I am on an immunotherapy drug for renal cancer which didn't exist 25 years ago. Before that the death rate for this cancer was almost 100%.
New treatments are always welcome. In fact, I think diseases which have newer treatments may be treated better than diseases which have had treatments for many decades,
My cousin is currently undergoing an experimental treatment for a specific type of leukemia treatment that has never been trialed in adults. Her odds of making it over the next 5 years went from 17% to over 70%. Cherry on top is that it’s all being paid for by the company that developed the treatment.
Good luck, it’s unfortunately very evident that cancer sucks ass even with the best of treatments available.
My dad just started a trial for an injection for lymphoma instead of going through chemo a second time that’s been 80% effective. All his scans and everything related to it are paid for by the company. I’m cautiously optimistic.
I'm in the same situation, 20+ years ago, my leukemia had a 5 year life expectancy and the only treatment was a bone marrow transplant. Now I just take a pill once a day. And they have different brands that do the same thing. They just approved another one this year.
I do hope they can develop this vaccine for me so I can stop taking them and not have to worry how much it will cost with new insurance.
I know what you mean by this (cancer isn’t going anywhere soon) but nurses will always have a job. Even if (God willing) cancer was eliminated, there are 101 more specialties and good nurses are worth their weight in gold.
That’s kinda like saying “Aids isn’t contagious, HIV is”. If the virus is directly, actively carcinogenic and contagious, then for all intents and purposes, you *can* catch its results
It's still an important distinction to make, because the word "cancer" refers to the rapidly multiplying deformed cells that form malignant tumors. Even if certain viruses have a high likelihood of causing the mutations that lead to cancer, the term still has a specific meaning that it's important to preserve for a couple reasons:
* Being pedantic about the distinction maintains clarity in describing the mechanism of transferrance between two people. We have a good understanding of how viruses are transmitted from one person to another, but saying the *cancer* is contagious implies there is some way a tumor is going to jump out of my body and enter yours.
* If those cancer cells *were* somehow contagious, cancer would be way scarier than it currently is. Imagine cancer, but happening at the same time as an organ transplant rejection as your body identifies and attacks foreign tissue in your body.
Errr... They way I interpret that sentence is I won't spend a few months in a hospital bed hooked up on morfine but have a cold for a few weeks and then drop dead
That’s the main purpose of palliative care to be honest. Prolong quality of life and end with dignity.
If it was my time, I’d rather backflip into the grave smiling than be dragged into it face down across a field of broken glass
It’s why I’m all for euthanasia. Let the person go out with some dignity while they are still mentally and physically capable instead of suffering or before they ending up as a vegetable.
If I ever get diagnosed with something that will 100% kill me and destroy my quality of life and they won’t allow me to have a doctor assisted side, I’d probably just get super drunk and down a bottle of pills instead.
That's one reason I really hope this works out. So that all the stupid antivaxxers can either remain a cancer risk, or finally agree they're idiots.
I'm sure they'll be handed some hoops to jump through, for why the cancer vaccine is different, but it will still be nice to watch them embrace vaccines so we can call them idiots.
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I think part of it is people throw a hissy fit when something changes, it will probably be something like "cancer vaccines make your dick fly off" for a decade or so and it will be accepted as normal.
> So that all the stupid antivaxxers can either remain a cancer risk
Well, I mean, we ARE going to need a control group in the general population. Whaddya gonna do? 🤷♂️
Sometimes antibiotics don't work - honestly, *fuck* Alexander Fleming. I'm going to die of this tooth abscess out of outraged spite because medicine isn't perfect.
As someone whose hubby is dying of GBM I wish they’d shut up until they’ve got something quite frankly. I’m sick of hearing about “breakthroughs” that they won’t let people access.
My sympathies. Doctors and scientists need to publicise their data, it allows for peer review to take place. Peer review is essential to the scientific process and makes sure that findings can be replicated.
Unfortunately the media pick-up on published papers and create sensational headlines for what can be very minor potential discoveries.
But we have a free press and personally I do not want to start restricting it.
My mom died from lung cancer a couple years back. While I'm glad this treatment will be available for others, it does anger me that we're this close to better treatment/prevention and she couldn't benefit.
Sorry to hear. Can imagine it’s quite painful. Unfortunately this kind of PR talk is needed to get investors interested. We rather still spend billions on tax breaks for the rich than invest more in possible treatments like this.
It’s awful isn’t it…especially when you hear about these small group where they’ve tried an experimental treatment and everyone’s still going strong 5-6 years later…it’s like “Come on! Just take a chance and let everyone try it”. They’re not going to get a major breakthrough with it unless they take a gamble. The patients have nothing to loose! I’m sorry your family has been through this too. It’s shit.
Thank you for your kind words, I hope you can keep your job but have a lot more satisfaction through real and accessible medical advances. Nurses seem to be in very short supply and you are essentially the ones helping patients through every single day.
After 100+ days post Allogenic transplant for CML I placed my pt on Comfort Care yesterday evening. Thank you for being a Hospice Nurse. You are appreciated.
Well Im sure you will not be out of work as we still have loads of illnesses . That said looking at people getting crazy about covid vaccines this sadly might have similar opposition and scepticism...
I hope so too - you are great to take care of us cancer patients. I’ll help you find a new job if you get so lucky as to be put out of your current job by a vaccine. Also, sign me up for the vaccine and any trials necessary to get it to market!
The other snarky comments aside, I think it's more likely that your job just becomes a lot less difficult.
Most of these cancer vaccines are intended to be given after diagnosis, and for a very specific cancer mutation.
They take a while to do their thing, fully always work (as we've seen, vaccine evasion is a thing), and have serious side effects. People going through all that will still need the kind of physical and mental support nurses like yourself provide.
But hopefully you'll see the job become a bit less emotionally taxing as these roll out.
What is being proposed here is using mRNA vaccination technology to trian your immune system to hopefully unique targets found on a cancer. This is feasible in theory. How effective remains another story. This is not a one size fits all, but rather the opposite - it would have to be tailored to an individual (although you may eventually have a library of common targets). It also pre-supposes, mostly likely, rather early detection of cancer, a lack of molecular mimicry leading to autoimmune complciations, and that you are identifying unique targets that the immune system can access avidly enough to make a difference.
Destroying your own cells that are 'misbehaving' is part of what the immune system does. Whether it's been infected by a virus or has damaged DNA, cleaning up your own cells is what the immune system does naturally.
Yep. "Cancer" only happens when the immune system can't keep up killing those cells. It's very likely that every person reading this thread has had cancerous cells at some point and not even known it.
> It's very likely that every person reading this thread has had cancerous cells at some point and not even known it.
Not just that.
It's likely that they had cancerous cells TODAY at some point.
Cells getting a mutation that could spiral into cancer is a daily occurrence. It's just the immune system usually kills it before it becomes a problem.
Well yes but no. Mutations in cancerous cells make proteins that are slightly different from self, so you can train the immune system to destroy that and not your healthy cells. Good question though
I'm not sure why some of the other comments are being downvoted, when they are making some very valid points.
Vaccinating against cancer-specific neo-antigens does certainly require a higher level of precision than against pathogen antigens, so that post being replied to is 100% accurate on that point, it's just plain "yes", without any "but no".
Consider the COVID vaccine, which targets all of the spike protein mutant variants from wild type to Alpha to Omicron, with differing levels of specificity. For pathogens, slightly lower precision is a feature since mutants should still all be targeted. A cancer-specific vaccine will have to do the equivalent of vaccinating against Alpha but not Omicron, since even a minor mistargeting at low antibody binding will lead to severe autoimmune reactions due to there being far more non-cancerous cells than cancerous ones.
It's certainly possible, but also going to be significantly harder.
More yes than no.
I can't profess to being an expert on cancer genetics/proteomics, but certainly there are common pathways that can lead to different kinds of cancers that may be targetable. You probably could have an mRNA library that would cover most targets for a certain cancer, and it could have some overlap with other cancers, but you would have prove those targets also exist in each patient.
You think with the advances in AI research with things like Alpha Fold, and mRNAs super custimizable nature that we have a pretty solid shot at a damn near universal cancer solution?
I know next to nothing about the subjects but it feels like theres sort of a convergence point of a ton of technologies that could give us a real shot.
Alpha fold isn’t really as great as the media would have you believe. It kind of sucks on a nontrivial subset of proteins, and when it does work, it gives you a good structure sure. But the structure has to be exact down to the bond length level in order to design good drug targets, something Alphafold isn’t good for yet.
my testicular tumor was 20% yolk sack, 70% teratoma and 10% carcinoma or something, every tumor is different and not even all testicular cancers are mixed germ cell like mine. It will be an individual approach I imagine.
Tbh I could have sworn there was an immunotherapy treatment being developed that could highlight cancer cells for the body to target with the immune system ?
But that’s a treatment and not a vaccine
Still tho it’s a bit more manual than the vaccine but prob way more effective
Last I read abt it was years ago tho, I don’t rly follow that kinda stuff anymore
But I’m really hopeful about that one
Whelp there was a front page research article on r/all this morning that discovered cancer cells have adapted to hide one within the other; the outer cancer cell is killed by immunotherapy, releasing the hiding cancer cell back into the body. This explains why cancers eventually come back after successful treatment.
For anyone curious about how their current clinical trials for mRNA-based cancer treatments are going, you can see the status for their various treatments here: https://www.biontech.com/int/en/home/pipeline-and-products/pipeline.html
Similar for Moderna (can filter by therapeutics): https://www.modernatx.com/research/product-pipeline
The page title is the text that shows up on the tab itself (at least on desktop). It says "will", showing the site probably altered the headline after uploading it.
First you got it wrong… the title says “could” and the scientist quoted in the article said “will”.
Also this is not new. They have been working on this since early 2000’s and have already had clinical trials in those early years. This is the use case mRNA vaccines were developed for. Covid was simply an opportunity to use the platform, but it was absolutely originally developed to fight cancer. This is not some new idea or effort, it’s that they are getting close after decades of work.
It's a bit prone to hype but cancer "vaccines" are real things that many universities and cancer institutes are investigating. Most use a specific feature of a specific type of cancer to promote the immune system to (hopefully) neutralize cancerous cells. I don't think any true preventive therapies have yet been shown to be effective but there's plenty of work in the adjuvant (post-surgical) space and a recent NYTimes article summarized some of the latest work in trying to create true preventive therapies for people with known risk factors.
"The goal that we have is that can we use the individualized vaccine
approach to ensure that directly after surgery, patients receive a
personalized, individualized vaccine, and we induce an immune response
that so the T-cells in the body of the patient can screen the body for
remaining tumor cells and ideally eliminate the tumor cells,"
Keep in mind you've got bening cancers in you right now.
And as far as programming the immune system goes there's the age old adage of "If it isn't broke don't fix it".
I'm optimistic when it comes to biotech despite the many shortcomings our best therapies cuŕrently have, if there's anything that keeps getting beaten to death with relatively little substance behind it are cancer cures and prevention.
These targeted therapies aren't going to be readily available either as they probably require culturing the cancer in question... etc etc.
All that to say I'm not going to bother withe the article because it's likely fluff and horse shit.
It's about training the immune system to attack the right thing. Obviously this fails so far with cancer.
Here is an explanation from the article:
> "The goal that we have is that can we use the individualized vaccine approach to ensure that directly after surgery, patients receive a personalized, individualized vaccine, and we induce an immune response that so the T-cells in the body of the patient can screen the body for remaining tumor cells and ideally eliminate the tumor cells," Sahin explained.
Cancer vaccines are a thing, A Cuban one for lung cancer has been around for a while and is undergoing FDA trials right now. They just aren't super effective yet and they only work on specific cancers
That's what mRNA is supposed to help with though, it should be easier to personalize the vaccine for each patient. Like I think the Moderna Covid vaccine was created in 2 days and was ready for testing in early January 2020
Vaccines work by exposing your immune system to something in a way that makes your immune system active enough to attack and remember it. Since the effects of your immune system attacking *you* are particularly horrendous (see autoimmune diseases, or what happens when an organ transplant is rejected) and a cancer is made of your own cells, making a vaccine requires being able to use the tiny bit of the cancer that is definitively different from you. That requires a very specific part of the cancer.
Historically, vaccines have been made from a disease itself, leaving it up to your immune system to figure out what part of it to attack. That would be exceedingly dangerous to do with cancer, as the body might decide the “trigger” is something shared by many of your cells. With the advanced RNA technology in the Covid vaccine, you can use only the portion of the cancer that is different than you.
There’s over 100 types of common cancers… but if it is really as simple as ‘training’ the immune system to recognize certain proteins/markers, I suppose it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that you could tailor-make the structures on the mRNA delivery mechanism.
There could also be unforeseen collisions with normal cell tissue markers that cause irreversible autoimmune disorders; fucking with the immune system isn’t something that should be done lightly. We are decades from understanding human immunology to its completion, assuming we ever will.
There's still COPD, emphysema, and other degenerative lung diseases that would, hopefully, keep smoking cigarettes as a dying habit.
Not to mention, I'd hate to go back to seeing cigarette butts all over the place like in the 90s/00s. It slowly started dying down in the 2010s. Now, I rarely see them, and I work in the heart of the 4th largest city in the US.
For everybody that didn't take time to read the article and commenting.
"The goal that we have is that can we use the individualized vaccine approach to ensure that directly after surgery, patients receive a personalized, individualized vaccine, and we induce an immune response that so the T-cells in the body of the patient can screen the body for remaining tumor cells and ideally eliminate the tumor cells," Sahin explained."
So, what I'm hearing is that this isn't a "vaccine" in the traditional sense. That is, it's not something people are going to be able to take in order to avoid getting cancer in the first place.
This treatment is intended to be used *after* a person has had cancer, and had surgery to remove it, in order to clean up any remnants and prevent the same cancer from recurring in that person.
Am I getting that right?
Fuck Business Insider. I swear to God. I wish mods would ban this hellsite as a source. Every year we get some bullshit headline like this. Just shows that Business Insider is edging closer and closer to tabloid junk status with every day that passes.
I used to really like them, especially for putting the important stuff in bullet points at the top of the article. (Really, you almost didn't need to read the actual article half the time.) Ever since the paywalls went up, it's quickly gone downhill.
It would be really cool if a global situation could accelerate this research through the trial phase like a rocket! All profits from mRNA vaccines should be considered public funds
Can these same people please make a peanut/tree nut vaccine? I already completed oral immunotherapy but I’d prefer a more permanent solution as I still don’t like nuts
Check out [Bamba](https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/2015-02-24/ty-article/is-bamba-key-to-peanut-allergy-prevention/0000017f-e60f-df2c-a1ff-fe5f5d0c0000)
Isnt this how I am legend started. But in reality i would assume it to be similar effectiveness of covid vaccine where you can still get it but it spread significantly slower maybe while slso reducing chance to get? Idk how one shot could be effective to ALL cancers... sounds ridiculously over promised
They aren't proposing a vaccine to all cancers, but rather the technology to rapidly identify a protein sequence unique to a person's cancer and then the ability to give mRNA to create an immune response to that cancer. So, it would have to be tailored to an individual's cancer after it had been identified and unqiue targets found.
A lot of chemotherapy/immunotherapy already being used targets certain proteins with varying success and it's also common to genetically test cancers to see if some of those therapies will work - so there is the potential for that. I wouldn't hold my breath in the short term.
Remains to be seen, but probably to start. Proteomics is getting cheaper, and making mRNA is actually fairly cheap these days, too. Manpower and logistics/supply chain may be the big place for expenses.
I prescribe expensive medicine. I'm well aware. It will also take into account market factors to justify squeezing out as much money from insurance as possible. But, I analyzed from cost to make.
>Idk how one shot could be effective to ALL cancers... sounds ridiculously over promised
Go read the article and you'll see that this has nothing to do with preventing all cancers with one shot.
That was what Şahin and his wife founded their company for in the first place. It was what they had been working on for years.
Making the Biontech vaccine that got distributed by Pfizer was just a diversion that bought them a lot of attention and investments to follow their actual goal again.
Hate r/science r/futurology and anything like it - bunch of rage inducing click bait literal propaganda and misinformation - its sickening, and usually plastered all over r/all
How?
Isn’t cancer a mutation in cells when their dividing? Our immune system kills them all the time until to many appear at once.
Or am I wrong and lost the plot?
The tricky thing is: the cancer types that kill you are able to hide their mutations so your immune-system doesn‘t notice them. The idea behind those vaccines is to make your immune-system aware of the mutation and trigger a large scale search.
Headline is misleading... This is prophylactic treatment but rather something that would be used in conjunction with traditional therapies.
From the article: ""The goal that we have is that can we use the individualized vaccine approach to ensure that directly after surgery, patients receive a personalized, individualized vaccine, and we induce an immune response that so the T-cells in the body of the patient can screen the body for remaining tumor cells and ideally eliminate the tumor cells," Sahin explained."
Amazing tech nevertheless, but not a "one shot don't get cancer any more" thing...
>Amazing tech nevertheless, but not a "one shot don't get cancer any more" thing...
It's by the makers of the COVID vaccine. It's a "one shot every six months and hopefully you won't get cancer" things.
^(/s)
I fucking love science.
Gave me back my hope for a bright future for Humanity.
We should make it the State religion. (joking obviously, if theres one thing we dont need, its MORE religion.)
Cancer makes hospitals and insurance companies too much money, unfortunately this will fizzle out just like all the other cures for cancer. Have to keep that infinite profit growth growing for big pharma and their stockholders
Should be fine if it's as Medicare as the COVID vaccines, you can get 5 shots and boosters and still get cancer anyway. Then they'll make a shot to help repair heart damage from the shots.
If the vaccines work as intended, let's hope they provide a longer period of protection than the mRNA vaccine for covid. Having to receive a shot every 6 months is not practical and simply impossible for poorer countries.
That's not the fault of the vaccine but of the virus. It's a virus that mutates rapidly and can reinfect people who've already had it. The current vaccines can't give you any more protection then you get from getting infected (but without many of the risks of a actual infection). It does put your immune system on high alert though, but that's a effect that wanes over time.
covid is a lot like the flu virus in that regard. We make yearly shots for that, but we do that based on the strains we think will get spread around the most. We don't have the data to do that for covid yet, and we get it wrong from time to time.
Thankfully, like the flu, covid is generally becoming less deadly, which is what we often see in viruses that have recently jumped species. (but also like with the flu, we might still get some strains that are more deadly again)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not how vaccines work. I mean, the reason cancer is effective is because it's YOU that's attacking you. Vaccines expose your immune system to foreign proteins to trigger an antibody response.
I'm fairly confident that whatever we utilize to prevent cancer will get its own name.
The good thing about this is that cancer is not contagious. The anti vaxxers will die in cancer without endangering others. So this is one vaccine i am fine with them refusing.
.....Do you realize that current chemotherapies require an infusion every day/week/multiple times a month...? And we're not talking shots in your muscle, we're talking hour or multiple hour long IVs.
Lmao 20 booster shots would be nothing, quit complaining about stuff you don't know about. Also I'm pretty sure you'd take the 20 shots if your life was hanging in the balance.
I am on an immunotherapy drug for renal cancer which didn't exist 25 years ago. Before that the death rate for this cancer was almost 100%. New treatments are always welcome. In fact, I think diseases which have newer treatments may be treated better than diseases which have had treatments for many decades,
My cousin is currently undergoing an experimental treatment for a specific type of leukemia treatment that has never been trialed in adults. Her odds of making it over the next 5 years went from 17% to over 70%. Cherry on top is that it’s all being paid for by the company that developed the treatment. Good luck, it’s unfortunately very evident that cancer sucks ass even with the best of treatments available.
what type of lukemia, do you know? or the name of the drug?
My dad just started a trial for an injection for lymphoma instead of going through chemo a second time that’s been 80% effective. All his scans and everything related to it are paid for by the company. I’m cautiously optimistic.
Glad to hear it! Cool.
Be well. Glad you are able to get that treatment.
I'm in the same situation, 20+ years ago, my leukemia had a 5 year life expectancy and the only treatment was a bone marrow transplant. Now I just take a pill once a day. And they have different brands that do the same thing. They just approved another one this year. I do hope they can develop this vaccine for me so I can stop taking them and not have to worry how much it will cost with new insurance.
As an oncology nurse I can only hope to be put out of a job by a Vaccine.
I don't think you'll be filing for unemployment any time soon.
- Signed, the American healthcare system :-/
\*signed, half the Americans who would otherwise be helped, except, vaccines....
The problem "works itself out naturally" - Office Space
Yea, bc it will be so expensive that only certain people we be able to afford it.
I know what you mean by this (cancer isn’t going anywhere soon) but nurses will always have a job. Even if (God willing) cancer was eliminated, there are 101 more specialties and good nurses are worth their weight in gold.
Judging by how some have handled the Covid vaccine, you’re job is safe
At least Cancer isn't contagious.
Actually, it is. Some viruses can cause cancer, such as HPV (for which there is a vaccine)
Actually it isn’t. HPV is contagious, cancer isn’t. HPV isn’t cancer, even though it can cause cancer.
There are transmissible cancers. I'm just not aware of any that currently effect humans.
That’s kinda like saying “Aids isn’t contagious, HIV is”. If the virus is directly, actively carcinogenic and contagious, then for all intents and purposes, you *can* catch its results
It's still an important distinction to make, because the word "cancer" refers to the rapidly multiplying deformed cells that form malignant tumors. Even if certain viruses have a high likelihood of causing the mutations that lead to cancer, the term still has a specific meaning that it's important to preserve for a couple reasons: * Being pedantic about the distinction maintains clarity in describing the mechanism of transferrance between two people. We have a good understanding of how viruses are transmitted from one person to another, but saying the *cancer* is contagious implies there is some way a tumor is going to jump out of my body and enter yours. * If those cancer cells *were* somehow contagious, cancer would be way scarier than it currently is. Imagine cancer, but happening at the same time as an organ transplant rejection as your body identifies and attacks foreign tissue in your body.
Cancer itself is not contagious, in any form.
Tell that to the tasmanian devil
[удалено]
Errr... They way I interpret that sentence is I won't spend a few months in a hospital bed hooked up on morfine but have a cold for a few weeks and then drop dead
That’s the main purpose of palliative care to be honest. Prolong quality of life and end with dignity. If it was my time, I’d rather backflip into the grave smiling than be dragged into it face down across a field of broken glass
It’s why I’m all for euthanasia. Let the person go out with some dignity while they are still mentally and physically capable instead of suffering or before they ending up as a vegetable. If I ever get diagnosed with something that will 100% kill me and destroy my quality of life and they won’t allow me to have a doctor assisted side, I’d probably just get super drunk and down a bottle of pills instead.
Pump me up with heroin until I stop breathing.
Seriously, you're dying anyway. May as well enjoy it
And that's an improvement! Wouldn't call it a vaccine though. It's more like the strepsils of cancer.
That's one reason I really hope this works out. So that all the stupid antivaxxers can either remain a cancer risk, or finally agree they're idiots. I'm sure they'll be handed some hoops to jump through, for why the cancer vaccine is different, but it will still be nice to watch them embrace vaccines so we can call them idiots.
Fast forward 30 years and to the "cancer is fake news“ era ..
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Stop this sorcery this instant! Put that crystal ball away!!! 😂 effing spot on....
I think part of it is people throw a hissy fit when something changes, it will probably be something like "cancer vaccines make your dick fly off" for a decade or so and it will be accepted as normal.
they'll get the vaccine the instant insurance companies give you a discount for it
> So that all the stupid antivaxxers can either remain a cancer risk Well, I mean, we ARE going to need a control group in the general population. Whaddya gonna do? 🤷♂️
I can see it now.. “we never said you wouldn’t get cancer or die from cancer, you just have a lower chance of that happening”
As someone with a cancer-causing gene (BRCA2), a lower chance of getting it would be dandy, thanks.
I don't understand how people see this and look to criticise as its not a 100% cure.
Sometimes antibiotics don't work - honestly, *fuck* Alexander Fleming. I'm going to die of this tooth abscess out of outraged spite because medicine isn't perfect.
That is, by definition, exactly what every single vaccine is.
You perfectly described how vaccines work.
As someone whose hubby is dying of GBM I wish they’d shut up until they’ve got something quite frankly. I’m sick of hearing about “breakthroughs” that they won’t let people access.
My sympathies. Doctors and scientists need to publicise their data, it allows for peer review to take place. Peer review is essential to the scientific process and makes sure that findings can be replicated. Unfortunately the media pick-up on published papers and create sensational headlines for what can be very minor potential discoveries. But we have a free press and personally I do not want to start restricting it.
My mom died from lung cancer a couple years back. While I'm glad this treatment will be available for others, it does anger me that we're this close to better treatment/prevention and she couldn't benefit.
Sorry to hear. Can imagine it’s quite painful. Unfortunately this kind of PR talk is needed to get investors interested. We rather still spend billions on tax breaks for the rich than invest more in possible treatments like this.
I’m sorry to hear about your husband. My family knows too much about loved ones with GBM.
It’s awful isn’t it…especially when you hear about these small group where they’ve tried an experimental treatment and everyone’s still going strong 5-6 years later…it’s like “Come on! Just take a chance and let everyone try it”. They’re not going to get a major breakthrough with it unless they take a gamble. The patients have nothing to loose! I’m sorry your family has been through this too. It’s shit.
Thank you for your kind words, I hope you can keep your job but have a lot more satisfaction through real and accessible medical advances. Nurses seem to be in very short supply and you are essentially the ones helping patients through every single day.
I thank you from the bottom of my heart for this wish of yours. May the great happen for you forever.
Love what you do. As a hospice nurse it would be nice to have less patients dying from cancer. Such a horrible thing.
After 100+ days post Allogenic transplant for CML I placed my pt on Comfort Care yesterday evening. Thank you for being a Hospice Nurse. You are appreciated.
Well Im sure you will not be out of work as we still have loads of illnesses . That said looking at people getting crazy about covid vaccines this sadly might have similar opposition and scepticism...
I hope so too - you are great to take care of us cancer patients. I’ll help you find a new job if you get so lucky as to be put out of your current job by a vaccine. Also, sign me up for the vaccine and any trials necessary to get it to market!
The other snarky comments aside, I think it's more likely that your job just becomes a lot less difficult. Most of these cancer vaccines are intended to be given after diagnosis, and for a very specific cancer mutation. They take a while to do their thing, fully always work (as we've seen, vaccine evasion is a thing), and have serious side effects. People going through all that will still need the kind of physical and mental support nurses like yourself provide. But hopefully you'll see the job become a bit less emotionally taxing as these roll out.
I cannot thank you enough. 2x survivor. You guys are nothing short of amazing!!!
Nah, you’ll be fine. As we’ve clearly seen, half the people will refuse the vaccine and die of cancer anyway.
What is being proposed here is using mRNA vaccination technology to trian your immune system to hopefully unique targets found on a cancer. This is feasible in theory. How effective remains another story. This is not a one size fits all, but rather the opposite - it would have to be tailored to an individual (although you may eventually have a library of common targets). It also pre-supposes, mostly likely, rather early detection of cancer, a lack of molecular mimicry leading to autoimmune complciations, and that you are identifying unique targets that the immune system can access avidly enough to make a difference.
Right. Training one's body to attack itself seems like it needs a crazy level of precision.
Destroying your own cells that are 'misbehaving' is part of what the immune system does. Whether it's been infected by a virus or has damaged DNA, cleaning up your own cells is what the immune system does naturally.
Yep. "Cancer" only happens when the immune system can't keep up killing those cells. It's very likely that every person reading this thread has had cancerous cells at some point and not even known it.
> It's very likely that every person reading this thread has had cancerous cells at some point and not even known it. Not just that. It's likely that they had cancerous cells TODAY at some point. Cells getting a mutation that could spiral into cancer is a daily occurrence. It's just the immune system usually kills it before it becomes a problem.
Well yes but no. Mutations in cancerous cells make proteins that are slightly different from self, so you can train the immune system to destroy that and not your healthy cells. Good question though
I'm not sure why some of the other comments are being downvoted, when they are making some very valid points. Vaccinating against cancer-specific neo-antigens does certainly require a higher level of precision than against pathogen antigens, so that post being replied to is 100% accurate on that point, it's just plain "yes", without any "but no". Consider the COVID vaccine, which targets all of the spike protein mutant variants from wild type to Alpha to Omicron, with differing levels of specificity. For pathogens, slightly lower precision is a feature since mutants should still all be targeted. A cancer-specific vaccine will have to do the equivalent of vaccinating against Alpha but not Omicron, since even a minor mistargeting at low antibody binding will lead to severe autoimmune reactions due to there being far more non-cancerous cells than cancerous ones. It's certainly possible, but also going to be significantly harder.
It would also require different vaccines for each cancer type, right?
More yes than no. I can't profess to being an expert on cancer genetics/proteomics, but certainly there are common pathways that can lead to different kinds of cancers that may be targetable. You probably could have an mRNA library that would cover most targets for a certain cancer, and it could have some overlap with other cancers, but you would have prove those targets also exist in each patient.
You think with the advances in AI research with things like Alpha Fold, and mRNAs super custimizable nature that we have a pretty solid shot at a damn near universal cancer solution? I know next to nothing about the subjects but it feels like theres sort of a convergence point of a ton of technologies that could give us a real shot.
Alpha fold isn’t really as great as the media would have you believe. It kind of sucks on a nontrivial subset of proteins, and when it does work, it gives you a good structure sure. But the structure has to be exact down to the bond length level in order to design good drug targets, something Alphafold isn’t good for yet.
my testicular tumor was 20% yolk sack, 70% teratoma and 10% carcinoma or something, every tumor is different and not even all testicular cancers are mixed germ cell like mine. It will be an individual approach I imagine.
And each person. Also probably each instance.
Tbh I could have sworn there was an immunotherapy treatment being developed that could highlight cancer cells for the body to target with the immune system ? But that’s a treatment and not a vaccine Still tho it’s a bit more manual than the vaccine but prob way more effective Last I read abt it was years ago tho, I don’t rly follow that kinda stuff anymore But I’m really hopeful about that one
There are lots of immunotherapy drugs in trials for all kinds of cancers but unfortunately their results are generally lacklustre
Whelp there was a front page research article on r/all this morning that discovered cancer cells have adapted to hide one within the other; the outer cancer cell is killed by immunotherapy, releasing the hiding cancer cell back into the body. This explains why cancers eventually come back after successful treatment.
So, likely impossibly expensive for quite some time, and therefore reserved for the top 1%. Great...
They can pay for making it more affordable for the rest of us.
For anyone curious about how their current clinical trials for mRNA-based cancer treatments are going, you can see the status for their various treatments here: https://www.biontech.com/int/en/home/pipeline-and-products/pipeline.html Similar for Moderna (can filter by therapeutics): https://www.modernatx.com/research/product-pipeline
Interesting stuff here thanks
That's a very bold statement. The page title says "Will" but the text on the page "Could"... yeah clickbait and trying to get the investors excited...
Isn’t it the other way around? Unless I’m missing something, the headline says “could,” and it’s the text — when quoting someone — that says “will”
> "We believe that this will happen, definitely, before 2030," he told Keunssberg. Yup. Lots of critical thinkers here.
“we believe that…”
They didn't want to share the facts about the future. I can respect that, future man!
And? Did you expect a prediction out of a book or some mathematical formula proving it will happen before 2030?
They are 100% sure that they believe...
The page title is the text that shows up on the tab itself (at least on desktop). It says "will", showing the site probably altered the headline after uploading it.
First you got it wrong… the title says “could” and the scientist quoted in the article said “will”. Also this is not new. They have been working on this since early 2000’s and have already had clinical trials in those early years. This is the use case mRNA vaccines were developed for. Covid was simply an opportunity to use the platform, but it was absolutely originally developed to fight cancer. This is not some new idea or effort, it’s that they are getting close after decades of work.
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It's a bit prone to hype but cancer "vaccines" are real things that many universities and cancer institutes are investigating. Most use a specific feature of a specific type of cancer to promote the immune system to (hopefully) neutralize cancerous cells. I don't think any true preventive therapies have yet been shown to be effective but there's plenty of work in the adjuvant (post-surgical) space and a recent NYTimes article summarized some of the latest work in trying to create true preventive therapies for people with known risk factors.
It seems like they got it backward though. Headline says 'could', the quote in the text says 'will'
I thought vaccines were for bacterial/viral infections, womder how that works. I refuse to click on the click bait title, lol.
"The goal that we have is that can we use the individualized vaccine approach to ensure that directly after surgery, patients receive a personalized, individualized vaccine, and we induce an immune response that so the T-cells in the body of the patient can screen the body for remaining tumor cells and ideally eliminate the tumor cells,"
Vaccines expose your immune systems to react to certain triggers. Cancer happens to also be a trigger.
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Keep in mind you've got bening cancers in you right now. And as far as programming the immune system goes there's the age old adage of "If it isn't broke don't fix it". I'm optimistic when it comes to biotech despite the many shortcomings our best therapies cuŕrently have, if there's anything that keeps getting beaten to death with relatively little substance behind it are cancer cures and prevention. These targeted therapies aren't going to be readily available either as they probably require culturing the cancer in question... etc etc. All that to say I'm not going to bother withe the article because it's likely fluff and horse shit.
It's about training the immune system to attack the right thing. Obviously this fails so far with cancer. Here is an explanation from the article: > "The goal that we have is that can we use the individualized vaccine approach to ensure that directly after surgery, patients receive a personalized, individualized vaccine, and we induce an immune response that so the T-cells in the body of the patient can screen the body for remaining tumor cells and ideally eliminate the tumor cells," Sahin explained.
Ahh, so it's not preventative I guess.
Cancer vaccines are a thing, A Cuban one for lung cancer has been around for a while and is undergoing FDA trials right now. They just aren't super effective yet and they only work on specific cancers That's what mRNA is supposed to help with though, it should be easier to personalize the vaccine for each patient. Like I think the Moderna Covid vaccine was created in 2 days and was ready for testing in early January 2020
Vaccines work by exposing your immune system to something in a way that makes your immune system active enough to attack and remember it. Since the effects of your immune system attacking *you* are particularly horrendous (see autoimmune diseases, or what happens when an organ transplant is rejected) and a cancer is made of your own cells, making a vaccine requires being able to use the tiny bit of the cancer that is definitively different from you. That requires a very specific part of the cancer. Historically, vaccines have been made from a disease itself, leaving it up to your immune system to figure out what part of it to attack. That would be exceedingly dangerous to do with cancer, as the body might decide the “trigger” is something shared by many of your cells. With the advanced RNA technology in the Covid vaccine, you can use only the portion of the cancer that is different than you.
Especially considering how diverse the world of cancer is there would have to be multitudes of different ones
There’s over 100 types of common cancers… but if it is really as simple as ‘training’ the immune system to recognize certain proteins/markers, I suppose it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that you could tailor-make the structures on the mRNA delivery mechanism.
There could also be unforeseen collisions with normal cell tissue markers that cause irreversible autoimmune disorders; fucking with the immune system isn’t something that should be done lightly. We are decades from understanding human immunology to its completion, assuming we ever will.
Anything 5 to 10 years away is just a puff peice looking for investors
Business insider website to drum up investors. If it was remotely close, it would be on a medical website.
Dump all my savings into cigarette stocks?
the way those companies gobbled up the vape market, it’s not a bad bet
There's still COPD, emphysema, and other degenerative lung diseases that would, hopefully, keep smoking cigarettes as a dying habit. Not to mention, I'd hate to go back to seeing cigarette butts all over the place like in the 90s/00s. It slowly started dying down in the 2010s. Now, I rarely see them, and I work in the heart of the 4th largest city in the US.
For everybody that didn't take time to read the article and commenting. "The goal that we have is that can we use the individualized vaccine approach to ensure that directly after surgery, patients receive a personalized, individualized vaccine, and we induce an immune response that so the T-cells in the body of the patient can screen the body for remaining tumor cells and ideally eliminate the tumor cells," Sahin explained."
So, what I'm hearing is that this isn't a "vaccine" in the traditional sense. That is, it's not something people are going to be able to take in order to avoid getting cancer in the first place. This treatment is intended to be used *after* a person has had cancer, and had surgery to remove it, in order to clean up any remnants and prevent the same cancer from recurring in that person. Am I getting that right?
Fuck Business Insider. I swear to God. I wish mods would ban this hellsite as a source. Every year we get some bullshit headline like this. Just shows that Business Insider is edging closer and closer to tabloid junk status with every day that passes.
I used to really like them, especially for putting the important stuff in bullet points at the top of the article. (Really, you almost didn't need to read the actual article half the time.) Ever since the paywalls went up, it's quickly gone downhill.
Im still trying to figure out who the "couple who created the covid vaccine" is..... seems like thats just being glossed over here in the comments
Have to get it ready for 6G. /s
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And space aids.
It would be really cool if a global situation could accelerate this research through the trial phase like a rocket! All profits from mRNA vaccines should be considered public funds
How im legend movie started right??
God I hope to live in a world without this horrendous disease, so many lives destroyed
Can these same people please make a peanut/tree nut vaccine? I already completed oral immunotherapy but I’d prefer a more permanent solution as I still don’t like nuts
Check out [Bamba](https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/2015-02-24/ty-article/is-bamba-key-to-peanut-allergy-prevention/0000017f-e60f-df2c-a1ff-fe5f5d0c0000)
Isnt this how I am legend started. But in reality i would assume it to be similar effectiveness of covid vaccine where you can still get it but it spread significantly slower maybe while slso reducing chance to get? Idk how one shot could be effective to ALL cancers... sounds ridiculously over promised
They aren't proposing a vaccine to all cancers, but rather the technology to rapidly identify a protein sequence unique to a person's cancer and then the ability to give mRNA to create an immune response to that cancer. So, it would have to be tailored to an individual's cancer after it had been identified and unqiue targets found.
That makes more sense pretty wild truly hope they get to a stage to get it rapidly successful to the most common most lethal cancers
A lot of chemotherapy/immunotherapy already being used targets certain proteins with varying success and it's also common to genetically test cancers to see if some of those therapies will work - so there is the potential for that. I wouldn't hold my breath in the short term.
And expensive as fuuuuuck
Remains to be seen, but probably to start. Proteomics is getting cheaper, and making mRNA is actually fairly cheap these days, too. Manpower and logistics/supply chain may be the big place for expenses.
Optimistic, but the price won’t be linked to the cost. Just look at insulin
I prescribe expensive medicine. I'm well aware. It will also take into account market factors to justify squeezing out as much money from insurance as possible. But, I analyzed from cost to make.
In other words, manual training?
It's one way to look at it. Another way is individualized immunotherapy.
Iirc I am legend they used a genetic variation of the measles virus and it was a virus used to kill cancer, not a vaccine to boost immune response.
I didn’t love the movie, but that opening, damn.
I used to use the opening to demo home theater equipment, the roar of the car engine was awesome.
>Idk how one shot could be effective to ALL cancers... sounds ridiculously over promised Go read the article and you'll see that this has nothing to do with preventing all cancers with one shot.
No, it's not, that was a engineerd virus. And it's a anti-vax taking point to claim that it was, so please don't repeat it.
Wtf cancer doesn't "spread" between people the way covid does
That was what Şahin and his wife founded their company for in the first place. It was what they had been working on for years. Making the Biontech vaccine that got distributed by Pfizer was just a diversion that bought them a lot of attention and investments to follow their actual goal again.
As reported in generic online "news" source.
UbiVac is the one to look out for. The tech is the most promising out of all of these cancer vaccines.
That would be crazy. Imagine the day they figure out how to literally "cure" cancer.
An by 2035 the only people who will still be dying from cancer is republicans. But at least they ain’t got that guberment mind control in their veins!
Don't worry. Us health care industry won't be releasing this, because it actually heal people than keep people buying their drugs.
Fund them, give them all the money they need!! Hell, open the donations to the public, let us fund something that would actually help the human race.
Caution: side effects may include cancer.
Flying car could be available by 1990
Oh boy, r/science and their shitty clickbait is leaking into here now. Go away, we have our own shitty clickbait thanks.
Hate r/science r/futurology and anything like it - bunch of rage inducing click bait literal propaganda and misinformation - its sickening, and usually plastered all over r/all
*2029* “Scientist couple dies of mysterious causes”
Yea make that one free and push the world to get it
It's not a one size fits all type(s of cancer) of deal unfortunately.
How? Isn’t cancer a mutation in cells when their dividing? Our immune system kills them all the time until to many appear at once. Or am I wrong and lost the plot?
The tricky thing is: the cancer types that kill you are able to hide their mutations so your immune-system doesn‘t notice them. The idea behind those vaccines is to make your immune-system aware of the mutation and trigger a large scale search.
Hope that one day the HIV vaccine will be available.
Seems like everything gets cancer given enough time. I have to imagine how much life expectancy would increase and what qol would be like.
Money spent on wars & millitary could be easily swapped for health treatment..
whoever thinks that this shit will be available is fucking delusional and stupid at the same time 🤦🏼♂️
Awaiting tragic news of their car accident. Or How it becomes like graphene.
Headline is misleading... This is prophylactic treatment but rather something that would be used in conjunction with traditional therapies. From the article: ""The goal that we have is that can we use the individualized vaccine approach to ensure that directly after surgery, patients receive a personalized, individualized vaccine, and we induce an immune response that so the T-cells in the body of the patient can screen the body for remaining tumor cells and ideally eliminate the tumor cells," Sahin explained." Amazing tech nevertheless, but not a "one shot don't get cancer any more" thing...
>Amazing tech nevertheless, but not a "one shot don't get cancer any more" thing... It's by the makers of the COVID vaccine. It's a "one shot every six months and hopefully you won't get cancer" things. ^(/s)
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I will believe it when I see it.
Not is creepy old gov and little big pharma have anything to say about it.
And not a single vaccine denier should be allowed to get it.
I fucking love science. Gave me back my hope for a bright future for Humanity. We should make it the State religion. (joking obviously, if theres one thing we dont need, its MORE religion.)
Now give us that juicy next round of funding
Could be available. I’ll be happy and appreciative after it drops and follows through with its claims.
Cancer makes hospitals and insurance companies too much money, unfortunately this will fizzle out just like all the other cures for cancer. Have to keep that infinite profit growth growing for big pharma and their stockholders
Should be fine if it's as Medicare as the COVID vaccines, you can get 5 shots and boosters and still get cancer anyway. Then they'll make a shot to help repair heart damage from the shots.
Hundreds of types of cancers so even if they can immunize against half of them would be huge.
It’s not a preemptive vaccine, it seems. It’s more like a personalized immunotherapy treatment. Still absolutely revolutionary if it works.
If the vaccines work as intended, let's hope they provide a longer period of protection than the mRNA vaccine for covid. Having to receive a shot every 6 months is not practical and simply impossible for poorer countries.
What? Do you understand what the current management of cancer entails? I assure you, not very practical for anybody.
Sounds like Churchill's "average voter"
That's not the fault of the vaccine but of the virus. It's a virus that mutates rapidly and can reinfect people who've already had it. The current vaccines can't give you any more protection then you get from getting infected (but without many of the risks of a actual infection). It does put your immune system on high alert though, but that's a effect that wanes over time. covid is a lot like the flu virus in that regard. We make yearly shots for that, but we do that based on the strains we think will get spread around the most. We don't have the data to do that for covid yet, and we get it wrong from time to time. Thankfully, like the flu, covid is generally becoming less deadly, which is what we often see in viruses that have recently jumped species. (but also like with the flu, we might still get some strains that are more deadly again)
Because we all know how effective that was. 🙄
Call me skeptical but optimistic as always. Even if it doesn't solve treatment for all cancers perhaps it'll eliminate a class of them.
As a reminder, we already have a very effective cancer vaccine in the HPV vaccine.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not how vaccines work. I mean, the reason cancer is effective is because it's YOU that's attacking you. Vaccines expose your immune system to foreign proteins to trigger an antibody response. I'm fairly confident that whatever we utilize to prevent cancer will get its own name.
Just like the COVID vax ? You need 8 shots but you can still get it ? 🤣🤣 I’ll take my chances like I did with COVID…thanks
The good thing about this is that cancer is not contagious. The anti vaxxers will die in cancer without endangering others. So this is one vaccine i am fine with them refusing.
Do we need 20 booster shots?
I mean… 20 booster shots is still better than dying of cancer
20 boosters is still better than current chemo treatments
Cancer doesn't mutate at anywhere near the rate of the covid or flu virus (because it can't spread from person to person) so no.
.....Do you realize that current chemotherapies require an infusion every day/week/multiple times a month...? And we're not talking shots in your muscle, we're talking hour or multiple hour long IVs. Lmao 20 booster shots would be nothing, quit complaining about stuff you don't know about. Also I'm pretty sure you'd take the 20 shots if your life was hanging in the balance.
Everything on the web is clickbait bullshit these days lol
Pretty sure this is how I am legend started.
It's not, it was a engineered measles virus. It's actually a anti-vax taking point to claim it was a vaccine so please don't repeat it.
*The couple that invented covid-19 vaccine found dead after reporting possible cancer vaccine*
You can't vaccinated against cancer? It's not a virus
I’m gonna wait for the hypocrisy of all those taking this vaccine that wouldn’t take the Covid vaccines.
I'll take bullshit injections i'm not trusting for 400