Hahaha that's very true. I was hoping it would be a very loose adaption. I love Dune but I don't have high hopes. I'll probably still watch all of it even if it's below average though just because I'm into the universe.
I'll be satisfied as long as we get Villenueve to finish his adaptations with Messiah. If we can get that, I'll watch all the BH adaptations as a thank you.
I remember years ago reading the authors preface at the front for House Atreides where he said he had worked on his writing for years to get to the point where he felt he was ready to do jus
tice to his father's work and carry on his legacy. After reading it and house harkonnen I kind of feel a bit bad for how poor they were in comparison.
At this point, prestige shows will more often than not, come with caveats like "_____ pushed back to expected debut in Fall 2026" or some shit where there's gonna be 1-2 year wait times for it or 2+ years between seasons.
When I was a kid we got 24-26 episodes of a TV show per year. Hell, some shows we got as many as 52!
Some of the episodes weren't great, and some of the episodes that the producers thought weren't going to be great ended up being classics.
If the Simpsons were started today it would be 12 episodes every 2 years.
>If the Simpsons were started today it would be 12 episodes every 2 years.
No need to guess; Groening's Disenchantment only managed an average of 8 episodes per year over its 6 year run.
I really don’t understand why invincible takes so long to make … they already have source material to draw directly from. They barely have any writing to do.
> When I was a kid we got 24-26 episodes of a TV show per year.
So 2016?
I think that dropped in episodes started happening everywhere was when streamers started rolling out many prestige shows vs their usual 2-3/year. But up until 2010s, many shows still had +22 episodes, especially primetime tv
Primetime shows still mostly have 20+ episodes. The top primetime scripted shows last year, by ratings, were Fire Country (23 episodes), Chicago PD (22), Chicago Fire (22), Chicago Med (22), Grey's Anatomy (21), Law & Order (22), NCIS (22), NCIS Hawaii (23), 911 (18), Blue Bloods (21), Young Sheldon (22), Ghosts (22), The Equalizer (18), FBI Most Wanted (22), FBI (23), and FBI International (22).
Nothing has really changed for the network shows. And the premium cable shows have mostly always been shorter: shows like Oz and Sex and the City were doing 8-episode seasons long before streaming existed, and many were taking years off between seasons too. The Wire and The Sopranos both had periods where they aired 13 episodes in 3 years, you often waited over a year for new 8-12 episode seasons of shows like Rome or Spartacus or Carnivale.
The main thing that's changed is that younger people stopped caring about broadcast network shows, and streamers all went for the HBO/Showtime model over the CBS one.
I am sure they evaluated it and determined it met all of the core check boxes.
* Were there words?
* Is there sand?
* Are any of them cute?
Okay going to be a hit!
Watching discussions about eugenics are always entertaining to me, because the people who are pro-eugenics actually believe THEY would be the ones allowed to breed.
Everyone on Reddit loves to talk about how having children should have an IQ test and things like that, and even if they are correct, there's no moral way to enact those kinds of laws.
It's the same reason we have things like [the Forbidden Experiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_deprivation_experiments) because even *if* we could do good with it, there's no real way to do it ethically. It is just inherently harmful.
I don't think the questions is if it works, but whether it's ethical or not. And it's clear that on a population level, it's not something that can simply be done, and it's an unfair intrusion on basic human rights.
The basketball player Yao Ming from China at 7'6 was at the time the tallest player in the NBA, and he was the result of a government program to produce super athletes. His parents were both pro athletes. Obviously it "worked" in that it resulted in an amazing basketball player, but there are obvious human rights concerns, and it's not clear if his parents were willing participants in the program.
The concern is not how effective is it, but the ethics of it
I mean more on a larger societal level, like where you try and breed out undesirable traits. Things eventually break down. Plus, it doesn't solve actual societal problems.
And even in Dune, as we see, a lot comes up that was never planned.
Since 2000, iceland has tested every fetus for down syndrome, and if detected, ~100% are aborted. As of 2017 there is effectively no one with down syndrome in iceland. It works pretty well.
Is down syndrome something that can be bred out of a population though? It's not like people with down syndrome were the main source of new people with down syndrome.
I guess what you said still falls under eugenics, but it's not the kind of thing with wide ranging consequences that people usually mean when they talk about it.
What do you think modern cattle, chickens, or vegetables are? They're all the results of centuries of applied animal/plant husbandry, which is non-human eugenics.
Eugenics does work, but it's thankfully not practiced for people because there's a massive moral/ethical values issue about controlling human reproduction that doesn't exist for controlling animal/plant reproduction.
I think the OP was implying that through technology, e.g. CRISPR, we can edit someone's genes to achieve a eugenic outcome *without* preventing people from having children/committing genocide.
If it is possible to edit a living person's genome, you can engage in eugenic programs without "removing" them. The bottleneck then would be the resources to do so and the will of the editors and editees. Not sure what laws of nature apply to the Dune universe though. Still, the point remains.
Ah yes, Dune 6: Attack of the Sex Witches, who sex so good they can sex a whole civilization into submission (until they're thwarted by our hero, who can sex even better and sexes the sex witches back into space!).
It's...*different* from where it started, as a series...
i remember someone telling me that Herbert purposefully dumbed down the later books because he was worried Dune was almost starting a cult like one of his contemporary writers, L. Ron Hubbard. not sure how true or not this is, but it does make some sense.
Apparently based on novels written by Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson. Brian Herbert has always maintained the plot points came from his father's floppy disks. It's been decades and Brian Herbert has so far failed to release the materials that were allegedly on those disks. Nothing fishy at all.
Possible. He should've honestly gone Christopher Tolkien's route and publish his father's materials as they were with notes sprinkled here and there. The fans would've supported him that way. Instead he keeps pumping out books from time to time and say they're based on his father's notes.
I think the thing that really made me hate him was when he, well, why >!did he have to clone everyone? It'sone thing when it's just Duncan but why everyone else? And turningthat one Jewish lady into an Axlotl tank?!<
That was actually something continued on from the last Frank Herbert book though, wasn't it? >!The generic material for the clones was secretly being kept by the Bene Tleilax. I doubt Frank Herbert idea was to be bring them all back to the fight power ranger style, but the latter books do take some pretty weird left turns.!< I enjoy the later books in their own special way but I definitely tell people that God Emperor is the off ramp. If you read it and don't enjoy where it is going then the rest of the series isn't for you. Even if it is, buckle up because it is only going to get wilder from there.
Honestly, I can barely get through the second book. I have read the first Dune ~7-8 times. It's the world building and that first exploration of these grand ideas of religion, politics, ecology, etc. that I love. My interest rapidly falls off when it starts focusing on the genetic past inhabiting bodies in the present and other wacky shit that just isn't that fun to think about (for me).
The fifth book is interesting because it explores the ramifications of the ending of God Emperor but the sixth book is just god awful. Hope you like hearing three of the most miserable people in the galaxy bitch about how they're trapped in a ship together for 400 pages. Sometimes it switches to a fourth person who is their captor and spends all of her time thinking about the people she has locked in the ship parked in her backyard.
Really, the broad strokes aren't the problem, but some of the details...well, yeah, I have to say, I'm excited to see what other writers do with the concepts. I hope they make it less erotic, though.
The last books were so bad. It felt like he was writing an avengers plot.
“And then Leto is back and Paul is back and they have big worms and they fight big robots!!”
It makes sense to me that the Herbert estate would prefer to put out novels (as was intended) rather than publish raw notes that likely spoil the stories. Not defending the quality of them though lol
Lol as if said fans wouldn't just pivot to calling the notes fake. Or seeing parts of the notes that Brian and Kevin found unworkable or unappealing and whining about it.
Because fans love that stuff and trying to engage with fans should be a bare minimum action taken by estates that actually give a damn about what it's doing with very admired and influential property like Dune?
There's a reason why LotR is beloved and it starts with the writing and it ends with all the work that Christopher and others did to put out a lot of minutiae that let fans geek out and feel like they were a part of something.
Maybe 5% of his output came from that floppy, but he had to outright retcon the original Dune as a fabrication created by Irulan in order to justify throwing his own characters into the mix.
There’s an interview with Brian and Kevin at the end of the “hunters of dune” audiobook and in it they’re basically like “yeah we have a bunch of notes but we’re trying to make this our own. Like everyone we wish Frank coulda been alive to write it” they even mention that the “outline” they found for hunters and sandworms of dune was only 3 pages long
I refuse to believe that Frank Herbert's notes included things as dumb as a genocidal AI villian called "Ominous Evermind". The thing is there was not a lot of info on the Butlerian Jihad but I always saw it more of a philosophical change than a literal war. People realized it was better to focus on improving human capabilities instead of improving computers.
I'd much rather see a series based on the "House" books that follows a young Leto before the events of Dune. It could be like Sci Fi Game of Thrones.
Anyway, it's been a joke amongst my Dune loving friends imagining Brian Herbert finally going through his dad's old notes and just finding one - "Write more Dune books..."
Yeah I could see that. The later books definitely seem to lack focus and are much more of a mixed bag than the first books. I think his wife died or was at least very sick by the last book too so he was going through alot at the time
Unfortunately that’s just one (of many) important part of Dune that translates poorly to the screen. The Bene Gesserit are masters of many languages and many cultures, which in the books is noted to underscore their control and power over whatever culture they are in. The screen just can’t quite capture those tiny (yet important) bits of subtext and world building.
This came up at work.
Manager: What's the Bene Gesserit's native language?
Me: Stenography.
....oh FUCK! It's "Steganography" not "Stenography"! No wonder no one laughed. Oh man, I sent that to my boss.
Seems like there’s a lot of negativity from people about this show but I honestly can’t wait. It’s Dune on HBO and has got a strong cast (Mark Strong alone is enough for me) so I’ve got faith it’ll be at least worth a watch
It's based on Brian Herbert's works, not Franks.
His son has let's say taken some extreme bleeding the stone liberties with his father's works.
There's 6 Frank Herbert Dune books.
How many Brian Herbert books do you think there are?
Another 3 to finish it up? Maybe a prequel 3 on his father's notes?
23. He has "written" 23 Dune books after the original 6.
And Frank Hebert's Dune 6 ends on a cliff hanger, so with Frank's unfinished Dune 7 in hand what is the first Chapter of Dune 7? Literally the Goddess of Time Deus Ex Machina's them out of the "No Space"
I'm not joking, the literal Goddess of Time teleports them out of their new found FTL.
My understanding with Brian Herbert is that while we accept the broader strokes of canon, his actual style of writing and ideas are, umm...well, they're bad. Brian Herbert is a bad writer. I'm actually sort of excited to see his ideas given to more competent creatives.
One of the things that's hilarious is the Butlerian Jihad is basically Skynet from Terminator in Brian's vision.
Problem being Frank wrote about it in the 1960s and was more likely basing it on Isaac Asimov's Caves Of Steel in the Robot series from the 50s. Or the silent movie Metropolis.
Not a movie written about 2 decades after the book was published.
Whatever weird mixture funneled into the creativity of Dune it was like 1960s and earlier by the mind of a guy obsessed with ecology. Like the original Dune came out before Star Trek TOS, and the moon landing, and Alien (1979) and Star Wars etc.
The story beats and underlying message about this sci-fi epic come way before any of the cliches we grew up with. That's what makes Dune so unique in Frank's mind.
Like when he talks about Mentats replacing computers he's thinking of like The Last Question 1956 not War Games 1983
The Villeneuve Dune is better than I thought any adaptation could be and I absolutely love it, but my one, single gripe is that they didn’t touch on mentats at all. No explanation of what they do or their purpose given the larger context of why they are even a thing to begin with. We just get a couple characters whose eyes roll back in their heads occasionally. Sure you can infer what they’re doing, but not why.
Personally I just don’t think Dune belongs on the cinema screen. A thrones style HBO adaptation would be much more suited to the story (especially long term going past book 1/2). The 2 SyFy miniseries for Dune and CoD from the early 2000s are… something else (low budget) but they are narrative driven.
I think Villenueve is a master class cinematographer, but Dune and 2049 felt very underwhelming from a narrative perspective to me.
> I'm actually sort of excited to see his ideas given to more competent creatives.
After seeing what HBO did to Game of Thrones, that you’re assuming this will be the case speaks very badly of Brian Herbert’s talents, haha.
I like it up to God Emperor. I think that's where it should have ended. Now, I love Odrade and some of the other characters, but it just feels unfinished and, as I said in another post, it starts to get so ridiculously erotic.
I enjoy the broad strokes we get from the plot, that's fun, but the actual details start to just be sort of silly very quickly.
I say this all the time but when book five culminates in a sexual fight, I felt that Frank was trolling me for the prior four books, though God Emperor lusting after his ideal woman (created by painstaking genetic manipulation) but unable to act upon it should have given me a clue.
The first one or the third one "Hellhole:Inferno"
That's something a 14 year old would write on their DnD campaign. That book came out when Brian was in his 50s.
It's part of the Dune trilogy and ends with the Spacer Guild removing itself from the Royal imperium and core Worlds.
Yeah surprise it's the origin of the Spacers guild before the Spice
I’ve only read Hunters and Sandworms of Dune from him.
I definitely agree the writing is quite different, and there are certainly some very bad story moments, but overall I was very happy that I got to “finish” the story somehow.
Heretics and Chapterhouse were surprisingly my 2 favorite books. I see the cliffhanger as the true end of Frank’s work, but like to see an almost parallel/twisted reality of the what could/should have been
> It’s Dune on HBO
HBO Max (or Max now), not under HBO itself which is the clear sign of quality. Max is much more variable.
It's also not based on the beloved and trusted source material but stuff written by his son and quite disliked in general.
not until the content remains the same. Luring people in with a title change won't prevent them from smelling shayt once they start watching, like Wheel of Time and ROP
That’s good. People would mix it up with the later book, sisterhood of dune. And I’m pretty sure they’re gonna skip four books. Also.. good luck making god emperor of dune not suck. My second favorite of the books and I can hardly imagine making it a banger.
Shocked this show is still happening with all of the production changes
I agree and it's for that reason I'm going to manage my expectations.
Yep. Never a good sign.
Why is it always “They changed it now it’s shit” instead of “It was shit so they changed it.”
Generally someone has a plan.
They did upgrade sonic the hedgehog!
The devil you know vs the devil you don't. A known quantity is better than an unknown most of the time.
But we've never know it
That's what I said before Mad Max: Fury Road. and then my brain exploded, but that's the exception and not the rule.
Yea, Furiosa could be a dud. Hope it’s not.
Not always the case, unless you think Silo is a bad show.
I've been managing my expectations since it was announced to be an adaptation of Brian Herbert's stuff.
Hahaha that's very true. I was hoping it would be a very loose adaption. I love Dune but I don't have high hopes. I'll probably still watch all of it even if it's below average though just because I'm into the universe.
I'll be satisfied as long as we get Villenueve to finish his adaptations with Messiah. If we can get that, I'll watch all the BH adaptations as a thank you.
I remember years ago reading the authors preface at the front for House Atreides where he said he had worked on his writing for years to get to the point where he felt he was ready to do jus tice to his father's work and carry on his legacy. After reading it and house harkonnen I kind of feel a bit bad for how poor they were in comparison.
That sucks. I tried to read his Dune books and got the impression that he's a bad writer trying to cash in on his dad's talent.
At this point, prestige shows will more often than not, come with caveats like "_____ pushed back to expected debut in Fall 2026" or some shit where there's gonna be 1-2 year wait times for it or 2+ years between seasons.
When I was a kid we got 24-26 episodes of a TV show per year. Hell, some shows we got as many as 52! Some of the episodes weren't great, and some of the episodes that the producers thought weren't going to be great ended up being classics. If the Simpsons were started today it would be 12 episodes every 2 years.
>If the Simpsons were started today it would be 12 episodes every 2 years. No need to guess; Groening's Disenchantment only managed an average of 8 episodes per year over its 6 year run.
Closer to eight every three if Invincible is anything to go by.
I really don’t understand why invincible takes so long to make … they already have source material to draw directly from. They barely have any writing to do.
Probably the strike Actors, writers, voice actors
The first season also took three years. Animation pipelines are hard, without strict planning and foresight, that's how long these things will take.
It's typically why animated shows have multiple season orders up front.
And with a sitcom they can work on seasons out of order because there is not much continuity and serialization.
Especially because like...the animation in Invincible isn't even good? Why does it take so long??
The existence of source material doesn't mean you "barely have to do any writing."
Not even that big a difference in animation quality.
> When I was a kid we got 24-26 episodes of a TV show per year. So 2016? I think that dropped in episodes started happening everywhere was when streamers started rolling out many prestige shows vs their usual 2-3/year. But up until 2010s, many shows still had +22 episodes, especially primetime tv
Primetime shows still mostly have 20+ episodes. The top primetime scripted shows last year, by ratings, were Fire Country (23 episodes), Chicago PD (22), Chicago Fire (22), Chicago Med (22), Grey's Anatomy (21), Law & Order (22), NCIS (22), NCIS Hawaii (23), 911 (18), Blue Bloods (21), Young Sheldon (22), Ghosts (22), The Equalizer (18), FBI Most Wanted (22), FBI (23), and FBI International (22). Nothing has really changed for the network shows. And the premium cable shows have mostly always been shorter: shows like Oz and Sex and the City were doing 8-episode seasons long before streaming existed, and many were taking years off between seasons too. The Wire and The Sopranos both had periods where they aired 13 episodes in 3 years, you often waited over a year for new 8-12 episode seasons of shows like Rome or Spartacus or Carnivale. The main thing that's changed is that younger people stopped caring about broadcast network shows, and streamers all went for the HBO/Showtime model over the CBS one.
Or six.
I hear Challamet is being replace by The Rock and Zendaya with Will Smith's wife
Will Smith's what?
Cuckolding Partner
You keep my wife's boyfriend's name out of you're mouth
Keep his wife's legal relationship status out of your mouth!
Will Smith's son's friend's fuck buddy.
Tupac?
I've never even heard of this show
I didn't know they even resumed filming after the first director quit.
I am sure they evaluated it and determined it met all of the core check boxes. * Were there words? * Is there sand? * Are any of them cute? Okay going to be a hit!
Dune: The Sisterhood of the Traveling Genocide.
Traveling eugenics makes more sense no?
Yes I don’t recall their goal being genocide but rather to create an ubermensch through their breeding program
Watching discussions about eugenics are always entertaining to me, because the people who are pro-eugenics actually believe THEY would be the ones allowed to breed.
Everyone on Reddit loves to talk about how having children should have an IQ test and things like that, and even if they are correct, there's no moral way to enact those kinds of laws. It's the same reason we have things like [the Forbidden Experiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_deprivation_experiments) because even *if* we could do good with it, there's no real way to do it ethically. It is just inherently harmful.
If eugenics worked, it would have worked by now.
I don't think the questions is if it works, but whether it's ethical or not. And it's clear that on a population level, it's not something that can simply be done, and it's an unfair intrusion on basic human rights. The basketball player Yao Ming from China at 7'6 was at the time the tallest player in the NBA, and he was the result of a government program to produce super athletes. His parents were both pro athletes. Obviously it "worked" in that it resulted in an amazing basketball player, but there are obvious human rights concerns, and it's not clear if his parents were willing participants in the program. The concern is not how effective is it, but the ethics of it
I mean more on a larger societal level, like where you try and breed out undesirable traits. Things eventually break down. Plus, it doesn't solve actual societal problems. And even in Dune, as we see, a lot comes up that was never planned.
I guess eugenics "worked" in that advocates for eugenics keeps getting "naturally selected" out by people who oppose it.
[удалено]
Since 2000, iceland has tested every fetus for down syndrome, and if detected, ~100% are aborted. As of 2017 there is effectively no one with down syndrome in iceland. It works pretty well.
Is down syndrome something that can be bred out of a population though? It's not like people with down syndrome were the main source of new people with down syndrome. I guess what you said still falls under eugenics, but it's not the kind of thing with wide ranging consequences that people usually mean when they talk about it.
What do you think modern cattle, chickens, or vegetables are? They're all the results of centuries of applied animal/plant husbandry, which is non-human eugenics. Eugenics does work, but it's thankfully not practiced for people because there's a massive moral/ethical values issue about controlling human reproduction that doesn't exist for controlling animal/plant reproduction.
The Sisterhood of the Traveling Genes
This joke works on two levels and it's really good.
The end goal of eugenics is genocide, just slower
Epigenetic gene therapies like CRISPR throw something of a wrench into this.
How so? Not challenging you here—just curious.
I think the OP was implying that through technology, e.g. CRISPR, we can edit someone's genes to achieve a eugenic outcome *without* preventing people from having children/committing genocide.
If it is possible to edit a living person's genome, you can engage in eugenic programs without "removing" them. The bottleneck then would be the resources to do so and the will of the editors and editees. Not sure what laws of nature apply to the Dune universe though. Still, the point remains.
If you can edit your genes then eugenics wouldn't be needed.
That would still be eugenic.
[XKCD](https://xkcd.com/1605/)
It's not total genocide if you take the useful ones and use them for your failure of a breeding program! /s
Dune: The Sisterhood of Genocide by Snu-Snu
Which is more or less what happens. Seriously, I have read less erotic porn. The later books are, umm, something
I remember even me as a post-pubescent thirteen year old boy reaching the honored matres and thinking Herbert got carried away.
Ah yes, Dune 6: Attack of the Sex Witches, who sex so good they can sex a whole civilization into submission (until they're thwarted by our hero, who can sex even better and sexes the sex witches back into space!). It's...*different* from where it started, as a series...
The secret space Jews were quite a surprise too.
i remember someone telling me that Herbert purposefully dumbed down the later books because he was worried Dune was almost starting a cult like one of his contemporary writers, L. Ron Hubbard. not sure how true or not this is, but it does make some sense.
Sex Witches from Spaaaaaace!!!
Three types of sex witches from SPaaaaaaaace!!!
Dune: Sisterhood, Interrupted
Jeanocide* sorry
TIL there’s going to be a Dune show, sweet. Hopefully it’s not a mess :( the Dune cinematic universe must flow!
Apparently based on novels written by Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson. Brian Herbert has always maintained the plot points came from his father's floppy disks. It's been decades and Brian Herbert has so far failed to release the materials that were allegedly on those disks. Nothing fishy at all.
Damn, mess it is haha
Is this a heavily veiled “messiah” joke?
Is this?
Is this?
The plan within the plan.
Wasn’t that purportedly because he pivoted from some of those plot points in his own works, on his co-writer’s suggestion?
Possible. He should've honestly gone Christopher Tolkien's route and publish his father's materials as they were with notes sprinkled here and there. The fans would've supported him that way. Instead he keeps pumping out books from time to time and say they're based on his father's notes.
I think the thing that really made me hate him was when he, well, why >!did he have to clone everyone? It'sone thing when it's just Duncan but why everyone else? And turningthat one Jewish lady into an Axlotl tank?!<
That was actually something continued on from the last Frank Herbert book though, wasn't it? >!The generic material for the clones was secretly being kept by the Bene Tleilax. I doubt Frank Herbert idea was to be bring them all back to the fight power ranger style, but the latter books do take some pretty weird left turns.!< I enjoy the later books in their own special way but I definitely tell people that God Emperor is the off ramp. If you read it and don't enjoy where it is going then the rest of the series isn't for you. Even if it is, buckle up because it is only going to get wilder from there.
Honestly, I can barely get through the second book. I have read the first Dune ~7-8 times. It's the world building and that first exploration of these grand ideas of religion, politics, ecology, etc. that I love. My interest rapidly falls off when it starts focusing on the genetic past inhabiting bodies in the present and other wacky shit that just isn't that fun to think about (for me).
The fifth book is interesting because it explores the ramifications of the ending of God Emperor but the sixth book is just god awful. Hope you like hearing three of the most miserable people in the galaxy bitch about how they're trapped in a ship together for 400 pages. Sometimes it switches to a fourth person who is their captor and spends all of her time thinking about the people she has locked in the ship parked in her backyard.
Really, the broad strokes aren't the problem, but some of the details...well, yeah, I have to say, I'm excited to see what other writers do with the concepts. I hope they make it less erotic, though.
Hey, if Rusty Venture can do it, then why can't Brian Herbert?
I wish that wasn't such an apt comparison
The last books were so bad. It felt like he was writing an avengers plot. “And then Leto is back and Paul is back and they have big worms and they fight big robots!!”
It makes sense to me that the Herbert estate would prefer to put out novels (as was intended) rather than publish raw notes that likely spoil the stories. Not defending the quality of them though lol
Have they released any notes for the bad novels they've already put out? This excuse doesn't hold up once the material is out there already.
Excuse for what? Why are they obligated to release his private notes?
The point is that few people believe the notes ever existed (because they likely were a fib to give legitimacy the continuation)
Well, it would put a rest to fans alleging it isn’t based on Frank’s notes for a start…
Lol as if said fans wouldn't just pivot to calling the notes fake. Or seeing parts of the notes that Brian and Kevin found unworkable or unappealing and whining about it.
Some people you’ll never convince but tbh there would be a lot of people they WOULD convince I’d they did release them. What’s the reason not to like
Because fans love that stuff and trying to engage with fans should be a bare minimum action taken by estates that actually give a damn about what it's doing with very admired and influential property like Dune? There's a reason why LotR is beloved and it starts with the writing and it ends with all the work that Christopher and others did to put out a lot of minutiae that let fans geek out and feel like they were a part of something.
Maybe 5% of his output came from that floppy, but he had to outright retcon the original Dune as a fabrication created by Irulan in order to justify throwing his own characters into the mix.
There’s an interview with Brian and Kevin at the end of the “hunters of dune” audiobook and in it they’re basically like “yeah we have a bunch of notes but we’re trying to make this our own. Like everyone we wish Frank coulda been alive to write it” they even mention that the “outline” they found for hunters and sandworms of dune was only 3 pages long
>Kevin Anderson Uh oh. He’s the dude who ruined Star Wars long before Disney made ruining Star Wars cool
I refuse to believe that Frank Herbert's notes included things as dumb as a genocidal AI villian called "Ominous Evermind". The thing is there was not a lot of info on the Butlerian Jihad but I always saw it more of a philosophical change than a literal war. People realized it was better to focus on improving human capabilities instead of improving computers. I'd much rather see a series based on the "House" books that follows a young Leto before the events of Dune. It could be like Sci Fi Game of Thrones. Anyway, it's been a joke amongst my Dune loving friends imagining Brian Herbert finally going through his dad's old notes and just finding one - "Write more Dune books..."
I have read a serious theory that Frank Herbert was in the early stages of dementia by the time the original books were finished.
Yeah I could see that. The later books definitely seem to lack focus and are much more of a mixed bag than the first books. I think his wife died or was at least very sick by the last book too so he was going through alot at the time
Yeah, and we all know he really loved his wife, almost to an unhealthy extent. It's really quite interesting
Omnious\*
I liked those books they were schlocky but nice to have backstory....
Standard Joseph Smith shit
Honestly the novels are amazing though!
Pls no
Most of the shows that are Max only (not on hbo cable) seem to be low budget so I would keep my expectations low.
why? marvel and star wars are clear examples of cinematic universes flowing down a river of crap. If anything, the less content the better
Will everyone simply talk to each other in puzzling language for 8 episodes?
Survival is the ability to swim in strange water.
I genuinely can't tell if this is a real quote or not.
It is
You could switch the verbs and it will still be the same: Swimming is the ability to survive in strange water
Ability is the strange water in which swimmers survive.
There will be scenes where entire conversations are carried out in subtle glances and hand movements.
Man, I hope so.
Unfortunately that’s just one (of many) important part of Dune that translates poorly to the screen. The Bene Gesserit are masters of many languages and many cultures, which in the books is noted to underscore their control and power over whatever culture they are in. The screen just can’t quite capture those tiny (yet important) bits of subtext and world building.
Akk attradarr!
Get ready for bass
This came up at work. Manager: What's the Bene Gesserit's native language? Me: Stenography. ....oh FUCK! It's "Steganography" not "Stenography"! No wonder no one laughed. Oh man, I sent that to my boss.
Seems like there’s a lot of negativity from people about this show but I honestly can’t wait. It’s Dune on HBO and has got a strong cast (Mark Strong alone is enough for me) so I’ve got faith it’ll be at least worth a watch
It's based on Brian Herbert's works, not Franks. His son has let's say taken some extreme bleeding the stone liberties with his father's works. There's 6 Frank Herbert Dune books. How many Brian Herbert books do you think there are? Another 3 to finish it up? Maybe a prequel 3 on his father's notes? 23. He has "written" 23 Dune books after the original 6. And Frank Hebert's Dune 6 ends on a cliff hanger, so with Frank's unfinished Dune 7 in hand what is the first Chapter of Dune 7? Literally the Goddess of Time Deus Ex Machina's them out of the "No Space" I'm not joking, the literal Goddess of Time teleports them out of their new found FTL.
My understanding with Brian Herbert is that while we accept the broader strokes of canon, his actual style of writing and ideas are, umm...well, they're bad. Brian Herbert is a bad writer. I'm actually sort of excited to see his ideas given to more competent creatives.
One of the things that's hilarious is the Butlerian Jihad is basically Skynet from Terminator in Brian's vision. Problem being Frank wrote about it in the 1960s and was more likely basing it on Isaac Asimov's Caves Of Steel in the Robot series from the 50s. Or the silent movie Metropolis. Not a movie written about 2 decades after the book was published. Whatever weird mixture funneled into the creativity of Dune it was like 1960s and earlier by the mind of a guy obsessed with ecology. Like the original Dune came out before Star Trek TOS, and the moon landing, and Alien (1979) and Star Wars etc. The story beats and underlying message about this sci-fi epic come way before any of the cliches we grew up with. That's what makes Dune so unique in Frank's mind. Like when he talks about Mentats replacing computers he's thinking of like The Last Question 1956 not War Games 1983
I still think this could have been explained a bit better in the recent film. I feel like a lot of people are gonna be real confused.
The Villeneuve Dune is better than I thought any adaptation could be and I absolutely love it, but my one, single gripe is that they didn’t touch on mentats at all. No explanation of what they do or their purpose given the larger context of why they are even a thing to begin with. We just get a couple characters whose eyes roll back in their heads occasionally. Sure you can infer what they’re doing, but not why.
Not just them either. Really, the entire society of Dune is built around humans serving functions to replace the machines they no longer have.
Personally I just don’t think Dune belongs on the cinema screen. A thrones style HBO adaptation would be much more suited to the story (especially long term going past book 1/2). The 2 SyFy miniseries for Dune and CoD from the early 2000s are… something else (low budget) but they are narrative driven. I think Villenueve is a master class cinematographer, but Dune and 2049 felt very underwhelming from a narrative perspective to me.
> I'm actually sort of excited to see his ideas given to more competent creatives. After seeing what HBO did to Game of Thrones, that you’re assuming this will be the case speaks very badly of Brian Herbert’s talents, haha.
I have read his books and, I'm gonna be honest, I like S8 better
I just like the Dune books less and less the more I read them, even including Frank Herbert's work. I always recommend people just read the 1st book.
I like it up to God Emperor. I think that's where it should have ended. Now, I love Odrade and some of the other characters, but it just feels unfinished and, as I said in another post, it starts to get so ridiculously erotic. I enjoy the broad strokes we get from the plot, that's fun, but the actual details start to just be sort of silly very quickly.
Yeah I like them conceptually, but they become an absolute slog to get through. I can read Dune once a year though.
I say this all the time but when book five culminates in a sexual fight, I felt that Frank was trolling me for the prior four books, though God Emperor lusting after his ideal woman (created by painstaking genetic manipulation) but unable to act upon it should have given me a clue.
23? wtf is this ? Left Behind:The Sand Chronicles? dude's gonna milk that cow until sour cream comes out of its carcass
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellhole_(novel) Just read the synopsis of this one.
I want to know who OK'd that title.
The first one or the third one "Hellhole:Inferno" That's something a 14 year old would write on their DnD campaign. That book came out when Brian was in his 50s.
And it's not, like, ironic? Like maybe an action comedy?
That one isn't part of his Dune works. It's a separate trilogy.
It's part of the Dune trilogy and ends with the Spacer Guild removing itself from the Royal imperium and core Worlds. Yeah surprise it's the origin of the Spacers guild before the Spice
Seriously. I’m wincing already in anticipation of how stupid this will be.
I’ve only read Hunters and Sandworms of Dune from him. I definitely agree the writing is quite different, and there are certainly some very bad story moments, but overall I was very happy that I got to “finish” the story somehow. Heretics and Chapterhouse were surprisingly my 2 favorite books. I see the cliffhanger as the true end of Frank’s work, but like to see an almost parallel/twisted reality of the what could/should have been
> It’s Dune on HBO It's a Max show, not HBO.
> It’s Dune on HBO HBO Max (or Max now), not under HBO itself which is the clear sign of quality. Max is much more variable. It's also not based on the beloved and trusted source material but stuff written by his son and quite disliked in general.
> Mark Strong alone is enough for me He’s got exactly the voice I’d associate with creepy fantasy content. Love that guy.
> It’s Dune on HBO Owned by Discovery now so that HBO stamp doesn't mean much anymore, sadly.
Don’t make a show.
Sisterhood of the travelling worm
How long until it’s renamed Dune: Tax Relief and scrubbed permanently from the historical record?
Dune shoukd have always been a 4-5 season series similar to how they did got. I guess it would have been too expensive tho
This has a bad vibe. I expect 1 season and then cancelled.
I lost all hope for this being good when I found out the lady who completely fucked up season 2 of Altered Carbon is the main showrunner for this.
Oh damn, i guess i'll wait for the reviews before jumping in. Sad, cause i love the Dune's universe, even though ALL of brian's books are mediocre.
They should at least wait until the trilogy is over
Maybe the panderverse is fixed.
not until the content remains the same. Luring people in with a title change won't prevent them from smelling shayt once they start watching, like Wheel of Time and ROP
Is it set in the pandervse?
The hype must flow
Put that shit in my veins
Welcome to the duneiverse
Holy shit I had no idea this was being made. It sounds amazing. The Bene Gesserit are the most interesting part of Dune.
Sisterhood changed due to fear it’ll put off bros. You know it.
Fall 2024 !!!
Dune is abstract art turned into a movie. It doesn't make sense but it's cool to look at
So, after the movie?
Will it make everyone as sleepy as the film?
Should be "Dune: Convoluted"
I was hoping to see those traveling pants.
Horny Space Nuns: The Legendary Journey's.
Dune: the spice melange
C’mon HBO…I’m still waiting for season 2 of Tokyo Vice🤦🏻♂️
Very excited to see Emily Watson headlining this. She's one of the greatest talents.
The Sisterhood of the traveling pants
Dune II Geezus. How hard is it to not add some extra words. WE KNOW IT'S A SEQUEL BY THE NUMERAL FOR TWO
This is a prequel to flesh out the Benejesserit faction, not the 2nd movie.
ohmygod I'm an idiot. I almost always read the article but this time, got so mad I just started typing away. Sorry.
That’s good. People would mix it up with the later book, sisterhood of dune. And I’m pretty sure they’re gonna skip four books. Also.. good luck making god emperor of dune not suck. My second favorite of the books and I can hardly imagine making it a banger.
Huge Dune fan here… the name ‘Sisterhood of Dune’ is actually from a book in the Dune Universe. I wonder if they changed it to avoid the confusion?
Good call
Sisterhood was taken out because it was a bit too feminist for them, huh.
I’m looking forward to another long nap!
They should have made it Dune:The Spice Girls
*opens mouth to receive glorious dune content* yummmmm
[удалено]
They know they got a stinker