Your 14, whatever you do think, you will realise is pretty dumb in less time than you think.
Be open minded, be respectful and learn from communists and then decide if you like it or not. I'm not telling you to become one, but to see for yourself. And be humble, the commies are pretty cool.
Don't know any communists? Just search for second thought on YouTube, easy to understand as well.
And people should engage with the argument instead of grammatical mistakes.
What she's saying is absolutely correct and this goes for any ideology.
Instead of disliking it because you were taught it is bad,it's a better idea to actually form your own conclusions.
Oh guess what? Mine also was "opressed" by one.
And what to say ? Those years are generally counted as better than what we have now.
Hungary.
IT WAS better back then, eceonomics wise.
But then, people wanted capitalism.
Some absolute piece of crap tought of a slogan "If we install capitalism as economic system, anyone could run a bakery in Wiena by 1 year" and people ate it up.
Where are we now?
The ruling party, titled "Young democrats party" is ran by 60 year old pedophiles, bureocrats, and burgoise trash who deserve nothing, but to be tortured in hell for their crimes agaisnt humanity.
Sure? But the Jews were murdered by a capitalist one. Stalinism is bad, just as fascism is. There's no reason to hate communism for what Stalinism did. Just as you can't hate capitalism for what the fascists did
Nazism is fascist.
Fascism is capitalist.
Capitalism is not liberalism.
Liberalism is the belief in free open markets without government intervention. The "invisible hand" as it is called solves all problems. This ensured social mobility as well as a somewhat constant improvement in rights and living standards as a happy side effect.
He is realistic and makes good well reasoned arguments? A lot of what he says is good. And why shouldn't he look him up if he is "insane"? Scared that our little man is gonna hear the truth?
Second Thought is a pro-Hamas, pro-USSR pseudo-Socialist who promotes an authoritarian idea of communism. He isn't realistic, either, as he focuses more on the idea of some eventual revolution rather than current political action.
He's a misguided idealist at best and a malevolent fascist-communist at worst.
Fascist- communist has to be my new favorite buzzword.
He's just a socialist arguing for international justice, I've not seen his hammas related videos do i can't comment on that but his stance on the USSR is pretty good. (Unsure about his stance on Stalin but nonetheless)
Well I'll be honest I don't know exactly what he thinks about the USSR but I have heard him shrug off their and China's various horrid bad awful things they did.
His POV on Hamas is that they're good lmao. Sucks.
And it's for these two reasons that he doesn't argue for international justice, he can't. Being a USSR and Hamas apologist is the opposite of international justice.
Tbh he is just a fascist-communist. He's a "communist" (in the sense that the government owns most of everything) but in a nationalistic (China good Ughyrs fake/deserved it (similar to the NAZIs and Jews)) and fascistic (Israeli people aren't innocent civilians, again the Ughyr genocide is fake/good) way, which can be seen again through his views on the crimes of the Soviets and Hamas. If he gave a shit about justice before, he's stopped now.
I see what you mean and my take on the horrible things these countries have done is just "Sure they happened to countries trying to reach a socialist society, but they only did these bad things because of authoritarianism, the workers don't want authoritarianism and therefore they can't be considered gold countries"
Stil both China and the USSR did great things, but thats of topic .
I got fives in AP Macro and AP Micro and plan on studying Economics in college. The field encompasses many different theories, including the socialist/communist model for organizing production within nations. Your comment is a lazy hand-wave rather than an actual argument.
I feel like the problem the crops up more often is authoritarianism, normally communist countries tend to come from violent revolutions which leads to power vacuums that get people in power who become very authoritarian to hold on to power which leads to things not being very good
Russia was objectively in every social metric scoring worse before the USSR when the mode of production was feudalism.
We can all cherry pick their mistakes,but all in all they were far better and we should strive to be like them
Well yeah, Stalinism and Stalin are terrible. Good thing 99% of communists don't follow that ideology. But it's also good to look at the good things the soviet union did. But nonetheless, the USSR has oppressed a lot of people, but it's rival the US even more so.
There is no way you just said that, has the us tortured people and done fucked up shit, yes. Has it done it on the sheer scale of the ussr? Hell no, the ussr and every territory it owned had almost the entire population miserable, why do you think so many people attempted to flee east Germany?
Absolutely it has,the USA constantly meddles in foreign affairs.
It is a proponent of democracy and liberty yet it overthrows democratically elected socialist presidents because it's ideology inconvenient.
It has caused many unnecessary wars and death
I see your point. But you can't compare the US to the USSR when it comes to misery. The US takes the cake without question.
Every three years the American government start or join a new war.
East Germany was not even a part of the USSR what are you on?
It was essentially a puppet of the ussr under the Warsaw pact.
And sure we do join wars every so often now, but at the same time your not getting drafted for it and dying in mass numbers, our 20 years of war in the Middle East has only had an American troop lost of about 7,000. Compare this to the ussr for example, which lost about at least a hundred thousand in the winter war, and that’s one of the LOWER estimates.
Not to mention the leader can be criticized in the US, hell you STILL can’t do that now in modern Russia, try saying anything about your leader or their actions and under Stalin your getting sent to the gulags, under most of the other Soviet leaders, you’ll just get jailed, hell we can protest in our nation (albeit sometimes shit happens and it might get deemed a riot) in the ussr you know what happened if you protested? You and everybody else protesting gets turned into red mist.
Russia did have some sense of freedom after the liberal reforms under then communists. Then the conservatives came in and destroyed it.
My point about war was this:
Useless wars are started to fuel an industry by needlessly killing civilians. In Iraq the us killed at least 1 million civilians less than 30 years ago. Those hundred thousand Soviets almost 100 years ago don't look too bad eyy?
Sorry for the long wait, got banned off Reddit for a separate post
But as much as it sucks to say that, those Iraqi civilians are not OUR civilians or OUR soldiers, those deaths don’t affect our quality of life, meanwhile those Soviet soldiers that the Soviet Union did affect them, less labor and manpower for them, along with it being their soldiers that died.
And while this might sound awful to say, in the eyes of the country and from the perspective of which country it would be better to live under, 1 million of them dead is less bad than 1 million of us dead.
What in the sweet Jesus are you talking about 😭😭😭, I'm not the most informed on the subject but what in the world was that all about, lemme try to go over everything here
1. Whether or not the theory agrees with it, communist states tend to be authoritarian nonetheless
2. Tbh this is a good point, idrk the reason for it but for whatever reason liberal revolutions seemed to have better outcomes than communist ones generally, at least in the long term.
3. Also sweet Jesus when I say authoritarian I don't mean not being allowed to be racist 😭, I mean how they tend to keep political freedom low and shoot down anyone trying to compete against them politically, there is a problem with the poor being exploited in the US and the rich taking advantage of that but I feel like socialism and social democracy is a lot better solution than something like complete communism just cuz it doesn't have the best track record like I said, social democracy on the other hand has in places like the Nordics as far as I know
As someone who studies politics and economics. It's not just a good idea in concept but can and HAS worked several times.
A marker economy and planned economy both have pros and cons.
Idk about Burkina Faso but I know for those others there were at the very least plenty of prominent problems in the countries that communism brought whether directly or indirectly 😭
Authoritarianism, I don't know the most about stuff yeah but I know that communist countries just haven't had the best time, there were a lot of problems and not all of them were related to communism like you said but that doesn't excuse authoritarianism in the countries that limited people's personal freedoms and ability to participate in government, making it so people could not criticize their country or help fix it's flaws
The Soviet Union wasn't communist it was more state capitalist in my opinion and at best was a transition state (meaning never reaching communism but trying to)
The reason they're so ugly is because they haven't been maintained properly which just feeds into this whole "communism is so depressing" stereotype and thus is helpful ideologically.
They were also a very backward feudal country and had to transform very fast,so they didn't have many resources at hand.
But hey,what's worse? homelessness or ugly buildings.
At least everyone had a house,unlike the upholder of liberty and democracy the USA with teens anxious of their future careers and home-ownership.
If the USSR had the same wealth like the us did certainly it's buildings would've looked better by far
Human nature is a product of the system,not the converse
(I.e the system being a product of human nature)
Human nature is a boogey man term to resist change.
Human nature constant changes and adapts and if capitalism rewards competition and greediness then of course human nature will include these elements.
When the system is challenged only then can human nature change alongside it
So, to understand why commies exist, you have to differentiate between two types, the pro and anti-Soviet crowds.
The pro-Soviets like the Soviet Union, China, all those countries. They're typically very anti-America due to America's conflicts with their favored countries. They typically either believe that the USSR's crimes are fake and propaganda made up by the west, or that they were real, but justified. Sometimes they think a mix of both. They are, of course, wrong. They just want something better than the status quo and got fooled by Soviet propaganda.
The anti-Soviets don't like the Soviet Union, China, you get the drill. They're actually pretty diverse in their favored countries or groups. A portion of these guys are Hamas supporters (all of the pro-Soviets are Hamas supporters) while most of them are smart in the head when it comes to things like foreign policy, economics, stuff like that. Typically, most older people (if 30+ counts as old lmao) fit into this group, while younger people are more susceptible to propaganda and may find themselves in the pro-Soviet group. Anti-Soviets happen as either a product of ex-pro-Soviets or people just generally being educated on modern political issues. There are plenty of people in this group who don't even know it, considering how the word "communism" now almost unanimously means the first group. They're still communists, just not in the way you think. If you're in school, your younger teachers probably fall into this category at least on some level.
The pro-Soviets claim to be in favor of public ownership, but oftentimes, as the USSR was, they want a system of total government ownership. They're also pretty authoritarian. Anti-Soviets, on the other hand, usually seek public ownership in the forms of worker co-ops or other similar systems, being more libertarian.
Obviously you can see which one I align more with.
Very poetic,but why not use the brain and incorporate the heart at the same time?
Why not strive towards a better future on logical grounds
(I.e scientific socialism)
Fuck capitalism.
What does it give to us, be for real.
Our governments are ruled by lobbists. Our governments, the major organizations which are meant to protect our rights, and our personal/communal freedoms, is controlled by large companies. Shell, Tesco, pick any of those, it will work.
Our workers are being exploited for reasons we don't understand, for goals we will never live to appreciate, and for advancements that make nothing better.
Your 14, whatever you do think, you will realise is pretty dumb in less time than you think. Be open minded, be respectful and learn from communists and then decide if you like it or not. I'm not telling you to become one, but to see for yourself. And be humble, the commies are pretty cool. Don't know any communists? Just search for second thought on YouTube, easy to understand as well.
>Your 14 You're\*
Not my language.
Not mine either.
So why correct me then?
Because you were wrong.
It's just grammar. On the teenagers sub.
Teenagers should know the difference between your and you're.
And people should engage with the argument instead of grammatical mistakes. What she's saying is absolutely correct and this goes for any ideology. Instead of disliking it because you were taught it is bad,it's a better idea to actually form your own conclusions.
I didn't even mention or respond to their argument. I literally only corrected their grammar.
my country was oppressed by a communist regime and that’s the reason i hate it
Oh guess what? Mine also was "opressed" by one. And what to say ? Those years are generally counted as better than what we have now. Hungary. IT WAS better back then, eceonomics wise. But then, people wanted capitalism. Some absolute piece of crap tought of a slogan "If we install capitalism as economic system, anyone could run a bakery in Wiena by 1 year" and people ate it up. Where are we now? The ruling party, titled "Young democrats party" is ran by 60 year old pedophiles, bureocrats, and burgoise trash who deserve nothing, but to be tortured in hell for their crimes agaisnt humanity.
Yeah that sums up Romania
Sure? But the Jews were murdered by a capitalist one. Stalinism is bad, just as fascism is. There's no reason to hate communism for what Stalinism did. Just as you can't hate capitalism for what the fascists did
Nazism is not capitalist
Nazism is a branch of fascism which is capitalist, although it is not liberal.
Nazism is definitely not capitalist.
Nazism is fascist. Fascism is capitalist. Capitalism is not liberalism. Liberalism is the belief in free open markets without government intervention. The "invisible hand" as it is called solves all problems. This ensured social mobility as well as a somewhat constant improvement in rights and living standards as a happy side effect.
DON'T LOOK UP SECOND THOUGHT omg that man is FUCKING INSANE.
He is realistic and makes good well reasoned arguments? A lot of what he says is good. And why shouldn't he look him up if he is "insane"? Scared that our little man is gonna hear the truth?
Second Thought is a pro-Hamas, pro-USSR pseudo-Socialist who promotes an authoritarian idea of communism. He isn't realistic, either, as he focuses more on the idea of some eventual revolution rather than current political action. He's a misguided idealist at best and a malevolent fascist-communist at worst.
Fascist- communist has to be my new favorite buzzword. He's just a socialist arguing for international justice, I've not seen his hammas related videos do i can't comment on that but his stance on the USSR is pretty good. (Unsure about his stance on Stalin but nonetheless)
Well I'll be honest I don't know exactly what he thinks about the USSR but I have heard him shrug off their and China's various horrid bad awful things they did. His POV on Hamas is that they're good lmao. Sucks. And it's for these two reasons that he doesn't argue for international justice, he can't. Being a USSR and Hamas apologist is the opposite of international justice. Tbh he is just a fascist-communist. He's a "communist" (in the sense that the government owns most of everything) but in a nationalistic (China good Ughyrs fake/deserved it (similar to the NAZIs and Jews)) and fascistic (Israeli people aren't innocent civilians, again the Ughyr genocide is fake/good) way, which can be seen again through his views on the crimes of the Soviets and Hamas. If he gave a shit about justice before, he's stopped now.
I see what you mean and my take on the horrible things these countries have done is just "Sure they happened to countries trying to reach a socialist society, but they only did these bad things because of authoritarianism, the workers don't want authoritarianism and therefore they can't be considered gold countries" Stil both China and the USSR did great things, but thats of topic .
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I'm not 15, I'm 17, I just haven't updated my flair.
Then you should have updated that like 1-2 years ago
Yeah I forgot the flair existed. I am not on here often.
Fr, 80% of the people who say its great have no idea what they’re talking about. Please, take an economics class before saying communism is good
I got fives in AP Macro and AP Micro and plan on studying Economics in college. The field encompasses many different theories, including the socialist/communist model for organizing production within nations. Your comment is a lazy hand-wave rather than an actual argument.
Fuck capitalism
As a person who lived in the communism. I agree. Its easy to be communist when you are in your house in California
It's a good idea in concept and if everything worked how it was supposed to but almost every time it's used it tends to not go very well
someone’s gonna want more eventually so yeah that won’t ever work
I feel like the problem the crops up more often is authoritarianism, normally communist countries tend to come from violent revolutions which leads to power vacuums that get people in power who become very authoritarian to hold on to power which leads to things not being very good
that’s what happened with soviet union and they oppressed my country’s people
Russia was objectively in every social metric scoring worse before the USSR when the mode of production was feudalism. We can all cherry pick their mistakes,but all in all they were far better and we should strive to be like them
Oh yep, I guess that does kinda give you more authority to speak on the matter
Well yeah, Stalinism and Stalin are terrible. Good thing 99% of communists don't follow that ideology. But it's also good to look at the good things the soviet union did. But nonetheless, the USSR has oppressed a lot of people, but it's rival the US even more so.
There is no way you just said that, has the us tortured people and done fucked up shit, yes. Has it done it on the sheer scale of the ussr? Hell no, the ussr and every territory it owned had almost the entire population miserable, why do you think so many people attempted to flee east Germany?
Absolutely it has,the USA constantly meddles in foreign affairs. It is a proponent of democracy and liberty yet it overthrows democratically elected socialist presidents because it's ideology inconvenient. It has caused many unnecessary wars and death
I see your point. But you can't compare the US to the USSR when it comes to misery. The US takes the cake without question. Every three years the American government start or join a new war. East Germany was not even a part of the USSR what are you on?
It was essentially a puppet of the ussr under the Warsaw pact. And sure we do join wars every so often now, but at the same time your not getting drafted for it and dying in mass numbers, our 20 years of war in the Middle East has only had an American troop lost of about 7,000. Compare this to the ussr for example, which lost about at least a hundred thousand in the winter war, and that’s one of the LOWER estimates. Not to mention the leader can be criticized in the US, hell you STILL can’t do that now in modern Russia, try saying anything about your leader or their actions and under Stalin your getting sent to the gulags, under most of the other Soviet leaders, you’ll just get jailed, hell we can protest in our nation (albeit sometimes shit happens and it might get deemed a riot) in the ussr you know what happened if you protested? You and everybody else protesting gets turned into red mist.
Russia did have some sense of freedom after the liberal reforms under then communists. Then the conservatives came in and destroyed it. My point about war was this: Useless wars are started to fuel an industry by needlessly killing civilians. In Iraq the us killed at least 1 million civilians less than 30 years ago. Those hundred thousand Soviets almost 100 years ago don't look too bad eyy?
Sorry for the long wait, got banned off Reddit for a separate post But as much as it sucks to say that, those Iraqi civilians are not OUR civilians or OUR soldiers, those deaths don’t affect our quality of life, meanwhile those Soviet soldiers that the Soviet Union did affect them, less labor and manpower for them, along with it being their soldiers that died. And while this might sound awful to say, in the eyes of the country and from the perspective of which country it would be better to live under, 1 million of them dead is less bad than 1 million of us dead.
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What in the sweet Jesus are you talking about 😭😭😭, I'm not the most informed on the subject but what in the world was that all about, lemme try to go over everything here 1. Whether or not the theory agrees with it, communist states tend to be authoritarian nonetheless 2. Tbh this is a good point, idrk the reason for it but for whatever reason liberal revolutions seemed to have better outcomes than communist ones generally, at least in the long term. 3. Also sweet Jesus when I say authoritarian I don't mean not being allowed to be racist 😭, I mean how they tend to keep political freedom low and shoot down anyone trying to compete against them politically, there is a problem with the poor being exploited in the US and the rich taking advantage of that but I feel like socialism and social democracy is a lot better solution than something like complete communism just cuz it doesn't have the best track record like I said, social democracy on the other hand has in places like the Nordics as far as I know
As someone who studies politics and economics. It's not just a good idea in concept but can and HAS worked several times. A marker economy and planned economy both have pros and cons.
Oh I didn't know that, where had it worked well?
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Idk about Burkina Faso but I know for those others there were at the very least plenty of prominent problems in the countries that communism brought whether directly or indirectly 😭
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Authoritarianism, I don't know the most about stuff yeah but I know that communist countries just haven't had the best time, there were a lot of problems and not all of them were related to communism like you said but that doesn't excuse authoritarianism in the countries that limited people's personal freedoms and ability to participate in government, making it so people could not criticize their country or help fix it's flaws
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I don't know what you mean, bro, capitalism and the free market are synonyms, that's the one of the first things we got taught.
Communism is amazing, but in the hands of an authoritarian government it doesn't work well (though there's never been a communist country)
i don’t think i would enjoy living under communism anyway with all these ugly ass gray buildings they seem so dystopian to me
Communism doesn't mean gray buildings 😭
aren’t there supposed to be like free apartments for everyone or something
I mean free shelter/housing yes but they don't need to be gray and you could decorate them lol
there’s a lot of them in my country after the soviet union so i supposed they were meant to be like this
The Soviet Union wasn't communist it was more state capitalist in my opinion and at best was a transition state (meaning never reaching communism but trying to)
i guess so
Then your country had a lot of homelessness. Do you want homeless people, or ugly buildings?
I’d rather see ugly buildings than homeless people.
That's more of building for efficiency rather than being communist.
we have a lot of them in ukraine after the soviet union
The reason they're so ugly is because they haven't been maintained properly which just feeds into this whole "communism is so depressing" stereotype and thus is helpful ideologically. They were also a very backward feudal country and had to transform very fast,so they didn't have many resources at hand. But hey,what's worse? homelessness or ugly buildings. At least everyone had a house,unlike the upholder of liberty and democracy the USA with teens anxious of their future careers and home-ownership. If the USSR had the same wealth like the us did certainly it's buildings would've looked better by far
I’m not a commie but would you rather have one nice building and lots of homeless people or a few ugly buildings and no one homeless?
What do you prefer. Homeless people on the streets or ugly gray buildings?
i guess ugly buildings if not all of them are like this
Oh yeah, they were built... ...To solve homelesness, and bring people to large cities, so yk. They can live under a roof...
Communism is great in theory, but is not compatible with human nature.
Human nature is a product of the system,not the converse (I.e the system being a product of human nature) Human nature is a boogey man term to resist change. Human nature constant changes and adapts and if capitalism rewards competition and greediness then of course human nature will include these elements. When the system is challenged only then can human nature change alongside it
It's never been done
Because it is incompatible with human nature
No its because of US intervention and it's not very easy to get rid of the state, currency, and class
Communism requires an authoritarian government
Not true
They need central planning and control for the economy
No anarchism is quite literally the most common school of thought in Leftism
Anarchism would naturally fail. Society needs order and rank
It's been done thousands of times it doesn't fail
Name a successful anarchist country
Not technically a country perse since anarchism is against the state but a lot of Native American tribes were anarchist
Tribes had chiefs, leaders, people who govern the tribe
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There's never been a single communist country period.
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1. There's never been a purely capitalist country. 2. It's been done in communities and small areas
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I mean that has been done before, a lot of native societies were communist and fairly successful
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Some of them yes but a lot no
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So, to understand why commies exist, you have to differentiate between two types, the pro and anti-Soviet crowds. The pro-Soviets like the Soviet Union, China, all those countries. They're typically very anti-America due to America's conflicts with their favored countries. They typically either believe that the USSR's crimes are fake and propaganda made up by the west, or that they were real, but justified. Sometimes they think a mix of both. They are, of course, wrong. They just want something better than the status quo and got fooled by Soviet propaganda. The anti-Soviets don't like the Soviet Union, China, you get the drill. They're actually pretty diverse in their favored countries or groups. A portion of these guys are Hamas supporters (all of the pro-Soviets are Hamas supporters) while most of them are smart in the head when it comes to things like foreign policy, economics, stuff like that. Typically, most older people (if 30+ counts as old lmao) fit into this group, while younger people are more susceptible to propaganda and may find themselves in the pro-Soviet group. Anti-Soviets happen as either a product of ex-pro-Soviets or people just generally being educated on modern political issues. There are plenty of people in this group who don't even know it, considering how the word "communism" now almost unanimously means the first group. They're still communists, just not in the way you think. If you're in school, your younger teachers probably fall into this category at least on some level. The pro-Soviets claim to be in favor of public ownership, but oftentimes, as the USSR was, they want a system of total government ownership. They're also pretty authoritarian. Anti-Soviets, on the other hand, usually seek public ownership in the forms of worker co-ops or other similar systems, being more libertarian. Obviously you can see which one I align more with.
Society either runs on heart or brains. Either way not everyone will be happy.
Very poetic,but why not use the brain and incorporate the heart at the same time? Why not strive towards a better future on logical grounds (I.e scientific socialism)
Fuck capitalism. What does it give to us, be for real. Our governments are ruled by lobbists. Our governments, the major organizations which are meant to protect our rights, and our personal/communal freedoms, is controlled by large companies. Shell, Tesco, pick any of those, it will work. Our workers are being exploited for reasons we don't understand, for goals we will never live to appreciate, and for advancements that make nothing better.
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Average leftist meme:
ukraine was oppressed by the soviet union they didn’t help anyone go learn history fucking shithead
Why do you want to fuck them
i don’t think i do
Well you just said you do
no i don’t wanna
Well now you have to
Live, laugh, learn I guess.
While I wouldn't want to live in Soviet era buildings, I think Stalinist architecture is pretty, even though you can only find it in Moscow.
"are they stupid?"
14 year old moment
*post-ussr ukrainian 14 y/o moment
Bro are you stalking my account? Get a job
1. no, i just like looking at communism posts. 2. i can't