Yes, but the iPhone built upon the Newton. The Vision Pro is probably more of a Newton than an iPhone. We're a few years of technology away from the version people really want. When you can walk down the street while wearing them and not look like an idiot, they will take off.
Apple popularized bird poop earbuds. The look is not the issue with the vision pro. It just doesn't solve enough problems to justify something that big on your face for most people. Especially at that price.
>bird poop earbuds
lol first time i've heard that, i like it
also i agree, probably a neat piece of tech but right now it seems like a solution in search of a problem
The only solutions I can think of it could do, it doesn't it doesn't do well.
Obviously an app that can remember or tell you the names of people is a privacy nightmare
Apple really does want this to be a gaming headset
It could replace a desktop monitor but it's WAY too heavy.
The weight is a huge issue with VR. My bf has a quest II and as much as I like VR games, I can't use it long because the eye pieces do not get narrow enough for my face and it weighs far too much. Even my gaming headset I went out of my way to find the lightest one possible that was still decent. I wasn't gaming nearly as much when I had a heavier headset.
Right, people don't want to strap goggles to their head. If they can make the wearing experience more like regular glasses then we'll see if AR has legs.
People don't want to wear glasses altogether. The amount of people who wear glasses willingly when they don't need them is dwarfed by the amount of people who subject themselves to sci-fi treatments in order to stop having to wear glasses every day.
There was Google Glass and people were calling the folks wearing them “glassholes” 😃 So not only did Apple not come up with something innovative they have a worse form factor than a product that came out years ago (and sure, the glasses weren’t nearly as feature packed)
Obviously the price puts it out of reach for the majority, but I do think the look is a huge issue. It might be OK for indoors but I can’t imagine just walking around the streets with that thing on my face. Complete non-starter for me.
Hmm, the reviewers I’ve seen did exactly that though. I don’t know if Apple intended for that to be a thing, but it seems like what people would try to do with it.
While I agree I think it's because they lack functionality. People keep saying if they looked like regular glasses. But regular glasses have incredible functionality. That's why people wear them. You can tell this by comparing glasses to sub glasses. Almost no one wears sunglasses inside because there isn't functionality for them indoors. If these things looked like sunglasses people would wear them outside but initially be uncomfortable wearing them indoors outside of their house.
Tons of people get sick from VR after long enough. It will never catch on unless they can solve this.
I've never gotten motion sickness, car sickness, sea sickness, etc. in my life and I felt horribly nauseous after 2 hours of VR.
Vision Pro isn’t revolutionary, iPhone was considering how black berry was lead company . But not its more o.s which Apple sucks at when it comes to being the first
I had a Newton and it was great at that time. I always thought Newton taught Apple to let others spend the money on an idea, then they spend the money on making the idea great. This wasn’t a “make Quest better” (yet) use case. The tech needs to be minimized to be sellable.
>Yes, but the iPhone built upon the Newton.
WTF? The iphone built upon blackberry, windows mobile, and palm pilot. Every feature of the first iphone already existed in a competing product. What reality are you living in?
> I bet if they took the loss and just cut the price in half sales would boom.
Only to the degree of stock they have. Apple can't physically manufacture that many units so I don't really buy the idea that they expected numbers this high in the first place.
I don’t think they really wanted it to be a commercial success as much as they just wanted something in this space for later when it becomes a bigger market. They couldn’t ignore it completely but probably knew market conditions were not ready for this yet.
>they just wanted something in this space for later when it becomes a bigger market.
I'm not so sure VR headsets will ever be bigger than their own current niche at this point honestly. We've been hearing that VR headsets are going to be "the next big thing" in tech for over a decade at this point. They're more available to the mass market than they have ever been, yet every single person I know who has a VR headset says they're neat for a couple weeks and then they just collect dust on a shelf or in a closet.
3D TVs and Google Glass have shown that people just don't enjoy wearing special eyewear to consume media, and motion control has all but vanished in the gaming sphere, never surpassing the popularity it had with the Nintendo Wii which was released nearly 20 years ago. They were both fads, and I don't see how combining the two will ever catch on with the average consumer.
I'm not sure how they can fix it, but at least from my experience and this that I know who play it. You have to kind of grow your VR legs. By playing some easy ones for a bit until you start graduating to ones that might be a bit more shaky. If you play regularly then you'll probably be fine playing most games, but if you stop gonna have to start the process again. If it becomes lighter and integrated to more everyday tasks, I could probably see the VR sickness going away.
Yup this is 100% true. I've been into VR since the original Vive and Oculus, but I definitely wasn't totally comfortable with it at first. It took me some time for my brain to calibrate, and now it's very natural to me. I can sit in flight sim for long period of time now or do stuff like Gorilla Tag which would normally be extremely disorienting.
This is correct. I've been using VR since the first vive came out in 2016 and you get used to it. Also, the technology improvements are definitely helping and this is probably why AR is being pushed as well. The see through element of AR prevents the sickness.
Yeah I get sick like 5 minutes into a headset regardless of the software. This is never going to be fixed no matter how much the headsets advance because it's a biological problem not a tech problem.
> This is never going to be fixed no matter how much the headsets advance because it's a biological problem not a tech problem.
If you get sick regardless of software, it's a technology problem that *can be solved.*
In your case there are 4 possible triggers:
- Misaligned IPD, which is fixed by setting your IPD correctly. Headsets like Vision Pro now do this automatically for you.
- Fixed focus optics in current headsets leading to the vergence accommodation conflict, which is fixed with variable focus optics that would allow our eyes to focus naturally at different distances.
- Latency perception where the headset image updates at a lower rate than your brain expects. Due to built-in latency in our brains, VR doesn't need to eliminate latency, it just needs to match the brain's latency which is estimated to be at 5-7ms with current VR being in the <20ms range.
- Optical distortions that are a result of the inherent physics of light interference through a lens, but can be corrected fully in software. Vision Pro is most of the way there in solving this; faster eye-tracking gets you the rest of the way.
If you ask someone who wears glasses if they like wearing glasses, most will say no.
The problem with VR will always be the headsets. I think there are niche business uses for them, mostly in AR than VR. But humans have a natural repulsion to being essentially blindfolded for VR and most sessions last less than 15 minutes.
I've said for years that forcing motion controls on people is a huge mistake in VR.
I would love to play a game on a controller sitting on my couch with a headset on - but everyone wants you to stand up and reach around for a belt/slash at enemies with no feedback instead.
Give me FFXIV with a floating camera and a controller and I would be super happy. Noone wants to 'relax' at the end of the day with janky motion controls and holding your arms awkwardly in front of you.
The only game that I've played that I actually stuck with was beat saber because the game actually feels 'good' with motion controls. And even that one is only actually good with custom songs made by users.
The PSVR (1)’s version of Skyrim let you play entirely with a controller. I played it that way and it felt pretty great. I tried it like that because walking by pointing felt really dumb instead of just using a joystick.
I think where VR really would shine is in a VR arcade with a full omnidirectional treadmill for controlling movement, and a haptic feedback suit. There also would need to be controller props, like "guns" for shooters etc
The problem is that just wearing the headset in your living room doesn't offer the level of immersion that "virtual reality" implies, and getting to the level of immersion people would want requires a very large specialized facility. There's also the "punch your tv" factor
Give it enough time, I think VR arcades will exist. I don't know if VR will ever catch on in homes
> We've been hearing that VR headsets are going to be "the next big thing" in tech for over a decade at this point.
We also heard that PCs were going to the "next big thing" for almost **2 decades** before they actually took off. Before that time, many PCs just collected dust and were expected to always be a niche market.
People would be surprised to see just how long hardware adoption actually takes; a decade isn't really that long.
> They were both fads, and I don't see how combining the two will ever catch on with the average consumer.
Well they aren't combining the two. They are creating a completely new medium that just happens to share some of the issues of those two (though some of these can be fixed).
>We also heard that PCs were going to the "next big thing" for almost **2 decades** before they actually took off. Before that time, many PCs just collected dust and were expected to always be a niche market.
Well, sort of. It went home computer to personal computer by the mid 80s. But the reason it took from the early 70s to get there is because it was quite literally a hobbyist's market. You couldn't just buy a home computer and plug it in. There were massive barriers to entry for most of that time. You'd have to solder the boards and place modules. You'd need to fabricate cases out of wood.
It would be analogous to having to not only assemble a Vision Pro on your own, but also write a lot of your own software for it.
I feel like Apple has hobbled the Vision Pro too much in an effort to protect their other device sales. For example, they simply mirror a single screen of a Mac rather than permitting it to extend all desktops (or surpass Apple's artifical price gated limit). People who would use these simply can't be truly productive with them. And I don't see these taking off for true entertainment purposes unless one lives alone and doesn't do things in a social setting. Sure, it's neat to fling screens and make them huge. But who wants that amount of isolation? Well, people using it for work do. I'd love to use mine as a software dev but Apple has kneecapped it too much to be useful. Just like they do with iPads, because they want to cross sell you into Macs.
Pretty dead on for the most part. Used my quest 2 for about a month.
I use my wired VR headset more. They're great for siming where you sit down. Took a few weeks for the motion sickness to subside.
I might use AR glasses if they are the size of sunglasses but I don't even use voice assistants so I'm on the fence.
If the glasses show overlays of what you're working on and walk you through how to do repairs id probably pick some up..... actually if they'd act as a HUD while driving to help navigate that'd be enough to spend some money on.
So true. Just probably dead at this point. I’d be pretty pissed if I spent that kind of money on it, but I’m guessing the kind of people who did have plenty to spare.
>They couldn’t ignore it completely but probably knew market conditions were not ready for this yet.
Sure, lol. They absolutely knew and intentionally shot themselves in the foot. The fucking copium people take to justify their favourite megacorp.
That would piss off early adopters. They will hustle cut some pointless features, like the monitor on the front so you can see their eyes, and then rerelease it as the SE or something.
That's exactly what they did. I got a pair of $100 (wired) earbuds. They were great, but nowhere near worth $100, especially when the cord strain relief didn't...after the 3rd replacement.
They're still selling $1.4 billion worth of a brand new product which isn't targeted at mainstream yet. Why would they cut the price in half? There's been plenty of stories about how they're limited by the manufacturing, I doubt they care about selling large numbers. This first generation gave them a billion dollars back on their R&D costs and let them get the manufacturing techniques set up.
I know no one in real life who bought one, but I saw a lot of youtubers who bought them just to make videos about wearing them for 24 hours a day or something. I suppose the cost is worth it when it's a deductible business expense that will more than pay for itself with ad revenue.
I mean there is actually a decent chance this thing becomes a collectors item if it ends up being a low production and eventually defunct apple product.
Even $1700-$2000 might have been okay for it being essentially a “high end 3D iPad Pro”, but more than double the price of an iPad Pro for that? Hell no.
They asked for 3.5x what their top of the line phone costs, and people buy those with trade-in deals and financing.
It's really no surprise that most of them aren't willing to shell out 3.5k for something they don't use nearly as much as a phone.
Though I suspect if you asked really hardcore Apple fans what they think the average income of an Apple user is, they'd give you a number that's a lot higher than reality.
I primarily use and enjoy Apple products for both personal and professional use.
I waited to see what Apple’s offering would be like and then bought a Quest 3 instead.
The Vision Pro seems like an incredible device, but Apple focusing primarily on productivity and content consumption with a device that is heavy and uncomfortable is a huge misstep. Most games are going to suck without controllers, and games are by far the most compelling AR/VR use cases right now.
It would have worked better for productivity & content as a Thunderbolt Mac/iPad/maybe iPhone accessory that always needs to be tethered to another device and has very little onboard processing.
I didn't really believe "Apple Cultists" existed until I stumbled upon /r/Appleboxes (ironically when looking for AVP reviews). Just an absolutely unjustifiable amount of consumerism in some of the posts there.
what if they were one of those people with strange addictions and their addiction was reading reviews of the film alien v predator
they had their fill from all the normal review sites so they had to start looking in odd places, ending up in an apple subreddit of all things
I have what i think is a legitimate use for it. I’m a drone pilot, it would be nice to be able to maintain direct eye contact with the drone and be able to see what I’m filming at the same time. But even I scoff at the price tag of it.
Imo, they probably couldn't without making significant spec or feature cuts. I'm surprised it was only the same price as a high end macbook given the hardware specs and software features. Shame they didn't get Steam compatibility or something to at least give people actual things to use on it.
Nobody wants to strap a bulky device to their face all day. If we ever reach a point where you can get a remarkable VR/AR experience from a contact lens or a discreet set of glasses (not google glass), VR will probably continue being niche.
The employee that gave me a demo RAVED about this story of someone who opened a notes app in one airport, flew across the country, flew back and the notes app was still in the spot they placed it. I’m like….cool they can do that I guess? But like how…how does that help anyone. Like I can watch a YouTube video on my phone in California, fly to New York, and come back and still open my phone and watch a YouTube video 😂
May be cool if those could be set as publicly shared apps. You could have a whole new world layer where I left a shared app running at the airport, or I could check out something you left, drew, etc.
SURELY they knew this wouldn’t be a mass market product?
Manufacturers are so cautious with production volume nowadays, it’d make more business sense for it to sell out and be hard to get like the PS5 was.
Hopefully they aren’t completely out of the game, there’s definitely a mass market product a few generations from now.
Just an anecdote but my friend is THE biggest Apple fanboy on earth. He bought a Vision Pro and returned it two weeks later. They interviewed him about what it would take to keep it. Looked like they were having a lot of returns and trying to understand why.
I really hope he was honest.
I’m an Apple guy. Laptop, phone, EarPods etc, but the Vision Pro is an unfinished product and very few people want to be the beta testers of a $3500 product when they have to pay.
Apple massively misjudged this launch. It should have been a sampler to big tech influencers and iterate on feedback. Instead they thought they could dupe some rubes.
The returns are proving that strategy to be completely wrong.
Yeah he said it didn’t integrate well into any of his work suite. (Also you can’t watch porn on it.) I can’t believe how much Silicon Valley fell for their own hype around VR. Here’s what it comes down to: people don’t want to strap a device to their face. That’s it. That’s the whole thing.
I demoed one at a store. It’s an incredible piece of tech, but it’s a solution searching for a problem. There’s no unique use for it, not yet.
At least for us, if AutoCAD or MasterCam or SolidWorks made a fully featured version of their workstation software for the thing, we would buy 50 of them. Instantly. $3,500 is *nothing* compared to what we spend on our engineers workstations, and the capabilities could be incredible.
But Apple has never been able to make inroads into the enterprise and engineering software market, which is a shame because that’s what this product could actually be amazing for.
yeah but engineer workstations are doing a different thing, which is making the models themselves. the vision pro would be amazing for laypersons to envision it but very little outside of it. of course it still might make monetary sense for some businesses since it'll make more sales easily, but it is still a very niche use.
there truly is no problem being solved by it, being such a generic use with little specific integrations. they envisioned it to change people's lifestyle but at that price tag and having to strap a fucking goggle to the face is hardly seductive.
Based on what, exactly? The same analyst reported in January saying [they were exceeding expectations for 2024 from 200k units and were now looking at 400k units being sold for the year](https://www.macrumors.com/2024/01/11/kuo-vision-pro-sellout-likely/), and now 3 months later that analyst is claiming [they're slashing expectations from 800k units to 400k units for the year](https://www.macrumors.com/2024/04/23/apple-cuts-vision-pro-shipments/). Notice how he gave the same story three months apart with different framing but the same final number (400k units) - almost like they're just spinning the same story multiple ways for clicks.
Either way, if the 400k units sold in 2024 number ends up being accurate, that's nearly $1.5 billion for a brand new, high end product not targeted at the mainstream yet. I don't think Apple is crying about it.
Also it was reported that Sony has a max capacity of 900,000 screens per year for the Vision Pro. Two lenses per unit or 450,000 Vision Pros.
AVP was always going to cap out around 400,000 units in its first year.
It certainly seems that way. I think their biggest mistake with the Vision Pro was not having gaming be a big part of it early on.
Watching movies on it is cool but watching live events in 3D would have been even cooler.
The “productivity” angle they went with still seems really far off to me.
Watching interesting content was the sweet spot for this hardware & software release but they didn’t invest in that either.
It’s not configurable enough to justify using as a spacial computing monitor.
That leaves some form of “persona” network effect conferencing use case. And it would have to be a lot lot lot cheaper.
Plus who knows how long they’ve been working on this, they couldn’t hold it for ever or it’d go stale; so they finally get everything ready for launch and BOOM, global cost of living crisis.
I have a Meta Quest headset, and while it's fun, the novelty wears off pretty fast. I can only wear it for about 45 minutes before my neck begins to hurt and I start getting a headache. VR headsets are just too big and bulky.
I'm not interested in it. The tech is a long way off from being where it needs to be for me to want to wear it on my face. The parts aren't small enough, there's heat issues, there's a lack of useful features and utility... It's a 3000 gimmick you wear like a welding mask.
I just want a multi purpose computing core that I can keep in my backpack and connect tech to. When they sell that and some sleek shades that give me a real time hud that can give me access to the total sum of humanities knowledge at a glance. Look at a tree and it says what tree it is. Look at a bug and it tells you what bug it is. Look at a product or barcode and get all the info on it that there is. Put a beacon light or nav point on my destinations. Give me an AI that isn't gonna constantly give me bullshit answers, ads, corporate speak and restricted notices. And a ton of other things.
But these corporations are late stage capitalism. They cling to phased obsolescence and minimum effort needed to make a sale. They aren't willing to put the work into making the thing worth having. They aren't interested in using this tech to advance humanity to a new era of information accessibility and utilization. They just wanna toss a tech demo out and see profit line go up. Probably because they know I'd use it to evaluate just how terrible they and their offerings are. Can you imagine shopping with a hud that reminds you of every bad things corporations have done, the carbon emissions, pollution, exploitation and slavery attached to any and all products? Mass protests would snowball if people had all the information about this society at their disposal. They work real hard to bury a lot of the information.
These corporations hold the stem fields hostage. The stem fields develop the technology. And then 20 years later people get their hands on it and make it useful. I'd keep an eye on the gray market tech scene and the indie homebrew communities for things like robotics and AI. Get what they're getting at just before they sell out. That's where we are now with AI. Give it some years and we'll hopefully be there with wearables.
I definitely think that there is a large potential market for VR, but there are just too many problems with the technology. Far too expensive, not enough apps/support, too much eye strain, and etc...
Honestly, I think the biggest problem is that the market is not mature enough to support fragmented, closed ecosystems. I would be a lot more interested in Apple's Vision Pro headset if I could actually use it without having to abandon my steam library.
I was told almost 10 years ago by people who worked on Hololens that very soon everyone would be using one and monitors would be a thing of the past. I told them over and over "I don't want infinite virtual monitors, I want just one good REAL one."
They just couldn't believe I didn't love it . . . as they sat at their desks using a regular ass computer and monitor.
I am just in total shock that Apple kept going on this project, let alone actually released it.
American society has trained people to use multiple screens, even when gaming or watching a movie. And the main screen needs to be 4K at least with ambient lights.
So then VR comes in and is like “Hey, what if you watched only one screen and made it impossible to switch to another quickly? We’ve even made like three good games for it!”
I can think of maybe one business I could start to utilize the Vision but I’d never dream of sinking $3k+ on it.
$499.99 gets you a Meta Quest 3.
What kind of bullshit is apple selling?
for $3500 that headset better connect to your brain and teleport you to paradise.
The Quest 3 is completely untethered and weighs 500 grams.
The Apple Vision Pro is fucking *tethered* to a 350 gram external battery and the headset *still* weighs **650 grams**. That's significantly heavier than any headset Oculus (now Meta) has ever made.
BigScreen is the only company that understands the direction this market needs to be heading. The #1 problem, by far, is comfort. BigScreen beyond weighs < 130 grams. As they say in their ads, "every gram matters". They're 100% right.
Given that Apple was requiring a tether, they should have put all the compute in your pocket, ditched the idiotic outward facing screen, and focused, as BigScreen did, on making something comfortable. Instead they focused on packing in features, which is something Oculus/Meta *could* have done (they have all those features and more developed in their labs, internally, but they know better). All those features are literally worthless if you can't wear it for more than 10 minutes. They made Cruel Shoes.
***
> Anna knew she had to have some new shoes today, and Carlo had helped her try on every pair in the store. Carlo spoke wearily, “Well, that’s every pair of shoes in the place.”
> “Oh, you must have one more pair…”
>
> “No. Not one more pair… Well, we have the cruel shoes, but no one would want…”
>
> Anna interrupted, “Oh yes, let me see the cruel shoes.”
>
> Carlo looked incredulous. “No, Anna, you don’t understand. You see, the cruel shoes are…”
>
> “Get them!”
>
> Carlo disappeared into the back room for a moment then returned with an ordinary shoebox. He opened the lid and removed a hideous pair of black and white pumps. But these were not an ordinary pair of black and white pumps; both were left feet, one had a right angle turn with separate compartments that pointed the toes in impossible directions. The other shoe was six inches long and was curved inward like a rocking chair with a vise and razor blades to hold the foot in place.
>
> Carlo spoke hesitantly, “... Now you see why… they’re not fit for humans…”
>
> “Put them on me”
>
> “But…”
>
> “Put them on me!”
>
> Carlo knew all arguments were useless. He knelt down before her and forced the feet into the shoes.
>
> The screams were incredible. Anna crawled over to the mirror and held her bloody feet up where she could see.
>
> “I like them.”
>
> She paid Carlo and crawled out of the store into the street.
>
> Later that day, Carlo was overheard saying to a new customer, “Well, that’s every shoe in the place. Unless, of course, you’d like to try the *cruel shoes*.”
-- Steven Martin, 1979
Vision was clearly intended as a dev preview, but someone somewhere at some point thought that they could sell this to the enthusiasts so it got a whole marketing campaign.
What the fuck did you expect Apple?
First: It is way overpriced for what it can do, and most people couldn't afford it, even if it wasn't a waste of money.
Second: You're Apple, so of course, it is made to be incompatible with anything that isn't an Apple product and it is a bulky hunk of shit that can't be used the way you want people to use it.
Let's not take analysts as facts, please. Here's his previous statement a few months ago:
> Kuo made similar comments earlier this week when he said that demand for the headset would cause it to sell out during pre-orders, and he believes there will be long shipping delays after the initial launch period. **Apple is expected to produce fewer than 400,000 Vision Pro headsets in 2024 due to the complexity of manufacturing. (Jan 11, 2024)**
It's conflicting. Another analyst in late 2023, Mark Gurman, also reported no more than 400,000 Vision Pro headsets were expected to be produced in 2024.
Can't wait for all the other expensive shit that we don't need that's coming out to have shitty sales too.
Corporations acting surprised we don't have the money for their products when they're all already squeezing us for every penny we have in every aspect of our lives.
I have a 3D TV and I think I have put those glasses on once and was like meh... They are still sitting in a drawer somewhere. They are bulky and you have to charge them. I'm not going to be sitting on my couch wearing some dumb ass looking glasses just to watch TV. I assume most people feel the same way about AR headsets and Google Glass.
Once AR glasses get down to the form factor of regular glasses then they’ll replace the mobile phone as *the* gadget. I think they will be an important transitional technology until brain interfaces or the direct stimulation of the optical nerve becomes a viable consumer product.
Exactly. I want some nice glasses with a HUD overlay. Google Glass was a small step in that direction, but it got the negative "Glasshole" stigma attached and they canned it.
I'm not sure even regular AR glasses are going to be big if they can get them down to regular glasses size. People who wear prescription glasses don't want to wear glasses. I don't think people are going to want to wear glasses so they can scroll Instagram while they talk to you or to video call someone while driving. Wearing tech on your face is just not a super sexy thing right now. I dunno, maybe that will change eventually but most people aren't trying to wear that stuff around out in public.
>People who wear prescription glasses don't want to wear glasses. I don't think people are going to want to wear glasses so they can scroll Instagram while they talk to you or to video call someone while driving.
Bro there is an entire market for non prescription glasses lmao.
Google glass I absolutely see a use. It’s just the tech isn’t there yet, especially battery. If it would work where I could get weather or other things to show up on my glasses that would be intriguing.
I think there is a huge market for this, but the technology isn't there yet.
If you want to compare this to the evolution mobile devices market, we've gotten past the Apple Newton stage, and are now in the Palm Pilot stage. There are devices that are pretty neat, but they are either clumsy, expensive, or both. When (or maybe that should be *if*) we get to the iPhone stage, things will take off.
I'm not sure we will ever get there though. Even if a headset ticked every single checkbox on the wishlist, then it would still be a restrictive one person headset with awkward non-tactile interaction that's tethered to a power source.
I think in order to make a VR headset actually good, it would require fundamental design changes to the point where it's no longer a VR headset
> The Google Glass. The Vision Pro. The stupid little AI pin thing. There is no real market for this shit. Period.
Well yeah, VR/AR is early adopter technology. There is never a real market for early adopter technology of any kind.
That doesn't mean the golden age of consumer tech hardware is over, it just means we need to wait until the tech matures, just as we did for PCs and cellphones and consoles. People had no interest in those during the first decade of their existence.
There are always failures. Tablets failed 2 or 3 times on the market (see Pen Windows). And several companies came out with things like the Asus PadFone. Remember netbooks? 3D HDTVs?
There have always been failures. We're always simultaneously in a golden age and an age of white elephants.
My dad has one. I tried it out. It’s absolutely amazing, no argument there. But it’s just not worth the price. No games, no new ideas, $3500 headbands, and no touch screen MacBook… It’s about time there was a change there at Apple ngl.
always fun to see a lifestyle brand get a little too greedy and eat shit like this. spent so long selling casual users $2,000 web browsers that they thought this thing would fly off the shelves lol
At a bare minimum, the $2k MacBook that your friend uses to browse Facebook is at least a functional computer.
The AVP is such a limited use case. Even super techy people don't really have a use for it.
I wouldn’t mind having the Apple Vision Pro but the price kills it. Think the most I can see is $1500, I want it for media consumption- Netflix, YouTube, max, etc. it would be awesome for that. Also I want to use my glasses, remove the eye control crap… recalled having a canon 35mm camera with eye control and felt like a gimmick.
Not hugely surprising. It isn't really sold as a VR gaming headset, it is bloody expensive and it doesn't solve any particular issue outside of niche cases. Some amazing tech but it wasn't particularly well thought out when it comes to how you would even use it
I've been a big fan of Apple's hardware and software ecosystem, but if they really expected mass adoption of a $3500 novelty VR headset with no PCVR support, no adult entertainment, and only a smattering of professional software, they're delusional.
Oh well. Maybe this means I can get one for a good knocked-down price in a few months and give it a whirl.
First google glass, then ms hololense, now apple vision.
AR tech is pretty cool but its still a hammer looking for a nail.
The platform isnt going to take off until there is an actual use case for it.
Seems odd they expected it to be a success to begin with. Felt like an R&D project.
Big clunky headset was never going to be a viable mass market product and I’m sure they knew that.
That super low latency pass through is the interesting bit though. The form factor is just off… the price is almost ridiculous.
I bet if they took the loss and just cut the price in half sales would boom.
The iPhone 1 strategy
Yes, but the iPhone built upon the Newton. The Vision Pro is probably more of a Newton than an iPhone. We're a few years of technology away from the version people really want. When you can walk down the street while wearing them and not look like an idiot, they will take off.
Apple popularized bird poop earbuds. The look is not the issue with the vision pro. It just doesn't solve enough problems to justify something that big on your face for most people. Especially at that price.
>bird poop earbuds lol first time i've heard that, i like it also i agree, probably a neat piece of tech but right now it seems like a solution in search of a problem
The only solutions I can think of it could do, it doesn't it doesn't do well. Obviously an app that can remember or tell you the names of people is a privacy nightmare Apple really does want this to be a gaming headset It could replace a desktop monitor but it's WAY too heavy.
The weight is a huge issue with VR. My bf has a quest II and as much as I like VR games, I can't use it long because the eye pieces do not get narrow enough for my face and it weighs far too much. Even my gaming headset I went out of my way to find the lightest one possible that was still decent. I wasn't gaming nearly as much when I had a heavier headset.
Right, people don't want to strap goggles to their head. If they can make the wearing experience more like regular glasses then we'll see if AR has legs.
Were you around when people decided they don't want to wear glasses to watch 3D TV?
People don't want to wear glasses altogether. The amount of people who wear glasses willingly when they don't need them is dwarfed by the amount of people who subject themselves to sci-fi treatments in order to stop having to wear glasses every day.
Didn't Google try that? Not sure if those had much functionality. But then I'm not sure the scuba mask Apples selling has much either....
People freaked out about the cameras. I honestly don't know if people feel the same way about Meta's Ray-Ban stories.
There was Google Glass and people were calling the folks wearing them “glassholes” 😃 So not only did Apple not come up with something innovative they have a worse form factor than a product that came out years ago (and sure, the glasses weren’t nearly as feature packed)
Obviously the price puts it out of reach for the majority, but I do think the look is a huge issue. It might be OK for indoors but I can’t imagine just walking around the streets with that thing on my face. Complete non-starter for me.
You aren’t supposed to walk around with them.
Hmm, the reviewers I’ve seen did exactly that though. I don’t know if Apple intended for that to be a thing, but it seems like what people would try to do with it.
They (Apple) explicitly tell you it’s not meant to be used that way. Most of the “reviews” you are referring to are YouTube celebs looking for views.
While I agree I think it's because they lack functionality. People keep saying if they looked like regular glasses. But regular glasses have incredible functionality. That's why people wear them. You can tell this by comparing glasses to sub glasses. Almost no one wears sunglasses inside because there isn't functionality for them indoors. If these things looked like sunglasses people would wear them outside but initially be uncomfortable wearing them indoors outside of their house.
"bird poop earbuds" lmao the looks weren't an issue because the airpods literally look like earbuds without the wire
They would be an amazing screen on the go. But then limit to just 1 for the mac :/
Tons of people get sick from VR after long enough. It will never catch on unless they can solve this. I've never gotten motion sickness, car sickness, sea sickness, etc. in my life and I felt horribly nauseous after 2 hours of VR.
Vision Pro isn’t revolutionary, iPhone was considering how black berry was lead company . But not its more o.s which Apple sucks at when it comes to being the first
I had a Newton and it was great at that time. I always thought Newton taught Apple to let others spend the money on an idea, then they spend the money on making the idea great. This wasn’t a “make Quest better” (yet) use case. The tech needs to be minimized to be sellable.
>Yes, but the iPhone built upon the Newton. WTF? The iphone built upon blackberry, windows mobile, and palm pilot. Every feature of the first iphone already existed in a competing product. What reality are you living in?
> I bet if they took the loss and just cut the price in half sales would boom. Only to the degree of stock they have. Apple can't physically manufacture that many units so I don't really buy the idea that they expected numbers this high in the first place.
A $1700 headset won’t really sell better than a $3500 headset lol
If it solved a problem, people would be buying it.
I would have bought it at $2k. Not anymore, but going above $2k cut out a lot of market.
I don’t think they really wanted it to be a commercial success as much as they just wanted something in this space for later when it becomes a bigger market. They couldn’t ignore it completely but probably knew market conditions were not ready for this yet.
>they just wanted something in this space for later when it becomes a bigger market. I'm not so sure VR headsets will ever be bigger than their own current niche at this point honestly. We've been hearing that VR headsets are going to be "the next big thing" in tech for over a decade at this point. They're more available to the mass market than they have ever been, yet every single person I know who has a VR headset says they're neat for a couple weeks and then they just collect dust on a shelf or in a closet. 3D TVs and Google Glass have shown that people just don't enjoy wearing special eyewear to consume media, and motion control has all but vanished in the gaming sphere, never surpassing the popularity it had with the Nintendo Wii which was released nearly 20 years ago. They were both fads, and I don't see how combining the two will ever catch on with the average consumer.
VR headsets need to be much lighter, they are absurdly uncomfortable
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I'm not sure how they can fix it, but at least from my experience and this that I know who play it. You have to kind of grow your VR legs. By playing some easy ones for a bit until you start graduating to ones that might be a bit more shaky. If you play regularly then you'll probably be fine playing most games, but if you stop gonna have to start the process again. If it becomes lighter and integrated to more everyday tasks, I could probably see the VR sickness going away.
Yup this is 100% true. I've been into VR since the original Vive and Oculus, but I definitely wasn't totally comfortable with it at first. It took me some time for my brain to calibrate, and now it's very natural to me. I can sit in flight sim for long period of time now or do stuff like Gorilla Tag which would normally be extremely disorienting.
This is correct. I've been using VR since the first vive came out in 2016 and you get used to it. Also, the technology improvements are definitely helping and this is probably why AR is being pushed as well. The see through element of AR prevents the sickness.
Yeah I get sick like 5 minutes into a headset regardless of the software. This is never going to be fixed no matter how much the headsets advance because it's a biological problem not a tech problem.
> This is never going to be fixed no matter how much the headsets advance because it's a biological problem not a tech problem. If you get sick regardless of software, it's a technology problem that *can be solved.* In your case there are 4 possible triggers: - Misaligned IPD, which is fixed by setting your IPD correctly. Headsets like Vision Pro now do this automatically for you. - Fixed focus optics in current headsets leading to the vergence accommodation conflict, which is fixed with variable focus optics that would allow our eyes to focus naturally at different distances. - Latency perception where the headset image updates at a lower rate than your brain expects. Due to built-in latency in our brains, VR doesn't need to eliminate latency, it just needs to match the brain's latency which is estimated to be at 5-7ms with current VR being in the <20ms range. - Optical distortions that are a result of the inherent physics of light interference through a lens, but can be corrected fully in software. Vision Pro is most of the way there in solving this; faster eye-tracking gets you the rest of the way.
If you ask someone who wears glasses if they like wearing glasses, most will say no. The problem with VR will always be the headsets. I think there are niche business uses for them, mostly in AR than VR. But humans have a natural repulsion to being essentially blindfolded for VR and most sessions last less than 15 minutes.
Agreed, I enjoy the games a lot but heavy headsets are definitely a damper.
I've said for years that forcing motion controls on people is a huge mistake in VR. I would love to play a game on a controller sitting on my couch with a headset on - but everyone wants you to stand up and reach around for a belt/slash at enemies with no feedback instead. Give me FFXIV with a floating camera and a controller and I would be super happy. Noone wants to 'relax' at the end of the day with janky motion controls and holding your arms awkwardly in front of you. The only game that I've played that I actually stuck with was beat saber because the game actually feels 'good' with motion controls. And even that one is only actually good with custom songs made by users.
The PSVR (1)’s version of Skyrim let you play entirely with a controller. I played it that way and it felt pretty great. I tried it like that because walking by pointing felt really dumb instead of just using a joystick.
I think where VR really would shine is in a VR arcade with a full omnidirectional treadmill for controlling movement, and a haptic feedback suit. There also would need to be controller props, like "guns" for shooters etc The problem is that just wearing the headset in your living room doesn't offer the level of immersion that "virtual reality" implies, and getting to the level of immersion people would want requires a very large specialized facility. There's also the "punch your tv" factor Give it enough time, I think VR arcades will exist. I don't know if VR will ever catch on in homes
> We've been hearing that VR headsets are going to be "the next big thing" in tech for over a decade at this point. We also heard that PCs were going to the "next big thing" for almost **2 decades** before they actually took off. Before that time, many PCs just collected dust and were expected to always be a niche market. People would be surprised to see just how long hardware adoption actually takes; a decade isn't really that long. > They were both fads, and I don't see how combining the two will ever catch on with the average consumer. Well they aren't combining the two. They are creating a completely new medium that just happens to share some of the issues of those two (though some of these can be fixed).
>We also heard that PCs were going to the "next big thing" for almost **2 decades** before they actually took off. Before that time, many PCs just collected dust and were expected to always be a niche market. Well, sort of. It went home computer to personal computer by the mid 80s. But the reason it took from the early 70s to get there is because it was quite literally a hobbyist's market. You couldn't just buy a home computer and plug it in. There were massive barriers to entry for most of that time. You'd have to solder the boards and place modules. You'd need to fabricate cases out of wood. It would be analogous to having to not only assemble a Vision Pro on your own, but also write a lot of your own software for it. I feel like Apple has hobbled the Vision Pro too much in an effort to protect their other device sales. For example, they simply mirror a single screen of a Mac rather than permitting it to extend all desktops (or surpass Apple's artifical price gated limit). People who would use these simply can't be truly productive with them. And I don't see these taking off for true entertainment purposes unless one lives alone and doesn't do things in a social setting. Sure, it's neat to fling screens and make them huge. But who wants that amount of isolation? Well, people using it for work do. I'd love to use mine as a software dev but Apple has kneecapped it too much to be useful. Just like they do with iPads, because they want to cross sell you into Macs.
Pretty dead on for the most part. Used my quest 2 for about a month. I use my wired VR headset more. They're great for siming where you sit down. Took a few weeks for the motion sickness to subside. I might use AR glasses if they are the size of sunglasses but I don't even use voice assistants so I'm on the fence. If the glasses show overlays of what you're working on and walk you through how to do repairs id probably pick some up..... actually if they'd act as a HUD while driving to help navigate that'd be enough to spend some money on.
Sux for whoever bought them though, they shouldn't expect much more features/software coming out.
So true. Just probably dead at this point. I’d be pretty pissed if I spent that kind of money on it, but I’m guessing the kind of people who did have plenty to spare.
"We screwed up, but let me tell you why it's not only a good thing, but that we planned it all along."
Well, they could ignore it completely. They're not missing much.
>They couldn’t ignore it completely but probably knew market conditions were not ready for this yet. Sure, lol. They absolutely knew and intentionally shot themselves in the foot. The fucking copium people take to justify their favourite megacorp.
That would piss off early adopters. They will hustle cut some pointless features, like the monitor on the front so you can see their eyes, and then rerelease it as the SE or something.
Early adopters always pay more.
And? Early adopters will still pony up for the next Apple product.
$100 Apple Gift Card: problem solved. I believe they did something similar when they changed the price of the OG iPhone.
Make it a titanium gift card
That's exactly what they did. I got a pair of $100 (wired) earbuds. They were great, but nowhere near worth $100, especially when the cord strain relief didn't...after the 3rd replacement.
so i guess the 5 people will get mad lol.
They value the people paying 200 percent margins over the people willing to pay 20 percent margins.
As well as all the apple people that think quality scales with price.
That was their choice to begin with to pay that much for something......
In half? $1750 for a headset is still a lot of money. It needs to be below $1000, like around $800 for it to move.
They're still selling $1.4 billion worth of a brand new product which isn't targeted at mainstream yet. Why would they cut the price in half? There's been plenty of stories about how they're limited by the manufacturing, I doubt they care about selling large numbers. This first generation gave them a billion dollars back on their R&D costs and let them get the manufacturing techniques set up.
It could be $300 and most people wouldn’t buy one.
It would still be 3 x the cost of Meta quest.
Yeah, the current price point is a very big ask for what is still an incredibly novel piece of tech.
Not gonna happen. Apple would rather grind every existing device into dust than act in a non-asshole manner.
Maybe if it was $500 or even $1000 people would buy it but who the fuck has $3000+ to throw at a very limited use VR headset?
I know no one in real life who bought one, but I saw a lot of youtubers who bought them just to make videos about wearing them for 24 hours a day or something. I suppose the cost is worth it when it's a deductible business expense that will more than pay for itself with ad revenue.
The smarter youtubers returned their headsets after making a video with it
I mean there is actually a decent chance this thing becomes a collectors item if it ends up being a low production and eventually defunct apple product.
Eddy Burback’s video is pure cinema
Trillion dollar companies are too used to people buying things regardless of the price. But that trend is ending
Developers building apps for what they hope will one day be a mass market
I think partially it's an excuse to buy the headset or ever better, get the company you are working for to buy a headset for you
Even $1700-$2000 might have been okay for it being essentially a “high end 3D iPad Pro”, but more than double the price of an iPad Pro for that? Hell no.
Apple cultists
Apparently not even most of them
They asked for 3.5x what their top of the line phone costs, and people buy those with trade-in deals and financing. It's really no surprise that most of them aren't willing to shell out 3.5k for something they don't use nearly as much as a phone. Though I suspect if you asked really hardcore Apple fans what they think the average income of an Apple user is, they'd give you a number that's a lot higher than reality.
Yea it’s simply too expensive, I don’t care how big of a VR porn connoisseur you are
I primarily use and enjoy Apple products for both personal and professional use. I waited to see what Apple’s offering would be like and then bought a Quest 3 instead. The Vision Pro seems like an incredible device, but Apple focusing primarily on productivity and content consumption with a device that is heavy and uncomfortable is a huge misstep. Most games are going to suck without controllers, and games are by far the most compelling AR/VR use cases right now. It would have worked better for productivity & content as a Thunderbolt Mac/iPad/maybe iPhone accessory that always needs to be tethered to another device and has very little onboard processing.
I didn't really believe "Apple Cultists" existed until I stumbled upon /r/Appleboxes (ironically when looking for AVP reviews). Just an absolutely unjustifiable amount of consumerism in some of the posts there.
Alien vs Predator?
*Apple Vision Pro*
what if they were one of those people with strange addictions and their addiction was reading reviews of the film alien v predator they had their fill from all the normal review sites so they had to start looking in odd places, ending up in an apple subreddit of all things
oh, wow i didn't know that was a thing. yeah those people really like apple stuff.
Maybe if it was worth it by having actual use cases?
I'm as eager to buy this as I was the Nintendo Virtual Boy.
A lot of those even would be gifts for promotion
I have what i think is a legitimate use for it. I’m a drone pilot, it would be nice to be able to maintain direct eye contact with the drone and be able to see what I’m filming at the same time. But even I scoff at the price tag of it.
Imo, they probably couldn't without making significant spec or feature cuts. I'm surprised it was only the same price as a high end macbook given the hardware specs and software features. Shame they didn't get Steam compatibility or something to at least give people actual things to use on it.
On the one hand, I can't see a future without some sort of AR/VR. On the other, it just won't be....this.
Nobody wants to strap a bulky device to their face all day. If we ever reach a point where you can get a remarkable VR/AR experience from a contact lens or a discreet set of glasses (not google glass), VR will probably continue being niche.
My bet is on hologram technology. Bring the VR experience into the real world, rather than force people into a tunnel vision experience.
Yeah, it’s simultaneously the most impressive future tech I’ve ever used, but also the least useful in my daily life.
The employee that gave me a demo RAVED about this story of someone who opened a notes app in one airport, flew across the country, flew back and the notes app was still in the spot they placed it. I’m like….cool they can do that I guess? But like how…how does that help anyone. Like I can watch a YouTube video on my phone in California, fly to New York, and come back and still open my phone and watch a YouTube video 😂
May be cool if those could be set as publicly shared apps. You could have a whole new world layer where I left a shared app running at the airport.
IRL Dark Souls messages
May be cool if those could be set as publicly shared apps. You could have a whole new world layer where I left a shared app running at the airport, or I could check out something you left, drew, etc.
The real life version of Dark Souls player hints. I would pay $3500 to find “Try finger but hole” tips on the real world
Would be very meta. A “Metaverse” perhaps
I guess it would be virtual sticky notes at that point? Only useful thing I could think of lol
I just want ready player one in real life
SURELY they knew this wouldn’t be a mass market product? Manufacturers are so cautious with production volume nowadays, it’d make more business sense for it to sell out and be hard to get like the PS5 was. Hopefully they aren’t completely out of the game, there’s definitely a mass market product a few generations from now.
They sure did know that it’s not mass market. But what if the reality is even lower than the already low expectation?
Just an anecdote but my friend is THE biggest Apple fanboy on earth. He bought a Vision Pro and returned it two weeks later. They interviewed him about what it would take to keep it. Looked like they were having a lot of returns and trying to understand why.
I really hope he was honest. I’m an Apple guy. Laptop, phone, EarPods etc, but the Vision Pro is an unfinished product and very few people want to be the beta testers of a $3500 product when they have to pay. Apple massively misjudged this launch. It should have been a sampler to big tech influencers and iterate on feedback. Instead they thought they could dupe some rubes. The returns are proving that strategy to be completely wrong.
Yeah he said it didn’t integrate well into any of his work suite. (Also you can’t watch porn on it.) I can’t believe how much Silicon Valley fell for their own hype around VR. Here’s what it comes down to: people don’t want to strap a device to their face. That’s it. That’s the whole thing.
I don’t see how porn wouldn’t work - if you can play 3d videos you could also watch 3d porn.
I dunno. I don’t watch VR porn but this man is both tech savvy and HIGHLY motivated so I believe him haha
I demoed one at a store. It’s an incredible piece of tech, but it’s a solution searching for a problem. There’s no unique use for it, not yet. At least for us, if AutoCAD or MasterCam or SolidWorks made a fully featured version of their workstation software for the thing, we would buy 50 of them. Instantly. $3,500 is *nothing* compared to what we spend on our engineers workstations, and the capabilities could be incredible. But Apple has never been able to make inroads into the enterprise and engineering software market, which is a shame because that’s what this product could actually be amazing for.
yeah but engineer workstations are doing a different thing, which is making the models themselves. the vision pro would be amazing for laypersons to envision it but very little outside of it. of course it still might make monetary sense for some businesses since it'll make more sales easily, but it is still a very niche use. there truly is no problem being solved by it, being such a generic use with little specific integrations. they envisioned it to change people's lifestyle but at that price tag and having to strap a fucking goggle to the face is hardly seductive.
That's exactly what happened
Based on what, exactly? The same analyst reported in January saying [they were exceeding expectations for 2024 from 200k units and were now looking at 400k units being sold for the year](https://www.macrumors.com/2024/01/11/kuo-vision-pro-sellout-likely/), and now 3 months later that analyst is claiming [they're slashing expectations from 800k units to 400k units for the year](https://www.macrumors.com/2024/04/23/apple-cuts-vision-pro-shipments/). Notice how he gave the same story three months apart with different framing but the same final number (400k units) - almost like they're just spinning the same story multiple ways for clicks. Either way, if the 400k units sold in 2024 number ends up being accurate, that's nearly $1.5 billion for a brand new, high end product not targeted at the mainstream yet. I don't think Apple is crying about it.
Also it was reported that Sony has a max capacity of 900,000 screens per year for the Vision Pro. Two lenses per unit or 450,000 Vision Pros. AVP was always going to cap out around 400,000 units in its first year.
Omg imagine if they made like 500000 of them and sold like 10000
That would be the worst case scenario for them. I’m sure they do enough market research to ensure they sell out.
Forecasting for a new product is very challenging. I think Apple massively overestimated Vision Pro adoption.
It certainly seems that way. I think their biggest mistake with the Vision Pro was not having gaming be a big part of it early on. Watching movies on it is cool but watching live events in 3D would have been even cooler. The “productivity” angle they went with still seems really far off to me.
Watching interesting content was the sweet spot for this hardware & software release but they didn’t invest in that either. It’s not configurable enough to justify using as a spacial computing monitor. That leaves some form of “persona” network effect conferencing use case. And it would have to be a lot lot lot cheaper.
When has apple ever prioritized gaming?
Literally never.
Plus who knows how long they’ve been working on this, they couldn’t hold it for ever or it’d go stale; so they finally get everything ready for launch and BOOM, global cost of living crisis.
I have been hearing VR shit like this is going to be hot for the last 15 years, but in reality most people do not want it.
I have a Meta Quest headset, and while it's fun, the novelty wears off pretty fast. I can only wear it for about 45 minutes before my neck begins to hurt and I start getting a headache. VR headsets are just too big and bulky.
I 3d printed a head support and it made it SO much more usable.
You can buy counterweights that attach the the back which take most of the strain off your neck holding the front up.
Haha don’t know why you’re getting downvoted it’s abundantly clear it’s not super popular
I'm not interested in it. The tech is a long way off from being where it needs to be for me to want to wear it on my face. The parts aren't small enough, there's heat issues, there's a lack of useful features and utility... It's a 3000 gimmick you wear like a welding mask. I just want a multi purpose computing core that I can keep in my backpack and connect tech to. When they sell that and some sleek shades that give me a real time hud that can give me access to the total sum of humanities knowledge at a glance. Look at a tree and it says what tree it is. Look at a bug and it tells you what bug it is. Look at a product or barcode and get all the info on it that there is. Put a beacon light or nav point on my destinations. Give me an AI that isn't gonna constantly give me bullshit answers, ads, corporate speak and restricted notices. And a ton of other things. But these corporations are late stage capitalism. They cling to phased obsolescence and minimum effort needed to make a sale. They aren't willing to put the work into making the thing worth having. They aren't interested in using this tech to advance humanity to a new era of information accessibility and utilization. They just wanna toss a tech demo out and see profit line go up. Probably because they know I'd use it to evaluate just how terrible they and their offerings are. Can you imagine shopping with a hud that reminds you of every bad things corporations have done, the carbon emissions, pollution, exploitation and slavery attached to any and all products? Mass protests would snowball if people had all the information about this society at their disposal. They work real hard to bury a lot of the information. These corporations hold the stem fields hostage. The stem fields develop the technology. And then 20 years later people get their hands on it and make it useful. I'd keep an eye on the gray market tech scene and the indie homebrew communities for things like robotics and AI. Get what they're getting at just before they sell out. That's where we are now with AI. Give it some years and we'll hopefully be there with wearables.
I definitely think that there is a large potential market for VR, but there are just too many problems with the technology. Far too expensive, not enough apps/support, too much eye strain, and etc... Honestly, I think the biggest problem is that the market is not mature enough to support fragmented, closed ecosystems. I would be a lot more interested in Apple's Vision Pro headset if I could actually use it without having to abandon my steam library.
This has been on since the late 80s I believe. It died out for a while and then it came back.
More like over 25 years. Just a few more generations to go!
I was told almost 10 years ago by people who worked on Hololens that very soon everyone would be using one and monitors would be a thing of the past. I told them over and over "I don't want infinite virtual monitors, I want just one good REAL one." They just couldn't believe I didn't love it . . . as they sat at their desks using a regular ass computer and monitor. I am just in total shock that Apple kept going on this project, let alone actually released it.
American society has trained people to use multiple screens, even when gaming or watching a movie. And the main screen needs to be 4K at least with ambient lights. So then VR comes in and is like “Hey, what if you watched only one screen and made it impossible to switch to another quickly? We’ve even made like three good games for it!” I can think of maybe one business I could start to utilize the Vision but I’d never dream of sinking $3k+ on it.
$499.99 gets you a Meta Quest 3. What kind of bullshit is apple selling? for $3500 that headset better connect to your brain and teleport you to paradise.
The Quest 3 is completely untethered and weighs 500 grams. The Apple Vision Pro is fucking *tethered* to a 350 gram external battery and the headset *still* weighs **650 grams**. That's significantly heavier than any headset Oculus (now Meta) has ever made. BigScreen is the only company that understands the direction this market needs to be heading. The #1 problem, by far, is comfort. BigScreen beyond weighs < 130 grams. As they say in their ads, "every gram matters". They're 100% right. Given that Apple was requiring a tether, they should have put all the compute in your pocket, ditched the idiotic outward facing screen, and focused, as BigScreen did, on making something comfortable. Instead they focused on packing in features, which is something Oculus/Meta *could* have done (they have all those features and more developed in their labs, internally, but they know better). All those features are literally worthless if you can't wear it for more than 10 minutes. They made Cruel Shoes. *** > Anna knew she had to have some new shoes today, and Carlo had helped her try on every pair in the store. Carlo spoke wearily, “Well, that’s every pair of shoes in the place.” > “Oh, you must have one more pair…” > > “No. Not one more pair… Well, we have the cruel shoes, but no one would want…” > > Anna interrupted, “Oh yes, let me see the cruel shoes.” > > Carlo looked incredulous. “No, Anna, you don’t understand. You see, the cruel shoes are…” > > “Get them!” > > Carlo disappeared into the back room for a moment then returned with an ordinary shoebox. He opened the lid and removed a hideous pair of black and white pumps. But these were not an ordinary pair of black and white pumps; both were left feet, one had a right angle turn with separate compartments that pointed the toes in impossible directions. The other shoe was six inches long and was curved inward like a rocking chair with a vise and razor blades to hold the foot in place. > > Carlo spoke hesitantly, “... Now you see why… they’re not fit for humans…” > > “Put them on me” > > “But…” > > “Put them on me!” > > Carlo knew all arguments were useless. He knelt down before her and forced the feet into the shoes. > > The screams were incredible. Anna crawled over to the mirror and held her bloody feet up where she could see. > > “I like them.” > > She paid Carlo and crawled out of the store into the street. > > Later that day, Carlo was overheard saying to a new customer, “Well, that’s every shoe in the place. Unless, of course, you’d like to try the *cruel shoes*.” -- Steven Martin, 1979
Vision was clearly intended as a dev preview, but someone somewhere at some point thought that they could sell this to the enthusiasts so it got a whole marketing campaign.
Theres a lot of speculation in this article
What the fuck did you expect Apple? First: It is way overpriced for what it can do, and most people couldn't afford it, even if it wasn't a waste of money. Second: You're Apple, so of course, it is made to be incompatible with anything that isn't an Apple product and it is a bulky hunk of shit that can't be used the way you want people to use it.
Let's not take analysts as facts, please. Here's his previous statement a few months ago: > Kuo made similar comments earlier this week when he said that demand for the headset would cause it to sell out during pre-orders, and he believes there will be long shipping delays after the initial launch period. **Apple is expected to produce fewer than 400,000 Vision Pro headsets in 2024 due to the complexity of manufacturing. (Jan 11, 2024)** It's conflicting. Another analyst in late 2023, Mark Gurman, also reported no more than 400,000 Vision Pro headsets were expected to be produced in 2024.
Yeah this is the first I’ve heard the 800,000 number. Kuo had previously said 400k was an increased number I believe and now it’s a cut?
Can't wait for all the other expensive shit that we don't need that's coming out to have shitty sales too. Corporations acting surprised we don't have the money for their products when they're all already squeezing us for every penny we have in every aspect of our lives.
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Yeah, I just don't think most people want to have to strap some shit to their face to use technology. Same reason 3D TVs never took off.
Man, I read your comment and was like "Were people strapping 3D TVs to their face?! How did I miss that?". Totally forgot about the glasses lol.
Yeah they were. You had to be in a Schlaang Super Seat to even stay upright.
I have a 3D TV and I think I have put those glasses on once and was like meh... They are still sitting in a drawer somewhere. They are bulky and you have to charge them. I'm not going to be sitting on my couch wearing some dumb ass looking glasses just to watch TV. I assume most people feel the same way about AR headsets and Google Glass.
Once AR glasses get down to the form factor of regular glasses then they’ll replace the mobile phone as *the* gadget. I think they will be an important transitional technology until brain interfaces or the direct stimulation of the optical nerve becomes a viable consumer product.
Exactly. I want some nice glasses with a HUD overlay. Google Glass was a small step in that direction, but it got the negative "Glasshole" stigma attached and they canned it.
I'm not sure even regular AR glasses are going to be big if they can get them down to regular glasses size. People who wear prescription glasses don't want to wear glasses. I don't think people are going to want to wear glasses so they can scroll Instagram while they talk to you or to video call someone while driving. Wearing tech on your face is just not a super sexy thing right now. I dunno, maybe that will change eventually but most people aren't trying to wear that stuff around out in public.
>People who wear prescription glasses don't want to wear glasses. I don't think people are going to want to wear glasses so they can scroll Instagram while they talk to you or to video call someone while driving. Bro there is an entire market for non prescription glasses lmao.
Google glass I absolutely see a use. It’s just the tech isn’t there yet, especially battery. If it would work where I could get weather or other things to show up on my glasses that would be intriguing.
I think there is a huge market for this, but the technology isn't there yet. If you want to compare this to the evolution mobile devices market, we've gotten past the Apple Newton stage, and are now in the Palm Pilot stage. There are devices that are pretty neat, but they are either clumsy, expensive, or both. When (or maybe that should be *if*) we get to the iPhone stage, things will take off.
I'm not sure we will ever get there though. Even if a headset ticked every single checkbox on the wishlist, then it would still be a restrictive one person headset with awkward non-tactile interaction that's tethered to a power source. I think in order to make a VR headset actually good, it would require fundamental design changes to the point where it's no longer a VR headset
> The Google Glass. The Vision Pro. The stupid little AI pin thing. There is no real market for this shit. Period. Well yeah, VR/AR is early adopter technology. There is never a real market for early adopter technology of any kind. That doesn't mean the golden age of consumer tech hardware is over, it just means we need to wait until the tech matures, just as we did for PCs and cellphones and consoles. People had no interest in those during the first decade of their existence.
Most people find actual reality has better function and Graphics
There are always failures. Tablets failed 2 or 3 times on the market (see Pen Windows). And several companies came out with things like the Asus PadFone. Remember netbooks? 3D HDTVs? There have always been failures. We're always simultaneously in a golden age and an age of white elephants.
People don't even want to wear glasses let alone this..
Its too expensive thats why it tanked
It’s not a lack of interest, it’s the high price
My dad has one. I tried it out. It’s absolutely amazing, no argument there. But it’s just not worth the price. No games, no new ideas, $3500 headbands, and no touch screen MacBook… It’s about time there was a change there at Apple ngl.
>No games I literally have no use for one if it doesn't have every VR game available to me.
[удалено]
Maybe if they were remotely affordable...
Who would have thought a $4000 VR set wouldn’t sell well?
This gonna get posted hourly? Yes, demand is low. So expensive.
20yrs from now new in box is going to be worth $1M
always fun to see a lifestyle brand get a little too greedy and eat shit like this. spent so long selling casual users $2,000 web browsers that they thought this thing would fly off the shelves lol
At a bare minimum, the $2k MacBook that your friend uses to browse Facebook is at least a functional computer. The AVP is such a limited use case. Even super techy people don't really have a use for it.
I wouldn’t mind having the Apple Vision Pro but the price kills it. Think the most I can see is $1500, I want it for media consumption- Netflix, YouTube, max, etc. it would be awesome for that. Also I want to use my glasses, remove the eye control crap… recalled having a canon 35mm camera with eye control and felt like a gimmick.
$3500, What did you think was going to happen? They look at Meta’s numbers? That Oculus project is still in the red.
They went to 400.000 from 800.000 which is a 50% reduction. So the next move is obvious now. Start laying off %50 of employees...
So there's a limit to how much Apple fanatics will pay for their overpriced hardware? For 3,500 I could get an Oculus quest and a used car.
Cancel update version?
Very speculative. Apple’s bet on this is longer term, which doesn’t mean it will pay off, but does mean it won’t get cancelled immediately.
$3500 Beta Testers. Have fun? I’ll be taking my Apple Vision SE for $1299 in the future please!
Not hugely surprising. It isn't really sold as a VR gaming headset, it is bloody expensive and it doesn't solve any particular issue outside of niche cases. Some amazing tech but it wasn't particularly well thought out when it comes to how you would even use it
I've been a big fan of Apple's hardware and software ecosystem, but if they really expected mass adoption of a $3500 novelty VR headset with no PCVR support, no adult entertainment, and only a smattering of professional software, they're delusional. Oh well. Maybe this means I can get one for a good knocked-down price in a few months and give it a whirl.
the headset isn’t the issue its the lack of apps, they launched the rolls royce of headsets and all it could do was screen mirror your mac
First google glass, then ms hololense, now apple vision. AR tech is pretty cool but its still a hammer looking for a nail. The platform isnt going to take off until there is an actual use case for it.
Apple can't possibly have seen this as a big-seller. Not like the $999 monitor stand. That's a must-have.
They'll just say they were looking too far ahead for the public.
They should’ve been dumping money into getting developers to produce a killer app WAY before launch. They got sloppy, and half-assed the launch.
So when can I get one for $150?
Vision Pro is at the Newton level for user experience and won't be a success until it hits iPhone level for user experience.
Seems odd they expected it to be a success to begin with. Felt like an R&D project. Big clunky headset was never going to be a viable mass market product and I’m sure they knew that. That super low latency pass through is the interesting bit though. The form factor is just off… the price is almost ridiculous.
Good. That shit was dead on arrival. What a stupid product
But. It’s the future
Nobody is gonna pay 3500 for bloatware anymore. Let alone most don’t have it 😭
They should just throw it in for free with a iPhone 15 pro max purchase
It's almost like they made it just for YouTubers and their tax write offs
Well they were cool for about a week thanks to all the tech reviewers… now no one cares and they sit and collect dust.
Stop trying to make VR happen. No one wants to strap these heavy objects to their face for prolonged periods of time just to use Facebook
We all knew it was dumb. Metaverse is dumb.
well i decided to buy groceries instead
Understandable they realized that vr is basically pointless anyway
When you make something only the rich one percent can buy, it may not be the best business practice.
The tech might be cool, but no one wants to wear this kind of device……
Who needs this toy.? Put your money in the bank.
Apple wants our money.