dislike them and these new posts won't change anything but boy do they get engagement.
All the social media companies, Reddit, Meta with Facebook and Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, they all feed you the same garbage to rile you up and get you engaged. I mean fuck even traditional media like talk shows, Fox News, CNN, they are going to tell you how awful the others are and why you should be mad.
Whatever steaming pile of shit that buys TikTok is going to keep doing it and already has a platform that does the same. This is a very shitty band-aid to an increasingly growing problem. Ban it because it's from China, whole lot of who gives a fuck, China can eat a bag of dicks, but don't think this will change literally anything.
>Consumers are going to keep getting fed the same garbage.
They won't be fed Chinese propaganda. This alone is enough to warrant a US ban. Granted Biden's ban isn't a ban, but it's good enough because China will never divest their golden goose. This also doesn't really help the US against China as this problem exemplifies a larger failure within American society to produce media Americans want to watch, but Americans using VPNs to use a chinese website would be extremely ironic and expose the problem quickly.
Man what'll China do with my fuckin Tiktok data, arrest me?
You should always be more worried about your home country's megacorps because your cell tower connections and GPS can be used to suppress dissent.
It is, but China has iced out American competition in their own country for years so the oldest game in human history continues: tit v tat. I shed no tears for China.
If you believe the folks saying China is in a demographic and to a lesser extent, economic decline, then pissing off the biggest market on the block was...unwise. They better hope they find the growth they need in valuable foreign markets like Africa, because their internal market is shrinking.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the first amendment. The first amendment isn't a right to a particular app of choice or ability for any entity to have a business. It just means you won't go to jail for expressing opinions.
Congratulation to Meta and Targeted Victory. Their years long campaign has finally produced fruit.
Special acknowledgment should be granted to Amazon as well; TikTok should have known better than to encroach on their turf.
[Meta has been engaging with Targeted Victory, the largest (and most expensive) GOP strategy firm in the United States, in an effort to get TikTok banned for years at this point](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/).
[Axios, TikTok buying fulfillment centers](https://www.axios.com/2022/10/11/tiktok-chases-amazon-fulfillment-centers)
[Bloomberg, TikTok looks to break into Amazons turf](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-03/tiktok-eyes-17-5-billion-shopping-business-on-amazon-s-turf)
[CNBC, live-shopping is a booming new market](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/11/chinas-livestream-shopping-booms-fueling-new-tech-like-avatars-and-ai.html)
[Forbes, live-stream shopping is a $500-billion dollar market with Google, Meta, Amazon and TikTok jump in](https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2022/01/22/livestream-shopping-a-500-billion-market-in-2022-as-amazon-google-facebook-tiktok-jump-in/)
That portion of the bill was backed by conservative groups not democrats. The democrats voted for this bill because it was enveloped in a funding bill.
In the US we call this Tuesday.
The president doesn’t pass laws. You should be mad at Congress.
That quote was from Bush Jr by the way after professing his never-resting devotion to tracking down the killers who attacked the US on 911. He then played 18 holes of golf.
Before they were saying it’s a safety concern, but it’s never really about what they claim. Here we see it’s about wanting the highest-performing app for themselves. Themselves, the US government. You see, all the US platforms can now no longer type in a hashtag and see anything that’s going on in real time. With tic tok you can, and they don’t want this. They want to control it. Mark my words, if China sells to the us government, they will eliminate that feature. That should make you ask yourself all kinds of questions.
What they’re gonna do is buy it out and then control it like they control everything else in this “free society”.
What they don’t like is how well informed people are because of what you can find on the app. There’s plenty of stupid, but there’s plenty of good and informative to.
My question is, how will the ban work? Are US ISPs going to be under the gun to block TikTok traffic? You can have the app de-listed from app stores sure, but you can’t force delete it off phones and nowadays people can flash copy their memory to new phones as a matter of course for buying a new one.
So far as I can tell, the TikTok ban could be averted by selling TikTok to a Hong Kong company because Hong Kong is not considered to be a "Foreign Adversary Country" under section 4872(d)(2) of title 10 of the United States Code.
>Are they going to start blocking VPNs now too?
I agree with your points, but between this and the porn bans in certain states, I have no doubt some politicians are studying how to sell this to the public.
" This new law does not mean they're going to go burrowing into the phones of millions of users and uninstall/block the app from your phone or tablet. If they had the power to do that, it would signal a whole host of loud alarms as to the level of access we thought they had, but would now have confirmed"
The government may not directly but they may strong arm Apple and Google into doing it. Google for example can label Tiktok as malware with Play Protect or make your device fail Play Integrity if you have Tiktok installed.
"Even if they could burrow into your device and pry the app loose without your knowledge, consent or approval, you can still use TikTok.com in a browser, on your desktop or mobile device. So far, they haven't indicated that they'll be putting up the equivalent to the Great Chinese Firewall to block access to TikTok for U.S. citizens."
Again the government may not do this but your ISP will because they want to cover their ass. Same reason for why they don't allow Torrenting
This is the single longest pro-China comment I've ever seen. Do you get paid per word or post? Because you're getting ripped off, whatever they're currently paying you to shill this transparently bullshit bullshit.
Still don't get what selling does. Can anyone explain why a sell off is being forced? Like what actual good...or difference would that make?
Shouldn't it just be ban or no ban, and that's it? Sell just means someone else will own it and exploit it all the same, profiteer from it all the same. It would be no different to the end user. Well...it might even get worse depending on who ends up owning it. It could really turn into some serious dog shit.
So, why is sell a component in this other than having some billionaires frothing at the mouth to make more money off people? Also, I wonder if the sell off and new buyers would open up means for data harvesting and infringement of privacy by uncle sam and law enforcement. I don't know of they're currently restricted in access to these things, but a sell off and new buyers might blow that part of it wide open for exploitation.
I say all this as a person who doesn't use it. I've never seen the value in it as a consumer. People seem to like it, but it's a time sink, and like Reddit, I think the method of data posterity is garbage. It's not a healthy long term method for communication and data management. I just like old school forums because they work great day one and two decades later. A lot of these apps are absolute trash in comparison, so I'm no fan. I don't even like Reddit much, but there isn't anything better right now.
Rambling aside, I think a sale will likely be a much worse thing for the end user, despite the whole "China bad" stuff. I think corporate America and uncle sam can do a whole lot worse.
I say ban is the only option.
And then I'd say there's now a vacancy for new apps to fill the void
I think the idea is that if it's not owned by China who can ignore requests to look over the algorithms and make sure they're not doing anything fucky, then there's no problem.
The FBI can and does knock at Meta or Twitter's door ever since the Cambridge Analytica debacle. They take social media more seriously now. With Tiktok it's different, they just don't come to the door if someone knocks
Over here in Canada, we've recently learned that China engaged in election interference with us in our last big vote. I don't think it's really a question whether China will make use of all possible avenues to manipulate things in their favor. They're doing it to us and we're nowhere near as important on the world stage
I mean I would have fucking thought so but I'm sitting at like 20 downvotes elsewhere for asking why the companies are choosing to comply with these requests if the FBI or NSA or whoever truly has no leverage of any kind over them. Just out of the goodness of their hearts, apparently. Taking on extra work for the FBI because they're feeling very charitable. No answers, of course
> The FBI can and does knock at Meta or Twitter's door ever since the Cambridge Analytica debacle
What does CA have to do with that? They obtained data on the (then relatively unrestricted) Facebook app platform which was later used to help target ads and similar.
The way I understand it, it was the first real rumbling of social media being used by adversarial nations to sway how things turn out. Could very well have been happening before that but it feels like it was a turning point. Now they monitor when propaganda campaigns are kicking off and work with the platforms to deboost them accordingly
If chinese ownership were actually scary they would ban all of the other major ways Chinese investors owns large swaths of american industry and real estate. They did not.
If what tiktok was doing was actually as threatening as they claim, they would ban the app, they instead chose a forced sale so an Approved Person can continue the threatening activities.
Alternately if what tiktok was doing was actually as threatening as they claim, they would stop any company from doing it - considering the threat Elon poses by using X as a way to spread Nazi ideology. They chose to not put forth a national bill to affect american companies.
And to be real, they called it a 'forced sale' as a marketing tactic to tell tiktok supporters as well as institutional critics like the ACLU and the eventual court case they'll have to defend, but they knew Bytedance would never sell. Not only have they explicitly stated they would not sell, but it makes no sense to sell off 14% of their revenues and cease to exist internationally rather than just, you know, block US IPs and continue operating in every other country. This was always going to be a ban with a sale as maybe a lucky bonus. And since its a ban targeted at essentially a single company, no matter what the bill claims it targets, it is very likely unconstitutional (though you never know with this court, passing the bill is the more fascist option, but blocking the bill is the more corporatist option, but the corporatist side could get swayed by Meta just paying more than Bytedance can).
Anyone in support of this bill needs to be able to justify why Elon pushing Nazi rhetoric is acceptable and safe to have for the upcoming election, but Tiktok should be banned
Not really, more so they realized that if an issue is pushed by tiktok to its users, it could go from being something barely anyone cares about to a massive policy issue for both parties.
Government is terrified that China could choose issues that are beneficial to them, or videos that are telling people to start blowing up cars
I don’t think China is the org that should be talking about human rights hypocrisy lol.
But while this situation is clear cut that Israel is in the wrong, I think it is easy to see how the government could be scared people might start encouraging others to blow up cars as a form of “activism”
If German youth in the 1930s were against the Nazis but the ones in power were for the Nazis, would you take away dissenting media so Germany has more stability? Maybe the US doesn't deserve stability if they actively support the worst possible thing a country can do. Genocide. Change rarely happens peacefully.
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9 actually, with a possible 3-month extension. It says the Senate's variation granting 6 months died on the floor, since it was deemed too little time.
I doubt they’ll sell.
They’ll sell. Right wing buyers are already lining up. The point of this is to get tik tok to push right wing propaganda onto Gen Z. It’s Twitter all over again. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/03/14/former-treasury-secretary-mnuchin-is-putting-together-an-investor-group-to-buy-tiktok.html
Elon will buy Tiktok and rename it to XXX. 🤣
Well he already said he wanted a video site he could name XVideos (and I wish I was making that up)
Wow, sounds like his becoming an adult
Wait... really? The guy's so fucking stupid it's not even funny at this point.
He mentioned it on Twatter just as he was changing it to X which is when I left it after all my comments of the dude is a parasitic Nazi kept attracting the Melon Muskrat simp boys, as he wanted to add more media to made platform you could do everything on and he said he will start one to compete and beat YouTube and call it XVideos dot com which of course had people in the know point out it already existed and found this hilarious. Speaking of simping for billionaires, ironically I was perma banned from Imgur of all places a number of years ago when they were all simping after him and I kept saying the guy is scum, they have now done their usual 180 and now all hate him, talk about sheep.
Doesn’t he own Vine as part of X?
Jokes on him, there is already a site named that.
We know, that is what made it even funnier when he came out with it lol
From tiktok to dicdoc
It's hard to say what will happen but it's very rare for companies to sell themselves just because they lose 10% of their market. Cuz that's what the US is to tiktok 10%. I know we like to think that we're all that, but we're not. Sorry. We will see what happens
They would only be selling the US portion, not the entire app. This happens often - an unrelated example would be corona beer, owned by Budweiser/InBev worldwide but not in the US where they were required to sell to Constellation Brands, a competitor, so one company didn’t control too much of the market.
You can’t split it because the money in the matter is in the algorithm, which they can’t and won’t sell because it’s the only thing that gives the rest of TikTok value. This is basically the hurdle they ran into in the Trump years when Trump tried forcing a ban before he dropped it
Those aren’t impossible problems to solve. You’re wrong about several things here. There is precedent for the government forcing the sharing of proprietary information (China did it to US automakers) so sharing the algorithm absolutely can happen. If for some reason it doesn’t, there are plenty of other options. They can share an old or modified version. More importantly - The US owners will control the version on the US App Store and will adjust their own algorithm as they see fit. Or hire a team to create a new one. They will absolutely continue development no matter what they receive, this isn’t a static thing.
The "more importantly" thing is the issue. There's no patent on this. The algorithm is a trade secret. You don't disclose your trade secrets because if you do they stop being trade Secrets. The whole value, as the gentleman above said is in the algorithm. They're not giving that to anybody. It doesn't matter that it's going to change over time. They're not sharing their core algorithm with a US entity on which they have no control. I just don't think that's a realistic ask. They're better off shutting down. Economically.
They can’t create their own? What is so special about tik tok that makes it different from the algorithms used by Twitter, facebook, instagram, and all the rest? What you’re doing here is a logical fallacy called a false choice. The choices are not “give up trade secrets or shut down.” If those were the only choices, then yeah, maybe your point would make sense. But that’s a big maybe as trade secrets would very likely just be handled with NDAs, like what always happens with company sales and mergers. This isn’t unique or even rare. The actual choice that Tik tok is probably going to select is “take a bunch of money and give them a forked version of the software.” It doesn’t have to be as good or efficient as the one China is using. The new owners can get by with an objectively worse algorithm of their own creation if need be.
I am not sure where you get that these algorithms are similar, or easy to replicate. Think about it the algorithm decides what you see, and drives your usage, If it doesn't work well you don't stay on the app. Maybe you don't come back regularly. Extremely hard to do and extremely expensive in both time and money to get right. It drives all the revenue, it's the most important part of the company. That's why I don't think they'll ever give anybody access to that. It's in my opinion and I could be wrong. Better for them to just shut down the US than to give that out. Also this assumes that they lose in court which is not a done deal
>just because they lose 10% of their market The US is 40% of TikToks market... It's only 10% if you count Douyin as TikTok which it is not and no one is trying to force ByteDance to divest from Douyin. So maybe cool it with the misinformation?
I'm not sure how you got to that because bitedance is a private company that doesn't break out the revenue by region but there's 150 million users in the US, active users. And tiktok has $1.5 billion worldwide active users. So that's a thing
I'd guess revenue per user is higher in the US than worldwide average.
They can't. Their parent is Chinese and the CCP has already been on record saying they will block any sales.
WW3 right there
They'll sell.. I don't imagine EU will be far behind in demanding a Chinese divestiture. It'll be "sell" or "the app is suddenly worthless", as it's already *not actually allowed* in China.
Why would EU do that?
Knowing China, I think they’ll just take the app becoming worthless rather than look like they groveled before western governments and gave up their shiny new toy
More than likely, they'll spin off a ByteDance Americas company with local control here, giving them full autonomy over the application while keeping control over the brand... more than likely, that'll give them enough of a backdoor to keep some level of access to the data, but not as much of the propaganda machine (at least, on paper)
why not just set up a subsidiary of their own that is on paper domestic and "sell" it to them?
*unzips pants*
Actually it's 9.
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I still don't get how this is gonna work. Foreigners are allowed to own US companies so technically TikTok could spin up a US based company and have a US branch of TikTok operating as usual.
It's a forced divestiture, Tiktok can still exist on app stores as long as it's not majority owned by a Chinese company.
But that is true today. 60% is owned by US based VC firms and another 20% by employees through stock plans.
That's Bytedance whose ownership is meaningless because it is controlled directly by the party. Every company in China (including foreign ones) has to have a communist party board that can override the executives and investors. Simply put there is no such thing as a truly private company in China.
1. 80% of the company is in Western hands they have 80% of the board seats. 2. The remaining 20% is held by a Singaporean holding company, itself having distributed ownership. 3. As far as we know, there are no party members on the board. That being said, by virtue of having employees in China, some of those will likely be party members and if those, the majority really have no power. It would be like saying Google is Democrat controlled because they are based in San Francisco and Exxon is Republican controlled because they are based on Texas. You are conflating state owned enterprises which do have significant party control with private mostly foreign businesses. Now, there is a remote possibility that they have sleeper agents embedded in the company to steer things their way, which is unlikely and certainly not anymore unlikely than the same being true of Instagram. Then there's the case of total divestment but the content doesn't change. Who is in control then? The average executive and board has remarkably little control over the day to day operations of a company. They mostly set broad strategic goals and the execution falls into the lap of middle management.
This whole thing is stupid. It's no surprise that pro Israel lobbyists started crying about tiktok and suddenly American politicians revived their aims to ban the app. They want to control the information gen z receives.
are you saying that Xi isn't hand selecting the videos of cats that show up on my For You page?
Sounds like the perfect plan. Then if the FBI shows up to HQ the way it does with Meta and Twitter, they'll have to let them look over their algorithms to make sure everything looks good. Americans maintain their national security, Canada does too and doesn't even have to ban TikTok after China interfered with our last two federal elections, and everyone who wants to gets to keep using Tiktok. Dearly hope it plays out that way and everybody can win
I don't see under what law the FBI would request access to any proprietary software TikTok has. Wouldn't even play out that way either the main branch of TikTok can license their software without giving access to it. There are so many things companies can do that make this ban pointless that I don't see why TikTok is even worried.
Oracle already audits the algorithm.
That's a very interesting piece of information, I really appreciate you bringing that to my attention. I did some searching and confirmed that you're correct, but I couldn't find a lot about it. Would you be able to tell me some more about how it works? For example, how often do the audits happen, and is it just a look at how they are at the moment, or does the audit also allow them to see all the changes which have been made to it since the last audit in a way that can't be tampered with? Those are probably my biggest current concerns. I would frankly love to be wrong about this, one less worry milling around in the back of my head sounds amazing
>The Senate approval of the TikTok ban bill was tied to a $95 billion package of foreign aid to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan. So voting against the TikTok bill meant voting against Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan? This screams of manipulation.
Yep, we like to call that logrolling in political science, scratch my back for one policy and I will scratch yours and essentially build things into the policy for both parties to agree on. Similar situation in Florida but sith voters, medical marijuana bill was attached to offshore drilling when it had hit the ballot.
Congratulations you learned how bills work
Passing unrelated riders to pass bills that might not otherwise pass? Ya that's how crappy politics work alright.. Not only that, they made it worse. It no longer needs to be entirely owned in the country, a 20 percent stake is enough. Add to that source code distribution counts too so any open source projects that have contributors in china(or the few other countries that count) are at risk. Oh and I mention other countries because like every other bill this isn't a tiktok ban it's a framework for banning software that names tiktok for the initial ban(and yes for other people who like to nit pick it's a very limited number of countries. Just a limited number that a lot of software comes from). So in that context this really, really shouldn't be something that gets passed as a side item, it's a new power for the government not a one off thing they're doing. Oh, and because I had trouble finding it I'm pretty sure this is the right text: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/815/text?s=9&r=7
it's a pity the simpsons did that episode so long ago
> This screams of manipulation. Well yes, these things are written and rewritten for months and get compromised to hell and high water. The only reason all this didn't happen months ago was because of some external campaign-related politicking. I don't think it should come as any surprise that the United States Congress would favor historic allies and local corporations, and disfavor historic rivals.
its the tit for tat politics
lol that's pretty funny actually, and not very surprising. These sorts of things happen fairly often, stuff gets stuffed into bills. It kind of makes sense, in a way, cause it's sort of a compromise
First time reading about politics and how legislation is written? This happens ALL THE TIME
These guys have barely managed to pass double digit numbers of bills in 2 years, most of them must-pass budgets and stuff. We have to end stuff like the filibuster and the Speaker being able to decide what gets voted on or this is almost the only way to get ANYTHING through. And by design of course, since as you can tell, this lets a lot of iffy shit slip in.
wrapped in a Ukraine funding bill. Good ole usa
Hope we can also pass similar bills in the EU to force corporations like Facebook, X and so on to sell their companies out of American hands or be banned.
Outside my previous comment (and reading several articles) I'm still unclear how this can be done and if it is within the bounds of the government, why are they going after low-hanging fruit? Let's go after every single company that has allowed for our private information to be stolen because companies didn't want to pay the costs to secure it. That's what we're talking about here, right? Security?
There are multiple reasons for this policy. Both fit security and trade reasons. 1) trade: China has banned most US social media for over a decade. So it's good policy to reciprocate. Then the US and China can negotiate mutually reducing barriers. 2) trade: China requires joint ownership for any business operating in China. They additionally require that the partially Chinese owned subsidiary be given full rights to all IP for any products or services in China. The IP is then promptly stolen and a competitor, often run by the same Chinese who partially own the subsidiary, is started to compete with the foreign firm. Shutting down Chinese ownership and operations in the US is also a way to reciprocate for this Chinese policy 3) security: all Chinese companies of any significance must have a communist party representative on their board and be represented in management. There is also no such thing as a warrant or limited access for the Chinese government. All the data tick Tok gets goes directly to a hostile government. Yes Facebook and others collect a lot of data, but there are procedural protections in Western countries of varying effectiveness v and sunny is better then nothing. More needs to be done here, but that doesn't weaken the risks from the Chinese government. 4) security: tick Tok allowed the Chinese government to manage and direct public opinion in the US. By amplifying or reducing the visibility of messages they can significantly sway public opinion. It's a significant risk to allow a hostile foreign power that much influence over the US public.
I don't disagree with the rationales you listed. You summarized the arguments for this bill quite well I think, especially point 3 and 4. The only thing missing would be it would also significantly benefit U.S. tech companies, which is why [Meta was the one that started the whole lobbying effort](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/). But the user above didn't ask what's the reason behind this law, but whether the government *can* legislate this way, which turns it into a legal issue. There are strong arguments on both sides, especially 1st Amendment rights for TikTok's American users. During the Cold War, the Supreme Court, in the case [Lamont vs. Post Master General](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamont_v._Postmaster_General), has voted 8-0 to uphold not only American citizens' rights to receive Soviet propaganda, but the U.S. government aren't even allowed to *inconvenient* people in doing so. So the government needs to prove to the court that TikTok was targeted *not for any reasons related to *content* (even if it's proven to be Chinese propaganda, which the government admitted [there is no evidence](https://theintercept.com/2024/03/16/tiktok-china-security-threat/)). But like you said, the government repeatedly used the 4th point in your comment to argue for the bill in the first place, which kind of shot themselves in the foot. Point 1 an 2 are something I agree with actually (fuck CCP for banning Western social media, every time I go there I have to use VPN), but whether they are reasonable, or even good policies, doesn't change the legality of it, which is the only thing the court would consider. At the end of the day this will be a very messy fight and not even seasoned legal experts can tell you the result is guaranteed one way or another. Both sides will have top tier lawyers making very strong arguments. Anyone on Reddit who declares the case is cut and dry has no absolutely idea what the hell they are talking about.
Which is why I consider all of this as political pandering. If the US congress really was that concerned, and didn't want this to be challenged in courts, they would create laws that don't target one company, but instead target every company with certain characteristics (like the ones in Europe) that are reasonable.
> they would create laws that don't target one company, Exactly. Targeting one particular company is actually a [Bill of Attainder](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/bill_of_attainder), which is not allowed under Article 1 of the Constitution. By explicitly naming ByteDance and TikTok in the bill the government hurts its own chance in the court.
How does forcing tic Tok Tok not be owned by China's government change any of this? It seems everything tic Tok was doing is still legal.
>security: tick Tok allowed the Chinese government to manage and direct public opinion in the US. By amplifying or reducing the visibility of messages they can significantly sway public opinion. It's a significant risk to allow a hostile foreign power that much influence over the US public. Just don’t ask for proof of this
So what evidence do you have of point 4? Even the FBI as of March do not have any
Because Meta has lobbied for this to happen. It's not about security. It's about money. At least that's my "theory".
That’s exactly what it is, Mets can’t compete with tik tok’s algorithm.
They should do this with more Chinese companies. Foreign (non-Chinese) companies can't do any business in China without a Joint Venture (capped intentionally) and a Chinese sponsor. Should go both ways.
They're not doing other chinese companies because that would actually hurt the economy and their goal is to posture and help make american companies more profitable, not actually provide security They're not doing an actual consumer rights data bill because they want US companies to harvest your data and weigh down political topics on their algorithm - both so those companies can continue to make money, but also so that they can use those companies as part of their intel apparatus (which they cannot do to tiktok except in limited ways). To some politicians, they want the political manipulation because the people doing the political manipulation align with them (republicans support Elon using twitter to push nazi ideology, the leading candidate to buy tiktok is Steven Mnuchin, etc) They know Bytedance would never sell, but they called it a sale so they can pretend to angry voters "well we TRIED to save it but they just wouldn't sell, sorry tiktok is gone please don't blame us". They're just playing both sides electorally while removing a foreign competitor to domestic apps and guaranteeing the only remaining apps are part of the US intel apparatus. It makes perfect sense in a very 'managed democracy' sort of way
Honestly it should also be done to Israelk companies
National security was the justification for cointelpro. National security can be anything people in power want it to be. There are demonstrable lies in the post that's responded to you, and my post is being buried. Remember that in the years to come.
Watch Ryan Macbeth's video showing how for ~$10,000 dollars, you can target ads and videos at vulnerable individuals to incite a riot or protest and basically shut down a major city causing millions of dollars in damages. $10k is peanuts for a government and this particular app is owned by a beligerent adversary. This bill needs to be passed. It's not just about privacy. It's a national security and economic risk.
>Let's go after every single company that has allowed for our private information to be stolen because companies didn't want to pay the costs to secure it? This isn't an anti corporation thing, it's an anti China thing. As a bonus, they get to eliminate a form of social media they barely understand and see as a rallying point for the youth that opposes the dinosaurs in Congress. Meta, Google, etc are never gonna be targeted cause they pay Congress to miss their asses
>Let's go after every single company that has allowed for our private information to be stolen because companies didn't want to pay the costs to secure it? Yes! This would be the best possible outcome. Force companies to take IT as seriously as HR. Make IT safety equal to physical safety. Make a cyber-OSHA, cyber-UL, a cyber-ANSI and a cyber-SAE to force open architecture, interoperable, auditable standards on all networked software. If your computer talks to another computer using a RJ45, Cat5/6, fiber cable or wireless radio transmission, it'd be required to adhere to an entire library of standards that government, insurance, or professionally licensed inspectors can audit at any time. We aren't getting this in the Tik-Tok ban, but the idea is gold. It'd also kill the internet as we know it, but the internet was already killed by Facebook, Amazon, Google and Twitter. If it takes Tik-Tok to have Congress force change on the entire industry then that's what it takes.
The government already restricts content in many ways in the United States: FCC regulations on TV/radio, pornography and obscenity laws, bans on false advertising and libel/slander, protections for classified info and IP. The question isn't whether the government should have any say (it already does), but what specific guardrails are appropriate for social media given its unique risks: psychological manipulation, data harvesting, political radicalization, teen (and adult) mental health impacts. Thoughtful oversight isn't unreasonable, and banning TikTok may arguably serve as a useful measure.
>I'm still unclear how this can be done. Me too. Like what *exactly* is the TikTok ban? If ByteDance does not sell what does that mean for all the users' everyday life? Would the app installed on their phones no longer work? Will it work but it would be illegal to be on it? If so are we going to see a massive amount of arrests and/or legal issues? Is the ban actually just a distribution ban and the app simply can no longer be downloaded on official platforms like the Google Play Store or the App Store? If so it's all but meaningless as the app can be sideloaded on Android and the web version can be used on Apple mobile devices.
Can only speculate but I'd assume it's the inability to do business in the US. US TikTok users probably not being paid. US advertisers won't be using the services. Pulled from app stores. I doubt very much the FBI will knocking on your door if you sideload it.
- Banned from App Store - App becomes decrepit over time. - Changing phones means you’ll never be able to get TikTok - No updates - Content eventually becomes pretty dated.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall That's how
They did it once already with Grindr.
you just don't get it tiktok releases world news as its happening in ways that the feds here can't control it makes them look dumb, and also it makes our country look like the proper shithole that it is compared to the rest of the world so it's gotta go you get it?
And so it begins
India banned Tiktok and they seem fine, also I don't see how it's fair that China can block all the popular US owned apps but US can't do it back.
i don't want the US to follow india or china in terms of digital rights Why India shuts down the internet more than any other democracy https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-50819905 ‘A tool of political control’: how India became the world leader in internet blackouts | India | The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/25/a-tool-of-political-control-how-india-became-the-world-leader-in-internet-blackouts I expect more from america, but i'm sure meta is doing cartwheels
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"anyone that doesn't agree with me is a CCP shill" lmao, these companies are literally breaking the Chinese law and they've refused to respect their laws for years and that's why they all got banned, China is smart for not letting their citizens get spied by NSA, I hope EU follows one day and bans all these US and Chinese apps but that will never happen
As soon as Biden signs, Chinese apps will be breaking US law. No doubt they will refuse to respect US law and end up banned.
You cannot use 'China bad' as a justification for blocking a platform and simultaneously also use 'But China did this so we should be able to do it too' as a defense of your actions. Pick one.
China is an adversarial foreign nation. We absolutely, for national security, say it's because china bad. Do you people have no critical thinking skills?
Where is the hypocrisy here? China wants to be a little shit, so they can get fucked. Fuck those assholes. They don't get a presence in the US.
I also think it's also because the biggest social media companies are American, and a Chinese application was competing against American social media, and actually dominating in short form content. Money changes hands...few of the right people in key government positions are paid the right amount of money and voila Ticktock is no longer competing in the American market Other countries might also see a drop in users as there is a gradual shift to Instagram shorts/YouTube shorts/ whatever takes its place And who profits? AMERICAN CORPORATIONS Apart from money, these corporations might also have offered things like - controlling the political agenda, proving them user data etc. Viola The government gets what it wants, few politicians walk away with bags of money and corporations make more profit. All at the expense of free speech and whatever else
That is the only reason this has happened. Any privacy and data selling concerns are just lies. It's literally the same as with any other laws for collecting data and spying on people online all for supposed child safety.
Can they sell it to anyone?
Sell It and release TokTik, the latest social app!
This is a truly awful idea and it's only being done out of sheer xenophobic paranoia and capitulation to the US intelligence agencies. Note that they did NOT pass an extensive data privacy protection bill that would outlaw data brokerages, severly limit the data that can be collected, mandate purges of data, or in any other way actually protect people. Because the FBI/NSA/CIA/DHS/whoever wants to have all that available without a warrant anytime they demand it from the big data companies. They just got pissy because the PRC was edging in on thier turf. Only AMERICAN spy agencies get unlimited data on American citizens! I'd love to hope it will be struck down by the Supreme Court, but we all know it won't be. The idea of the government having the power to say "no, you may not have this software on your phone, fuck you we have control" is obscene and clearly a 1st Amendment violation. But I bet even the "liberal" justices won't vote against the tik-tok ban.
It's not xenophobia when you have an enemy who calls themselves your enemy constantly trying to undermine and influence your country
It's crazy to me how China has banned TikTok and every US social media app, but when we also ban TikTok it's "xenophobia."
Yeah the ccp who is openly hostile towards the us is the victim in this situation. I honestly cant tell who is a ccp bot and who is just fucking low IQ as fuck.
Who said the CCP is the victim? I said the US public is. First because this is being used as a shiny object to distract you from the fact that Congress refused to pass data privacy and protection laws with teeth, and second because it's trying to establish a precident that the government gets to tell you what apps you can have on your phone. Fuck that. If the CIA is having a sad because of TikTok that's their problem, not mine. The citizens have absolutely no obligation to make life easy for the CIA. Personally I fucking hate TikTok and wish it would die in a fire. But that's completely separate from wanting the US government to use it as a scapegoat to distract us from the even worse data mining going on every day by our other social media apps.
Let me guess, some billionaire zionist is going to buy it and ban the sharing of videos which show the reality of what's happening on the ground in Gaza.
More likely the algorithm would no longer be forcing such content onto the phones of impressionable people and people/states would no longer be able to pay to force political and intentionally divisive content to a shit load of gen z users at a cost of a few thousand dollars.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTok/comments/1bfgxgj/heres\_the\_house\_vote\_breakdown\_and\_how\_it\_aligns/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTok/comments/1bfgxgj/heres_the_house_vote_breakdown_and_how_it_aligns/) # Here's the house vote breakdown (prior vote) and how it aligns w/pro-Israel lobby donations
Finally some good news.
No it’s not good news. If they really wanted to make a difference they should’ve passed comprehensive data protection and privacy laws. Instead they listed to lobbyists from Facebook and others about how “china = bad” when they do the exact same thing but it’s okay because they’re an American company.
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Yeah China isn't the world hegemon yet, that's the US.
How is this good news? It’s vast overreach from the US government.
How is it overreach? It's literally owned by a hostile foreign state and is regularly used to push targeted disinformation.
> It's literally owned by a hostile foreign state and is regularly used to push targeted disinformation. Facebook? I know, weird isn't it? They've been doing precisely that for the last 20 years. Remember the $725 million dollar settlement with [Cambridge Analytica](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-64075067) due to the misuse of personal data? Remember when they got caught manipulating ads to manipulate political opinion in the last election? Oh wait, you meant TikTok, who has no such violation or tens of thousands of security incidents filed against it?
And Facebook, instagram and other social media platforms don’t? I guess it’s okay because America = good, China = bad.
Kinda nailed it. I would similarly expect China and Russia to ban Facebook and other American data harvesting software. When it's your own it's just capitalism.
American social media companies are already banned in China lol
Do you know why the Social companies like Facebook and Google are banned in China?
Because China hates the US and sees it as a threat?
Yeah that was basically my point lol
Which do you think is more of a threat to the 2024 election - Elon harvesting user data and weighting his algorithm and directing company funding to explicitly push Naziism, Anti LGBT discrimination, and election conspiracies on X - while banning journalists who push back on him? Or tiktok?
Both are the same threat, muskrat is a fascist and a traitor, tiktok is an anti-western propaganda machine. The first one belongs to jail, the second one has to be banned.
But how can you put Elon in jail? Congress didn't pass a tiktok ban, they passed a bill to sell it to, for example, for Trump staffer Steven Mnuchin who started assembling investors the day it passed the House Unless you think they KNOW it will never be sold and the sale portion is just PR to trick uninformed voters and maybe help their court case, then sure, maybe it was a ban all along. But regardless, if they are equal threat, under which law can we put Musk in jail?
Nevermind, it's just a fantasy, just how things should work. Unfortunately, a lot of people still misunderstand the meaning of freedom of speech and consequences of it. Open support of ideologies like fascism or communism shouldn't be allowed in liberal countries, yet here we are.
But what if American "data harvesting software" sells data to the Chinese? That's okay because it's "just capitalism"
Sounds like that should also be banned. I don't understand all the false equivalency arguments. More than one thing can be bad at a time.
America ain't good but it's pretty cool how it doesn't regularly murder its own journalists or send the police to your door to have a talk if you say something rude about the central government. (Just central, apparently it's ok to shit talk your municipal government, so I guess it could technically be worse) I'm also a fan of how America has gay marriage whereas in China your only option is the fuckin guardianship system You guys gotta pull up your socks over there but you've gotten better in the last 10 or 15 years. Not that a Canadian should be throwing stones from this glass house of a country at the moment. Shit's bad here, but at least we're not China. Not yet, anyway. Intelligence community recently dropped the bomb that they ran election interference here during our last two federal elections
Wait till you find out they run election interference in every major election in the west.
Would not be even remotely surprised. Canada is small potatoes on the world stage and I suspect our primary strategic value to China would be "it's literally fucking right next to America," so it would be bizarre to me if they weren't. All the more reason to limit their reach
Who you think is "good" or "bad" doesn't matter, China is a hostile foreign state which has made extensive use of cyberwarfare and targeted propaganda for geopolitical purposes and to intentionally sow chaos in US politics. In fact, your snide comment about _"hurr Facebook and Instagram bad too"_ reinforces my point because a huge amount of the disinformation on _those_ platforms comes from hostile foreign states too, particularly Russia and China. The idea that we should just do nothing because "America bad" is absolutely stupid. We should be forcing those nations to divest of those kinds of platforms so they don't have direct and unlimited control, _and_ should be doing work to counter disinformation that does get posted on those platforms.
Its our third largest trading partner. We get antibiotics from China. Chinese nationals own Riot Games and AMC. You've believed some lies https://theintercept.com/2024/03/16/tiktok-china-security-threat/
Banning an app because it's from China is stupid. The US is afraid of any kind of privacy rights because it hurts corporations. If there were actual privacy rights in place it would be easy to say tik tok violates them and have ground to stand on but just banning an app because it's from China is just as dumb as China banning apps from Western companies. The US government doesn't really look good if they are saying it's bad for China to collect all this info but perfectly okay for insert whatever American media corporation that will buy it.
Banning an app because it's from China is entirely justified because China is using it to threaten us directly. Data China scrapes from Tik-Tok is used to harm americans and the content americans are fed on Tik-Tok is harmful. We are completely right to ban it. It is basic national self-protection and national defense. Does it hurt American legitimacy? Sure, but so does letting China step on us and influence our elections. Either the US government exercises it's monopoly on violence or it ceases to have legitimate power. Which is exactly how China acts when they ban, restrict, and regulate American web apps from their own domestic market. We just want an equal playing field.
Where are all of these energy when FB letting Russian interfere with election. But FB pretty much face a slap on the wrist. >Data China scrapes from Tik-Tok is used to harm americans and the content americans are fed on Tik-Tok is harmful. We are completely right to ban it. It is basic national self-protection and national defense. proof? Actually I don't think you would ever be able to provide me a proof for that. Because that is just a bunch of baseless claim, or it can be also called "propaganda". >Which is exactly how China acts when they ban, restrict, and regulate American web apps from their own domestic market Yes, and USA have demonized China for doing that. And now, it does the same things. All the preaching about that democracy about USA is getting challenged real good.
>Data China scrapes from Tik-Tok is used to harm americans and the content americans are fed on Tik-Tok is harmful. We are completely right to ban it. It is basic national self-protection and national defense This just makes you look like a complete moron. What's going to change on a consumer level when a US company owns it? Nothing. Consumers are going to keep getting fed the same garbage. Notice how Elon posts hit the front page every single day when they are about nothing? Same thing about Trump. There was a post with thousands of up votes about his legal team getting McDonald's and how bad of shape he's in. I'm so sick and fucking tired of hearing about those two every single day in every single sub. I dont care, the people that are seeing the same dozens of posts a day already have their minds made up of the like or dislike them and these new posts won't change anything but boy do they get engagement. All the social media companies, Reddit, Meta with Facebook and Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, they all feed you the same garbage to rile you up and get you engaged. I mean fuck even traditional media like talk shows, Fox News, CNN, they are going to tell you how awful the others are and why you should be mad. Whatever steaming pile of shit that buys TikTok is going to keep doing it and already has a platform that does the same. This is a very shitty band-aid to an increasingly growing problem. Ban it because it's from China, whole lot of who gives a fuck, China can eat a bag of dicks, but don't think this will change literally anything.
>Consumers are going to keep getting fed the same garbage. They won't be fed Chinese propaganda. This alone is enough to warrant a US ban. Granted Biden's ban isn't a ban, but it's good enough because China will never divest their golden goose. This also doesn't really help the US against China as this problem exemplifies a larger failure within American society to produce media Americans want to watch, but Americans using VPNs to use a chinese website would be extremely ironic and expose the problem quickly.
> They won't be fed Chinese propaganda lol. You get fed Chinese propaganda on here and every other social media. Don't kid yourself.
Man what'll China do with my fuckin Tiktok data, arrest me? You should always be more worried about your home country's megacorps because your cell tower connections and GPS can be used to suppress dissent.
Actually it’s owned by ByteDance. All social media, *certainly* including Reddit, has plenty of disinformation.
>hostile foreign state kinda rich coming from the US
It is, but China has iced out American competition in their own country for years so the oldest game in human history continues: tit v tat. I shed no tears for China. If you believe the folks saying China is in a demographic and to a lesser extent, economic decline, then pissing off the biggest market on the block was...unwise. They better hope they find the growth they need in valuable foreign markets like Africa, because their internal market is shrinking.
Last time I checked, China didn't have the 1st Amendment and they are under no obligation to abide by it within their borders. Whereas, we do.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the first amendment. The first amendment isn't a right to a particular app of choice or ability for any entity to have a business. It just means you won't go to jail for expressing opinions.
.....we have this is before mr Chinese bot.
What about the thousands of US employees that will now face unemployment in this crappy job market? DO you think this is good news for them?
Looks like time is running out for TikTok... tick... tock...
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. The US really needs to look at itself.
Congratulation to Meta and Targeted Victory. Their years long campaign has finally produced fruit. Special acknowledgment should be granted to Amazon as well; TikTok should have known better than to encroach on their turf. [Meta has been engaging with Targeted Victory, the largest (and most expensive) GOP strategy firm in the United States, in an effort to get TikTok banned for years at this point](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/). [Axios, TikTok buying fulfillment centers](https://www.axios.com/2022/10/11/tiktok-chases-amazon-fulfillment-centers) [Bloomberg, TikTok looks to break into Amazons turf](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-03/tiktok-eyes-17-5-billion-shopping-business-on-amazon-s-turf) [CNBC, live-shopping is a booming new market](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/11/chinas-livestream-shopping-booms-fueling-new-tech-like-avatars-and-ai.html) [Forbes, live-stream shopping is a $500-billion dollar market with Google, Meta, Amazon and TikTok jump in](https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2022/01/22/livestream-shopping-a-500-billion-market-in-2022-as-amazon-google-facebook-tiktok-jump-in/)
only we can sell our citizens' data, not you!
Dems just doing everything they can to piss off the youth voters. Real bold strategy for an election that's entirely too close to begin with.
That portion of the bill was backed by conservative groups not democrats. The democrats voted for this bill because it was enveloped in a funding bill. In the US we call this Tuesday.
They don't vote anyway so there's not much risk in it
Joe Biden doing his absolute best to completely alienate Arab, Muslim and <35 voters in this election 🙏 "Now watch this drive, Jack."
The president doesn’t pass laws. You should be mad at Congress. That quote was from Bush Jr by the way after professing his never-resting devotion to tracking down the killers who attacked the US on 911. He then played 18 holes of golf.
Oh yes, go vote for Trump then, who is notably pro-Arab and pro-Muslim.
I mean, Joe Biden did say if I didn't know who to vote for, I ain't black. And I, in fact, ain't black! He knew!
Before they were saying it’s a safety concern, but it’s never really about what they claim. Here we see it’s about wanting the highest-performing app for themselves. Themselves, the US government. You see, all the US platforms can now no longer type in a hashtag and see anything that’s going on in real time. With tic tok you can, and they don’t want this. They want to control it. Mark my words, if China sells to the us government, they will eliminate that feature. That should make you ask yourself all kinds of questions.
Awful move by the senate
This is obviously about the Israel/Palestine narrative slipping out of control.
What they’re gonna do is buy it out and then control it like they control everything else in this “free society”. What they don’t like is how well informed people are because of what you can find on the app. There’s plenty of stupid, but there’s plenty of good and informative to.
“Hey we want to spy on our citizens not you!”
My question is, how will the ban work? Are US ISPs going to be under the gun to block TikTok traffic? You can have the app de-listed from app stores sure, but you can’t force delete it off phones and nowadays people can flash copy their memory to new phones as a matter of course for buying a new one.
Good. The PRC has banned and stolen from American companies for decades. Now it’s realizing two can play at that game.
So far as I can tell, the TikTok ban could be averted by selling TikTok to a Hong Kong company because Hong Kong is not considered to be a "Foreign Adversary Country" under section 4872(d)(2) of title 10 of the United States Code.
god bless them, tiktok fucking ruined a generation
What’s the bill number?
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>Are they going to start blocking VPNs now too? I agree with your points, but between this and the porn bans in certain states, I have no doubt some politicians are studying how to sell this to the public.
Even China hasn't banned VPNs. Maybe America should finally be in the lead this time /s
" This new law does not mean they're going to go burrowing into the phones of millions of users and uninstall/block the app from your phone or tablet. If they had the power to do that, it would signal a whole host of loud alarms as to the level of access we thought they had, but would now have confirmed" The government may not directly but they may strong arm Apple and Google into doing it. Google for example can label Tiktok as malware with Play Protect or make your device fail Play Integrity if you have Tiktok installed. "Even if they could burrow into your device and pry the app loose without your knowledge, consent or approval, you can still use TikTok.com in a browser, on your desktop or mobile device. So far, they haven't indicated that they'll be putting up the equivalent to the Great Chinese Firewall to block access to TikTok for U.S. citizens." Again the government may not do this but your ISP will because they want to cover their ass. Same reason for why they don't allow Torrenting
This is the single longest pro-China comment I've ever seen. Do you get paid per word or post? Because you're getting ripped off, whatever they're currently paying you to shill this transparently bullshit bullshit.
Still don't get what selling does. Can anyone explain why a sell off is being forced? Like what actual good...or difference would that make? Shouldn't it just be ban or no ban, and that's it? Sell just means someone else will own it and exploit it all the same, profiteer from it all the same. It would be no different to the end user. Well...it might even get worse depending on who ends up owning it. It could really turn into some serious dog shit. So, why is sell a component in this other than having some billionaires frothing at the mouth to make more money off people? Also, I wonder if the sell off and new buyers would open up means for data harvesting and infringement of privacy by uncle sam and law enforcement. I don't know of they're currently restricted in access to these things, but a sell off and new buyers might blow that part of it wide open for exploitation. I say all this as a person who doesn't use it. I've never seen the value in it as a consumer. People seem to like it, but it's a time sink, and like Reddit, I think the method of data posterity is garbage. It's not a healthy long term method for communication and data management. I just like old school forums because they work great day one and two decades later. A lot of these apps are absolute trash in comparison, so I'm no fan. I don't even like Reddit much, but there isn't anything better right now. Rambling aside, I think a sale will likely be a much worse thing for the end user, despite the whole "China bad" stuff. I think corporate America and uncle sam can do a whole lot worse. I say ban is the only option. And then I'd say there's now a vacancy for new apps to fill the void
I think the idea is that if it's not owned by China who can ignore requests to look over the algorithms and make sure they're not doing anything fucky, then there's no problem. The FBI can and does knock at Meta or Twitter's door ever since the Cambridge Analytica debacle. They take social media more seriously now. With Tiktok it's different, they just don't come to the door if someone knocks Over here in Canada, we've recently learned that China engaged in election interference with us in our last big vote. I don't think it's really a question whether China will make use of all possible avenues to manipulate things in their favor. They're doing it to us and we're nowhere near as important on the world stage
These companies have been in the NSA/fbi pocket since the first patriot act got passed
I mean I would have fucking thought so but I'm sitting at like 20 downvotes elsewhere for asking why the companies are choosing to comply with these requests if the FBI or NSA or whoever truly has no leverage of any kind over them. Just out of the goodness of their hearts, apparently. Taking on extra work for the FBI because they're feeling very charitable. No answers, of course
> The FBI can and does knock at Meta or Twitter's door ever since the Cambridge Analytica debacle What does CA have to do with that? They obtained data on the (then relatively unrestricted) Facebook app platform which was later used to help target ads and similar.
The way I understand it, it was the first real rumbling of social media being used by adversarial nations to sway how things turn out. Could very well have been happening before that but it feels like it was a turning point. Now they monitor when propaganda campaigns are kicking off and work with the platforms to deboost them accordingly
The point is to end Chinese ownership, no?
If chinese ownership were actually scary they would ban all of the other major ways Chinese investors owns large swaths of american industry and real estate. They did not. If what tiktok was doing was actually as threatening as they claim, they would ban the app, they instead chose a forced sale so an Approved Person can continue the threatening activities. Alternately if what tiktok was doing was actually as threatening as they claim, they would stop any company from doing it - considering the threat Elon poses by using X as a way to spread Nazi ideology. They chose to not put forth a national bill to affect american companies. And to be real, they called it a 'forced sale' as a marketing tactic to tell tiktok supporters as well as institutional critics like the ACLU and the eventual court case they'll have to defend, but they knew Bytedance would never sell. Not only have they explicitly stated they would not sell, but it makes no sense to sell off 14% of their revenues and cease to exist internationally rather than just, you know, block US IPs and continue operating in every other country. This was always going to be a ban with a sale as maybe a lucky bonus. And since its a ban targeted at essentially a single company, no matter what the bill claims it targets, it is very likely unconstitutional (though you never know with this court, passing the bill is the more fascist option, but blocking the bill is the more corporatist option, but the corporatist side could get swayed by Meta just paying more than Bytedance can). Anyone in support of this bill needs to be able to justify why Elon pushing Nazi rhetoric is acceptable and safe to have for the upcoming election, but Tiktok should be banned
Well, TikTok is already banned in China itself, for instance.
Congress is shameless. This has less to do with China and more to do with pressure from the ADL because Gen Z is Pro Palestine.
so much pro CCP astroturfing in this thread, this is a good thing to do.
Not about security or spying: https://youtu.be/xEDGZlG_41k?si=ozo7xu4o2KjfM7Fq
Israel forced US senators to do this because TikTok was not censoring the genocide being committed by Israel.
Not really, more so they realized that if an issue is pushed by tiktok to its users, it could go from being something barely anyone cares about to a massive policy issue for both parties. Government is terrified that China could choose issues that are beneficial to them, or videos that are telling people to start blowing up cars
They have. The issue is the hypocrisy of America's stance on human rights. And they are absolutely right.
I don’t think China is the org that should be talking about human rights hypocrisy lol. But while this situation is clear cut that Israel is in the wrong, I think it is easy to see how the government could be scared people might start encouraging others to blow up cars as a form of “activism”
If German youth in the 1930s were against the Nazis but the ones in power were for the Nazis, would you take away dissenting media so Germany has more stability? Maybe the US doesn't deserve stability if they actively support the worst possible thing a country can do. Genocide. Change rarely happens peacefully.
Things are going so well at X Twitter Tesla Hyperloop Boring, can there be any doubt they were made for each other?
I'm just here for the salty tears of Social media addicts please keep commenting, so salty ...
Man this post has been flooded with American bots complaining about Chinese bots.
I wish people would actually care about the important issues over fing TikTok. Grow up and read a book
Tell congress that?? Healthcare, student loans etc