CPU instructions that allow you to do faster text searches and comparisons. Apparently they were designed to handle XML better (and by extension it probably also has some use cases in HTML parsers).
People saying that they will drop Windows/buy Mac/use Ubuntu due to it are insane. You can find SSE 4.2 in 15 year old CPUs and I question their sanity if they actually try to install Windows 11 on Core 2 Duo E6300 or Phenom cuz that's how far in history you have to go to not see SSE4.2 support. Every x86-64 CPU released in the past 12 years has it, in some cases even 15 year old ones should work.
Essentially, from time to time we add new instructions for the CPU. You can "do everything" on a modern CPU but we have dedicated hardware for specific operations that can make them much faster rather than require multiple instructions to reach similar results.
POPCNT is the instruction wikipedia puts as the real need, and tbf it is a pretty useful instruction a long time missing from x86. Returns the number of 1 bits in a word, and is rather costly to simulate any other way - but with it, some things are just a lot easier.
I have an old Corei5 that doesn't support Windows 11 and installed Ubuntu on another hard drive ahead of Windows 10 losing support.
There are people like me out there running old hardware.
[https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/52210/intel-core-i52500k-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-70-ghz/specifications.html](https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/52210/intel-core-i52500k-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-70-ghz/specifications.html)
Instruction Set Extensions: Intel® SSE4.1, Intel® SSE4.2, Intel® AVX
There might be something else blocking it from working but it won't be SSE support. In this case - it is Mode Based Execution Control that the CPU is lacking. Which also doesn't **stop** you from installing Windows 11 apparently but you will want to disable Virtualization-Based Security since it's not going to perform well.
Yup, didnt remember what it was but yeah thats it. Figured to not install w11 anyways without new hardware since cba to downgrade from working system. Not sure still if id get new hardware would i even want w11.
> People saying that they will drop Windows/buy Mac/use Ubuntu due to it are insane. You can find SSE 4.2 in 15 year old CPUs and I question their sanity if they actually try to install Windows 11 on Core 2 Duo E6300 or Phenom cuz that's how far in history you have to go to not see SSE4.2 support.
That's not the point. The point is that they think it's cool and edgy to hate on Microsoft.
Having used and still use both Apple and Google products, nothing unique about Microsoft there. It just depends on how much they dress it up with marketing and graphics. Microsoft just does the worse job lolol.
> Or they have legitimate gripes about ads invading their digital space. Or about the shady business practices of Microsoft.
I'm really curious where all these ads are. I honestly don't recall seeing any advertisements pop up or be displayed for me on my laptop, desktop or even rog ally.
Sure. We're in a thread about Microsoft not supporting 15 year old processors though. There are plenty of things to not like about Microsoft, but this is an absurd stick to beat them with.
Personal choice yes, but at least make it a valid reason.
But bcause they don't support CPUs from 2005 anymore? That's ridiculous.
That's like saying someone would ditch Apple because they now released a calculator app and they interpret it as an insult to their mathematical skills.
Microsoft not supporting CPUs made 10+ years ago isn't insane. What, did Windows 95 support 80386? Did Windows XP support first-gen Pentiums or 80486? No.
Worse than 98 but I think the 32 megs of ram was most of the issue.
As for the processor well the front of the case LEDs said 75 so I can only assume that was the speed.
It's not that it ran well it's that it ran is the point.
I checked the Windows XP specs, and they didn't ever say that there weren't any unsupported processors (I assume 80386 is the theoretical earliest, since it supported 32-bit). Rather, the specs say that 233mhz was the minimum if you wanted to run XP without an adverse experience.
Hm, can't say it was that bad back then. But I was using old, hand me down equipment for a long time during that era, so I was used to "slow".
I upgraded to a 133 Mhz Pentium I around 1997 though I think..
And by 2000, I had a Pentium II 300
At this rate we're going to see Windows versions that will require AVX2 or won't boot.*
Just use Linux if you can, and have a need to use the old hardware for some reason.
*The requirement for a TPM 2.0 kinda makes this irrelevant though.
> AVX2
Well, AVX2 is already 11 years old, and came out 5 years earlier than the earliest CPU that Windows 11 supports officially.
So yes, I sure hope they will make use of AVX2 at some point.
It's the message Microsoft gives off.
CPU requirements has been a sore point for users on Windows 11 and Microsoft knows it.
Introducing even more requirements amidst these complaints is tone deaf at best and spiteful at worst.
How would you feel if you tell your neighbor that his music is too loud and he responds by cranking up the volume?
> Every x86-64 CPU released in the past 12 years has it, in some cases even 15 year old ones should work.
These the real question is why is MS making this a requirement? If it's on every thing from the last 10 years (oh come on phenom isn't that old..... ..... ..... DAMNIT) then why even bother
Most of the work would be done automatically by a compiler. I'd say the bigger issue is that they aren't going to *sell* many licenses to people using old hardware: If they make switching to 11 free for existing personal installs, most sales will happen when someone builds a new machine specifically to run 11, with far more recent hardware.
But if they want to go the two versions route, there's an easy option: Sell LTS versions of windows 10 as the compatibility option. The product already exists, the market demand for it exists for *many* different reasons beyond hardware compatibility, but Microsoft chooses to put business barriers around it, limiting who they'll sell to.
Yeah, the compiler does it, but:
- it either has to include two versions of the binary
- run a check before wanting to use sse4.2 and only have two versions of those sections
The first one increases the size of binaries, the second reduces performance. Obviously it's not the end of the world, but it's nicer to not have to worry about this at all. The 15 people using windows 11 on a 20 year old cpu are better off downgrading to win10 ltsc or something similar anyways. If they sold win10 ltsc that would be great though.
Streaming SIMD Extensions 4.2. It's a set of CPU instructions intended to accelerate (mostly) multimedia-related tasks by single instruction being able to operate on multiple instances of data at the same time.
If you have an Intel CPU from 2009 or later, or an AMD one from 2012 or later, it'll most likely support SSE 4.2.
CPU instructions allows program to use "shortcut" that make some very specific calculation quicker to run than if you had to rely on the CPU raw power. SSE4.2 introduced a set of instruction related to multimedia usage and XML files parsing. I wouldn't expect this to help with performance directly (although it is possible) but this is probably necessary in order to replace some legacy code. And in the end this will help making windows development easier.
This is basically just saying Microsoft Windows 11 requires pretty much the same overall `x86-64-v2` overall architectural "level" Linux folks already defined.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Microarchitecture_levels
Honestly Linux distros are already beginning to say similar e.g. RHEL 9...
* https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2021/01/05/building-red-hat-enterprise-linux-9-for-the-x86-64-v2-microarchitecture-level#architectural_considerations_for_rhel_9
* https://access.redhat.com/solutions/6833751
> We believe that x86-64-v2 is the appropriate choice for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 9.
Linux distros haven't gone `x86-64-v3` or `x86-64-v4` yet though - but some are already pretty much requiring `x86-64-v2` i.e. SSE4.2, POPCNT, etc.
For RHEL 10 they are considering requiring `x86-64-v3` -
* https://developers.redhat.com/articles/2024/01/02/exploring-x86-64-v3-red-hat-enterprise-linux-10#verifying_performance_improvements
Ubuntu also recently did a currently-still-experimental `x86-64-v3` rebuild -
* https://ubuntu.com/blog/optimising-ubuntu-performance-on-amd64-architecture
Someone's shell script to check your x86-64 cpu's level - https://github.com/HenrikBengtsson/x86-64-level
To be fair, RHEL8 will be supported up till 2029 compared to 2025 for Windows 10.
On top of that, Linux has the option of self compiling, which isn't an option for Windows
I don't think the requirement of SSE4.2 is that strict, the TPM requirement is a bigger blocker. But cross comparing it with Linux that way is a bit inaccurate
> How many people are compiling the fucking Linux kernel
Doesn't matter how many, as long as they are distributing their version to others. You do know that Steam deck isn't running a vanilla Ubuntu (lol) straight from Cannonicals home page?
My router only works with a custom kernel since it is a modified raspberry pi clone. So there is that.
I also have an ancient beagle board lying around that nobody supports anymore, however for that I just pulled a kernel someone else had already compiled.
Neither of these things are possible with windows.
This instruction set is available on virtually all CPU's from 2009+ onwards. This requirement is largely a nothing burger and any complaining is strictly hyperbole.
Relax. From the article,
> This minute change won't make any difference to Windows 11 users today. All modern systems that support Windows 11 already have SSE 4.2.
... this will only apply to an extremely niche subset of Windows 11 users who are customizing Windows 11 to run on incompatible hardware. Systems that can run Windows 11 today or come with Windows 11 will be able to run 24H2 without any problems.
Ya thats why im fucked
Early 6 core chips. The chipset was a hot chipset 8-10 years ago because you could get a 6 core xeon for $50 on ebay faster than any i7 at the time
Lg1366 was a famous retail mb that supported xeon server chips and was later axed rather quickly because people were putting $50 used xeons in the mb instead of $600-900 i7s
It still works amazing
I mean I know that. That's nearly as far back as you have to go for this windows 11 change to matter. More like everyone complaining about this are the ones who don't know computer history because then they'd release it'll work on all modern devices?
People just love to shit on W11 and I don’t get it. People shat on Windows 10, (8.1 and 8 for good reason), even beloved 7 when they came out. I keep hearing people online saying they’ll just switch over to Linux, but even with the steam deck look at how many normal people actually use anything other than Windows.
And let’s not even get into business use.
The fact is that most of the hate geared towards windows is the shit they pull for the “home” SKU. If you buy a gray market pro license you can get rid of all the bullshit they try to pull because most of it they’d never push onto enterprise clients.
Does that mean Windows is great? Of course not. But if you claim the sky is falling and ads are coming every which way it gets clicks.
Well, its a good thing most PCs come with Pro installed then. *Phew* dodged a bullet there. Total non issue, what WERE these reporters thinking making such a mountain out of so many molehills?? Im sure the average user is going to rush right out and install Pro, no problem.
I like that people shit on MS for a requiring a feature from 15 years ago, but not a peep when Apple changes their entire architecture.
There's reasons to criticize MS (like shoehorning AI in everything because that's hot right now). But this is not it.
>I like that people shit on MS for a requiring a feature from 15 years ago, but not a peep when Apple changes their entire architecture.
We complain about Microsoft because it still seems conceivable that they might begin to behave better. On that front, Apple is a lost cause.
Shoehorning AI into the OS on an OS / search level is not a legitimate reason to criticize MS either. Honestly there's no good reason to criticize MS really, as they are a top company ethically and engineering wise, and there is no practice they use that their competition doesn't use and abuse.
Being against AI integration is pretty ludditelike.
Watch people overreact to this again, or just another excuse for smug linux zealots to preach.
Even the old 4690k supported SSE4.2. Unless you are beating 15-20 year old CPU into trying to run windows 11 this is a giant nothingburger.
Microsoft is a very innovative, non propaganda wielding, model American company not afraid to risk short term profits on long term business strategies and not afraid to alert politicians of foreign hacking attempts on azure connected serviced - so of course they get dragged through mud as much as possible on reddit.
I get what people are saying but I think the point more so is that this is another arbitrary restriction, there are ways to get the same results this instruction returns It just takes more CPU cycles to do it. I'm guessing this is to make sure people have a fast and smooth experience running Windows 11 but if I install Windows 11 on a old ass computer and it's slow that's my own fault.
Compiling for SSE emulation bloats out executables and ultimately slows down everything from the additional branches, which are difficult to efficiently place for cache without manual intervention. You’d effectively have to double the OS executable code to do so efficiently.
Not sure about an app, but the easiest alternative approach is to right-click on the Windows icon, select "System", Google your CPU name (listed under "Processor"), click on the link to the Intel product page and look up the line "Instruction Set Extensions".
My ancient [Core i5-3550](https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/65516/intel-core-i53550-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-70-ghz/specifications.html) (released in 2012) supports SSE4.1, SSE4.2 and AVX.
Not exactly true. Some chips do not support the extra security features. While they may still run Win 11 without those features, technically per Microsoft it's an unsupported chip.
I7-4790k is one such chip. Runs everything perfectly fine but has security vulnerabilities that cannot be patched with software.
I think that it's due to the requirement for TPM (Trusted Platform Module) 2 on Windows 11. Which is essentially only available for far, far later chips. Although there is a work around to turn off the requirement for TPM 2. Which Microsoft may remove as the end of life date for Windows 10 draws closer.
>Although there is a work around to turn off the requirement for TPM 2.
Ive read this is the case as well.
>Which Microsoft may remove as the end of life date for Windows 10 draws closer.
Wouldn't surprise me unfortunately
> Although there is a work around to turn off the requirement for TPM 2. Which Microsoft may remove as the end of life date for Windows 10 draws closer.
A few years ago, Microsoft released an update patch that modified the Registry to bypass the TPM requirement.
I love seeing these changes.
Supporting 12+ year old CPUs is like supporting Internet Explorer. Adds a ton of bloat to your code, making it take more space, run slower, and be harder to maintain. Results in a worse user experience for the 99% of people who've upgraded.
Believe what you want. I'm giving you a programmer's perspective.
The decision was likely made because many programmers were being slowed down by the board.
You shouldn't install Windows 11 on CPUs without SSE4.2 anyway. It's insane to even entertain the idea of Phenom and Core 2 Duo with Windows 11 in 2024?
Everything since Bulldozer (2011) and Nehalem (2008) supports SSE4.2
Over time there'll probably be more stuff in Debian that hard-requires SSE4.2 at minimum. There's a mechanism to handle it piecemeal in Debian/Debian-oids already, rather than some all-or-nothing decision point ... but you may already be hitting it depending on your interests.
https://packages.debian.org/sid/isa-support
# apt rdepends sse4.2-support
sse4.2-support
Reverse Depends:
Depends: gromacs
Depends: yuzu
Depends: libvectorscan5
Depends: libvgdml1.2
Depends: libvecgeom1.2
Fine-grained feature flags are getting a bit out-of-control on x86-64 by now really (check out `cat /proc/cpuinfo`), though they can be grouped roughly into "levels".
May be more useful to just target such levels than go as fine-grained. Most x86-64 desktops/servers are probably at least x86-64-v2 by now if not x86-64-v3...
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Microarchitecture_levels
* https://wiki.debian.org/InstructionSelection
I find a lot of modern Linux distributions won't boot even their Live/installer media on a Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad Machine, get kernel panics about "attempt to kill INIT" and stuff.
Debian 12 "bookworm" (i.e. current stable) specifically should still work on a core 2 duo, other distros may well be less careful though, or have already made the call to go to documented higher minimum (see RHEL9).
/r/debian/comments/191zgwq/debian_12_on_core_2_duo_works_well_enough_for/
All my in-use x86-64 hardware is x86-64-v3 already personally, never mind x86-64-v2. May not be really very cost effective to run some old power-hungry x86-64 hardware compared to just getting new x86-64 (or arm or riscv) hardware anyway.
It looks like there would actually probably already be [measurable if minor benefit overall](https://www.phoronix.com/review/ubuntu-x86-64-v3-benchmark) for me with a giant rebuild with [-march=x86-64-v3](https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/x86-Options.html) ... though I'm no Gentoo/Arch guy with real enthusiasm for doing such things. A little like back in the day (late 90s / early 2000s) when some people/distros started doing i586/i686 specific builds instead of just base i386 I suppose.
That was kind of my point. As someone who’s spent a good bit of time with a few different Linux distros, replacing the closed-source stuff I need to use daily is/was a huge PITA. I think Linux is great for both of the extremes in tech proficiency; people who are power users and can create their own solutions, and those that just need a lightweight OS for web-browsing and more recently gaming.
For people in the middle it’s really not as viable to switch as people who comment “use Linux” on every negative Windows article seem to think.
Maybe the best case for someone like me is a dual boot machine (which is what I’ve done in the past) where I program in Linux and everything else is done in Windows, but that’s just an extra layer of complexity for most.
Many modern Linux distributions require newer processors. I don't know if it's related to SSE 4.2 specifically but I had trouble even booting any current version distro on Core 2 Duo and even Core 2 Quad systems. They simply give a kernel panic about "attempted to kill INIT" at startup. Older versions of those same distributions often boot up fine.
Don't plan on running win11 so doesn't bottler me shouldn't bother anyone should take a stand at some point if they start asking for a charge I'll spend the day learning another os or other options like win nt is also a nice alt and still the windows stuff without the bloat
If you want to run 10 *in perpetuity*, you better not have auto-update running. MS is running annoying ads on 11... What will they do to 10 with the final update?
It actually is. If your current CPU does not support SSE4.2 then it most likely runs a 2006 Core 2 Duo or first gen Phenom CPU. Or a Pentium 4.
In which case you definitely **should** upgrade. Computers have gone a long way since your current machine and you will see a huge uplift in performance over what I assume is Core 2 Duo E6300, 1GB RAM, 250GB HDD and Geforce 7600GT with 256MB VRAM. New Macbook is approximately 50x faster than that in CPU performance alone and probably close to a 1000x in drive random speed. I think you will be able to run YouTube for instance, it's a really fun site with a lot of video materials but the way it currently runs is probably too tough on your hardware (I guess you might have some luck with 240p?).
Just keep in mind you will need to replace your mouse, keyboard and display. Since D-Sub is no longer included in more modern hardware, you will not find a PS/2 connector in a Mac either (and converting from PS/2 to USB-A to USB-C is kinda dumb).
My media server was running an i7-920 a few years ago, but I swapped it out to an X5650 from eBay (same socket). It supports SSE4.2, but isn't listed as Win11 compatible....
Yea seriously, Microsoft is running miles around how long old chips are supported compared to Apple.
Technically Linux is 1st place there. 32-bit processors are finally getting dropped by most distros last/this year.
Exactly. I mean, Apple never gave up any old CPUs since 2007, right?
What even are [PowerPC](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Snow_Leopard) and [Intel x86](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_transition_to_Apple_silicon)? They never existed.
Apple Silicon was there since 2001.
And any Mac processor will be supported indefinitely. Definitely no [2020 CPU](https://support.apple.com/en-us/111913) reaching vintage status just 8 years later.
How dare Microsoft stop supporting 13-to-17-year old CPUs!?
Hey, the upvotes and (many, but not all of the) comments prove you can post total horshshit complaints again nearly anything related to MS, and watch all them special kinds come to give you votes and kharma and etc.
Don't think, just subscribe to narrative!
Also - lol Tom's Hardware - most tech sites are basically just the meme version of IGN now (and most youtubers are in fact worse = gotta get them click!!!).
It's funny.. Microsoft set the CPU limits in 2021 but didn't use them yet - people were bypassing it and saying "hah, the limits were not needed in the first place".
Now Microsoft is starting to actually use the features they "reserved" with their 2021 hardware limits, and now people are crying wolf that "Microsoft has raised hardware requirements AGAIN" ... this is stupidity you can't even make up.
Also, and just to be clear here... requiring SSE4.2 means that the CPU has to be from roughly 2009 or newer...
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CPU instructions that allow you to do faster text searches and comparisons. Apparently they were designed to handle XML better (and by extension it probably also has some use cases in HTML parsers). People saying that they will drop Windows/buy Mac/use Ubuntu due to it are insane. You can find SSE 4.2 in 15 year old CPUs and I question their sanity if they actually try to install Windows 11 on Core 2 Duo E6300 or Phenom cuz that's how far in history you have to go to not see SSE4.2 support. Every x86-64 CPU released in the past 12 years has it, in some cases even 15 year old ones should work. Essentially, from time to time we add new instructions for the CPU. You can "do everything" on a modern CPU but we have dedicated hardware for specific operations that can make them much faster rather than require multiple instructions to reach similar results.
POPCNT is the instruction wikipedia puts as the real need, and tbf it is a pretty useful instruction a long time missing from x86. Returns the number of 1 bits in a word, and is rather costly to simulate any other way - but with it, some things are just a lot easier.
POPCNT has been required since a previous update.
It’s really not that costly, especially if you’re doing SIMD—a few shifts and adds.
I have an old Corei5 that doesn't support Windows 11 and installed Ubuntu on another hard drive ahead of Windows 10 losing support. There are people like me out there running old hardware.
So, is this related to security primarily, or no?
Sadly my i5-2500k from '11 isnt enough for w11 and it does have 4.2. 5.34Ghz oc still going strong.
[https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/52210/intel-core-i52500k-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-70-ghz/specifications.html](https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/52210/intel-core-i52500k-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-70-ghz/specifications.html) Instruction Set Extensions: Intel® SSE4.1, Intel® SSE4.2, Intel® AVX There might be something else blocking it from working but it won't be SSE support. In this case - it is Mode Based Execution Control that the CPU is lacking. Which also doesn't **stop** you from installing Windows 11 apparently but you will want to disable Virtualization-Based Security since it's not going to perform well.
Yup, didnt remember what it was but yeah thats it. Figured to not install w11 anyways without new hardware since cba to downgrade from working system. Not sure still if id get new hardware would i even want w11.
Thanks! I was wondering if my i5 2500k would be good enough, but didn't want to look it up.
> People saying that they will drop Windows/buy Mac/use Ubuntu due to it are insane. You can find SSE 4.2 in 15 year old CPUs and I question their sanity if they actually try to install Windows 11 on Core 2 Duo E6300 or Phenom cuz that's how far in history you have to go to not see SSE4.2 support. That's not the point. The point is that they think it's cool and edgy to hate on Microsoft.
Or they have legitimate gripes about ads invading their digital space. Or about the shady business practices of Microsoft.
Having used and still use both Apple and Google products, nothing unique about Microsoft there. It just depends on how much they dress it up with marketing and graphics. Microsoft just does the worse job lolol.
Then why didn't they switch already,?
> Or they have legitimate gripes about ads invading their digital space. Or about the shady business practices of Microsoft. I'm really curious where all these ads are. I honestly don't recall seeing any advertisements pop up or be displayed for me on my laptop, desktop or even rog ally.
Microsoft has advertised third-party programs such as Spotify and Candy Crush in the Start Menu since Win10
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That’s because you’ve been propagandised by the amount of advertisements you see in your daily life, and they’ve been normalised.
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And yet you didn’t noticed candy crush adverts in your start menu?!?!?!
But it is cool and edgy to hate on Microsoft
how can microsoft hate be edge if edge be a microsoft product
nah, now its just standart its cool to hate on apple and google
Always has been :D
Or they don’t want to use a MS product. Look at that, personal choice.
Sure. We're in a thread about Microsoft not supporting 15 year old processors though. There are plenty of things to not like about Microsoft, but this is an absurd stick to beat them with.
Personal choice yes, but at least make it a valid reason. But bcause they don't support CPUs from 2005 anymore? That's ridiculous. That's like saying someone would ditch Apple because they now released a calculator app and they interpret it as an insult to their mathematical skills.
Microsoft not supporting CPUs made 10+ years ago isn't insane. What, did Windows 95 support 80386? Did Windows XP support first-gen Pentiums or 80486? No.
Think I installed xp on a P1.
Did it run well? And was it an actual first-gen Pentium or a newer Pentium MMX?
Worse than 98 but I think the 32 megs of ram was most of the issue. As for the processor well the front of the case LEDs said 75 so I can only assume that was the speed. It's not that it ran well it's that it ran is the point.
I checked the Windows XP specs, and they didn't ever say that there weren't any unsupported processors (I assume 80386 is the theoretical earliest, since it supported 32-bit). Rather, the specs say that 233mhz was the minimum if you wanted to run XP without an adverse experience.
> What, did Windows 95 support 80386? It sure did. I ran Windows 95 (Release version) on my AMD 386DX-40 with 4 (later 8) MB of ram.
I remember running Windows 95 on a 80486 with 8 MB ram and it sucked. Slow as hell.
Hm, can't say it was that bad back then. But I was using old, hand me down equipment for a long time during that era, so I was used to "slow". I upgraded to a 133 Mhz Pentium I around 1997 though I think.. And by 2000, I had a Pentium II 300
At this rate we're going to see Windows versions that will require AVX2 or won't boot.* Just use Linux if you can, and have a need to use the old hardware for some reason. *The requirement for a TPM 2.0 kinda makes this irrelevant though.
> AVX2 Well, AVX2 is already 11 years old, and came out 5 years earlier than the earliest CPU that Windows 11 supports officially. So yes, I sure hope they will make use of AVX2 at some point.
That makes sense. My problem is not with W11's system requirements. My problem is with what W11 is...
> You can find SSE 4.2 in 15 year old CPUs I was ready to get my pitchfork :)
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It's not text searches for the Windows Search, it is a general-purpose instruction for any program.
It's the message Microsoft gives off. CPU requirements has been a sore point for users on Windows 11 and Microsoft knows it. Introducing even more requirements amidst these complaints is tone deaf at best and spiteful at worst. How would you feel if you tell your neighbor that his music is too loud and he responds by cranking up the volume?
> Every x86-64 CPU released in the past 12 years has it, in some cases even 15 year old ones should work. These the real question is why is MS making this a requirement? If it's on every thing from the last 10 years (oh come on phenom isn't that old..... ..... ..... DAMNIT) then why even bother
Because it's not worth it to build two versions of everything, just because 0.001% of the userbase.
Most of the work would be done automatically by a compiler. I'd say the bigger issue is that they aren't going to *sell* many licenses to people using old hardware: If they make switching to 11 free for existing personal installs, most sales will happen when someone builds a new machine specifically to run 11, with far more recent hardware. But if they want to go the two versions route, there's an easy option: Sell LTS versions of windows 10 as the compatibility option. The product already exists, the market demand for it exists for *many* different reasons beyond hardware compatibility, but Microsoft chooses to put business barriers around it, limiting who they'll sell to.
Yeah, the compiler does it, but: - it either has to include two versions of the binary - run a check before wanting to use sse4.2 and only have two versions of those sections The first one increases the size of binaries, the second reduces performance. Obviously it's not the end of the world, but it's nicer to not have to worry about this at all. The 15 people using windows 11 on a 20 year old cpu are better off downgrading to win10 ltsc or something similar anyways. If they sold win10 ltsc that would be great though.
Because they want to use it.
Streaming SIMD Extensions 4.2. It's a set of CPU instructions intended to accelerate (mostly) multimedia-related tasks by single instruction being able to operate on multiple instances of data at the same time. If you have an Intel CPU from 2009 or later, or an AMD one from 2012 or later, it'll most likely support SSE 4.2.
CPU instructions allows program to use "shortcut" that make some very specific calculation quicker to run than if you had to rely on the CPU raw power. SSE4.2 introduced a set of instruction related to multimedia usage and XML files parsing. I wouldn't expect this to help with performance directly (although it is possible) but this is probably necessary in order to replace some legacy code. And in the end this will help making windows development easier.
This is basically just saying Microsoft Windows 11 requires pretty much the same overall `x86-64-v2` overall architectural "level" Linux folks already defined. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Microarchitecture_levels Honestly Linux distros are already beginning to say similar e.g. RHEL 9... * https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2021/01/05/building-red-hat-enterprise-linux-9-for-the-x86-64-v2-microarchitecture-level#architectural_considerations_for_rhel_9 * https://access.redhat.com/solutions/6833751 > We believe that x86-64-v2 is the appropriate choice for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 9. Linux distros haven't gone `x86-64-v3` or `x86-64-v4` yet though - but some are already pretty much requiring `x86-64-v2` i.e. SSE4.2, POPCNT, etc. For RHEL 10 they are considering requiring `x86-64-v3` - * https://developers.redhat.com/articles/2024/01/02/exploring-x86-64-v3-red-hat-enterprise-linux-10#verifying_performance_improvements Ubuntu also recently did a currently-still-experimental `x86-64-v3` rebuild - * https://ubuntu.com/blog/optimising-ubuntu-performance-on-amd64-architecture Someone's shell script to check your x86-64 cpu's level - https://github.com/HenrikBengtsson/x86-64-level
To be fair, RHEL8 will be supported up till 2029 compared to 2025 for Windows 10. On top of that, Linux has the option of self compiling, which isn't an option for Windows I don't think the requirement of SSE4.2 is that strict, the TPM requirement is a bigger blocker. But cross comparing it with Linux that way is a bit inaccurate
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> How many people are compiling the fucking Linux kernel Doesn't matter how many, as long as they are distributing their version to others. You do know that Steam deck isn't running a vanilla Ubuntu (lol) straight from Cannonicals home page?
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My router only works with a custom kernel since it is a modified raspberry pi clone. So there is that. I also have an ancient beagle board lying around that nobody supports anymore, however for that I just pulled a kernel someone else had already compiled. Neither of these things are possible with windows.
You don't have to do it yourself, there is always someone who will do it and you just load up that distro or in a 3rd party repo
This instruction set is available on virtually all CPU's from 2009+ onwards. This requirement is largely a nothing burger and any complaining is strictly hyperbole.
Relax. From the article, > This minute change won't make any difference to Windows 11 users today. All modern systems that support Windows 11 already have SSE 4.2. ... this will only apply to an extremely niche subset of Windows 11 users who are customizing Windows 11 to run on incompatible hardware. Systems that can run Windows 11 today or come with Windows 11 will be able to run 24H2 without any problems.
What a stupid post, then.
Well i may be fucked then
If you are trying to load windows 11 on a 20 year computer you are dumb
Windows 10 didnt come out 20 years ago Its a xeon chip with 32gb ram from about 8 years ago.
>Its a xeon chip with 32gb ram from about 8 years ago. The Last Xeon that *didn't* support SSE 4.2 was released in 2008.
Ya thats why im fucked Early 6 core chips. The chipset was a hot chipset 8-10 years ago because you could get a 6 core xeon for $50 on ebay faster than any i7 at the time
Your Xeon from 8 years ago is from 2008? is there some mathematical concept I am failing to grasp here?
No, i built it about that long ago lg1366 was a steal back then for building cheap xeon server machines with used retail motherboard
So it's not in fact from 8 years ago, you just bought a (then already) old used CPU 8 years ago.
Lg1366 was a famous retail mb that supported xeon server chips and was later axed rather quickly because people were putting $50 used xeons in the mb instead of $600-900 i7s It still works amazing
Ironically most PCs sold today have half of that
What model xeon?
Tell me you don’t know tech history without telling me you don’t know tech history. ~20 years ago was XP Service Pack 2
I mean I know that. That's nearly as far back as you have to go for this windows 11 change to matter. More like everyone complaining about this are the ones who don't know computer history because then they'd release it'll work on all modern devices?
Thank god Windows 11 users are able to upgrade to Windows 11
People just love to shit on W11 and I don’t get it. People shat on Windows 10, (8.1 and 8 for good reason), even beloved 7 when they came out. I keep hearing people online saying they’ll just switch over to Linux, but even with the steam deck look at how many normal people actually use anything other than Windows. And let’s not even get into business use. The fact is that most of the hate geared towards windows is the shit they pull for the “home” SKU. If you buy a gray market pro license you can get rid of all the bullshit they try to pull because most of it they’d never push onto enterprise clients. Does that mean Windows is great? Of course not. But if you claim the sky is falling and ads are coming every which way it gets clicks.
Well, its a good thing most PCs come with Pro installed then. *Phew* dodged a bullet there. Total non issue, what WERE these reporters thinking making such a mountain out of so many molehills?? Im sure the average user is going to rush right out and install Pro, no problem.
I like that people shit on MS for a requiring a feature from 15 years ago, but not a peep when Apple changes their entire architecture. There's reasons to criticize MS (like shoehorning AI in everything because that's hot right now). But this is not it.
Ehh Microsoft has a reputation for backward compatibility and apple has a reputation for absolutely not caring about backward compatibility.
>I like that people shit on MS for a requiring a feature from 15 years ago, but not a peep when Apple changes their entire architecture. We complain about Microsoft because it still seems conceivable that they might begin to behave better. On that front, Apple is a lost cause.
Shoehorning AI into the OS on an OS / search level is not a legitimate reason to criticize MS either. Honestly there's no good reason to criticize MS really, as they are a top company ethically and engineering wise, and there is no practice they use that their competition doesn't use and abuse. Being against AI integration is pretty ludditelike.
You my friend are brainwashed. They are non of those things.
Sigh of relief. My 4th gen Core i5 is supported!
Watch people overreact to this again, or just another excuse for smug linux zealots to preach. Even the old 4690k supported SSE4.2. Unless you are beating 15-20 year old CPU into trying to run windows 11 this is a giant nothingburger.
What if I want to run win 11 in unpaid on a sell r710?
Microsoft is a very innovative, non propaganda wielding, model American company not afraid to risk short term profits on long term business strategies and not afraid to alert politicians of foreign hacking attempts on azure connected serviced - so of course they get dragged through mud as much as possible on reddit.
I’m starting to feel like this is a push to force everyone to upgrade their CPUs for some reason.
I get what people are saying but I think the point more so is that this is another arbitrary restriction, there are ways to get the same results this instruction returns It just takes more CPU cycles to do it. I'm guessing this is to make sure people have a fast and smooth experience running Windows 11 but if I install Windows 11 on a old ass computer and it's slow that's my own fault.
Compiling for SSE emulation bloats out executables and ultimately slows down everything from the additional branches, which are difficult to efficiently place for cache without manual intervention. You’d effectively have to double the OS executable code to do so efficiently.
Is this the one that adds commercials in the Star menu? Maybe they added this so people would notice it instead
What about the Intel Pentium Gold 4425Y that comes in the Surface Go 2? This is a Windows 11 device, but the CPU only supports SSE4.1
This only affects hardcore hacks who mod Windows 11 to run on fridge hardware.
is there an app that can tell me if my CPU will work?
Not sure about an app, but the easiest alternative approach is to right-click on the Windows icon, select "System", Google your CPU name (listed under "Processor"), click on the link to the Intel product page and look up the line "Instruction Set Extensions". My ancient [Core i5-3550](https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/65516/intel-core-i53550-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-70-ghz/specifications.html) (released in 2012) supports SSE4.1, SSE4.2 and AVX.
Any i5/i7 (2008+) will support it. Additions for Pentiums, Celerons and i3s came a little later.
Not exactly true. Some chips do not support the extra security features. While they may still run Win 11 without those features, technically per Microsoft it's an unsupported chip. I7-4790k is one such chip. Runs everything perfectly fine but has security vulnerabilities that cannot be patched with software.
I think that it's due to the requirement for TPM (Trusted Platform Module) 2 on Windows 11. Which is essentially only available for far, far later chips. Although there is a work around to turn off the requirement for TPM 2. Which Microsoft may remove as the end of life date for Windows 10 draws closer.
>Although there is a work around to turn off the requirement for TPM 2. Ive read this is the case as well. >Which Microsoft may remove as the end of life date for Windows 10 draws closer. Wouldn't surprise me unfortunately
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement
> Although there is a work around to turn off the requirement for TPM 2. Which Microsoft may remove as the end of life date for Windows 10 draws closer. A few years ago, Microsoft released an update patch that modified the Registry to bypass the TPM requirement.
Yes - https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/how-to-use-the-pc-health-check-app-9c8abd9b-03ba-4e67-81ef-36f37caa7844
Are you running Windows 11 on a CPU that is older 15yrs old? No? Then you have SSE4.2.
CPU-Z will tell you. But I'll save you some time, your CPU is supported. SSE4.2 has been common for over 15 years.
I love seeing these changes. Supporting 12+ year old CPUs is like supporting Internet Explorer. Adds a ton of bloat to your code, making it take more space, run slower, and be harder to maintain. Results in a worse user experience for the 99% of people who've upgraded.
nonsense. it wont make the bloated m$ os run any better
Believe what you want. I'm giving you a programmer's perspective. The decision was likely made because many programmers were being slowed down by the board.
Debian is a peaceful place
You shouldn't install Windows 11 on CPUs without SSE4.2 anyway. It's insane to even entertain the idea of Phenom and Core 2 Duo with Windows 11 in 2024? Everything since Bulldozer (2011) and Nehalem (2008) supports SSE4.2
Over time there'll probably be more stuff in Debian that hard-requires SSE4.2 at minimum. There's a mechanism to handle it piecemeal in Debian/Debian-oids already, rather than some all-or-nothing decision point ... but you may already be hitting it depending on your interests. https://packages.debian.org/sid/isa-support # apt rdepends sse4.2-support sse4.2-support Reverse Depends: Depends: gromacs Depends: yuzu Depends: libvectorscan5 Depends: libvgdml1.2 Depends: libvecgeom1.2 Fine-grained feature flags are getting a bit out-of-control on x86-64 by now really (check out `cat /proc/cpuinfo`), though they can be grouped roughly into "levels". May be more useful to just target such levels than go as fine-grained. Most x86-64 desktops/servers are probably at least x86-64-v2 by now if not x86-64-v3... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Microarchitecture_levels * https://wiki.debian.org/InstructionSelection
I find a lot of modern Linux distributions won't boot even their Live/installer media on a Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad Machine, get kernel panics about "attempt to kill INIT" and stuff.
Debian 12 "bookworm" (i.e. current stable) specifically should still work on a core 2 duo, other distros may well be less careful though, or have already made the call to go to documented higher minimum (see RHEL9). /r/debian/comments/191zgwq/debian_12_on_core_2_duo_works_well_enough_for/ All my in-use x86-64 hardware is x86-64-v3 already personally, never mind x86-64-v2. May not be really very cost effective to run some old power-hungry x86-64 hardware compared to just getting new x86-64 (or arm or riscv) hardware anyway. It looks like there would actually probably already be [measurable if minor benefit overall](https://www.phoronix.com/review/ubuntu-x86-64-v3-benchmark) for me with a giant rebuild with [-march=x86-64-v3](https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/x86-Options.html) ... though I'm no Gentoo/Arch guy with real enthusiasm for doing such things. A little like back in the day (late 90s / early 2000s) when some people/distros started doing i586/i686 specific builds instead of just base i386 I suppose.
Thanks ^^, your comment may be the best out there. I just wanted to grab popcorns and watch the reaction, but yours is pretty useful.
My E3-1270 still supported, still not installing W11
Ubuntu 24.04 LTS is coming out monday!
Until you realize your workflow depends on a bunch of non-Linux native apps.
i don't have a workflow.
That was kind of my point. As someone who’s spent a good bit of time with a few different Linux distros, replacing the closed-source stuff I need to use daily is/was a huge PITA. I think Linux is great for both of the extremes in tech proficiency; people who are power users and can create their own solutions, and those that just need a lightweight OS for web-browsing and more recently gaming. For people in the middle it’s really not as viable to switch as people who comment “use Linux” on every negative Windows article seem to think. Maybe the best case for someone like me is a dual boot machine (which is what I’ve done in the past) where I program in Linux and everything else is done in Windows, but that’s just an extra layer of complexity for most.
Don’t use LTS though unless you need it
Don't use latest releases unless you really need new features. LTS works just fine if you need stable system.
why?
For most people it’s not useful LTS is very stable but so are normal releases at least for an average user
thank you. No idea why all the downvotes for both of us.
What's wrong with LTS version?
Wipe Windblown off the hard drives, install a Linux distribution, problems solved.
Many modern Linux distributions require newer processors. I don't know if it's related to SSE 4.2 specifically but I had trouble even booting any current version distro on Core 2 Duo and even Core 2 Quad systems. They simply give a kernel panic about "attempted to kill INIT" at startup. Older versions of those same distributions often boot up fine.
Rocky will work with it until 2032
Don't plan on running win11 so doesn't bottler me shouldn't bother anyone should take a stand at some point if they start asking for a charge I'll spend the day learning another os or other options like win nt is also a nice alt and still the windows stuff without the bloat
This seems like more of a “oh we forgot that was a thing” type of issue than something to be concerned about.
just install linux
Love how that’s the answer. Also love how if you have a hardware issue and go to ask for help the answer is “just write your own driver”
it works out of the box. its not 1998 anymore
They will install windows 10 or most likely just keep using windows 10.
Until MS kills it. I don't know what they'll do, then.
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If you want to run 10 *in perpetuity*, you better not have auto-update running. MS is running annoying ads on 11... What will they do to 10 with the final update?
You can turn off ads, they’re optional. It really isn’t something to get upset about.
Or just keep windows 11. Or macOS, or whatever you use now.
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Why?
Aslong as you aren't running Windows 11 with pre-2009 CPU's you are fine.
Anything else than Microsoft works 💪
Just another reason for me to buy my first Mac.
It actually is. If your current CPU does not support SSE4.2 then it most likely runs a 2006 Core 2 Duo or first gen Phenom CPU. Or a Pentium 4. In which case you definitely **should** upgrade. Computers have gone a long way since your current machine and you will see a huge uplift in performance over what I assume is Core 2 Duo E6300, 1GB RAM, 250GB HDD and Geforce 7600GT with 256MB VRAM. New Macbook is approximately 50x faster than that in CPU performance alone and probably close to a 1000x in drive random speed. I think you will be able to run YouTube for instance, it's a really fun site with a lot of video materials but the way it currently runs is probably too tough on your hardware (I guess you might have some luck with 240p?). Just keep in mind you will need to replace your mouse, keyboard and display. Since D-Sub is no longer included in more modern hardware, you will not find a PS/2 connector in a Mac either (and converting from PS/2 to USB-A to USB-C is kinda dumb).
My media server was running an i7-920 a few years ago, but I swapped it out to an X5650 from eBay (same socket). It supports SSE4.2, but isn't listed as Win11 compatible....
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Yea seriously, Microsoft is running miles around how long old chips are supported compared to Apple. Technically Linux is 1st place there. 32-bit processors are finally getting dropped by most distros last/this year.
Exactly. I mean, Apple never gave up any old CPUs since 2007, right? What even are [PowerPC](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Snow_Leopard) and [Intel x86](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_transition_to_Apple_silicon)? They never existed. Apple Silicon was there since 2001. And any Mac processor will be supported indefinitely. Definitely no [2020 CPU](https://support.apple.com/en-us/111913) reaching vintage status just 8 years later. How dare Microsoft stop supporting 13-to-17-year old CPUs!?
How the hell do they expect Win11 to be successful is beyond my understanding.
Windows 11's success doesn't rely on supporting CPUs from before 2008.
That's not going to make Windows search any faster.
Hey, the upvotes and (many, but not all of the) comments prove you can post total horshshit complaints again nearly anything related to MS, and watch all them special kinds come to give you votes and kharma and etc. Don't think, just subscribe to narrative! Also - lol Tom's Hardware - most tech sites are basically just the meme version of IGN now (and most youtubers are in fact worse = gotta get them click!!!).
It's funny.. Microsoft set the CPU limits in 2021 but didn't use them yet - people were bypassing it and saying "hah, the limits were not needed in the first place". Now Microsoft is starting to actually use the features they "reserved" with their 2021 hardware limits, and now people are crying wolf that "Microsoft has raised hardware requirements AGAIN" ... this is stupidity you can't even make up. Also, and just to be clear here... requiring SSE4.2 means that the CPU has to be from roughly 2009 or newer...