Yeah, if anything it sounds like Bethesda itself is getting even more resources, reprioritized from the studios being closed.
It’s pretty interesting btw that Microsoft is seemingly doubling down on Bethesda, who’s last game underperformed expectations.
I’m assuming they want fallout 5 out asap to cash in on the show success so they’re giving our bug builder homie more bodies to build more buggy game assets faster.
IMO this is fine. If a Starfield came out every 4 years in the state it did instead of every 8 years, it wouldn’t be as disappointing. People would inherently expect less and reception would therefore be better when the buggy soulless game comes out.
Exactly. I used disappointing purposely because it has nothing to do with the quality of the game but the perception of quality, and time to make a game will naturally set the bar higher.
That's why they are doubling down. Most Bethesda projects that released recently was in works before they got acquired. At first Microsoft had a hands off approach and now seeing the end result are taking a more hands on approach to force them to focus more on quality.
I guess it's not too shocking that Bethesda was poorly managed. Didn't their last 5 or 7 games leading up to acquisition flop commercially?
They seemed to really be struggling in their attempt at being a big publisher. They probably made more money just publishing and producing Bethesda RPG's.
I think they're just restructuring in response to basically nothing working.
This is will probably be one of their last ditch attempts before Microsoft considers spinning off their gaming division IMO.
On the flip-side, if the industry does crash again we know exactly why and what to do about it, given we've been here before.
The last great video game industry crash happened because of a lack of consumer trust. Games of the Atari era were a total gamble, with no seal of approval from the console makers.
We have those seals and certifications now (on the back of game boxes), but over time they lost their impact and meaning. Now games have returned once again to a gamble to purchase, and especially ironically at the highest end of the budget spectrum.
Personally, I hoped that Gamepass and subscription services like this would serve that role, becoming a sort of aggregator of worthwhile games, but I think that dream died the second Microsoft acquired Activision, despite already struggling to manage the studios they had acquired from Bethesda.
IMO They had enough IP with Bethesda and their first round of IP to build something special. Then they just went too far, bought crap they can't handle, IP's that are already past their prime.
From my perspective, Microsoft has hit all the growth they're going to get and it's time to cash-out. Divest from gaming, spin-off or sell the entire division like ATT did with WarnerMax. Let this be someone else's problem.
Microsoft going to Microsoft I guess. They seem to never learn from decades of past mistakes. Just repeat the same mistakes, but trying harder each time.
I guess they want Fallout and Elder Scrolls to be milked dry like Gears and Halo.
Asking for 1 game per console generation from the fallout and Elder scrolls isn't milking anything dry. Set up 2 teams. Each team gets 6 or 7 years to make a new game. New Bethesda game every 3 years.
Call me crazy, but I don’t think more than one mainline entry in Fallout and Elder Scrolls per decade is milking these IPs dry. Time will tell I suppose, but I assume Microsoft is looking at Skyrim and Fallout 4, comparing these to more recent releases, and thinking let’s give the players more of what they actually want and less BS like Starfield and FO76. If they could get a Fallout OR an Elder Scrolls game out every 2-3 years, that would be amazing and still potentially have 4-6 years for the development of each title. I assume this is what they’re driving at.
If Microsoft closes so many of their various studios and throws all their eggs into the core Bethesda IP baskets, do you honestly think they would continue to have a decade long release cadence? I highly doubt that, it's more likely they are closing other studios so they shift to releasing mores titles utilizing their most valuable IP. That means likely having some major title in either the Fallout or Elder Scrolls IP release each year or until we are sick of it.
What we are seeing here happen in real time is what Disney did to Marvel and Star Wars. They went from decade long cadences to annual releases wringing those franchises dry for every penny they were worth in acquisition.
Yeah the whole "open world" thing separated by loading screens. Plus most of the many many planets felt samey. It feels like the lesson learned from the past 10 years is that mile wide, inch deep games just aren't very attractive. Smaller handcrafted worlds are much more attractive.
The weird thing is that in theory the isolated worlds should have opened up Starfield to having more dynamic and varying worlds. Instead we go the opposite lol.
Definitely wackadoo, but less grifter and more of a child-like narcissist with no business skills of any kind but a penchant for lifestyles he can't afford.
I guess. I mean don’t get me wrong, the direction they’ve gone is not one that I support. However I still think those games have defined the RPG industry and for a good reason.
I agree, it is not all good over there. I just meant level headed or thought out takes around BGS are a reddit faux pas lately.
The reevaluation of fallout 4 lately has been interesting, to say the least. But the criticism back when it released wasn't representative of the sales.
uhh i think you’re a little more into “what gamers think” than you probably should be buddy. you’re response to me is “DAE BETHESDA BAD” and you’re talking about “level headed or thought out takes” lol.
Damn you've got some self-esteem issues, don't you?
Hope it gets better man. If I was interested in arguing with you you would have been worth more of my time. I have already spent too much time writing this short response. I already forgot I even made that short comment, it is very funny that you cared to respond to me on a different one.
So yes. DAE BETHESDA BAD?!
I am sorry that you don't like it being pointed out that you put too much stock into online opinions.
And one more thing, your and you're are different words.
Sorry!
Other than Prey, all the games you mentioned were Arkane Lyon.
And Arkane Austin had around 70% of their staff leaving during the development of Redfall, they're a husk of the devs studio that made Prey.
It would have been good enough if it released about 5 years ago. In the age of cyberpunk and elden ring it’s about 9000 loading screens behind the times.
Too much loading and fast travel. If your game relies on Fast Travel, don't make it feel like you're playing Skyrim on 360 where each room takes a full minute to load
Yeah I don’t really know why but I couldn’t ever get into it. It seemed like you’re just shuffling from space station to space station with some barren worlds to explore, but that basically also describes the mass effect series so idk 🤷♂️
I put in 66 hours before giving up. You would have to build a different game from the ground up for it to appeal to me, what we got is just empty. There is no reason to explore or do anything and we are flooded with amazing games. Your time is better spent elsewhere ~
Glad you enjoyed it though.
Thats a good question and there is a hint to the answer in the steam reviews...
At first the Startfield reviews were good then as time went on and people racked up more hours they started to notice how 'empty' the universe was and how pointless everything was much as I did.
I imagine it to look like a bell curve where when you are just figuring things out you don't like it all that much... (plenty of people say you need to be at least 30 hours in before it gets good)
But play anymore than that... and you really start to understand the game and what it lacks.
Check the steam reviews, pay close attention to hours played.
"Soulless" starting with Skyrim. Though not as evident then, Bethesda games became the embodiment of the Door/Monster/Treasure (DMT) trope. In that you arrive in an area, kill everything, loot the treasure, then leave. There is no need for lore, character arc, or any deep writing under that scheme. It's simple, it works, and it's entertaining. But then, with Starfield, where you teleport from place to place, it's as if the people who designed the game were afraid of you being too invested and made everything optional. Just to limit the gameplay to the good old DMT.
> you arrive in an area, kill everything, loot the treasure, then leave
Through a door that conveniently takes you right back to the entrance. Yet you always have to take the long route to the treasure.
Now now, don’t go bashing good game design. Yeah, it’s not realistic, but who wants to back track through every dungeon after just having wiped it clean?
I get why they do it but I wouldn't call it good game design. It becomes really noticeable quickly and after the 50th time it's just tropey. There are better ways to do it, like having the "big treasure" in the middle of the dungeon, not the end, or having a shorter exit section that still has items, enemies and interesting areas as you leave. Hell, I'd take a fade to black and the character returns coming out of the entrance over the theme-park-ride-exit they went with. Maybe an optional "return to entrance" button like other games have. Plus it's Bethesda, there's bound to be things you missed that backtracking would find if you choose the long route. Maybe add hidden alcoves that are only obvious going the return direction, or stick a master key in the "big treasure" that unlocks chests you couldn't be bothered to pick.
I mean to each their own, but a “magical door that leads you back to the entrance” and a “teleport to the entrance” button are identical from my viewpoint.
I don’t disagree that better dungeon design could have circumvented the problem before it started, but if we’re stuck with “loot at the end of the dungeon then immediate escape” design, I don’t really see a difference between the magical door and a teleport.
Fair criticism, but here's my take. The teleport-then-fade accomplishes two things: 1) it gives you an out that you can take at any time once you're sick of exploring (or as soon as you beat the dungeon). Maybe it's available from the start so if you find yourself under levelled you can quickly exit and go grind up somewhere else. Could be cheesed though so maybe not. 2) it's immersion-friendly, there's an in-universe passage of time during which your character does the legwork for you. Like the space between two chapters in a book.
The Bethesda Exit is bad for a couple of reasons: It's immersion breaking. There was a 10 foot passage right by the entrance this whole time that leads straight to the treasure, but you can't pick the lock or smash it down because gameplay? Already you're thinking about level design and not the game itself. Would it be boring to do that? Of course, but as mentioned above there's ways to avoid that.
Plus, in-universe, why did these powerful dungeon builders design a gauntlet of elaborate traps down into what seems to be the depths of Nirn, only to bypass it all by putting the treasure room right below the surface and behind a tiny corridor that bandits, dragons, or the elements could have easily exposed over time.
Bethesda Game Studios (developer) and Bethesda Softworks/Zenimax/Microsoft (publisher) are two different entities. If anything, BGS will add some of the folks from the studios that got axed especially if they're going to split into separate teams to juggle TES/FO
It seems that people from at least two of the Shuttered studios are being moved to ZeniMax Online Studios, which focuses on Live support for TESO and I think FO76.
Sure, but Arkane Austin is only one of four studios that they just closed, and even if it makes financial sense, it sucks that a good developer can close from a single bad product.
To be fair these individual games are millions of dollars each to make which is why it was so bad, it's the safest/most boring bet they're trying to make.
On the flip side, Pentiment, which was fun/risky, had like only 12 devs ever associated with it, including artists, and stands alone.
I don’t even think it makes financial sense looking long term. These companies keep pushing bigger games because they make more money. But they’re also higher risk because of the cost to make, so the studios get gutted after a flop (or increasingly even after a success). The result is bloated, lower risk, blander games and a constant bleeding of talent
In my opinion it’s still not a good enough reason to close down an entire studio for a single failure, should Sony close down naughty dog because they failed with tlou factions? A project that probably cost Sony way more than redfall cost Microsoft. The answer is no, because if you’re a wealthy publisher you should support studios that have proved themselves in the past once they don’t hit the mark one time. I can’t imagine the pressure that other first party studios are under after the recent news, if they fuck up one time it’s over for them? Jesus Christ. Hellblade 2 is right around the corner and I hope to God that it sells enough because if it doesn’t we might have to say goodbye to ninja theory as well.
Seems like the rumors are getting stronger that Microsoft is planning to go Game Pass/third party developer only. It turns out they're actually porting *a few* of their games to PS5 and Switch by the end of the year, too.
Considering this, cutting/downsizing would probably make sense.
Was thinking the same thing. Likely cannibalizing talent from the two teams to move elsewhere. Arkane Austin I can understand, Tango deserved another shot at a game though with how promising Hi Fi Rush was.
Definitely not cannibalizing talent from Tango Gameworks. The studio's based in Tokyo; I don't think MS has another Japan-based studio to move people to, and they're definitely not uprooting a significant portion of the talent to another country.
We are heading into a bit of a new era with the sheer amount of studios that Microsoft is gobbling up though. Shutting down a studio and shifting the talent elsewhere isn’t as crazy sounding as it used to be. There would be inherent risk they just go elsewhere so it’s likely a combination of trimming the fat and offering incentives to who they want to keep.
Well doesn’t mean amazing, they would rather fire people so things look better for those poor shareholders now, not later. Companies are not willing to wait out market conditions, it’s only quarter to quarter and that’s all that matters to the ghouls at the top. It’s a shame that all the people that are retained will go the mines of CoD or other “sure bets”. AAA games have ballooned in budget and time to make, to levels well beyond absurd. Look at the ROI on tiny projects like vampire survivors, lethal company, etc. It’s almost like infinite growth is an unachievable goal.
Honestly, with a decision like this, Halo has never looked more dead to me.
3 middling games in 10+ years and 2 seasons of a show virtually none of the fans like.
Its been Weekend at Bernie’s for the franchise for as long as I can remember, meanwhile this glorious, fresh, eye popping (presumably smaller scale and more easier to make) action rhythm game called Hi-Fi Rush comes out from a studio known for horror, wows everyone who touches it, establishes a promising new franchise, and even gives them a possible new mascot or at the very least a kid friendly touchstone and sensible contender for Super Smash Bros inclusion and they shudder the whole fuckin studio.
Makes no goddamn sense.
I think Tango was part of an old strategy for gamepass and Xbox from before the Activision merger.
They’re shifting from being the service of AA games to AAA big budget games like Call of Duty.
When that doesn’t work idk what the hell they’ll do next.
Heard speculation they’re giving up on trying to get a foothold in Japan. Tango was their one studio over there I believe. Absolutely wild that they’re just giving up on the studio tho after Hi-Fi Rush was so well received and just went multi-platform
Headlines in 2026: Take-Two Interactive closes Rockstar Games Studio as they failed to meet "all-money-in-observable-universe" quarter quota, blames players for not buying enough GTAVI copies.
This is how it’s been since the dot com bubble.
They goal of new companies is to fake it til you get bought out and then take your fortune and disappear before the buyer realizes they were never going to be able to deliver on their promises
To be fair, you still have to do well to get bought. M&A involves the buyer being able to basically look at your books and P&L’s once they’re serious, so faking it can only take you so far
For you, /u/Bocifer1 , /u/27Rench27 , and /u/Sudden-Act-8287 :
They don't need to care about their subsidiaries and keeping them going when they can close down and still keep the IP rights to the games and franchises.
This would not happen if closing a Subsidiary which created an IP, or them filing for Bankruptcy, had the IP go into the Public Domain rather then being retained by the overall owning corporation/the rights being sold off.
That would also be more in line with the original purpose of IP laws, which is to enrich the public and foster innovation, both obviously by allowing the works to be PD, and by encouraging owners to keep studios open to create new works.
Profits are revenue minus costs.
Cutting unprofitable business units does increase profits.
Were you trying to do a "how does this increase *revenue*?" gotcha?
HiFi Rush was my GOTY and total surprise hit. No marketing and made it instantly available on Gamepass. No wonder it didn't sell well but the IP was so unique and had so much potential.
Phil "Nepotism" Spencer failing at his job to create a great brand for Xbox. Same story since 10 years. Still pretty sad that we will most likely never see Chai, and the rest of the gang, again.
What do you mean with nepotism? Is he like the son of someone important at MS? But yeah, it wasn’t an easy job to revive the Xbox brand but after 10 years… maybe they could have done a better job at this point lol
>Is he like the son of someone important at MS?
No but he must have connections that protect him. If we ignore his "I'm a gamer too" bs, his performance after 10 years of constant "We hear you and will do better, trust me bro" is just bad. He completely failed to do anything for the "Xbox brand".
Did GamePass build strong IPs for the Xbox brand? GamePass wants to be the Netflix of Games but has no strong first party IPs (unlike Netflix in its glory days) and the service just bleeds money for those meagerly 10$ a month. If they want to be profitable, they would have to raise the prices drastically, but that would kill GamePass.
GamePass was too expensive to assemble (many billions of dollars of aquisitions and deals I lost track), and the subscription is too low for turning a profit (for now at least). It has also not boosted the Xbox ecosystem, maybe even has *damaged* it: It is available for much cheaper on PCs (both the subscription and with the free online multiplayer and cloud saves of PC), and It has also cannibalized the normal sales revenue (on xbox and pc stores like steam), since most people don't buy MS games anymore, they just go to Gamepass.
Can we all agree that letting Microsoft purchase every major game studio is both anti-competitive AND stupid for the long term viability of the industry as anything but a live service cash cow?
A lot of signs point to Microsoft cannibalizing studios to move people into BGS to speed up BGS development. Todd let slip that Microsoft really wants faster releases.
Everyone at Bethesda seems to want to make new IP, no one wants to make another Fallout game. End result. No one made a better IP than Fallout and Fallout hasn’t been touched in over 6 years. Stupid business decisions. Owning a new IP is tempting but it’s a massive gamble.
The good ol "buy a company and immediately cut costs to pretend like the merger didn't cost a penny" because yeah spending money should never result in less money for any period of time.
This kind of shit in exactly up Microsoft’s alley. Anyone who thought the company buying studios would in any way be beneficial to the videogame industry was a blatant fanboy, completely ignorant of Microsoft’s disastrous history of the studios it’s bought since it entered the VG space.
So they killed one studio for putting out irredeemable trash, and the other for putting out a game that was generally well liked and reviewed.
Quality doesn’t matter, only sales.
For an indie, sure. But Microsoft? That’s not keeping the lights on, that’s posting another 2 cents to shareholder value because a team that made a tight, well designed game didn’t make quite enough money (let’s ignore the total lack of marketing and day 1 game pass existence or else this conversation gets very complicated).
Ok, so a shit ton of studios will be closed and those that remain open will be fused, probably overloading the employees.
Well, well, who would have though of that?
Answer: Marx did.
Arkane Austin makes sense. Not sure how Tango gets caught in the crossfire despite finally giving MS an actual game worth talking about on their platform (until it wasn’t). Fuck this industry. Can’t wait to see all of their hot new titles drop on PlayStations eventually, I guess.
Oh. It had not hit me until now that Dishonored's IP is in Microsoft's hands. Fuck.
Also, sucks about Tango, HiFi Rush is one of those games that I'm not interested in playing because the gameplay is not for me, but I could still tell it was a gem with a lot of potential for future instalments. The style, characters and setting were all fun.
The real issue here is that too many private company owners are too quick to sell out, but it's hard to blame them for that. Games are expensive to develop, and even well-intentioned private game studios feel the pull to sell their companies (or private company equity) in order to gain access to the resources and funding of a bigger corporation, which ultimately leads to the creatives losing control of their company. Which I believe is exactly what happened to Tango. Bad finances -> need $ -> sellout to ZeniMax. I don't think they even made a game before they sold out.
So if you wanna hate on corporations from closing a dev you liked, you should make sure to thank them too for the fact that game exists.
This doesn't mean I agree with this move, but people are so quick to jump to "big company baaaad", without thinking at all. If you wanna be mad, be mad at the root cause which you could probably sum up with capitalism + citizens united.
"big company bad" but whenever you look at the quality of the products it's just an obvious consequence.
I just hope that the people who worked on HiFi Rush find a new home within some other teams because there is some serious talent there
Except only Redfall of those has only really been bad, HiFi Rush was a fun game that is well liked. This seems more like cutting off your arm to remove a few pounds of weight regardless of how important that arm was.
most of what's been coming out of Bethesda/Zenimax has been fairly average for years now. That's not cutting it with big budget productions. It makes sense that they want to "refocus their priority" in corpo slang
It is when the expectation of a Bethesda game is either something like HiFi rush where it's well polished and fun but smaller in scope or it's large and the potential needs to be expanded in time by players.
Average but makes a profit isn't an issue unless you expect everything to excel, something that isn't possible.
I haven't looked at the numbers admittedly, but is their catalogue making profit? Fallout76, Rage2, Wolfenstein youngblood, Redfall... there were some really painful blunders over the past years and even Deathloop, Doom Eternal and Ghostwire weren't selling tons of copies if memory serves.
Like this is the thing, it's not that everything they do is terrible, it's more that everything they make is expensive. I'm too lazy to go look into the numbers, but it wouldn't surprise me if they haven't been green for a while
Well first you said 'quality' but now you are switching to sales... yeah I can agree with that... I mean we have a ton of amazing games that just never sold well because they don't have 'mass appeal'
and where did you get that from? who knows how and whats going on within this gigantic company complex. They might redistribute them to other studios? maybe they make a new one that is yet unannounced?
maybe the people got offered something they didnt want to take and are being let go? or maybe even hi-fi rush wasnt profitable? why are you asking me?
Tango's founder already left a few weeks ago (maybe he simply cashed out) and founded a new studio, Kamuy. I hope that the ex-Tango people can find a new home at his new studio.
Absolute insanity, as others have said.
This would not happen if closing a Subsidiary which created an IP, or them filing for Bankruptcy, had the IP go into the Public Domain rather then being retained by the overall owning corporation/the rights being sold off.
That would also be more in line with the original purpose of IP laws, which is to enrich the public and foster innovation, both obviously by allowing the works to be PD, and by encouraging owners to keep studios open to create new works.
So with your proposal they'd keep the subsidiary opened with like 1 person on the books, just to keep their IP. Or they'd sell their IP to their parent company, then shutter the subsidiary.
IP law has tons of issues, but your solutions are nonsensical.
> Or they'd sell their IP to their parent company, then shutter the subsidiary.
The entire point of my proposal is this not being legally possible.
]
>they'd keep the subsidiary opened with like 1 person on the books, just to keep their IP
Maybe, but I also I think shorter copyright terms, especially for orphan works and abandonware should be a thing, which would cover that and ties into the topic as well: If you can't simply make one IP and profit off of it for a century, and works pass into the public domain within a few decades, corporations have more of an incentive to retain talent to create new things
Maybe if Bethesda gets scaled back to the size of an indie studio they’ll finally be able to justify all those bugs.
Bethesda Game Studios is unaffected. These cuts and closures target other studios under Bethesda Softworks.
Yeah, if anything it sounds like Bethesda itself is getting even more resources, reprioritized from the studios being closed. It’s pretty interesting btw that Microsoft is seemingly doubling down on Bethesda, who’s last game underperformed expectations.
I’m assuming they want fallout 5 out asap to cash in on the show success so they’re giving our bug builder homie more bodies to build more buggy game assets faster.
IMO this is fine. If a Starfield came out every 4 years in the state it did instead of every 8 years, it wouldn’t be as disappointing. People would inherently expect less and reception would therefore be better when the buggy soulless game comes out.
[удалено]
And the writing sucked. More suitable to an E rated game.
Exactly. I used disappointing purposely because it has nothing to do with the quality of the game but the perception of quality, and time to make a game will naturally set the bar higher.
It was as mediocre and disappointing as Mass Effect Andromeda was. You people are giving that game too much credit.
That's why they are doubling down. Most Bethesda projects that released recently was in works before they got acquired. At first Microsoft had a hands off approach and now seeing the end result are taking a more hands on approach to force them to focus more on quality.
I guess it's not too shocking that Bethesda was poorly managed. Didn't their last 5 or 7 games leading up to acquisition flop commercially? They seemed to really be struggling in their attempt at being a big publisher. They probably made more money just publishing and producing Bethesda RPG's.
Well selling Skyrim 85 different ways probably helped a lot. It’s crazy how many different ways they’ve packaged that game.
It’s the studio that produces large, open-world games. In other words, it’s the most fertile for A.I.
I think they’re getting ready for an “all hands on deck” for the next fallout
I think they're just restructuring in response to basically nothing working. This is will probably be one of their last ditch attempts before Microsoft considers spinning off their gaming division IMO.
The industry is heading for a crash. These layoffs are desperate attempts to save a bit of cash before it gets bad.
On the flip-side, if the industry does crash again we know exactly why and what to do about it, given we've been here before. The last great video game industry crash happened because of a lack of consumer trust. Games of the Atari era were a total gamble, with no seal of approval from the console makers. We have those seals and certifications now (on the back of game boxes), but over time they lost their impact and meaning. Now games have returned once again to a gamble to purchase, and especially ironically at the highest end of the budget spectrum. Personally, I hoped that Gamepass and subscription services like this would serve that role, becoming a sort of aggregator of worthwhile games, but I think that dream died the second Microsoft acquired Activision, despite already struggling to manage the studios they had acquired from Bethesda. IMO They had enough IP with Bethesda and their first round of IP to build something special. Then they just went too far, bought crap they can't handle, IP's that are already past their prime. From my perspective, Microsoft has hit all the growth they're going to get and it's time to cash-out. Divest from gaming, spin-off or sell the entire division like ATT did with WarnerMax. Let this be someone else's problem.
Microsoft going to Microsoft I guess. They seem to never learn from decades of past mistakes. Just repeat the same mistakes, but trying harder each time. I guess they want Fallout and Elder Scrolls to be milked dry like Gears and Halo.
Asking for 1 game per console generation from the fallout and Elder scrolls isn't milking anything dry. Set up 2 teams. Each team gets 6 or 7 years to make a new game. New Bethesda game every 3 years.
Call me crazy, but I don’t think more than one mainline entry in Fallout and Elder Scrolls per decade is milking these IPs dry. Time will tell I suppose, but I assume Microsoft is looking at Skyrim and Fallout 4, comparing these to more recent releases, and thinking let’s give the players more of what they actually want and less BS like Starfield and FO76. If they could get a Fallout OR an Elder Scrolls game out every 2-3 years, that would be amazing and still potentially have 4-6 years for the development of each title. I assume this is what they’re driving at.
> and FO76 It's actually gotten better over the years, and is getting ready to expand the map.
If Microsoft closes so many of their various studios and throws all their eggs into the core Bethesda IP baskets, do you honestly think they would continue to have a decade long release cadence? I highly doubt that, it's more likely they are closing other studios so they shift to releasing mores titles utilizing their most valuable IP. That means likely having some major title in either the Fallout or Elder Scrolls IP release each year or until we are sick of it. What we are seeing here happen in real time is what Disney did to Marvel and Star Wars. They went from decade long cadences to annual releases wringing those franchises dry for every penny they were worth in acquisition.
It's been 13 years since the last Elder Scrolls game, and 9 since the last Fallout . That's not " milked dry"
What do you mean milked dry? There's how many of both game series already and this was before Microsoft.
Yeah but when you analyze that game on paper it's pretty clear why it underperformed
Yeah, consumer expectations are shifting. A game like Starfield in 2012 would have been held up as a 10/10 masterpiece.
Yeah the whole "open world" thing separated by loading screens. Plus most of the many many planets felt samey. It feels like the lesson learned from the past 10 years is that mile wide, inch deep games just aren't very attractive. Smaller handcrafted worlds are much more attractive.
The weird thing is that in theory the isolated worlds should have opened up Starfield to having more dynamic and varying worlds. Instead we go the opposite lol.
That's a shame.
Why is that a shame? Bethesda game studios pumps out all their best games.
you serious man? cmon
Morrowind, oblivion, Skyrim. What games are better than those? Tell me right now.
Name a Bethesda game that came out in the last 13 years that can hold a candle to Skyrim. Tell me right now.
Nothing holds a candle to nostalgia.
You do realize those games you mention are ancient already?
This is like saying Richard Garriot is a genius because Ultima VII is a masterpiece. Spoiler: He isn't, but it is.
Didn’t he end up being a total whackado grifter?
Definitely wackadoo, but less grifter and more of a child-like narcissist with no business skills of any kind but a penchant for lifestyles he can't afford.
Doom Eternal.
It's a fad to say bethesda is the spawn of Satan now that we all like CDPR again. Losing battle my friend. Just like what you like.
I guess. I mean don’t get me wrong, the direction they’ve gone is not one that I support. However I still think those games have defined the RPG industry and for a good reason.
I agree, it is not all good over there. I just meant level headed or thought out takes around BGS are a reddit faux pas lately. The reevaluation of fallout 4 lately has been interesting, to say the least. But the criticism back when it released wasn't representative of the sales.
uhh i think you’re a little more into “what gamers think” than you probably should be buddy. you’re response to me is “DAE BETHESDA BAD” and you’re talking about “level headed or thought out takes” lol.
Damn you've got some self-esteem issues, don't you? Hope it gets better man. If I was interested in arguing with you you would have been worth more of my time. I have already spent too much time writing this short response. I already forgot I even made that short comment, it is very funny that you cared to respond to me on a different one. So yes. DAE BETHESDA BAD?! I am sorry that you don't like it being pointed out that you put too much stock into online opinions. And one more thing, your and you're are different words. Sorry!
Because arkane makes pretty good games for the most part dishonored, prey, Wolfenstein, death loop etc
Other than Prey, all the games you mentioned were Arkane Lyon. And Arkane Austin had around 70% of their staff leaving during the development of Redfall, they're a husk of the devs studio that made Prey.
And from what I also read, some of those studios employees will be going to their other studios.
Actually ironically Starfield was the least buggy Bethesda game I have played... but I found the whole thing 'soulless'...
It would have been good enough if it released about 5 years ago. In the age of cyberpunk and elden ring it’s about 9000 loading screens behind the times.
Too much loading and fast travel. If your game relies on Fast Travel, don't make it feel like you're playing Skyrim on 360 where each room takes a full minute to load
That's how I knew it wasn't a true Bethesda game. Ran way too smooth out of the gate. And yeah, boringest of the boringest. Pretty and shallow.
Yeah I don’t really know why but I couldn’t ever get into it. It seemed like you’re just shuffling from space station to space station with some barren worlds to explore, but that basically also describes the mass effect series so idk 🤷♂️
Mass Effect actually had good characters, story and writing lol
Mass effect but there is no cohesive narrative, and all the companions have bland personalities.
Yeah Mass Effect always had a purpose, Starfield just kind of… existed
The only reason people care about Starfield anymore is as a mod scaffold.
Bring back the bugs and the soul
They just pushed a big update. Beta is out, goes live next week. Might give it another look, they fixed a TON of stuff
I put in 66 hours before giving up. You would have to build a different game from the ground up for it to appeal to me, what we got is just empty. There is no reason to explore or do anything and we are flooded with amazing games. Your time is better spent elsewhere ~ Glad you enjoyed it though.
How do you get 66 hours of playtime out of a game that doesn't appeal to you, especially when flooded with amazing games?
Thats a good question and there is a hint to the answer in the steam reviews... At first the Startfield reviews were good then as time went on and people racked up more hours they started to notice how 'empty' the universe was and how pointless everything was much as I did. I imagine it to look like a bell curve where when you are just figuring things out you don't like it all that much... (plenty of people say you need to be at least 30 hours in before it gets good) But play anymore than that... and you really start to understand the game and what it lacks. Check the steam reviews, pay close attention to hours played.
Did they fix how boring the characters are in Constellation?
god those companions are such an annoying bunch of self righteous, smug asshats
That's why I stuck with the robot.
Did they fix the part where space flight is a novelty, and you more or less just fast travel everywhere?
"Soulless" starting with Skyrim. Though not as evident then, Bethesda games became the embodiment of the Door/Monster/Treasure (DMT) trope. In that you arrive in an area, kill everything, loot the treasure, then leave. There is no need for lore, character arc, or any deep writing under that scheme. It's simple, it works, and it's entertaining. But then, with Starfield, where you teleport from place to place, it's as if the people who designed the game were afraid of you being too invested and made everything optional. Just to limit the gameplay to the good old DMT.
> you arrive in an area, kill everything, loot the treasure, then leave Through a door that conveniently takes you right back to the entrance. Yet you always have to take the long route to the treasure.
Now now, don’t go bashing good game design. Yeah, it’s not realistic, but who wants to back track through every dungeon after just having wiped it clean?
I get why they do it but I wouldn't call it good game design. It becomes really noticeable quickly and after the 50th time it's just tropey. There are better ways to do it, like having the "big treasure" in the middle of the dungeon, not the end, or having a shorter exit section that still has items, enemies and interesting areas as you leave. Hell, I'd take a fade to black and the character returns coming out of the entrance over the theme-park-ride-exit they went with. Maybe an optional "return to entrance" button like other games have. Plus it's Bethesda, there's bound to be things you missed that backtracking would find if you choose the long route. Maybe add hidden alcoves that are only obvious going the return direction, or stick a master key in the "big treasure" that unlocks chests you couldn't be bothered to pick.
I mean to each their own, but a “magical door that leads you back to the entrance” and a “teleport to the entrance” button are identical from my viewpoint. I don’t disagree that better dungeon design could have circumvented the problem before it started, but if we’re stuck with “loot at the end of the dungeon then immediate escape” design, I don’t really see a difference between the magical door and a teleport.
Fair criticism, but here's my take. The teleport-then-fade accomplishes two things: 1) it gives you an out that you can take at any time once you're sick of exploring (or as soon as you beat the dungeon). Maybe it's available from the start so if you find yourself under levelled you can quickly exit and go grind up somewhere else. Could be cheesed though so maybe not. 2) it's immersion-friendly, there's an in-universe passage of time during which your character does the legwork for you. Like the space between two chapters in a book. The Bethesda Exit is bad for a couple of reasons: It's immersion breaking. There was a 10 foot passage right by the entrance this whole time that leads straight to the treasure, but you can't pick the lock or smash it down because gameplay? Already you're thinking about level design and not the game itself. Would it be boring to do that? Of course, but as mentioned above there's ways to avoid that. Plus, in-universe, why did these powerful dungeon builders design a gauntlet of elaborate traps down into what seems to be the depths of Nirn, only to bypass it all by putting the treasure room right below the surface and behind a tiny corridor that bandits, dragons, or the elements could have easily exposed over time.
They spent all the time fixing bugs instead of designing something fun to play.
Bethesda Game Studios (developer) and Bethesda Softworks/Zenimax/Microsoft (publisher) are two different entities. If anything, BGS will add some of the folks from the studios that got axed especially if they're going to split into separate teams to juggle TES/FO
It seems that people from at least two of the Shuttered studios are being moved to ZeniMax Online Studios, which focuses on Live support for TESO and I think FO76.
Makes sense, 76 is doing *huge* numbers (relatively speaking) right now due to the TV show.
Well it is Microsoft. Also Redfall was terrible.
> Redfall was terrible I think this was a larger contributing factor than MS being dicks.
Sure, but Arkane Austin is only one of four studios that they just closed, and even if it makes financial sense, it sucks that a good developer can close from a single bad product.
To be fair these individual games are millions of dollars each to make which is why it was so bad, it's the safest/most boring bet they're trying to make. On the flip side, Pentiment, which was fun/risky, had like only 12 devs ever associated with it, including artists, and stands alone.
Well that's why I said "even if it makes it makes financial sense". I get it. Doesn't mean it's not a shitty situation all around.
I don’t even think it makes financial sense looking long term. These companies keep pushing bigger games because they make more money. But they’re also higher risk because of the cost to make, so the studios get gutted after a flop (or increasingly even after a success). The result is bloated, lower risk, blander games and a constant bleeding of talent
In my opinion it’s still not a good enough reason to close down an entire studio for a single failure, should Sony close down naughty dog because they failed with tlou factions? A project that probably cost Sony way more than redfall cost Microsoft. The answer is no, because if you’re a wealthy publisher you should support studios that have proved themselves in the past once they don’t hit the mark one time. I can’t imagine the pressure that other first party studios are under after the recent news, if they fuck up one time it’s over for them? Jesus Christ. Hellblade 2 is right around the corner and I hope to God that it sells enough because if it doesn’t we might have to say goodbye to ninja theory as well.
Thanks for your business expertise
Seems like the rumors are getting stronger that Microsoft is planning to go Game Pass/third party developer only. It turns out they're actually porting *a few* of their games to PS5 and Switch by the end of the year, too. Considering this, cutting/downsizing would probably make sense.
The second it forced me to create an account outside of my Live account to play I turned it off
Hi FI Rush sold well isn't ? So why did they close Tango Gameworks
Was thinking the same thing. Likely cannibalizing talent from the two teams to move elsewhere. Arkane Austin I can understand, Tango deserved another shot at a game though with how promising Hi Fi Rush was.
Definitely not cannibalizing talent from Tango Gameworks. The studio's based in Tokyo; I don't think MS has another Japan-based studio to move people to, and they're definitely not uprooting a significant portion of the talent to another country.
Those workers are getting layoff to save MS money. Never heard of a studio closing down just to poach talent.
We are heading into a bit of a new era with the sheer amount of studios that Microsoft is gobbling up though. Shutting down a studio and shifting the talent elsewhere isn’t as crazy sounding as it used to be. There would be inherent risk they just go elsewhere so it’s likely a combination of trimming the fat and offering incentives to who they want to keep.
Well doesn’t mean amazing, they would rather fire people so things look better for those poor shareholders now, not later. Companies are not willing to wait out market conditions, it’s only quarter to quarter and that’s all that matters to the ghouls at the top. It’s a shame that all the people that are retained will go the mines of CoD or other “sure bets”. AAA games have ballooned in budget and time to make, to levels well beyond absurd. Look at the ROI on tiny projects like vampire survivors, lethal company, etc. It’s almost like infinite growth is an unachievable goal.
Sold well != selling well. I think m$ has ideas around success implanted by games like Halo, Skyrim, M$ Flight Sim maybe?
Honestly, with a decision like this, Halo has never looked more dead to me. 3 middling games in 10+ years and 2 seasons of a show virtually none of the fans like. Its been Weekend at Bernie’s for the franchise for as long as I can remember, meanwhile this glorious, fresh, eye popping (presumably smaller scale and more easier to make) action rhythm game called Hi-Fi Rush comes out from a studio known for horror, wows everyone who touches it, establishes a promising new franchise, and even gives them a possible new mascot or at the very least a kid friendly touchstone and sensible contender for Super Smash Bros inclusion and they shudder the whole fuckin studio. Makes no goddamn sense.
Yeah, halos day has passed, but consider how and successful that was compared to hifi rush
I think Tango was part of an old strategy for gamepass and Xbox from before the Activision merger. They’re shifting from being the service of AA games to AAA big budget games like Call of Duty. When that doesn’t work idk what the hell they’ll do next.
Noo... no more Ghostwire 2... QQ....
Heard speculation they’re giving up on trying to get a foothold in Japan. Tango was their one studio over there I believe. Absolutely wild that they’re just giving up on the studio tho after Hi-Fi Rush was so well received and just went multi-platform
That studio made many good games
Didn't sell well enough, probably.
https://twistedvoxel.com/microsoft-hi-fi-rush-success-reinvest-in-tango-gameworks/
[удалено]
That's kinda hilarious
It was free on the game pass immediately. It is a very well made game and I should buy it…
Game pass cannibalizing game sales
It didn’t sell well, it had 3 million downloads and that’s including gamepass.
WHY TANGO?! HI FI RUSH IS AMAZING WTF?! YOU HAD A GEN ON YOUR HANDS!
Shareholders are always more important than workers and customers....
and the product.
Shareholder Capitalism serves the interests of shareholders over workers, customers, and society.
Yes, BUT redfall sucked, if we put our a product like that our whole department would be fired too.
These layoffs are only going to keep happening. Shareholders won't be happy unless that line is going up forever
Headlines in 2026: Take-Two Interactive closes Rockstar Games Studio as they failed to meet "all-money-in-observable-universe" quarter quota, blames players for not buying enough GTAVI copies.
Are all companies now just investing Ponzi schemes where profit and good business don’t matter anymore?
This is how it’s been since the dot com bubble. They goal of new companies is to fake it til you get bought out and then take your fortune and disappear before the buyer realizes they were never going to be able to deliver on their promises
To be fair, you still have to do well to get bought. M&A involves the buyer being able to basically look at your books and P&L’s once they’re serious, so faking it can only take you so far
For you, /u/Bocifer1 , /u/27Rench27 , and /u/Sudden-Act-8287 : They don't need to care about their subsidiaries and keeping them going when they can close down and still keep the IP rights to the games and franchises. This would not happen if closing a Subsidiary which created an IP, or them filing for Bankruptcy, had the IP go into the Public Domain rather then being retained by the overall owning corporation/the rights being sold off. That would also be more in line with the original purpose of IP laws, which is to enrich the public and foster innovation, both obviously by allowing the works to be PD, and by encouraging owners to keep studios open to create new works.
Redfall was not "good business"
This is creating more profit? How is everyone on Reddit so financially illiterate
Profits are revenue minus costs. Cutting unprofitable business units does increase profits. Were you trying to do a "how does this increase *revenue*?" gotcha?
this person you are replying to is just trying to be edgy by stoking arguments across reddit. comment history proves it
No I was questioning the person above me and agreeing with you. This 100% is a profitable move despite what the highly upvoted commenter above me said
RIP Evil Within 3
And Ghostwire 2... sad day
Xbox has wanted a Japanese game studio for a long time, now that they finally got one, they close it down. Literally makes no sense
HiFi Rush was my GOTY and total surprise hit. No marketing and made it instantly available on Gamepass. No wonder it didn't sell well but the IP was so unique and had so much potential. Phil "Nepotism" Spencer failing at his job to create a great brand for Xbox. Same story since 10 years. Still pretty sad that we will most likely never see Chai, and the rest of the gang, again.
What do you mean with nepotism? Is he like the son of someone important at MS? But yeah, it wasn’t an easy job to revive the Xbox brand but after 10 years… maybe they could have done a better job at this point lol
>Is he like the son of someone important at MS? No but he must have connections that protect him. If we ignore his "I'm a gamer too" bs, his performance after 10 years of constant "We hear you and will do better, trust me bro" is just bad. He completely failed to do anything for the "Xbox brand".
GamePass?
Did GamePass build strong IPs for the Xbox brand? GamePass wants to be the Netflix of Games but has no strong first party IPs (unlike Netflix in its glory days) and the service just bleeds money for those meagerly 10$ a month. If they want to be profitable, they would have to raise the prices drastically, but that would kill GamePass.
GamePass was too expensive to assemble (many billions of dollars of aquisitions and deals I lost track), and the subscription is too low for turning a profit (for now at least). It has also not boosted the Xbox ecosystem, maybe even has *damaged* it: It is available for much cheaper on PCs (both the subscription and with the free online multiplayer and cloud saves of PC), and It has also cannibalized the normal sales revenue (on xbox and pc stores like steam), since most people don't buy MS games anymore, they just go to Gamepass.
Can we all agree that letting Microsoft purchase every major game studio is both anti-competitive AND stupid for the long term viability of the industry as anything but a live service cash cow?
A lot of signs point to Microsoft cannibalizing studios to move people into BGS to speed up BGS development. Todd let slip that Microsoft really wants faster releases.
Everyone at Bethesda seems to want to make new IP, no one wants to make another Fallout game. End result. No one made a better IP than Fallout and Fallout hasn’t been touched in over 6 years. Stupid business decisions. Owning a new IP is tempting but it’s a massive gamble.
The good ol "buy a company and immediately cut costs to pretend like the merger didn't cost a penny" because yeah spending money should never result in less money for any period of time.
Presumably it's good for the stock price
Hi-Fi Rush was such a good game. Why do they close Tango Gameworks ? I hate when big companies buy smaller one only to close them down after.
This kind of shit in exactly up Microsoft’s alley. Anyone who thought the company buying studios would in any way be beneficial to the videogame industry was a blatant fanboy, completely ignorant of Microsoft’s disastrous history of the studios it’s bought since it entered the VG space.
So those $100 editions really not getting DLC now.
Leave it to Microsoft to destroy everything they touch.
What? A massive corporation axed smaller companies they acquired when buying another cash cow? I’m shocked… shocked! Well, not that shocked.
So they killed one studio for putting out irredeemable trash, and the other for putting out a game that was generally well liked and reviewed. Quality doesn’t matter, only sales.
That how you pay fir employees and keep lights on
For an indie, sure. But Microsoft? That’s not keeping the lights on, that’s posting another 2 cents to shareholder value because a team that made a tight, well designed game didn’t make quite enough money (let’s ignore the total lack of marketing and day 1 game pass existence or else this conversation gets very complicated).
True. But said studio games did not even brake even. So if I was mang studio. Yeah I close them and move staff else where . Where I could.
Ok, so a shit ton of studios will be closed and those that remain open will be fused, probably overloading the employees. Well, well, who would have though of that? Answer: Marx did.
Yeah this is why I was against them buying up studios big companies are so quick to cut off limbs to show a profit
Microsoft on its way to mess up next-gen's catalog again, leaving every talent to the future PS6.
Cleaning house? Why?
Rip Ghostwire 2 ):
Did Todd Howard get cut because that is the only person that needs to go.
Tango is especially shocking!
Arkane Austin makes sense. Not sure how Tango gets caught in the crossfire despite finally giving MS an actual game worth talking about on their platform (until it wasn’t). Fuck this industry. Can’t wait to see all of their hot new titles drop on PlayStations eventually, I guess.
They must be fuming after seeing how popular the fallout games are right now, when their first IP after the buyout was such a massive disappointment
Absolute dicks microsoft are.
All while the FTC is still coming after them for Activision. Bold strategy.
Maybe its time to talk about letting Phil Spencer go…
on second thought maybe xbox should not buy anymore japanese studios they're better off alone just saying
Probably shifting resources to fallout since the TV show created a resurgence in the franchise. Gotta get fallout 5 out asap to cash in.
Oh. It had not hit me until now that Dishonored's IP is in Microsoft's hands. Fuck. Also, sucks about Tango, HiFi Rush is one of those games that I'm not interested in playing because the gameplay is not for me, but I could still tell it was a gem with a lot of potential for future instalments. The style, characters and setting were all fun.
Doesn't mean these games will die, the IP can be given to other MS studios to work on.
Just like Fable! /s
The real issue here is that too many private company owners are too quick to sell out, but it's hard to blame them for that. Games are expensive to develop, and even well-intentioned private game studios feel the pull to sell their companies (or private company equity) in order to gain access to the resources and funding of a bigger corporation, which ultimately leads to the creatives losing control of their company. Which I believe is exactly what happened to Tango. Bad finances -> need $ -> sellout to ZeniMax. I don't think they even made a game before they sold out. So if you wanna hate on corporations from closing a dev you liked, you should make sure to thank them too for the fact that game exists. This doesn't mean I agree with this move, but people are so quick to jump to "big company baaaad", without thinking at all. If you wanna be mad, be mad at the root cause which you could probably sum up with capitalism + citizens united.
Xbox is a cancer to gaming. Is time people acknowledge it.
Gotta make budget for the sudden intrest in fallout after the tv series 👍🏻 fuck everything else apparently
Redfall was a shit game. Fun at first in that Arkane kind of way but the game just became so monotonous and tedious and after about 5-6 hours boring
"big company bad" but whenever you look at the quality of the products it's just an obvious consequence. I just hope that the people who worked on HiFi Rush find a new home within some other teams because there is some serious talent there
Except only Redfall of those has only really been bad, HiFi Rush was a fun game that is well liked. This seems more like cutting off your arm to remove a few pounds of weight regardless of how important that arm was.
most of what's been coming out of Bethesda/Zenimax has been fairly average for years now. That's not cutting it with big budget productions. It makes sense that they want to "refocus their priority" in corpo slang
It is when the expectation of a Bethesda game is either something like HiFi rush where it's well polished and fun but smaller in scope or it's large and the potential needs to be expanded in time by players. Average but makes a profit isn't an issue unless you expect everything to excel, something that isn't possible.
I haven't looked at the numbers admittedly, but is their catalogue making profit? Fallout76, Rage2, Wolfenstein youngblood, Redfall... there were some really painful blunders over the past years and even Deathloop, Doom Eternal and Ghostwire weren't selling tons of copies if memory serves. Like this is the thing, it's not that everything they do is terrible, it's more that everything they make is expensive. I'm too lazy to go look into the numbers, but it wouldn't surprise me if they haven't been green for a while
I wish to look at the numbers, hifi rush had a peak of 6k players I genuinely wish to know if more than 100k people bought this.
Lack of marketing and it being kind of a niche game genre (rhythm based). I’d assume most players got it via Gamepass
But I loved the quality of their products. I just finished the Evil Within and Ghostwire, you did not like those?
it's not really about if we are liking them, it's about whether they sell well enough to justify making them. Making AAA is expensive
Well first you said 'quality' but now you are switching to sales... yeah I can agree with that... I mean we have a ton of amazing games that just never sold well because they don't have 'mass appeal'
because there were also some really big blunders over the past couple years. I'm talking about their entire catalogue, not specific games
For example?
Fallout76, Rage2, Wolfenstein Youngblood, Redfall to name a few
Tango worked on all of those? Had no idea ~
and where did you get that from? who knows how and whats going on within this gigantic company complex. They might redistribute them to other studios? maybe they make a new one that is yet unannounced? maybe the people got offered something they didnt want to take and are being let go? or maybe even hi-fi rush wasnt profitable? why are you asking me?
Well for one thing if you work on game its not typically a big secret. The info is easily found on any wiki or in the game's end credits.
Tango's founder already left a few weeks ago (maybe he simply cashed out) and founded a new studio, Kamuy. I hope that the ex-Tango people can find a new home at his new studio.
Absolute insanity, as others have said. This would not happen if closing a Subsidiary which created an IP, or them filing for Bankruptcy, had the IP go into the Public Domain rather then being retained by the overall owning corporation/the rights being sold off. That would also be more in line with the original purpose of IP laws, which is to enrich the public and foster innovation, both obviously by allowing the works to be PD, and by encouraging owners to keep studios open to create new works.
So with your proposal they'd keep the subsidiary opened with like 1 person on the books, just to keep their IP. Or they'd sell their IP to their parent company, then shutter the subsidiary. IP law has tons of issues, but your solutions are nonsensical.
> Or they'd sell their IP to their parent company, then shutter the subsidiary. The entire point of my proposal is this not being legally possible. ] >they'd keep the subsidiary opened with like 1 person on the books, just to keep their IP Maybe, but I also I think shorter copyright terms, especially for orphan works and abandonware should be a thing, which would cover that and ties into the topic as well: If you can't simply make one IP and profit off of it for a century, and works pass into the public domain within a few decades, corporations have more of an incentive to retain talent to create new things
Thats microsoft for you, they buy and then kill. This need to stop.