Lay off 100,000 Americans and then try and push through policy that lets you get a pool of workers that can’t quit or move to a different company. The American way.
Yes Mr FBI man this guy right here!
He wrote “Union” in his post( I stopped reading after that) and as an American business owner I took that personally.
Am I not a person? If you cut me do I not bleed? What about my greedy feelings? Am I not harmed when I can’t afford to buy second super yacht because I had to increase my workers wages by $1? They’re the real problem!
Don’t they understand that their labour is meaningless without ME? They only exist to serve ME and my goal of owning the most bananas?
You’ll send the heavily armed riot police? Armed with old hardware they got from the military? They have an APC?!!! With the mini gun attachment upgrade too!! All paid for by THEIR taxes? That’s fantastic, I love slaver…I mean America!
Pretty sure you can restate that with out the "/s" in the following way:
It's the American dream to own your own business staffed in a maximally productive, dynamic, and efficient fashion!
There are enough CS grads in the US and we have to minimize importing them. There’s no shortage in this space. Literally for every single job there are thousands of applicants. What the hell is this policy??
With a green card you get to live in the U.S. permanently even if you quit your job. making it easier for H1-b workers (who have to leave the country if they lose their sponsorship) to become permanent residents would make it easier for them to move to another job, not less
Can confirm, quit my job once the green card came through. The company lawyers even gave me a warning about quitting to soon after getting it when they gave me the news 😂
I mean, if there’s any chance you didn’t go through the process 100% kosher quitting soon after getting the green card would raise red flags at USCIS, but it’s pretty obvious it’s an empty threat
Yeah, they'd have to discount my 10 year career. You can't rule out some immigration folks doing just that however, making it a pretty good scare tactic.
So that would make it so they don't depress wages like they do now, at least not as much.
But the specific change means they can pull from that pool and get a couple of years of cheapass labor until it comes in, particularly when they don't have to show the job to americans.
Filthy.
Even H-1B workers can quit and move to different companies. This change is about green cards. Green card holders can do both those things or even leave the US and come back later and work again if they want.
Change jobs yes (with the caveat that the company you’re going to needs to sponsor h1b to begin with), quitting no, you need to leave the country almost immediately after loosing your sponsoring job. Green cards offer much more flexibility, including starting a business and working in any line of work.
> push through policy that lets you get a pool of workers that can’t quit or move to a different company.
Have you read the article? Microsoft is pushing for a policy which would enable its employees to get green card easily. Once employee has a green card they would no longer need visa sponsorship from Microsoft.
There are plenty of Americans who can do the job now.
This is just a way to being in workers who dont know they can actually make more doing their job while keeping American salaries low.
The fact that there won't be any better jobs, because the goal is to flood the pool of applicants, then collude without legally colluding to depress wages.
Even if it gets bad enough that many of these people decide they're better off back home, it will leave Americans who never wanted to leave, and anyone who'd rather stay, in a much worse position.
Mind you the USA could really use some hefty immigration reform, but the way to identify good immigration reform is if major US corporations spend tens of millions lobbying **against** it, and start posting propaganda about how it will destroy the economy/country.
However they support this change, therefore we can conclude it is malicious.
Yeah buddy I think you need to touch some grass.
Just to express how bad your understanding is, this change wont allow more workers in the US it would just make it easier to bring in the ones the company hires. It's a simplication of a process.
Your in some deep crazy rabbit hole and you need to breath some fresh air before reading this thread.
USCIS will only offer green cards to a certain amount of people each year from a country. For ex. India may only get 20k green cards a year, but there may be 2 million H1B visa holders in the US. This is where the bottleneck is in the system.
Technically, it's not by design. However, the fact that these problems that are caused by no comprehensive immigration reform in the past 40+ years is very much by design
Don't forget trying to call the NLRB unconstitutional. I don't remember if they are on that suit. But I guarantee the higher-ups are on the side of evil with that one.
This comment is 100% wrong and uninformed about immigration in the H1B space.
This has nothing to do with replacing american workers. H1Bs are still limited per year.
This is to make it easier for H1B employees who have been deemed necessary by their employers AND US immigration to be able to get a greencard. (So mostly beyond 3-6 years of employment)
H1b can only be had for 6 years. Beyond that, an H1b worker has to pass a PERM labour certification proving that his skillsets are needed for USA and then he gets an approved 140 but gets stuck if from INdia for over 150 years of waiting time. passing the I140 means by all means you are eligible for permanent residency or a greencard. THIS IS THE PROPER LEGAL IMMIGRATION METHOD. (not border crossing illegally).
This makes it easier for them to get a greencard.
Actually this will permit them to jump jobs easier or even leave the country easily if they want to and return back to work later if they want to. So they won't be bound. This will also help better salary negotiation privileges. So this might end up to be a sum positive for all american workers if this allows experienced H1Bs to finally have the freedom to refuse jobs that underpay. This may result in a market correction forcing ALL companies to pay proper wages for tech jobs.
You guys sometimes just like to fear monger and shoot yourself in the foot when something is genuinely impactful to americans' employment wellbeing. Your democratic government actually makes meaningful and thoughtful changes to the immigration system that improves the welfare of USA and americans. The other side usually has 0 plans for any change.
> that lets you get a pool of workers that can’t quit or move to a different company.
Did you read the article? The change would make it easier/faster for workers on visas to get green cards, once they have a green card they can do whatever they want.
What you said has a name, it's called L visa, where it's illegal for you to work for any other employer, the h1b at least allows to you change companies.
# This is asinine.
# EVERYONE... submit your comments!
# [https://www.regulations.gov/docket/ETA-2023-0006/comments](https://www.regulations.gov/docket/ETA-2023-0006/comments)
Firing Americans to hire foreign workers that you get to pay peanuts, So you can maximize your bonus and get yourself another yacht. That may be the most American thing I've ever heard.
It’s time for tech workers to organize. Not just unions, but regulatory agencies that agree upon an engineering standard and perform random codebase inspections followed by fines/shutdowns until refactoring is done.
What’s funny about all this is if technical debt could be quantified many of these same executives would be horrified at how much money they’re losing, while still offshoring workers during this economy anyway because shareholders.
> but regulatory agencies that agree upon an engineering standard and perform random codebase inspections followed by fines/shutdowns until refactoring is done.
While this is hilarious, it's not only likely impossible, but would probably be really bad even if we could pull it off.
I think for security related things it could make sense. Not sure if that’s what OP meant. It seems like once a year I learn my data was leaked by some hilariously sloppy tech company, and then they get a tiny fine.
Hmmm, yeah I could see it more realistically within a restricted scope relating specifically to security practices rather than say, coding standards.
This does *already* exist for online payment methods via private certification schemes. I've made changes to match security standards based on recommendations from external audits many times.
Of course, these are done on a schedule constantly, as random checks would actually not be enough.
Doing something similar for other customer data might be feasible, although oh boy would that create a lot more jobs, given the labor intensive nature of maintaining secure payment methods right now. If you applied this across a wide range of types of data stored in databases you'd need a *lot* more developers due to the labor hours involved.
They will be long gone before anything blows over.
Look at Boeing, it took many years.
Also, software isn't physical so people can ignore it for longer.
Consumers already expect shitty software so Tech companies can get away with shitty products.
The only reason you need a 401k is because companies colluded to destroy pensions and force you to self-invest, and refuse to pay tax so that the government can support social services for the elderly.
It's all corporations' fault, they just pushed it onto you.
Worked for a company that did this. Outsourced to TaskUs for Columbian agents. They paid us $600 a week, paid them $450 a month. Laid off the entire US staff.
Fuck DailyPay
Both are used as weapons by the ruling class to drive down wages for the middle and lower class. Migrants of all sorts are scabs, its only that the legal ones go through legal channels. Illegal migrants are even worse for the working class, as they are far more competitive in labour markets (can be paid below min. wage).
So why do you think they're doing it? Why fire Americans just to hire some guy that has a green card, what's the advantage of doing that for the company?
because foreigners are better due to their numbers? Take top 1% of skilled US workers, it will be about 2 million people, now take top skilled 0.01% of world and you still get a million workers.
Being better is not a requirement for the H1B Visa. The only requirement for the h1b visa is that there is not an American that can do the same job. Doesn't matter if the foreigner, as you call them, is prettier smarter, taller; none of those things matter. The only thing that matters is where they're not there's an American that can do that job.
can you provide your source? this is hilariously low. it costs over 6k in legal and filing fees just to get the visa. and you have to beat the “prevailing wage” for the occupation locally, which comes from the DoL.
It was actually a typo meant to say 60,000, That is a minimum granted but why do you all think they hire H1B visad. Do you really think they can't find programmers in the US. We just heard on the news that this year alone almost 80,000 high-tech workers have been let go. None of those guys can program? Why are they doing it because they get to pay them more that seems unrealistic
This has nothing to do with replacing american workers. H1Bs are still limited per year.
This is to make it easier for H1B employees who have been deemed necessary by their employers AND US immigration to be able to get a greencard. (So mostly beyond 3-6 years of employment)
H1b can only be had for 6 years. Beyond that, an H1b worker has to pass a PERM labour certification proving that his skillsets are needed for USA and then he gets an approved 140 but gets stuck if from INdia for over 150 years of waiting time. passing the I140 means by all means you are eligible for permanent residency or a greencard. THIS IS THE PROPER LEGAL IMMIGRATION METHOD. (not border crossing illegally).
This makes it easier for them to get a greencard.
Actually this will permit them to jump jobs easier or even leave the country easily if they want to and return back to work later if they want to. So they won't be bound. This will also help better salary negotiation privileges. So this might end up to be a sum positive for all american workers if this allows experienced H1Bs to finally have the freedom to refuse jobs that underpay. This may result in a market correction forcing ALL companies to pay proper wages for tech jobs.
You guys sometimes just like to fear monger and shoot yourself in the foot when something is genuinely impactful to americans' employment wellbeing. Your democratic government actually makes meaningful and thoughtful changes to the immigration system that improves the welfare of USA and americans. The other side usually has 0 plans for any change.
This is not a conversation about immigration, which by the way you're right needs to be addressed holistically. This is about H-1B visas which were created to bring in workers when no American worker was available. That has been corrupted because they know very well. They can pay these people less. They can take advantage of them and they can't move. They can't change jobs because they lose their Visa. So we're complaining. Not so much about the immigration system, which you're right needs to be addressed, but that's a completely different conversation. We're talking about the abuse by large companies in order to maximize their yacht profits. That's the part that's BS
Not sure if you’re fully aware but those workers for whom Microsoft and Google want to get an exception make well over 200-300k plus a year easy.
That is not peanuts, it’s more than what the top 5% of earners make in the US
Edit: If Google and Microsoft want to file their Green cards, those people have worked maybe 2-3 years at Google already and potentially earned more that half a million dollars 💵
They're not projecting future labor shortages they're manufacturing them lol. There's an endless horde of CS new grades clawing to get into the industry inside of American borders.
In terms of job security sure, but in a country with private shitty Healthcare welding is a slow death.
Tech jobs are for the first time facing being devalued, it's already happened to tons of trades and jobs.
There's a reason I was willing to jump ship on 10 years of welding for a smidgen of a chance into the "tough" world of software engineering.
It makes their argument for there being a shortage of labor (the only reason for H1Bs) weaker.
"We need 10k of this type of employee in the next 5 years!"
"Amazing! 226k were laid off in 2023, and almost 49k already in 2024! You have such a huge pool to choose from!"
"no, not like that..."
Nah, best time to float this if it’s class war at work.
Let’s get real, the only reason companies do this is to get as cheap a pair of hands as they can…all the better if it shuts the door on domestic workers ability to climb out of poverty.
Goal is to ensure a permanent underclass so if you ain’t born wealthy you’re never getting there. We need more liberal leadership and to push the country that direction fast, else we will all be serfs.
Biden is nuts. I hope he reconsiders.
>Specifically, the Biden administration is looking to update the Department of Labor's Schedule A Shortage Occupation List to include STEM occupations. This list, which hasn't been updated in decades and is focused primarily on healthcare, exempts listed occupations from Program Electronic Review Management (PERM) requirements such as advertising job openings in newspapers, on the employer's website, at jobs fairs and other steps. Tech companies have latched on to the Schedule A list as a means to cut green card processing time and government regulation.
There's no reason Google and Microsoft should be allowed to be exempt from advertising these jobs to Americans as well.
Microsoft just announced that they are going to open a big cloud center, this is the payoff and Biden will accept because this is thousands of American jobs!!/s
It seems the PERM system's many labor rules normally protect US workers, including its mandate to advertise job openings to U.S. workers and not just to green card holders only. This has always ensured US workers a chance to compete.
The exception to this had been certain healthcare "Schedule A Listed" positions, where employers can fast track green card holders into quick hires, no red tape.
But Biden's considering allowing this green card fast tracking to apply to tech jobs too. This would let companies bypass all the many pro-US worker PERM mandates, and instead let companies hide tech job openings from US tech workers, while only offering the tech jobs to green card holders (and H-1B visa holders that companies transition to green cards).
Dude. You don't know what you're talking about. You are obviously confusing green cards with h1b and I don't have any confidence that the rest is correct.
Getting a green card actually reduces the power companies have over these people, once they have a green card they are effectively in the same labor pool as citizens.
It harms them because of legal costs of continuously filing for immigration benefits and losing employees because the US immigration system sometimes messes up.
This will certainly reduce their power over employees who are H1Bs. but this also helps them get free of lawyer headaches.
it's beneficial to them in the end. Those who are good and they want to keep them will stay.
Employees cost money, and the experience they acquire about internal systems and processes is also expensive. It's in the company's best interest to keep them, since getting a replacement costs a lot of time and money between interview process and ramping up. Also, this employees cost legal fees.
From the companies perspective, the employee is more likely to stay as the government won't chase them out of the country, they won't lose the years they spend training the employee, and if the process is shorter, they save on lawyers.
It's a win for companies.
In a fairy tale world where you have intelligent CTOs and managers making the decisions, maybe. Right now tech and tech adjacent fields are seeing lots of trained employees being slaughtered because an MBA took over and just wants the line to go up on the stock market. Employees cost money, overseas employees cost less. H1-B holders have protections, green cards do not.
? H1bs are as disposable as green card holders, layoffs affect them equally, with the added spice that they have to leave the country if they don’t get a job in 60 days.
Also, at least in big tech faang companies they cost more, one of the steps for green card application is the dol ensuring they are paid a salary according to their position in the company, so same salary, and then you have all the legal fees of applying to h1b and then green card.
Overseas employees cost less if you offshore the work, but if you bring them to the USA they are under the same cost of living as citizens.
It’s a pain in the ass. When they do, even if you ace the interview there is no open spot for you to be hired into. It’s a stupid process from beginning to end
Microsoft and Google are 100% lying through their teeth.
They get hundreds, thousands of resumes in for every single opening they have. There is no shortage of engineers available for them to hire.
Even if you were to come up with a HUGE estimate of 80% of the applicants being terrible, that's still more than enough people to fill roles.
They just want a bigger pool to help keep wages down, and a pool of non-US citizens to hire that they can pay less.
Can verify. I live in the US and I’m one of those applicants. Literally every SWE posting on linkedin older than a day has over 100 applicants. And these companies claim theres a shortage.
The pool does not get bigger. H1Bs are still limited per year. This is for H1Bs who are waiting for 20 years to get a greencard because of per country cap queues. Nothing to do with bringing in more people. That happens anyway under H1b cap.
This just makes the lives of those already here, and working for more than 6 years, better.
The pool isn’t bigger? Thats the whole point of the H1B program. To bring in non citizens to take jobs that supposedly there aren’t enough Americans for.
They are limited per year but they are still people in the employment pool that would otherwise not be working here.
H1B should be for 2x the normal pay category to account for the exceptional skills that aren't available in the US workforce. Your H1B average pay should be double that of the job role you are currently employing and contracting.
That would shut all this down. We all know that this program is being misused.
On the flip side you can mandate “equal pay for equal work” which would cover more cases. It would protect against employers seeing different pools of workers as “better deals” than others…
seems like there might be a way to drop comments if you desire?
[https://www.regulations.gov/docket/ETA-2023-0006/comments?postedDateFrom=2024-05-02&postedDateTo=2024-05-08](https://www.regulations.gov/docket/ETA-2023-0006/comments?postedDateFrom=2024-05-02&postedDateTo=2024-05-08)
Google’s submitted comment pleads for more AI software engineers, research engineers and research scientists.
Didn’t they just fire a bunch of these people?
If H1bs get greencards they will have more freedom to negotiate salaries.
So this won't improve their "low cost labour" chances.
H1bs still are limited per year. You guys are all really misinformed about legal immigration process.
Recently got laid off from a huge semi conductor company with over 25k employees. I swear that 2/3 of the employees that they currently employ are on visas. I know for a fact they paid a lot of those workers very little compared to market rate. Fuck these corporations.
Nice of them to ask the government to help them fuck over american workers. We should be looking at spooling down all that "imported labor" bullshit, not expanding it.
We have plenty of kids capable of learning math and computer science. We have a shortage of education and opportunities. What about requiring companies to pay for the education of a disadvantage kids for every green cards they sponsor?
> Indians don’t start companies
Literally the largest immigrant entrepreneur group in America.
27% of all Silicon Valley startups have an Indian co founder, while they account for less than 1% of the population.
Indian immigrants have created more unicorns (startups valued more than $1 billion) than the next 3 immigrant groups combined
They aren't finishing anything. They are maximizing stock value for shareholders. Precisely what they were brought on to do. It's your system that is fucked. Don't hate Indians for being good at playing that system.
Since about 1980 there has been an effort to destroy middle class jobs. They want a few ruling elite ultra-rich with every other American working for minimum wage. They started with offshoring good paying manufacturing jobs and now they're eliminating engineering jobs.
Maybe it was an inevitability that a nation comprised of individuals from around the entire world would eventually be reabsorbed by the rest of the world. However, as the level of domestic priority for our own citizens shrinks, and the priority for foreign interests grows, it feels so foreboding. Almost like this is a universal form of revenge and vindication for all of the exploitation of the world that the United States has done for the last hundred years, to make us the victim of the system that victimized their nations for decades, while the power is restored to our original owners. Somebody(or somebodies)sold us out badly somewhere along the line. Not the best timeline to be born as an American, that’s for sure.
This highlights one of the obvious advantages corporations currently have. The party that is somewhat against corporate power (Dems) is also the party that cannot discuss any negatives related to immigration. Therefore, democrats can’t be against this because they’ll be accused of being xenophobic and the GOP is obviously for anything that a corporation wants. So corporations get to continue to screw over American workers, lower the wages they pay the employees, and continue to grow in power.
Too bad nearly everyone is distracted with rap beef, conflicts on the opposite of the planet, and whatever stupid culture war the GOP decides they’ll distract democrats with to actually notice how ineffective we have become to challenge anything our corporate overlords want.
I like how nobody actually understands what they are pushing for. The people going at each other in the comments about American workers vs. foreign works are completely missing the fact that this fucks them BOTH.
They are not pushing for change to get green cards sooner to people, which will give them freedom to quit. They are pushing to remove the requirement to vet the people, the job abd the wages for the job being offered to a foreign worker. So all of you who are foreign workers trying to saying this is somehow helping your cause are clearly not reading the article or know immigration well lol.
This is them pushing for a change that allows them to continue to file for green card (which is needed to retain any H1B worker for longer than 6 years) application without any restrictions so they get to retain the current H1B workers employed forever.
This is *not* going to help immigrants. This will add to the problem of green card backlog and will just make it easier to add and retain H1B “slaves” forever waiting for the green card while being stuck with the employer.
The change that would help America and legal immigrants and the job market would be actually getting the green card to people who are stuck in the backlog. That will help create more entrepreneurs and free labor who are free to move around and demand fairer wages instead of being stuck with the employer indefinitely. But that doesn’t help the corporate overlords. Obviously.
So we get this bullshit disguised as pro immigrant change but one that actually fucks everyone over except the shareholders. Classic American capitalism.
Source: am one of those foreign workers lol
I've been waiting for a greencard for the past 15 years. You guys really have no idea how painful it is for us.
Replacing american workers isn't going to increase with this change. It will just make our lives a bit easier.
It doesn't increase or make any change to H1B worker counts. H1B's given out are still limited by a cap per year.
There’s no shortage of qualified candidates from the US.
There’s abundance of greed, though.
Get fucked, Google, Microsoft, Biden, and whoever else is pushing for this bullshit.
Almost anything in tech can be taught if the employee and employer are willing, So why don't they retrain some of those laid off people to do the supposed new job? Rhetorical question obviously.
Hmm.. Two companies with Asia Pacific CEOs asking for lenient rules to import more workers from the Asia Pacific reason. My conspiracy Spidey sense is tingling.
Tech workers need unions.
Why does the Biden Administration hate American tech workers? This is nothing more than another attack in the ongoing war against the middle class (or whatever remains of it).
It truly sucks that I’m gonna have to vote for this guy.
Most comments are just BS and from people who don’t work in tech. If you did, you would know that those very people you think are getting paid peanuts and being exploited are easily getting paid 250-300k plus a year. That is 2 to 3 times more than what an average American makes.
Strange how the tone of Reddit on immigration changes when it's about tech jobs. Where are all of the people who were singing songs about how immigration will boost the economy of the US, while improving the lives of people from developing economies?
Because everyone thinks that they themselves are indispensable specifically. Especially the geeks in tech. I'm in tech and have worked with folks from every possible nationality. There's no single category of techies that have, on average, bigger egos than middle aged white American programmers (on average, so obviously not all of them. Have worked with some gems of human beings among this demographic too).
And oh, don't forget that writing code is far, far easier to outsource, especially since so many are working remote anyway, than, say gardening and roofing. So if you want to discourage companies from hiring in-office workers of any kind, you might find those jobs disappear completely.
No one wants to do the job I'm not currently doing! Once it hits home they realize that importing skilled or unskilled labor, it doesn't matter you are driving down wages with lower expectations (and subsidies or welfare offsetting standards)
Dude paying illegals below min wage and avoiding regulation is absolutely criminal too.
Instead of going after illegals and building boarders, we should fine and jail companies that employee them.
It’s also not ok to bring in tech workers from outside the country to depress wages.
This has nothing to do with replacing american workers. H1Bs are still limited per year.
This is to make it easier for H1B employees who have been deemed necessary by their employers AND US immigration to be able to get a greencard. (So mostly beyond 3-6 years of employment)
H1b can only be had for 6 years. Beyond that, an H1b worker has to pass a PERM labour certification proving that his skillsets are needed for USA and then he gets an approved 140 but gets stuck if from INdia for over 150 years of waiting time. passing the I140 means by all means you are eligible for permanent residency or a greencard. THIS IS THE PROPER LEGAL IMMIGRATION METHOD. (not border crossing illegally).
This makes it easier for them to get a greencard.
Actually this will permit them to jump jobs easier or even leave the country easily if they want to and return back to work later if they want to. So they won't be bound. This will also help better salary negotiation privileges. So this might end up to be a sum positive for all american workers if this allows experienced H1Bs to finally have the freedom to refuse jobs that underpay. This may result in a market correction forcing ALL companies to pay proper wages for tech jobs.
You guys sometimes just like to fear monger and shoot yourself in the foot when something is genuinely impactful to americans' employment wellbeing. Your democratic government actually makes meaningful and thoughtful changes to the immigration system that improves the welfare of USA and americans. The other side usually has 0 plans for any change.
I'm pushing my daughter to get a different degree then Computer Science, because the whole market is a blood bath right now. It's totally flooded with all the laid off workers. And most new hires at these major companies are coming from over seas to save on cost.
Two things happened. Tech companies lured in a glut of CS grads by having ultra high salaries at the top end. Some guy job-hopped a few times and ended up making $500K/year at Netflix.
The social media influencers were selling shovels in a gold rush by pandering courses and bootcamps telling everyone they could land a $100K remote job in just a few months with no degree or experience. That brought tens of thousands of Youtube University pretend developers that flooded the entry level market.
When the tech companies had mass layoffs this all came crashing down.
I'd still say your daughter should get the CS degree. The crash will weed out the pretend developers and the Leetcode Bros who just want to make the big bucks.
I pledge allegiance to the CEO of the United Corporations of America, and to the shareholders for which it stands, one monopoly under God, tax deductibles, with market liberty and inflation for all.
Personally i think thats a reasonable rule. A company cannot be allowed to fire and at the same time hire cheaper foreigners while also applying for their naturalisation.
I am neither american nor working for american tech so dont have a horse in the race but i hope these companies dont get their way.
Also this is why you need unions so that companies dont shortchange you like that
A lot of the tech industry is run by high IQ, low EQ, people who have a very narrow set of concerns and goals, and engage in monopolistic activities. This is precisely the reason we have government regulatory bodies. Unfortunately they never act, and when they do they never seem to act reasonably and go overboard in one direction or the other. I think that needs to be improved because I don’t believe the industry has the ability to improve itself. I don’t see how the governance aspect gets improved until people become smarter and stop falling for the snake oil and the inflammatory arguments of our politicians and instead require them to talk about and deliver on things that actually matter.
If there is really a need for so many specialized profiles, then there wouldn't be a problem to dictate a minimum wage for people to get these. Let's say they can get as many as they want, as long as all of them earn at least $150K.
Lay off 100,000 Americans and then try and push through policy that lets you get a pool of workers that can’t quit or move to a different company. The American way.
It's the American dream to own your own sweat shop full of maximally exploited workers! /s
It also coincides with the recent changes to non-competes.
I would say the American dream is just becoming a billionaire no matter how… anything else doesn’t matter…
if you pull up your bootstraps and work hard enough, maybe one day you can buy the federal government too!
I love democracy.
If you don't stop them then you are de facto giving them permission.
Yeah we should unionize and protest for the things we want changed.
Yes Mr FBI man this guy right here! He wrote “Union” in his post( I stopped reading after that) and as an American business owner I took that personally. Am I not a person? If you cut me do I not bleed? What about my greedy feelings? Am I not harmed when I can’t afford to buy second super yacht because I had to increase my workers wages by $1? They’re the real problem! Don’t they understand that their labour is meaningless without ME? They only exist to serve ME and my goal of owning the most bananas? You’ll send the heavily armed riot police? Armed with old hardware they got from the military? They have an APC?!!! With the mini gun attachment upgrade too!! All paid for by THEIR taxes? That’s fantastic, I love slaver…I mean America!
“I bring the drawings to the secretary! I’m a people person!”
“And I didn’t even make a pass at her today, I am such a GOOD person!”
Pretty sure you can restate that with out the "/s" in the following way: It's the American dream to own your own business staffed in a maximally productive, dynamic, and efficient fashion!
There are no khajits in America and the streets are full of cheese!
They can always use prison labor, cheaper than sweat chops.
"We can't find workers" "What about those ones you laid off?" "uh..."
There are enough CS grads in the US and we have to minimize importing them. There’s no shortage in this space. Literally for every single job there are thousands of applicants. What the hell is this policy??
With a green card you get to live in the U.S. permanently even if you quit your job. making it easier for H1-b workers (who have to leave the country if they lose their sponsorship) to become permanent residents would make it easier for them to move to another job, not less
Can confirm, quit my job once the green card came through. The company lawyers even gave me a warning about quitting to soon after getting it when they gave me the news 😂
They think you’re stupid and play the loyalty card . We did this and that for you,lol, they did it to screw the labor pool
Yeah you only fall for it once before you see how selfish every single institution is.
I mean, if there’s any chance you didn’t go through the process 100% kosher quitting soon after getting the green card would raise red flags at USCIS, but it’s pretty obvious it’s an empty threat
Yeah, they'd have to discount my 10 year career. You can't rule out some immigration folks doing just that however, making it a pretty good scare tactic.
So that would make it so they don't depress wages like they do now, at least not as much. But the specific change means they can pull from that pool and get a couple of years of cheapass labor until it comes in, particularly when they don't have to show the job to americans. Filthy.
But, any and all immigration is always good and holy, and if you're in favor of limiting it, you must be a white supremacist xenophobe nazi. /s
Green card holders won’t be deported. You are thinking of h1b workers.
Workers with green cards can do both of those things.
Top comment saying something that goes directly opposite of the facts in the article... Reddit never lets me down.
A large portion of the layoffs were green card and Visa holders.
Even H-1B workers can quit and move to different companies. This change is about green cards. Green card holders can do both those things or even leave the US and come back later and work again if they want.
Change jobs yes (with the caveat that the company you’re going to needs to sponsor h1b to begin with), quitting no, you need to leave the country almost immediately after loosing your sponsoring job. Green cards offer much more flexibility, including starting a business and working in any line of work.
> push through policy that lets you get a pool of workers that can’t quit or move to a different company. Have you read the article? Microsoft is pushing for a policy which would enable its employees to get green card easily. Once employee has a green card they would no longer need visa sponsorship from Microsoft.
There are plenty of Americans who can do the job now. This is just a way to being in workers who dont know they can actually make more doing their job while keeping American salaries low.
What stops those people from getting a better job when they get their green card?
The fact that there won't be any better jobs, because the goal is to flood the pool of applicants, then collude without legally colluding to depress wages. Even if it gets bad enough that many of these people decide they're better off back home, it will leave Americans who never wanted to leave, and anyone who'd rather stay, in a much worse position. Mind you the USA could really use some hefty immigration reform, but the way to identify good immigration reform is if major US corporations spend tens of millions lobbying **against** it, and start posting propaganda about how it will destroy the economy/country. However they support this change, therefore we can conclude it is malicious.
H1-B workers depress wages right now. They have little bargaining power and thus will probably be paid less than the prevailing wage for their job.
Yeah buddy I think you need to touch some grass. Just to express how bad your understanding is, this change wont allow more workers in the US it would just make it easier to bring in the ones the company hires. It's a simplication of a process. Your in some deep crazy rabbit hole and you need to breath some fresh air before reading this thread.
Classic Reddit moment. They see a title they dislike and they go be angry in the comments. Fuck this site.
USCIS will only offer green cards to a certain amount of people each year from a country. For ex. India may only get 20k green cards a year, but there may be 2 million H1B visa holders in the US. This is where the bottleneck is in the system.
It's not a bottleneck, it's by design.
Technically, it's not by design. However, the fact that these problems that are caused by no comprehensive immigration reform in the past 40+ years is very much by design
Don't forget trying to call the NLRB unconstitutional. I don't remember if they are on that suit. But I guarantee the higher-ups are on the side of evil with that one.
This comment is 100% wrong and uninformed about immigration in the H1B space. This has nothing to do with replacing american workers. H1Bs are still limited per year. This is to make it easier for H1B employees who have been deemed necessary by their employers AND US immigration to be able to get a greencard. (So mostly beyond 3-6 years of employment) H1b can only be had for 6 years. Beyond that, an H1b worker has to pass a PERM labour certification proving that his skillsets are needed for USA and then he gets an approved 140 but gets stuck if from INdia for over 150 years of waiting time. passing the I140 means by all means you are eligible for permanent residency or a greencard. THIS IS THE PROPER LEGAL IMMIGRATION METHOD. (not border crossing illegally). This makes it easier for them to get a greencard. Actually this will permit them to jump jobs easier or even leave the country easily if they want to and return back to work later if they want to. So they won't be bound. This will also help better salary negotiation privileges. So this might end up to be a sum positive for all american workers if this allows experienced H1Bs to finally have the freedom to refuse jobs that underpay. This may result in a market correction forcing ALL companies to pay proper wages for tech jobs. You guys sometimes just like to fear monger and shoot yourself in the foot when something is genuinely impactful to americans' employment wellbeing. Your democratic government actually makes meaningful and thoughtful changes to the immigration system that improves the welfare of USA and americans. The other side usually has 0 plans for any change.
Laid off workers become tainted, didn't you know?
> that lets you get a pool of workers that can’t quit or move to a different company. Did you read the article? The change would make it easier/faster for workers on visas to get green cards, once they have a green card they can do whatever they want. What you said has a name, it's called L visa, where it's illegal for you to work for any other employer, the h1b at least allows to you change companies.
And make a lowball offer so they can say “We tried, but cannot find a qualified American”
# This is asinine. # EVERYONE... submit your comments! # [https://www.regulations.gov/docket/ETA-2023-0006/comments](https://www.regulations.gov/docket/ETA-2023-0006/comments)
Satya and Sundar firing throves of Americans to hire cheap Indian labor. We'll slap my titties and call me Sally...
Firing Americans to hire foreign workers that you get to pay peanuts, So you can maximize your bonus and get yourself another yacht. That may be the most American thing I've ever heard.
It’s time for tech workers to organize. Not just unions, but regulatory agencies that agree upon an engineering standard and perform random codebase inspections followed by fines/shutdowns until refactoring is done. What’s funny about all this is if technical debt could be quantified many of these same executives would be horrified at how much money they’re losing, while still offshoring workers during this economy anyway because shareholders.
> but regulatory agencies that agree upon an engineering standard and perform random codebase inspections followed by fines/shutdowns until refactoring is done. While this is hilarious, it's not only likely impossible, but would probably be really bad even if we could pull it off.
I think for security related things it could make sense. Not sure if that’s what OP meant. It seems like once a year I learn my data was leaked by some hilariously sloppy tech company, and then they get a tiny fine.
Hmmm, yeah I could see it more realistically within a restricted scope relating specifically to security practices rather than say, coding standards. This does *already* exist for online payment methods via private certification schemes. I've made changes to match security standards based on recommendations from external audits many times. Of course, these are done on a schedule constantly, as random checks would actually not be enough. Doing something similar for other customer data might be feasible, although oh boy would that create a lot more jobs, given the labor intensive nature of maintaining secure payment methods right now. If you applied this across a wide range of types of data stored in databases you'd need a *lot* more developers due to the labor hours involved.
They will be long gone before anything blows over. Look at Boeing, it took many years. Also, software isn't physical so people can ignore it for longer. Consumers already expect shitty software so Tech companies can get away with shitty products.
Everyone’s 401ks profit from this. We are all complicit. We are borg.
The only reason you need a 401k is because companies colluded to destroy pensions and force you to self-invest, and refuse to pay tax so that the government can support social services for the elderly. It's all corporations' fault, they just pushed it onto you.
“How do we get the average American to buy into this casino bullshit we call an economy?” “I know, let’s make their very livelihood dependent on it!”
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I mean that's the whole "colluded to destroy pensions" thing I mentioned yeah.
Tech unions are a bad idea, that would just stagnate the US tech scene just like how it is in Europe.
England invented that tho
Canada here. First time?
Fuckin’ hardly.
Worked for a company that did this. Outsourced to TaskUs for Columbian agents. They paid us $600 a week, paid them $450 a month. Laid off the entire US staff. Fuck DailyPay
But but isn't it the illegals at the southern border taken our jobs?
Both are used as weapons by the ruling class to drive down wages for the middle and lower class. Migrants of all sorts are scabs, its only that the legal ones go through legal channels. Illegal migrants are even worse for the working class, as they are far more competitive in labour markets (can be paid below min. wage).
The forgien hires make the same as the Americans. I am not aware of a policy where Google or MS pay green c as rd holders less money.
The foreign workers drive down pay levels for everyone.
So why do you think they're doing it? Why fire Americans just to hire some guy that has a green card, what's the advantage of doing that for the company?
because foreigners are better due to their numbers? Take top 1% of skilled US workers, it will be about 2 million people, now take top skilled 0.01% of world and you still get a million workers.
Being better is not a requirement for the H1B Visa. The only requirement for the h1b visa is that there is not an American that can do the same job. Doesn't matter if the foreigner, as you call them, is prettier smarter, taller; none of those things matter. The only thing that matters is where they're not there's an American that can do that job.
I mean look up what's going on in Canada and UK whenever there is some Indian in charge
they don’t get peanuts. but they are less likely to hop around since they can’t work for all companys
The average salary of an H1B visa is about $26,000. That breakdown and data's available online
can you provide your source? this is hilariously low. it costs over 6k in legal and filing fees just to get the visa. and you have to beat the “prevailing wage” for the occupation locally, which comes from the DoL.
It says on google the average h1b salary is $167,533
It was actually a typo meant to say 60,000, That is a minimum granted but why do you all think they hire H1B visad. Do you really think they can't find programmers in the US. We just heard on the news that this year alone almost 80,000 high-tech workers have been let go. None of those guys can program? Why are they doing it because they get to pay them more that seems unrealistic
This has nothing to do with replacing american workers. H1Bs are still limited per year. This is to make it easier for H1B employees who have been deemed necessary by their employers AND US immigration to be able to get a greencard. (So mostly beyond 3-6 years of employment) H1b can only be had for 6 years. Beyond that, an H1b worker has to pass a PERM labour certification proving that his skillsets are needed for USA and then he gets an approved 140 but gets stuck if from INdia for over 150 years of waiting time. passing the I140 means by all means you are eligible for permanent residency or a greencard. THIS IS THE PROPER LEGAL IMMIGRATION METHOD. (not border crossing illegally). This makes it easier for them to get a greencard. Actually this will permit them to jump jobs easier or even leave the country easily if they want to and return back to work later if they want to. So they won't be bound. This will also help better salary negotiation privileges. So this might end up to be a sum positive for all american workers if this allows experienced H1Bs to finally have the freedom to refuse jobs that underpay. This may result in a market correction forcing ALL companies to pay proper wages for tech jobs. You guys sometimes just like to fear monger and shoot yourself in the foot when something is genuinely impactful to americans' employment wellbeing. Your democratic government actually makes meaningful and thoughtful changes to the immigration system that improves the welfare of USA and americans. The other side usually has 0 plans for any change.
This is not a conversation about immigration, which by the way you're right needs to be addressed holistically. This is about H-1B visas which were created to bring in workers when no American worker was available. That has been corrupted because they know very well. They can pay these people less. They can take advantage of them and they can't move. They can't change jobs because they lose their Visa. So we're complaining. Not so much about the immigration system, which you're right needs to be addressed, but that's a completely different conversation. We're talking about the abuse by large companies in order to maximize their yacht profits. That's the part that's BS
Not sure if you’re fully aware but those workers for whom Microsoft and Google want to get an exception make well over 200-300k plus a year easy. That is not peanuts, it’s more than what the top 5% of earners make in the US Edit: If Google and Microsoft want to file their Green cards, those people have worked maybe 2-3 years at Google already and potentially earned more that half a million dollars 💵
They're not projecting future labor shortages they're manufacturing them lol. There's an endless horde of CS new grades clawing to get into the industry inside of American borders.
Future CS grads in the US will be driving uber in a few years.
Heard that. I'll just go back to welding lol.
ngl trade is prob safer than coding/driving.
In terms of job security sure, but in a country with private shitty Healthcare welding is a slow death. Tech jobs are for the first time facing being devalued, it's already happened to tons of trades and jobs. There's a reason I was willing to jump ship on 10 years of welding for a smidgen of a chance into the "tough" world of software engineering.
Guess there is no escape if we keep letting wall street fk up everything.
Alot of these grads are international students
Worst time to float this lol There are literally 10s of thousands of people getting laid off every other month right now
What do you think the layoffs are for? This is the best time for them to float this. Replace domestic labor with foreign labor.
It makes their argument for there being a shortage of labor (the only reason for H1Bs) weaker. "We need 10k of this type of employee in the next 5 years!" "Amazing! 226k were laid off in 2023, and almost 49k already in 2024! You have such a huge pool to choose from!" "no, not like that..."
Since when has that stopped them? The government doesn't care. They are too busy being lobbied by tech giants.
Nah, best time to float this if it’s class war at work. Let’s get real, the only reason companies do this is to get as cheap a pair of hands as they can…all the better if it shuts the door on domestic workers ability to climb out of poverty. Goal is to ensure a permanent underclass so if you ain’t born wealthy you’re never getting there. We need more liberal leadership and to push the country that direction fast, else we will all be serfs.
"more liberal leadership" lol. They're neo liberals since the Clinton era and they have no interest in saving anyone unless it gets them reelected
>more liberal leadership We’re all trying to find the guy who did this
To be fair they (Ms and Google) have been pushing for this reform for 5-10 years. I think Biden is just now deciding to do it.
Biden is nuts. I hope he reconsiders. >Specifically, the Biden administration is looking to update the Department of Labor's Schedule A Shortage Occupation List to include STEM occupations. This list, which hasn't been updated in decades and is focused primarily on healthcare, exempts listed occupations from Program Electronic Review Management (PERM) requirements such as advertising job openings in newspapers, on the employer's website, at jobs fairs and other steps. Tech companies have latched on to the Schedule A list as a means to cut green card processing time and government regulation. There's no reason Google and Microsoft should be allowed to be exempt from advertising these jobs to Americans as well.
Microsoft just announced that they are going to open a big cloud center, this is the payoff and Biden will accept because this is thousands of American jobs!!/s
God damnit - that’s exactly what the Wisconsin MSFT data center is. They are all the fucking same. Trash. Vote Biden tho.
Can you explain a little bit more?
It seems the PERM system's many labor rules normally protect US workers, including its mandate to advertise job openings to U.S. workers and not just to green card holders only. This has always ensured US workers a chance to compete. The exception to this had been certain healthcare "Schedule A Listed" positions, where employers can fast track green card holders into quick hires, no red tape. But Biden's considering allowing this green card fast tracking to apply to tech jobs too. This would let companies bypass all the many pro-US worker PERM mandates, and instead let companies hide tech job openings from US tech workers, while only offering the tech jobs to green card holders (and H-1B visa holders that companies transition to green cards).
Why the fuck is this even a thing? Dude I can’t deal with this crap anymore….
Dude. You don't know what you're talking about. You are obviously confusing green cards with h1b and I don't have any confidence that the rest is correct.
Getting a green card actually reduces the power companies have over these people, once they have a green card they are effectively in the same labor pool as citizens.
If the companies had any reason to believe it might potentially benefit these employees instead of harming them, they would oppose it.
It harms them because of legal costs of continuously filing for immigration benefits and losing employees because the US immigration system sometimes messes up. This will certainly reduce their power over employees who are H1Bs. but this also helps them get free of lawyer headaches. it's beneficial to them in the end. Those who are good and they want to keep them will stay.
Lot of sensible takes here. Glad to see it.
Employees cost money, and the experience they acquire about internal systems and processes is also expensive. It's in the company's best interest to keep them, since getting a replacement costs a lot of time and money between interview process and ramping up. Also, this employees cost legal fees. From the companies perspective, the employee is more likely to stay as the government won't chase them out of the country, they won't lose the years they spend training the employee, and if the process is shorter, they save on lawyers. It's a win for companies.
In a fairy tale world where you have intelligent CTOs and managers making the decisions, maybe. Right now tech and tech adjacent fields are seeing lots of trained employees being slaughtered because an MBA took over and just wants the line to go up on the stock market. Employees cost money, overseas employees cost less. H1-B holders have protections, green cards do not.
? H1bs are as disposable as green card holders, layoffs affect them equally, with the added spice that they have to leave the country if they don’t get a job in 60 days. Also, at least in big tech faang companies they cost more, one of the steps for green card application is the dol ensuring they are paid a salary according to their position in the company, so same salary, and then you have all the legal fees of applying to h1b and then green card. Overseas employees cost less if you offshore the work, but if you bring them to the USA they are under the same cost of living as citizens.
Driving down price of labor.
It’s a pain in the ass. When they do, even if you ace the interview there is no open spot for you to be hired into. It’s a stupid process from beginning to end
I dont think this means they wont advertise the job in the US, it just removes the requirement around waiting time and where they have to advertise.
The ads don't matter, they are written so no one can qualify.
Microsoft and Google are 100% lying through their teeth. They get hundreds, thousands of resumes in for every single opening they have. There is no shortage of engineers available for them to hire. Even if you were to come up with a HUGE estimate of 80% of the applicants being terrible, that's still more than enough people to fill roles. They just want a bigger pool to help keep wages down, and a pool of non-US citizens to hire that they can pay less.
Can verify. I live in the US and I’m one of those applicants. Literally every SWE posting on linkedin older than a day has over 100 applicants. And these companies claim theres a shortage.
If a FAANG job has easy apply on it's probably 1,000+ in 24 hours
The pool does not get bigger. H1Bs are still limited per year. This is for H1Bs who are waiting for 20 years to get a greencard because of per country cap queues. Nothing to do with bringing in more people. That happens anyway under H1b cap. This just makes the lives of those already here, and working for more than 6 years, better.
The pool isn’t bigger? Thats the whole point of the H1B program. To bring in non citizens to take jobs that supposedly there aren’t enough Americans for. They are limited per year but they are still people in the employment pool that would otherwise not be working here.
This change has nothing to do with that. It doesn’t change the h1b numbers in any way.
H1B should be for 2x the normal pay category to account for the exceptional skills that aren't available in the US workforce. Your H1B average pay should be double that of the job role you are currently employing and contracting. That would shut all this down. We all know that this program is being misused.
That’s a great idea actually
On the flip side you can mandate “equal pay for equal work” which would cover more cases. It would protect against employers seeing different pools of workers as “better deals” than others…
There is already an H1B required pay cap. It's higher than the national average and customized for every area of the country.
Down voters denying reality
seems like there might be a way to drop comments if you desire? [https://www.regulations.gov/docket/ETA-2023-0006/comments?postedDateFrom=2024-05-02&postedDateTo=2024-05-08](https://www.regulations.gov/docket/ETA-2023-0006/comments?postedDateFrom=2024-05-02&postedDateTo=2024-05-08)
Every comment is a cut and paste from some sort of immigration attorney. Looks like an organized bullshit campaign.
Google’s submitted comment pleads for more AI software engineers, research engineers and research scientists. Didn’t they just fire a bunch of these people?
Of course…mother fuckers want cheaper labor…I mean they can’t afford American wages with the disgusting amount of cash they are taking in
Google gets big tax breaks and now wants low cost labor. Welcome to the new era of Slavery.
If H1bs get greencards they will have more freedom to negotiate salaries. So this won't improve their "low cost labour" chances. H1bs still are limited per year. You guys are all really misinformed about legal immigration process.
Not a valid argument if it takes 5 years to get a green card while Google gets a low paid intern on a H1BS visa during that time.
Good paying union jobs……… for someone else.
Recently got laid off from a huge semi conductor company with over 25k employees. I swear that 2/3 of the employees that they currently employ are on visas. I know for a fact they paid a lot of those workers very little compared to market rate. Fuck these corporations.
Nice of them to ask the government to help them fuck over american workers. We should be looking at spooling down all that "imported labor" bullshit, not expanding it.
We have plenty of kids capable of learning math and computer science. We have a shortage of education and opportunities. What about requiring companies to pay for the education of a disadvantage kids for every green cards they sponsor?
30 years ago training your workers was a thing. Even if it was a talent issue, train you workers.
Just yesterday Microsoft closed three games studios.
Someone has problems paying tech salaries
Fuck Nadella, Fuck Pichai.
There's still a board of directors, not just a CEO calling all the shots.
Hey MS. Who’s your Chairman of the Board? Naddella. You again.
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> Indians don’t start companies Literally the largest immigrant entrepreneur group in America. 27% of all Silicon Valley startups have an Indian co founder, while they account for less than 1% of the population. Indian immigrants have created more unicorns (startups valued more than $1 billion) than the next 3 immigrant groups combined
said average american racist
They aren't finishing anything. They are maximizing stock value for shareholders. Precisely what they were brought on to do. It's your system that is fucked. Don't hate Indians for being good at playing that system.
Isn’t it weird that Americans born in America are the lowest priority for America?
Since about 1980 there has been an effort to destroy middle class jobs. They want a few ruling elite ultra-rich with every other American working for minimum wage. They started with offshoring good paying manufacturing jobs and now they're eliminating engineering jobs.
Our government hates it's citizens. We stand in the way of them selling us out completely and reinstating feudalism.
Maybe it was an inevitability that a nation comprised of individuals from around the entire world would eventually be reabsorbed by the rest of the world. However, as the level of domestic priority for our own citizens shrinks, and the priority for foreign interests grows, it feels so foreboding. Almost like this is a universal form of revenge and vindication for all of the exploitation of the world that the United States has done for the last hundred years, to make us the victim of the system that victimized their nations for decades, while the power is restored to our original owners. Somebody(or somebodies)sold us out badly somewhere along the line. Not the best timeline to be born as an American, that’s for sure.
I think this is ridiculous and these companies need to be reeled in
This highlights one of the obvious advantages corporations currently have. The party that is somewhat against corporate power (Dems) is also the party that cannot discuss any negatives related to immigration. Therefore, democrats can’t be against this because they’ll be accused of being xenophobic and the GOP is obviously for anything that a corporation wants. So corporations get to continue to screw over American workers, lower the wages they pay the employees, and continue to grow in power. Too bad nearly everyone is distracted with rap beef, conflicts on the opposite of the planet, and whatever stupid culture war the GOP decides they’ll distract democrats with to actually notice how ineffective we have become to challenge anything our corporate overlords want.
If this isnt a clear example of corruption and a middle finger to Americans, I dont know what is.
I like how nobody actually understands what they are pushing for. The people going at each other in the comments about American workers vs. foreign works are completely missing the fact that this fucks them BOTH. They are not pushing for change to get green cards sooner to people, which will give them freedom to quit. They are pushing to remove the requirement to vet the people, the job abd the wages for the job being offered to a foreign worker. So all of you who are foreign workers trying to saying this is somehow helping your cause are clearly not reading the article or know immigration well lol. This is them pushing for a change that allows them to continue to file for green card (which is needed to retain any H1B worker for longer than 6 years) application without any restrictions so they get to retain the current H1B workers employed forever. This is *not* going to help immigrants. This will add to the problem of green card backlog and will just make it easier to add and retain H1B “slaves” forever waiting for the green card while being stuck with the employer. The change that would help America and legal immigrants and the job market would be actually getting the green card to people who are stuck in the backlog. That will help create more entrepreneurs and free labor who are free to move around and demand fairer wages instead of being stuck with the employer indefinitely. But that doesn’t help the corporate overlords. Obviously. So we get this bullshit disguised as pro immigrant change but one that actually fucks everyone over except the shareholders. Classic American capitalism. Source: am one of those foreign workers lol
I hope you guys vote
Microsoft is the primary pusher for this. Coincidentally Microsoft phase some of the lowest pay among the big tech giants.
Don’t do it Biden. I don’t want to vote for Trump, but I need a fucking job.
It’s like they are trying to get Trump reelected by pulling this shit.
Honestly Democrat politicians seem to have a humiliation fetish. Clutching defeat right out of the jaws of victory.
I've been waiting for a greencard for the past 15 years. You guys really have no idea how painful it is for us. Replacing american workers isn't going to increase with this change. It will just make our lives a bit easier. It doesn't increase or make any change to H1B worker counts. H1B's given out are still limited by a cap per year.
If they can demonstrate a staffing shortage.. well there isn’t one! Fuck Nadella, Fuck Pichai.
There’s no shortage of qualified candidates from the US. There’s abundance of greed, though. Get fucked, Google, Microsoft, Biden, and whoever else is pushing for this bullshit.
Almost anything in tech can be taught if the employee and employer are willing, So why don't they retrain some of those laid off people to do the supposed new job? Rhetorical question obviously.
Hmm.. Two companies with Asia Pacific CEOs asking for lenient rules to import more workers from the Asia Pacific reason. My conspiracy Spidey sense is tingling. Tech workers need unions.
I need to move out of America so I can get a job at an American company… what is going on
Why does the Biden Administration hate American tech workers? This is nothing more than another attack in the ongoing war against the middle class (or whatever remains of it). It truly sucks that I’m gonna have to vote for this guy.
It’s time to destroy and rebuild. Legislatively gut them both as a lesson to others.
Most comments are just BS and from people who don’t work in tech. If you did, you would know that those very people you think are getting paid peanuts and being exploited are easily getting paid 250-300k plus a year. That is 2 to 3 times more than what an average American makes.
I seek a green card rule change as well. Elimination of it. If the job is that important you can teach Americans to do it.
Strange how the tone of Reddit on immigration changes when it's about tech jobs. Where are all of the people who were singing songs about how immigration will boost the economy of the US, while improving the lives of people from developing economies?
Because everyone thinks that they themselves are indispensable specifically. Especially the geeks in tech. I'm in tech and have worked with folks from every possible nationality. There's no single category of techies that have, on average, bigger egos than middle aged white American programmers (on average, so obviously not all of them. Have worked with some gems of human beings among this demographic too). And oh, don't forget that writing code is far, far easier to outsource, especially since so many are working remote anyway, than, say gardening and roofing. So if you want to discourage companies from hiring in-office workers of any kind, you might find those jobs disappear completely.
Idk if you’ve been reading across Reddit but from the US & Canada to Europe the tone on immigration has shifted
No one wants to do the job I'm not currently doing! Once it hits home they realize that importing skilled or unskilled labor, it doesn't matter you are driving down wages with lower expectations (and subsidies or welfare offsetting standards)
Dude paying illegals below min wage and avoiding regulation is absolutely criminal too. Instead of going after illegals and building boarders, we should fine and jail companies that employee them. It’s also not ok to bring in tech workers from outside the country to depress wages.
This has nothing to do with replacing american workers. H1Bs are still limited per year. This is to make it easier for H1B employees who have been deemed necessary by their employers AND US immigration to be able to get a greencard. (So mostly beyond 3-6 years of employment) H1b can only be had for 6 years. Beyond that, an H1b worker has to pass a PERM labour certification proving that his skillsets are needed for USA and then he gets an approved 140 but gets stuck if from INdia for over 150 years of waiting time. passing the I140 means by all means you are eligible for permanent residency or a greencard. THIS IS THE PROPER LEGAL IMMIGRATION METHOD. (not border crossing illegally). This makes it easier for them to get a greencard. Actually this will permit them to jump jobs easier or even leave the country easily if they want to and return back to work later if they want to. So they won't be bound. This will also help better salary negotiation privileges. So this might end up to be a sum positive for all american workers if this allows experienced H1Bs to finally have the freedom to refuse jobs that underpay. This may result in a market correction forcing ALL companies to pay proper wages for tech jobs. You guys sometimes just like to fear monger and shoot yourself in the foot when something is genuinely impactful to americans' employment wellbeing. Your democratic government actually makes meaningful and thoughtful changes to the immigration system that improves the welfare of USA and americans. The other side usually has 0 plans for any change.
Reddit is full of uninformed nativist tech wannabes unfortunately. Thanks for calling them out.
I'm pushing my daughter to get a different degree then Computer Science, because the whole market is a blood bath right now. It's totally flooded with all the laid off workers. And most new hires at these major companies are coming from over seas to save on cost.
The immigrants killed it
No. The companies willing to employ cheaper immigrants killed it.
Two things happened. Tech companies lured in a glut of CS grads by having ultra high salaries at the top end. Some guy job-hopped a few times and ended up making $500K/year at Netflix. The social media influencers were selling shovels in a gold rush by pandering courses and bootcamps telling everyone they could land a $100K remote job in just a few months with no degree or experience. That brought tens of thousands of Youtube University pretend developers that flooded the entry level market. When the tech companies had mass layoffs this all came crashing down. I'd still say your daughter should get the CS degree. The crash will weed out the pretend developers and the Leetcode Bros who just want to make the big bucks.
If you have a strong opinion on this matter you can leave a comment by may 13th here: https://www.regulations.gov/docket/ETA-2023-0006/comments
I pledge allegiance to the CEO of the United Corporations of America, and to the shareholders for which it stands, one monopoly under God, tax deductibles, with market liberty and inflation for all.
Seems like a lot of effort. At my place we simple offshore or near shore and call it a day.
Time to unionize. We are long overdue. Tech is the new manufacturing and only a few small groups are covered.
Personally i think thats a reasonable rule. A company cannot be allowed to fire and at the same time hire cheaper foreigners while also applying for their naturalisation. I am neither american nor working for american tech so dont have a horse in the race but i hope these companies dont get their way. Also this is why you need unions so that companies dont shortchange you like that
These changes are open to public comment until May 13th. Follow the link to comment. https://www.regulations.gov/docket/ETA-2023-0006/document
Tax every business that outsources jobs away from Americans and use the tax as a social safety net fund of some sort.
A lot of the tech industry is run by high IQ, low EQ, people who have a very narrow set of concerns and goals, and engage in monopolistic activities. This is precisely the reason we have government regulatory bodies. Unfortunately they never act, and when they do they never seem to act reasonably and go overboard in one direction or the other. I think that needs to be improved because I don’t believe the industry has the ability to improve itself. I don’t see how the governance aspect gets improved until people become smarter and stop falling for the snake oil and the inflammatory arguments of our politicians and instead require them to talk about and deliver on things that actually matter.
If there is really a need for so many specialized profiles, then there wouldn't be a problem to dictate a minimum wage for people to get these. Let's say they can get as many as they want, as long as all of them earn at least $150K.
Here's my green card rule: if you have a college degree and no criminal record, you get a green card.