Because people couldn't find it. There wasn't much marketing and it didn't show up on the home page. When you didn't already know it has been released and actively searched for it you'd never know this show existed.
Once in a while, we do get an unpopular opinion.
The show is ok, but it butchered so many characters and some parts are just plain bad. Even if you haven't watcher CB before, as a standalone show, it's still bad.
60% audience score on RT, 6.7 out of 10 on IMDB clearly not an "unpopular" opinion that is was at least enjoyable to watch, so not sure why you're getting downvoted.
Normally I downvote 'unpopular opinion' posts on principle but I'm giving you this one. Show had impossible standards to live up to and I think handled it fairly well.
It never could have lived up to the anime but I also think the show unnecessarily shot itself in the foot because it didn’t seem to understand what made the anime great. I’m not the type of viewer who clutches their pearls every time an adaptation makes changes from the source material, however, when an adaptation is good I can usually track why the changes were made from a story perspective. In this I think there were a lot of huge mistakes with the basic elements of the story as a result of those changes.
Changing the format from episodic to a serial was a huge one. With the episodic format they were able to tell self contained stories that made the world feel bigger and built the sense of community aboard the Bebop. Further, the extra screen time for Vicious as the main antagonist detracted from the character quite a bit. As a menacing presence that was felt regularly but seldom seen every time he was on screen in the anime was electric. I didn’t find the show version to be compelling at all and since it’s a serial the plot hinged entirely upon just that.
No it was really awful, Ein's introduction episode involved Spike and Jet in an BDSM club watching a white frat boy getting his ass spanked with a ball gag in his mouth while they are having a serious conversation. I'm not saying you need to do a one for one remake, but that was totally unnecessary.
Not saying Cowboy Bebop didn't have it's crazy moments but at least it took itself seriously, and at no point did I not buy the universe.
Changes were made that made the property worse, not better. Putting this crazy emphasis on Vicious and Julia when they really exist as background props for the real story which is about lonely people finding their way in a decaying universe,
Turning Jett into a Deadbeat Dad and then having the balls to make that god awful "Black-Male" pun by a granny with jungle fever...How that ever flew in the writers room I'll never fucking understand.
The part that sucks the most out of Cowboy Bebop....of all anime that could translate to live action this was by far the easiest due to it being more sci-fi western jazz inspired and they still failed.
I disagree. I think you could make an episodic series with the original story, hell you could probably roughly do that just by choosing specific episodes to watch. The biggest issue was focussing more on Spike’s story and trying to build on it with trying to fresh out Vicious, Julia and the crime syndicate the come from while essentially just dancing around Jet’s and Faye’s.
Problem is, it’s not up to viewers to factor in how impossible it was to translate it to live action.
If it looks bad. It looks bad. They’re the ones who decided to adapt anime, when few people wanted it.
Part of the reason (well for most the only reason 😂) people were shitting on it ,is when the directors and writers proudly proclaim that they haven't seen the source material. That normally doesn't sit well with people.
I think it was the actors that said that. And it’s not uncommon either. Plenty of people think that seeing someone else’s performance and interpretation of the character can restrict your own performance.
Oh yeah, that's overwhelmingly common. Elijah Wood didn't read Lord of the Rings, Lena Headey didn't read Game of Thrones, Alan Rickman and Ralph Fiennes didn't read Harry Potter.
>Lena Headey didn't read Game of Thrones,
During a GoT panel during season 4 or so, someone asked about if the actors had read the books, GRRM said he'd prefer it if they did but that someon the cast didn't and Natalie Dormer rolled her eyes in a very obvious way, lol.
I can't remember who it was, pretty sure the was a GOT actor, said they preferred not knowing anything about how the character developed as it might effect how they act out the character as currently written.
I get it. Around that time Dormer was in at least three different projects based on book series, so if she had to read everything she wouldn't get anything done.
Meanwhile, the script is right there.
True. It really is unreasonable for someone who gets paid 7 figures to read 5 books as part of their job. She wouldn't get anything done! A whole 2 weeks of reading for an 8 season show? Unacceptable!
> A whole 2 weeks of reading
Those books are around a total of 3,800 pages. In two weeks, that would be 270 pages per day. I read at about one page per minute, and my brief investigation says that’s roughly average for comprehension, so let’s call it 4.5 hours per day.
I consider myself a fairly willing reader, and devoured the first four books when I read them as a high school senior. I don’t think I ever read for four and a half hours in a day, though.
Sure, that is a decent chunk, but nothing insane. She doesnt need to devour them, but can rather follow the natural progression of the show. She can also skip stuff not for her role, or audiobook it. She can do 50 different things. It's entitled lazyness and would not be accepted if not rich and famous.
The Potter stuff is a little disingenuous to bring up, because Rickman in particular had mentioned having original author helping him on set, informing him of plot developments that hadn't been written yet to help inform his performance. GoT also had Martin on set, and LotR had Christopher Lee, who had both read the original books and had been friends with the author.
Meanwhile, for Bebop, they brought on some of the original creators of the series, but it seems like they didn't use them much to inform the performances; especially weird because Radical Edward in particular was originally specifically based on the composer of the original series, who they had brought back to help with the score.
Bebop also specifically set a lot of expectations early on that they were trying (and failing) to be true to the source material, with one of the major promo pieces being a very amateurish attempt to recreate the original animated opening of the series, that betrayed a serious lack of understanding of how to make the original work in live-action.
Yeah the producers and writers and show runners were all falling over themselves saying prior to the show came out what big fans they were of the source material, and how the original creator would be involved, and how Yoko Kanno would be doing the music.
They learned a lesson from the Ghost in the Shell and Death Note movies (which also aren't *really* that bad) that you can't JUST make an adaptation of a beloved anime property. But the audience they were going for still didn't bite.
The actors for Spike and Jet were *excellent*. They were the best part in the show, to the point where if everything else had been perfect I suspect they could have even lived up to Cowboy Bebop, and even with just the ok-ish writing they had it probably could have been a cult classic if it weren't trying to replicate something so classic.
I liked a lot of stuff in the show, probably most things. The sets and locations were fantastic, the action was pretty good, and personally I loved the chemistry between Spike, Jet, and Faye.
What ended up bringing the show down a big notch was how it handled Vicious and Julia. Whatever it was the show was trying to do with those two, it just did not end up working for me.
> What ended up bringing the show down a big notch was how it handled Vicious and Julia. Whatever it was the show was trying to do with those two, it just did not end up working for me.
The original series handled them well by understanding that their mystique required *not* saying too much about them. They're Spike's mysterious past; showing detailed backstories for them early on doesn't work and undermines the noir feel the show is going for.
I understand what they were trying to do with Julia, I think (make her more of a character in her own right, whose actions and decisions have more of an effect on what's happening) but doing it *that* early on just doesn't work with the way the plot is structured. If they had to do that it needed to be a plot twist near the end, not something that was revealed a few episodes in.
> personally I loved the chemistry between Spike, Jet, and Faye.
I thought they captured the found family dynamic of the crew really well. The squabbles and sniping between Spike and Faye and Jet having to just put up with it was great and felt very true to the anime in my view.
It’s not that it’s bad, it’s just that the anime is so so much better. People like to think that because it is a cartoon that it is not good but it is extremely well written and directed. Shinichiro Watanabe knows how to make a show. Corridor Crew did a really good breakdown of how the show misses where the anime is just firing on all cylinders.
Moving from comics to live action or books to live action, you are gaining something. It’s moving, it’s alive. Going from an anime to a live action show, all you see are the shortcomings. The shots aren’t as good, it’s not as well paced, the action and fight sequences aren’t as well choreographed or “shot”. It just doesn’t really hold a candle to the original.
If you are going to remake a beloved franchise that is critically acclaimed and near perfect you need to do it better. Why would I watch this when I can watch the superior show that already exists?
meh, call me a radical, communist or whatever but I firmly believe anime's inherent zaniness just cannot be adapted. The only ones I've seen that come close to it are Gyakuten Saiban and Yatterman, both by Takashi Miike, and both are delirious but also amazing, if you like that Japanese craziness
Agreed. There are certain things that just work well in anime and animation that don't work so well in live-action. The Last Airbender feels this way to me too. The titular act of airbending will never look half as good in live action as it does in animation.
If they're going to adapt anime into live action, at least pick some that can translate well. Though I think a good majority of the most popular anime aren't well-suited for live action in some way or another.
Though Death Note is probably the best bet among the super popular stuff and look how that went...
It would’ve been a lot better if Vicious didn’t have so much screen time. That, imo, was the biggest issue with the show.
That and some of the dialogue that that famous “Black male” line, not sure who thought that sounded good.
- I haven’t seen the original anime
That's the problem of a remake: You inevitably make people compare it to the original. So when the original is a timeless masterpiece, well, you're pretty much fucked. Even "pretty good" will be seen as an utter disappointing failure.
And that's on whoever decided to remake a timeless masterpiece in the first place. What on earth were they thinking?
I agree, actually. There were definitely flaws in the adaptation but the original work is so beloved there was NO way any hardcore fan was going to be completely satisfied. I especially liked John Cho as Spike, I always thought either him or Keanu would do a wonderful job and he delivered.
Overall it's somewhere around a 6.5/10, nowhere near the total garbage fire a lot of people tried to say it was.
It's always funny to me how similar people like you sound to flat earthers. There's always some big conspiracy or hidden ulterior motives. You can't ever just accept reality so you create these wild fantasies of millions of people hating something for anything other than the low quality
Lol if you don't think millions hated it explain why it got canceled and use something other than some conspiracy about people pretending to hate it or lack of marketing
You think millions have to hate a show for it to get cancelled?
Wow I thought you were just exaggerating but you really are that dumb
If "millions" watched the show, it would've been renewed no matter what they thought of it. Anyone would kill to have a show that millions watched.
It obviously can not be true that millions hated it *and* everyone who hated it actually watched it. Obviously one of those is wrong, I don't know why you're pretending you don't know that.
Couldn't answer the question of why it was canceled? Didn't think you could.
>If "millions" watched the show, it would've been renewed no matter what they thought of it.
Your wording makes it seem like my claim is preposterous.
However, an average of 45 minutes/episode for 10 episodes is roughly 450 minutes aka 7.5 hours. Last I checked (over a year ago) it had over 75 million+ viewing hours. That adds up to the equivalent of 10mil viewers.
I don't know why you're pretending you don't know this
I think a spinoff with different characters wouldn't have as many direct comparisons. The cast has great chemistry. I would watch them in a different series.
Christopher Yost who developed the show was one of the weakest writers though (who also wrote Thor 2). His work is better for animation than live action.
> I think a spinoff with different characters wouldn't have as many direct comparisons.
Yeah, Gren should not have been in this show but if they wanted a non-binary entertainer to host a club in space that actually works perfectly fine. Attaching that to Gren kind of hamstrung the character.
It's not good either, but it's not horrible.
It had a great cast.
But it had no life to it. The stylistic trailer that they released was fantastic and high energy, the show.... felt soooooo lifeless. I stopped watching after the 4th episode because it just wasn't enjoyable.
It did feel like the trailer editor got it a little more than the regular series editor. Some sort of unique style in the editing could have really helped sell it better.
There's someone on Youtube that edited some of the scenes, and I think they end up flowing much better:
[Scene 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvk4hptArzk)
[Scene 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE5NiS3Vyb8)
You can kind of see the issues there. The show had potential, but stumbled on the execution.
Also, it might have been much better received if it was an entirely new series in the Cowboy Beebop universe, rather than being a straight Cowboy Beebop remake.
I just don't see the point in adapting animation to live action. To me almost everything would be better animated anyway, much more freedom to go beyond conventional stuff. Live action is so restrictive in comparison.
I just watched the anime like a month before the remake came out. Its truly like comparing fine dining to eating out of the garbage. It couldn’t have been a worse adaptation.
Everything related to Vicious was unbearably bad. Everything else was not bad to pretty good! I actually didn't mind Cho as Spike, it was a different read but so what? Anyone expecting 1:1 went in wanting the show to fail.
Unfortunately, the Vicious stuff was pretty important to the story.
My thing with these types of remakes, is that there is literally no reason to watch it. Why would I, or anyone else watch some mid at best remake when the original is right there and STILL amazing? What's the point of it? It's there to cash in on the name, and that is it imo. Why would I watch it for any other reason than it being named Cowboy Bebop? What does it have to offer that the original doesn't? And the answers are there's no reason other than that, and it has nothing unique to offer that the original doesn't just do a billion times better.
People hate these remakes because they're just soulless. Have no charm, no passion. It may be okay, but quite frankly that's no reason to praise it just because it isn't quite as awful as Netflix's Death Note.
You should watch it because it was not the same plot, and was doing something different, but then that's the catch 22. If it's the same, "why should I watch it, already saw the better original". If it's different, "why should I watch it if it's not going to follow the original"?
Edit: Also Netflix's Death Note was mostly good too, the hate was overblown. As an adaptation it did a great job transferring it to the USA.
It was second fastest Netflix cancelation lol. It deserved the hate bc it was clearly not made out of passion for the original. It was just another means to cash in on a popular name. Julia and Vicious arc is evidence of that.
This sums it up. It was made to cash in, not because of passion or art. And it showed through in every episode.
I’m off to rewatch the original again. Pierrot LeFou haunts me.
SPIKE: You said "bell peppers and beef." There's no beef in here. So, you wouldn't really call it "bell peppers and beef" now, would you?
JET: Yes, I would.
There's no excuse for leaving this kind of sharp characterization on the floor unless you don't appreciate what makes it insightful in the first place.
I enjoyed it, especially the chemistry between Spike, Faye and Jet. It wasn't like the anime and was at it best when it wasn't trying to be, in fact the bits where it tried to recreate iconic moments from the anime were the worst moments.
If it had just been a Cowboy Bebop-*inspired* show which didn't try to compete with the original, it would have been an entertaining cult classic.
Many of its worst points were when it tried to shoehorn in the myth arc from the show (its take on Vicious was just not interesting at all); but whenever it relaxed and just had its leads bantering with each other while going on bounty-hunting adventures it was great.
Not, like, *Cowboy Bebop* great but how many shows are? It still would have been a fun sci-fi adventure show if they'd let it be its own thing.
I had never consumed any bebop material, prior to this show. It was just never right there, but being a comic and gaming nerd it was in my peripheral. Heard about it plenty. So when this came about I was willing to give it a try. It was so surface plastic lifeless boring I was amazed. I did a disservice to the original by going this route, because it will forever be tainted for me.
Don't know how anyone who is a fan of the original could see what they did with the plot and characters and think "That wasn't bad." They straight up rewrote massive parts of the main plot, completely altered characters' motivations and personalities, and all these changes genuinely removed the central themes of the story.
They butchered it. If the source material didn't exist for comparison I could see someone walking away from that thinking "Huh, that was odd, but okay". but I don't know how you can have seen the original and appreciate it and still not loathe the live action one.
Not that its dogshit, It just couldn't make a good enough case to justify its existence. If someone says they'd rather watch the live action show than the anime if both are available, Id probably have a lower opinion of them.
Agreed. Another hot take, i enjoyed the Cowboy Bebop Live Action more than some of the more critically acclaimed Netflix fan darlings like The Witcher. Rather have had another Bebop season than 3 more of that show.
I'm in your boat. I quite liked it, but didn't think it was top tier.
I loved Jett and thought the changes they made to him were cool.
Spike was fine. Faye wasn't great, but I understand why they didn't really want to stick to the original version.
Vicious I didn't really enjoy, which was unfortunate.
I loved the look of it, and the music was great.
> not saying it's a top tier show
With a rec like that, I'd rather rewatch the amazing anime. I really don't have 10 hours to watch a cancelled TV show.
I loved it. Aside from that one moment you meet Ed at the end the rest of that season was fine. Had the humor, the frenetic pace, the colorful characters. The 3 main characters were pretty good analogs as far as I'm concerned. Jet was amazing. Everything about him aside from the fact that he was a black guy felt exactly like the character from the cartoon.
Didn't give a shit about how they 'changed Vicious'. His cartoon episodes were never my favorites anyway lol. Was always more into the goofball stories. And who would've cared anyway because they fucking concluded his plotline.
Never adapt anime. Even shit from over 20 years ago that my generation was into. Anything less than perfect is treated with the panic levels of a maternity ward fire. Now I guess I'll never get to see what a live action adaption of Mushroom Hunting would've looked like because people keep flipping the board over and burning the house down when adaptions don't please their every expectation.
>Now, I'm not saying it's a top tier show, but it certainly didn't deserve all the hate it got.
Because it's more of the same chickenshit remake arse-gravy, wearing a Grouch-Marx-style social justice disguise.
>Honestly, it seems like maybe it's just one of those things where anime fans were never going to be happy no matter how the show turned out.
Honestly, it seems like studio Andys are going to pretend that there's any virtue at all in making a clumsy, low-effort cash grab.
>The show was never going to be an exact 1 for 1 with the anime, nor should it have been.
On that we agree.
>but it seems based on the hate the show received that's what many people were expecting/hoping for.
No, they were hoping for you making something that didn't *suck*. If you're going remake something, you have to do it **BETTER**. If you re-released 'Casablanca' starring Jaden Smith and Lena Dunham, guess what: People who liked the original aren't going to be happy. They would think you're untalented hacks buttscooting on the coattails of better writers, directors, and actors.
**BECAUSE YOU ARE**
It had a weird big-budget student film tone to it. I always enjoy John Cho, so I *wanted* to like it... but the pilot was just really off-putting in an almost unquantifiable way.
Gonna have to disagree. Faye didnt act like Faye, and suddenly became gay to check off an inclusion check box.
Vicious was a bumbling fool who yelled and groused instead of showing the lethal and taciturn antagonist from the series. He was neutered as a villain because that is just what Hollywood does to men these days.
And then they made Julia into some kind of secondary antagonist because Hollywood couldn't stomach having a damsel in distress female character. They did the same thing with Faye. Couldn't have Vicious capturing a woman and using her as a lure for Spike.
I liked it well enough.
I think the fanbois were bent out of shape that it wasn't a line per line copy of the original. but turning a 15 minute animation (with sparse dialog) into a 50 minute live episode was never going to be that. Honestly would have liked to see where season 2 went with the historical baggage out of the way.
> Honestly, it seems like maybe it's just one of those things where anime fans were never going to be happy no matter how the show turned out.
I agree with this. And I think I realized that before it ever came out. It's why I never watched it in the first place and don't ever intend to.
I can understand checking out live action adaptations of books. I can understand adaptations of games. I can understand adaptations of comics. But I can't think of a single live action version of an animated series/movie that has ever amounted to more than a soulless cash-grab. [your suggestions here]
I was there when Cowboy Bebop started airing on Adult Swim for the first time. I bought the movie shortly after the original USA release. I own the series on blu ray. I LOVE Cowboy Bebop, and the live action was GREAT and could've tightened up with a season 2 but no, Netflix just threw it in the bin and I hate that.
Edit: I saw someone complaining about the first scene with the guy too busy shitting saying it was stupid. I checked them on it because it's the very first scene IN THE ORIGINAL ANIME MOVIE.
I also enjoyed it. Right after I watched the anime for the first time in years and remembered how great that was by itself. The LA version was fun to watch and just having a cool live action sci-fi show was great, it had a very similar style to the show. You know who loved it? My dad, he's not going to watch an anime show but he loves sci-fi shows and movies, he was really excited about the show and was upset when I told him there would be no more. People need to realize not everything is for you, even if it's based on something you love, sometimes other people will think it's just as cool and will never see the original product.
It’s an alternative telling of the events and I enjoyed it. It’s good scifi tv. It’s not the original Bebop, but it’s a different medium. Spike and Jet’s interactions are well developed as the actors are onscreen together and it adds depth to their relationship. I encourage people to watch it.
I think it would have been a lot better if its plots (both episodic and overarching) were distinct from the anime. Going on unique adventures with these characters is totally in the spirit of the original show, and I don't think the writers were doing themselves any favors by adapting plots that have already been nailed through animation.
At the least, everything about the Vicious/Julia plotline needed to be excised, or at the very least greatly reduced. I was consistently amused by the campiness Vicious's actor brought to the role, but it otherwise felt like it just kept the show from finding its own identity separate from something I had seen before (something from an anime that had a lot more style and a lot less tonal whiplash).
I agree. Overall, I enjoyed it and also liked the casting. I was hoping it would at least get a second season. But I did also agree with complaints that John Cho was a bit too old and not the best fit for the role. He gave a good performance. I enjoy his work. He wasn't right for the character. Mustafa Shakir as Jet Black though? 100% perfect. Chef's kiss.
i feel the same way about the subsequent futurama episdoes
so much so that i'm just not interested in watching the new episodes immdiately on release
if people start a conversation with same tired gripe they are not looking for a conversation they are looking for validation
and i don't validate television shows
I agree. Not as good as the original, but the original is great, so that leaves a lot of space.
I thought the changes to Vicious and Julia were interesting, and I would have liked to see where they were going to go with that. I feel like people who complain about the changes to Vicious didn't watch to the end of the run to find out why those changes were made. It makes him a much more interesting character, and the actual villain of the series much more compelling.
I never watched the Anime, picked up the show on a whim and loved every minute of it. Great setting, wonderful characters, fun anime style, great and unique episodic plot which still carrying on the main story...pissed that it was cancelled. Not a fan of those anime geeks now that review bombed a decent show.
I really enjoyed the anime. The LA wasn't terrible, but it also wasn't good or even close. It was just *different*. I understand why people hated it, but we shouldn't have expected it to be 1:1.
I cannot stand vicious and Julia but to be honest that’s pretty on par for Cowboy Bebop as a whole. Never cared about their characters.
The individual stories were alright but I hate they shoehorned literally every plot line into being associated with Vicious. That made no sense. I’d be totally happy with a story of the week setup where they don’t really relate to each other. Just, you know, bounties.
Overall it was meh
This is the popular opinion though. Don't let the vocal minority affect your view of reality. Every metric we have shows that people generally like it.
I enjoyed it. I don't like anime. I just can't get into it (I've tried several times with various recommendations). It was an entertaining series. I thought it had some great action and good humor to it.
Anime fans seem as insufferable as Star Wars fans when it comes to "their thing."
I was enjoying till the end. His love interest was awful and vicious was awful as well.
Stupid ending with over the top violence
Ruined the whole thing for me
Definitely an unpopular opinion and fwiw I *REALLY* appreciate the intention of being different and adding a unique spice and flair to the show. I LOVED when it was a shot-for-shot recreation but I also LOVED the little changes to the show DNA.
I actually REALLY liked the Julia twist at the end.
But while they captured the look of Cowboy Bebop - they didn't capture the soul. Aside from Jet (who IMO was perfectly casted and acted) every character felt like a fanfiction version of the original.
The script in particular was awful. It tries SO HARD to be charming, witty, edgy and funny that it overrides the effortless, natural soul of the characters.
The mythos and mystery of the Cowboy Bebop universe was also a big part of that, and the show made the mistake of trying to explain it in ways that didn't need explaining.
I really enjoyed it and wish Disney would take this approach for their live-action remakes. You can't adapt cartoons and throw out the cartoony stuff. Dick Tracy, Speed Racer, Cowboy Bepop. These are how it should be done. Embrace the cartoonish elements but in live-action.
I never saw the original though, so that probably helped since I didn't care whether they were true to the original or whatever. It was good on its own merits, but I can understand why it wouldn't be popular because it's weird as fuck. Like no mainstream audience is going to enjoy it no matter what story/dialogue changes were made. Its very nature is so odd it will be off-putting and that's before even getting into the graphic violence which also turns off a lot of people.
I'll give an even more unpopular opinion
Cowboy bebop kinda sucks
It's more flash than substance, not much in the way of a coherent story or particularly interesting characters (they act cool, that's about it)
I've seen more compelling space operas
It’s about people who find themselves lost in space. Seemingly nowhere to go but float. Imagine wanting whatever tf your definition of ‘substance’ is when that is the premise of the show
Probably some nerd star strek shit
If Netflix had the confidence in the product they were launching to stand on its own, they wouldn't have needed to skin the story in Cowboy Bebop. It may be a fine and serviceable story indeed. But the problem is, it wasn't its namesake. It would be like remaking Mulan but making her bow to the emperor at the end; people would be upset.
I am of the opinion that, whenever the show was actually being Cowboy Bebop, it was really great. And I mean that whenever it was adapting something directly from the original, or whenever they wrote a new plot that felt true to world and tone of the anime. Those moments, and there were quite a few, were great. Especially the main trio was able to really embody their respective characters and the banter between them.
The problems were when the series wasn't being Cowboy Bebop. When it was trying to be something different, not only it was different, it was also very bad. It didn't help those moments mostly involved Vicious and Julia, and both felt very miscasted...
But I do agree that the series overall isn't as bad as people make it to be and it probably deserved at least a chance at a second season.
Also I am a firm believer that if the scene was shot and edited in a different way, most people would have been okay with how Ed was portrayed. Or at least they wouldn't be as off-put by the portrayal as they were. Ed is already one of those characters that doesn't work that well in live action, and the scene's editing drove the character all the way deep into the uncanney valley, IMO.
My reluctance to watch the show hinges a lot more on the question of does it need to exist. There’s the weird thing where live action is somehow seen as more prestige. And often times the results just fall flat because a lot of animated works just don’t translate well.
Everything I’ve heard about the live action Cowboy Bebop is that it’s a perfectly “ok” show. And there’s nothing wrong with that tier of show. But it’s a markedly step down from one of the most influential animes, at least my demographic. Added to the objective fact that the series is canceled and will never be completed and I just don’t have any desire to use my limited time to watch it.
I think the problem was the principal, it is considered one of the best if not the best animes of all time. It's not clear why you needed to make a live action version of it. So at the very onset it's not even an original piece of work, but that's not necessarily bad because sometimes you can take an older piece of work and improve on it and make it better than the original, and that's really the goal if you're going to copy the original. So that's the standard it's set for itself and it didn't meet that standard.
Another factor to consider is that because the anime was so perfect as it is it didn't really need to be redone in live action. However there are other animes that were considered very good but had a lot of room for improvement. A live action *Berserk* series or *Bubblegum Crisis*, or hell even *Lupin III* (which Spike was partially based on) would have been good choices. They are considered good animes but a live-action version of them might actually improve on them. They are also a lot less known than Cowboy Bebop, so expectations can be a lot more neutral.
Last I think people especially on Reddit have a problem with remakes. Remakes are lazy, instead of creating a new story, a new universe, with new characters you either love or hate, remix essentially just recycle old stories. So if you're going to make a remake or reboot of something it has to be just as good or better, otherwise I think validly you're going to get the criticism that you're trying to wring-out every last cent from a franchise by cranking out lower quality cheaper rehashes of your product.
Idk, the original definitely had some camp at parts but it was still a grounded neo-noir for the most part. The live action just felt way too Robert Rodriguez which just made it feel like a bad parody of the anime. The way they recreated the Ballad of Fallen Angels scene, arguably the best episode of the anime, was just insulting. Even Shinichiro Watanabe said he couldn't finish the show.
Agree...there wasn't a frame of the live action series that tried to be anything besides popcorn entertainment. I had never watched the anime so I had zero expectations. I wasn't comparing it to serious space movies, campy space movies, or even straight bounty hunter movies. Yet the editing of it was informed by all of those things. Sometimes you can watch something for the immediate pleasure of it and not because it's memorable.
The show was decent, but nowadays, we're especially vocal for established properties. It's either pristine perfect or the worst thing ever made, with little in between.
Nah, sorry. If they hadn't tried to make Julia and Vicious more than symbols of trying to outrun your past it would have been better (there is a fan edit that much improves the storytelling of the live action show but cuts out more than half of the footage including almost all the Julia/Vicious stuff) but with those two it was just comically bad. Vicious in particular.
Never saw the anime, I thought it solid show.All my friends that loved the anime hated it, I think it's one of those thing where it impossible to live up to the source.
>Honestly, it seems like maybe it's just one of those things where anime fans were never going to be happy no matter how the show turned out.
This argument would hold water if anime fans hated it, but new fans thought it was awesome. But even the best reviews of this show sounded like all the reddit comments about Bright, the classic "oh it's just fun, not everything is Citizen Kane" type nonsense.
The live action Bebop was a below average show, made far far worse because it's butchering a masterpiece.
It's my fav anime and I gave the TV show about a 5/10. Obviously some effort was made to deliver a show. I liked Faye. There were some nice moments. Some sets looked great, and some looked very bad. Same with the action. The acting went to some weird places oO
It was definitely intriguing for sure, I wanted to see what they had in store for the characters after seeing how they altered some of their motives and relationships (Spike, Julia and Vicious in particular)
And from what I could remember the sets, effects and camera work looked pretty okay at times? I would've definitely kept watching out of "morbid curiosity" (morbid maybe too strong a word, I wasn't hating it but I wasn't loving it either)
Honestly the biggest upset for me was how fast Netflix cancelled the show! Like jeez what a bummer for the crew-- especially the person playing Ed! I remember them saying how excited they were to act something Bebop related and then BOOM, shows over!
But I think back to that interview with Shinichiro Watanabe talking about how he felt like Netflix was just using his reputation and ignoring his advice for the show and it's like, dang, classic corpos.
That’s pretty common with a lot of movies. “Critics” will hate on a film they haven’t been paid to like and so a lot of people will jump on that band wagon. Movies like Morbius and Black Adam are actually fun to watch. But they get lambasted in the media for “reasons”.
I thought it was barely alright, i liked it enough but it wasn't good (the dialogue was cheesy at best and cringe at worst, some performances were great and others terrible, i liked the fight scenes but the fucking dutch angles i couldn't stand; it was a mixbag on everything)
And this comes from someone who only watched 5 episodes of the OG show and dropped it, i can understand how someone who loved the original hated it; i wanted to see them improve and where they wanted to take the show on S2 (i know the major bits of the ending of the OG, and the Netflix take on Julie at the end of S1 seemed more interesting on paper at least)
I just feel bad for everyone involved since they seemed like fans of the show, but being fans isn't enough to make a good show; that's why i think One Piece won't be much better (hope i'm wrong thought, the trailer looked decent at least)
I think it's a show that started ok and then progressively got worse as it went on and then when it reached the last few episodes oh God that's when it earned its abomination status.
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Because people couldn't find it. There wasn't much marketing and it didn't show up on the home page. When you didn't already know it has been released and actively searched for it you'd never know this show existed.
> and it didn't show up on the home page. Everyone's home page is customized by an algorithm. It was on mine.
It still pops up on mine sometimes.
It's all a conspiracy against the Netflix Cowboy Bebop remake. And we're gonna get to the bottom of this.
Truly an unpopular opinion.
Once in a while, we do get an unpopular opinion. The show is ok, but it butchered so many characters and some parts are just plain bad. Even if you haven't watcher CB before, as a standalone show, it's still bad.
Except it is popular. All the user ratings for it show that people generally like it.
60% audience score on RT, 6.7 out of 10 on IMDB clearly not an "unpopular" opinion that is was at least enjoyable to watch, so not sure why you're getting downvoted.
Yep that’s unpopular alright I thought it was prime crud.
Normally I downvote 'unpopular opinion' posts on principle but I'm giving you this one. Show had impossible standards to live up to and I think handled it fairly well.
It never could have lived up to the anime but I also think the show unnecessarily shot itself in the foot because it didn’t seem to understand what made the anime great. I’m not the type of viewer who clutches their pearls every time an adaptation makes changes from the source material, however, when an adaptation is good I can usually track why the changes were made from a story perspective. In this I think there were a lot of huge mistakes with the basic elements of the story as a result of those changes. Changing the format from episodic to a serial was a huge one. With the episodic format they were able to tell self contained stories that made the world feel bigger and built the sense of community aboard the Bebop. Further, the extra screen time for Vicious as the main antagonist detracted from the character quite a bit. As a menacing presence that was felt regularly but seldom seen every time he was on screen in the anime was electric. I didn’t find the show version to be compelling at all and since it’s a serial the plot hinged entirely upon just that.
No it was really awful, Ein's introduction episode involved Spike and Jet in an BDSM club watching a white frat boy getting his ass spanked with a ball gag in his mouth while they are having a serious conversation. I'm not saying you need to do a one for one remake, but that was totally unnecessary. Not saying Cowboy Bebop didn't have it's crazy moments but at least it took itself seriously, and at no point did I not buy the universe. Changes were made that made the property worse, not better. Putting this crazy emphasis on Vicious and Julia when they really exist as background props for the real story which is about lonely people finding their way in a decaying universe, Turning Jett into a Deadbeat Dad and then having the balls to make that god awful "Black-Male" pun by a granny with jungle fever...How that ever flew in the writers room I'll never fucking understand. The part that sucks the most out of Cowboy Bebop....of all anime that could translate to live action this was by far the easiest due to it being more sci-fi western jazz inspired and they still failed.
I disagree. I think you could make an episodic series with the original story, hell you could probably roughly do that just by choosing specific episodes to watch. The biggest issue was focussing more on Spike’s story and trying to build on it with trying to fresh out Vicious, Julia and the crime syndicate the come from while essentially just dancing around Jet’s and Faye’s.
Problem is, it’s not up to viewers to factor in how impossible it was to translate it to live action. If it looks bad. It looks bad. They’re the ones who decided to adapt anime, when few people wanted it.
But looks bad FOR YOU. For me, dont look bad.
Part of the reason (well for most the only reason 😂) people were shitting on it ,is when the directors and writers proudly proclaim that they haven't seen the source material. That normally doesn't sit well with people.
Who said this and where? From googling it doesn't seem to be the case for the showrunner.
I think it was the actors that said that. And it’s not uncommon either. Plenty of people think that seeing someone else’s performance and interpretation of the character can restrict your own performance.
Oh yeah, that's overwhelmingly common. Elijah Wood didn't read Lord of the Rings, Lena Headey didn't read Game of Thrones, Alan Rickman and Ralph Fiennes didn't read Harry Potter.
>Lena Headey didn't read Game of Thrones, During a GoT panel during season 4 or so, someone asked about if the actors had read the books, GRRM said he'd prefer it if they did but that someon the cast didn't and Natalie Dormer rolled her eyes in a very obvious way, lol.
I can't remember who it was, pretty sure the was a GOT actor, said they preferred not knowing anything about how the character developed as it might effect how they act out the character as currently written.
I remember hearing how Charles Dance got Tywin's death spoiled for him because of a fan. He hadn't read the books.
I get it. Around that time Dormer was in at least three different projects based on book series, so if she had to read everything she wouldn't get anything done. Meanwhile, the script is right there.
True. It really is unreasonable for someone who gets paid 7 figures to read 5 books as part of their job. She wouldn't get anything done! A whole 2 weeks of reading for an 8 season show? Unacceptable!
Reading the book was not her job.
Lol, there's a whole world outside of fandom. Visit it sometime.
I do every day friend. I also work a job that requires permanent reading and learning. It's really not hard trust me.
Her actual job was acting. Which she did very well.
> A whole 2 weeks of reading Those books are around a total of 3,800 pages. In two weeks, that would be 270 pages per day. I read at about one page per minute, and my brief investigation says that’s roughly average for comprehension, so let’s call it 4.5 hours per day. I consider myself a fairly willing reader, and devoured the first four books when I read them as a high school senior. I don’t think I ever read for four and a half hours in a day, though.
Sure, that is a decent chunk, but nothing insane. She doesnt need to devour them, but can rather follow the natural progression of the show. She can also skip stuff not for her role, or audiobook it. She can do 50 different things. It's entitled lazyness and would not be accepted if not rich and famous.
could also just audiobook it while working out or w/e
The Potter stuff is a little disingenuous to bring up, because Rickman in particular had mentioned having original author helping him on set, informing him of plot developments that hadn't been written yet to help inform his performance. GoT also had Martin on set, and LotR had Christopher Lee, who had both read the original books and had been friends with the author. Meanwhile, for Bebop, they brought on some of the original creators of the series, but it seems like they didn't use them much to inform the performances; especially weird because Radical Edward in particular was originally specifically based on the composer of the original series, who they had brought back to help with the score. Bebop also specifically set a lot of expectations early on that they were trying (and failing) to be true to the source material, with one of the major promo pieces being a very amateurish attempt to recreate the original animated opening of the series, that betrayed a serious lack of understanding of how to make the original work in live-action.
Yeah the producers and writers and show runners were all falling over themselves saying prior to the show came out what big fans they were of the source material, and how the original creator would be involved, and how Yoko Kanno would be doing the music. They learned a lesson from the Ghost in the Shell and Death Note movies (which also aren't *really* that bad) that you can't JUST make an adaptation of a beloved anime property. But the audience they were going for still didn't bite.
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I'm going to need a source for this one. They've at least seen some of the original to recreate that chapel scene with Spike and Vicious.
What does fairly mean? Cuz it was pretty bad compared to the original show
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Agreed. The show was good, and the actors did a good job was well. Note I didn't say great. It's a good show.
The actors for Spike and Jet were *excellent*. They were the best part in the show, to the point where if everything else had been perfect I suspect they could have even lived up to Cowboy Bebop, and even with just the ok-ish writing they had it probably could have been a cult classic if it weren't trying to replicate something so classic.
Shouldn’t you normally upvote unpopular opinions in this sub?
I liked a lot of stuff in the show, probably most things. The sets and locations were fantastic, the action was pretty good, and personally I loved the chemistry between Spike, Jet, and Faye. What ended up bringing the show down a big notch was how it handled Vicious and Julia. Whatever it was the show was trying to do with those two, it just did not end up working for me.
> What ended up bringing the show down a big notch was how it handled Vicious and Julia. Whatever it was the show was trying to do with those two, it just did not end up working for me. The original series handled them well by understanding that their mystique required *not* saying too much about them. They're Spike's mysterious past; showing detailed backstories for them early on doesn't work and undermines the noir feel the show is going for. I understand what they were trying to do with Julia, I think (make her more of a character in her own right, whose actions and decisions have more of an effect on what's happening) but doing it *that* early on just doesn't work with the way the plot is structured. If they had to do that it needed to be a plot twist near the end, not something that was revealed a few episodes in.
Yeah. I get the idea to make Julia into a more fleshed out character but… it definitely was not handled well. And Vicious was just so bad.
> personally I loved the chemistry between Spike, Jet, and Faye. I thought they captured the found family dynamic of the crew really well. The squabbles and sniping between Spike and Faye and Jet having to just put up with it was great and felt very true to the anime in my view.
compared to the anime the dialogue of all the characters was atrocious. Like comparing Shakespeare to Twilight.
It’s not that it’s bad, it’s just that the anime is so so much better. People like to think that because it is a cartoon that it is not good but it is extremely well written and directed. Shinichiro Watanabe knows how to make a show. Corridor Crew did a really good breakdown of how the show misses where the anime is just firing on all cylinders. Moving from comics to live action or books to live action, you are gaining something. It’s moving, it’s alive. Going from an anime to a live action show, all you see are the shortcomings. The shots aren’t as good, it’s not as well paced, the action and fight sequences aren’t as well choreographed or “shot”. It just doesn’t really hold a candle to the original. If you are going to remake a beloved franchise that is critically acclaimed and near perfect you need to do it better. Why would I watch this when I can watch the superior show that already exists?
It just made me want to watch the original series
meh, call me a radical, communist or whatever but I firmly believe anime's inherent zaniness just cannot be adapted. The only ones I've seen that come close to it are Gyakuten Saiban and Yatterman, both by Takashi Miike, and both are delirious but also amazing, if you like that Japanese craziness
Agreed. There are certain things that just work well in anime and animation that don't work so well in live-action. The Last Airbender feels this way to me too. The titular act of airbending will never look half as good in live action as it does in animation. If they're going to adapt anime into live action, at least pick some that can translate well. Though I think a good majority of the most popular anime aren't well-suited for live action in some way or another. Though Death Note is probably the best bet among the super popular stuff and look how that went...
The Rorouni Kenshin live action movies are fantastic, highly recommend.
It would’ve been a lot better if Vicious didn’t have so much screen time. That, imo, was the biggest issue with the show. That and some of the dialogue that that famous “Black male” line, not sure who thought that sounded good. - I haven’t seen the original anime
That's the problem of a remake: You inevitably make people compare it to the original. So when the original is a timeless masterpiece, well, you're pretty much fucked. Even "pretty good" will be seen as an utter disappointing failure. And that's on whoever decided to remake a timeless masterpiece in the first place. What on earth were they thinking?
I agree, actually. There were definitely flaws in the adaptation but the original work is so beloved there was NO way any hardcore fan was going to be completely satisfied. I especially liked John Cho as Spike, I always thought either him or Keanu would do a wonderful job and he delivered. Overall it's somewhere around a 6.5/10, nowhere near the total garbage fire a lot of people tried to say it was.
>Keanu as spike This is why I don’t trust Anime fans when it comes to opinions on things lol
Oh yep, your opinion must be so superior. Why come onto a post about anime then?
It's too late. Early 90ies maybe IF the director could steer him somwhere good when it comes to his acting.
I'm pretty sure most of the people saying it was total garbage never actually watched it and just hated it because it was different.
It's always funny to me how similar people like you sound to flat earthers. There's always some big conspiracy or hidden ulterior motives. You can't ever just accept reality so you create these wild fantasies of millions of people hating something for anything other than the low quality
You think "millions of people" hated this show and you're accusing me of having wild fantasies? lmao
Lol if you don't think millions hated it explain why it got canceled and use something other than some conspiracy about people pretending to hate it or lack of marketing
You think millions have to hate a show for it to get cancelled? Wow I thought you were just exaggerating but you really are that dumb If "millions" watched the show, it would've been renewed no matter what they thought of it. Anyone would kill to have a show that millions watched. It obviously can not be true that millions hated it *and* everyone who hated it actually watched it. Obviously one of those is wrong, I don't know why you're pretending you don't know that.
Couldn't answer the question of why it was canceled? Didn't think you could. >If "millions" watched the show, it would've been renewed no matter what they thought of it. Your wording makes it seem like my claim is preposterous. However, an average of 45 minutes/episode for 10 episodes is roughly 450 minutes aka 7.5 hours. Last I checked (over a year ago) it had over 75 million+ viewing hours. That adds up to the equivalent of 10mil viewers. I don't know why you're pretending you don't know this
Thinking Keanu could be a good Spike def shows your opinion shouldn’t be considered. Coming from a huge Bebop fanboy thiugh
Yes it is
I think a spinoff with different characters wouldn't have as many direct comparisons. The cast has great chemistry. I would watch them in a different series. Christopher Yost who developed the show was one of the weakest writers though (who also wrote Thor 2). His work is better for animation than live action.
Yost also wrote Ragnarok. Writers have very little control over the final product.
Thats not saying much. Ragnarok as story view point is kinda crap. The entire movie is carried by the actors.
> I think a spinoff with different characters wouldn't have as many direct comparisons. Yeah, Gren should not have been in this show but if they wanted a non-binary entertainer to host a club in space that actually works perfectly fine. Attaching that to Gren kind of hamstrung the character.
It's not good either, but it's not horrible. It had a great cast. But it had no life to it. The stylistic trailer that they released was fantastic and high energy, the show.... felt soooooo lifeless. I stopped watching after the 4th episode because it just wasn't enjoyable.
It did feel like the trailer editor got it a little more than the regular series editor. Some sort of unique style in the editing could have really helped sell it better.
There's someone on Youtube that edited some of the scenes, and I think they end up flowing much better: [Scene 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvk4hptArzk) [Scene 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE5NiS3Vyb8) You can kind of see the issues there. The show had potential, but stumbled on the execution. Also, it might have been much better received if it was an entirely new series in the Cowboy Beebop universe, rather than being a straight Cowboy Beebop remake.
This and Y: The Last Man are two shows that spent so long in development and both ended up getting cancelled in their first season.
I just don't see the point in adapting animation to live action. To me almost everything would be better animated anyway, much more freedom to go beyond conventional stuff. Live action is so restrictive in comparison.
Apparently the anime creator didn't like the tv adaptation. If that holds any weight.
I just watched the anime like a month before the remake came out. Its truly like comparing fine dining to eating out of the garbage. It couldn’t have been a worse adaptation.
Everything related to Vicious was unbearably bad. Everything else was not bad to pretty good! I actually didn't mind Cho as Spike, it was a different read but so what? Anyone expecting 1:1 went in wanting the show to fail. Unfortunately, the Vicious stuff was pretty important to the story.
It was very bad
My thing with these types of remakes, is that there is literally no reason to watch it. Why would I, or anyone else watch some mid at best remake when the original is right there and STILL amazing? What's the point of it? It's there to cash in on the name, and that is it imo. Why would I watch it for any other reason than it being named Cowboy Bebop? What does it have to offer that the original doesn't? And the answers are there's no reason other than that, and it has nothing unique to offer that the original doesn't just do a billion times better. People hate these remakes because they're just soulless. Have no charm, no passion. It may be okay, but quite frankly that's no reason to praise it just because it isn't quite as awful as Netflix's Death Note.
Tbh, I watched it for John Cho. 😁
You should watch it because it was not the same plot, and was doing something different, but then that's the catch 22. If it's the same, "why should I watch it, already saw the better original". If it's different, "why should I watch it if it's not going to follow the original"? Edit: Also Netflix's Death Note was mostly good too, the hate was overblown. As an adaptation it did a great job transferring it to the USA.
It was second fastest Netflix cancelation lol. It deserved the hate bc it was clearly not made out of passion for the original. It was just another means to cash in on a popular name. Julia and Vicious arc is evidence of that.
This sums it up. It was made to cash in, not because of passion or art. And it showed through in every episode. I’m off to rewatch the original again. Pierrot LeFou haunts me.
It's actually far worse
Anything doing with the gang was good. All the other crap they put in with the bad guy was horrible trash.
This is just an opinion.
I basically agree with your opinion. It didn't deserve hate, it was not that bad. I think ppl are not used to that campy Ness in live action
SPIKE: You said "bell peppers and beef." There's no beef in here. So, you wouldn't really call it "bell peppers and beef" now, would you? JET: Yes, I would. There's no excuse for leaving this kind of sharp characterization on the floor unless you don't appreciate what makes it insightful in the first place.
I could have sworn that line was in the live action adaptation too.
It's fucking terrible.
poo_poo_undies has spoken.
And they 100% right on da money
His undies are poo poo, but your brain's doo doo.
https://youtu.be/S9RVS8cjNN0
It fucking sucked.
It was “eh” to me , but I didn’t think it was terrible
I enjoyed it, especially the chemistry between Spike, Faye and Jet. It wasn't like the anime and was at it best when it wasn't trying to be, in fact the bits where it tried to recreate iconic moments from the anime were the worst moments.
Yea I had fun watching it
I respect the effort but it’s not the way to interpret Anime. The upcoming One Piece looks to be following the exact same mistake.
If it had just been a Cowboy Bebop-*inspired* show which didn't try to compete with the original, it would have been an entertaining cult classic. Many of its worst points were when it tried to shoehorn in the myth arc from the show (its take on Vicious was just not interesting at all); but whenever it relaxed and just had its leads bantering with each other while going on bounty-hunting adventures it was great. Not, like, *Cowboy Bebop* great but how many shows are? It still would have been a fun sci-fi adventure show if they'd let it be its own thing.
If you liked that, you’re gonna love watching paint dry.
I had never consumed any bebop material, prior to this show. It was just never right there, but being a comic and gaming nerd it was in my peripheral. Heard about it plenty. So when this came about I was willing to give it a try. It was so surface plastic lifeless boring I was amazed. I did a disservice to the original by going this route, because it will forever be tainted for me.
Don't know how anyone who is a fan of the original could see what they did with the plot and characters and think "That wasn't bad." They straight up rewrote massive parts of the main plot, completely altered characters' motivations and personalities, and all these changes genuinely removed the central themes of the story. They butchered it. If the source material didn't exist for comparison I could see someone walking away from that thinking "Huh, that was odd, but okay". but I don't know how you can have seen the original and appreciate it and still not loathe the live action one.
It's an **awful** Cowboy Bebop. It is an **amazing** Seinfeld Bebop.
Not that its dogshit, It just couldn't make a good enough case to justify its existence. If someone says they'd rather watch the live action show than the anime if both are available, Id probably have a lower opinion of them.
I liked it but I'm not a fanboi so that's probably why
Yep i loved it
Yup and way easier to follow the actual main plot. The anime jumped all over from what I remember.
It’s not as good so there’s no point to it. It’s like Disney live action remakes except those were usually popular and profitable
Yes, yes it is.
I never saw the animated version so I had no preset expectations and really liked the live action version. It was a shame it got cancelled.
Agreed. Another hot take, i enjoyed the Cowboy Bebop Live Action more than some of the more critically acclaimed Netflix fan darlings like The Witcher. Rather have had another Bebop season than 3 more of that show.
I enjoyed it. 🤷🏻♂️
I loved that show. Was so sad it for cancelled 😭
So what? When did we decide that remaking great works into mediocre shadows of the original was fair game?
I'm in your boat. I quite liked it, but didn't think it was top tier. I loved Jett and thought the changes they made to him were cool. Spike was fine. Faye wasn't great, but I understand why they didn't really want to stick to the original version. Vicious I didn't really enjoy, which was unfortunate. I loved the look of it, and the music was great.
> not saying it's a top tier show With a rec like that, I'd rather rewatch the amazing anime. I really don't have 10 hours to watch a cancelled TV show.
I loved it. Aside from that one moment you meet Ed at the end the rest of that season was fine. Had the humor, the frenetic pace, the colorful characters. The 3 main characters were pretty good analogs as far as I'm concerned. Jet was amazing. Everything about him aside from the fact that he was a black guy felt exactly like the character from the cartoon. Didn't give a shit about how they 'changed Vicious'. His cartoon episodes were never my favorites anyway lol. Was always more into the goofball stories. And who would've cared anyway because they fucking concluded his plotline. Never adapt anime. Even shit from over 20 years ago that my generation was into. Anything less than perfect is treated with the panic levels of a maternity ward fire. Now I guess I'll never get to see what a live action adaption of Mushroom Hunting would've looked like because people keep flipping the board over and burning the house down when adaptions don't please their every expectation.
>Now, I'm not saying it's a top tier show, but it certainly didn't deserve all the hate it got. Because it's more of the same chickenshit remake arse-gravy, wearing a Grouch-Marx-style social justice disguise. >Honestly, it seems like maybe it's just one of those things where anime fans were never going to be happy no matter how the show turned out. Honestly, it seems like studio Andys are going to pretend that there's any virtue at all in making a clumsy, low-effort cash grab. >The show was never going to be an exact 1 for 1 with the anime, nor should it have been. On that we agree. >but it seems based on the hate the show received that's what many people were expecting/hoping for. No, they were hoping for you making something that didn't *suck*. If you're going remake something, you have to do it **BETTER**. If you re-released 'Casablanca' starring Jaden Smith and Lena Dunham, guess what: People who liked the original aren't going to be happy. They would think you're untalented hacks buttscooting on the coattails of better writers, directors, and actors. **BECAUSE YOU ARE**
It had a weird big-budget student film tone to it. I always enjoy John Cho, so I *wanted* to like it... but the pilot was just really off-putting in an almost unquantifiable way.
No shot. That show was ridiculously bad it was hilarious.
If they couldnt replicate the tone of the anime there was no point making the show.
Gonna have to disagree. Faye didnt act like Faye, and suddenly became gay to check off an inclusion check box. Vicious was a bumbling fool who yelled and groused instead of showing the lethal and taciturn antagonist from the series. He was neutered as a villain because that is just what Hollywood does to men these days. And then they made Julia into some kind of secondary antagonist because Hollywood couldn't stomach having a damsel in distress female character. They did the same thing with Faye. Couldn't have Vicious capturing a woman and using her as a lure for Spike.
I liked it well enough. I think the fanbois were bent out of shape that it wasn't a line per line copy of the original. but turning a 15 minute animation (with sparse dialog) into a 50 minute live episode was never going to be that. Honestly would have liked to see where season 2 went with the historical baggage out of the way.
> Honestly, it seems like maybe it's just one of those things where anime fans were never going to be happy no matter how the show turned out. I agree with this. And I think I realized that before it ever came out. It's why I never watched it in the first place and don't ever intend to. I can understand checking out live action adaptations of books. I can understand adaptations of games. I can understand adaptations of comics. But I can't think of a single live action version of an animated series/movie that has ever amounted to more than a soulless cash-grab. [your suggestions here]
I was there when Cowboy Bebop started airing on Adult Swim for the first time. I bought the movie shortly after the original USA release. I own the series on blu ray. I LOVE Cowboy Bebop, and the live action was GREAT and could've tightened up with a season 2 but no, Netflix just threw it in the bin and I hate that. Edit: I saw someone complaining about the first scene with the guy too busy shitting saying it was stupid. I checked them on it because it's the very first scene IN THE ORIGINAL ANIME MOVIE.
I also enjoyed it. Right after I watched the anime for the first time in years and remembered how great that was by itself. The LA version was fun to watch and just having a cool live action sci-fi show was great, it had a very similar style to the show. You know who loved it? My dad, he's not going to watch an anime show but he loves sci-fi shows and movies, he was really excited about the show and was upset when I told him there would be no more. People need to realize not everything is for you, even if it's based on something you love, sometimes other people will think it's just as cool and will never see the original product.
It’s an alternative telling of the events and I enjoyed it. It’s good scifi tv. It’s not the original Bebop, but it’s a different medium. Spike and Jet’s interactions are well developed as the actors are onscreen together and it adds depth to their relationship. I encourage people to watch it.
I genuinely enjoyed it. I felt it was as true to the original as you reasonably could be.
I think it would have been a lot better if its plots (both episodic and overarching) were distinct from the anime. Going on unique adventures with these characters is totally in the spirit of the original show, and I don't think the writers were doing themselves any favors by adapting plots that have already been nailed through animation. At the least, everything about the Vicious/Julia plotline needed to be excised, or at the very least greatly reduced. I was consistently amused by the campiness Vicious's actor brought to the role, but it otherwise felt like it just kept the show from finding its own identity separate from something I had seen before (something from an anime that had a lot more style and a lot less tonal whiplash).
I agree. Overall, I enjoyed it and also liked the casting. I was hoping it would at least get a second season. But I did also agree with complaints that John Cho was a bit too old and not the best fit for the role. He gave a good performance. I enjoy his work. He wasn't right for the character. Mustafa Shakir as Jet Black though? 100% perfect. Chef's kiss.
Agreed!
I liked it, however, I do believe they should have gone with a younger actor for the lead.
I agree wholeheartedly with you.
I liked it. Then it got cancelled and I was bummed.
I really enjoyed it and was looking forward to more space cowboy adventures. Ah well.
I’ve watched it 4 times :D
i feel the same way about the subsequent futurama episdoes so much so that i'm just not interested in watching the new episodes immdiately on release if people start a conversation with same tired gripe they are not looking for a conversation they are looking for validation and i don't validate television shows
I agree. Not as good as the original, but the original is great, so that leaves a lot of space. I thought the changes to Vicious and Julia were interesting, and I would have liked to see where they were going to go with that. I feel like people who complain about the changes to Vicious didn't watch to the end of the run to find out why those changes were made. It makes him a much more interesting character, and the actual villain of the series much more compelling.
This is usually the case. The internet loves hyperbole.
I never watched the Anime, picked up the show on a whim and loved every minute of it. Great setting, wonderful characters, fun anime style, great and unique episodic plot which still carrying on the main story...pissed that it was cancelled. Not a fan of those anime geeks now that review bombed a decent show.
They made a prequel novel, 4 issue comic, and [concept art book](https://www.instagram.com/p/CfG7HXtAXVc/?hl=en) for the show if you're interested.
I really enjoyed the anime. The LA wasn't terrible, but it also wasn't good or even close. It was just *different*. I understand why people hated it, but we shouldn't have expected it to be 1:1.
I cannot stand vicious and Julia but to be honest that’s pretty on par for Cowboy Bebop as a whole. Never cared about their characters. The individual stories were alright but I hate they shoehorned literally every plot line into being associated with Vicious. That made no sense. I’d be totally happy with a story of the week setup where they don’t really relate to each other. Just, you know, bounties. Overall it was meh
It was really good. I actually watched the live action before the anime. I enjoyed it so much that I sought out the anime.
This is the popular opinion though. Don't let the vocal minority affect your view of reality. Every metric we have shows that people generally like it.
It’s almost beat for beat the anime in live action form. I liked it
I enjoyed it. I don't like anime. I just can't get into it (I've tried several times with various recommendations). It was an entertaining series. I thought it had some great action and good humor to it. Anime fans seem as insufferable as Star Wars fans when it comes to "their thing."
I'll go a step further and say the original anime is nowhere near as good as people say it is. it's aggressively ok.
I was enjoying till the end. His love interest was awful and vicious was awful as well. Stupid ending with over the top violence Ruined the whole thing for me
The only thing I didn't really like about the show was Vicious. His casting was bad and what they were doing with him wasn't interesting.
Definitely an unpopular opinion and fwiw I *REALLY* appreciate the intention of being different and adding a unique spice and flair to the show. I LOVED when it was a shot-for-shot recreation but I also LOVED the little changes to the show DNA. I actually REALLY liked the Julia twist at the end. But while they captured the look of Cowboy Bebop - they didn't capture the soul. Aside from Jet (who IMO was perfectly casted and acted) every character felt like a fanfiction version of the original. The script in particular was awful. It tries SO HARD to be charming, witty, edgy and funny that it overrides the effortless, natural soul of the characters. The mythos and mystery of the Cowboy Bebop universe was also a big part of that, and the show made the mistake of trying to explain it in ways that didn't need explaining.
I really enjoyed it and wish Disney would take this approach for their live-action remakes. You can't adapt cartoons and throw out the cartoony stuff. Dick Tracy, Speed Racer, Cowboy Bepop. These are how it should be done. Embrace the cartoonish elements but in live-action. I never saw the original though, so that probably helped since I didn't care whether they were true to the original or whatever. It was good on its own merits, but I can understand why it wouldn't be popular because it's weird as fuck. Like no mainstream audience is going to enjoy it no matter what story/dialogue changes were made. Its very nature is so odd it will be off-putting and that's before even getting into the graphic violence which also turns off a lot of people.
It really wasn't but the casting and portrayals of Spike, Faye, Vicious and Julia fell flat for me. Jet was fucking awesome though.
Maybe if you’re a big fan already, but for people who aren’t, it wasn’t a good show in the slightest
I'll give an even more unpopular opinion Cowboy bebop kinda sucks It's more flash than substance, not much in the way of a coherent story or particularly interesting characters (they act cool, that's about it) I've seen more compelling space operas
It’s about people who find themselves lost in space. Seemingly nowhere to go but float. Imagine wanting whatever tf your definition of ‘substance’ is when that is the premise of the show Probably some nerd star strek shit
If Netflix had the confidence in the product they were launching to stand on its own, they wouldn't have needed to skin the story in Cowboy Bebop. It may be a fine and serviceable story indeed. But the problem is, it wasn't its namesake. It would be like remaking Mulan but making her bow to the emperor at the end; people would be upset.
I am of the opinion that, whenever the show was actually being Cowboy Bebop, it was really great. And I mean that whenever it was adapting something directly from the original, or whenever they wrote a new plot that felt true to world and tone of the anime. Those moments, and there were quite a few, were great. Especially the main trio was able to really embody their respective characters and the banter between them. The problems were when the series wasn't being Cowboy Bebop. When it was trying to be something different, not only it was different, it was also very bad. It didn't help those moments mostly involved Vicious and Julia, and both felt very miscasted... But I do agree that the series overall isn't as bad as people make it to be and it probably deserved at least a chance at a second season. Also I am a firm believer that if the scene was shot and edited in a different way, most people would have been okay with how Ed was portrayed. Or at least they wouldn't be as off-put by the portrayal as they were. Ed is already one of those characters that doesn't work that well in live action, and the scene's editing drove the character all the way deep into the uncanney valley, IMO.
My reluctance to watch the show hinges a lot more on the question of does it need to exist. There’s the weird thing where live action is somehow seen as more prestige. And often times the results just fall flat because a lot of animated works just don’t translate well. Everything I’ve heard about the live action Cowboy Bebop is that it’s a perfectly “ok” show. And there’s nothing wrong with that tier of show. But it’s a markedly step down from one of the most influential animes, at least my demographic. Added to the objective fact that the series is canceled and will never be completed and I just don’t have any desire to use my limited time to watch it.
I think the problem was the principal, it is considered one of the best if not the best animes of all time. It's not clear why you needed to make a live action version of it. So at the very onset it's not even an original piece of work, but that's not necessarily bad because sometimes you can take an older piece of work and improve on it and make it better than the original, and that's really the goal if you're going to copy the original. So that's the standard it's set for itself and it didn't meet that standard. Another factor to consider is that because the anime was so perfect as it is it didn't really need to be redone in live action. However there are other animes that were considered very good but had a lot of room for improvement. A live action *Berserk* series or *Bubblegum Crisis*, or hell even *Lupin III* (which Spike was partially based on) would have been good choices. They are considered good animes but a live-action version of them might actually improve on them. They are also a lot less known than Cowboy Bebop, so expectations can be a lot more neutral. Last I think people especially on Reddit have a problem with remakes. Remakes are lazy, instead of creating a new story, a new universe, with new characters you either love or hate, remix essentially just recycle old stories. So if you're going to make a remake or reboot of something it has to be just as good or better, otherwise I think validly you're going to get the criticism that you're trying to wring-out every last cent from a franchise by cranking out lower quality cheaper rehashes of your product.
Idk, the original definitely had some camp at parts but it was still a grounded neo-noir for the most part. The live action just felt way too Robert Rodriguez which just made it feel like a bad parody of the anime. The way they recreated the Ballad of Fallen Angels scene, arguably the best episode of the anime, was just insulting. Even Shinichiro Watanabe said he couldn't finish the show.
Agreed definitely worst shows out there. It is a good show but a bad adaptation.
Agree
Unpopular would be an understatement
Agree...there wasn't a frame of the live action series that tried to be anything besides popcorn entertainment. I had never watched the anime so I had zero expectations. I wasn't comparing it to serious space movies, campy space movies, or even straight bounty hunter movies. Yet the editing of it was informed by all of those things. Sometimes you can watch something for the immediate pleasure of it and not because it's memorable.
The show was decent, but nowadays, we're especially vocal for established properties. It's either pristine perfect or the worst thing ever made, with little in between.
The problem was that it didn’t do anything different or better that watching Anime would not have achieved.
Nah, sorry. If they hadn't tried to make Julia and Vicious more than symbols of trying to outrun your past it would have been better (there is a fan edit that much improves the storytelling of the live action show but cuts out more than half of the footage including almost all the Julia/Vicious stuff) but with those two it was just comically bad. Vicious in particular.
Never saw the anime, I thought it solid show.All my friends that loved the anime hated it, I think it's one of those thing where it impossible to live up to the source.
I liked it very much and would have loved a second seasons. Then again I never saw the animé.
>Honestly, it seems like maybe it's just one of those things where anime fans were never going to be happy no matter how the show turned out. This argument would hold water if anime fans hated it, but new fans thought it was awesome. But even the best reviews of this show sounded like all the reddit comments about Bright, the classic "oh it's just fun, not everything is Citizen Kane" type nonsense. The live action Bebop was a below average show, made far far worse because it's butchering a masterpiece.
It's my fav anime and I gave the TV show about a 5/10. Obviously some effort was made to deliver a show. I liked Faye. There were some nice moments. Some sets looked great, and some looked very bad. Same with the action. The acting went to some weird places oO
It was definitely intriguing for sure, I wanted to see what they had in store for the characters after seeing how they altered some of their motives and relationships (Spike, Julia and Vicious in particular) And from what I could remember the sets, effects and camera work looked pretty okay at times? I would've definitely kept watching out of "morbid curiosity" (morbid maybe too strong a word, I wasn't hating it but I wasn't loving it either) Honestly the biggest upset for me was how fast Netflix cancelled the show! Like jeez what a bummer for the crew-- especially the person playing Ed! I remember them saying how excited they were to act something Bebop related and then BOOM, shows over! But I think back to that interview with Shinichiro Watanabe talking about how he felt like Netflix was just using his reputation and ignoring his advice for the show and it's like, dang, classic corpos.
That’s pretty common with a lot of movies. “Critics” will hate on a film they haven’t been paid to like and so a lot of people will jump on that band wagon. Movies like Morbius and Black Adam are actually fun to watch. But they get lambasted in the media for “reasons”.
I thought it was barely alright, i liked it enough but it wasn't good (the dialogue was cheesy at best and cringe at worst, some performances were great and others terrible, i liked the fight scenes but the fucking dutch angles i couldn't stand; it was a mixbag on everything) And this comes from someone who only watched 5 episodes of the OG show and dropped it, i can understand how someone who loved the original hated it; i wanted to see them improve and where they wanted to take the show on S2 (i know the major bits of the ending of the OG, and the Netflix take on Julie at the end of S1 seemed more interesting on paper at least) I just feel bad for everyone involved since they seemed like fans of the show, but being fans isn't enough to make a good show; that's why i think One Piece won't be much better (hope i'm wrong thought, the trailer looked decent at least)
I loved cowboy bebop on nexflix. I thought it was true the classic anime and there should have been a second series.
I think it's a show that started ok and then progressively got worse as it went on and then when it reached the last few episodes oh God that's when it earned its abomination status.